Episode #136: Being Afraid Of What You Are In Love With, Narcissistic Personality Disorder vs. Borderline Personality Disorder & The Magic Of Music, With Janey Brown, Trauma Informed Coach + Keynote Speaker + Professional Singer

INTRODUCTION:

I’m a trauma-informed coach, professional singer and keynote speaker. I help people build resilience to fear and manage mental health so they can radiate confidence in front of any audience. I'm studying psychology at Queen's University and will be publishing my first book very soon!!! I love deep connection and having great conversations that uplift, inspire and help others.

Over the last two decades, I’ve performed in front of THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE and struggled with astonishing stage fright most of the way. I used to try and “fight” my fears, achieve perfection and never show weakness. All that did was weaken me further, induce a deep sense of loneliness from abandoning myself and turn my fear into a monster. Eventually, this way of living devoured my physical and mental health. After avidly studying psychology and trauma since 2014, what was once my fear has now become my FUEL. I founded Fearce Academy to provide the mental health, emotional intelligence, confidence and leadership skills I lacked coming up in the entertainment industry, especially around mindset and fear. I was taught that fear is a weakness, but after years of fighting fears and losing, it’s clear now that fear is just an untapped source of fuel. When honed, fear can actually become our friend.

INCLUDED IN THIS EPISODE (But not limited to):

 ·      God Has Not Given Us The Spirit Of Fear…No, He Did Not

·      Being Afraid Of What You Are In Love With

·      When Janey Met P!nk At Yoga!!!

·      Our Thoughts On Alanis Morrissette 

·      Manufactured Artists vs. The Real Deal

·      Signing By Janey & De’Vannon

·      Narcissistic Personality Disorder vs. Borderline Personality Disorder

·      The Importance Of Awareness

·      Trauma Informed Therapy Is A Must!

·      Soooo Much Potential!!!

CONNECT WITH JANEY BROWN:

Website: https://janeybrown.com

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/janeybrown

TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@janeybworld

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/janeybrown

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/janeybworld

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/janeybworld/

Twitter: https://twitter.com/JaneyBworld

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/janeybrown/

CONNECT WITH DE’VANNON:

Website: https://www.SexDrugsAndJesus.com

Website: https://www.DownUnderApparel.com   

Spiritual Services: https://www.sexdrugsandjesus.com/magical-lessons/

Donate Via PayPal: https://shorturl.at/gq068

CashApp: $DeVannonSeraphino

Venmo: @DeVannonSeraphino 

Patreon: https://patreon.com/SDJPodcast

TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@sexdrugsandjesus

YouTube: https://bit.ly/3daTqCM

Transcript

Episode #136: Being Afraid Of What You Are In Love With, Narcissistic Personality Disorder vs. Borderline Personality Disorder & The Magic Of Music, With Janey Brown, Trauma Informed Coach + Keynote Speaker + Professional Singer

Janey Brown

[00:00:00]

De'Vannon Seráphino: Hello, and Happy New Year, everyone. I would like to welcome you back to the sex, drugs, and Jesus podcast. My name is Devannon and I'm so glad to be back with you today. I have for you great and wonderfully talented woman by the name of Janie Brown. Janie is a trauma informed coach. She's a professional singer and a keynote speaker.

De'Vannon Seráphino: My people, she helps build resilience within people to fear. She helps people manage mental health, and she also helps people to radiate confidence. Jamie has been a speaker at South by Southwest. She's also created her very own fierce academy. That's F E A R C E. We will be covering that in the day's episode, like y'all to go ahead and check out some of the highlights

Janey Brown: hilarious. A lot of people compare me to pink for some reason, not just that it's actually funny because usually it's when they hear me sing and here are some of my music, but you're the first to compare me to her outside of the musical realm.[00:01:00]

Janey Brown: And I take that as a compliment. I love her. 

Janey Brown: you're right, though, like when you when you love the very thing that you're afraid of, it's like having your foot on the gas and the brake at the same time. So I'm a trauma informed coach. Whereas I could have a psychiatrist who's not a trauma informed psychiatrist. These are the top level people that are diagnosing and prescribing medication, right? They could literally not be trauma informed. 

De'Vannon Seráphino: I present to you, the great Janie Brown.

De'Vannon Seráphino: hello, hello, you big beautiful world out there. Welcome back to the Sex, Drugs, and Jesus podcast. I'm your host, Vanna, and I have a lovely, talented, amazing, sexy, beautiful, bright, Bold, bodacious, radical, Janie Brown.

De'Vannon Seráphino: I'm with me today looking like a fucking rock star, bitch. How are 

Janey Brown: you? I'm great. That was an amazing intro, maybe the best I've ever had. So thank you. 

De'Vannon Seráphino: [00:02:00] Of course, y'all. She is a trauma informed coach, a professional singer, and a keynote speaker. I was listening to one of her songs over there on Apple Music and Bitch.

De'Vannon Seráphino: Girl, you could have been on the fucking voice and Christina Aguilera, they would have stood up and gave you that look like she helps people build resilience to fear and manage mental health so that they can radiate. Radiates confidence in front of any audience. And I'm going to add up here and say you radiate confidence within yourself, too.

De'Vannon Seráphino: She's studying psychology at Queen's University. We'll be publishing her first book later on this year. She has a deep connection to people and she loves having great conversations that uplift, inspire, and help others. Her website is janiebrown. com and this [00:03:00] motherfucking website is janiebrown. com.

De'Vannon Seráphino: Fierce. It's snatched for the God. She has a blog she and coaching and programs and cute, FAQ section. She's the, the creator of what's called a Fierce Academy. There's a tab on here called Applause. It's, it's kind of like my website. It's very Sagittarian and very extra. And because you just have like every fucking thing you need here.

De'Vannon Seráphino: Yeah, 

Janey Brown: that's 

De'Vannon Seráphino: so true. Oh, man. That's so funny. Now, is there anything you would like to say to start us off about your history or your passions or anything? Go ahead and let it rip. 

Janey Brown: I mean, that was so incredible. I appreciate you doing your research on, on me and collecting all that information. And wow, I feel like I could, you know, take the intro that you just gave and do a trailer and have that just be, you know, the thing that introduces my website, my YouTube, whatever.

De'Vannon Seráphino: It's [00:04:00] amazing. Let me know. I love to do some voice acting. Yeah. 

Janey Brown: Yeah. Well, you would crush it. Yeah. No, I mean, I think you pretty much nailed the gist of it. I'm I'm super stoked to be here and have a conversation with you and, you know, get to know you and it's going to be fun. 

De'Vannon Seráphino: Thank you. I feel the same way.

De'Vannon Seráphino: I'm vibing on your energy. Okay, so I'm going to read this scripture from the traditional Christian Bible. Y'all all know I don't identify as no damn Christian because Christianity is fucked seven ways from Sunday, pun intended. And so, but I still believe in the Trinity and God, Jesus Christ and the angels and all of them.

De'Vannon Seráphino: Dang, doesn't mean nothing wrong, but the church is fucked up. However, there is knowledge to be found in things that we read, so we will take from it what we can. In the book of second Timothy. In the first chapter in the seventh verse, this verse covers a large overarching theme. That we're going to be talking about today, and this verse says that God has not given us the spirit of fear, but of power and of love [00:05:00] and of a sound mind.

De'Vannon Seráphino: And in this episode, we're going to be talking a lot about fear. We're going to be talking about trauma, being trauma informed and working with shadow work and letting go of perfection and overcoming performing anxiety and a few more things as well. So tell us Janie, what do you think about? fear and how has this played into your personal mental health challenges and triumphs?

De'Vannon Seráphino: Mm hmm. 

Janey Brown: Well, I think it's, it's important to differentiate fear from stress and fear from anxiety. You know, stress is, is something that you fear feel rather with both fear and anxiety, but fear and anxiety are different. Fear is this present focused experience. Where your brain is essentially saying there is a threat here right now.

Janey Brown: Anxiety is this experience where you're thinking about the future and you're experiencing fear and anxiety, you know, towards something that could [00:06:00] happen or will happen. Fear can certainly turn into anxiety, but, and if mismanaged, then fear can You know, it can, it can really hold you back from taking risks and doing the things that you want to do to advance.

Janey Brown: But yeah, I guess fear has played a huge role in my life. As a performer, I started performing at 10 years old. And, you know, for probably about 15 years of my entire performance career, I had, you know, crippling stage fright. And, you know, when you dive deeper into the psychology of that, we learn that, okay, it's actually performance anxiety.

Janey Brown: It is an anxiety focused sort of condition or experience. But it's called stage fright. So, you know, fright is fear. And you know, that, that kind of just, I guess, summarizes the experience a little bit more, you know, easily and helps people digest like what's actually happening for a person when you say it that way.

Janey Brown: So. Beers played a huge role. [00:07:00] I spent a lot of years afraid of, you know, the things that I was Also in love with and I guess luckily for me, I did it anyway, I was afraid but did it anyway, but it didn't, it didn't, you know, as much as that is great because I, you know, I'm not sitting here and regret necessarily also wasn't the greatest that I didn't learn to cope with it for so long because it started to damage my physical and mental health.

Janey Brown: So yeah, that's sort of what I have to say about fear.

De'Vannon Seráphino: So you're like, like, I mean, amen, amen. Concur, concur, concur to what you have to say. What stood out to me is you said you were afraid of a thing that you were also in love with. When you said that, that took me back to, it took me back to my, it took me back to two things. When I was in the military and young and [00:08:00] trying to date girls and trying to figure out my sexuality and it's like I wanted to be with him, but I was also afraid to be with him at the same time.

De'Vannon Seráphino: My evangelist, Nelson, from my, you know, my spiritual counselor from growing up, she was telling me like, okay, you either got to be in or out. You can't be, you know, afraid you have to be present. And, you know, if you're going to be talking to these girls and trying to make that happen. It also, it takes me back to so many different relationships that I've had.

De'Vannon Seráphino: Where the, where the guy couldn't, you know, like when I was living in Texas, there was this one guy, he couldn't, it's like, he wanted to be with me, but he didn't accept himself. And so therefore he was not, he was also afraid. It's like, it's difficult when you want to do something, but you have that fear kind of holding back.

De'Vannon Seráphino: Then you end up with one step, one foot in front of you and one back and you end up [00:09:00] pulling yourself in two different directions. And so you've got to be in or out, up or down. You got to over it. We'll talk about whether or not we're going to be overcoming fear and doing it while we're still afraid and everything.

De'Vannon Seráphino: But you're, 

Janey Brown: you're right, though, like when you when you love the very thing that you're afraid of, it's like having your foot on the gas and the brake at the same time. And I love what you just said about acceptance. Because acceptance is the remedy in my, you know, in, in my research and in my sort of, claims self acceptance is the remedy to managing fear to, to softening fear to being able to do the thing that you're afraid of and, and, and feel afraid and do it anyway.

Janey Brown: Self acceptance is a foundational remedy. And yeah, I guess skill or tool or whatever you want to call it, practice that allows us to do that from my perspective, 

De'Vannon Seráphino: except you're right, [00:10:00] absolutely 100 percent acceptance to me is just dealing with shit the way the fuck it is, which is the only damn way you can deal with shit, as they say, in the recovery circles, dealing with life on life terms, wherever you want to look at it, what that means is, you know, Like, at times in my life when I've struggled with weight and I've gained weight, it's because I was too afraid to stand on the scale and look at it.

De'Vannon Seráphino: Mmm. I didn't want it to tell me that I was gaining weight. And so in my head, I convinced myself that maybe if I just don't look at the scale, and I keep magically eating 3 a. m. when I leave the club and don't work out, cause I'm thinking the dancing's gonna do it. You know, lo and behold, now I'm 250 pounds, you know, y'all, I'm back down now, I've lost about 50, 60 pounds, so we're good now, and I look at the damn scale every day, I don't let that, but it was like this [00:11:00]fear would grip me, and I would just cringe, and I'm like, oh, no, I just don't want to look at the scale, I just don't want to look.

De'Vannon Seráphino: I had to pay attention to it. And now when I see the weight get over the threshold that I've set or getting near it, I say, okay, it's time to tighten up and do something. So you know, so yeah, fear, fear, fear is, fear is crippling. 

Janey Brown: Yeah. Yeah. And it, and you're right that living in a space of denial. It's, it's not only not going to change anything, but it's going to make things worse.

Janey Brown: I mean, for me, you know, I, I had stage fright. I was struggling with mental health challenges behind the scenes and my way of coping with it was just, I don't have fear, what are you talking about? And just to override, override, override for so many years. And it eventually, you know, devoured my mental and physical health.

Janey Brown: And I had to really deal with that and undo a lot of things. And I, you know, I, I see sort of what you just said about the scale as like a, a metaphor for, you know, my experience and maybe my experience, a metaphor for yours, you know? 

De'Vannon Seráphino: Absolutely. We [00:12:00] feed off each other girl in the best way. When you have this kind of positive exchange with somebody, people, you can come into a room or a space with them, send each other energy, enhance each other.

De'Vannon Seráphino: Nobody feels drained when it's... That is the market difference if you're dealing with somebody who's an energy vampire versus somebody who isn't. Nobody, everyone doesn't feel uplifted, there's a goddamn problem and some shit needs to be weeded out and discarded. 

Janey Brown: Yeah, yeah, I agree. 

De'Vannon Seráphino: Talk to us about your coaching.

De'Vannon Seráphino: Is it, do you do group coaching, one on one do you send is there things that people can download and read that you've written, or do you do like a pre call or anything like that? She has an amazing YouTube channel, people will see it. 

Janey Brown: Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. For coaching. It's, it's a mixture of things.

Janey Brown: Sometimes I [00:13:00] do groups. Sometimes I do one on one, it kind of just depends on what shows up and what the client needs. But I also have a do it yourself program. It's a, it's like a six week do it yourself program that's currently on my website. And it's, you know, quite a, quite a. Economic you know, decision.

Janey Brown: It's, you know, it's, it's very inexpensive is what I'm trying to say. So if people are, you know, struggling to be able to do coaching every week or, you know, on a regular basis, this can be an option because it, it provides some of the foundational principles that I offer in my coaching. I mean, There's nothing quite like one on one coaching because you're, you know, you're getting sort of this curated experience with the coach and you're able to give personal examples and how can we kind of, kind of workshop those things.

Janey Brown: But I do stand by the material in my do it yourself program. And I think that, you know, it, it, it can be just as valuable if someone's committed enough to actually work through the material. [00:14:00] And then that material actually is being consolidated into a book right now that I'll be releasing this fall.

Janey Brown: It's going to be, you know, there's going to be some differences, but you know, it's just another option to get the material out there so that if people don't want to do a six week course and do it online and be on their laptops, they can have this physical thing to read that that hopefully helps them that way.

De'Vannon Seráphino: Okay, I'm going to read this directly from your website, if you don't mind. Yeah. So under the coaching tab on there, um, it says, these are the sort of things that Janie can help you with. It says, do you struggle with a lack of confidence, loneliness, mental health challenges, not being where you want to be in life, inferiority, insecurity.

De'Vannon Seráphino: That's a big one for the males out there in society. Anxiety about the future, and I don't mean that guys judgmentally, I mean that because I love you and I see that how you struggle within yourself with your masculinity with what the world tries to tell you to do, um, fear of failure, lack of [00:15:00] motivation and productivity, self loathing, perfectionism.

De'Vannon Seráphino: Janie says she can help with that.

De'Vannon Seráphino: So Janie has worked with other performing artists, athletes, entrepreneurs, team leaders, speakers, coaches, real estate agents, lawyers, military veterans, such as myself, such as all of you beautiful folks out there. Janie is super edgy. She looks on our website. She looks like pink, but she's black and white in most of these pictures.

De'Vannon Seráphino: She kind of is giving me badass, lezzy vibes. And this coach is totally on like, kick your fucking ass. So this is 

Janey Brown: hilarious. A lot of people compare me to pink for some reason, not just that it's actually funny because usually it's when they hear me sing and here are some of my music, but you're the first to compare me to her outside of the musical realm.

Janey Brown: And I take that as a compliment. I love her. 

De'Vannon Seráphino: You know what? It's been a long fucking time since we've sang on this show, so I'm [00:16:00] gonna go first, and hopefully Pink doesn't sue me for doing this little blurb, but, you know, this is like one of my major main breakup songs, her song, you know, about gotta get up and try, so I'll just do it real quick.

De'Vannon Seráphino: She says, Just because it hurts doesn't mean you're gonna die. You gotta get up and try. Try. Try. You gotta get up and try. 

Janey Brown: Yay. That's so brave. That's so brave. You just did it like that too. So brave. Very impressive. I'm sure she would be delighted if she heard 

De'Vannon Seráphino: that. I think fucking so too. That's a real down ass bitch.

De'Vannon Seráphino: Yeah, 

Janey Brown: man. Yeah. She's cool. She's cool. I actually met her in LA. In yoga class, like several years ago, she would never remember. But, I was like sitting, whatever I was sitting on my mat and there was like one spot left in the class. And she like came and sat down and I [00:17:00] immediately knew who she was. And you know, I just kind of like, I don't even remember how we started talking, which just kind of happened.

Janey Brown: And she was so chill and like, hi, I'm Alicia. And like, we shook hands and like, you know, just the fact that she introduced herself as Alicia, it was just so like. Super chill, you know, very, very lovely person, at least in that encounter. 

De'Vannon Seráphino: I think that that probably carries through with her. Cause you don't ever see her in like the media throwing bricks through people's fucking windows and Aaron, you know, some people in this world actually aren't dramatic and they're just really good people with positive energy.

De'Vannon Seráphino: And that's just the way they're going to be. Yeah, 

Janey Brown: yeah. What's interesting about her, I was actually thinking about this because she's still doing it, man. She's still putting out music and her music's killing it. And I'm looking at sort of, you know, I, you know, I love Christina. I, I love, I love so many different artists.

Janey Brown: I really do like even when it comes to metal and all the genres really, I could listen to almost anything. But [00:18:00] with pink, like she has this sort of this probably she's prevailing and she's persistent and she's, she's kind of long lasting. And I wonder if part of the reason. For that for her in comparison to other, you know, like mainstream pop stars is that she was able to actually just be more real in her music.

Janey Brown: I don't want to, that's a really generalized statement and I don't want to, you know, compare her to anyone specific. It's just more like she really was able to sing about, you know, like even family trauma and. You know, it wasn't there was probably a lot that was contained within her music like you can, you know, like edited or whatever there there was in her songwriting camps and stuff.

Janey Brown: I'm sure there was people being like, well, we can't go that far, but we can kind of mention this. But still, she was able to kind of use this as an outlet for her genuine experience and. You know, consistently did that and consistently kind of broke barriers within the pop realm like it was pop rock. It was crossover.

Janey Brown: Like she, she took risks. She does circus in [00:19:00] her, you know, in her her live performances and stuff. And yeah, I've just, I don't know. It was just kind of this thought I had was like, I wonder if that's why she's Prevailing because she's so adaptable and because she was so honest within her material. I don't know.

Janey Brown: The answer to that is just a thought. 

De'Vannon Seráphino: Look, bruh. Game recognizes game. People can tell when you're fake and when you're genuine and when you have a certain... Truth about you. It's pretty much, I mean, she, she, she was a little Hollywooded out in her first album, but made her mark in Hollywood. She broke away from that shit real quick.

De'Vannon Seráphino: And she was just like, this is what it's going to be. I'm not goddamn Britney Spears and I'm not goddamn Jessica Simpson. Yep. I'm going to be me and I love Jessica Simpson and Britney Spears. I'm just saying what she said in her own special unique way. Yeah. Of her uniqueness and what she said was real.

De'Vannon Seráphino: People could connect with it. And [00:20:00] she was talking about more than just breaking up with, but she did talk about that too, but she was talking about having fucked up families and shit. And we hadn't heard that since, you know, the days of like offspring and, you know, the band, the nineties, like alternative boy bands used to talk about stuff like that.

De'Vannon Seráphino: Not a female by herself. There was, there was a lot, it's more said, but you know, girls like that who carry that side of the edge. You don't come around very often. 

Janey Brown: Especially in the mainstream pop realm, right? Like, because Alanis, I mean, Alanis became mainstream. She kind of like, she, you know, she magnetized mainstream to her and then mainstream oriented around her.

Janey Brown: And then that became this sort of goal or aspiration, but Pink was, you know, already in the mainstream realm and was, you know, marketed as a pop star as it were. But yeah, like to your point, we, we hadn't heard that. You know, that type of language and, and that those types of lyrics within that realm, she was really a risk taker.

Janey Brown: I felt, you know, and it's interesting because in, in competition with, [00:21:00] you know, some of these major artists at the time, they maybe would have, you know, whatever topped her in, in, in different ways because they fit like exactly the radio mold. But it's interesting because now she's the one still lasting.

Janey Brown: So it's, yeah, I don't know. Lots. I love thinking about music and history of music and music principles. And it's just interesting. It's, it's really a reflection of our culture, you know. Truly 

De'Vannon Seráphino: it is. And, and behind the scenes at Hollywood, it really becomes down to why you're there. There are people who can cut an album.

De'Vannon Seráphino: I mean, you're going to be a millionaire off of one song. So that's not even, so a lot of them get money and then they stop because they don't really have a true calling. Mm hmm. Yeah. Like dance interpretive dances that she does and how she mixes in. So many things, be it water falling from the ceiling, that girl has a gift to reach people.

De'Vannon Seráphino: That is her ministry. Not the same if you were [00:22:00] just cute enough with the right body, with the right voice. There's plenty piddled very very pretty people in this world with no substance to them. Totally totally She has substance. She's physically attractive, but her she is doing what God put her on this earth to do and so when Hollywood is grinding on her she can grind back because that's where she's supposed to be if you were just there for To be cute and shit.

De'Vannon Seráphino: You don't run when the when the shit gets too intense 

Janey Brown: Right. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Well, and it's funny because there's, they're like, I can think of a couple artists in my mind or at least one where I did kind of, at least at the time of them coming out, I kind of thought that about them. I was like, Oh, this is just, you know, this is a manufacturer.

Janey Brown: And they were, they were a manufactured artist and they were really beautiful, but it's interesting because they've also some, you know, they've also stood the test of time and. I've actually watched them transform into their artistry. It's almost like reciprocal determinism or something. It was like, you know, the, the outside world decided that they were going to be this artist.[00:23:00]

Janey Brown: And then as a result, they caught up to it and became an artist. And I'm, you know, they've, they've done some really impressive things from both a performance, you know, vocal skill and songwriting standpoint. So, I mean, that can happen, but. It's, it's, I think more common what you just mentioned is like pretty people that have a one hit and then they're gone, you know, and, and the, the real ones kind of let's stand the test of time, right?

De'Vannon Seráphino: Yeah. Do you care to give us a little sample of any of your songs? You want to sing us a little diddy? 

Janey Brown: Sure. Yeah, I actually just released a song called thank you for loving me. And. It's written through the lens of my mental health struggles. It, it's you know, when you're, when you have chronic mental health challenges, you often feel like.

Janey Brown: You're a monster. You feel, you know, like for me, at least I felt like I was going to rub off on people like I almost wanted to [00:24:00] protect people from me. And, you know, the different reactions I would have with the mental health struggles. If, if nothing else, I, I would isolate myself to protect. Myself from looking weak.

Janey Brown: Right. So this song is essentially about yeah, you know, just me, struggling and essentially the gratitude that I've found towards all the people that have lasted in my life all this time or stood, stood by me all this time. So I'll just sing. Let me sing, um, like a verse through the first hook or something, and then whatever you want.

Janey Brown: Cool. Cool. All right.

Janey Brown: I can be crazy and a little dirty, moody and selfish, act like a princess. I'm a handful and [00:25:00] out of control. I live to fight. And I don't play nice. Sometimes I spiral so far down I don't think I'll come out. But there you are wide open.

Janey Brown: Somehow I'll make you proud. I can't imagine what you see. See, when the war and passion is through me, I've got a strong attraction to anarchy. So, thank you for loving me, yeah. Thank [00:26:00] you for loving me.

Janey Brown: Thank you for loving me. 

De'Vannon Seráphino: Okay. This is the point where my chair spins around and I hit the red button, and I get you on my team and I stand up and do that. 

Janey Brown: Oh man. I would love to be on your vocal team. . . 

Janey Brown: Yes, . Thank you. Thank you. So what you were singing about then and what you were saying? A friend of mine.

Janey Brown: A very dear friend of mine was, he was, he was expressing to me last night, you know, when we were hanging out how, you know, he feels like he has been, you know, bad to people before and he's afraid that he's going to be that way. And so he works really, really hard because he feels like naturally he's not actually very nice.

Janey Brown: You know, he had like, you know, an abusive dad growing up and stuff like that. And he really doesn't want you [00:27:00] to, and I guess he took on some of those traits and he does not want to be like that. And I told him, you know, that's all you can do is to become aware that is your healing. I found this guy on Instagram who he's like an aware narcissist.

Janey Brown: Yes. Oh my gosh. I think I know who you're talking about. That black 

De'Vannon Seráphino: guy. 

Janey Brown: Oh, that's a different one. Okay. So there's more than one, but that's, it's been really fascinating to watch that by the way. But yeah, 

De'Vannon Seráphino: go ahead. Yeah. If you think about who it is, let me know so I can add it to my show notes. But are you going to email it to me later on?

De'Vannon Seráphino: Yeah. It's been really interesting to find men out there who have had various mental health issues, be it narcissistic, personality disorder, whatever, what they become is aware of it. So what they're saying is the shit doesn't really necessarily go away or the symptoms being lessened, but it's kind of like an addict recognizing, okay, there's a voice telling me to [00:28:00] go get crystal meth and shoot it up.

De'Vannon Seráphino: So I'm not going to do that because I know how that's going to go. So I guess for them, it's like, okay, I can feel this lack of empathy rising or I want to say something mean or however it is for them. I can't step into that headspace because I'm not a narcissist, but. At any rate, there's like, becoming aware, so is that the same for you, like, cause you've expressed that fear.

De'Vannon Seráphino: How do you overcome that? 

Janey Brown: Okay, there's so much to say based on what you just said, and I want to tackle it all. So first of all, you know, it, it, the, it, there, it's complex, like narcissistic personality disorder is complex. And sometimes. I think there are people that get misdiagnosed for narcissistic personality disorder when really what they have is borderline personality disorder with a, with an emphasis on narcissistic traits and borderline is actually a pretty malleable or it can be a malleable condition.

Janey Brown: So [00:29:00] there's, there's, hope, you know, in, in terms of if, if people can do the work, they can over time soften those symptoms and, you know, even put it into remission. Obviously, there's different scales, you know, if you have extreme, extreme borderline, you know, it, it varies. So I can't say that across the board, but people that, that struggle with borderline personality disorder.

Janey Brown: There's narcissistic traits in there, and it varies on how strong those traits are from person to person. It also depends on how that condition develops. Borderline is actually very closely linked to complex PTSD, which is a relational trauma. Complex PTSD is incited by relational trauma versus disaster trauma, which is PTSD.

Janey Brown: And... When it comes to relational trauma, when you begin to do your healing around that, then you can also amend those symptoms and traits that look a lot like [00:30:00] BPD, borderline personality disorder. So, I say that because There is kind of this notion out there that if you have narcissistic personality disorder, like you're kind of screwed and you know, you kind of have it forever and in a sense that's true, but there is malignant and covert and there's benign and sort of more malleable narcissists and the ones on the lower end of the scale, they do have a chance at chipping away at this thing.

Janey Brown: You know, with things like tools like self awareness and emotional regulation and you know, cognitive behavioral therapy and dialectical behavioral therapy are super important for people like that. But yeah, I definitely agree that, that awareness is sort of the first step to anything. It's actually the first chapter in my book, first module in my program, like, you know, how to cultivate awareness you know, and the different tools around that are, are.

Janey Brown: Something I believe in just wholeheartedly for a variety of different reasons. [00:31:00]But, you know, to circle back around to Your, you know, question about, and I do want to say with addiction, it's, it's a different, it's, it's something different compelling them. So, you know, the instinct to, like you said, be mean or, I don't know, beat me kind of.

Janey Brown: Put the spotlight on yourself in a social setting and make it all about you like those, those things that are compelling a person to do that, are a different motivator and a different sort of demon, let's say, then someone who has addiction and someone who has addiction, it might actually be stronger for them.

Janey Brown: You know, and they might not be able to control it. Like you, you know, the people really need help with these mental health conditions. They're quite severe. And it's, it's tough to, you know, I just, I've, I find society kind of is sort of too quick to be like well, why don't they just decide not to, you know what I mean?

Janey Brown: And, and it's, it's, it's a lot more complicated than that, as, as I'm sure you're, you know, you know, with your own experiences. [00:32:00] But to circle back around to your question about like, is it the same with fear? I would say yes. Like the first step to being able to manage. Something that's, that's, you know, disrupting your life, whether it be mental health conditions, or something as you know, basic as fear, which is something all humans experience, or, you know, something more severe, like disorders, like, the first step is awareness, for sure, and then from there, there's a whole host of different paths you can take to, you know, amend the experiences and heal and, but yeah, I mean, for a lot of people, especially with Mental health disorders like this is different than just I'm experiencing anxiety or experiencing depression as a symptom.

Janey Brown: We're talking like people with disorders, bipolar complex PTSD, PTSD, borderline, like, those are usually, yeah, like lifelong, you know, you have to work them lifelong doesn't mean they won't improve over time, but it requires a multitude of methods. That look different than the next [00:33:00]guys or gals or they's and those methods right can change within you from day to day, year to year.

Janey Brown: You know, and, and sometimes it's, it's a lifelong thing. And even though it improves, like, you're still going to have to do those things.

De'Vannon Seráphino: What I love is all of the potential and all your information you just gave is fantastic. I. I look at people with these extreme issues before them, be they borderline personality, you know, a sociopath, someone with Machiavellianistic tendencies, or whatever the hell the case may be. Well, you got a struggle on your hands, but if you are able to prevail over that thing and get the victory, then you will be a strong contributor to society and you really will shine.

De'Vannon Seráphino: brightly. But you, you kind of, you either have to overcome this shit or it's going to dominate you. Yes. You know, but it's an opportunity to grow [00:34:00] because these things refine us. And grow us. And so I look at it as potential. 

Janey Brown: Mm hmm. I love that word. And I love that you just said that word. It's such a good word.

Janey Brown: Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, it's, it's, Ah, with, with narcissism, it's really challenging because it, it, it's like, people believe that, you know, when a narcissist is, like, mali Like, they believe that narcissists are malicious. And I struggle with that attachment to a narcissist because what's actually happening is whenever they developed this personality disorder is usually quite young and it's often oriented around like trauma or something that they they need like this personality formed as a way for them to protect themselves and survive some some type of situation and the whole like Point of narcissism is that your mind protects you, protects you from your own psychology so that you can survive.[00:35:00]

Janey Brown: So if, if it's like this wall between your awareness and your own psychology so that you can survive, it's very hard to penetrate that wall because the narcissism will always kind of show up and convince you that it's not you, it's them, or. There is no wall or, you know, whatever. And, and obviously the higher on the narcissistic scale someone is, and by the way, we all have narcissism in us.

Janey Brown: It's just a matter of how strong it is and how much, much it's being utilized and relied on, unconsciously or consciously. Yeah, it, it just kind of is really challenging for someone who's higher on the end of that narcissistic scale because it's, it's like not their fault that they can't see the wall that's protecting them from their own psychology.

Janey Brown: Like, it's just a thing that's, you know, it's just not happening. And that's really challenging because it's, it's like that person is literally doing the best they can, even though it seems like they are. And, and it, it's tough because [00:36:00] it, especially if there's like narcissistic abuse going on, like that person is intentionally, you know, capitalizing on that relationship to get what they need out of it.

Janey Brown: Like it's, it's intentional, but it's also driven from this place of like complete unconsciousness. And it's, It's challenging for people on the other end of that to wrap their heads around that because it feels so abusive it is, you know, it is abusive, and it feels so personal and it feels so intentional and evil, and really the only way you can have compassion for it is if you're completely removed from the situation like you can't, you can't afford to be compassionate towards them when you're in the situation, you need to use your anger to get out of the situation if it's narcissistic abuse but yeah anyway it, you Not to kind of go on a rabbit hole, but there's, it's more complex than just like people are, you know, selfish, even with sociopaths and psychopaths, like, the problem with them is they don't have [00:37:00] the under, like, they don't have compassion.

Janey Brown: Like if, it's not like necessarily, it's like they cognizantly know they're doing something wrong, but they don't have feelings. So, like, it kind of doesn't matter. It's different if, like, I hurt you, and I have feelings and compassion, and I know that I'm hurting you, and you're telling me I'm hurting you, and I do it anyway.

Janey Brown: Like, that's, I don't know. There's just, there's a difference there. Anyway, it's not to excuse anyone's behavior at all. Like, murderous psychopaths, like, should be segregated from society in some way, for sure. But it's also to say like, I don't know. It's not like they're like, I know how much, I don't know.

Janey Brown: It's complicated. Yeah. 

De'Vannon Seráphino: What you're trying to say, like, you're trying to separate like the man from the malady in a way saying like, you know, but my whole thing is they're definitely doing evil [00:38:00]things. Yeah. Okay. And so, and so I'm going to go ahead and assign them the title of being evil because people who are falling, all of those things are like they're like, yeah, they're 

Janey Brown: doing evil thing.

Janey Brown: Totally. I want to. For sure back you on that. Like this is not across the board. Like, you know, they don't know what they're doing or they're not evil. Like there are evil narcissists for sure. There are evil psychopaths for sure. There's also evil people who are neither right? So we need to get really real with that.

Janey Brown: Like, when we get into looking at like sex trafficking and stuff, especially with children, like It's not, you know, it's, it's not necessarily, it's not necessarily that every single person involved in that trade is a psychopath, sociopath, or narcissist, but they're doing very evil things, you know, so yeah, I'm glad you said that because I don't want to make it seem like I'm like having compassion for like a murderer, like, it's not acceptable [00:39:00] in any way, shape, or form.

Janey Brown: It's just more to more or less and analyze and sort of, you know, Examine like psychology objectively that that was kind of my point before, but let's go into the evil stuff. If you want, 

De'Vannon Seráphino: I totally get it. I think that people I think that people with these extreme personality disorders. Do murder people with not, even though it's not physically, they kill them spiritually and emotionally and mentally, like you were saying, the, the murderers need to be locked away.

De'Vannon Seráphino: So they don't keep butchering people. I personally think this is just me, y'all that a sociopath, a psychopath, a narcissist, a covert narcissist, who are high enough on those scales to do things to actually. Put people in situations where they're physically harming them. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Transmitting sexual diseases to them [00:40:00] and not telling them that they have them.

De'Vannon Seráphino: I've heard of doctors doing this. You know, someone was telling me the other day about a doctor who she used to work for. He would, some of his boyfriends would break up with him because he's a terrible, he's a fucking narcissist. And then he's a, and he's a sex addict too. So, or so he would go and out and have sex with people as a way to cope with them.

De'Vannon Seráphino: And he would have STDs and shit. And then he'd come back into the doctor's office and have his nurses pump him full of all these steroids and shit to get over it and they were like, okay, she was like, consider calling, you know, the Centers for Disease Control, whoever, you know, the state on him to come set the white man out your house and shit and arrest him for going out there and intentionally spreading diseases to people.

De'Vannon Seráphino: I think that they should be sent to a mental hospital, not necessarily jail, but they're out here wrecking [00:41:00] people and damaging them. They might pull a Jeffrey Dahmer and chop them up and eat them, but if you've seen a person after they've gotten out of relationships, say, like, with a narcissist, There ain't nothing left in them.

De'Vannon Seráphino: They're like a hollow. Yes. 

Janey Brown: Yes. Yes. Yes. Absolutely. To me. Yeah, absolutely. And it's such an important distinction that you're making like it doesn't matter who you are and what personality disorder you have or not if you're committing. Violence or harm against others, you know, you need to be punished in some way, depending on what that violence or harm is, right?

Janey Brown: Like, it's illegal to assault someone. It is illegal to have non consensual sex. Like, these things need, they cannot go unpunished. And it doesn't, yeah, it doesn't really matter who you are or what type of, whether you have a personality disorder or not, you know, definitely that needs to be, you know, monitored and, and, and punished.

Janey Brown: Yeah, it's, it's complex. I mean, you know, the, the, the tech, I think [00:42:00] to look through the lens of de stigmatizing mental health disorders, kind of my earlier point is more just not all narcissists, you know, are these evil people, you know, it's just, it's becoming in the, in the media and in pop culture now as, as sort of the broader society learns about mental health through, you know, You know, minute long talking head videos from someone that has an opinion like, you know, it's I think important that we continue to destigmatize these personality disorders because borderline, for example, is extremely stigmatized.

Janey Brown: And there's a lot of beautiful, good people that are making progress with those disorders like they're not all these like psychopaths and out there trying to hurt people and all of that. So. There's kind of two sides of the coin. It's like, as a general rule, if people are committing crimes, you know, especially harm, harm against people like that is unacceptable 100%.

Janey Brown: But also, let's try our best to take [00:43:00] each kind of person as a case by case scenario and, you know, get try try to, you know, I guess, use supportive language in Thank you. Towards people who are actually putting in an effort like, you know, you mentioned like the dude who's a narcissist online who like is aware of it and is talking about it like the worst thing we can do is shame that person for any reason because shame triggers narcissism.

Janey Brown: So like having supportive language around like, yeah, like. There's pro, you know, progress can be had and, you know, for you, it looks like your narcissism is malleable and just kind of encouraging. I think that's, that's important rather than grouping everyone into like this, like, you know, category of, you know, 

De'Vannon Seráphino: stigma.

De'Vannon Seráphino: Right. Help is there for you no matter what the fuck the problem is. You're not the first person to have it, probably won't be the last, but the help is there. So please get out of your own way. Stop dribbling the ball on your own foot, and stop tripping over your own self, and then [00:44:00]become truly happy, perhaps for the first time in your life.

De'Vannon Seráphino: What, you mentioned that there's a program that you have coming up, did we, did we cover that? Oh, it's a 

Janey Brown: book actually. So I, my program is already out. It's called fear to fears and the book that's coming out will be based. It'll incorporate a lot of that material. So that if people don't want to do a program and be on their laptop, they can, they can read a book instead.

Janey Brown: So yeah, the program is out. It's essentially a course to help people manage their mental health build resilience to fear and, and live courageously. 

De'Vannon Seráphino: Okay, so you, when you spell your Fierce Academy, you spell it F E A R C E. Mm hmm. You know, can you tell us exactly what the Fierce Academy is and why you chose to spell it that 

Janey Brown: way?

Janey Brown: Yeah, yeah. So I love that question. Fierce Academy is pretty simply my company. It, you know, distribute, I've, I've released songs under [00:45:00] it. So it's, it's a publishing company. It's also a coaching company and public speaking company. But the name of it, Came from sort of, I guess the thesis of my work, which is it's really grounded in shadow work, kind of looking at the dark side and learning to incorporate that into our whole being so that we can actually become stronger and more resilient and live more fulfilling lives.

Janey Brown: The tendency with things like fear, right? And things like darkness is to try and quote unquote, get rid of it, right? Like become fearless or. Get rid of our demons or like have no sort of damning qualities. And I, I use the word damning also in quotations because I don't believe any of these qualities are damning.

Janey Brown: I think all humans have demons and always will. Like every human is, it's got, got a little bit of angel and demon in them, if you will, to, you know, to say that as a metaphor, but I don't think fear is a damning quality. [00:46:00] I don't think, you know flaw like we all have basically. And The tendency is to try to get rid of those and my understanding when you look at shadow work, which is not my idea, it's founded by the godfather of shadow work named Carl Jung.

Janey Brown: When you look at that, you start to understand actually the path to fulfill filament to the path to being fearless is actually to admit and acknowledge and integrate our fear into our experience. It's to it's to. Really be present with our fear and learn how to build resilience to it and turn it into fuel.

Janey Brown: So given the fact that, you know, we need our darkness and our light to rise, I attempted to spell the word that way to, to attempt to demonstrate sort of a visual cue of like, we need our fears to be fierce. We're not fierce without our fears. We're actually fierce in the [00:47:00] presence of our fears.

Janey Brown: Synonym for courage, if you will. And it's a demonstration of like, essentially what my work is about. We're working to incorporate our fears into our lived experience and our darkness into our lived experience. And as a result, we will, we will become more powerful than we could ever imagine. Mm.

De'Vannon Seráphino: Correct. Correct. Correct. Fear is a part of the human experience, even though God has not given us a spirit of fear, but a power and a loving of a sound mind. He's given us a way to overcome it and to work with it. And so I want to tell people out there who be looking at, you know, motherfuckers like Janie and me going forth as we do and all this boldness and all this bravery, be.

De'Vannon Seráphino: Okay. I used to be so fucking nervous when I used to give presentations in like school that the sweat would [00:48:00] just be falling from my face and everything like, cause I sweat very easily. I was trembling and shaking and shit. You know, now I can speak. Okay. It, it was a growth, but I still stood there and gave the damn speech, even though I was afraid the answer was not to run.

De'Vannon Seráphino: And the more I did it, the better I got at it. And then the fear was gone. So I'm saying that this to brag on myself. But I'm saying it's just because you see people who look stronger there, you perceive them as being stronger than you are like, we've never been afraid a day in our life, or that we're not currently afraid.

De'Vannon Seráphino: I could be fucking nervous right now. Right. The point is, you could see celebrities singing on television, people hosting talk shows. You never know when somebody's afraid. They've just learned to convert it into energy. Is what Janie was saying. So don't discredit yourself and think that we got something figured out that you don't, you know, we all went through it.

De'Vannon Seráphino: We just got through it. And that's what we're trying to help you do. So if you were feeling [00:49:00] fear, like a deep breath on that shit and be like a bitch is afraid right now, get up and do it any fucking way. And there's nothing wrong with being afraid, but there is wrong with letting that fear paralyze 

Janey Brown: you.

Janey Brown: Yes. Oh my gosh. All of that. All of that. Yeah, like a hundred percent. I love that you just said all that. And it's, it's, it's very reflective of my experience. Like I was, that's the thing I kind of, I kind of say like with stage fright, for example, performance anxiety, which is by the way, the number one human fear, like I'm pretty sure it prevails over death.

Janey Brown: Which, I don't know, that's kind of hard to believe, but if anything, maybe they tie, or there's a close second there, but, um, beer, for me, like, Fear, from my perspective and my research, fear can manifest in two ways when it comes to performing. You can get on stage and like fail because you were too nervous or whatever, like some type aspect of your stage fright or your fear overwhelmed you and [00:50:00] you didn't do a good job.

Janey Brown: And then that's a motivator for you to get off stage and go, okay. Like, how do I prevent that from happening again? Right? Oh, I need to manage my fear. I need to like, do all this self work to like, from the inside out, be confident, right? But there's another way that fear can, you know, manifest in your life or performance anxiety can manage manifest in your life.

Janey Brown: And for me, it was this, it was, I'm gonna, I feel afraid. I'm going to completely override that and ignore it. And I would go on stage and I would crush it. Like I would crush it. All the applause, right? I come off stage. I'd feel like hell again. And it would just be the cycle over and over again. But because my standard for success was just performing well, it kind of didn't matter what happened.

Janey Brown: Like, you know, mental health, physical health, be damned. I was performing well and getting that applause. Right. And it's, it's hard when you're not failing. To have any type of motivation to do anything about it because you're if your only goal is really to [00:51:00] succeed and you're doing that then who cares right and that was what was so confusing for people when I started to come forward and share my experience like I was very stigmatized in the beginning like I've people laugh at me when I tried to open up about what was going on behind the scenes because it was sort of like the hell do you have to be Complaining about, you know, you're in a spotlight all the time and people are always applauding you and writing about you and, you know, like, you're this, like, pretty little lawn girl.

Janey Brown: Like, what the hell do you have to complain about? Like, kind of pull yourself up by your bootstraps and get back out there kind of thing. And, you know, that's complete, it's just completely harmful to disregard someone's experience. Obviously, I don't need to say why. But. It's so it's not only damaging for the people watching that are going like, I'll never be able to be that person because I feel like this inside.

Janey Brown: So now you're discounting yourself, but you're also discounting their experience and basically saying like, you know, they don't get to have an experience because they're [00:52:00]seemingly competent. So, I love that you said all that, because that's a real experience that I really struggled with for a long time.

Janey Brown: And it's probably something so many other people struggle with. The people that actually do well on stage, well, they're fine, 

De'Vannon Seráphino: you know? Right, and I love your energy and everything that you are expressing right now. I know that you are an incredible guide to people. I heard a pastor say one time, he was relating this to physical sickness, but he said that, that healings come in different forms and he said just because someone dies with something doesn't mean that they died because of it.

De'Vannon Seráphino: He was saying like, if somebody had like say a cancer or tumor, or like, you know, I have HIV. You know, these things may go away, they may not, but that doesn't mean you have to pull your health down, or you may not die from it, see, it's like, it's like God is freezing it in place, or teaching you how to manage it, so I take medicine, medicine to manage the [00:53:00] HIV, even though it's still in my bloodstream, you know, at super low levels.

De'Vannon Seráphino: It's no different with fear or anything else. You may, or narcissistic personality disorder, or borderline, or sociopathic, or whatever, if you can at least acknowledge it, own it, and manage it, then you have the victory over it. It doesn't have to dissolve and go away. 

Janey Brown: Absolutely. Oh my God, you just nailed it.

Janey Brown: You just nailed it. For sure. You don't need to get rid of it if you can learn to become resilient to it. And frankly, like a lot of these conditions, you won't get rid of them, you know, like, and that's just not the point. It's not even necessary. You know, I love that you just said that. That's, I think that's a huge.

De'Vannon Seráphino: Thank you, I appreciate it. Look, baby, whatever we can do to work these people out of these shackles, but fear ain't gonna cut it. We gotta get up and do something. Something. So the last thing wanted to ask you before we get onto our dad jokes are is trauma informed therapy. So you are trauma informed.

De'Vannon Seráphino: She's [00:54:00] going to tell you this more, but there's a difference between a therapist who knows what the fuck trauma is and how it affects you. And when somebody who's just going to sit there and repeat back to your words and tell you everything's going to be all right and nod. A lot of therapists don't know what the fuck narcissistic personality disorder is, they don't know how to diagnose the sociopath sitting in front of them.

De'Vannon Seráphino: They, if somebody went to school, or are sitting up there with some fucking letters behind their name, it doesn't mean their education continued, and it doesn't mean that they are in lockstep with what's going on in the world today. A lot of people with established practices have established practices, so therefore their motivation.

De'Vannon Seráphino: Continuing education. Okay. You can bullshit your way through that. Okay. You don't necessarily have to go back and learn something useful, even though the career film makes you go to school each year to continue your education. So they haven't already, they have a practice established already. They already got any money and they may not need to deal with what [00:55:00]you're dealing with.

De'Vannon Seráphino: So tell us what is, what is a non trauma informed therapist versus a trauma informed therapist. 

Janey Brown: Yeah, so first I'll start by saying I don't exactly know how it is in America, but in Canada, and I assume it's what I'm about to say is similar in both regions, but okay, so in Canada, a psychotherapist does not have the authority or the credentials to diagnose anyone.

Janey Brown: So only a psych, I think a psychiatrist, maybe a psychologist, but a psychiatrist for sure. Can not only diagnose but prescribe so they can do a psychological assessment and then also prescribe medication, you know, given the diagnosis that they, you know, believe that you have, but a psychotherapist. That's not their role.

Janey Brown: They don't do psychological assessments. They help you work through your psycho dine like they do psycho dynamic analysis and help you work through your own psychology and bring awareness to your own psychology. So I think that's a [00:56:00] really important distinction because. If people are expecting psychotherapists to give them a diagnosis, that's not going to happen, at least, at least not in Canada, because they're not allowed.

Janey Brown: They're just, they don't have that level of schooling. They're very educated, at least here but they don't have the level of schooling to do a formal analysis and diagnosis. Yes, it is true that kind of like in every profession, there's people that are both good and bad at their jobs and who are both better educated or less educated.

Janey Brown: I think You know, that's kind of where the trial and error comes in when someone's looking for a therapist. The trial and error comes in with like, is this a good fit? You know, can, do I, do I feel, do I get the sense that this person, like, has the education that I'm gonna need to sort of help me on my journey?

Janey Brown: But a trauma informed element to therapy is It's essentially someone who's gone and done an [00:57:00] extra course or an extra certification on complex PTSD and PTSD. That's, that's summarizing sort of the gist of it. That's not exactly it, but it's, it's like. You can be like, I'm not a therapist. I'm a coach.

Janey Brown: So I'm a trauma informed coach. Whereas I could have a psychiatrist who's not a trauma informed psychiatrist. These are the top level people that are diagnosing and prescribing medication, right? They could literally not be trauma informed. So trauma informed is actually it's trauma rather is its own field.

Janey Brown: That goes hand in hand with psychology, the psychology field. But psychology as a study is completely different than the study of trauma. And What we're starting to see is people in the psychology field. So whether it be psychotherapists, psychologists or psychiatrists, we're starting to see them start to, you know, get more informed on trauma, whether it's because they've taken courses and are, you know, wanting to be a somatic or traumatic therapist, [00:58:00] or they're just wanting to be informed so that they know they have more of a foundation of knowledge of like What actually might be driving some of these symptoms outside of the idea that this is just a mental health disorder or a mental health condition?

Janey Brown: Like, what could also, you know, on the same breath, it's like, is it borderline personality disorder or is it complex PTSD? We're only now starting to draw correlations between the two and question. Are they the same thing? Because the trauma trauma education has emerged to a point where we can actually see the comparison before it was just borderline.

Janey Brown: And that diagnosis was like, well, is it genetics or is it environment or is it both? But now that we know that there's so much overlap between complex PTSD and borderline, it's sort of like, Hmm, if it's, you know, if they're the same thing, like, is this person just traumatized? Is it really borderline, or are they just traumatized, or were they traumatized as a child?

Janey Brown: So it's very complex, so I don't have the [00:59:00] answers, but trauma is a separate field than psychology, and anyone can become trauma informed, regardless of if you're in the mental health field or not. But for sure, psychologists, psychiatrists, psychotherapists, in my opinion, should do their due diligence and be trauma informed.

Janey Brown: Like, 100%. And if they're not, and you do have trauma, or you suspect you have trauma, you might want to find a mental health professional that is trauma informed. 

De'Vannon Seráphino: Hells of the fuck yeah, well you, you know more than most and look y'all don't be afraid to fire the bitch if they're not giving you life, get you some help from somebody else, you're not stuck with them, you're paying them, not the other way around.

De'Vannon Seráphino: Yeah, yeah, for sure. So that was a damn good breakdown of being trauma informed, yas. 

Janey Brown: Yeah, and that, that information and those certifications, like, Anyone, I mean, at least the three that I did, they were like, you know, weekend courses and invited anyone in the community and it's really, really good education.

Janey Brown: So [01:00:00] anyone can do it. And I, I encourage everyone to do it, like regardless of what field you're in, even if you don't have a job at all, like just go find out this information and expand your brain. You know, you can better understand humanity when you do that. You 

De'Vannon Seráphino: damn well better because you don't want to be getting into like, you know, a business partnership or a romantic relationship.

De'Vannon Seráphino: People who carry these, like, traits and things like that, you I have seen people rob a business partner blind and run off with the money with no conscience. So, these personality traits or disorders that we've discussed today are not just in romantic relationships. They can show up in your kids. Yes.

De'Vannon Seráphino: They can show up in business partners. Girl, 

Janey Brown: it's all over the music industry. Let me tell you, 

De'Vannon Seráphino: and then you can show up in the goddamn music industry to hear about the stories, you know, me to me, movement stuff be happening up in there. And, you know, so wherever you have [01:01:00] power, the people think they have power where you have this sort of shit.

De'Vannon Seráphino: And whenever you have fear, you know, to a fearful person and power over another person is not. The recipe that we want, but yeah, we have that. Okay. So let's lighten it up a bit with these dad jokes. Then I'll let you have the last word and say whatever you want to say. Again, y'all her, her name is Janie Brown.

De'Vannon Seráphino: Her website is janiebrown. com. She's on Facebook, Twitter, Tiki Taki, YouTube, LinkedIn, Instagram. All of that will go in the show. He knows as it always does. Today's dad jokes are courtesy of today. com. Dad joke number one, what did the earthquake say when it was done? What? Sorry, my fault.

Janey Brown: I love that. Oh my God, [01:02:00] that's so good. I'm using that for sure. 

De'Vannon Seráphino: Dad joke number two, why did the football coach go to the bank? Tell me. To get his quarter back. Oh, 

Janey Brown: that's such a good one.

Janey Brown: That's such a good one. 

De'Vannon Seráphino: Dad joke number three. Why did the roofer go to the doctor? Why did he climb off of putting that roof together and go to the doctor? Tell me. Because he had shingles. 

Janey Brown: That's a bar. Who comes up with these? These are so good.

De'Vannon Seráphino: Well, today. com came up with these and I see some overlap on the different websites I get these from, but these websites have like hundreds of them. And that joke, y'all, as I always tell you, it's how you know, if you still can laugh at life, if you can [01:03:00] laugh at this, you need a fucking therapist for damn sure.

De'Vannon Seráphino: You could call, you could call up Janie so she can coach you to the point where you can laugh at a dad joke. Let's not take it seriously. 

Janey Brown: So I'm here for the dad jokes. I love dad 

De'Vannon Seráphino: jokes. Ah, so thank you so much for the time you spent with me today and for going over a bit here. My pleasure. Any last words you have to the world?

De'Vannon Seráphino: You go ahead and speak your piece. Y'all, my website is sexdrugsandjesus. com. Thank you for your donations. Thank you for your attention to, to the website and the blog and all the free education courses on there. Janie Brown, take us 

Janey Brown: home. Thank you, my friend. I think if I was going to leave one last piece of information, it's just self compassion is king.

Janey Brown: You know, shame gets us nowhere. It only drives us further in the hole. Just continue to be kind to yourself and be compassionate to yourself because if you can do that, you can do that for others and the world simply just needs more of [01:04:00] that.

De'Vannon Seráphino: And that's the motherfucking tea. God bless you all. We love you. Thank you, Daini. Thank 

Janey Brown: you.

De'Vannon Seráphino: Thank you all so much for joining us today and for taking some time to invest into yourself and into the lives of your loved ones. Please visit us at sexdrugsandjesus. com and check out our resource page, our spiritual service offerings, my blog, my books, and other writings that God has partnered with me to create.

De'Vannon Seráphino: Find us on any social media platform, stay strong my people, and just remember that everything is going to be alright. [01:05:00]