Revisiting The 1979 TV movie "Like Normal People"

A love story once treated as a legal problem becomes a lesson in dignity, courage, and change. We revisit the 1979 TV movie Like Normal People and explore how Roger and Virginia’s relationship forced a conversation about who gets to love, marry, work, and decide for themselves. Shaun Cassidy’s turn from teen idol to serious actor anchors a true story that confronted the era’s harsh language, widespread myths, and reflex to institutionalize anyone who didn’t fit a narrow mold.

 At an assisted living home, a tender connection with Virginia becomes a civil rights test. Hand-holding and kissing are policed; the couple answers with a simple line that still resonates: we just want to be like normal people. Their wedding is more than ceremony; it’s a public argument for adulthood on their own terms. We also reflect on family dynamics—a brother’s ambitions, parents under strain—and why autonomy means honoring every voice at the table.

Watch the film on YouTube and join us in seeing it with fresh eyes. If this story moved you, share the episode, leave a review, and tell us: what does “normal” even mean when love keeps rewriting the rules? 

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Transcript

Setting The Stage: A Risky Love Story

SPEAKER_00 0:01

My brother Roger and Virginia, the girl he loved, were retarded. They were also smart, funny, tough, stubborn, and very determined to get married. The trouble was, nobody else shared their enthusiasm. In their romance, as in their lives, they were bucking the odds all the way to the book.

SPEAKER_02 1:19

Please join us for the stories and memories that connected us to those happy days that helped create the Sean Squad Society podcast.

SPEAKER_04 1:28

Hey Dereese, do you remember back in the 70s that uh movie of the week they used to have?

SPEAKER_03 1:34

Oh yeah, on TV. The movie of the week would come on once a week and they would show something. On ABC. I think all the networks did it, but yeah, of course, we were big ABC watchers, so we only saw the months on ABC. I remember those movies. I think I used to watch them all the time, but I thought they used to show them because there was nothing else on their programming for that month. Oh, right. So they said, hey, let's just put some movies in to show something. And I used to enjoy them.

SPEAKER_04 2:11

And it was about an interesting subject every time.

SPEAKER_03 2:14

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 2:15

You know, they wanted to mean something with that movie of the week.

Shaun Cassidy Breaks The Teen Idol Mold

SPEAKER_03 2:18

I don't know if I got it then that they were like interesting, more, you know, stories that meant something. But, you know, looking back now, I realized that is kind of what they were doing.

SPEAKER_04 2:33

Well, we did focus on it in 1979 because a special movie came out. Yeah. Sean Cassidy and Linda Pearl. Yeah, can you believe that? I was surprised by it.

SPEAKER_03 2:45

They did like normal people. Yep. Now, anybody who was a Sean Cassidy fan in the 70s knew the Duran Ron and the Hardy Boys. Nobody was expecting. Nobody saw this coming. Nobody. No, no, no. He turned around and did a movie based on a real life couple and their challenge with getting married because they were mentally challenged back there. Yes. And you know what, Cindy? For a second, let's talk about this. They called them retarded. I know. Bad word. And when I watched the movie and I first heard the mom use that term, retarded, Roger's mom, there were Roger and Virginia Myers. Um, I was like cringing. Because in today's world, you don't use the You don't use that word. They call them developmentally delayed. Or intellectually challenged? There's different words, but not retarded. Not retarded, no. And to hear it, and I almost turned the movie off because I'm like, can I watch this? That's gonna be hard to watch. But it kept going and it and the movie grabbed me that the outdated phrase didn't seem to bother me so much.

SPEAKER_04 4:16

Right. And even though we knew Sean Cassidy was in it, I was glued to it for the story because I really wasn't I didn't know what to expect.

SPEAKER_03 4:25

Right. Back then I certainly didn't know what to expect, and it's been all of those years since I've seen it.

SPEAKER_04 4:31

I mean, we're dealing with Sean Cassidy as a teen idol, and now he's in this movie about something totally different. And it just threw us all off, I think. Because I wasn't really expecting this.

SPEAKER_03 4:43

Yeah, it you know, he took this dramatic turn. Yes. Before he was known as Joe Hardy. And, you know, singing and going around doing his concerts, and then this opportunity came up and it gave him an opportunity to get out of that stereotype, if you will, as uh bubblegum pop artists.

SPEAKER_04 5:09

I didn't expect him to be so serious so soon, I think is what I was confused about. I really didn't know he would do this kind of character at this point in his career, but I think he did a great job.

Language Then And Now: Rethinking Labels

SPEAKER_03 5:23

Well, we did a little research and it says he intentionally chose it early in his career. He actively pursued more serious roles. And that project was a deliberate move to distance him from his bubblegum pop fame. Yep. He did that on purpose.

SPEAKER_04 5:44

Right. Which, of course, any person that's creative wants to be diverse. Yes. You know, sing, act, you know, different things. And I think Sean was thinking about, I don't know if he was thinking about being a writer at that point, but stories, you know, he's a storyteller.

SPEAKER_03 6:02

Correct. And maybe it because he said he always was a storyteller. So maybe in the back of his mind, he thought, this role, it's a very good story.

SPEAKER_04 6:13

It's a real life story of this couple, and back then in the 70s, to really fight for your independence when you have a disability, this was new. Well, I think it really took place in the 60s.

SPEAKER_03 6:26

Rogers seemed to have grown up in the 50s and 60s. Right. Um, his brother, his real life brother, uh Robert Meyer, wrote the book based on their story. And Robert Meyer is in the movie. They his uh character is called Bobby. So Bobby was definitely Roger's brother, and the movie starts. You could tell it's in the late or mid-50s, because they show Roger as a little baby, and the grandmother is looking at him, and there's something not right. Right. And she tells her daughter, have you noticed? and the daughter is all like in denial.

SPEAKER_04 7:11

And I don't know back then, yeah. Back then, I don't know if they did pediatrics and stages like developmental stages. Right. I know today they do that, but back then in the 50s, I don't know if they had developmental milestones.

SPEAKER_03 7:27

I don't think they had come. I wouldn't know. I've never had a kid, and I certainly wasn't born around in the 50s, but I don't think they had come that far yet.

SPEAKER_04 7:36

Because my kids, I remember that like at each age, they have to have some kind of developmental stage they're at.

SPEAKER_03 7:42

I remember in the movie the grandma asking her daughter about Roger, and she said, I take him to the doctor, and his doctor says he's perfectly healthy. So they were looking at his physical health, not his developmental health.

SPEAKER_04 7:58

Right. Physically, he looked like a normal baby.

SPEAKER_03 8:01

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 8:02

But I think, you know, moms have instincts about kids.

SPEAKER_03 8:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 8:07

And she had an instinct.

Roger’s Early Life, Poetry, And Bullying

SPEAKER_03 8:08

Yeah. And so they find out. Pursue that. They pursue it, and they find out, yes, he does have what they called then mental retardation. Yep. And I'm like, oh, I don't know if I can watch. But but it turned out that it didn't stop him. In fact, he just seemed to soar. He went to camp and they discovered at camp that he was really good at writing. He wrote poetry. Poetry that you would think a grown adult person wrote. And this was a kid in camp. He was bullied. Bullied. I didn't like those scenes. Yeah. But his camp counselors were like, this is not bad of a kid that's mentally retarded. And one of the voiceovers I remember, his mom, they put in these little voiceover parts. His mom saying, Had he gone a little bit the other way, he would have been a junior. Right?

SPEAKER_04 9:07

He was right there. So he must have been higher up on the spectrum.

SPEAKER_03 9:11

Right. So they show Roger grow up with the help of his brother Bobby. He got through some tough times at night. I really like it. Poor Bobby, though. I like the scenes when Roger was a real little boy and Bobby just wanted to go to sleep, but Roger had to hold his hand. Yes. Yes. I mean, Bobby just had to hold Roger's hand.

SPEAKER_04 9:34

So he knew somebody was there.

SPEAKER_03 9:36

Yeah. So he grew up and he went to school and um he learned he actually did well, I guess.

SPEAKER_05 9:45

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03 9:46

Because they show him later as an older, like out of high school age teenager. And now the mom, there's a lot of sub-stories.

SPEAKER_04 9:57

Yes, there are. Between him and his brother, the parents, the facility.

SPEAKER_03 10:03

So I guess the mom had kind of gotten into drinking too much because the pressure was too much.

SPEAKER_04 10:09

But people didn't know how to handle it back then. There was no support.

Family Strain And The Move To L.A.

SPEAKER_03 10:12

There there was a need for a lot of money. There certainly wasn't a lot of uh financial help through the government. So she was saying she couldn't do it, and the doctor was saying, let's put Roger in a state-run institution. Right. And the dad said, Let's go to LA. And they said, and Roger wrote a little poem. Well, his mom said, LA will be okay. And Roger said, Mom, you wrote a poem. LA B OK. So I guess they went to LA.

SPEAKER_04 10:45

Yeah, he had some cute little scenes there.

SPEAKER_03 10:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 10:49

Yeah. And that was good. And then they showed, um, I believe after that, they showed Sean as an adult. Or was it was he still a teenager when he worked at the YMCA? So they get to LA. He's about 19. Okay. So he was, yeah, working by then. Yeah, he got his own job. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 11:08

He, I guess he got tired of sitting around the house, so he would go to the the Y every day. And one day he asked this guy, can I help you with anything? And he did so good with putting those towels away. The guy gave him a job. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 11:21

He was well into being independent and making money. And he didn't think twice about that.

SPEAKER_03 11:28

Everything. And he came home all mom. I got a job all by myself. He was so proud of himself. And he did so well that they let him do like the coin giving out change at the the little dance they had.

SPEAKER_04 11:45

Yes, they had a little dance too.

First Job, First Dance, First Misjudgment

SPEAKER_03 11:47

That was cute. And um, I guess younger kids were at the dance, and this girl, she comes up and she kind of crushes on Roger, and she tells him, Everybody makes fun of you, but I think you're cute. And she mentions that she loves Donnie Osma. Oh, okay. And she said, Who do you like? And he said, Elton John. Ah. Now that made me stop and think. I wonder if Roger really liked Elton John or if Sean was of himself in there.

SPEAKER_04 12:24

Because Sean is a connection with Elton John and Bernie Toppin.

SPEAKER_03 12:28

He loved Elton John all along. So I'm like, well, I wonder if they take a little creative liberty there. I wonder.

SPEAKER_04 12:36

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 12:36

But he had a crush on that little girl, and he wanted to send her Valentine. What happened there, Cindy?

SPEAKER_04 12:44

Oh, yeah, with the Valentine. I believe he got in trouble because they thought he wrote her nasty card.

SPEAKER_03 12:53

It was a letter with words that they said, and the term they used was pornographic. Yes. And it was obviously bad enough that the FBI had to get involved because at the time Roger was considered an adult and she was a minor. Right. So he mailed a card that was completely innocent. Yes. But another classmate of hers mailed this horrible letter. Yep. And they come to Roger at his little job at the Y, and they accuse him of all these horrible things. Yep. And the mom, of course, goes to the police station. Oh, she comes to his rescue.

SPEAKER_04 13:40

And she's all over it. She's all over that. My son doesn't even know these words, you know. He's developmentally delayed. How does he know these words they're using in this letter?

SPEAKER_03 13:51

And if you would have thought about it, you would know that, she tells him.

SPEAKER_04 13:56

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 13:57

And again, the t the term retarded shows up, and Roger hears it. And maybe that was the first time he ever heard his mom.

SPEAKER_04 14:06

Yeah, because he asked his mom, Am I retarded?

SPEAKER_03 14:10

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 14:10

Because he never thought that.

SPEAKER_03 14:12

Yep. And she was so apologetic for saying that. And that was another part that really touched me because that back then they just wanted to pan anything horrible on a person that seemed less able to defend themselves.

SPEAKER_04 14:36

They targeted them and uh totally not fair, but that's what they did back then.

SPEAKER_03 14:41

And Roger wasn't even like he said, I don't know what this means, and his mom.

SPEAKER_05 14:47

Yeah.

“Normal” On Trial: Rights And Myths

SPEAKER_03 14:48

And everybody came to his rescue, and of course it turned out okay. But do you remember one scene when Roger said, Mom, is the boy who wrote that letter retarded? And his mom said, No, Roger, he's perfectly normal. I thought, how in the world, in today's world, that kid would not have been told that the boy who wrote that letter is perfectly normal, because obviously that kid was disturbed in another way.

SPEAKER_04 15:28

Right. And I can I'm only thinking about how the mom is thinking as she's saying this to him. No, Roger, he was normal.

SPEAKER_03 15:35

Like, I see the term normal. Let's talk about that. Dug into me. The term normal, the whole movie is about Roger and Virginia wanting to be treated like normal people. And have rights. And today's world, that term normal is so loose because what's normal? Right. Oh, you know, you have all kinds of people that have done all kinds of things to get their rights to be who they are. The LGBTQ movement. Right. And all of those have changed the way the word normal is used. Right. So when that when his mom said, No, Roger, he's perfectly normal. I went, oh, that wouldn't fly too. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 16:27

Because he's not. And Roger has this look on his face, like, I don't know, what is does he know what normal is? Because he didn't know he was retarded. Right.

SPEAKER_03 16:37

He only knew normal from the standards of what they taught him. And so that that kind of that's when I first started thinking how the movie is different today than if they were to do it today, then they they did it back then.

SPEAKER_04 16:55

But I don't think they did a movie back then about this issue. This is like brand new subject in that era. Because nobody talked about that.

SPEAKER_03 17:04

They didn't have rights. So let's talk about that. Those the people, Roger and Virginia played by Sean and Linda Pearl, did not have normal basic human right to get married. At the end of the show, it said in 1979, when that movie ended, it said 25% of the states in the United States outlawed marriage between retarded people. Really? A quarter of the states in the United States. So this movie drastically came in and started changing.

SPEAKER_04 17:50

Yes, and also ABC invested heavily in socially conscious TV films. This was part of it. Yes. And these movies were often sparked public discussion with these movies. Like people really talked about it.

Meeting Virginia And Finding Purpose

SPEAKER_03 18:03

Yes. Mm-hmm. So now you have this on the table. Now it's on the table. Now it's on the table. I remember in the movie someone touched on a little bit that they confused their mental challenges with the behavior of psychosis. Oh wow. They weren't, they thought, like they said, they thought these people were having babies and burning them. What? That was in the movie. I never heard of oh wow. And I said, what? That's crazy. They confused developmental issues with true psychotic issues. And they thought that people with these challenges shouldn't be allowed to marry or have children. Yeah. Because they would burn the kids.

SPEAKER_04 18:55

Oh my gosh. Can you believe that? Oh boy, we've come a long way since then.

SPEAKER_03 19:00

So this man, I forget the name of the house that the mom fought. She wanted Roger to go live in this more like a semi-independent, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 19:12

Like assisted living type of thing. Exactly. Yeah. And she fought to get him in there. Yeah. And he got in.

SPEAKER_03 19:18

And he got in. Remember when he first got there? He didn't want to be there. Yeah. He got out of the car. It's raining. I don't want to be here. Well, let's give it a chance. Yeah. Okay. I don't want to be here. Well, let's go in. Nope. Don't want to be here. And then what changed his mind?

SPEAKER_04 19:37

Well, he met somebody there. Who did he meet? Uh, he met a girl. She was uh what? She out there planting flowers or something. She was working in the garden. She was um she was doing some kind of art. It was a bunny. Yes. Yes. That's where her nickname came from. He called her bunny.

SPEAKER_03 19:58

And he walked up to her and he said, Is that Bugs Bunny? And she said, It's Mrs. Bugs Bunny. And looked at Emma, walked away.

SPEAKER_04 20:10

I thought you go, girl. She got an attitude too. They're great together. So, right back at you.

SPEAKER_03 20:17

Now, there's a counselor who was trying to convince Roger, maybe you want to give us a chance, Roger. Let's see. I'll let you work with me. You can help me with the other kids. And he was not feeling it until he met the girl and he said, Well, who's the girl? And he's the counselor said, That's Virginia. And if you stay, I'll have her show you around tomorrow. And he, okay, I'm staying. There you go. All you have to do is have a girl show up. Just right there.

SPEAKER_04 20:51

And I'm and I'm like, oh, Roger, he's not leaving now. He's not leaving now. He has a purpose.

Love Rules Collide With House Rules

SPEAKER_03 20:58

Yeah. So that's how it started. That's how they met. They met at the um, like you said, the assistant living, and they they got to hang out and play play games in the game room and watch movies or TV. Roger was teasing her. Now, Roger had sort of a sense of humor. Oh, he does. He he was teasing her and he comes up to her while she's planting flowers and said, I'm gonna ask a girl to the dance tonight. And and she was like, Oh, Roger, what girl? He said, The a very pretty girl. Oh, Roger, and he said, The prettiest girl here. And she has no idea. And she wasn't getting she has no idea what he's talking about. And that's when he told her what girl? Yeah. Yep, it was her. It was her. I thought that was cute. I'm like, Roger is a little bit of a nuisance. He could be he could be funny and just, you know.

SPEAKER_04 21:57

Yes, he could be. But like you said, he's high reported. On the spectrum, so he's got you know personality there, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 22:05

So they met, they fell in love. The whole movie is about them connecting and falling in love and fighting even in the living space for their be they wanted to be like a couple, a normal couple, and uh the lady tells them you guys can't be going around holding hands.

SPEAKER_04 22:28

Well, they started kissing, and kissing, yeah. They started kissing, they started holding hands, and the people there are like, What is this what is this behavior?

SPEAKER_03 22:36

And you know, what is going on here? And Roger said, Well, I guess we're gonna have to go and do it a way where people can't see us because we're not stopping.

SPEAKER_04 22:48

Remember, the lady pulled them in the office, right? That's the lady. Yeah, they'd just sit down, serious talk, and the lady's like, you can't do that. You cannot be doing that. And what does he say? He said, Why? Yeah, why can't we do that? Yeah, see uh he wanted a real legitimate reason. She's like, it doesn't look good. He's like, Why? Are other people do it? They're not doing something that other people don't do. He couldn't figure it out, and that's what he said.

SPEAKER_03 23:16

We just wanna, and again, the term came up. He said, we just want to be like normal people.

SPEAKER_04 23:22

I think he's the first one that said it in the movie. He said that movie line. Yes. Mm-hmm. We just want to be like normal people, they hold hands, they hold hands, they kiss. Why can't we?

SPEAKER_01 23:36

Because we're not gonna stop kissing. This is penis. We're not children. We're people. And when normal people love each other, they hold hands. And they kiss. That's that's what Virginia and me are gonna be. We're gonna be like normal people.

SPEAKER_03 24:15

And then the lady, I guess, had no answer because they were holding against it.

SPEAKER_04 24:21

But I'm glad they stood their ground. Yes. Instead of saying, oh, okay, we're not gonna do that. They were like, no, this is what we want to do, and they know other people can do it. Why can't they do it? That's Roger had a very independent way of thinking. The whole time. So I give his parents credit for that too, because I'm sure they were always supporting him. Yes. And they let him become independent, they let him become like a normal person. Yeah. So he couldn't figure out why these other people were saying they couldn't.

SPEAKER_03 24:54

Because remember, his mom told him, You're gonna be somebody. She always wanted more for him. And right. And that that kind of touches on a little bit about his brother Bob because they did work harder with Roger. Right. And poor Bobby had dreams and aspirations, and and he kind of felt like he wasn't getting the support. He was gonna he was deserved.

SPEAKER_04 25:24

Yeah, I mean, he was there too to support his brother like his parents did, but then yeah, other kids in the family wanted have some attention too. I mean, he understood his brother had disabilities, but where was his attention? Where was his?

SPEAKER_03 25:39

And that night when Roger, the mom wanted Bobby to help Roger get this deal with this book agent. And Bobby said, But mom, I've got the the agent, I'm meeting with the agent for me. I have always wanted to be a writer, but nobody asked me. Right. And the dad said, Bobby, you don't need help. And he said, Whatever gave you that idea. Mm-hmm. And that's when I knew they weren't gonna make a deal of it, but maybe Bobby wasn't getting all the support.

SPEAKER_04 26:16

Right. So bring it to his parents' attention. This is how I'm feeling.

SPEAKER_03 26:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 26:20

You know, I love my brother, I help my brother, but I'm your kid too.

SPEAKER_03 26:25

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 26:26

Where's my attention?

Proving Readiness: Work, Home, And Roles

SPEAKER_03 26:28

So he was so independent, Roger. He just had this strong will, this independence. And he was like, I'm gonna marry Virginia. I'm marrying me some Virginia. Ain't nobody gonna stop me either.

SPEAKER_04 26:41

That's right. And then they had to go to counseling and all that, too. And uh, you know, they bring up scenarios, and what happens, you know, if you get a fire or what happens this, they try to challenge them and see where they're at, what they're thinking.

SPEAKER_03 26:54

Did you notice that Roger was more of the strong, even with his challenges, more the back then the stereotype bread when a strong guy he went out, found himself a job as a busboy to earn the money to buy that ring that he was determined to give.

SPEAKER_04 27:15

Oh, yeah, he knew that he had to work. He did not think that he wasn't capable. But he couldn't clean the house to save his life. And he was a slob, and Virginia was excellent at that.

SPEAKER_03 27:26

Sum up regular married people are like that too. Yeah, that's what the counselor said. Because um the head guy at the house, at the uh assistant house where they lived, he didn't want Roger and Virginia to get together. He just didn't want to, and it comes out later why, but he had these problems with that. And the count hit Roger's counselor said, well, if it's because he's a slob and he can't uh cook that well, then half of the men in America are retarded.

unknown 28:00

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 28:02

That's how they are on a regular level. Yeah, that's what it is. And I was like, but look at how for that day they had their role, even as husband and wife. Roger was always gonna be the one to go out and work, and Virginia was gonna be the one to stay home because she was good at it. She had to teach him how to clean up and cook and everything. They were good together. That one line. And Roger said, Yeah, it's hard doing it separately, but it's easier when we do it together. So all of that hard stuff is a lot easier doing it together.

SPEAKER_04 28:53

He made her see things, I guess, more clearly. You know, he was pretty good in his thoughts.

SPEAKER_03 29:00

This is what I'm saying. I'm like, that came from Roger? Yeah. That see? I mean, no, you can't do long division, but he's so very in tune to everything and everybody.

Wedding Joy And A Honeymoon Stand

SPEAKER_04 29:16

Yep. Right, so they go along and they end up getting married. And you know, there's one scene at the wedding. It was funny. The priest is, you know, doing the ceremony, and Roger's like, but tell him this about her. Tell him she's my bunny.

SPEAKER_03 29:34

Okay, Roger says that Virginia is her b his bunny.

SPEAKER_04 29:37

So he cut in like, I don't know, what, three times or something like that. And and then finally the priest is like, I just have to get moving on in this ceremony. But it was so cute that he wanted all this put in with his ceremony with her. It was very, very cute, very endearing.

SPEAKER_03 29:52

Yeah, it was. Yeah. And they had um it was uh like normal people wedding. Yeah. It was a nice looking woman. She had a beautiful dress. Beautiful dress, because her I They never explained why she was being raised by her aunt, I think.

SPEAKER_04 30:11

The lady they called her the nature because she was opposed to this too. Yeah. She didn't want her getting married. So then the parents had a meeting and they had a talk with each other. And then I think at one point Roger's parents are like, okay, I think we had enough of this, you know, because her aunt was being so negative.

SPEAKER_03 30:30

Well, what happened? That that was happening. The aunt was being real negative, and the mom gets up and Roger's mom walks by the window, and Roger goes over and said, Mom, remember you always told me you want me to be somebody one day? He said, I am somebody. I'm a man. And she broke down and hugged him. And that's when everybody gave Roger the blessing. I'm telling you, that guy, Roger Myers, but his challenges was so above. He thought better than most of the men I knew at that age.

SPEAKER_04 31:09

Exactly. Exactly. Yeah, he was very uh level-headed, and yeah, what like I say, whatever his parents did raising him, they just supported him and he developed into like a normal person.

SPEAKER_03 31:22

Yes. So uh the whole movie is about them getting married. Right. So they convince everybody that they should, even his counselor convinces the hair guy that they should get married. Because that hair guy didn't even want them to reproduce, he wanted to take away her reproduction.

SPEAKER_04 31:42

And he didn't want them living there either, because I thought there was some liability on his end.

SPEAKER_03 31:47

Right?

SPEAKER_04 31:48

Yeah. There's some liability. If they live there, something happened, then he would get in trouble for it.

Choosing Reproductive Autonomy

SPEAKER_03 31:54

But the whole, but the laws were changing. Right. So the counselor said, they're gonna live here, and if you try to put them out, I'm gonna have and he started naming all those organizations, organizations that would be on him.

SPEAKER_04 32:08

He was 100%, yeah, on the other side. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 32:12

Yeah. So they finally get married and they had their wedding, their reception. And the mom and she's like not able to let go. She's following them around. Their reception was in the hotel where they were gonna spend their honeymoon night.

SPEAKER_04 32:28

Yes. I love the honeymoon night when they go to the front desk. Wasn't that hilarious? It was hilarious. The parents followed them there. They were unsure if they should leave them alone or not. Right. So they go to the desk and they get their room and they say their goodbyes to their parents. They go in the elevator. The parents are like, oh no, the son's like, hey, we should leave them alone. We should go and let's get out of their hair. And then they come back down the elevator. And the parents are probably like, oh yeah, see, something happened already. Yes. There was already a problem. What's going on? And Roger and Virginia charge to the desk and there was a problem.

SPEAKER_03 33:04

I didn't go on the bell, and the guy comes, and I think the guy did it on purpose because he thought, who's gonna know? Who's gonna catch it, right? He uh he goes, Roger said, We paid for a room with the view, and all we see is a wall. Yes, he demanded it. And Virginia said, We paid a lot of money, and we don't want to look at a wall. Right. And he called him out. And the guy's oh, I'm so sorry, sir. Didn't mean to do that. And he gives them another room. Mm-hmm. Clear that up. Roger, I noticed this specifically. Roger didn't say thank you. He took this key and said, Yeah, like you better gave me a room. You don't want me to come back there. And he they walked quietly up to the hot to the elevator. And mom, dad, everybody, like, I guess we can go.

SPEAKER_04 33:59

Yeah, they're fine by themselves. They know how to handle things. We're good here. And the movie ends. And the movie ends. It was a really good movie. Yes, and to this day they're still married. Very much so. I don't think they had kids or anything like that. Well, Virginia, I was so proud of her.

From Institutions To Civil Rights

SPEAKER_03 34:22

It was so funny. Virginia made the choice because Roger told Virginia, I want a lot of kids, and I'm not changing my mind. They were outside on the beach. Yes. And Virginia said, Well, you can't do it by yourself. They figured that out. I was cracking up. It needs to be a union. But they knew Virginia actually sat and thought about the challenges that they would have if they tried to have a kid.

SPEAKER_04 34:53

Right. They did think that through.

SPEAKER_03 34:55

And she went, because they showed a scene. He she went by herself, or maybe somebody went with her, but she came home by herself and he said, Are you all done at the doctor? So I guess she had her tubes tied.

SPEAKER_04 35:09

She couldn't have babies. But they came to that decision themselves. Yes. Not somebody else talking them into it.

SPEAKER_03 35:15

Not that guy talking about take her and have her reproductive rights taken away from her. Totally wrong. But you notice they didn't say take Roger and give him a vasectomy. It was all about taking away Virginia's reproductive rights. They should have both gone in. Yeah. If anybody should to be fair, but nope, that's not what the man said. But they didn't do it. And Virginia and Roger, I think Virginia was the level-headed one in that discussion. And she said, Well, Roger, this is how it's gonna go.

SPEAKER_04 35:54

That's what they decided on. Yeah. But it was all it was all their decision. This is the way they wanted their life to go. And this whole movie just brought to the front, the forefront of these issues. Yes. So, you know, the story it was a strong advocate for independent living for people like this. Yes. So this couple's experience was used to challenge assumptions that people with intellectual disabilities were capable of marriage or even any adult responsibility.

SPEAKER_03 36:28

They didn't want them to live on their own. They always the first answer was institutionalized. Yes. That's all they want. That's what they wanted to do.

SPEAKER_04 36:38

Right. They didn't know how to handle it, but so much more research came out since then, and now they can.

SPEAKER_03 36:45

And then the financial aid for this type of uh support started becoming available.

Myths, Medicine, And The Spectrum

SPEAKER_04 36:53

Yeah, there was a rehabilitation act of 1973 that prohibited discrimination based on disability in federally funded programs. So they got funded for that.

SPEAKER_03 37:05

That's great. That's when it all started. That's kind of hard to believe that it was in our young life that this all started. Right. I was all of 10 years old, 11 years old. So that means, well, I'm not all that surprised because I remember hearing the story about John F. Kennedy's sister, who was a little bit round by church, and he was running for president, and she kept sneaking outside of her little boarding school because she liked boys and she liked sneaking out at night and going out with the boys. Why not? And some doctor told them they didn't know about, and maybe she did have some other things that they just weren't aware of. And this doctor told them there's this new procedure called a lobotomy. They messed that girl up for life. She lived the rest of her life institutionally. Oh my goodness. Because they gave her a frontal lobotomy, because Joe Kennedy felt his son was running for president. They can't have this girl in the news. Oh, that's bad press. My son can't be associated with his sister sneaking out of the girls' school at night.

SPEAKER_04 38:20

Yeah, and those lobotomies, that a what a crazy way to treat something. This is what they do.

SPEAKER_03 38:26

They either gave them a lobotomy or put them in an institution. And that is a sad that went on obviously until the early 70s.

SPEAKER_04 38:38

Yeah, but in the 70s, disability began to be framed as a civil rights issue now and not just a medical or charitable uh concern. It's a civil rights issue now. So that all came about in the 70s, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 38:51

Well, that's because people like Roger Myers' parents who started standing up and fighting and said, No, I'm not gonna throw my son in some state hospital. Right.

Policy Shifts And Supported Living

SPEAKER_04 39:03

Yeah, I mean, even though their case wasn't a landmark Supreme Court case, I mean it really symbolize the same principle that adults with disabilities can have the same rights as other people with decision making things like that, including marriage. They can't be married.

SPEAKER_03 39:18

And then the discussions got wide open where they started categorizing and saying, you know, just because I'm this way doesn't mean I'm uh a psychotic maniac or anything. Uh so they even the they like you said, the spectrum. They started giving that that term, like how far on the spectrum are you? Right. And then maybe you're this, but this person is this. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 39:47

And they also ended uh sterilization policies too.

SPEAKER_03 39:51

Right.

SPEAKER_04 39:51

You know, get rid of that, get rid of that, you know, that make that their decision and not your decision.

SPEAKER_03 39:57

I'm telling you, that's what they were doing. Yeah, they were hysterectomy and everything else, whatever they were doing, so these women could not have babies.

SPEAKER_04 40:06

Right. And it's not been proven either that people with these disabilities would have a baby with the same disability. Exactly. That might not even happen.

SPEAKER_03 40:17

So that got touched on in the movie. They said it's not a genetic disorder. Right. This man is not passing this down to his kids.

SPEAKER_04 40:28

Right, because remember, Virginia sold Roger that something happened when she was born with that forceps, and he had her touch the back of her head. So she had a birth uh issue. This happened with a birth issue, not genetics. And they never said what happened with Roger, but it was just Virginia had a forceps accident.

SPEAKER_03 40:49

Yes. And back then, they were taking a lot of babies by for with forceps. So God knows how many kids were running around with these.

SPEAKER_04 41:01

Uh you hear about the cord around your neck and they don't have the oxygen they need. Yeah. That could cause some um uh brain disorder or brain uh, you know, they say they say a lot of cerebral palsy from birth accidents. Exactly. So there's many different reasons, it's not all genetics, but that that had to come out too down the line. Yeah. Well, they had to find that out that oh, okay, this isn't just this, that you just were born genetically like this, something else happened.

Rewatching With New Eyes

SPEAKER_03 41:32

Yes. That affected your brain. And that's when the all of it, and then they could discriminate against living, then it got to the job, they had equal rights there, and they reformed guardianship laws, they promoted supported decision making rather than total control.

SPEAKER_04 41:49

I mean, the whole thing just got rearranged. That's just great.

SPEAKER_03 41:54

And I think I I applaud Sean here all these years later for taking that role.

SPEAKER_04 42:01

Yeah, I don't even know how to explain it. I mean, I enjoyed watching it and I learned a lot with the movie.

SPEAKER_03 42:07

Yeah. Back then, I think I was more into, we were so gaga over Sean. I was more into that's Sean Cassidy. Yeah. I wasn't paying attention to the message.

SPEAKER_04 42:19

I was, yeah, I was still glued to that is Sean. But yeah, I was, I don't know. I had mixed feelings. I I was kind of confused by my brain was confused with this teen idol acting this way in this movie.

SPEAKER_03 42:34

I'm not ashamed to say it. I didn't like it because it it was outside of my comfort zone for how I wanted to see Sean.

SPEAKER_04 42:43

And I didn't want Sean to be teased because he was playing this role. Right. Because this person in real life was being teased for sure, and now he's playing this role. Is he gonna be teased?

SPEAKER_03 42:56

And I remember getting older, and like they said, that movie is not readily available everywhere. But I started growing up and I'm like learning with my charitable work I do and everything, learning more about people with different abilities and things. I'm like, I really want to see like normal people again to watch it now from that perspective. Yes, find it.

SPEAKER_04 43:19

Well findings. You can't find it on the YouTube. I I encourage people to go watch it again now.

SPEAKER_03 43:24

Yes, it's on YouTube. I just watched it last.

SPEAKER_04 43:28

You watched it on YouTube, yeah, it's available there. I encourage people to go watch it again and really see what the change was.

Community Resources And An Open Invite

SPEAKER_03 43:35

Yes. If you haven't seen like normal people in decades, like Cindy and I had to go watch it now and and think about how you felt then and how you feel tonight.

SPEAKER_04 43:50

And let us know in the comments too, if you've come across this at all in your lifetime or know somebody who had this issue.

SPEAKER_03 43:57

Maybe maybe one of You have a child who was born with a different ability. And maybe you want to share or let us know in the comments your life, how that affected it, or you know someone. Yeah. And like we said, it's lots of years later. Yeah, it's come a long way. Things have changed a whole lot.

SPEAKER_04 44:20

Yeah, a long way. And we keep learning, even though we come a long way. We keep learning more and more every day. And the disability community, I don't know. I think they they're it's I think it's pretty good right now. I think they are really independent. And they have a lot of support, and you just help us.

SPEAKER_03 44:40

Well we have we have places here. Every state, every city, every village has something. Yeah. And the one that stands out to me is called Lamb's Farm. Oh, yes, we have that. That's the one for people with the different abilities. And they they go and they make cookies, they sell their cookies. They take care of animals here too. And it's like a petting zoo and walk around and buy from their shops and everything. And they all work there. And it supports them because they work there and live there.

SPEAKER_04 45:15

So it's full circle.

SPEAKER_03 45:16

Yes.

Closing Thanks And Ways To Connect

SPEAKER_04 45:17

This is their job, but it helps them and for the disabled. I want to give a quick shout out to Linda Pearl. Way to go. She did a great job on that. They did great research on this too. They they were with the couple, the actual couple, Roger and Virginia.

SPEAKER_03 45:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 45:33

They spent some time with them to study for this role.

SPEAKER_03 45:36

Linda, if you're listening, we'd love to talk to you.

SPEAKER_04 45:39

Yeah, Linda. Please reach out to us. We would love to talk about this role you had. Seanspar Society at gmail.com. Thanks, guys. We had a good show today. Thanks a lot. Thank you from the bottom of our teen dream hearts. Keep on crushing. Always believe in magic.

SPEAKER_02 45:59

And have a peaceful, fantastic week. And don't forget to follow us on Facebook, Instagram, thread, and subscribe to our new YouTube page.

SPEAKER_03 46:09

Make sure to keep in touch with us at our email. CharlotteSquad Society at gmail.com.

SPEAKER_04 46:16

The Sean Squad Society Podcast, including past, present, and future versions, and its contents are owned and controlled by the Sean Squad Society. The podcast is written, produced, and recorded at the Borden Studios, and the views and opinions are solely those of the Sean Squad Society Podcast. We may think we are always right, but we may get things wrong from time to time. So we assume no responsibility for errors of submission of content.