Dogs and cats, breeds and behaviour: Quick questions

Zazie and Kristi ask each other rapid fire questions about dogs and cats, breeds and behaviour. But in this game of this or that, we also discuss the answers, illuminating ideas about training and enrichment. By the end of the show, you'll know Zazie and Kristi a lot better, but you'll also have learned something about dogs and cats.

As you listen, be sure to shout out your answers too! Or you can leave us a voicemail and let us know.

Do you have any this-or-that questions that you would like us to answer? Send them in!

At the end of the episode, we discuss the books we've been reading:

• Detective Aunty by Uzma Jalaluddin
• Crier's War by Nina Varela

Transcript

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Zazie: Hello.

Zazie: Welcome to The Pawsitive Post in Conversation, the show about how to have a better relationship with your dog and cat. I'm Zazie Todd, author of the books Bark!, Wag and Purr and creator of Companion Animal Psychology Blog.

My co host, Kristi Benson is a dog trainer and anthropologist and she also works at the Academy for Dog Trainers. We can't give advice on your pet, so if you have concerns, see your dog trainer, cat behaviorist or veterinarian as appropriate.

Thanks for joining us today. We've seen a lot of rapid fire questions on social media and people playing the game of this or that. So today we thought we would play the game of this or that with questions about dogs and cats and dog and cat behavior.

And we have quite a few new listeners as well, so this will also help our new listeners get to know us a bit better. But I'm Zazie Todd. Welcome to the positive post in conversation, I'm joined as always by my friend and co host, Kristi Benson.

And Kristi, I think I should perhaps be a little fearful of some of your question.

Kristi: Not fear, not fearful, but I mean, waiting with great anticipation of the interesting questions that I have created for you as I drove home.

Zazie: I heard that laugh.

So anyway, we are going to go through some sets of questions and the rule is basically you just have to give the first answer that comes to mind.

But we are going to do it a little bit differently than some of the social media ones because we can chat a bit about them after that if we want to.

So that's the basis and I'm going to go first with a few questions.

So first one is a general one. Someone is getting a dog for the first time. Are you going to recommend them to get a golden retriever puppy or a friendly adult golden retriever?

Kristi: Oh,

puppy. I mean,

I adore puppies, so. And I know some people don't like puppies, which, you know, we're all allowed to love who we love, but puppy,

Puppy,

absolutely.

Would you be different on that one?

Zazie: You can't go wrong with any kind of golden retriever. Basically,

I always have a soft spot for the friendly adult rescue dog. So. Okay, so Kristi, you're visiting a friend in England and Crofts happens to be on and your friend really, really, really wants to go.

So are you going to go and see the agility or are you going to see the freestyle heel work to music?

Kristi: Agility, I think.

Zazie: Interesting.

Kristi: Yeah, I'm not sure I know what freestyle agility freestyle heel work to music is.

Zazie: Oh, that's when people are kind of dancing. Dancing with their dog. Like, they have a routine that they prepared with.

Kristi: Is it like a choreographed routine?

Zazie: Yes. Yes.

Kristi: Oh, okay. Then I would probably go see that. Yeah.

Zazie: Okay. That's the one I would pick. I mean, both. Both are cool, but. Okay, so you have to do an activity with Archer. Are you going to take Archer to ascent work class or to rally obedience?

Kristi: Taking Archer anywhere, man.

That's not Archer's, like, forte, bro. Scent work. I think it would be. I think he would be terrible at it, but I would be more interested in it. But, you know, like, he has a nose.

He can sniff things. He does. Like sniffing. He. When we go on walks, he. He definitely likes sniffing. So,

yeah.

Zazie: Okay, so we have to cover Soleil's ears while I ask you this next question.

Kristi: Okay.

Zazie: Would you prefer to get a border collie or an Australian shepherd? Seriously,

Kristi: Nothing like making our audience hate us.

Probably a border collie, actually, I think I would.

They're a little squishier, maybe. I don't know. Yeah,

yeah.

Not really breeds. I would,

you know,

orient myself to naturally, but, you know, if it was like, these are the only dogs that you're ever gonna have, again, I'd probably go,

but I don't know.

What would you pick? Would you pick the Aussie?

Zazie: Oh, yeah, that's easy for me. I'd pick the Aussie, definitely. I love Aussies. I mean, I love border collies, too, obviously,

but I especially love the Aussies, so. Okay, I have another question, which is about breeds that you perhaps might not gravitate to normally, but would you prefer to get a shih tzu or a miniature poodle?

Kristi: Poodle, probably. Like, the thing that immediately comes to my mind is that's a lot of grooming. Both of those options are a lot of grooming, But I feel like I could just take the poodle to a groomer.

Whereas the shih Tzu, I feel like it's, like, daily, kind of where I barely brush my own hair.

So the thought of having that kind of coat is not something that.

So I would pick the poodle.

Zazie: And I think you're right about the grooming. A shih Tzu does need regular daily grooming. Whereas the poodle, you could just go to the groomer. You would have to go regularly, but you.

You could do that. Okay, that's my first set of questions.

Kristi: Okay.

All right. So are you. So these are. I'm. I'm. I'm, like, easing you into my questions pretty nicely.

So would you pick the Smell of puppy Breath. The smell of puppy feet.

Zazie: Puppy breath.

Kristi: I'd go with feet.

Zazie: Oh, interesting.

Kristi: And I'm curious what our, what our audience thinks.

I hope they're yelling out their answers. 

Zazie: Yeah, I hope so.

We would love to know your answers, by the way, so you can feel free to drop me an email and let me know or if I shared this when I've shared this on socials.

You can leave a comment there too. We would be really interested to know your answers as well.

Kristi: For sure. Would you love to hear the howls of a husky or the chirping of a cat?

Zazie: Oh, gosh. I'm going to pick the cat.

But it's a tough question because I love it when huskies howl too.

But I think the cat chirruping is a very pro social thing towards the person they're chirruping at. So, you know, that's kind of like there's more emotional involvement, whereas the howl, maybe just a fire engine went by.

And it's cute and funny and adorable, but it's not. Got that same relationship aspect. But I used to absolutely love it when ghost howled.

Kristi: Yeah. Yeah. I knew that was going to be a hard one for you.

Zazie: Yeah, that was really hard. Like which to pick. That's tough.

Kristi: So cat in a loaf on a glass table so you can look up from underneath. Or a dog with their nose tucked under their tail as they lay.

Zazie: Oh, my gosh. 

Kristi: I got you. Oh, I'm evil.

Zazie: Yes.

I'm gonna go with the dog with their nose tucked under the tail because I think that's so, so cute.

And the cat and the cat loaf.

Like, if the cat was sprawled out, like the cat loaf is a nice position, but if the cat was sprawled out and more relaxed, I might pick differently, but I'm going with.

With the, with the dog for this one.

Kristi: I just, I love how random it looks like. It almost looks like, like seeing them from underneath and their little feet. And it just. I, I would pick that because it,

Zazie: it's adorable, isn't it? It is and it's adorable.

Kristi: They shouldn't be like that. Like, it seems like it should.

It's sort of like disrupts what you expect. Yeah, yeah.

Zazie: There is a photographer, isn't there, who takes. Who's taken lots of photos of cats from underneath a glass table. And I think that. Yeah, it's very cool.

Kristi: Okay. A cat licking between their toe beans with stretched fingers. Or a dog doing that sleep barking thing.

Zazie: Sleep barking. That's so cute. Yeah, that's really cute.

Kristi: Yeah.

Zazie: And I always like to think like, are they chasing a rabbit or something like that.

So you always think the dog is having a nice dream at that point. And I don't actually know if they are dreaming at that point because strictly speaking. Anyway, nevermind, we won't go down there.

Kristi: Professor Zazie has come up.

Zazie: The dog, it's just so cute. And when Pepper does that in his sleep, it's really cute.

Kristi: Yeah, okay. I love it.

So a book. This one's. Now we're veering into slightly harder territory, I think. So gird your loins.

A book with a well written dog character or a book with no dogs at all.

Zazie: Oh, the well written dog character.

I know I have to ask the question as to whether or not the dog dies in this book and I don't have the answer, but I'm going to pick answer to that.

That's what makes it hard. But I would pick the well written dog character because it's always nice to have a well written dog character in a book and people don't always write it well.

So you added well written so that at least gave me, you know, that made the question easier.

Kristi: Okay,

that one would be hard for me because even a well written dog character, I find myself kind of always stepping back from the narrative a bit and going, oh my God, I wonder if this dog is gonna.

I wonder if it's gonna change.

You know, every time I read something about a dog, I always get a little bit twitchy, just in case. Cause I've,

you know, you read so many poorly written dog characters, which I think is kind of endemic amongst books and maybe people with specializations with children and I don't know, ecology and stuff.

I have the same twitchy response because they, you know, their thing is not being written well. But yeah, I have a,

I have a thing for sure.

Zazie: If you hadn't have added well written, I would have, I would have picked the other one. But I'm assuming well written, that makes it much easier to pick because I'm not spending all the time thinking, oh, what is this dog going to do next?

Oh, what kind of anthropomorphisms are they going to be that I don't like or whatever?

Kristi: Yeah, for sure, for sure. Yeah. Okay, so that was my first set.

Zazie: Okay, so I have a cat question. Would you prefer to get a Siberian forest cat or a Siamese cat?

Kristi: I would pick Siberian forest cat just because it sounds cool. Assuming that ethics morality of anything is kind of out the. We just get a pick. It's imaginary.

Zazie: Yeah,

Well, I mean, they're both beautiful breeds of cats. So you can't go wrong with a Siberian forest cat or a Siamese. I personally could not choose. That's why I picked this one.

I thought I could not choose between them. I would love both.

Kristi: I'm not familiar with the Siberian forest cat.

Zazie: Oh, they, they are well suited to living in forests.

They have big thick coats. They are good for cold, cold places.

They're very nice cats and you should go and look one up after this. They have, they're amazingly good looking cats. Very nice cats. They will do.

Kristi: So.

Zazie: Okay, what's the last thing you searched on the Internet about dogs or cats, if you can remember?

Kristi: Sheesh, you know, I can't remember. It's mostly like recipes.

Zazie: Okay. Recipes for dog food.

Kristi: Then I can tell you a non dog thing, but an animal thing that I remember searching.

So I was searching for the, sadly the international,

there's an international body. I, I'm not gonna remember. Right. But it's like IUCN or something like that that decides on the status of endangered wildlife that gives them a rank.

It's one of the several international ranking methods for ranking animals at risk. So I was searching for caribou and I, I, it has one, but it's, it lumps caribou and reindeer altogether, which surprised me because they seem, I know they're the same animal, but they seem very different ones.

Largely the population that exist are domesticated and et cetera, et cetera. But,

but then it, under caribou, it also had a mollusk that is some kind of caribou mollusk that only lives in one lake in British Columbia. And so it's considered very, I think it's considered very threatened.

And I was like, oh, interesting. There's a,

there's just two, there's reindeer and then this one mollusk in British Columbia that only lives in one lake.

Yeah.

Zazie: Wow. Hmm.

Kristi: What about you? What was your last dog search?

Zazie: Last thing I searched it was something about pheromones and kitties. I was just wanting to clarify something about different pheromones that cats have. So yeah, and that was my next section.

Just two questions.

Kristi: Okay, so my next section is also just two questions. Would you pick revising a draft book that has been copy edited or writing a book proposal?

Zazie: Oh, no,

I'm gonna pick the book proposal because at that point you're full of hope that you have this wonderful idea for a book and maybe it's going to be a bestseller and everybody's going to love it.

And it is a lot of Work to write a book proposal. But at that point when you're editing,

copy editing, and you've edited so many times, you get really sick of the manuscript because you've read it dozens and dozens and dozens of times.

And although you're close to the end at that point,

it's like it still feels a long way away.

So that's what I would pick. I would pick the book proposal because it's something new and fresh.

Kristi: Fresh, right. Yeah. And edits can feel really personal,

I find. Like, you know, if you put a lot of heart into your writing and someone's like this sucks, essentially you're like, but that's from my heart. You know, it could be hard.

Zazie: Yeah. And you can get stuck on like a single word,

like a single word choice or something and you can actually be stuck on it for a lot longer than you might think.

And so anyone listening to this probably doesn't realize how much work a book proposal is. So a book proposal for a non fiction book is basically a business case for a book and who is going to read it and what it's about and a list of all the chapters and all the other books which are similar and so on.

So it is actually a huge ton of work. So that's why I had to kind of hesitate and say this is a really hard question.

Because it probably sounds to someone who doesn't know like it's a bit of a, I don't know. I'll be interested to know other authors listening. Let me know which you prefer.

Kristi: Okay. And then Bark! Fest, which was the book festival for animal lovers that we did last year. Do it again or never again.

Zazie: No, it wasn't actually last year, it was the year before.

That's how much time has gone by. It was 20, 24.

And I think I cannot answer this question. This question is. I have to censo the answer to this question.

I do think Bark! Fest was an amazing thing and we got such incredible feedback from other people and it was just planned as a one off and so many people said they would like to see it happen again.

And I cannot speak to that at this point in time.

Kristi: Ooh.

Kristi: Okay, those are my. That was my next group of, of of arbs.

Zazie: Okay, I have a couple of open ended questions to start my next section. Which dog treat does your household get through the most of?

Kristi: Rollover?

The treat rollover. Yeah, we've got a lot of big dogs and you know,

in the past when we had a lot of dogs,

it's just, it's easy, it's it cuts nicely. It's not sticky. It's a whole food,

you know, so it, it's something that you can be comfortable giving your dog a whole meal of essentially, you know. So, yeah, I, I adore rollover as a training tool and we def.

Go through quite a bit of it.

Zazie: And so corresponding question about cats. Which cat treat does your household get through the most of?

Kristi: So Apricat gets a little bit of wet food heated up every day with his because he has to take pills.

So that would be sort of his number one treat. And then his treats are more like toys that have like sachets of plant matter in them that he considers to be drugs.

Those would be his favorite treats.

Zazie: Cool. So would you prefer to go for a dog walk in the mountains or on a beach?

Kristi: I'm gonna say mountains just because I live in the mountains and so I'm really familiar with how beautiful they are and they offer dogs a lot of,

you know, sniffing opportunities. A lot of different vegetation, a lot of different animals are there.

But I, I just haven't spent that much time at a beach, so I don't have like a good emotional sense. Emotional connection to it. What about you? Because you,

you're not that close to a beach, are you? It must be at least a few hours away.

Zazie: Maybe an hour and 20 minutes or something like that. If the traffic's not bad. It's not too far to get to a beach in Vancouver, so.

But I would pick the mountains because especially forested. I love being in the forest and hearing the birds sing and things like that.

But of course, beaches are lovely too. But dogs aren't always allowed on beaches if it's a beach where dogs are allowed. Actually there are some lake beaches near here,

really quite close to where I live, where some of them do let dogs on the beach. So it's not the sea, but you are still surrounded by forested mountains. Maybe that's the best of both worlds in the mountains and at the beach.

Okay, so you're walking in the forest with your dogs and you spot an animal on the trail ahead.

Would you prefer it to be a grizzly bear or a cougar?

Kristi: Oh, God. Come on.

Grizzly bear.

Honestly, I think grizzly bear.

I think they're more likely in most of their stages of,

you know, what's my diet right now? They're not necessarily looking at you as a good prey item.

Whereas cougars, I feel like they're kind of like they'd be sized me up. No. No matter when.

Zazie: So. Yeah.

Kristi: And.

And they're they're just. They terrify me in the most delicious way. Like, I love everything about them, but I'm also terrified of them. So. Yeah, I think.

And we,

we have both here, but we've seen grizzly bears more. So I just have a little bit less of a, you know, immediate, oh, God.

Gonna now reaction to them.

Zazie: Yeah,

you don't want to see either.

No, for sure you don't want to see either.

What is the. Oh, no. I have an apricot question, actually,

because I know there are apricot fans who see apricat or hear apricat on here from time to time.

Which scent does apricot prefer, catnip or silver vine?

Kristi: Catnip. Hmm. Yeah.

Zazie: Cool.

Kristi: He gets bored of silver vine fast.

So,

yeah, we actually have quite a big stash of silver vine sticks. And he'll get a little bit excited, but.

But only for a bit, you know, and then we end up giving them to the dogs.

Zazie: I hope they're safe for dogs.

Kristi: Maybe cut this part out if they're not safe for dogs.

Soleil likes sticks a ton and she brings sticks in from outside all the time. So she's just like, okay, I'll.

I'll give this a go.

Zazie: Yeah, Yeah.

I think dogs like to chew on any kind of stick. So, okay, what is the most disgusting dog treat you've had in your pocket or on a walk and then accidentally left in your pocket and found much later?

Kristi: So,

like,

the first part was like cat food, wet cat food. But I don't think I've ever left an open tin of maybe. I actually, I probably have. So let's go with a tin of wet cat food.

Zazie: Lovely. I feel like that's gross enough to

Kristi: forget and then when it gets rotten, it's so much grosser.

Zazie: Totally.

And the next question, I feel like I know the answer because you sort of touched on it earlier, but would you prefer to groom the dogs yourself or take them to the groomer?

Kristi: If we had a groomer nearby, I would definitely take them to the groomer if we had a good groomer nearby who used like, you know, welfare forward techniques. Absolutely. I'm not into grooming.

I like them clean. I like being clean, but I. The whole process of it is not something that I,

yeah, adore for sure.

I was not the type of child who played with the Barbie head. Let's we'll put it that way.

How about you?

Zazie: I did not have a Barbie as a child because they were considered sexist. Rightly so, in my household. So no, I mean, I have to groom Pepper every day, but I prefer to take him to the groomer and get him.

He goes regularly to the groomer for a bath and a haircut and a blow dryer and I would not like to do all of that myself. I don't feel like I would do a good job of it.

Like he comes out absolutely beautiful,

especially when he's got longer hair and it's kind of all been blow dried to perfection. And if you look at my own hair, you can see I am not good at blow drying anything to perfection.

So, you know,

the groomer is definitely the best option there.

That's the end of my section.

Kristi: Okay, so my next section is,

is like this or that. In training and client counseling, the training and client counseling domain,

would you rather train a sit or train a heel?

Zazie: I would rather train a sit. It's so quick and easy and even though I've done it loads and loads and loads of times, I don't get bored of it.

I still enjoy teaching it and I used to find that as well with a short sit stay. Like I did it. I've done it so many times.

But I don't get bored of doing it. I just love it. And you get to give treats very rapidly to the dog and you can see their face while you're giving the treats.

Whereas if you're training a heel and you're position feeding the dog there next to you, you're seeing them from kind of ab. Yes, they'll be looking up expectant for their treat, but you don't get to see like their face full on in front in the same way.

So that's another reason to pick sit rather than a heel.

Kristi: Wow, great case counsellor.

Zazie: It sounds like you might pick the heel.

Kristi: I might. But I think it's only because Archer, who's the white blob behind me is, has been very tricky to train to sit even though he's, he's a one of those lifestyle guardian dogs who sits all the time.

So I'm like, I know you're comfortable sitting, Archer, but he, he just doesn't like to be lured into a sit for reason. So I had to. Eventually I went to training a tunnel down first and then you know, like sort of reverse sit training to go down first.

And he's 150 pounds, so he doesn't fit under my leg and he, so I was trying to like tunnel down like luring him under my leg that was positioned, you know, with my knee up to try and lure him into a Down.

And he went right down. It was, it was fine. But for the first couple times he was just like, I can just move you. And he'd just be like boop with his head and I'd go flying.

So he's been a challenge to train to sit.

But also I haven't trained heel that much because I just am not a heel type person. Right. So I don't have a lot of experience. The only times I've done it has been with sled dogs and they've taken to it really fast and I've always been so like, oh,

this is so gratifying. And I get to move too. So it's like a moving exercise. And maybe I, yeah, but I, yeah, I get that. Have absolutely no skill at training you.

I've only done it a couple times.

So yeah. Okay. So teaching a class or training a client, like working one on one with a client.

Zazie: Oh, that's really hard.

I actually don't know because I, I, I'm going to say teaching a class because I don't really do that very much. So that would be different and a bit new.

So I think that that will make it more fun.

And I always like teaching in other contexts. I always like teaching classes and getting that kind of getting people to talk amongst each other and you get people learning from each other as from you.

So I would pick that for that reason, but that's a really hard question.

Kristi: Yeah, it is for sure.

Zazie: Yeah. What would you pick?

Kristi: I'm not sure. You know,

both are tiring in different ways. Like with classes you have all the prep work and then doing that, projecting and, and you know,

being on, on, on is I think really tiring. But then training a client, you have, I think, you know, prep work but also homework which I detest. So yeah, I'm not sure what I,

Zazie: yeah, classes are tiring. I think being on all the time is exhausting basically.

Kristi: Yeah, yeah.

Zazie: Can I have assistance for my class? And then it makes it much easier. See again then it's an easier choice for sure.

Kristi: Yeah.

So if we assume good ABI. So that's acquired bite inhibition. So the dog, if they bite, you know, they bite without maiming force.

So assuming good ABI and somehow you magical knowledge of a good final outcome,

would you pick a dog biting dog or a dog biting human?

The dog is either biting a dog or the dog is biting the human, not the human biting the dog.

Zazie: Ah.

As you were starting to ask, I thought you were going to ask what I would prefer what kind of dog I Would prefer to bite me or something like that.

Oh,

the dog on the dog. Because, I mean, you've already said it's going to be. Have a good outcome. We know it's going to have a good outcome. But I think a lot of times when a dog is biting another dog with good bite inhibition, it's actually not necessarily that serious anyway.

So it's probably,

probably, probably going to be a bit easier to resolve, whereas there's a whole lot more emotions going into the human case. And I think it's just more challenging, probably.

What would you pick?

Kristi: I don't know. Yeah, I think.

Zazie: Yeah. So you came up with a hard question.

Kristi: There's so many other,

you know, contingencies, context and information that you kind of need. But if this is all you get,

I might pick the human biting dog because I find there are cases that are a little bit more,

I don't know,

they have a standard resolution that you know. And also it's easier for humans to manage themselves sometimes.

Yes, we know we have a good outcome. We can assume that the management works. So it's a little bit more clear. Yeah, yeah.

Zazie: And it might be that all you need is management in that case, because we know that the dog. Goodbye inhibition. So, yeah, for sure that helps.

Kristi: Yeah. Okay, would you pick. And this is cat cases, A litter box issue or a multi cat issue?

Zazie: A litter box issue.

Okay.

Multi cat issues, I think they can be quite difficult and I mean,

obviously in both cases there's a lot that people might need to do, but I think I feel like you cannot guarantee that two cats are going to learn to like each other and get on with each other necessarily.

They might always going to be hating on each other.

Whereas an intractable litter box case, I feel like that's less likely. So I guess ongoing, by which I think is more likely to have a good outcome that's easier to reach.

Kristi: Right,

yeah, I got it.

I don't do cats, so I have no say in that. I literally have no idea.

So this one is harder, I think trickier.

So a marking dog. So a dog who marks inside with an aversive adherent father or a jumpy golden with an overly busy month.

Zazie: Oh, I'll pick the jumpy golden because sometimes when people are using aversives, they can be very averse to changing their ways and there is a lot that they have to learn.

So even though a very busy person maybe doesn't have much time to devote to training,

at least you don't have to have that initial thing of persuading them to try something that's different than what they're expecting to do.

So I think the aversives, the person wanting to use aversives can be quite a difficult counseling thing sometimes because people are used to this approach,

and especially if there are gender dynamics involved, they perhaps think that they know better, even though they have had to go to someone else to seek help. So, I mean, in both cases, I mean, you know, nothing wrong with either person, but just from the perspective of someone taking that client,

that's probably what's preferable to me.

Kristi: Yeah, same. I'd pick a Golden client.

Zazie: I've joked about, oh, yes, Golden's are lovely.

Kristi: I used to take clients. I've joked about doing an all golden practice.

Zazie: Wouldn't that be cool? Yes, all Goldens are all Goldens and Labs because they're such lovely dogs.

All dogs are lovely. But, you know, there's something quite special and there's a reason they're such popular dog breeds, I think.

Kristi: Yeah. Okay. So you're either one, your client won't stop clicking with terrible timing, or your client fails at unimportant but helpful management.

Zazie: Oh, that's challenging.

Why would I prefer them to be failing?

I think the timing is probably actually easier to fix in some ways because management can be a lot of effort for people. And it's completely understandable both of these. It's completely understandable that people might be struggling with, but management requires sometimes a lot of effort and it feels like a lot to do.

And people think it should be the dog that's changing rather than them. So I think people can find that really tough.

Whereas I feel like helping someone to get better at timing, in most cases, it's not quite as hard to deal with. And they're also probably very willing to try and get quicker.

Whereas with management, people can be quite reluctant sometimes.

So that's what I would pick. What would you pick?

Kristi: Yeah, probably the same thing. And I think my reason would be like, the dog is probably not paying attention to the clicking at this point anyway. If they're, if they're misclicking all the time, I'd probably just be like, okay, well, that's unimportant information to the dog.

So we can just,

you know, it's not helpful. The dog's not paying attention to it. Like, you know, we, we do all this effort to try and. Yeah,

but yeah.

Zazie: Oh, you could just, you could abandon the clicker as well and see if that helps. Because most people, you can get your

Kristi: client to abandon the Clicker. Depending on client.

Zazie: Yeah, yeah. Because most people love a clicker, but there are some people who really don't like using it and they find it a bit clunky. So if it was one of those people, then you could just say, okay, well, we won't use a clicker this time.

It's fine. You know,

it's a choice for sure.

Kristi: I remember I was in a dog park once with one of the sled dogs that we had in our rescue and in Winnipeg. And. And my. The dog. You know this.

The sled dog ran up to a person who was in the park who obviously was wearing a bait pouch. So I was immediately like, I bet you're. I bet you're on my team.

Oh, my God, he's so pretty. Can I give him a treat? And I was like, yeah, go ahead. So she reaches into her baby bag, she pulls out a clicker, she points it at his face,

clicks,

gives him a treat. And I was like, oh,

I just love you so much.

But that is so hilarious.

Zazie: If only everyone on their walk had a bait bag with treats to give to all the dogs that they were allowed to give treats to.

Kristi: Yes. Yeah. Everything about it was just perfect.

Zazie: Yeah, that's lovely. Totally adorable.

Kristi: Okay, so this is, I think, a very. Also a hard one.

So you have given behavior advice to a client. The client says,

one of these two, which would you pick as easier to handle? But my vet said.

Or.

But my breeder said.

Zazie: Oh, dear.

I would actually go with but my vet said.

Because I feel like the breeder got in there much earlier and they've had that advice from the breeder, so they've been hanging onto it for much, much longer. Whereas the advice from the vet is newer.

Although,

I mean,

sometimes we have to listen to what the vets say, and sometimes we have to.

It's just challenging either way, if they are giving. If someone else is giving contradictory advice, and we never actually know if that is what was really said or if that's just what the person thinks they heard.

So either way, it can be very, very challenging. It's always difficult. So that's a hard question. I don't like that one.

Kristi: I don't know what I'd pick for that one either. Probably just if I just go, like, off the top of my head. Yeah, I'd probably. I don't know.

Zazie: That's hard.

Kristi: Pro. I'd probably go with breeder. I think because they have a continuing relationship with their vet and their breeder. They're probably. Unless they keep going Back to the same breeder and, you know, acquiring more dogs.

That was just like they heard it once a long time ago. But yeah, it is going to be tough. Yeah. Okay. And my final tricky one. You have a slot for one client and you have two options you can pick and you know, one is dominance adherent and the other is anti vax.

Zazie: Well, the vaccinations are actually nothing to do with me because I'm not a vet. So that is someone else's problem.

The dominance adherence. I'm probably going to have to talk to them for quite a while.

Either way, I might be having to persuade them. I will take either client.

I love all my clients.

I can't choose between these two.

Kristi: So much for a hot gossip sesh Zazie.

Zazie: But I mean, I haven't had anyone try and talk to me about dominance for a long time. So maybe I'll pick that person because I haven't had those discussions in quite a while.

And if it's something that they want to talk about, I don't mind discussing it with them.

Kristi: Nice. Okay, that's great answer.

Zazie: You came up with some tough questions there.

Kristi: I still got a few more, but that was done.

Zazie: That, that section's done. Okay, so this is an open ended question. What do you think is the most overrated thing to teach a dog?

Kristi: Oh, the most overrated thing to teach a dog. Oh, God.

Like the vast majority of obedience behaviors except for recall, essentially.

I don't know. Oh my God.

Okay, this is.

Now this is just. He's gonna shine a little flashlight into my own head. And it's not anything true at all. But when people are doing their little dance routines, which I adore, I love it when people do that with their dog.

I think it's amazing. And I love watching them. But they,

they have that thing where they lay down and then they have the dog come and give them CPR by jumping on them.

It. It annoys me because.

Because it sort of sets up this weird expectation that your dog will rescue you when that's not true. And also it's like they're using like a mouse pounce type behavior, which isn't CPR at all.

So for some reason it just annoys me that there's not an alignment.

I don't know why that's something that just gets on my nerves. I just me. Just me.

Zazie: Well, you just said my dog won't rescue me, so, you know, I'm shocked and horrified.

Of course, he's a little shih tzu. He would find it quite hard to rescue me in many circumstances.

Kristi: But he'd have to get up on a table and drop down onto your chest. His whole body.

Zazie: Yes.

Kristi: What do you think's overrated? Did you have something in mind when you wrote that?

Zazie: Well, I personally don't normally bother teaching a heel because I don't think it's needed for you. Unless you're wanting to do a competition.

Then of course it's not overrated at all. But in normal life, I don't think you actually need your dog to heal and stay on one side of you. You just need them to not pull.

So I guess that's what I would pick. But training is just fun anyway, so if you enjoy teaching, then nothing that you enjoy teaching is overrated anyway. So. Okay,

so this is a question. We have to imagine Apricat is indoors only and money is no object.

Which would you prefer to make for Apricat? High up shelves and walkways all around the house or a little catio by the front door?

Kristi: If money's an object, I would go with a big catio. Yeah, yeah.

Zazie: I thought, as I said that, if money's no object, you could actually go with both. Anyway, let's say you had a tent.

Kristi: That would only work with one. You're in a zoning issue. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I would probably pick a patio. He already has quite a bit of upper space that he does make use of.

So,

yeah, that's something new.

But I do love those. Seeing the cats walk across those little pathways and stuff.

Zazie: Yeah,

yeah, I love those too, definitely. Okay, so if your cat needs a blood draw at the vet and the vet says you can be present,

would you rather be there or not be there for sure.

Kristi: Yep. Yeah. Same with you.

Zazie: Yeah. Yeah. And I'm lucky. I'm not squeamish. I mean, because some people are squeamish at the sight of blood and can't,

just can't. And I think that's absolutely fine. If you can't do it, then don't try and do it.

Kristi: But.

Zazie: But for me, I would rather be there. Okay, my last question for you is, what is the best trick to teach a cat? It's an open ended one again.

Kristi: Oh.

So I started teaching this, but I couldn't actually figure out a training plan because I'm not particularly skilled at training cats. But I wanted to train Apricat to rear up on his hind legs on a, like a circus cat.

And I would hold a little chair out. You know, I'd be like, I never got, never finished it. But I had that as a training plan in my mind and I thought it would be super cute with one of those little tiny plastic doll chairs kind of thing.

Zazie: That would be super cute.

Kristi: Yeah,

it was harder.

I got him up, but then I found it harder and harder to fade the lure.

So maybe I should have been clicking. I don't know.

Zazie: Then he's meowing to say, I know I'm being talked about.

Kristi: Yeah, he's on my lap.

Zazie: Okay, that was the last of my questions.

Kristi: Okay, so now I have dogs. So you have to pick one dog or the other for yourself. Brachycephalic or chondrodystrophic?

Zazie: Brachycephalic. Okay. That's the long. Long. The long face rather than the short face if I have to choose between.

Kristi: Or the short legs like.

Zazie: Oh, short legs. Oh, sorry. Yes. Okay.

Short legs rather than, I think short legs rather than short face. Even though I have a flat faced dog and I love him very, very much, but I,

there are more health issues and I see some of those health issues in him.

So I would not pick the flat faced dog personally.

Kristi: Yeah, I, I think I probably would too. Yeah, same. And I found with the more we learn about what brachyphalic dogs deal with, the harder it is to look at them and not just see them for the suffering, you know,

and maybe that's the same with the short leg dogs. I, you know, and we just haven't, it, it hasn't become a meme yet.

Zazie: But yeah, maybe, I mean, Pepper actually does have little short legs as well. And we had some snow recently. I felt really sorry for him because of his little legs. Like the snow.

It wasn't much snow at all. We've had hardly any snow this winter. But it was enough that it came up his like, I didn't think it was enough to shovel, but it turned out it was more than he liked.

He only likes a little tiny bit because he's only got little legs. So.

Kristi: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. So now that I have a dog that drools, this is on my mind. Dog that drools or doodle coat.

Zazie: Doodle coat. I love doodles.

Kristi: Wow. You'd pick a doodle coat over. Okay, all right.

Zazie: Not I, no, but I mean, I'm used to grooming a shih Tzu, so.

Kristi: Yeah.

Zazie: Yes. So I mean, it's much bigger but. But can go to the grooms often, so. And I, I love doodles. So yeah, I'm picking the doodle.

Kristi: Nice.

Zazie: Okay, good.

Kristi: I would pick. I think I'd picked it now That I have a drooler and they're in my heart, you know, it's, I've gotten used to it, even though it is a thing,

you know?

Zazie: Yeah.

Kristi: Who had two big really drooly dogs and she had a stack of, of cloths that they would have that she just had all the time ready.

And I think they just washed them and put them so they were like, like cloth cloths.

And she, she, I think she was sort of like, don't judge me. And I'm like, I'm not judging you, man. That's awesome.

Zazie: Yeah, that's really good. A great way.

Kristi: The constant drawing.

Zazie: Yeah. Impressive.

Kristi: Okay. Golden retriever puppy or adult wolfhound?

Zazie: Adult wolfhound. I love wolfhounds. Yeah,

I mean, I love golden retrievers, too. I mean, that's what makes this so hard. But I, I, I, I have a thing for the adult dogs anyway, so. Yeah, adult wolfhound.

That's actually not a hard question. I would have thought it would be, but it's not.

Kristi: It's not. Yeah, Yeah. I think I probably would too go with the adult wolfhound.

Yeah. Just. Puppies are a lot of work. I love them, but they are a lot of work. And for talking about, I'm bringing this animal into my home. Yeah.

Okay.

Pittie with intractable skin stuff or any dog with sep anx.

Zazie: Well,

I think the thing with the piddy with the. I'm going to pick the dog with sep anx because I think that you can do quite a lot to prevent that suffering, even though it means you now can't go out until you've trained, taught this dog that it's safe for you to go out and they can be comfortable,

but you can at least find people to do that. Whereas with the skin issues,

you're going to the vet all the time.

I mean, I'm not a vet, but I don't know how easy that is to resolve. So that's why I'm picking the sepanx.

Kristi: Yeah, I would too, I think, because you can just, yeah. You can immediately alleviate their suffering, I think. Yeah.

Zazie: Yeah, you can do something right away and just say, I'm never going out again without leaving somebody at home with you,

you know, not going out for any longer than you can handle. And then you can work on that TR training. Whereas the bulldog with the skin issues, I mean, that's, that's, that's how they're suffering quite a bit.

Yeah.

Kristi: Yeah, it's very hard, for sure.

Zazie: Okay, well, that's all I had. Oh, this has been fun.

Kristi: Yeah, kind of. You have to delve into your own psyche a bit to even come up with the questions, I think.

Zazie: Yeah, I think so. I think so. So thank you for coming up with all those questions. It wasn't as bad as I was dreading.

Kristi: Good.

I mean, no, not good. We need to do it again. I need to think of hard.

So dog versus cat ones were really gonna get you. Cause you'd be like, I can't pick a dog versus a cat. So I thought those were particularly evil, but you handled it with aplomb.

So there we go.

Zazie: Well, and I guess, like this, I picked some questions for you that I would find really hard, and then you didn't find them hard at all. So that. That just.

I think you're right. When you say the question, say something about the questioner as well as the person who answers them. So. Yeah. Good. And if you're listening to this and you have strong feelings about answers to any of these questions, we would love to know what your answers are too,

because I think it's all very, very individual.

And in many cases, there's no right answers. And, of course, we love all the dogs and all the cats, and that's what makes it difficult to choose when you're put on the spot and you have to choose between one or the other.

Yeah, for sure. Okay, so it is time to move on to the book section. What have you been reading recently, Kristi?

Kristi: Okay. I finished a little while ago a book called. Oh, and again, we've got the thing, called Crier's War by Nina Varela. It's a fantasy novel, which. I almost never read fantasy novels, but it was recommended to me.

And it's got, like. It's like a Sapphic romance fantasy novel.

But.

And I think it was.

It came with high ratings for people who like fantasy.

But I. I personally did not adore it as much as I hoped I would, because I find the world. I think I'm just a very lazy reader, and I kind of want the story to hop along a little bit more quickly.

Maybe I prefer the imaginary worlds I come up with in my own head rather than it being sort of, like, created for me with prose. I'm not sure, but we.

You know, it was about the two main characters. One was human and one was. I think they called it made like. It's like semiautomaton, an automaton with like a.

A human gloss kind of thing.

So you. You can see that they start to fall for each other over these great. You Know, conflicts that they have and one is trying to kill the other one and you know, for previous harms for her family.

And you know, I know that it relates to like actual human themes, but it, I found it a little overwrought but I was like, I'm gonna stick it out and I'm just gonna get to the end of this 13 hour audiobook.

And then I got to the end and it was only halfway and then there was a book two and I

was like, come on. So now you gotta.

But if you love fantasy and you want something that you know,

has this like the epic world building but also then this like the lesbian sort of undertones, I think it's.

It will probably check all of your boxes. But for me I was,

I like, like more fight em up, beat em up,

move the story along, super quick kind of story. So didn't check my boxes but it was in it. It's interesting to, to like check out other types of books every once in a while.

Right. And see maybe my tastes have changed.

Zazie: Yeah, for sure. And it sounds like it has big themes to it anyway. So.

Yeah. So I think the difference with an audiobook is you can't control the pace at which you're reading. Whereas at least with a book that you're reading yourself, you can read a bit faster if you want to or skip ahead if you want to.

And that is a little bit different. But yeah, well, I am sure someone listening to this will think that sounds like just my kind of book. So.

Kristi: Yeah, or maybe they read it and loved it and are going to come out. Bring it on.

Zazie: Yeah. If you've read it and loved it, let us know.

I have been reading. I finished Detective Auntie and this is by Uzma Jalaluddin, who's a Canadian writer.

And I absolutely love this book. This book is for all the aunties out there.

So Detective Aunty Kausar is.

She's in her 50s, she lives somewhere north of Toronto. Her husband died a year ago. She hasn't been back to Toronto where she used to live for a long time because something bad had happened there.

And she gets a phone call from her adult daughter who has kids to say, I need help because I'm at the police station because a man was killed and he was found dead in my shop.

So she is potentially on the hook for murder. So Kausar goes, she goes to stay with her daughter. She has to rebuild her relationship with her daughter and she happens to be someone who notices things a lot and she loves Agatha Christie novels.

So she has to find out is her daughter guilty, who actually did the murder and why did they do the murder.

And it's just,

it's just a wonderful book. It's a really fun book.

And it's, it's. Yeah, it's so. It's a cozy, it's a cozy, cozy mystery. And it's just, it's just really nice. I absolutely loved it. She's a really compelling character. She's a little bit nosy and I like people who are a little bit nosy and of course she goes into things.

People are sometimes interacting with her as a woman in their 50s who they're not going to pay much attention to and sometimes she thinks they're going to interact with her like that, but they are onto her.

So it's really fun and it's really.

You have to wait right to the end to find out who done it.

And it's just really well written and it has a really good pace all the way through. So I loved it.

Kristi: Good. Sounds great.

Zazie: So thank you to everyone for listening to this show. I want to give a special shout out today to our listeners in Sydney, New South Wales.

Thank you for being with us and wherever you are listening or watching from, we're thrilled to have you here. Do let us know what you thought of this episode and what answers you would give to those questions.

And if you've enjoyed it, as always, please tell a friend about it so that they can enjoy it too. And we will see you next time. Bye!

Kristi: Bye bye.

Zazie: Thank you for listening to The Pawsitive Post in conversation.

If you liked this episode, please subscribe to the show and write us a review via your podcast app. For the show notes, visit companionanimalpsychology.com This show was produced by Zazie Todd.

The music is Melody from Paris by Studio Lebus. See you next time.