Sounds Fake But Okay
Sounds Fake But Okay
Ep 355: People in Relationships are Treated Better
Hey what's up hello! This week we talk about how people who are in relationships are treated differently than single people. It's like couple privledge but for the individual. We hate it!
Episode Transcript: www.soundsfakepod.com/transcripts/people-in-relationships-are-treated-better
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SARAH: Hey, what's up? Hello. Welcome to Sounds Fake But Okay, a podcast where an aro-ace girl (I'm Sarah that's me)
KAYLA: And a bi demisexual girl (That's me, Kayla)
SARAH: Talk about all things to do with love, relationships, sexuality, and pretty much anything else we just don't understand
KAYLA: On today's episode, ‘people treating you differently when you're in a relationship.’
BOTH: Sounds fake, but okay
SARAH: Welcome back to the pooooooooooood
KAYLA: Ooh, you're in a silly-goofy mood today
SARAH: I'll be honest, I realized I was being too loud too close to my mic.
KAYLA: Oh
SARAH: So, I just kind of… I made it an event
KAYLA: Right
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: Right
SARAH: That's all
KAYLA: Okay
SARAH: I'm like tired for no reason
KAYLA: Mm-hmm.
SARAH: Did I do anything taxing at work today? No
KAYLA: But work is taxing
SARAH: But did I work that much?
KAYLA: I couldn't say, I wasn't there
SARAH: I mean, neither was I, let's be honest
KAYLA: Mm-hmm
SARAH: Anyway, hi, welcome. This is… welcome back to this is a pod. Do we have any housekeeping?
KAYLA: No, I don't think
SARAH: Okay. Kaaaaaaayla?
KAYLA: That's me.
SARAH: What are we talking about this week?
KAYLA: This week, I'm not entirely sure because you brought this to me and you sent me a screenshot of your Notes app and it…
SARAH: It had half a sentence and…
KAYLA: Was mostly links
SARAH: Mostly links
KAYLA: Which I couldn't click on
SARAH: Because it was a screenshot
KAYLA: And wasn't gonna type. So, we're talking about this week…
SARAH: Something
KAYLA: How people treat you differently…
SARAH: Yes, okay, here's… I found some tweets the other day, and by the other day, I mean like a month ago and I saved them in a note on my phone.
KAYLA: Yep
SARAH: And I think we should talk about them
KAYLA: I'm ready
SARAH: And luckily the tweets are all still there
KAYLA: Thank God
SARAH: All right. So, this is from MadisonTate_(Apologist) on Twitter
KAYLA: Okay
SARAH: And this person says, “I was single for years before my boyfriend and one of the things that's been such a jarring discovery is how I'm more or less the same person but socially I'm now seen as ‘fixed’ or something. It really has just deepened my belief that a lot of you are not normal about singledom.” And then she goes on to say, “I don't know, I feel more empathy for single me now in a relationship than I did before. Like, wow, there really was nothing wrong with you, people around you just constantly made you feel like shit for being single because of their own insecurities or their own relationship issues.” And then she says, “I have actively hated how some people have spoken about me being in a relationship, yes, I love my boyfriend and I think he's had a positive influence on me but I don't think I'm an inherently more worthwhile person now than I was before but that's how some people act. Very, very, weird.” And they gave an example, they said, “I had a ‘best friend’ who was incredibly cruel to me about me being single, described me as needing a boyfriend so I would ‘stop being a problem.’ Now that I have a boyfriend, I believe more than ever that was fucked up and wrong, I didn't deserve that regardless of my relationship status, on the flip side, I never expected being in relationship to fix my problems and that served me well, I think too many people cling too much to the idea that once you get the validation of someone wanting to be with you, everything will be fixed, that's your downfall.” And then the last tweet they have in this thread is, “also, in case anyone else relates, it's difficult when people around you see you as sexy, cool, a catch, et cetera, but you fundamentally don't or can't, it's isolating when you hate yourself and haven't had anything to contradict that but friends act like it should all come easy for you.”
KAYLA: Mm
SARAH: So, Kayla, as a person who is in a relationship
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: I know that you have been in this relationship for a long time and you have been in this relationship since being in college and I think people treat you differently if you're single in college than if you're single after college
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: But do you feel like this has been your experience? That people, even though you have not necessarily fundamentally changed, people treat you as an individual differently when you're in a relationship
KAYLA: Like me personally or people in general?
SARAH: Both
KAYLA: I'm trying to think, because you're right, it's hard because the last time I was single I was in college and I think it is more socially-acceptable to be single when you're in college than it is when you're like a grown real adult
SARAH: I also… I mean to say this as just a factual thing, which is that, you had a boyfriend in high school?
KAYLA: Mm-hmm, some of high school, yeah
SARAH: Some of high school. But then when I met you, you were single?
KAYLA: Mm-hmm
SARAH: You were single for like a year and change when I first knew you
KAYLA: Mm-hmm
SARAH: And ever since then you have been pretty consistently either in a relationship, a situationship or dating
KAYLA: What are you talking about!?
SARAH: I said, I'm just stating the facts, I'm not placing any moral or ethical implications on this
KAYLA: No, it's true, this is true, a serial monogamist
SARAH: And so, I wonder if you don't have as much of that experience just because even when you were single, you were actively seeking a relationship
KAYLA: Mm
SARAH: Or in a situationship or I mean, then you're not really single if you're in a situationship, but, you know
KAYLA: Yeah, I would say there was probably only months, like, chunks of months at a time that I was truly single, not like a full year since, I guess, like, freshman year of college
SARAH: Mm-hmm
KAYLA: So yeah, it's hard to… it is hard to say the… this is more how I treated myself, but I always… in college my big joke all the time was, I always would joke that I was funnier when I was single, like my tweets when I was single were really funny
SARAH: Mm-hmm
KAYLA: And I don't know why, I guess, I had more time to devote to my Twitter presence, but…
SARAH: You think being in a relationship makes you less funny?
KAYLA: It seemed to be that way in college, I think now I'm very funny
SARAH: Okay, congratulations
KAYLA: One of my co-workers today told me that I could be a comedian, so
SARAH: Look at you girl
KAYLA: Look at me
SARAH: You already have the mic
KAYLA: I already have the mic
SARAH: Let's go
KAYLA: Let's go.
SARAH: Do you find that that happens to people around you?
KAYLA: I do think so, yes, I think also part of the reason that maybe this didn't happen to me is I think the people that this happens to are the people who people think need to ‘settle down’
SARAH: Mm-hmm
KAYLA: Like, almost like this girl was talking about like her friend was like, “you're not gonna be such a problem anymore if you start dating.”
SARAH: Right
KAYLA: I think oftentimes people see being in a long-term relationship as something that makes you mature and so if you're someone who goes out and parties a lot or you just date casually a ton or you like drink a lot, whatever, the idea is then eventually you would ‘settle down’ in a relationship and you're not gonna have that lifestyle anymore
SARAH: Right
KAYLA: Which is like a problematic line of thinking for a lot of different reasons
SARAH: Not necessarily true. Right. And also, if you get in a relationship with someone who also, you know likes to go out and have a good time, then you can start going out and having a good time together
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: But somehow people still view that as better and more stable because you have your person that you're doing it with
KAYLA: Yeah, I have seen, I've never read a book like this, but I've seen on like BookTalk or whatever descriptions of books or excerpts of books or whatever where the trope is like fake dating or arranged marriage or whatever and it's always that it's the man and he's like the heir to some large business
SARAH: Right
KAYLA: But his family or the company or whatever think he's too young and reckless to take over the company. So, they're like, “okay, fake-marry this woman so that people take you seriously and think you're ready to take over the company.”
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: What?
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: What?
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: What?
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: I think it's interesting also to look at the difference in how people are treated for this by gender
SARAH: Yes
KAYLA: Because I think for men it is often that thing of settling down and becoming like serious, being serious about your career, not… I don't know, being lazy anymore or something, I don't know, being like a grown adult, it is, okay, you're in a grown adult relationship now and you're a serious person. I also think part of it too is like the person in the tweet was talking about like solving your problems, I think for men it's often seen as… and it's unfortunately true in way too many cases that a woman will come in and like literally just fix the man
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: Like he won’t have all these problems, not be the best person…
SARAH: She will essentially be his mother and…
KAYLA: Yes
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: Like, I know people personally in my life like the men are like, ugh, not like the best person and then they start dating like the most amazing woman and it's like, first of all, how did that happen?
[00:10:00]
SARAH: Right
KAYLA: Then second all, suddenly, he's like a way better person now
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: And it's because this woman in his life making him have standards for himself
SARAH: Which is like great, but also…
KAYLA: Why?
SARAH: Why couldn’t you have done that youself?
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: That brings me to, I think, these two like top replies which I find interesting, one of them is from William, who appears to be a man and William says, “it's especially bad among older people, since getting a girlfriend I feel like my parents and other older people in my life take me more seriously even though literally nothing else about me has changed.” So, again, that taking them more seriously like, settling down
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: And then we have this comment from Rue who interestingly is a minor, their bio says that they're 17
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: But even this person who is 17-years-old
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: Is saying, “it's like your worth suddenly increases tenfold because someone finds you desirable enough to want to be in a relationship with you, I'm in my first and the change is literally overnight.”
KAYLA: I can definitely see that in high school too, just kind of like the high school social dynamics of someone goes from being like whatever to, well, if this person wants them, that must mean that there's something desirable there
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: So, we should all want this person
SARAH: Then OP responded to this Rue and said, “I hate it, it almost makes me not want to mention things to people because I can see the switch flip in their head immediately, ‘oh, you're a woman who finally fixed your problem of not being attached to a man, you're more human now.’ It's gross and makes me uncomfortable.” And then Rue says, “yes, yes, especially as a woman, your value is entirely dependent on how a man interacts with you. It gets even worse when you switch from the girlfriend to the wife, we're not people until we can prove it.”
KAYLA: Interesting
SARAH: And by prove it they mean attach themselves to a man who finds them desirable and good enough to want to be with
KAYLA: Yeah. I will say I had an interaction today that just proves that like anyone is guilty of this. So, there's someone I work with, I like don't know the exact ages of most of the people I work with because we're not just going around being like, “here's my exact age,” whatever.
SARAH: I know the exact ages of all of my co-workers, mostly because I have…
KAYLA: You work with two people
SARAH: I work with more than two people, but I do have copies of all of their passports
KAYLA: Love that, love that. And there have been several instances at work where people are way older than I thought they were
SARAH: Mm
KAYLA: And for one part, it's because these people look very young, that's so good for them, they look way younger than they are.
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: But also, they were both people who are single and actively talk about dating. Like, I hear them talking about dating in the office, and for that and for a variety of other reasons, I thought they were like close to my age
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: But I realized, after I realized… like, learned how old this person actually was, I realized that part of the reason I assumed these people were my age is because they are unattached, they are actively on the dating scene
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: Not married, not in serious relationships, whatever
SARAH: And it's not like, “oh, I'm a divorcee looking to date again.”
KAYLA: Yes
SARAH: Like, you're… you know?
KAYLA: Yeah. And a lot of the other people in my office are married and they… I don't know, so, it just like gives the appearance that they are older and more established in their careers
SARAH: Right
KAYLA: So, yeah, it feels like a signaling of, oh, you must be at this stage of your life because x, y, z.
SARAH: Right. It certainly goes hand in hand with couple privilege
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: But I think… the interesting thing about this is it's how you're being treated as an individual
KAYLA: Right
SARAH: Because you're in a couple not how you're being treated as a couple.
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: And like obviously there are economic benefits and blah blah blah and whatever. And that can also contribute to why people may view you as more stable, like, if you live with your partner, if you have shared finances with your partner, you… I mean, by definition probably are more stable
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: Because you have two incomes, right?
KAYLA: Yeah, yeah
SARAH: But the assumption that that makes you more mature is not necessarily true
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: That reminds me, I just heard today someone that I like very sort of kind of know, apparently, they were with their partner for like nine and a half years, they were engaged and then they broke up
KAYLA: Yikes
SARAH: They called off the engagement and since then this person has gotten into the rave scene
KAYLA: Okay
SARAH: But this person is like 35. And so, I was talking with other people who know and know of this person and we were like, “that's really interesting, you don't usually hear of people getting into the rave scene when they're grown.”
KAYLA: Yeah, that time of life
SARAH: There are people that age in the rave scene but they usually get into it when they're young, when they're in their early 20s and then they stay in it
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: Like, starting in it in your mid-30s is interesting
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: And it just makes me think of that person… well, because the person I was talking to you about this was like, “well, they said that they had broken up.” And I was like, “oh did you have a queer realization?” And then they said, “they started getting into raves,” and they were like, “or was it drugs? Raves seem really straight” and I was like, “raves do seem straight, but they also seem poly.”
KAYLA: I think… someone is gonna get mad about this
SARAH: Yes
KAYLA: I think raves are straight in a swinger way
SARAH: Yeah, that's why I said they're straight but…
KAYLA: But not poly because…
SARAH: Okay, specifically…
KAYLA: Poly and swingers are very… like, culturally feels like very different to me
SARAH: That's fair, headed in the same general direction, but different vibes
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: Yeah, that's fair, that's super fair. Anyway, but now… that just makes me think about like how people might view her differently because she was in an almost 10-year relationship, she was engaged, they were going to get married
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: And then now she is single and she is getting into this scene, which is more traditionally associated with younger people
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: I would be very curious to see if she feels like she has been treated significantly different by people in her life
KAYLA: Yeah, I mean, I wonder if that's part of the reason… I mean, there are so many people that just get stuck in long-term relationship with… Relationships like that, especially when they start getting into their late 20s, early 30s, for a variety of reasons, you know, there's like stability with being with someone for so long and you've built your life with them, whatever, but I also wonder how big of a part of just the loss of status is.
SARAH: Yeah, status matters
KAYLA: Yeah, it's also just by that point in life, it's probably more likely that you have friends that are in established couples
SARAH: Mm-hmm
KAYLA: And then you…
SARAH: You're being shoved back into a life stage that you thought you left behind
KAYLA: Right. And it's also… I don't know, as we've talked about many times, a lot of people in couples have hard times relating to people that are single and staying friends with them.
SARAH: Yeah, especially if they have kids
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: Especially if they have like bigger commitments to… whatever it is
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: Absolutely. There's this reply from David Neary who says, “it is so much crazier when you get married, ours was a rushed case for immigration reasons. So, we didn't really feel married at the time, but the way people immediately talk to you differently when they know you're married, especially older folks is extremely telling.”
KAYLA: That's so interesting. I feel like I have not really had that with getting engaged
SARAH: I think it's bigger when you actually get married
KAYLA: You think?
SARAH: Because an engagement, you can just be engaged
KAYLA: I guess
SARAH: Once you're married to undo that is a much more involved process and so it seems like a bigger commitment
KAYLA: I suppose, I guess. I had just… when I knew that we were gonna get engaged soon, I had these plans in my head, I think I even mentioned it on the podcast, but I was like, “I want to do an episode of the podcast about how I'm treated differently after getting engaged,” because I expected that to happen
SARAH: Mm-hmm
KAYLA: I haven't really like felt it that much
SARAH: It could also just be the people that you are surrounded by
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: But I do think… I mean, it is interesting a lot of times since there has been an uptick in the amount of people using the word ‘partner’ for the person that they're dating
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: I feel like in many cases that's because they may be older and boyfriend, girlfriend, non-binary friend, feels a little immature, like, it feels a little childish and so they want to use a term that sounds more mature. And so, I think just inherently because, you know, a 60-year-old person when they're married, that's their wife
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: A 21-year-old person when they're married, that's their wife
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: A 21-year-old person when they're dating someone, that's their girlfriend. A 60-year-old person when they're dating someone that's their lady friend
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: Like, I think because you can associate like okay a 21-year-old being married is just like a six-year-old being married
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: Whereas a 21-year-old dating is not exactly like a six-year-old dating
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: So, these things just kind of get compacted and combined and all treated the same way just because they use the same term of a spouse when the forms those relationships take and the people in them may look very different from one another
[00:20:00]
KAYLA: Yeah. I will definitely say before we got engaged, especially at work, I did not like calling Dean my boyfriend because it did feel very juvenile
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: Especially when I'm the youngest person in my office and the people in my office are either married or single
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: And then there was me. But like…
SARAH: Right
KAYLA: You know? So, it always felt very odd to be like, “here is my boyfriend.” Because I was like, “I'm a professional woman, I don't have a boyfriend.”
SARAH: Right. Here is a reply from Positivity Moon, they said, “that's the glitch, you do the work, build your life, survive every lonely night, and then one relationship suddenly makes you complete in other people's eyes. Nothing inside you changed except the status. Everyone projects their own fear of aloneness treating single is broken, paired as solved, like happiness is just a matter of getting chosen, but you know the truth now, you were whole before and still are, only now the world acts like they can finally relax about you. Most people aren't normal about being single because they're terrified of it, you are not the problem, their panic is.” Which I heartily agree.
KAYLA: Yeah, yeah
SARAH: And I wish it were different, especially, as a person who anticipates being single forever, I don't want to be treated as lesser because I'm single
KAYLA: Yeah, yeah, it really is that feeling of like, “oh my God, thank God, they're finally in a relationship, we can stop worrying about them.”
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: Like, they’re someone else's responsibility now or whatever, which is just like, what!?
SARAH: Yeah, and like when I explain to people like, what I am, I pretty much always feel the need to clarify, like, I'm fine with it.
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: Because if I don't say that, I worry that they're either going to pity me or have another weird reaction that is not the reaction I want
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: Like, making a big deal out of it or that sort of thing. But what if I were an aro-ace person who like was still coming to terms with that?
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: You shouldn't have to lie and say like, “oh, I'm...” Like, society is built for couples, it privileges couples. And we are told that if you don't have a partner, you are somehow lesser. And so, if you realize that maybe your future does not contain a partner or it doesn't contain a partner in the way that you expected or society expects you to have, coming to terms with that can be difficult
KAYLA: Mm-hmm
SARAH: And like even I as a person who I'm like fine with the fact that like I'm not into that, like, that's totally fine, like, I absolutely still have those moments where it's like, “oh cool, I'm gonna be alone.” Like, everyone is gonna have their person and I'm gonna be alone. And so, I think it's… you have to kind of preface it with like, “oh, I'm okay with that,” so that people don't get weird and pitying and be like almost… you almost expect them to immediately start trying to fix you
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: Or tell you that you can be fixed, but it's like, no, no
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: We need to fix society
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: We need to fix how everyone else is talking about this and acting about this
KAYLA: Yeah. It just feels like such a disservice, I feel like I've talked about this before, but what is like hitting me is just the idea of when someone gets a partner that you don't have to worry about them anymore that like, A, that their problems are solved but, B, if they do have any problems, it is their partner's responsibility now to fix that and it just feels like such a disservice and a loss of community
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: Like, why… before you had a partner, why was it not your friends’ and family's responsibility to help you through your problems and now that you have a partner, why is it the job of one sole person to help you?
SARAH: Why is it the burden on one person, yeah
KAYLA: Like, there have been several times in the past couple of years and it's like it's not anyone's fault and I'm not trying to like shit-talk people, but there have been times where I have like, either me or Dean or whatever have been going through a hard time and it has felt like people are like, “oh, but they have each other, so, I don't need to offer additional support or help.”
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: Like, “they've got it covered over there, we'll be over here, call if you need anything.”
SARAH: Right
KAYLA: And it's just like the assumption that because you have that person… and obviously, it does help, it's a huge privilege to have a built-in person like that, but it just feels like such a disservice and a loss of community to assume that one person can do all of that for you
SARAH: Yeah. It also just reminds me of… I watched a video recently about the historical family types in different regions of the world and how that influences our politics now and our ability to sustain democracy and I did have some issues with some of the things this person said in this video, like, the way they were talking about some groups, they were, like, oh, well, because they have historically had this type of family structure like they can never sustain democracy, it'll always be authoritarian. And it's like, okay, take a deep breath
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: And like it also seemed like they were kind of like being a little like putting the West on a pedestal and they were also critiquing the West but they were treating them differently than other regions of the world. But it was interesting because they were talking about historically how community and family structures have been set up and how there's like six main types, I can't remember them off the top of my head, but there's, you know, the patrilineal where like, once a woman marries a man she moves in with his family and it's the full extended family under one roof, once the patriarch dies then those split off into their own umbrella families under each of the other patriarchs
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: And then they build those up, from the ground up, versus like in the United and then other types of blah blah blah, versus in the US where it's like very individualistic, your parents kick you out of the house when you turn 18 and that that sort of thing, you don't have multiple generations living in the same home blah blah blah blah and I think… where was I going with this? I just think that absolutely plays a part in the past when Western cultures in general were more community-based
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: And you stayed in the town you grew up in and you don't move across the country and have to uproot yourself and create a new community, that support system was a little more built in
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: But because of the way things are, the way things have been fracturing and becoming more individualistic and the United States is imperially and colonially enforcing that onto other cultures
KAYLA: Ugh
SARAH: To the extent that they accept it is another question, but I think that is making it harder because it's just making our support system smaller. And so, then people don't necessarily know who your more extended support system is and so they're just like “oh, well, you have your partner, you're fine.”
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: I have another reply that I'd like to read, which is from Ash, who says, “this is so true. My beautiful boyfriend just passed away and the amount of people trying to console me by saying you'll find someone else.”
KAYLA: Ew
SARAH: “Not even close to what I want to be doing at the moment but apparently I won't be okay again until I do.”
KAYLA: Good Lord
SARAH: It's like how my grandma, like, a year after my grandpa died, her friend was like, “oh, do you want me to set you up with someone?” and she was like, “no.”
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: They were married for 57 years, he has been dead for a year, I'm 80 years old
KAYLA: Yeah, I can’t
SARAH: I'm fine, thank you
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: Like, I understand that some people may want to get out back on the scene, but like to assume that they should or ought to
KAYLA: Or that that's what you would be worried about
SARAH: It's like a weird form of geriatric amatonormativity
KAYLA: Mm
SARAH: It doesn't even have to be geriatric, just widow amatonormativity
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: Interesting. Eric Shaw says, “I talked to my sisters about this, I'm 46 and we're the kids of the last generation of women who really needed men” as in like to move up in society
KAYLA: Open a credit card
SARAH: Like, have a credit card, that sort of thing, yeah. “They still moved with that, ‘see, that's why you can't keep a man energy’ towards my generation of girls and a lot of their worth was caught up that, it's a tough cycle to break”
KAYLA: Mm
SARAH: Which I think there definitely could be some truth in that
KAYLA: Yeah, I think there's a lot of truth in that from both sides of women needed men to be able to live, you could not own land, you could not open a credit card, open a bank account, whatever
SARAH: Mm-hmm
KAYLA: And then on the man side, who's gonna cook your dinner while you go to the office?
SARAH: Right
KAYLA: Who's gonna…
SARAH: Who's gonna do your laundry?
KAYLA: You can't have kids and continue your line which I think felt more important in the past, at least, from what movies keep telling me
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: So, I think yes, there was more of a reliance, it was less possible to live as a single person successfully two generations ago
[00:30:00]
SARAH: Yeah. Dr. Kay Bronson Kate, Kate Bronson, Dr. Kay says, “numerous people outside of other people, that woman has never been married or had kids, she doesn't know anything about life. To me, an unmarried woman with no kids, I get it, I'm stupid, useless, and undesirable.” Christ
KAYLA: Insane
SARAH: Yeah. People are just saying like, whenever I tell people I'm single, people are saying that you should get on the apps or get out there rather than asking, “do you want to be dating?”
KAYLA: Yeah, just the assumption. Sarah, do you think for the brief time you knew me when I was single, do you think you treated me differently?
SARAH: No
KAYLA: Okay, just checking in
SARAH: Emily says, “something I realized since my ex and I broke up is that I'm not invited to as many things anymore, when he was here, people wanted to see us/him but now nothing, that's something that gets to me sometimes.” And like, it is true that like you may lose friends in the breakup if they were more friends with one person than the other but it's interesting to me that Emily is kind of implying that she's being invited to fewer things because she is not a part of a couple
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: And people were inviting her as one half of a couple not inviting her as herself and also inviting her partner
KAYLA: Yeah. I think… like, I was talking about earlier I think that's what's so hard about getting into a group. Like, getting to a stage in life where so many of your friends are couples, like, thinking about the friends I have here in Boston at this point everyone is in a relationship and that has been in flux for several… like, there was times over the years where like people were single, dating, whatever, where we have landed now is everyone is in a long-term committed relationship, which I find very cringe that I've ended up in this situation
SARAH: I am so sorry
KAYLA: I’m not proud of it, but there's like five couples...
SARAH: I'm not proud of the fact that my friends are all in committed relationships
KAYLA: I’m literally not, I'm not. But luckily, we're queer, so, it's like, you know, it's not as bad as it could be. But it's like five couples and that's my friend group and it's very cringe. But we are all also friends individually and like know each other from different things and do not just hang out because we are couples, but I really… like, I don't think that's the case, for a lot of people, you just have your couple friends, you're only friends with because they're a couple and you met them as a couple
SARAH: Right. I just hopped in the quote retweets and shout out to sangria@meme_Slytherin, and I believe your profile picture is Nam June
KAYLA: Hmm
SARAH: Yes, you are, okay, anyway. But they said, “this is why asexuals and aromantics speak out about amatonormativity affecting everyone, the expectation that you're only valuable if you have a monogamous relationship and often a cishet one, otherwise, you're broken, truly disturbing.” Speak on it Sangria.
KAYLA: That is very, very, very true
SARAH: Anorexicwhore says…
KAYLA: Hmm
SARAH: Yeah, I have questions about that. But this person says, “I've been single my entire life but now that I finally have a boyfriend, my IRL friends and family are acting like I fucking cured cancer or something. My mom cried because she was worried I'd for real spend my entire life alone. Why are people so weird about singles?”
KAYLA: Ugh
SARAH: I think a lot of times unfortunately, it is going back to what, whoever that man was, said about his sisters, that a lot of times it is the moms
KAYLA: Mm-hmm
SARAH: Being weird, like… and I understand that it may come from a place of love where they're worried about their daughters and they're worried about them being able to have a good life and to be able to provide for themselves but the assumption that being with a man is the only way to do it is harmful
KAYLA: Yeah. It's like it's seen as an achievement to get into a relationship. Like, I have had conversations with people in the past about weddings and like specifically the topic of guest lists of like, “do you need to invite like your grandma's best friend to your wedding and you've only met her once in your life?” like, “do you need to invite distant relatives?” whatever. And I've talked to people who have been like, “well, but it's like a celebration of the family, of the parents and the grandparents celebrating with their friends and family that their family member got married.” Which to me was like so you are…
SARAH: So, have a goddamn party yourself
KAYLA: Exactly. But the thing was, I was like, is it really…
SARAH: But why are you so invested in the…
KAYLA: Is it really such a big achievement that my grandma needs to invite her best friend from elementary school to celebrate the fact that her granddaughter is getting married? Like, is it an achievement for real, like I didn't like win something, you know, like this wasn't merit-based
SARAH: Right
KAYLA: I didn't like study for this
SARAH: Getting married is not merit-based?
KAYLA: No, but for real like it comes down to like luck and compatibility and whatever at most, like, this is not an achievement
SARAH: Yeah. It is interesting when people are saying, like when someone is like, “oh, my daughter is getting married, my son is getting married, my non-gender-conforming child is getting married,” and people say, “congratulations to them.”
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: And like, on one hand I get it, because like what else you gonna say?
KAYLA: Yeah, I do get because like…
SARAH: But some people really emphasize the congratulating part
KAYLA: The congratulation, yeah. Yes, like congratulation, you've successfully…
SARAH: You've raised a kid…
KAYLA: You’ve raised a child that was successful enough to get married but like why is that the metric for like good job parenting, your child achieved the highest status, like good job, you did it, parenting A-plus, they got married
SARAH: Somebody wanted to hitch their boat to that wagon
KAYLA: Ew
SARAH: I don’t know why we're hitching boats to wagons
KAYLA: But like why is that, you know, like why is that the achievement?
SARAH: Yeah. James says, “father's friend asked if I was single, I lied and said yes rather than come out to a man I'd never see again.” He disappeared with dad and then came back and said, “I heard you have a boyfriend, thank God, I was wondering what was wrong with you, I don't mind the gays.”
KAYLA: Oh, oh, oh, oh
SARAH: So…
KAYLA: A lot to unpack there, a lot to unpack
SARAH: Yeah. Also, Pow who saw Hobie, a lot of Armies in this, maybe that's why I came up to your feed
KAYLA: It’s your Twitter
SARAH: But this person said, “I genuinely hate when people consider getting a partner permanently as the highest score you could ever achieve. And oh mate, you couldn't be more wrong, it's definitely…” I think this thinking, this line of thinking is embracing the like fairy tale ending mindset that once you get married, that's the end, you have reached it, you have peaked, you have hit the apex, whereas, that is just a start to a whole new chapter in your life and it doesn't… a legal document doesn't necessarily change anything. I saw a reel the other day where it was like a skit where this girl was playing that high school friend who was obsessed with being a bride, not with being married but with being a bride
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: And the bit was that the friend would just wear their wedding dress everywhere
KAYLA: Good
SARAH: And they would be like, oh, like I mean, I paid a lot of money for this, I might as well get my money's worth out of it, I'm gonna wear it on a hike, and then when you're on the hike people will be like, “oh are you getting married?” and then they would like act like they are a bride rather than that they've been married for a year and a half, which is the truth
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: And oh, it's not all that different from when you weren't married.
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: Maybe it's worse, I don't know, I don't know your relationship
KAYLA: Going back to what you just said, I think because of the way things worked a couple of generations ago, getting married was the marker of adulthood. Like, it was, you know, you graduate high school, you get married, now you start working, you have your family, whatever
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: And so, I think it's still largely seen that way. So, it almost feels like the achievement there is then, okay, you're done being a child, you graduated college, you started working, you get married, okay now your real adult life starts
SARAH: Mm-hmm
KAYLA: Like, you were saying the next chapter starts, but it's like, okay now real-life, you're married that real-life starts
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: Where that is just not how things work for the vast majority of people
SARAH: And people also assume that once you're married soon after that you're going to have kids
KAYLA: Right
SARAH: And having kids come to the certain level of responsibility and maturity that if you didn't have already, you're either going to get or you're going to be a really horrible parent
KAYLA: Mm-hmm, yeah
SARAH: So, you know, I think they just assume that that level of maturity is incoming
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: And that if you aren't in a situation to get married and to potentially have kids in the near future then you just must not have that level of maturity yet, which is bullshit, but
KAYLA: Yeah, I think there's an assumption that getting married means that you are a mature person that is able to have a long-term relationship, where I think we can see from the divorce rates…
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: That people who get married are not always very mature and responsible
SARAH: Well, and people always say, “oh, the divorce rates are so much higher now than they used to be,” yeah, because people used to not… because women couldn't have credit cards…
[00:40:00]
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: Without their husbands signing off on them, it was financially and socially taboo unfeasible to get divorced
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: But now that women have more… I just had the word and I lost it, women have more… I keep trying to say electives, that's not it
KAYLA: No
SARAH: They have more control, more power over their life and you don't need a man. Of course, more people are getting divorced because there are so many marriages that were horrible
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: And I have been very lucky in my life that so many of the people I am surrounded by who are married have been, from my point of view, good and healthy relationships
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: But that is not necessarily true for everyone and just because that is what you see or what you interpret seeing does not mean it's the case broadly
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: I saw a comment earlier that was like, “you know, they congratulate you as soon as you're in a relationship, but only 10% of the people I know in long-term relationships are happy.” It's like, yeah, well.
KAYLA: Yeah, and they're not all very mature and stable and put together
SARAH: Maybe the maturity that people perceive is unhappiness
KAYLA: Hmm hmm
SARAH: Like stagnation
KAYLA: Interesting, interesting
SARAH: And people view that as like, well, that's just a very adult thing, you know
KAYLA: To be sad
SARAH: To be sad and stagnant
KAYLA: All adults are sad
SARAH: So, do you have anything else you'd like to add?
KAYLA: No, I think we've ranted for long enough
SARAH: We've done it. Kayla, what is our poll for this week? I don't know how to phrase this as a poll, but I would really like to hear from our listeners who are from different cultures from us about how you do or don't experience this, to what extent you do or don't experience it because, obviously, we come from a very US-centric point of view with a very individualistic society
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: And it's different elsewhere as that lightly problematic video I watched, lightly problematic but informational video I watched indicated
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: So, I don't know what the question is there. I mean, have you experienced this? Have you seen it? Has it happened to you?
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: Are you super lucky that you've never ever seen it in your life and you're like, “what the hell are they talking about?”
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: In which case, good for you, man. Kayla, what is your beef and your juice for this week?
KAYLA: My beef is that my wrist has been hurting
SARAH: Oh, no
KAYLA: I don’t know if I like slept on it funny
SARAH: It's giving Sarah
KAYLA: I held my phone weird. But I've also been… I was coloring the other day, so, I was like, maybe I colored too hard
SARAH: Colored too hard
KAYLA: My wrist kind of hurts
SARAH: You need to work up your stamina for coloring
KAYLA: I guess, I’ll do like wrist crunches or whatever
SARAH: No, I… Kayla
KAYLA: I know, I know you do, I know you do
SARAH: I have.
KAYLA: There it is, your wrist weight
SARAH: This is an audio medium, but I have a three-pound weight that I keep at my desk and I do my wristy things on it because my wrist is fucked up and I had surgery on it a couple of years ago and it has never gone back to how it was before I started having the problem
KAYLA: You and your wrists cyst
SARAH: My wrist cyst, ripped to the wrist cyst. I had a friend who had a wrist cyst and they recently got it removed surgically and it immediately came back
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: I was like, “wow, I'm so glad that didn’t happen to me.”
KAYLA: Yeah, that would not have been good. My juice is I started reading Katabasis, Katabases? I don't know how to pronounce it, by R.F.
SARAH: Calabasas, the city on the way to San Diego
KAYLA: I don’t know if I can look up how to pronounce it, that's an advertisement, “Katabasis,” no way. “Katabasis”
SARAH: Denied
KAYLA: I don't believe you
SARAH: Well, you're reading a book, who is it by?
KAYLA: R.F. “Katabasis”
SARAH: I don't think their name is R.F. Katabasis
KAYLA: R.F. Kuang
SARAH: Mm, tea
KAYLA: I've read one of her other books, ‘Babel,’ it was very good. But very good so far, I would recommend, Katabasis
SARAH: Tea. Do you have a beef?
KAYLA: I already did my beef, my new beef is that you don't remember anything I say
SARAH: Every single week, every single week I do this
KAYLA: That’s my new beef
SARAH: Do you usually do beef first and then juice?
KAYLA: Mm-hmm
SARAH: And yet
KAYLA: And yet, here we are
SARAH: And yet. Okay, my juice is that I finally started consistently using a real app to track my workouts, everyone please applaud. Previously, I had been using a gigantic note in my Notes app, it was really hard, like, I had to like manually write down everything every time and it was really hard to go back and I didn't know what anything was called, so, I was just calling things… I mean, to be fair in my app now because it wasn't an exercise that was already in there, I do have an exercise in there called ‘around the heads.’
KAYLA: Mmm
SARAH: And then I wouldn't be consistent between like week to week, day to day about what I called something
KAYLA: Good
SARAH: And then I would try and go back and see how much weight I had done last time and I wouldn't be able to find it in the note. And it took some adjusting to get to the app, but we're there now everyone, please applaud. My other juice, I had a first therapist appointment, self-improvement, everyone please applaud
KAYLA: Whoa
SARAH: I've done it, I'm very brave. My beef is I continue to get hives for reasons apparently completely unrelated to my child, everyone boo
KAYLA: Boooooooo
SARAH: I got hives the other day because my pants that I wear frequently were rubbing against my stomach in a new and exciting way and I woke up the next morning and I had hives all over my thighs and I was like, that…
KAYLA: Huh
SARAH: How did they go from… that wasn't Addie, and I had it on my arms and I had it on my chest. Anyway, I looked it up and if hives are moving around your body for reasons that you… or like cropping up for reasons that you can't really identify, it might be related to an autoimmune problem and my family is full of those
KAYLA: Oh. Yay
SARAH: So, I guess maybe we'll find… they're testing my blood in a couple of weeks, I will have to call them once the roids are out of my system. Maybe they'll find something fun when they test my blood or they'll find nothing also because when I was reading about it online they were like, “there's a high chance they’ll find nothing and you will never know what causes this.”
KAYLA: Ah
SARAH: And I was like, “cool.”
KAYLA: Both great options
SARAH: Cleveland Clinic also said that chronic hives are most common in women between the ages of 30 and 60 and I was like, “so, Cleveland Clinic is saying that I'm like mature for my age?”
KAYLA: I know, that's what I was gonna say, she’s ahead, she’s an overachiever
SARAH: Anyway, yeah, I keep getting hives
KAYLA: Yuck
SARAH: Sometimes they're caused by my cat, sometimes they're caused by who knows and now every time anywhere on my body is slightly itchy, I'm like, “no.” I have to gaslight myself into being like, “that's not itchy, you're fine, everything is fine, everything is fine, don’t touch it.” Anyway, you can tell us about your beef, your juice, diagnose my hives on our social media @soundsfakepod. We also have a Patreon, patreon.com/soundsfakepod if you would like to support us and the doctor's appointments I'm gonna have to go to to figure out why I keep getting hives
KAYLA: Mm-hmm
SARAH: That's it, @soundsfakepod… no, that's at patreon.com/soundsfakepod. Our $5 patrons who we are promoting this week are Sofia P, Tall_Darryl, Tom S, Tanner Shioshita, Vince Terranova, and Vishakh. Our $10 patrons who are promoting something this week are Clare Olsen who would like to promote Impact_Frame, Derick & Carissa who would like to promote supporting each other through the transitions we face, Elle Bitter who would like to promote normalizing the use of tone indicators/srs and Eric who would like to promote queer ASL. Our other $10 patrons are my aunt Jeannie, Johanna, Kayla's dad, Maff, Martin Chiesl, Purple Hayes, Quartertone, Barefoot Backpacker, SongOStorm, Val, Alastor, Ani, Arcnes, Benjamin Ybarra, that's it, I didn't say the end at the right spot. Our $15 patrons are Ace who would like to promote the writer Crystal Scherer, Nathaniel White, NathanielJWhiteDesigns.com, Kayla’s Aunt Nina who would like to promote katemaggartart.com and Schnell who would like to promote accepting that everyone is different and that's awesome. Our $20 patrons are Changeling & Alex who would like to promote their company controlaltaccess.com and then also Dragonfly, my mom and River who would like to promote not treating people differently just because they put a ring on it
KAYLA: Speaking of putting a ring on it
SARAH: Hmm
KAYLA: Kate Maggart of Nina Maggart
SARAH: Mm-hmm
KAYLA: Is getting married this weekend, that's the wedding I'm going to
SARAH: Oh, that's so exciting
KAYLA: I know
SARAH: Kayla told me a thing about this wedding earlier and I was like, hmm, the venue is a banger
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: I await further details, you won't get all of them, but I will
[00:50:00]
KAYLA: Yeah, bitch. Support katemaggartart.com to help…
SARAH: Pay for her wedding
KAYLA: Support the wedding because weddings are expensive, I hear
SARAH: They’re really expensive. Thank you for listening, tune in next Sunday for more of us in your ears
KAYLA: And until then, take good care of your cows
SARAH: Hey, what's up? Hello! Welcome to ‘Sounds Fake But Okay’ a podcast where an aro-ace girl, (I'm Gloop, that's me)
KAYLA: Excuse me
SARAH: I just wanted to see if you would notice, I wanted to see if you actually pay attention
KAYLA: Why? How would I not?
SARAH: I don't know. I'm Sarah, that's me
KAYLA: And a bi demisexual girl, (that's me, Gloop)
SARAH: We can't both be Gloop
KAYLA: Well, you should have thought about that
SARAH: Talk about all things love, relationships, gloop reality and…
KAYLA: This can't be it, we should start over, this can’t be it
SARAH: We'll put it at the end
KAYLA: Okay
SARAH: Just keep it going
KAYLA: Okay
[END OF TRANSCRIPT]
