Episode #129: The Object Of My Affection Is In My Reflection, Chapter 1: Entitlement, Rage & Contempt: The Plight Of Narcissists & Their Victims, With Elaine Perliss, Certified Hypnotherapist & Board Certified Instructor
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You're listening to the sex drugs and Jesus podcast, where we discuss whatever the fuck we want to! And yes, we can put sex and drugs and Jesus all in the same bed and still be all right at the end of the day. My name is De'Vannon and I'll be interviewing guests from every corner of this world as we dig into topics that are too risqué for the morning show, as we strive to help you understand what's really going on in your life.
There is nothing off the table and we've got a lot to talk about. So let's dive right into this episode.
De'Vannon: Let's go. Hello? Hello, hello. Are you delicious? Delicious, juicy truffles out there. My name is Devan and I'd like to welcome you back to the Sex Drugs in Jesus podcast, the Jesus Christ of Nazareth podcast. And I believe in me, some God, Jesus, and the Holy Ghost not to knock your universe or whatever it is that you believe in.
De'Vannon: That's what I stand for, because you gotta stand for something or your fault for any fucking thing. As the saying goes, I have my hypnotherapist. Here with me [00:01:00] today. You all know this face. You know this voice. She's been a hypnotherapist for well over 20 fucking years. She was one of my instructors at the Hypnosis Motivation Institute outta Tarzana, a K a Los Angeles, California.
De'Vannon: Her website is elaine perilous.com. She's on Facebook, LinkedIn, YouTube, Twitter. Elaine, how are you?
Elaine: Oh my gosh. I'm wonderful. Thank you so much for having me on your show today. I
De'Vannon: love this. Absolutely. And y'all, today we are continuing our talk into this book right here. The Object of My Affection is in my reflection by Raquel Lerner.
De'Vannon: This is the anti narcissist book as far as I'm fucking concerned because there's nothing in here, but light enlightenment and acknowledgement. And one of the thing that helped me heal the most from dealing with the narcissist that was once a part of my life, who is no more was knowledge. About this book from Elaine.
De'Vannon: And so that's why we're going through it. [00:02:00] I love
Elaine: it. I love it. You are right. Knowledge is so powerful. You know, cuz I, and I'm just gonna jump right in a narcissist. They don't want you to know, they don't want you to have any kind of power or control, you know? So, yeah.
De'Vannon: Period. Period. The the chapter one is what we're gonna cover today.
De'Vannon: The title of it is Entitlement, rage and Contempt, the Plight of Narcissists and Their Victims. Before we get into that, I'm gonna read Psalm 62 from the King James version of the Bible. Why Psalm 62? You might ask because for whatever reason, for whatever reason, this particular psalm gave me a lot of mental peace when I left.
De'Vannon: The narcissist, and I was bracking and reeling in my brain. This psalm calmed me. It has a lot. It speaks about karma. It speaks about leaning on God and making them your priority and not the narcissist. The narcissist wants to be God in your life, [00:03:00] okay? Only they're not qualified to set on the throne.
De'Vannon: Truly my soul waited upon God from him cometh my salvation. He only is my rock and my salvation. He is my defense. I shall not be greatly moved. How long will you imagine mischief against a man? You shall be s slain. All of you as a bowing wall shall you be and as a tottering fence, they only consult to cast him down from his excellency.
De'Vannon: They delight and lies. They blessed with their mouth, but they curse inwardly, my soul, weight out only upon God for my expectation is from him. He only is my rock and my salvation. He is my defense. I shall not be moved in. God is my salvation and my glory. The rock of my strength and my refuge is in God.
De'Vannon: Trusted him at all times. You people pour out your heart before him. God is a [00:04:00]refuge for us. Surely men of low degree are vanity and men of high degree are a lie to be laid in the balance. They're all together lighter than vanity. Trust not in a oppression and become not vain and robbery. If riches increased that not your heart upon them, and God had spoken once and twice, have I heard this?
De'Vannon: That power belongs onto to God. Also unto the, oh Lord belong at Mercy, but without render us to every man according to his work. What do you think about that?
Elaine: Wow. Holy cow. I guess they had narcissists back then.
De'Vannon: Hell yeah, they did. Fuck. Yeah, they did. Holy cow.
Elaine: You know, whenever you have a society, you've got people that are trying to, you know, outgun each other, outpower each other, find ways to manipulate themselves so that they're the king of the hill or the queen of the hill. And yeah, I, it, I think that this [00:05:00] type of a personality is as old as time itself.
Elaine: You know, I think that it's, whew. Wow. That was a very poignant passage to read to get this started. Yeah,
De'Vannon: exactly. Y'all go back through it when you have time and see if you can see what speaks to you. Men of low degree, those are your covert narcissists. Men of high degree, those are your overt narcissists.
De'Vannon: But the Lord said all of them are lighter than vanity, so
Elaine: yes, yes, yes. Vanity could be another word is another word would be ego. You know? Mm-hmm. And it's interesting because when you think about a narcissist, they are, they have sky high egos, you know, and they can't imagine a vulnerability. So, They're fun, they're friendly, they're outgoing, whatever it is, but they're not going to let you know that there's any kind of a crack in their veneer, whatever [00:06:00] that is.
Elaine: And they are pretty much all vanity. They are pretty much all ego. There's not a lot of there there, you know, behind the walls that they build to help to protect themselves. You
De'Vannon: because it's so damn true, Elaine, like the, the insanity of those bullshit ass people, as as I have come to understand it more, is so far out of the realm of anything that remotely resembles reality, that it becomes laughable.
De'Vannon: There's no other emotion. Do not shock, not awe, it's just you're the only way to
Elaine: laugh. Mm-hmm. That's all you can do. You're right. You're right. When you see it for what it is, it is. I mean it on one ho, one hand, it's kind of a little bit sad and you've got some empathy sympathy for them. But on the other hand, when you watch them doing their manipulation things, you [00:07:00] know, you see them over in a corner trying to light a fire or whatever.
Elaine: It. It? Mm-hmm. It doesn't work. But, you know, it's, it is so interesting that you said that, you know, there's no reality. The only reality is their reality. There is no room for any other reality. I. Because, you know, and it's funny because it's, it's a, it's a very strong defense mechanism that they have because if they had, can create this story, this reality, they will do anything and everything to protect it because there's nothing underneath.
Elaine: And if they accept somebody else's point of view or they accept that they are fallible, then their whole world crumbles. It's almost like a horse of cards. You
De'Vannon: know? Let, let me say a little prayer for us right now, just real quick cause Ooh, you know, cause we got, I'm gonna have a lot of enemies who don't want this information coming out.
De'Vannon: Well, guess what? Bitches is coming out [00:08:00] anyway. A father, the name of Jesus protect, Elaine and I and everybody working behind the scenes on this production, keep us shielded and safe from everybody with evil wishes, any kind of black magic, dark magic, any kind of evil, black hearted nonsense being worked against you, because ultimately this podcast and this conversation is to shed light.
De'Vannon: Anybody who doesn't want this conversation to proceed is of the devil, rebuke them and set them down in their place. In Jesus name.
Elaine: Beautiful. Yeah. And you know, people who have higher levels of narcissistic traits, they could be, you know, there's like, if there's a hundred narcissistic traits and they have 60 of them or 70 of them, you know, and metaphorically it's because they needed it to protect themselves.
Elaine: It's because they wanted to. Appear bigger than they are, [00:09:00] bigger than they feel about themselves. There's usually a ton of shame behind someone who has a narcissistic tendencies, has narcissistic tendencies going all the way up to narcissistic personality disorder, which, you know, that's something that a mental health, a licensed mental health professional can, can diagnose and, and, and address and work with, but, This is not coming from a narcissist.
Elaine: Traits are not coming from a position of strength, and they don't want you to know that. But it is coming from a position of fear, of feeling less than, you know, they don't feel like they're as good as other people, but. But they want to present. They'll be happy, they'll be, you know, easy go. Not even, not really easygoing, but they can be the life of the party.
Elaine: But it's, you know, you've heard the, the term, the tears of a [00:10:00] clown and. I actually have a I, I mean I, I think I mentioned this before. I was raised by a narcissist and I escaped, but I came after a lot of work and a lot of personal, I mean, that's one of the reasons why I specialize in this area after a lot of soul searching and learning and coming to terms with it.
Elaine: I bless my mother. She was such a great teacher. You know, she taught me what to do and what not to do. More importantly, what not to do. And I understood, you know, through visioning and through therapy and through PA prayers and all of the different things imagery and all of those things, I, I recognized and realized that she was, she was in so much pain, you know?
Elaine: And you'd never know it. You'd never see it. Because there was this veneer around her, and when we are at the [00:11:00] negative effect, when we become victimized by someone who's a narcissist, sometimes it takes years. It can take years to figure it out because you are so busy being. Overwhelmed by and in, impressed by and drawn to, you know, these people that whatever.
Elaine: What happens is you don't even realize that, you know, they're putting it out there, but they're pulling it back and they're holding onto you and they're protecting you. And it's little ways, you know, they, they will make you feel bad. They will try to make you feel guilty. They will tell you that you're wrong.
Elaine: I mean, there's a hundred different ways and we've got a few in this book that I'd like to talk about, but. When you find out, first of all, you're hurt. First of all, you feel betrayed. You know, you feel that you haven't had, you know, you feel like you've been taken advantage of. You feel almost like dirty, you know, because somebody has gotten under your skin.
Elaine: And then you go through, you know, there's the stages of [00:12:00] loss you go through and whatever. You detach from someone who's toxic personality. And today, you know, we're talking about narcissistic personalities. You feel the loss, you know, there's, there's guilt, there's anger, there's resentment. You wanna go, you know, go over and slash their tires cancel.
Elaine: Cancel, you know, but you wanna, you just want to. You don't wanna feel like the victim. You wanna have your personality back. And once you go through these stages and the cycle of grief or the stages of loss, whatever you call it, once you go through that, what happens is you learn something from every dingle single step.
Elaine: I am blown away that she was able to exist on the planet for as long as she did with as many painful, painful things that she had. And so I'm grateful for her. And that's place when, when we work with, and when we connect with people who are narcissists, when we [00:13:00] get 'em out of, out from under our skin, we were just like, whatever, you know, we just wanna like, you know, go sage the house or something, you know?
Elaine: And after we gain the learnings and after we gain the insights, they're not this big bag monster. They're a very sorry, sad person that we no longer are under the control of, and that is so cool. So that's kind of my soapbox speech about that.
De'Vannon: Hey, there is absolutely nothing wrong with getting soapy boxy with it.
De'Vannon: I'm gonna and I agree with every fucking thing you said. I'm just gonna read this first paragraph. There was something I was gonna say that was quite like, I'm just, I'm gonna, I'm just gonna read this. I'm just gonna read this. So, so this is chapter one says, so when you're, when you're in relationship with a narcissist, you relinquish your identity and your soul to them.
De'Vannon: Their seduction is similar to a razor sharp stiletto being [00:14:00] waved in your face. It's so mesmerizing you won't know you're bleeding to death until it's too late. But it's not your blood that a narcissist wants. It's your emotional energy and your individuality. I've heard the term soul rapist, energy vampire.
De'Vannon: Yeah. Can you talk to us about that emotional energy and why they want your individuality?
Elaine: That this, this paragraph pretty much says it all. It is an incredible paragraph. And then of course, this book goes on to expand and extra, you know, and, and, and build on this thing. A narcissist typically doesn't have a true sense of self.
Elaine: And that seems weird because they've got this ginna ginormous eagle, but they're not. I always liken it to the Wizard of Oz. If you've ever seen The Wizard of Oz, there's that big Oz on the screen and you know there's this [00:15:00] ginormous force that's scary and overpowering and oh my gosh, he's so powerful.
Elaine: But then it's this little man behind the screen. You know, behind the curtain. And that's basically what it is. It's a, it's a little person with a great big ego, a great big whatever it is that they, that they have their, and their personality is so big. And so what happens is they find other people, you know, victims.
Elaine: They find people that are susceptible to their Their needs. They don't have the ability to take a response, take responsibility. They d the, you know, when, when the going gets tough, they get going, you know, they will spend their days talking the talk, but not walking the walk. And so they look for people that are susceptible or, [00:16:00] you know, suggestible to their.
Elaine: Magnetic, you know, like all that sticky paper that they brought on them. And so what ends up happening is they will, little by little, slowly but surely take away the part that the un unknowing person is, they take away the part that's their individuality. Cuz little by little, a narcissist will convince that person that that person isn't good enough.
Elaine: That person isn't strong enough, that person isn't X, whatever it is enough. And so what ends up happening is it like an energy, energy vampire. They want your emotional energy because they don't have it. They want your individuality because they can't find their own. And I know that sounds really weird, but they really don't have a sense of self.
Elaine: And so they will find someone and they will use every tool in the book [00:17:00] to find a way to control the person. And it happens very slowly. It happens step by step, day by day. You know, you start doubting yourself, oh, well maybe it was me. Oh, well maybe I did misread that situation. Oh, well, maybe he's right, or she's right, whatever it is, you know.
Elaine: But the truth is, and the fact of the matter is they don't care about you. They only care about powering and overpowering you. You are a means to an end. And I know that sounds really cold, but they don't have any love for themselves. How in the world can they have love for somebody else? You know, and they will, they're all about themselves.
Elaine: Me, me, me and another helping of me. They don't deal with someone else. They don't have the ability to show remorse or regret because if they did, it goes back to if I say I've done something wrong in [00:18:00] my mind, if I'm a narcissist, I am wrong. It's not that I can make a mistake and make amends cuz that doesn't exist in their vocabulary.
Elaine: They're very shallow. They don't have that depth and that richness of emotions. So they want yours, I want what you have, you know, that whole thing. And they really can't relate to others because they're not relating to themselves. Everything is about them. You know, there's no give and take in that relationship, and they have this overwhelming need for.
Elaine: Approval for affection for adulation. You know, they want, because they don't have it in themselves. They can't, they can't say, oh look, I'm great. I mean, they say it, but it, it's, it's very shallow, you know, it's not meaningful cuz they don't really believe it in inside. So they constantly need people to feed that ego, feed that machine.
Elaine: And so when you say that a [00:19:00] narcissist wants your emotional energy and your individuality, absolutely. They want it for themselves. You know, they don't know how to find it within themselves, so they wanna take it from you. The, it it, does that make sense?
De'Vannon: Yeah, it does. Yeah, it does. Those fucking there's a song by this band called Sullivan King called someone else.
De'Vannon: It's like a rock song. And I think, I think this guy wrote this about a narcissist. I guess it was a guy who wrote it. My favorite, I guess you can say favorite or I guess most impactful line from that. Well, there's two of 'em. One line says the words that leave your lips never mean how they sound. And then the other one, he says, the games that you play are just sickening.
De'Vannon: Like you could have just, and he says like, you, you could have just set me free. You didn't have to do this. Right. Yeah. I'm like, I think he's talking about a narcissist. He was interrupting. I'm
Elaine: sure he was. I am sure he was. You know, [00:20:00] I'm realizing the horrible things you did to me. Ats sickening. It
De'Vannon: is sickening.
De'Vannon: You know, it's sickening. Make a big million off of it. Shit. But yeah,
Elaine: you know, I guess I wanna, I wanna mention in stress that, If you are a kind person, a compassionate person, even a helping, caring, sharing person, someone who is I has a good soul and wants to do well by others, you're often their prey because they get that you're gonna give someone the benefit of the doubt.
Elaine: And one of the things that I hear in my practice all the time, how could I have fallen for this? And the fact of the matter is you were targeted, not you personally, but the person was targeted because they were susceptible to the well, what are now lies. The words that leave your lips are not true and they're [00:21:00] susceptible to it.
Elaine: And so people come in and they feel so guilty and they feel such like, how could I be so dumb or so stupid? Cancel. Cancel. You know? And, and what ends up happening is I. Once they understand what it is, and they can pull them, they can pull themselves out of a, the quicksand or the tar pit, that is their energy.
Elaine: They see it more clearly. They see it as, okay, I was victimized. You know, somebody, somebody victimized me. And so there's no, there's no shame in that. There's only.
Elaine: I'm sorry. Go ahead. Okay. There's no shame in being taken advantage of someone who is out to take advantage of you. There's no shame in that. You know, the good thing is, is you don't have those tools to recognize it because you aren't one. There's only honor [00:22:00] and courage to take the next step once you recognize that you don't feel right about yourself.
Elaine: You know, so I, I want your listeners and your viewers to know that you have probably been taken advantage of by a narcissist at some point in your life. And, you know, you kind of felt like, oh my gosh, I was used, I was taken advantage of, you know, someone who has narcissistic tendencies and there's, there's no shame in that.
De'Vannon: You know, like like Madonna said in the song, power of Goodbye, a pain is a warning that something's wrong, and so it's, your relationship should be peace. Happiness, joy, there shouldn't be arguing. I don't give a damn what anyone says. Arguing does not have to be a necessary part of a relationship, right?
De'Vannon: Disagreements are one thing, yes. Doubting and yelling and all of that. Toxicity is bullshit and it is not necessary. Oh, I fired. I forgot to tell you this [00:23:00] before we got on online. Apart from dismissing the wicked one at the beginning of the year I also, I've also, in the last, since I last talked to you, probably fired five.
De'Vannon: Friends who are now exes people have no sexual history at all. Just like friends because, because they either said something adverse to me, something disrespectful, and now I view everything as, as, as energy, which is what it is that anything somebody's choosing to say or do is a choice, right? Something's disrespectful is in their toolbox.
De'Vannon: Mm-hmm. You know, forceful words and disrespectful words, threats of violence, anything at all. Bitch bye Fired instantly, no questions asked. There's billions of people in this world. I am no longer negotiating with any sort of disrespect on any damn level.
Elaine: That is fantastic. That's fantastic. You know some, once someone has.
Elaine: Extracted themself or extricated themselves from a toxic situation, [00:24:00] what usually happens is they clean house. And that's so cool because you don't realize or recognize, right, right. You don't recognize that you have been, you know, there have been toxic people in your life. And that's, you know, that's often, you know, and I know that you have experienced this, you know, all of a sudden, wait, I'm, I'm out here all by myself.
Elaine: All these people who I thought were my friends were actually frenemies. You know?
De'Vannon: So, yeah. No more. But yeah, I didn't realize that that was a, a normal thing. But yes, bitch, I've been cleaning house. Take inventory and the only people who have been allowed to remain are people who I've never had an argument with.
De'Vannon: And there's people I've known for years and years, we've never had an argument. People were not attached to anybody who are who, who I view as toxic, or anybody, you know, who I feel like may have had something to do with a grooming of somebody who's toxic and let that person go on check. So, I don't give a damn if they agree [00:25:00] with it or not.
De'Vannon: I'm firing motherfuckers left and right and I don't give a damn.
Elaine: Right. And you know, you bring up a really good point if you have to argue and yell and have these, you know, these all out whatevers, you also wanna look at your own self. You know, what is it that's going on with me that compels me to fight with someone, you know, what am I angry about myself?
Elaine: And so, yes, you're right. Healthy relationships. Yes, you can have disagreements, but there's respect there, right?
De'Vannon: There's choice. Yes. So an argument used to make me feel terrible and just cruddy when it was over the wicked one. Mm-hmm. It used to make him feel like alive. It like would enlive with him because he was siphoning energy.
De'Vannon: Out of me through the arguing.
Elaine: Exactly, exactly. He was feeding that demon. It was like, you know, the invasion of the body snatchers [00:26:00] feed me. And so when he got, when he got you to admit that you were wrong or he got you to, you know, whatever, he was able to. Rile you up and put you in a defensive position.
Elaine: He was winning cuz he was pulling that energy was siphoning, like you said. Siphoning that energy out of you.
De'Vannon: Well it's all cut off from his ass now. Who? Heaven Never have a fucking drop again. That's right. You'll get it from whoever the fuck
Elaine: no next victim.
De'Vannon: Right. This, this paragraph here I wanted to read and then this will be the last paragraph that I'm gonna read cuz there's bullet points you wanted to talk about.
De'Vannon: So this says narcissists are actors playing a part? They are expert liars. And even worse, they believe their own lies. That's right. Prac practiced. Amen on a on amen. On a Sunday morning, practiced in dishonesty. Now I'm gonna come back to that [00:27:00] part. But practiced in dishonesty. They can't tell the difference between their own version of the truth and a falsehood.
De'Vannon: Narcissists lie to themselves first and then systematically and often deliberately torture others with their lies. That's fucked up. They, they may take the past and rearrange it to make themselves look good. They rarely, if ever, admit fault and they never say they're sorry, ever.
Elaine: Right. That's the thing.
Elaine: They believe what they say is true and they are. You can, and and then you put that together. What? They can never be wrong. Well, you've got a powder keg. You know, there's, you know, the sky is green. By the way. The sky is green. I'm convinced the sky is green, and I'm gonna keep telling you that the sky is green until you admit it.
De'Vannon: What if you don't admit it? Then they throw a tantrum. Exactly. Exactly like literally [00:28:00] these grown male narcissists and not just the wicked one whom I vanished. Mm-hmm. But they would, they physically throw their arms up and down or stick them down by their side and then do the whole stumping, foot pout, you know, kinda do shit like this.
De'Vannon: I used to watch these males who used to be in my life do this, and it wasn't until I researched this, that this shit clicked. I'm like, what in the actual fuck.
Elaine: Exactly. Now you look at it and you say, oh, that was a temper tantrum. Oh, that was somebody acting like a two year old. That's about their, that's about their level of development, you know emotionally and, you know, the sages of development, they're somewhere between two and five, so,
De'Vannon: Sounds about right.
De'Vannon: It is just so sad [00:29:00] that they got working dicks, but dysfunctional emotions. Exactly. That's right. We need more from y'all than a good lay, if you please that. That is not the definition of a man. Y'all need to come, come with something more than a hard dick because those are everywhere. That's not, that adds no value.
De'Vannon: You're like literally nothing. And that's all you have. That's right.
Elaine: Wow. So we're just about out of time.
De'Vannon: Yeah. So what the bullet point did you wanted to touch on? Well, I
Elaine: did, I just stuck them in there. Ok. I was talking about them. I went through the, you know, in this book they have a little bullet point list that I love that talks about some of the characteristics.
Elaine: You know, indifference to the need or concerns of others. Strongly self-focused, self-absorbed. They don't have remorse. They're emotionally shallow. They cannot relate to others in a meaningful way because there's no meaning in [00:30:00] here. You know, if if it doesn't fit their model, then it doesn't exist. They have overpowering needs for admiration and attention.
Elaine: They are not capable of giving it to themselves in a meaningful way where they actually believe it and own it. They see themselves as unique and special. That is a facade. They are grandiose and arrogant. Like you were talking about, the wicked one throws a tantrum. You know, you throw a tantrum when you don't get your way, you're literally doing what a, a two year old would do.
Elaine: They can be contemptuous and haughty and they believe that they can only be, be understood by other special or high status people of, or institutions. Basically, that's code for people that that agree with them. And they have extreme jealousy of others and belief others that are jealous of them. And so, and it's really [00:31:00] interesting because, I mean, you'll look.
Elaine: Unfortunately, the, the are public figures, there are a lot of them that are very much a demonstration. You know, you could look in the dictionary and see some of their faces, you know, this is a narcissist, this is a malignant narcissist, or whatever. And they are almost a caricature of what you see on, you know, in the definitions.
Elaine: So it's amazing. It's just amazing. So,
De'Vannon: right. So so then thank you for that breakdown. So then the last thing I'll say, like, like I was referencing it, it said practice and dishonesty. Those of you who are narcissist and you know who you are, are just, you know, you've. As the saying goes in spiritual circles, energy goes where attention flows, and then vice versa, however you wanna say it.
De'Vannon: You've grown in the ways of lies, manipulation, deception, because that is what you wanted to practice. Had you practiced spirituality, getting close to God, honesty, then you would've grown in that. [00:32:00] But you let your fear and your insecurities carell you down a very dark path that is only gonna lead you to destruction.
De'Vannon: Well said, you can change if you want to. That means you're gonna have to stop doing what you've been doing, detach from people and stop sucking energy off in other, which means you're gonna have to sit by yourself for a significant length of time to recondition your mind. You're gonna have to do new education.
De'Vannon: That means you're going to have to stop your creature comforts and delay your pleasure for a while. And if you can't do that, then you will fall. So, And you will be greatly destroyed.
Elaine: Those are wise words. I, I completely agree with you. And it's right. You're right. It's going to take
De'Vannon: work, you know, but they can't.
De'Vannon: But you can. But they cannot work to get free of it if they're still doing it. So that means like, that means like your sex addicts who like narcissism and sex addiction seems to [00:33:00] go like hand in hand cuz most narcissists cheat. Not just the one that I was with, but like that across the board cuz their behavior is predictable, right?
De'Vannon: You keep sleeping with people and setting up these false relationships. Cuz some of them stop being a ho, but then they go find like a fake boyfriend or girlfriend. I'm like, this's not real, cuz you're not healed from what you've done. Right. So you, they have to stop all of that. No relationships, no sex, stop, focus on healthy relationships and then you can get healed.
De'Vannon: If you won't stop that, you just, you just playing with people and you gonna have the more bad karma. That's right.
Elaine: Wow. I'm impressed. You're right. You are very well well read in this subject and you have definitely done a lot of work and I'm very impressed. So, and it's not easy, right? You'll be the first to say.
Elaine: I'll be the first to say. It's not easy. You got it. You got, I mean, you can't keep drinking and say, I'm gonna stop drinking. You just, it doesn't work that way. You can't eat [00:34:00] chocolate and say, I'm gonna stop eating chocolate. It doesn't work that way.
De'Vannon: It does not work that way.
Elaine: You gotta have a clean break.
Elaine: So I am so grateful that you took the time with me today, or I got to take the time with you today, and I'm, I'm grateful for this opportunity. So thank you so much.
De'Vannon: Thank you very much. Elaine. Again, y'all her, her name is Elaine perilous elaine perilous.com. All her information will go in the show notes, as it always does, and we will see you for chapter two.
De'Vannon: All right,
Elaine: thank you. Yeah.
De'Vannon: Thank you all so much for taking time to listen to the sex, drugs, and Jesus podcast. It really means everything to me. Look, if you love the show, you can find more information and resources at sex, drugs, and Jesus. com, or wherever you listen to your podcast. Feel free to reach out to me directly at Devannon at sexdrugsandjesus.
De'Vannon: com and on Twitter and Facebook as well. My name is Devannon and it's been wonderful [00:35:00] being your host today. And just remember that everything is going to be all right.
[00:36:00]