Episode #139: Evangelical Grooming/Victim Blaming, Spousal Date Rape & The Dehumanization Of Men, With Shana Francesca, Keynote Speaker + Consultant + Workshop Facilitator

INTRODUCTION:

Shana Francesca is a Keynote Speaker, Consultant, Workshop Facilitator and Scholar of Intentional and Ethical Leadership and Living. She is the Founder & CEO of Concinnate LLC. Shana has been interviewed on more than 100 podcasts world wide and has been published in Medium, Authority Magazine, Shoutout LA, Emotional Intelligence Magazine and Emerge Magazine. Shana has worked with clients like the Council for Brain Injury, the Boys and Girls Club and the Mainline Chamber of Commerce. Shana believes our present and future are transformed when we infuse our lives with intention, design our lives and realize the power in continually practicing curiosity, respect and accountability.

https://linktr.ee/ShanaFrancesca

https://linktr.ee/Concinnate

https://www.concinnate.world/

INCLUDED IN THIS EPISODE (But not limited to):

·      Infusing/Designing Your Life With Intention

·      Client: Drugged By Spouse

·      Growing Up With Religious Trauma

·      Church “Grooming”

·      Coupling Curiosity With Respect

·      Checking For Energetic Alignment In Your Life

·      Let Go Of The Need To Have Power Over Others

·      Men: We Need YOU!

·      MEET YOURSELF FOR THE FIRST TIME

CONNECT WITH SHANA FRANCESCA:

Website: https://www.concinnate.world

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Concinnate/

YouTube: https://shorturl.at/gJPQ7

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/concinnate.world/

LinkedIn: https://shorturl.at/zMRTV

TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@shanafrancesca

CONNECT WITH DE’VANNON SERÁPHINO:

Website: https://www.SexDrugsAndJesus.com

Website: https://www.DownUnderApparel.com   

Donate Via PayPal: https://shorturl.at/gq068

CashApp: $DeVannonHubert

Venmo: @DeVannon 

Patreon: https://patreon.com/SDJPodcast

TikTok: https://shorturl.at/nqyJ4

YouTube: https://bit.ly/3daTqCM

Facebook: https://shorturl.at/gqrAV

Instagram: https://shorturl.at/gwAP1

Twitter: https://shorturl.at/oyLZ4

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/devannon

Pinterest: https://shorturl.at/bqB26

Email: DeVannon@SDJPodcast.com

Transcript

Episode #139: Evangelical Grooming/Victim Blaming, Spousal Date Rape & The Dehumanization Of Men, With Shana Francesca, Keynote Speaker + Consultant + Workshop Facilitator

Shana Francesca

De'Vannon Seráphino: [00:00:00] Shanna Francesca, that individual who has survived being raped, being groomed by the evangelical church among Many other pearl clutching atrocities, y'all. Shanna has risen up from the ashes to become a saver of our lives by helping people out of whatever darkness they have found themselves in. This amazing woman is a keynote speaker. She's a consultant.

De'Vannon Seráphino: She's appeared in over 100 podcast episodes. Hear a bit of what Shanna has to say. 

Shana Francesca: The first time I was raped, I was 3. It was by my babysitter's son. At the age of 12, my father forced me to take a chastity pledge in front of my 2000 person church. my client became aware that his husband was dosing him with date rape drug in his food and then was pumping him full of drugs until he nearly [00:01:00] died and then was resuscitating him. So I show up, and the client opens the door, and I see what's behind him in his house. And I just looked at him, and I said, do you need a hug? Are are you okay?

Shana Francesca: And and he was like, I'm not okay, and I do need a hug. 

De'Vannon Seráphino: Thank you so much for watching and listening. Please enjoy the show.

De'Vannon Seráphino: Hello, you beautiful, sweet, delectable, and mindful people out there, and welcome back to the sex drugs in Jesus podcast. I have with me the lovely, beautiful, talented, creative, powerful, triumphant, and overcoming Shanna Francesca with me today. How are you, my lovely? I am good.

De'Vannon Seráphino: How are you? Fan fucking fabulous. It is Today as we're recording, this is Friday, May nineteenth at [00:02:00] about 10 o 8 in the morning. Who knows when this will come out? Maybe, like, another month or 2, but This is what's happening right now.

De'Vannon Seráphino: Y'all Shanna Francheska is a speaker, writer, and entrepreneur. Shanna has been interviewed on more than 60 podcasts worldwide and has been published in Medium, Authority Magazine, and ShoutOut LA. I love shout out LA. Los Angeles is my home. Happy to see you a worldwide girl.

De'Vannon Seráphino: Yes. An emotional Intelligence magazine. She helps people live more joyful and connected lives through the principles of life The design, she's gonna tell us what that is. Shanna believes our present and our future are transformed when we infuse our lives with intention, y'all. We design our lives and realize the power in accepting ourselves as the author of our story.

De'Vannon Seráphino: Talking about taking your power back. Mhmm. I'm gonna get right into [00:03:00] this with you. So in order for you to have this whole mindset about designing your lives and living with with intention. Was there ever a time in your life where you felt like you did not live With intention.

De'Vannon Seráphino: Oh, 

Shana Francesca: for sure. I was born into an abusive household 2 parents who only a few years after I was born, joined evangelical Christianity and then began getting involved in ever more fundamental fundamentalist. Oh, sip of water. Hold on. Fundamentalist sex of evangelical Christianity.

Shana Francesca: And that kind of drove the abuse into a overdrive. When you grow up in an abusive environment and then so your internal your your internal your your home environment is so volatile, and then your external environment is So so [00:04:00] volatile. So I went to the school associated with the church we grew up in. I went to church twice every Sunday, Wednesday nights, sometimes Thursday nights. So, like, my entire life was now encompassed within the church, the evangelical church, and purity culture and that very strict religious environment.

Shana Francesca: And then my home environment was not only strict, it was abusive. So there was no place in my life really for any significant amount of time in which I was able to explore, understand, to to show up as myself or to even know what that felt like for any significant period of time. And so, like, running through the the woods and and using my imagination became the only real times in my life where I could show up as who I wanted to be, but even that became distorted. Right? Because, like, you're so much of your life is encompassed by abuse.

Shana Francesca: And so I I really truly I know in the deepest part of [00:05:00] me that's what led to my work now because I deeply understand and know what it feels like to not be allowed to be your authentic self and to know that that that caged bird feeling, and that it shows up as a spectrum. Right? It's not like you are a hundred percent able to be like, I don't know anybody who's really a hundred percent able to be themselves and grow up in America. And I don't know anyone who, you know, doesn't find some way in their life to show up in some way, allow some part of themselves to go out. But, you know, depending on how we've grown up, depending on Where we are in our life right now, depending on who we are required to spend time with, depends on how authentically we feel like we can show up for ourselves.

De'Vannon Seráphino: I believe it was Maya, Angela, who wrote I know why the caged bird sings. 1 of my favorite books. On the cover of the free book I have on my website, Don't Call Me a Christian, I intentionally put a a bird in a cage [00:06:00] with a door open to it, But the bird is still sitting in the cage, you know, in order to represent the it's like religion in this country is a prison, But the door is open, and you can leave anytime you want, but yet people sat there because the prison is in the mind. Mhmm. And it and it's absolutely, Pun intended mind boggling to me Yeah.

De'Vannon Seráphino: That that so many people walk around free, physically free, but they're in prison in their mind and in their hearts. And yet there's people in prison Who have a greater sense of freedom Mhmm. Cannot physically come and go as they please because happiness is a state of mind more than anything. You that's why we have millionaires who have everything who go and kill themselves because happiness is a state of Yeah. Mind.

De'Vannon Seráphino: Yeah. Religious trauma. Religious trauma. [00:07:00] Religious trauma. Religious trauma.

De'Vannon Seráphino: Waiting for them to add this shit to the DSM because Oh, yeah. 

Shana Francesca: Like I think it's not far away. It's not far away. 

De'Vannon Seráphino: Needs to be. Then the DSM, y'all, is the diastolic What what the fuck fuck 

Shana Francesca: everything?

Shana Francesca: Diagnostic something with an m with an s and then an m. 

De'Vannon Seráphino: Manual. I know it was the answer manual. And and and what it shit. You know?

De'Vannon Seráphino: You know, let me just, 

Shana Francesca: It's what it's what psychologists and therapists use for For understanding the ways in which their clients show up and and how to guide them through the therapeutic and, you know, Medicinal process. Right. I just That's my very layman term use 

De'Vannon Seráphino: description. I just I just know it was a great description. I love the out of it.

De'Vannon Seráphino: Just looked it up, so I'm gonna read it to you. So 1 day when I get, like, a syndicated show and I have producers and everything behind, I won't need to do this. So Networks out there do call me. I [00:08:00] am ready. But in the meantime, it stands for the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders.

De'Vannon Seráphino: We're currently on the fifth edition that came out in 20 13. And this basically then the psychological health world is not considered A real issue until it makes it in here. If there has been scholarly review, though, you already can look around and see when shit's fucked up. Uh-huh. You don't need a whole Scholarly team of doctors with the fuck they were to tell us when some shit's fucked up, which we already know.

De'Vannon Seráphino: Religious trial is real. So y'all need to get with the motherfucking program, but, I did that whole thing. You know, church all day on Sunday. There are Saturday night. Monday night Prayer Wednesday night another service Tuesday night.

De'Vannon Seráphino: You know, it's something every day. Yep. I think some of that was born, especially in the south in, like, the black churches where, you know, my ance my ancestors could not go to white churches and things like that, and they were coming through a lot trying to come about [00:09:00] slavery and trying to get through all that. I think that for their time, that that much church is exactly what they needed. Yes.

De'Vannon Seráphino: But This is 

Shana Francesca: community. It was community. 

De'Vannon Seráphino: It was community. It was safety. It was reaffirmation for them.

De'Vannon Seráphino: Yeah. 

Shana Francesca: It was understanding. It was it was personal choice. It was reclamation of self. You know, I I think the foundations of the black church are very different than the foundations of white church 

De'Vannon Seráphino: in America.

De'Vannon Seráphino: Right. Um, I wish that the black church could have transitioned more into, like, the modern day where people have more electronics. They have more things going on. We don't need to be in church 7 nights a week. We don't have their same struggle, so we don't need that same thing.

De'Vannon Seráphino: I'm curious. You said that you were you you were receiving of abuse and, you know, strict household. Can you get Either from the church or from your household, can you give a, like, a specific [00:10:00] example of what happened? So, like, for me and you don't have to if you don't want to. Sure.

De'Vannon Seráphino: Sure. For me, it was like getting kicked out of church for not being straight. Basically, they called me a pedophile just because they found out I was hanging out in the gay district Houston brought brought no boys up to the church, no rainbow flags. I wasn't rocking a rainbow colored beer during those times. I had a clean, heavy, heavy face.

De'Vannon Seráphino: It was a fearmongering, prejudice, hateful thing. That that is my example of the worst of litters trauma. What is your Yeah. 

Shana Francesca: I mean, first of all, we know that it isn't the LGBTQIA community perpetrating harm against children, Specifically, in the religious community, we know for a fact, statistically, it is cishet white men within within the church. 

De'Vannon Seráphino: Right.

De'Vannon Seráphino: It is. 

Shana Francesca: This year, I think only 1 person part of the LGBTQIA community has been arrested for anything involving minors. [00:11:00] The rest of them were specifically religious and political leaders and and white men, predominantly. Like, 90 percent. Like, 95 percent.

Shana Francesca: It's insanity. So I just wanted to provide that clarity for anyone listening because the world would have us believe a lot of things that are not true. Second, for me, the church was the original groomer, specifically for women. Right? The church well, I think the church also grooms young boys as well.

Shana Francesca: And and for the purposes of the church, I'm speaking in a binary terms even though I know that people exist outside of that binary. But simply for the purpose discussing the church, I'm going to keep with that binary. Young boys are raised in specific ways to control and to be in control and to be submitted to, and they are the reflection of God on earth. They are the head of the household the [00:12:00] way Christ loves the church, on and so forth. And so there's this direct correlation created between maleness and godness.

Shana Francesca: And then the church grooms women to submit themselves to that godliness, in in and in my estimation, is a groomer. That very idea system is grooming women, young girls. And so it wasn't a stretch when so trigger warning for anyone listening before I dive into this. My story, I'm not going to go into particular detail, too much because I think that's unnecessary, but I am going to talk about things that touch on physical violence, sexual assault, and rape. So if that's sensitive to you, you might wanna skip ahead in the conversation a few minutes.

Shana Francesca: The first time I was raped, I was 3. It was by my babysitter's son. As soon as my parents found out, they took appropriate steps, removed me from that environment, got me therapy. It was [00:13:00] actually before they joined joined the event, the local church. Right?

Shana Francesca: And so I want to contrast those 2 experiences. Just about a year or so later, my parents joined the evangelical church, and things started shifting. Within a few years, my father started grooming me. I didn't know it at the time. I do know it now looking back.

Shana Francesca: At the age of 12, my father forced me to take a chastity pledge in front of my 2000 person church. The church never approached me to ask me no no leader approached to ask me if this is what something I wanted to do. My father submitted that this is what's going to happen to the church leadership, and no 1 ever asked me if I wanted this to happen. We simply assumed that because my father wanted it to happen, he was speaking for me. And the thing that I the reason why I didn't want it to happen is because when you look at purity culture, it's virginity.

Shana Francesca: And, technically speaking, I was not a virgin. I've been raped at 3 years old. I no longer had hymen, which is the testament of virginity. Do I believe in virginity anymore? No.

Shana Francesca: Do hymens [00:14:00] exist? Not medically. They do not. Not really. Not everyone has 1.

Shana Francesca: Not everyone's born with, who has a uterus. So I did not wanna take this chastity pledge in front of my thousand person church because, technically, I did not consider myself a virgin, and it was very traumatizing for me to declare this in front of a group of people who had no real right to my private information. I was willing to take the pledge, but I wanted to do it with my family only. But that was refused. That option was refused to me.

Shana Francesca: Funny enough, though, my sister was able to do that. 2 years later, she was able to do it privately. This is irrelevant to the this is relevant to the story because 3 years later, my father tried to rape me, my father sexually. He assisted in sexually assaulting me, but I did get away. I ran away.

Shana Francesca: And I did not tell people for 3 years. So no 1 knew except my little sister but no 1 knew for quite a while. And my little sister only told her about a year later, because my [00:15:00]relationship with my father obviously became extremely volatile. And while on vacation at a Christian retreat, he was trying to control me because he saw the boy flirting with me and got very possessive. And I told him to go fuck himself quite literally out loud.

Shana Francesca: I was 15 years old, and my sister was like, you can't talk dad that way. And I said, yes. The fuck I can. He tried to rape me. And, should I have said that to my younger sister?

Shana Francesca: No. But I was 15, and I was a fire breathing dragon, and I was fucking and I had no support in that. And the thing is that I the the reality is it's so telling that as a 15 year old girl, I felt no support, and there was no 1 in my life that I felt I could go to and had the right to feel wrong about what had happened and to gain support and the safety that I needed to get away from my father. When I when the church was made aware 3 years later, when I told my mother and the church was made aware, the church did absolutely nothing to to hold my father [00:16:00] accountable. I think they removed him from some volunteering he was doing, but there was no reporting it to the authorities.

Shana Francesca: There was no me and providing me the safety that I needed to get away from him. There was none of that. As a matter of fact, they just asked me to write him a letter and said they would give it to him, except they never gave it to him. So some pastor somewhere has a detailed description of how I feel about my father sexually assaulting me. There was other instances inside of the church of lack of accountability of them being told about abuse that was happening.

Shana Francesca: There was a father that we knew in detail that he was beating his children to the point that he was knocking them to the ground and kicking them once they were trying to protect themselves on the ground. This was made aware to the church. The the mother tried to go to the police. The the the church told them that if they went to the police, they would be ousted from the community. When my when my church was made aware and my father admitted what he did to me, they told my mother that it occurred because she was not fucking my father nearly [00:17:00] enough and that perhaps I had flirted with my father.

Shana Francesca: Mhmm. And that she should have been a better wife, and then he wouldn't have turned to me in a moment Yes. And so when I say that it's religious trauma, I mean that the I actively mean that church participated in not only perpetuating harm, but per perpetuating the power and the ability for men to continue to harm by not being a part of a system of accountability and by not supporting victims and instead victim blaming. 

De'Vannon Seráphino: Well, what I wanna say is this, first of all, I'm glad you were able to pull strength out of all that happened to you. Okay.

De'Vannon Seráphino: I'm glad you're able to pull refinement. I'm glad it [00:18:00] was able to build your character And to make you the incredible and strong, beaming, and shining human who I have the pleasure of conversing with on this day. It didn't happen now, And and we may spend a lifetime healing and dealing with some things, but we bear the fruits of the of the things that people did to us when we're able to let it go tend to and be determined and make something good come out of it. That way, they don't keep the victory 3 over us. 

Shana Francesca: Right.

Shana Francesca: Yeah. Unfortunately, I do think that trauma separates us from our most powerful self. Mhmm. But in healing that trauma, we can become a more powerful version. Unfortunately, so many people do not have the support they need to be able to reconnect to self, right, to heal that trauma and reconnect to self.[00:19:00]

Shana Francesca: And so, you know, I I wanna say to all of the people who are out there, you know, I hope that this podcast in some way helps to support you In your own healing wherever you are in that. 

De'Vannon Seráphino: And, also, they have your your coaching services and everything that's available on your side on cons consonate, which we're gonna talk about next. Uh-huh. Now that you've given us the pathway that led you down this path, we're gonna talk about what Shauna can actually do for you all. Yeah.

De'Vannon Seráphino: Before we get on to that and and then she and like I said at the beginning, she's gonna tell us what life design is. Just wanna say that your church sounds like sounded like, the church that you used to be a part of sounds like super Catholic, you know, in the way that they Kinda like pretend sexual abuse isn't happening. It's I've heard of this happening to women in other churches, though, unfortunately, as they say, What? Absolute power corrupts absolutely? Absolutely.

De'Vannon Seráphino: [00:20:00] Abso fucking lutely. And so, You know, the same way that, you know, the church threw me out or they treated you this way, people who are unchecked, You know, just just just have a way of just making shit up as they go and feeling like there's not gonna be any accountability. Because there isn't. Right. Well, not yet.

De'Vannon Seráphino: But as the Bible says, when the when the lord wakes up from his slumber as though he's been sleeping, he will come down here and enter into judgment with people who have been getting away with shit for far too long. It's just all things in its time. I have a problem with people who have kids, and it's almost like they just wanted to create little weak beings that they can dominate and control. I really feel like people have children a lot of times or Most of the time or some of the times or whatever. For selfish reasons.

De'Vannon Seráphino: Yeah. I was gonna say it's just for selfish reasons, and It's not about the kid. You're having a child [00:21:00] for you to make you feel better, to make you feel happy. Jesus actually said to mourn when someone's born and to rejoice when they die. You know, it's the reverse.

De'Vannon Seráphino: Reason I will not have a a phys a biological child. In another 10 years, I'm gonna go down to the store and buy me 1 I'll probably be getting 1 off of Amazon by then, and I'm gonna get me I'm just gonna, like, I'm gonna adopt the kid who's already here in the midst of all of this shit and help them. I'm not gonna create new life in this chaos. So, Um, yeah.

De'Vannon Seráphino: Her website is 

Shana Francesca: Consonate 

De'Vannon Seráphino: dot world. Consonate dot world. I don't know why the fuck I struggle saying that. For those For those of you who never heard the word consonant before, I think it's so crazy. It's not almost sounds like pollinate, but not really.

De'Vannon Seráphino: It is spring, and I got my flowers and shit planted in the back. So It says that the definition from dictionary dot com says to arrange or blend together skillfully as parts or elements Put together in a [00:22:00] harmonious, precisely appropriate, or elegant manner. And, yes, Jan is on Facebook, LinkedIn, YouTube, Tikki Tokki, Instagram, all that will go in the show. We know it's as it always does. So talk to us about this life design.

De'Vannon Seráphino: Tell us what consonate dot world is, what do you do? 

Shana Francesca: So my work center out centers around intentional living and leadership. So for me, life design is intentional living. And what does that mean? So I've distilled it down to a formula.

Shana Francesca: Right? And why a formula? I don't know. It just works. I I was on a podcast where 1 of the host is finance guy, and he proposed we create that's a formula.

Shana Francesca: And the formula we came up with was okay, but I've kept refining it. And so I've gotten it to the place where it is. And who remembers PEMDAS? Parentheses, exponents, multiplication, division, something in subtraction. Anyway, point is so it's be curious [00:23:00] plus be respectful in parenthesis times practicing accountability equals intentional living and leadership.

Shana Francesca: Right? So for me, intentional living is life design, and intentional living leadership falls right alongside of it. It's about It could because wrapped up about being curious, about being respectful, about practicing accountability, all those things happen together. They're woven together. It's not like be curious, then be respectful, then practice accountability.

Shana Francesca: They're all happening at the same time. They're all holding each other. They're all growing together like an ecosystem. And I love National Geographic's definition of an ecosystem. It's it's long, but it it ends with, like, a bubble of Right?

Shana Francesca: And so being a leader is being, like, guardian of and to help to foster a bubble of life. Right? And to do that, we have to stay in a place of of curiosity rather than expert. The minute that we put ourselves in a position [00:24:00] of expert is the minute that we are no longer able to truly learn and to challenge our frame of reference and to understand that our particular world view is very narrow and Right? That's where curiosity comes in.

Shana Francesca: Getting like, and I and I talk about in my workshops. I have a couple of coming up in June and July depending on when this comes out. People can can register for those. I talk about specifically the fact that we can create curiosity practices, and it has to start with things that are really accessible. And who we are in private bleeds into who we are in public.

Shana Francesca: So there's a direct correlation to designing our lives and being a great leader. You know, being intentional in our private life and being intentional out there. And 1 of my favorite things to do when practicing curiosity is to do curiosity walks, And that could be something in nature. It could be in your in your business. Right?

Shana Francesca: You walk around and connect to something new, someone talk to them, get to know them, dive in. [00:25:00] Right? Do some follow-up research. Really invest in the world around you and understanding your part in it and that part that other people play, right, so that you can decenter yourself. Second is being respectful.

Shana Francesca: Being curious without respect is in is intrusive. Right? Just walking up to someone's face and not having earned their respect or their trust and asking and demanding their story and think you're owed it, their story, their time. That is intrusive. Right?

Shana Francesca: So we have to couple curiosity with respect. And then all of that is multiplied and made more powerful by practicing accountability. And practicing accountability really is a fundamental part of my work because I saw what lack of accountability does. It takes it takes a group of people who are supposed to be coming together for the purpose of spiritual growth and turns it into a cult. Right?

Shana Francesca: When there's lack of accountability, when there is a godlike, reverence, respect. I don't know what you call it. There's [00:26:00] godlike reverence where where people become sacrosanct is where you slip from a group of people together for spiritual growth to cult. Right? And that's what I experienced, evangelical Christian cult.

Shana Francesca: So practicing accountability is a deep and important part of my work, and and I tell people consistently that the group of people that surrounds you has to be very different than how you grew up. It needs to be as diverse as the world you live in. Right? It needs to be diverse in ethnic background, race, gender belief systems, and neurodiversity is deeply important in that as well. The thing that you must agree on, right, that everyone who surrounds you and you are held accountable by, thing that you must all agree on is basic human rights for all people, bodily autonomy for all people.

Shana Francesca: You must recognize and understand that no being should be objectified or dehumanized. That must do the basis of [00:27:00] understanding for the people that you surround yourself with. Right? But practicing accountability with a diverse array of people around you is deeply necessary and important. So that's my work.

Shana Francesca: That's what I do. 

De'Vannon Seráphino: Okay. That's that's that's that's that's that's that you that you have. So Let's get more let's get more granular with it. So y'all, if you go to her website, which is a beautiful website, There's, like, life design services offered, and I love the price range on them.

De'Vannon Seráphino: I saw as low as 40 dollars. It looks like it was, like, over 45 minutes Yeah. If I'm in a session with you over Zoom there's group counseling sessions too, then there's, like, The executive sessions her group sessions go for, I think, 3 months. How often do people meet for those 3 months? 

Shana Francesca: We meet once a week for 4 weeks out of the month.

Shana Francesca: So it's a 5 week month. We're only meeting 4 of those 5 weeks. So we meet 12 [00:28:00] times over 3 months. 

De'Vannon Seráphino: Yeah. Times over 3 months, and the the price price range on that was, like, 4 50, I saw.

De'Vannon Seráphino: Yeah. 

Shana Francesca: I think yeah. I think it's at 600 now, but it's it's still pretty affordable. 

De'Vannon Seráphino: Right. Because some some of the other people who I've talked to, I've come across, you know, I've seen, like, 2, 300 dollars for 1 hour, You know, with with with certain people out there Yep.

De'Vannon Seráphino: I guess, who consider themselves experts or whatever what you were or what you were saying. You know, I've never really heard anyone disavow term, but I love the way that you that you did it since it since it does imply like a like a cessation of learning. Mhmm. Once you reach that level. Yeah.

De'Vannon Seráphino: On your website, you also have because in your history, you also have an interior design degree. Yes. I on your website, you show examples of, like, from small to extra large design space. How does that Is that a service you still offer, and how does that infuse to into what you do? 

Shana Francesca: Yeah.

Shana Francesca: Absolutely. Great question. So, yes, [00:29:00] my background is in interior design, And, yes, I offer an array of options for people to connect with me to learn from me, from group workshops to group coaching too. And, yes, my private coaching, 1 on 1 coaching is 300 dollars an hour. But I I insist on yeah.

Shana Francesca: That's private 1 on 1. Right? But that's, you know, that's something where, you know, I insist on having group coaching that's way more affordable. And I insist on having workshops that are even more affordable because I believe in democratization of information. Right?

Shana Francesca: And so I I I believe in gay giving people access to the information in ways that are palatable, accessible for them while still honoring my own work and my own, you know, my own wisdom. Right? But, yes, interior design is still an aspect of my work. I don't take on nearly as many clients but there's a there's always been a deep element to the way that I [00:30:00] approached interior design. There's always been this very psychological aspect of recognizing that our physical environments are oftentimes reflections of our beliefs about ourselves.

Shana Francesca: They are vision boards for our life if we want them to be and if we accept them as such. Right? We spend 2 thirds of our life inside of our home. We spend about, you know, a good portion of the other third of our life in our office buildings or office office spaces. Right?

Shana Francesca: And so it's really important that we recognize that the mental toll that those spaces take on us if they are not representative, if they are not benefiting us if they are not supporting us rather than us supporting them. Right? And then and what do I mean by that? I mean that our physical environment should be a reflection of our authentic self and not a function of marketing, not what we saw on HGTV, not what someone else did with their home via Pinterest. It doesn't mean we can't take elements of the things that we see and incorporate them, but we should be asking [00:31:00] ourselves, is this tied to who I really am and how I want to be seen and how I feel in this world?

Shana Francesca: Does this energetically connect who I really am as opposed to I think it I like it and it's pretty. We can think of something as beautiful and not need to own it. I want people to sit with that for a minute. Right? We can think we can know something to be beautiful, and we can appreciate it outside of the energy of our direct circle.

Shana Francesca: Right? I love the Mona Lisa. I think it's beautiful, but does it hang in my house? Does a print of it hang in my house? Do I Can do I interact within our regular basis?

Shana Francesca: No. Right? There are beautiful buildings that I appreciate. I don't need to to have them. So much of our culture teaches us if like it we should have it.

Shana Francesca: Right? And that doesn't necessarily have a direct correlation. It can, but it does not have to. And I think we have to check and see and recognize that every single thing in our lives is made of energy. Literally, physics tells us we are all made of energy.

Shana Francesca: And so we need to ask ourselves before we purchase something, [00:32:00] before we use our money, which is an indication of how we have spent our time, the energy we've put into our time to get that money. Right? And we're ask ourselves whether or not we are gonna spend that money on something. Does it energetically align with us first. Right?

Shana Francesca: Are we actually going to use it? Is it really necessary? Does it support who we actually are, right, and who we are becoming. And so that has always been an aspect of my work. And at some point in time And I have incredible clients that I've worked with as an interior designer over the years, judges, lawyers, partners, and firms, heads of heads of medical departments at prestigious institutions.

Shana Francesca: And and 1 of them looked at me and he said, Shana, I tell everybody you're my life coach and my interior designer. And I was like, you do? Oh, so you get the coaching part. You are connecting to it. I just didn't think that my clients really recognized it in the way that I wanted them [00:33:00] to.

Shana Francesca: And as soon as they did, it was like I gave myself permission to take on that in a more pervasive way because I can through speaking to people this way, through podcast, through I'm also a keynote speaker. I facilitate workshops. Through that, I can touch a heck of a lot more people than I can as strictly an interior designer. So, yes, interior design is still part of my work because it's part of our lives, because it directly affects our mental health, but it is a much smaller portion of what I do now. I only take on 3 clients packs depending on the size of projects, because so much of my time is spent, you know, speaking in front of people now.

De'Vannon Seráphino: Well, that's very good. So then so then let me be clear. So on your website, the the 40 dollar options and the 60 dollar ones, that's for, like, a group workshop for you? Right. Okay.

De'Vannon Seráphino: Okay. So then thank you for correcting me on on that. So so can you so [00:34:00] you mentioned a couple of your clients. Can you give me an example of, like, you know, of course, that mentioned in their name, like, a before and after. Like, a person came to you with this problem, you worked with them, and then these were the results.

Shana Francesca: Yeah. Absolutely. So a client of mine was in a deeply abusive relationship for a long time. They had been together for 15 years, about 5 years in, things did. And and I think it was not soon after they got married.

Shana Francesca: So, He my client is the head of a medical department at a prestigious university. I mean, at a prestigious hospital. And his partner or husband was, a a pediatric nurse in the ER or something like that. He was a pediatric nurse. I don't I don't remember if he was near or not.

Shana Francesca: Doesn't really matter. Point is that they both had, you know, medical background. And at some point in time in the relationship, [00:35:00] my client became aware that his husband was dosing him with date rape drug in his food and then was pumping him full of drugs until he nearly died and then was resuscitating him. I'm smiling and I'm laughing, but I'm laughing because it's cruel, not not because it's funny. And when I was brought into the house after the husband had left.

Shana Francesca: The abusive husband had had been by court order removed from the house. I didn't know all of that. I didn't know any of the story. I had just been called by a friend of mine who's a realtor, and he said, hey. I have this client, and I know it's you that needs to work with him.

Shana Francesca: And I was like, okay. Great. So I show up, and the client opens the door, and I see what's behind him in his house. And I just looked at him, and I said, do you need a hug? [00:36:00] Are are you okay?

Shana Francesca: And and he was like, I'm not okay, and I do need a hug. And I knew this was going to be a tremendous labor of love and something I had never taken on before, but that's not that's not unusual for me. I I take on projects that challenge me the same way I ask other people to do it. Right? Because if it doesn't challenge us, it's not changing us.

Shana Francesca: We're not growing. There was furniture, clothing, everything you can imagine piled up in this house everywhere. It was not so much a order situation. Maybe it was. I don't know.

Shana Francesca: I'm not a psychiatrist. I can't diagnose someone. But it was a difficult situation. You could tell that there was definitely the physical environment was not okay. I had myself and a team of 7 people come in and clean out this house.

Shana Francesca: It took us a day to clean out 1 and a half floors of this 4 story house. There was drug paraphernalia [00:37:00] everywhere. There was double and triple bolts and locks on doors, like, padlocks on doors. There was chains coming down from the dealing there was drug paraphernalia and needle. I mean, we found dozens and dozens of needles, all kinds of drugs.

Shana Francesca: And this was all by the husband who was forcibly removed. But the husband who was left my client who was left in the house, it was emotionally and physically he was not able to remove all of these things. It was too close to him. He had been abused by his husband to the point that, like, mentally, he was not okay, and he could not go through this house and clean it out on his own. There was just no way.

Shana Francesca: And so we went through. We cleaned it up, got the house painted, got the floors cleaned, got the whole house scrubbed top to bottom, you know, donated what we could, got the drug paraphernalia, took all the padlocks off, you know, started to to get the that furniture placed in ways that felt really good, like a like a normal, you know, house so that he could actually use it and [00:38:00]interact with it. The dog we got the dogs some help because he has 2 dogs and got them some help and got the backyard cleaned out for them. We addressed so many aspects of this house. And then within 6 months, he started dating again.

Shana Francesca: He started having people over the house. He started telling me stories about how he was reconnecting thing with people in his life. He got the pool cleaned and set up so that he could he could have barbecues. He he got, you know, he got his life back. And I know this is an extreme example, and not every client most clients I work with are not this extreme, but I have no problem taking on extreme.

Shana Francesca: I have no problem diving into the difficult parts of people's lives and helping them and empowering them to make sense of them and them to live a healthier, better life because our physical environment is so deeply important. Once we cleaned out that house, it was like he was able to clean out his mind. He was able to let go of [00:39:00] the demons and the ghosts that were trapped inside of that house. He was able to transmute that energy. We saged the house for him.

Shana Francesca: You know, got music playing, got things set up. You know what I mean? Like, we were able to help change the energy in that physical environment by changing the the way the environment itself. We will be able to reset that stage for him so that his home could be supportive and and help him to foster the story that he wanted his life to tell moving forward. 

De'Vannon Seráphino: Well, girl, we can just we can just call you.

De'Vannon Seráphino: Wait. 

Shana Francesca: I you cut out for a second. What'd you say? 

De'Vannon Seráphino: I said, girl, we could just go ahead and call you the exorcist. Right.

De'Vannon Seráphino: Kicking demon ass and such. And so so that is a super, super powerful example, but it also goes back to what I was saying earlier how oh, like, happiness is a state of mind. You know, if he had a 4 story house and all of this, then he's clearly wasn't, you know, broke. [00:40:00]You know? And so but, nevertheless, he was unhappy.

De'Vannon Seráphino: Uh-huh. You know? It sounds like I wonder if that guy he was tied up with was a It was a narcissist, do you think? 

Shana Francesca: Oh, yeah. For sure.

Shana Francesca: Yeah. Yeah. Unfortunately, the the ex husband, is no longer with us. He ended up overdosing and smashing into a tree just a few months after I started working with my client. So losing control over his partner in that way.

Shana Francesca: And me coming in and cleaning him out of that house sent him in a way that, you know, I wish hadn't gone that direction. Well, 

De'Vannon Seráphino: I'm gonna reiterate something. You know, I I released a show the other week when I was down in Mexico. I went down there to do some psychedelics, to heal from the 5 years I spent with, you know, my my narcissistic ex boyfriend. [00:41:00] I began to emerge into a pattern of forgiveness and looking at him with pity.

De'Vannon Seráphino: And so I thought and I and I released this episode. I went and researched ways that people with narcissistic this personality disorder can actually fix them fix repair, heal, whatever the fuck they want. Bitch, you stop doing the evil shit you're doing and actually start enjoying your life. So I did a I did a whole episode, and, like, my emotions like, on some days, I'm, like, praying to God to help them. And on some days, I'm praying to God to smite them.

De'Vannon Seráphino: You know? I'm like, how could because they're people, but they're so fucking evil. It's just like Yeah. And so I really tow the line back and forth. Yeah.

De'Vannon Seráphino: But I read the whole episode pretty much dedicated to warning them that their ways are gonna catch up with them if they don't Stop. Yeah. Y'all still have a chance to turn around. As long as you were breathing, you can start all over again. I quote that Dave Koss song all the time.

De'Vannon Seráphino: Yeah. And so it's unfortunate that he met a bitter end. I was thinking before I was thinking [00:42:00] before we got on this show about about Judas and Jesus in the in the in the traditional Christian Bible, you know You know you know, the way the level of deception, You know, that that Judas has to have to be able to smile in Jesus's face every day knowing what he was plotting behind his back, knowing that he was really trying to hurt him. Yeah. Hasn't hadn't done him anything wrong.

De'Vannon Seráphino: You know, I'm saying this now to switch gears to not to encourage the narcissistic people, but to encourage the people who have suffered at their hands. You know? The you know, God used Judas to to, to ultimately bring Jesus into his purpose. Now what Judas did to Jesus cause him to be crucified, so he went down, but he also got back up. You know?

De'Vannon Seráphino: Oh, and, unfortunately, in this story too, [00:43:00] Judas meets a tragic end, you know, too. You know? So, again, there's your warning narcissistic people. But for those who have suffered, baby, you can I know? When you've gone through that, you don't know who you are and you feel like you have died, but there is resurrection power available to you.

De'Vannon Seráphino: Yeah. You might need, you know, Shauna to come in. You might need to have a conversation with her. Things may need to change. I know when I went through it, everything went down.

De'Vannon Seráphino: My finances suffered. I had filed bankruptcy because I wasn't there to tend to my businesses. My home got all dirty and shit. You know, everything, you know, can come undone depending on your state of mind. Yes.

De'Vannon Seráphino: And you it's difficult to come about of a narcissistically abusive situation by yourself. You know, I need it all to can't. And so Yeah. You really can't. I'm happy to see that your work was able to help somebody who was a clear victim of narcissistic abuse to come up out of that.

Shana Francesca: Yeah. I I deep I think [00:44:00] the thing is that we are taught so much in this society to pull ourselves up by our bootstraps, But we are not meant to do this life alone. We are meant to live in community with 1 another. We are meant to do this as community. We are meant to live as an ecosystem.

Shana Francesca: The Earth is an ecosystem. That we community is a sub, like, is is a sub ecosystem. Right? It is an ecosystem of itself within another ecosystem. Right?

Shana Francesca: When we recognize that we are meant to live in community with 1 another. There is no need to be self conscious. There is no need to be insecure. Secure. Why?

Shana Francesca: Because you don't need to be all the things. You know that you aren't meant to be all the things. You powerfully embrace who you are and what you are meant to be, and you know that other people come alongside you and that they have their own strengths and that your strengths and their strengths are complimentary. I don't really believe in weaknesses. I believe that what what we are not strong in is because someone else is and that we are meant to do this life together.

Shana Francesca: In an ecosystem, there is no homogeneity. Right? There is not a whole bunch of things doing the [00:45:00] exact same thing. You have all different elements working together. Right?

Shana Francesca: Complementing each other. Right? And so that's the thing is that we have to recognize that we are powerful all all by ourselves. We do not need to have power over others. Power over others is a weird concept.

Shana Francesca: We are meant to live in community together. And when we especially when we're going through healing. A deep part of our healing is recognizing the ways in which we are not living in community together, and we need to form community around ourselves. And if you want a great resource on that, Mia Bergson's book, How We Show Up, is an incredible book about community and specifically about the clearing of relationship, which I love the way that she describes that of this stepping outside of this heteronormative understanding of the world that we currently exist in. 

De'Vannon Seráphino: Speaking of speaking of Speaking of insecurity and things like that, when when we had met before to kinda do a little chitchat before [00:46:00] you know, actually doing the actual interview we're doing today, you had made a offered a perspective that you see this sort of problem, like, in men more, and I took a note Because society stifles emotion, which which breeds lack of empathy and lack of accountability.

De'Vannon Seráphino: Yeah. Do you care to explain how you come up with that or what you've seen? 

Shana Francesca: Wait. Say that 1 more time. I wanna take that 

De'Vannon Seráphino: in.

De'Vannon Seráphino: We were talking about narcissism, insecurity, the need for validation, and all of the weaknesses It's like that. And and and you were saying you see it more in men because society stifles emotion, which breeds a lack of empathy and lack of accountability. 

Shana Francesca: Yeah. I see that men are raised in a way which dehumanizes them. Right?

Shana Francesca: Which requires men to abandon connection to their emotions because all human beings feel all things. We all feel the same range of emotions. It's [00:47:00] just that men are disallowed from actually connecting to their emotions, working through them. You know, they become stagnated. They become bottled up.

Shana Francesca: Right? Because you're not allowed to express them. You're not allowed to show them. You're not allowed to actually feel your feelings in that way. And and anger becomes the primary expression of all emotion.

Shana Francesca: And then, you know, by doing so, by being disconnected from your emotions, how can you honor, other people who are connected to their emotions. Right? You see someone else expressing their full range of emotions, and there's this anger because they are and you aren't, and there's because you don't understand. Right? Because you haven't been allowed to feel your feelings.

Shana Francesca: You haven't been allowed to explore what self regulation looks like for those feelings. All these things lead to, you know, men not being able to show up as full human beings and be truly connected to each other, to their partners, to their family members, so on and so [00:48:00] forth. Right? And so, you know, I I know that a huge part of my work is, you know, connecting with and empowering men to recognize that they have to feel their feelings and to and to and to, and to hold space for that. Right?

Shana Francesca: Because I think especially some women, but I think many this has changed for many women. But there are still some women who, aren't used to men expressing emotions and also expect a certain level of emotional intelligence when it comes to expressing emotion that men don't have because they haven't been practicing expressing their emotions the way that we have since we were children. Like, women people raised as girls. And so, you know, there's this deep interconnection of men needing to learn and not expecting the free labor of people raise as women but [00:49:00] also creating space for themselves and each other to learn emotional intelligence and to be able to show up and to and to embrace their own humanity so that they can embrace each other's and be true part of community and no longer feel like they've gotta be just a large private part. I can say bad words on here.

Shana Francesca: A large you know, have a large penis, a large bank account, and that's it. Right? Like, you you get to show up and need to show up as whole human beings. It's just having a large bank account and a large penis isn't cutting it anymore. Right?

Shana Francesca: And and as as somebody who is who is heterosexual, I want to be in a relationship with a man. I just can't. I just can't because there are so few men who are actually healthy enough to contribute to my life. Because if you aren't contributing to my life in an equal way that I'm contributing to yours, And you aren't allowed in my life, period. Right?

Shana Francesca: Other than professionally, which you can pay me to help you. [00:50:00]

De'Vannon Seráphino: But but I know all of that is right. My god. Boys, boys, boys, like the woman is saying, you're more than a bicep and a hard dick. Pay attention to the voices in your head where you're learning this information from.

De'Vannon Seráphino: I encourage you to put that damn phone down. Yeah. Your social media. Stop stop because everything that you do imprints upon your subconscious and your conscious mind, You think it does or not? In my relationship, my my ex boyfriend was so insecure.

De'Vannon Seráphino: Cure. And Yeah. He was a trim dude. He used to run track and everything. I thought he was fine as fuck, but that never changed anything because in his head, He would compare himself to other men, and I'm like, maybe you should stop looking at hot guys on Instagram reels if you're deal dealing [00:51:00] with insecurity.

De'Vannon Seráphino: That's not going to help you, but he would never listen to me. And, don't let yourself get caught in a psychological loop, these negative neuropathways. The neuropathway is basically you running on autopilot not realize that you're running on autopilot, and you're doing on autopilot that is hurting you. So Sean and I invite you to meet yourself for the first time perhaps Yeah. Mind, body, soul, spirit as you were created and designed, to be.

De'Vannon Seráphino: Yeah. You're learning how to be a human. You can't learn that from necessarily other humans. You have to gain your spiritual sense of self, your psychological sense of self. And if you deny any part of you, you will be out of balance, and then you'll never Masculinity and manhood is not about performance.

De'Vannon Seráphino: It's not about proving yourself. It's about telling the truth, Being faithful to the people around you, being respectful consistent. Being consistent, being accountable, saying you're [00:52:00] sorry when you're wrong, and not feeling like there's problem doing it now. That is real manhood. Not pounding pussies and assholes and mouths, not coming all over town and and squirt the seam and every goddamn where and and and lifting all the fucking weights you can.

De'Vannon Seráphino: Okay. This is not pop out the damn seller. This is not WWF. This is not none of that None of that bullshit. This is real fucking life, and we need you men to actually show up.

De'Vannon Seráphino: Yeah. Because we 

Shana Francesca: need you. That's the thing. We need you, and we want you. We brave your presence in the world.

Shana Francesca: This is an ecosystem that you are part of and you have taken yourself out of it. We need you. I need you to hear me when I say that we need you, not who the world has told you you should show up But we need the actual you. We desperately need you, and we are begging you to be you, but you don't know how. You don't have the tools, and you can't listen to other unhealthy men who are just reinforcing your [00:53:00] very specific perspective on the world who are also not showing up.

Shana Francesca: You can't ask other unhealthy people how to be healthy. Right? You can't ask that. We need you. So I I I'm gonna say whether you hire me or don't hire me, whether you just buy the books I recommend or whatever it is, please please find a way to stop watching all the things that you're watching because the algorithms know what you wanna see.

Shana Francesca: They're gonna keep showing you the same feedback loops. I need you to pick up a book. I need you to start with something. Start with bell hooks. Start with the the will to change.

Shana Francesca: Start with with oh, All About Love from bell hooks. Start with start with something. Start with Mia Birdsongs How We Show Up. Start with anything that that takes you out of your specific frame of reference and calls you into your humanity and calls you into a place of community and calls you into your actual power and and and empowers you to show up because we need you. [00:54:00] We we aren't trying to move forward without you.

Shana Francesca: You're forcing us to. You're forcing us to. 

De'Vannon Seráphino: Yeah. It feels like you were right in the middle of my class really but, like, the way you just described that, I hated leaving him. You know, after 5 years, I want it, and I want it.

De'Vannon Seráphino: Like you said, I wanted him. I didn't want what he could do for me. I didn't want I didn't want how good he was in the bedroom. I didn't want I didn't I want it. I didn't want And perform.

De'Vannon Seráphino: I wanted him. I looked over every floor he had, but him. It wasn't about what he could do or how he looked or didn't look. I just wanted him. Yeah.

De'Vannon Seráphino: I desperately wanted him, but I had to let him go, and I hated doing it. So we will leave you if we have to. Yeah. You know, boys, don't don't get it twisted. And like you said, I'm single too because of the same reason, and I realized I like nice things.

De'Vannon Seráphino: I like the very best. And if I want the very best in [00:55:00] the mail in this day and time, that means I'm gonna have to fucking wait for it. But the the more expensive something is and the more costly, the less of them they make. And it's you can go out and get a cheap Walmart man any day or just find someone to fool around with, but we're not about that life because we've elevated our existence over here. Yeah.

De'Vannon Seráphino: But 

Shana Francesca: there doesn't need to be any Walmart men. There doesn't need to be. Right? It's a choice. It's a choice.

Shana Francesca: You get to choose who you are and how you show up. So elevate. Elevate. Show up. We need you.

De'Vannon Seráphino: Elevate. Hire this woman I recommended, and she's a female, but that doesn't mean that she cannot speak to males. Is it because, you know, female feminine energy is a is a large part of growing masculine energy, and that's the way it goes. You know you know, take that mindset you have, boys, about going to see a massage therapist. I'm a licensed massage therapist.

De'Vannon Seráphino: Some of you will not allow a male to work on you. You only want a female to work on you. I get it. Whatever. Look at it the same way.

De'Vannon Seráphino: You know? She can [00:56:00] she can upgrade you. So I'm gonna put let let let's let's lighten it up a bit with my dad jokes. Yes. I'm excited about this part.

De'Vannon Seráphino: Yeah. We just have a couple of minutes left, y'all, and thank you so much for staying over the hour. We just have a few minutes left. And So the new thing I'm doing at the end of my interviews dad jokes at this thing is a great way to lighten it up because the content of the Drugs and Jesus podcast is only gonna get heavier and more intense as the years spin on. So dad joke number 1.

De'Vannon Seráphino: Yes. Why did the electrician plant light bulbs? I don't know. Why? Because he wanted to grow a power plant.

Shana Francesca: Oh, that that was I should have gotten that 1. Okay. Okay. 

De'Vannon Seráphino: Okay. Yeah.

De'Vannon Seráphino: I just bad [00:57:00] joke numero dos. Why did Karen, yes, that Karen, press control, alt, delete? She wanted the manager. Pretty much, she wanted to see the task manager. Yeah.

De'Vannon Seráphino: You got 1. 1. I got 1. Nailed it. Yes.

De'Vannon Seráphino: Okay. Last 1. What do you call oh, and these are the majority of these are coming from buzzfeed dot com, by the way. Quote my source. What do you call a cow in an earthquake?

De'Vannon Seráphino: A milkshake. Yeah. You got it. Hell, 2 for 3. Nice.

De'Vannon Seráphino: You've done better than anyone else that I've asked. Although I think this is, like, the second or third time I've done this, but I have a feeling that your numbers that your numbers are gonna stay high. This this lets me know that you have a relaxed enough a mind and that you have enough humor in you and a and a joyous, [00:58:00] colorful way of looking at life that you're able to get 2 out of 3 dad jokes. Dad jokes of the litmus test at how seriously someone takes themselves, and you scored high today. Yeah.

De'Vannon Seráphino: I don't 

Shana Francesca: take myself that seriously. If you do, then you fall into expert, And 

De'Vannon Seráphino: that's no fun. No fun. Now you get to wear suit and tie and everything. Can have your titties out.

De'Vannon Seráphino: Oh, nobody. So did you have any jokes to contribute? You don't have to? I don't. Okay.

De'Vannon Seráphino: No joke at all. So any last words the world? Any encouragement? Anything you'd like to say? Just 

Shana Francesca: get curious.

Shana Francesca: Make a practice of it. Come across something new and hold space for it, dive in and get to know it. Right? Because the more that we get to know the world around us, the more we get to know ourselves, And the more we get to take up space beautifully and intentionally in this world and create space for others to do the same. Right?

Shana Francesca: Because we know what belongs to us and what is meant for us and isn't. And what isn't meant for us is meant for [00:59:00] someone else. And so we stop taking over the space that isn't meant for us, and we and we we empower others to take up that space. 

De'Vannon Seráphino: So beautiful. I hope y'all set in in Shannon's words and let them seep into your soul in everything.

De'Vannon Seráphino: We wanna be in the right place at the right time and not in the wrong place where where we're not supposed to be. Her website is con consonant dot world. I think that's a beautiful, ending. No no dot net, no dot com, consonant dot world. It lets me know, Like I said at the beginning, you're a global woman.

De'Vannon Seráphino: She's on Facebook, LinkedIn, YouTube, Tikki Tokki at Instagram, and all this will go in the show notes as it As it always does, feel free to reach out to her and message her about her services, about her advice, maybe about these books that she's recommended, access the website along to that x y chromosome, you know, in your life who just seems like he's never gonna grow up, but [01:00:00] there will be no Peter Panning. There'll be no Toys R Us kids because we need you, man. Thank you all for listening. The website is sex drugs in jesus dot com. Don't forget to donate, and I bless you all.

De'Vannon Seráphino: Just remember that every little thing is gonna be alright. Thank you for coming, Shana girl. 

Shana Francesca: Thank you for having 

Shana Francesca: me.

De'Vannon Seráphino: Thank you all so much for joining us today and for taking some time to invest into yourself and into the lives of your loved ones. Please visit us at sex drugs in jesus dot com and check out our resource page, our spiritual service offerings, my blog, my books, and other writings that has partnered with me to create. Find us on any social media platform. Stay strong, my people, And just remember that everything is gonna be alright.[01:01:00]