Episode #134: How Conservatism Contradicts Christianity, The Jerry Falwell Jr. Scandal & Apocalyptical Religious Trauma, With Matthew Garnier, Author Of, Swept Up: Lessons From the End Times

INTRODUCTION: 

Matthew recently published a comedic memoir about religious upbringing, "Swept Up: Lessons From the End Times" with tales (and lessons) from church, home-schooling, and a few strange years at a major evangelical university. Matthew has substantial podcasting experience and prefer a good, witty dialogue to shameless plugs. Matthew also enjoys low-budget filmmaking, and has created several videos that will likely be of interest to readers of his book.

INCLUDED IN THIS EPISODE (But not limited to):

·      A Sarcastic Take On The Apocalypse 

·      Fear-mongering Related To The End Times

·      Religious Trauma 

·      Learning To Sit Still

·      The Corruption Of The Word “Christian”

·      Conservatism vs. Christianity 

·      The Jerry Falwell Jr. Scandal

·      Kanye West’s Connection To Churches

·      DAD JOKES!!!

CONNECT WITH MATTHEW GARNIER:

 Book: https://shorturl.at/hCE34

TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@urwelcomematt

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/MattGarnier

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/mattgarnier

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mattgarnier.0/

CONNECT WITH DE’VANNON:

Website: https://www.SexDrugsAndJesus.com

Website: https://www.DownUnderApparel.com   

Spiritual Services: https://www.sexdrugsandjesus.com/magical-lessons/

Donate Via PayPal: https://shorturl.at/gq068

CashApp: $DeVannonSeraphino

Venmo: @DeVannonSeraphino 

Patreon: https://patreon.com/SDJPodcast

TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@sexdrugsandjesus

YouTube: https://bit.ly/3daTqCM

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SexDrugsAndJesus/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/sexdrugsandjesuspodcast/

Twitter: https://twitter.com/TabooTopix

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/devannon

Pinterest: https://www.pinterest.es/SexDrugsAndJesus/_saved/

Email: DeVannon@SDJPodcast.com

Transcript

Episode #134: How Conservatism Contradicts Christianity, The Jerry Falwell Jr. Scandal & Apocalyptical Religious Trauma, With Matthew Garnier, Author Of, Swept Up: Lessons From the End Times

Matthew Garnier

[00:00:00]

You're listening to the sex drugs and Jesus podcast, where we discuss whatever the fuck we want to! And yes, we can put sex and drugs and Jesus all in the same bed and still be all right at the end of the day. My name is De'Vannon and I'll be interviewing guests from every corner of this world as we dig into topics that are too risqué for the morning show, as we strive to help you understand what's really going on in your life.

There is nothing off the table and we've got a lot to talk about. So let's dive right into this episode. 

De'Vannon Seráphino: Hello, everyone, and welcome back to the Sex, Drugs, and Jesus. Podcast. How the fuck are you doing world out there? I know you're doing great and you're just so titillating and tasty and delicious. I have with me the lovely, beautiful, handsome, talented, and oh so sexy and intelligent, uh, Matthew Garnier. How are you, my dear?

Matthew Garnier: I'm doing [00:01:00] great, man. Thank you for that begrudging introduction, as Christopher Hitchens would say. No, I'm psyched to be here. Thank you. 

De'Vannon Seráphino: Terse and begrudging is a lot of things, but it ain't boring. 

Matthew Garnier: It's sarcastic. And it's a vestige of the pre internet era when you probably didn't realize his joke was going to play on, you know, every lecture he gave.

Matthew Garnier: We're going to catch on. This is your line, man, but I like it. 

De'Vannon Seráphino: Like, I'm here for it, y'all. He is the author of a titillating and, like you said, sarcastic, dry humor, religious book called Swept Up Lessons from the End Times. It is not what you think. I'm gonna let Matthew tell you what it is. Yeah, there's a 

Matthew Garnier: little sarcasm right off the bat.

Matthew Garnier: Yeah, so, I, I've always been, you know, somebody who likes to create. different things, who likes to write, make video, do all that kind of stuff. But I decided about a year ago, I was going to really dedicate my time to writing a book [00:02:00] that I would be, you know, proud to stand by and able to talk about.

Matthew Garnier: And they would get a lot of thoughts out there that I think took a while to fully develop, you know, and get ready for the page. But, it's, it's been, if nothing else. An interesting platform for conversation. So here we are. 

De'Vannon Seráphino: Who do you think, like you wrote the book for? Like what's your, what sort of, I mean, when it comes to topics of religion, it's really like everyone knows we all have spirits and souls and afterlife.

De'Vannon Seráphino: But what do you, what do you hope people are going to gain or learn? What's the community here? Yeah, good 

Matthew Garnier: question. Cause like I was hoping mostly that it would resonate with people who have a, at least somewhat relatable background. And I know there's a lot of them especially from my generation who had a similar [00:03:00] experience with church always feeling like an apocalyptic setting, rather than something that would draw them into like a loving force, even if that community was loving.

Matthew Garnier: But there's, I explore themes through this book that would apply far beyond. The church setting because when I talk about religion, I mean that in a context that goes beyond denominations and, you know, worship and necessarily even beliefs about God. I think it permeates. Culture, it permeates the way that people construct their identity.

Matthew Garnier: I mean, that's kind of what it is to me. And, and I hope people are open minded enough that they could read this book without any common background and still derive something from it. So that's why I try to infuse it with humor too, because if I'm just talking about my experience, like it's this crazy [00:04:00] thing, which it's, it's not necessarily, you know, it's supposed to be.

Matthew Garnier: About bigger, dare I say universal themes. So, it's a bit of a generalized answer to say anybody could read it, but, I think it's connected with people who don't necessarily have a church background and I'm happy when that happens, because it means that they, they took something from the vulnerability of it or the humor of it or whatever it may be, I guess everybody latches onto something different with this.

De'Vannon Seráphino: Absolutely. There is nothing like having a salacious beast and whatever you have written that people can go in there with a little forks and just grub the fuck down. There you go. I'm going to read, a little short description of this book and it says, heard it into a cotton client flock on the church stage young Matt.

De'Vannon Seráphino: Right here. [00:05:00] Young Matt wasn't sure why sheep were the preferred analogy for his religion. It started to make sense only after he learned that a culling was imminent, fueling neurotic thoughts and behaviors as he readied himself for the coming apocalypse. Ugh, 

Matthew Garnier: that sounds like I just want to specify that that was neurotic, not erotic.

Matthew Garnier: In case anybody misheard that. Oh, come on. I was not turned on by the second coming of Christ, even though it sounds like a porn title. Yeah, that was, it was always kind of fascinating to me. And, and this is based on a real life experience, the sheep analogy, because You know, that's a, I guess a fitting analogy for certain aspects of the Christian religion, which I'll get more nuanced about that.

Matthew Garnier: I'm not just trying to bash on Christianity at all, but the idea of sheep, you know, in a pasture being guided by a shepherd is [00:06:00] taken as kind of a good thing, right? That we're meant to be a part of. But it was also analogized in the sense, literally on stage, like through a Christmas play, where we were these sheep arguing over who gets to be the sacrifice.

Matthew Garnier: In this old Testament, you know, pre Christ setting. And that's the sort of thing that I think demonstrates how we would, we would just receive these concepts that are like, what the fuck? Like, no, nobody's going to talk about how weird this is, or at least like dive a little deeper into the implications.

Matthew Garnier: We would just sort of take it and be like, I guess it'll make sense later. And then sometimes you just don't never get a good explanation. So I, you know, I dug deeper into those things and tried to figure out what I thought of them. But It was, it was hitting me, you know, on a pretty stark level from an early age.[00:07:00]

De'Vannon Seráphino: Hmm. I'm here for some stark levels and becoming incredibly uncomfortable. I'm just getting shaken up and shook up all down on the inside, man. So all 

Matthew Garnier: about getting uncomfortable. 

De'Vannon Seráphino: I want to read another little blurb here, talking about this whole end times. Things the way the people the way that it is preached in churches, and it says another one of his anecdotes He says that if 20 kids are taught that they live in the final days of a planet long overdue For Mighty Reckoning, half will be hella freaked out, half of these will testify decades later that they're still deprogramming from an apocalyptic mindset of which half will denounce their conditioning as cult propaganda while the other half pour through the wreckage for any critical takeaways.

De'Vannon Seráphino: I was reading this and I was reminded of from the Queens of Comedy where you had Queen Monique, Queen Adele, Queen Samore, and Miss Laura, uh, and they did that in the Kings of Comedy too. Queen [00:08:00] Adele was doing this joke about how her grandma always used to tell her that she's living in the last days, everything, and how she was fucking freaked out about it.

De'Vannon Seráphino: Right. And in the joke, Adele is saying, like, she got tired of hearing her grandmother tell her that everyone's living in their last days. And she's like, finally, she grabs her grandmother by the collar, and she was like, look. Stop telling me this shit. This is your fucking fantasy. Okay, you, oh, you done done all the hell you want to do.

De'Vannon Seráphino: But she was like, I bet you, you was 20 and fucking granddaddy. We wasn't living in our last days. 

Matthew Garnier: Exactly. No, that actually is a great way of putting it because it seems like this. Selective fascination where some people are all pumped on the idea, but only if they're past their prime, you know, you don't see young people in their, in their good years, like excited about getting vacuumed through space into heaven.

Matthew Garnier: You're like, that's, I mean, you're just saying I'm going to die suddenly. Is that, is [00:09:00] that cool? Now I understand that, you know, some people are deep in the theology of it, but like, I think that's a great example. It's, It's said very casually, like, yeah, we're living in the end times. What, what does that imply and why are you so sure?

Matthew Garnier: But yeah, to me that was something that was like at certain stages. Presented as months or less than a year away. And I found that very troubling. Now, within that statistic that I presented as if it was thoroughly researched and it was completely just based on my experience. I mean, you start with half the group who actually isn't that shaken up by it.

Matthew Garnier: They're just like, like, they just sort of hear it and it bounces off like, this is church stuff. I'll, you know, sort it out later. Then there's the half of us who are not that way. where we hear that and we're like, wait, what, what now? And within that, I [00:10:00] guess I'm subdividing that there are five who are traumatized by the conclusion they draw from it.

Matthew Garnier: Not just the, the raptures ahead, but like, what's to follow this.

Matthew Garnier: And then some people will then, you know, think independently about it, construct their own way of either acting on it or, you know, separating what they believe and what they don't believe. And they remain very rational. And then there are some who just become pissed off and they're driven by resentment.

Matthew Garnier: You know, and anger towards the church. And I always wanted to avoid that because those people don't, they're not usually happier for it. And to me, if those themes actually mattered, I wanted to keep a level head and really figure out what I think. So, that was the introduction to the book. And [00:11:00] then, you know, if that didn't turn anyone off right away, I think I come around to being a little bit more kind and, uh, gracious toward, toward the.

Matthew Garnier: People who might have presented those ideas. Well, I didn't want to put anything, you know, completely in a box of it's good or it's bad. I just wanted to say this is how it might play out. 

De'Vannon Seráphino: Being kind and gracious is all cute and all, but we are, we have come into a time where people need to be told shit straight the fuck up.

De'Vannon Seráphino: Kind and gracious is a spoil of the world and especially these United States. I'm over kind and gracious. Let's just get to the fucking point and tell people what the fuck is what. 

Matthew Garnier: Well, there are people and movements I was not kind of gracious toward. We'll touch on those. Well, 

De'Vannon Seráphino: I mean in terms of delivering truth to people.

De'Vannon Seráphino: Like, I don't want it sugar coated. I don't want it... Pat it down. I want it. I want it. Fuck reje Fuck revenge is the [00:12:00] dish best served, cold bitch. Truth is the dish best served, cold. Serve it straight the fuck up. With a touch of compassion, of course. But you can't be too nice about it or it'll just go over people's heads.

De'Vannon Seráphino: The people in the church, I think, had good intentions with just about everything they said, short of fucking the altar boys and whoever the hell else that they were in there. Doing just obviously wrong stuff to in the case of this I think the message was to not assume that you're going to necessarily live a certain length of time So no people in their 20s and stuff don't fantasize Unless they're a spiritual person because people who are really really spiritual do long to go in Transition and to be with God or to be the one with the cosmos or whatever you want to say it some days You know, I'm like that, you know, I'm like, and I've been this way for a long time, some days I'm like, you know, I'd [00:13:00] rather be a spirit, you know, not like suicidal, but like, sometimes I just feel like I'm there already.

De'Vannon Seráphino: But the thing is I, so the church took shit like that too far. But then the world doesn't necessarily pay enough attention to the finality of life. Because I've been to a lot of funerals, man, a lot of them, and most of them have been people in between like 20 and 40. People have really made it over the prime.

De'Vannon Seráphino: And so while someone in their 20s might not be, yay, Jesus, come on back before I have a chance to go to prom, if they're still in high school, before I have a chance to go to graduate college, but they don't, they don't know necessarily they're going to live to make it through that. And it's because you're young doesn't mean you have to get old.

De'Vannon Seráphino: So I get the church's point, get your spiritual life together because you don't know when the fuck you're going to die. But at the same time, they didn't need to tell us every goddamn time the church door open either. 

Matthew Garnier: Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. So, because that's 1 of the more. Radical positions on the surface, at least, I kind of use [00:14:00] that as the opening gateway to discuss how there are all these big concepts that are just thrown around and accepted, and, and that's, you know, one of many, which I think have the effect of then those outside the church looking at.

Matthew Garnier: at the church community as Very fringe which some of them are and I guess assuming that this is either something that they want which as we've discussed in many cases it is but that the whole the whole system the heaven and hell the world's about to end The moral structure that they're imposing, but there's also a divide within the church where some people I think Ascent to a belief that they that they don't necessarily want to be true, but they're like, well, this is the way it is they can't I mean they don't think [00:15:00] otherwise they're like I have to convey it and Whether that's a moral thing or a an eschatological thing

Matthew Garnier: There's not a lot of discussion about how people are arriving at these It's just like, that's the doctrine. We go with it. I think that's unhealthy to say the least. It's 

De'Vannon Seráphino: super unhealthy, but that is the way that the church is designed. You know, the church is not designed to encourage free thinking or challenging leadership or authority because the church is very cultish.

De'Vannon Seráphino: You know, in the way they go about doing things, and that's why that's a, that's a large, a huge theme. I feel like of your book is challenging people to think. Why do you think what you think? Why do you believe what you believe? Why do you feel what you feel? You know, growing up in church, it was the same way.

De'Vannon Seráphino: You know, they put things into my head, DSM.[00:16:00]

De'Vannon Seráphino: They just need to make an MDSM 6 and just have a whole chapter on it. Yeah, 

Matthew Garnier: they do update that frequently. I don't know if religious trauma, I guess that's the larger group within which you have, what's it called? Scrupulosity, which is the type of OCD that I definitely had where the big concern is making sure that you're saved.

Matthew Garnier: Because it's one thing if all, if you're presented with all this end time stuff and you're confident you're going to heaven, which has its own problems, but a whole other thing if you're concerned about going to hell. So that was front and center. Even if I didn't feel necessarily like an immoral person, you know, it wasn't, some people say the church told them you're going to hell for doing this or for doing that.

Matthew Garnier: To me it was, it was never that. It was just, I don't really feel like I know God, but the premise is that I'm [00:17:00] saved because I do. I don't know. And because I've received him into my life, and yet I don't feel like these adult church people do, you are clearly saved. You know, I, I just feel like I'm the sheep at the back of the pack following along.

Matthew Garnier: So, it was, 

De'Vannon Seráphino: yeah. That's a beautiful thing because the whole, the whole way to get into heaven and the whole way to have a happy life, afterlife, spiritual life on this earth and the one to come, the whole point is to get to know God. And what you were clear on is that. That can't happen with, like, through a pastor, through a, a whole, all these other people.

De'Vannon Seráphino: You felt the disconnect even though you were sitting in the church and you understood that just being in there is, did not give you a relationship with 

Matthew Garnier: God. Right. And I think if most people were honest about it, they would find that's not the case. I mean, it's almost like this. This big, unspoken reality that everyone is completely [00:18:00] bored and gaining nothing from church.

Matthew Garnier: Not everyone. There are people who are exceptions and they do appreciate that whole structure. Maybe for the sake of stability. But the actual, like, value that it's bringing to their lives. If they're honest is that they feel like they did a good deed by sitting there for however many hours, not that they were actually involved in some kind of mutual constructive growth.

Matthew Garnier: So whenever I get into like a deep dive about what is wrong with the church today, it's like, have you ever been to one? Like, did, were you really able to show up and feel like you walked away a better person for whatever happened? You know, while you were sitting there like. It's something that needs to be completely rethought, and maybe in some cases it has, but I think even within quote unquote good churches, like, it's, it's a big ask, honestly, for both the congregation and the pastor, that you're going to have a lecture [00:19:00] that really What draws people to God more than, I don't know, sharing life with each other?

De'Vannon Seráphino: I concur. Now, one thing I'd like to point out is that most people go to church for themselves. You know, the whole idea is I need to go there so I can get myself saved and giddy up and, you know, get into heaven and have a good life. People are not going to church for other people. They're going to church for themselves.

De'Vannon Seráphino: And they do believe that that's just going to sit there and checking the boxes. The thing is because that's the way churches package, you know, you know, they make it seem like. You know, come here so you can have an intimate experience with God during worship or whatever the case may be, but really your most important time with whatever do you believe in is when you're by yourself and no one else is around.

De'Vannon Seráphino: There isn't anything more sweet and more sincere than that. It's no different than if you're in a personal relationship with a best friend, [00:20:00] a lover or whatever. Go, you may go out on, into the public world, have dates or whatever, and that's all great, but your best time is always when you're alone with that person, period.

Matthew Garnier: I, I agree, but I mean, there's a crisis of people not being able to sit with themselves and just, like, really dwell on something and be honest about it. I think people are afraid of themselves in many cases because they know that their honest thoughts are going to expose all kinds of hypocrisy, insecurity, insincerity.

Matthew Garnier: which it will for everyone at first. You gotta dig that shit up and deal with it, you know? 

De'Vannon Seráphino: Blaise Pascal is a poet who wrote that all of humanity's problems stem from man's inability to sit quietly in a room. Alone. So yes, Mr. Garnier, I would fucking agree with you. And so would believe that 

Matthew Garnier: Pascal.

Matthew Garnier: Cognito ergo sum, and incognito no [00:21:00] est sum. I made that 

De'Vannon Seráphino: up. It sounded so deep and philosophical. 

Matthew Garnier: Yeah. If, yeah, if you're not thinking, what are you? That's, that's what I'm getting at. 

De'Vannon Seráphino: And you gotta slow down. I learned this because I had to spend like a seven, eight day clip in the mental health hospital like last month or the month before because of the way I was deconstructing, self destructing and breaking down over this breakup that I just went through with my previous, I mean, I was a boyfriend to him, but he wasn't really in the relationships.

De'Vannon Seráphino: I really know he was, I was with, I don't know, I was in a relationship. It wasn't until I was there, you know, locked in that building and couldn't leave and they had no cell phone and had no computer. Was I able to sit down and be still and let all of the barrage of emotions catch up to me? Because before that I was just running from them, flying here, you know, trying to get away from it, trying to do this drug, you know, trying to have this crazy sex or whatever [00:22:00] the case may be.

De'Vannon Seráphino: You know, and I just, I was able to sit fucking still. One huge thing I've had to learn, you know, that the counselors and the mental health people have been telling me, is to learn how to sit still with feelings, but you don't have to get up and do anything. So if I feel sad, if I have to cry, if I feel lonely, okay, make space for that.

De'Vannon Seráphino: But that doesn't mean I need to go out and try to patch it over with some strange person, or patch it over with some drug, or patch it over with some activity, or take a vacation. Or take a trip or whatever. Just set the fuck still is what I learned how to do. And then I was able to let the shit process.

Matthew Garnier: Yeah, everybody's got a thing that they, that they run to, you know, and so some people might judge you for whatever choice you make when you're running from something, but everybody's got it, you know, and sometimes it's so covert that they feel like, you know, they're staying healthy the whole time and it's, it's not, you know, they're just, they found little things to distract [00:23:00] themselves.

Matthew Garnier: From a real self 

De'Vannon Seráphino: analysis. Anything short of real self analysis is bullshit. No matter how good it makes you feel, especially that that's a tricky thing. Cause things like alcohol and drugs and sex make us make our anatomy. Feel good, but that doesn't heal them Come out like party drugs now, not psychedelics, you know you know that doesn't like heal the mind But even you're doing psychedelics just escaping out with the going into it with the intention of I want to face That it still can be you know a bad way of trying to escape Anything that you got a face dish as they say and the only way out is what?

De'Vannon Seráphino: Through. 

Matthew Garnier: Yeah, yeah. And in all three of those things you just mentioned, if I partake from a place of trying to heal or feel better, it's going to kick back, and it's going to make me feel worse. [00:24:00] So, like... I don't know. I guess people don't track that that that's what happens if they have the same experience.

Matthew Garnier: But that's why I say like, I think even in writing this book, you know, some people view it as it was like a therapeutic thing. And I'm like, no, I wouldn't actually be able to write anything good. If, I mean, insofar as it's good, but like, I wouldn't be able to, like, trying to do something when, trying to get back on my feet by doing another thing is not, doesn't usually go well.

Matthew Garnier: You know, it, I have to, I have to deal with it myself first. Before I'm gonna be all there again. That makes sense. 

De'Vannon Seráphino: Yeah, what you saying about it? It's like it's like mama RuPaul says you can't love yourself. How the hell you gonna love anyone else? 

Matthew Garnier: Yeah, I know that too. Well, yeah, 

De'Vannon Seráphino: no Yeah, no towards the beginning of this episode.

De'Vannon Seráphino: You were mentioning how [00:25:00] religious basically you're saying like religions become like more of like a social construct You know supposed to having so much to do with God. So I wonder what you think I know a lot of people go to church for a community. And it's really like for the people, it's it's like their nightclub, if you will, or their rotary club, or whatever the fuck, or their Toastmasters, you know, it's a place that they go to, to congregate.

De'Vannon Seráphino: I'm, I'm all like, the house of God was, you know, designed to be a house, you know, of God, you know, back in the, back in the Old Testament when churches started, people made their journey up there like maybe once a year, and they really worshipped at home, you know, church was not a weekly thing. And when they went, I mean, it seemed like, I feel like that people can get tricked into making a god or an [00:26:00] idol out of the socialization aspect of it.

De'Vannon Seráphino: Without realizing it because if you're really going to church more to see Felicia and your home girl and your homeboy and everybody and for the dinners and luncheons after and for all the fucking cute shit that they have at these churches these days, you know, what are you really worshipping? I'm not saying everybody's going there with fucked up intentions, but I'm saying they can become fucked up before you realize they're fucked up.

De'Vannon Seráphino: Right. 

Matthew Garnier: Or if not fucked up, they just... Complacent where it's it's that I'm putting in my dues mentality. So why not make it fun? Whereas I think I think like you see a lot of people these days who have become disenfranchised with the church But they're still kind of spiritually seeking Gravitating towards the like Eastern Orthodox religions and I think it's because what you mentioned like where there's a tradition of like the sacrament and like the [00:27:00] rituals that are all the way.

Matthew Garnier: It's like if we're going to do this religiously, let's really separate that from everything else. You know, I don't think you can completely detach religion from anything. And so there's a place for it, right? But what you're describing is kind of the murky middle ground. Where the, the idea of reverence is mixed with the potluck mentality and All those 

De'Vannon Seráphino: carbs.

Matthew Garnier: Thanks, Jeannie. F ing 

De'Vannon Seráphino: bitch. 

Matthew Garnier: I had a lot of, a lot of potlucks in the day. Can't hate on it, but, but no, like you're absolutely right. If you, if anybody wants to, to at least attempt to prostrate themselves before the divine, you would think it's, [00:28:00] it's a little further from that, from that vibe, you know, and that maybe they would separate those things out.

Matthew Garnier: And, but I'm still, I'm still saying like, you do need. A community aspect to accompany that solitude and all of that, that in a healthy spiritual practice, but they're in, I guess, if you're, if you're seeking like a real, um, see, I don't go to church, so maybe I shouldn't tell people what they should look for in a church, but, but hypothetical that if somebody is trying to have a transcendent experience I, I doubt it comes from the mainstream.

Matthew Garnier: Type of 

De'Vannon Seráphino: assembly, I concur, but since you so tell us, where do you stand today? What do you believe in? Why do you believe in it? Tell us, tell us where you're at in your faith form. 

Matthew Garnier: Okay, so I know [00:29:00] that philosophically I'm agnostic and that I don't I don't think we know things and I choose the word things because it's like we package ideas into things, words, Concepts, whatever.

Matthew Garnier: That's how we're meant to function. But I don't think that if there's true objective reality, that that's something we can take in morsels, right? So anything that we say is by definition, subjective that said, there could very well be an ultimate objective reality. And I think there must be, because we're all.

Matthew Garnier: Attracted to some things and resistant to others like this sounds like a true idea. This does not. This leads to pleasure and survival. This leads to pain and suffering. So I think we have what you might call a compass in place. [00:30:00] I'm just not one to pin down. What that's guiding us toward it's enough to me to say there's something pulling me or guiding me in a certain direction without going the spirit is telling me to say this, right?

Matthew Garnier: It's if I'm being honest with myself, that ought to be enough. And when I say ought to anything, I'm assuming that the values I perceive are somehow also Put into place by this creator who is at the source of everything. But you know, when it comes to defining God, I'm still agnostic about that maybe by some definition, atheists, just cause I don't presume anything.

Matthew Garnier: And yet the whole concept of existence is so mysterious to me that I, I want to remain open, you know, to whatever it may be. But I think moving from a place of. [00:31:00] The sense that I, I'm supposed to know God and I'm supposed to know what God is, and he's reading my heart slash mind to determine if I'm sincerely, you know, in love with him and in a relationship, that, that type of God just does not make sense.

Matthew Garnier: So I can't just take that at face value. I could never have a sincere and loving relationship with that. So that's why I don't just. Go with Pascal's wager and live as if I believe it. Cause I don't even know what that would look like. Right? So if, if God is associated with good and I see honesty as a good thing, then I have to be honest.

Matthew Garnier: And if there is a God, he reads my mind anyway. So he would know if I'm bullshitting a belief. So that's where I stand. 

De'Vannon Seráphino: That sounds like you're a work in progress. 

Matthew Garnier: Always. What would I be? If not a piece of shit. 

De'Vannon Seráphino: Well, your mind is [00:32:00] open and warm and receptive, and that's the best we can ask of any human.

De'Vannon Seráphino: And so, and so so just, just be where you're at, just be where you're at, just be where you're at and be happy with that. Shit. 

Matthew Garnier: Can I, can I bounce that back though? I'm curious where you are at, cause I've read both of your books. And you, you have, I'm just going to say an incredible storytelling ability.

Matthew Garnier: Like when you wrote your memoir, your mind's the night, almost not really a memoir by comparison because yours is. So like vivid in the moment, paint a picture and you make the point through your story. Mine kind of bounces back between the point and the story. But then you wrote this other one that is all about the point.

Matthew Garnier: It's almost like a gospel track, right? Like it's a breakdown of the whole thing. And to me, like, I'm I couldn't believe these two books were written by the same person. I don't think anyone would place those two together at all. And the, the more religious [00:33:00] one is very similar to something that I wrote many years ago when I was like, I better evangelize this message, even if I don't totally believe it, you know?

Matthew Garnier: And so. I was basically trying to, uh, align my logic with the Bible and give, you know, give the best explanation I could, but I was amazed how similar yours was. So is, is that still a good reflection of where you're at? 

De'Vannon Seráphino: I, I, I like, I like, I like, like how Gandhi said it. Like, I like your I like your Jesus, but I don't like your Christian, like your Christ, but I don't like your Christians.

De'Vannon Seráphino: And so my, my mistake was doing exactly what I was warning people about a couple of sentences ago is questioning your intentions of why you're going to church. I thought I was close to God. I am close to God. From a young child, I started having like spiritual dreams that would come true. And the [00:34:00] Lord approached me in these dreams and presented himself to me in different ways.

De'Vannon Seráphino: And, you know, I've had very up close and personal conversations with him. He sent me physical angels and things that have talked to me. You know, you know, as you know, as I get into in my book and everything, I know God and I believe in him because he has presented himself in a way that my mind could not refute.

De'Vannon Seráphino: Okay. I don't levy that expectation on all of humanity because maybe he hasn't presented himself that way to different people yet. You cannot believe what you cannot. You know, if it doesn't make sense to you, it doesn't make sense to you. Knowing all this, I took my ass to Lakewood Church in Houston, Texas and got caught up in the hype of that bitch.

De'Vannon Seráphino: Okay, and so then when they put me out for not being straight, and I let that cause a rift in between me and God and I didn't really talk to God for like five years. Now, why? Because I was [00:35:00] worshipping Joel Osteen, I was worshipping all the community around there, and the fucking lights, and the big ass auditorium, and all the, the cultic ass shit they have had us repeat, and say, and how good they made me feel about myself.

De'Vannon Seráphino: I, at some point along the way, just like in this narcissistic relationship, I just ended, I lost myself. I didn't know when the fuck I lost myself, and then I had to find myself again after the shit went up in flames. Coming back to God, I'm now in a position where like, that's where I get this, like, I don't think you need to go to church, your most important time is when you're not at church, because I fell into that trap before.

De'Vannon Seráphino: And at some point, I began, I made a God out of the community. And more than, more than what I had realized. So as of today, I believe in the Trinity because of the personal experiences that I have had, not because of anything a preacher told me. [00:36:00] Excuse me, and and so my message to people is to no matter what fucking bullshit you've been through in church, either yourself or someone you witness, don't let that drive a wedge in between you and your faith and what you believe.

De'Vannon Seráphino: So, I'm all for the tenets in the Bible and things like that, but I promote people to study it for themselves. I don't believe in trusting creatures with your eternal life or with your comfort here on this earth. And so... That is why I wrote that book, Don't Call Me a Christian. Because I think Christianity is fucked, and I think churches are fucked in general, not saying all of them are terrible, but at the end of the day, you need to go to God for yourself.

De'Vannon Seráphino: Those preachers don't have any sort of access to any special knowledge that's available, that you can, you gotta learn how to read Greek, Aramaic, and Hebrew, and all those things, if you really fucking wanna know, Yeah. The Bible's in its original languages, and it really, really pisses me off that... Most [00:37:00] people in this country who call themselves Christians cannot even much look at Any of the close to original the right writings that we have and discern it for themselves So they don't even know what the fuck they're reading 

Matthew Garnier: Yeah, that that's one component of what church could be that actually would be constructive if people are dead set on, you know interpreting the Bible Yeah, that's a self reflection that I wish most people were capable of, but I don't think they, I don't think they ever would until they had a excommunication or something or some sort of hostile experience.

Matthew Garnier: They wouldn't go back and say, all right, well, what is it that I actually believe? Cause now I'm feeling alienated, but I thought there was something there. Right? So I'm glad you pivoted that into something more or less self actualizing. And when you say Christianity is fucked, like I don't get the impression from what you wrote in, don't call me Christian.

Matthew Garnier: You think Christianity is fucked, but you think the church has issues. 

De'Vannon Seráphino: I don't believe in [00:38:00] denominations. I equate the church with Christianity because I equate the church with Christianity. The last time I referred to myself as the C word, Mr. Garnier, I was at this event, volunteering at a museum, as I do because I love me some art, and we were having a conversation and I was like, oh yeah, you know, it got spiritual.

De'Vannon Seráphino: I was like, yeah, I'm a Christian. The woman froze and she was like, Are you the good kind or the bad kind? And I was like, you know what? I had to explain. I'm the good kind, and I'm all that. I'm like, I'm the, I can't not be having a, a mental block or a roadblock or, or something that's, that's gonna co call ice to come between me and somebody just because I want a call myself, a Christian.

De'Vannon Seráphino: From the beginning it was not, so, Jesus wasn't a Christian. John the Baptist wasn't a Christian. None of the prophets of old were Christians. That's something that people came up with in order to divide the people who were going to be orthodox Jews from the people who were going to follow the ways of [00:39:00] Christ.

De'Vannon Seráphino: That's the only reason that they started that word. It was because they had to have some clarity on who stood the fuck for what. But now that that word is no longer serving the body of Christ, it's too corrupt with Republicans doing their shit, and we're about to take a turn to politics right now. Right.

De'Vannon Seráphino: You know, it's too corrupt. It's too fucking corrupt. If I use the c word and a person has to ask me, like, basically, are you the Republican kind? Are you the evangelical kind? Or are you the good kind? You know, girl? 

Matthew Garnier: It's are you an ideologue? Or like, or are you being sincere? You know? 

De'Vannon Seráphino: I don't have time for the bullshit.

De'Vannon Seráphino: I don't want people to like me, to accept the things I have to say, so I abandon that word. And I've never called myself a Christian since then because it is not used how it was intended in churches. Bees nest and wasps nest in many cases for all of these little Christian people to go run their asses up in there and then come back out and throw [00:40:00] shade at everybody else.

De'Vannon Seráphino: Yes, I'm talking to you, Karen. 

Matthew Garnier: I'm hanging out with a Karen later today. She hates 

De'Vannon Seráphino: that. But I have, I have, I have a middle of the show dad joke because let's go. Yeah. I asked this one to somebody the other day. Why did Karen press control, alt, delete on her keyboard?

De'Vannon Seráphino: Because she wanted to see the task manager.

De'Vannon Seráphino: So don't tell that to your Karen later on. Hopefully she'll love 

Matthew Garnier: it. 

De'Vannon Seráphino: You see, she's, she's, she's not Karen with a capital K. Now, actually that bitch ass Karen can have a lowercase K. Fuck that. How

De'Vannon Seráphino: are you going to say, I don't know. 

Matthew Garnier: I think I was going to say something around the idea of. Of, judgmental or moralistic Christians, you know, there's like, [00:41:00] there's the ones who I think, genuinely want to impose their morality on others because they're like, this is the way, and then there's the ones who don't actually feel any of that.

Matthew Garnier: And it's like this. difficult concession, you know? And I remember having a point in my own life when, I think honestly this was the first time that I'd like really gotten to know a gay man and spoken to him plainly about religion, right? And we're having a Intellectual conversation and he says to me, uh, So do you think me being gay is a sin?

Matthew Garnier: And I was like, shit, I, I basically have to say yes because I'm going off of, you know, this verse and that verse, whatever the church cites. It just kind of, it was the norm at the time. This was a long time ago. And and so I was like, yes, but we all have our own sins. [00:42:00] And then I compared it to like actual ethical sins.

Matthew Garnier: I was like, you know, some people are greedy or, you know, do this and that. And it's like, no, that's what I'm describing actually is a utilitarian problem, and I'm projecting that onto his lifestyle now. And I don't even want to be saying that because I don't even know why I would tell you that's bad. And and that was, that was a moment of real introspection, like.

Matthew Garnier: I don't even know why I feel like I, that in the church I wouldn't be allowed to fellowship with a gay person. It's bizarre. So that's, it's like, you have to actually believe something before you are going to live it out. And there's so many things like that that caused me. personal controversy in the Bible.

Matthew Garnier: It's like, am I going to defend that? Because if I say I believe it on account of it being in the Bible, I'm going to have to take all of this. Now, I understand, of course, you know, there's other ways of interpreting the Bible, and that's [00:43:00] church to church and person to person. But, um, that's what defines religion to me, is taking anything as a A matter of group think, you know, this is how our, our system views it.

Matthew Garnier: And then you just have to convey it. And some people like doing that. And some people don't. 

De'Vannon Seráphino: It's interesting, because they'll ostracize, like, people who've gotten, well, women who've gotten divorces. Yeah, that's another one, yep. But the thing is, Jesus said to draw in people, he said he hung out with people who, who had issues and things like that.

De'Vannon Seráphino: The last thing Jesus would have done would have discarded people. And the, and the whole group culture of the church is so, it is the antithesis to me of true cohesion, because there really is not cohesion within the body of Christ or within the body of Christianity. So this one, this one young, you know, Christian dude that I met, you know, he, you know, he was [00:44:00] talking about, you know, philosophy and things like that.

De'Vannon Seráphino: And I was explaining to him, you know, everybody needs to be able to interpret the Bible for themselves, go to God for themselves. And then he was like, so everyone can just come up with their own thing. And I was like, well, the church has already done that, my dear, because to say Christianity is supposed to be worshiping the same God, you have 50 different denominations, and a thousand different translations of supposedly the same text.

De'Vannon Seráphino: So I was like, young man. Yeah. They're mindfucking you because they have, everybody's already come up with their own shit anyway. And all I'm saying is that each individual. It needs to just get really granular and do what the big churches and the denominations are doing. All that means that everybody wants to do their own thing and look at God their own way.

Matthew Garnier: Exactly. So back to the politics thing, that ties in perfectly because you have the same thing within politics and in the section between. Politics and religion. 

De'Vannon Seráphino: Okay. Who's your favorite Republican right now? Is it Is it George Santos, [00:45:00] Donald Trump? Or who's that guy fighting? Disney down in Florida? Fuck, who's my favorite?

De'Vannon Seráphino: rere? Ron. Ron de Sanctimonious as 

Matthew Garnier: is he Republican? I honestly didn't, I I seriously don't track politics very closely. 

De'Vannon Seráphino: Oh, yeah. So at least if you don't probably track politics very closely, these three ass hats. You know, you know yeah, so Ron DeSantis is in Florida, he's the one who's fighting Disney, it just cost him like a 1 billion project there where Disney's gonna move all these jobs from California and Disney's just like, fuck you.

De'Vannon Seráphino: And George Santos is the one who made up all these lies and stuff and they were trying to get him removed from Congress because he's been like, I think, indicted, or charges brought against him for his lies, and the Republicans blocked him being removed from Congress because they're Republicans. And then Trump is Trump.

De'Vannon Seráphino: So Santos is Republican? All three of them are. Okay, okay. Look them up when you have time, [00:46:00] because... 

Matthew Garnier: Because I know, no, I know who Santos is as a figure, so that's why I'm like, wait, he's Republican? Because it's always, it's hilarious to me when anyone who is like, on the hard lines of an ideology, ends up getting caught in things that are so, like, counter to the values that they, that they 

De'Vannon Seráphino: preach, you know?

De'Vannon Seráphino: Oh, you mean because he's a flaming queen? Right. That was a very conservative and respectful way that you were saying, that he's saying, because he queens out, he's clearly not straight, why in the fuck would he be standing for Republican Principles. There's a whole caucus, a caucus, a group of fuck. I can't remember what animal, whatever the fuck they're called, but there's a whole group of like gay Republicans.

De'Vannon Seráphino: Yeah. It's like the whole thing. And it is the stupidest shit that like

Matthew Garnier: conservative values in that sometimes, you know, when a pastor or somebody is outed in a lifestyle like that, [00:47:00] it's because. The idea to them, I mean now they might just be pushing back and running from Something that they want to keep concealed But also that the idea is so kinky Cause it's so forbidden That that's like what withdraws them to it And that's why you find out, oh this pastor has a Sex slave in his basement Like, yeah, cause, cause he Gets off on it Cause it's like, hell no he wouldn't be

De'Vannon Seráphino: And most preachers and pastors are narcissists, star craving narcissists. And narcissists, as we have, as we know, live in their own world. They love double standards and the shit that they tell you not to do, they vehemently mean they don't want you to do it. But that, that means that they're not going to go run off and do it.

De'Vannon Seráphino: And so that's why we find these preachers doing all kinds of kinkery. And shit, you know, preaching against the gays on Sunday morning, but then having an orgy on Sunday night, you know? Yeah, [00:48:00]

Matthew Garnier: I mean it, as with any position of authority, it's like you, the, the criteria for entry is that you have an inflated sense of importance, unless you, I mean, there are, there are rare ones who I think Are like, I'm duty bound to do this thing I don't want to be doing and I'm going to be as humble as I can about it, but they're still human.

Matthew Garnier: They're still going to be corrupted by that on some level 

De'Vannon Seráphino: on some level. Now, it's the, it is the log cabin Republicans that I was thinking about and I pulled up their website. It says a log cabin Republicans is the nation's largest Republican organization dedicated to representing LGBT conservatives and allies for more than 40 years.

De'Vannon Seráphino: This is just as dumb to me as down here in the South, how we have these racist. queer people. 

Matthew Garnier: That could be the counterexample of what I was describing on a psychological level. Child, 

De'Vannon Seráphino: it's sad but touching, as they say. It's sad but touching. Is it 

Matthew Garnier: touching? [00:49:00]

De'Vannon Seráphino: We mean touching like in a special way, like short school 

Matthew Garnier: bus touch.

Matthew Garnier: Oh, touch. Yeah, yeah, I gotcha. 

De'Vannon Seráphino: What do you think about, did you watch the the Jerry Falwell documentary? 

Matthew Garnier: God forbid. Oh, you know, I did twice. That was crazy. Cause I'm like seeing people that I, well, not just people I know, but the world that I was living in when all of that went down and I've been told more than once, Matt, you could have been Becky's pool boy.

Matthew Garnier: And I'm like, hell no, 

De'Vannon Seráphino: it's not too late. I'm sure if you said, I'm 

Matthew Garnier: good, I'm good. She passed the milf cap for me.

De'Vannon Seráphino: You know? I, uh, that, that,

De'Vannon Seráphino: I, I'm, I'm glad it was all exposed and everything like that for whatever it's worth. I'm glad that Jerry Falwell Jr. finally got the balls to be [00:50:00] like, you know what, I ain't about this life. I didn't want to be up here doing this shit anyway. Yeah, 

Matthew Garnier: it was wild. I think the first article that came out about it afterwards, maybe it was Vanity Fair where he just completely was like.

Matthew Garnier: Yeah, fuck all of that. I'm glad I'm out, which is sort of saving face because it's like, well, you only once you were outed, but, the value of that being fully exposed and unpacked the way that the documentary did really, really showed, you know, going back to the roots of that whole movement that spawned liberty and spawned a lot, you know, the moral majority and all of that, like you see how intertwined all of these.

Matthew Garnier: completely human motivations are and co opting God and Christianity. So, you know, I remember when I was at Liberty both times being like, yeah, you know, there's a few bad apples, but at the center of it is a good community and whatever, [00:51:00] but nah, can't, can't look at that the same again. 

De'Vannon Seráphino: So for y'all who don't know, you know, Liberty University is what in Virginia.

Matthew Garnier: Yeah, 

De'Vannon Seráphino: Lynchburg, Virginia. Lynchburg, Virginia will not be going anyplace with lynch in it. Thank you very much. And but this documentary, the, the Falwells, you know, super rich people, super popular, hanging out with all you big televangelists. They get this hot ass pool boy who starts fucking... Barely both of them doing sexual things with Jerry Falwell Jr.

De'Vannon Seráphino: and the wife and all the tea is spilled. He shows up with the receipts and everything and it was on Hulu the last time I saw it. And so yeah, I want to get, get that sort of tea. Now, were you at, at the university that the Falwell started? You were at Liberty. Were you there when this scandal happened?

De'Vannon Seráphino: Oh, yes. 

Matthew Garnier: You were there. So I was there originally. You know, when I was an undergrad was like way before that, but I had gone back even [00:52:00] once I was ideologically not aligned with Liberty's values, I wanted to go back when I started podcasting to talk to people from a similar background on campus. And also just to kind of.

Matthew Garnier: exercise some demons from my past. So there I was working at the school taking classes as I pleased because they were free, but mostly just working in podcasting, and, you know, attending convocations and stuff sometimes. So I was fully integrated in the culture. In fact, I felt more like a student then than I had.

Matthew Garnier: back in the day when I was too depressed to come out of my room. So I was like really in the, in the thick of it. And, in the sense also that I was, you know, in all the big wigs offices, cleaning them and stuff like that. I was a janitor. And, yeah, I was getting, I was getting a feeling about Jerry and, you know, talking to students, some of whom shared my feelings and [00:53:00] others who were like, yeah, he's hilarious.

Matthew Garnier: We love it. You know, you could see both sides of that and. The pool boy was something we all kind of joked about, like, we knew that there was some something about a pool boy, but like, well, of course not, though, because this is the campus president who says that we can't dance or drink or can't even like kiss your girlfriend or boyfriend on campus.

Matthew Garnier: Like, this is Obviously not that kind of scandal. Like maybe he's got some fishy financial maneuvers. So for it to come out and be that intense, there was, there was buildup, you know, while he, he, he was dismissed from his role as the president before all of that came out. I don't know how long the board of directors knew that he was.

Matthew Garnier: Or that that was going on. But they let a lot of stuff fly when he started unleashing on Twitter. And I mean, the man was clearly an [00:54:00] alcoholic, walk around with a glass of vodka or tequila or something all the time. Yeah, big old mess. And I was, it was just, I was. Watching it go down, and doc sort of documenting it, both through podcast and a documentary that I was filming at the time.

Matthew Garnier: Like a vlog style thing. So, got a lot of that on record. Oooooooowee!

De'Vannon Seráphino: Girl! Girl! It's not every day you get to live through some shit like that. Did that, do you think that that shook your faith? Did it make you, what were the, I love 

Matthew Garnier: having my faith shaken. When I take, if I'm taking something as like, this is normal and this is fine, you know, this is just my life. And then it just goes, bam, like.

Matthew Garnier: You know, it's even crazier than you could have imagined. I love that. I don't, I don't want to, I want to always doubt everything, you know, or at least [00:55:00] be like, you never know what's possible. So because I had zero faith in the institutional religion or Politics that they were peddling so it was it was glorious watching it go up in flames pun acknowledged 

De'Vannon Seráphino: So so he so y'all he wasn't one of those ones going.

De'Vannon Seráphino: Oh my god. I can't believe this is happening I don't know who I am anymore. You're like He knew who he 

Matthew Garnier: was all along and yeah, I was definitely not struggling with any identity crisis from that 

De'Vannon Seráphino: It happens though when these people's preachers get arrested or caught up or shut down their tax evasion or whatever sex scandal It causes the whole congregation in some of those churches is go haywire, you know, and yeah 

Matthew Garnier: It was it was kind of funny how I mean after that all came out I'd already left the school and that whole place but It did seem like they sort of tried to just bounce back like they literally put another Jerry in his place and were [00:56:00] like we're good We're good.

Matthew Garnier: He had some issues Moving on, and I think they're still doing fine. Like, it's weird how many people don't actually care. I, I mean, maybe, maybe they shouldn't care. It's the man's personal life, and it was fucked, but there's, that's why I think this documentary is so important, because it's showing that there was a lot more to it than just...

Matthew Garnier: Oh, this guy likes to watch his wife get pounded. Like, that's not, that's not the problem. There's way more to it that just happened to get unraveled simultaneously to that. 

De'Vannon Seráphino: Child, it's just all about what affects the bottom line, because churches are money driven businesses. They're not soul driven businesses these days.

De'Vannon Seráphino: It's like, it's like, so I get kicked out of Lakewood Church because I'm hanging out in Montrose in Houston in the gay district downtown for stuff I'm not doing at church. Yet, Joel Osteen has Kanye West on stage, and they're like, friends. So, you want your congregation to grow up and be like Kanye.

Matthew Garnier: Kanye's been through many phases. [00:57:00] What, what era are we talking about? No, I'm not, I'm not trying to defend him. I'm saying at what point was his affiliation with Kanye? 

De'Vannon Seráphino: At what point was he ever Which yay did he get? Oh, fuck. Oh, this has been a couple of years. All I know, this is the same Kanye who snatches microphones from white bitches on stage.

De'Vannon Seráphino: Oh, yeah. Yeah. It's still the same Kanye. That's the Kanye I know. This is the same Kanye now who's associated with white supremacists and defending Donald Trump. This is the person Joel Osteen's like, yeah, that's my guy, but my volunteer, who's working for free, is not permitted to go do, hang out with gay people when they're not involved.

De'Vannon Seráphino: Yeah, 

Matthew Garnier: yeah. No, he was, Kanye and Jerry were a thing too, and the only reason Jerry didn't bring Kanye in, Kanye asked asked to do like a what they call a Sunday service, which is really just like a concert in the football stadium recorded on a Sunday morning. And Jerry just didn't realize Kanye's clout. So he was like, yeah, now we've got stuff going [00:58:00] on.

Matthew Garnier: But yeah, he wanted, he wanted to be involved with, with Liberty, right. When he was Finding Jesus in the wake of Yeezus. And then... 

De'Vannon Seráphino: Yeah, I think he just found Yeezus. He didn't give a damn about God. But so Gian Giancarlo Granda was the name of the pool boy. Did you I don't know if he went to Liberty or not.

De'Vannon Seráphino: Did you know him by chance? No, I 

Matthew Garnier: don't I don't I doubt we ever would have crossed paths. I mean, I've probably seen him, but I I don't I don't even know if he was a student. 

De'Vannon Seráphino: Okay, so then before we begin to wrap this up, and I thank you for going over our time a little bit here. Oh, I'll go as long as you want.

De'Vannon Seráphino: I know that you do like movies and things like that, like you said, you were filming a documentary during this time. Do you care to tell people about that aspect of 

Matthew Garnier: you? Sure, yeah, so don't expect to see anything that's gonna hit a theater near you anytime soon, but it's all on my YouTube. I, I try to make [00:59:00] videos and movies that tell a story through my lens.

Matthew Garnier: So sometimes it comes across really egotistical and sometimes actually... Doing those projects has gotten me a little self absorbed and depressed, but, in the name of trying to say something of value. So yeah, twice in my life in 2019 and then in, or yeah, 20, yeah, 2019 and then last year, 2022, I made these.

Matthew Garnier: Two and a half hour videos that just covered everything I did in my life with some narration and input from other people to just try to capture something about, um, what makes people tick. So that's one of the things that's on my YouTube and then a lot of, you know, like poem and comedy projects, and I'm going to be dropping something this coming week.

Matthew Garnier: So maybe that'll be out by the time, uh, this is posted, but yeah, I'm on YouTube, Spotify, both under my full name and the book's on 

De'Vannon Seráphino: [01:00:00] Amazon. All of that will be going in the showy notes. Okay, so now we can switch over to my dad jokes. If you're ready, was there anything else? Let's roll. Today's, today's dad jokes are brought to you courtesy of countryliving.

De'Vannon Seráphino: com. Dad joke number one, why should we pray for the calendar? 

Matthew Garnier: Because it's got some dates coming up. 

De'Vannon Seráphino: It has dates coming up? Yeah, I don't know. I know, uh, because it's days are numbered. Oh, 

Matthew Garnier: that's better. Yep. 

De'Vannon Seráphino: God, I don't want to go. I don't want to go on dates with whoever the fuck he the calendar is going out with It's got a lot of them fucking bitches dad joke number two Why do fathers take an extra pair of socks when they go golfing?

Matthew Garnier: In case they get a hole [01:01:00] in one. Right, you got it. Boom! Oh, man, I must have impregnated somebody because I feel like a dad. 

De'Vannon Seráphino: Hey, you never know. We can get Jerry Springer to help you. Yeah, I've had 

Matthew Garnier: to, yeah, let's 

De'Vannon Seráphino: leave that alone. Dad joke number three. What did the ocean say to the beach?

Matthew Garnier: Damn you fine.

De'Vannon Seráphino: That would have been a high compliment and I would have accepted it, but actually nothing. It just waved.

De'Vannon Seráphino: Right. We love dad jokes here on the Sex, Drugs, and Jesus podcast because You can always use a dad joke to tell yourself if you're starting to take life too seriously or not. You're right. You can't laugh at a good corny ass whack a doodle whack a mole bullshit [01:02:00] joke like I just told. Yeah. It's time for you to find Christ, find a blunt, find a glass of chardonnay, find a dick.

De'Vannon Seráphino: No, no, don't do that. Don't you do that. Don't y'all do that. Yeah, I'm good. Sex is a beautiful thing and should be used in the sacred spiritual way that God intended. So. Matt, do you have any last words for the world? Words of encouragement, mental health hacks, anything at all you wanna fucking say? Oh my 

Matthew Garnier: God, you can open up the platform, man.

Matthew Garnier: I don't wanna, I don't wanna probably give people advice on mental health. . Let's see. Oh man. Gimme a genre. Preach, preach, gimme something, gimme, gimme something to riff off of. Gimme a word. Anything. I'll play with it. 

De'Vannon Seráphino: Anything that you would like to say on people? Who are currently in a state of religious trauma.

De'Vannon Seráphino: Look, people who are currently attending church and they know that [01:03:00]they are not happy but they can't leave. 

Matthew Garnier: Man, if you feel like you can't leave, you gotta figure out, as I guess you did, honestly, if it's a problem with people or a problem with... God, as you understand God, and if the problem, well, if you feel like you can't, if you feel like you can't leave the church, I think you'd probably be surprised once you step outside of it and let go as scary as it may be of some of the preconceived assumptions that you've held that you're going to actually see maybe what you call God in a whole new way and not a corrupted way, a child like as Jesus would advocate.

Matthew Garnier: And, you know, if that is in fact, what's at the core of your belief, if it's not, you might see something else that, um, [01:04:00] resonates with you. But if you are genuinely seeking God and you're like, in a place that's uncomfortable, like, well, this is you we're talking about. Don't let other people tell you what to believe or it's not a belief.

Matthew Garnier: And if you're not comfortable in that setting, uh, I mean, trauma is a serious thing. And I was. I don't know if I can say, you know, to somebody who's been genuinely abused or traumatized, you know, how they should respond to that, where's a safe place to be, or if the church is going to bring value to them, but if you're looking for solutions from people you don't necessarily trust, I mean, I feel like that's a pretty obvious red flag.

Matthew Garnier: You know, if, if you're trusting in the structure of a belief rather than an [01:05:00]experience you've actually had, or a logic that actually makes sense to you, cause that's all we've got logic and experiences. I think. I don't know what other boxes there could be. So I hope that rings true. I mean, I'm saying what to me is very self evident and profound, but maybe someone needs to 

De'Vannon Seráphino: hear that.

De'Vannon Seráphino: Logic and experiences go a long way. Logic just goes back to why do you think what you think? Why do you believe what you believe? Why do you feel what you feel? It's logic. It's logical living as opposed to emotional living. Logic, what you're saying ties back to how we were saying, when you have problems, you can't go run hide it in sex, you can't go run hide it in alcohol, you can't go run hide it in drugs, the only logical thing to do is to face the shit, and go through it and set your ass still, and figure out what the fuck's going on with you, so I would say amen, amen, and a hallelujah.

De'Vannon Seráphino: To everything that you just said, Matthew Garnier, um, it's the link to his book will go in the showy [01:06:00] notes. He's on Facebook, YouTube, Tiki Taki and Instagram and all of that is going to go in the showy notes as it always does. Matthew, you've been a pleasure. Likewise, I look forward to releasing this episode and exposing your beautiful face to this whole wide world.

Matthew Garnier: Hey, anybody who's hung around this long, I truly thank you for supporting, independent, thought provoking, titillating content. Yes, I'm here for this show. We love it. Thank you, sir. 

De'Vannon: Thank you all so much for taking time to listen to the sex, drugs, and Jesus podcast. It really means everything to me. Look, if you love the show, you can find more information and resources at sex, drugs, and Jesus. com, or wherever you listen to your podcast. Feel free to reach out to me directly at Devannon at sexdrugsandjesus.

De'Vannon: com and on Twitter and Facebook as well. My name is Devannon and it's [01:07:00] been wonderful being your host today. And just remember that everything is going to be all right.

De'Vannon:

De'Vannon: