Toni Gallagher: Producer, Writer & Shaun Cassidy Fan At Heart

We talk with writer and longtime TV producer Toni Gallagher, and Toni’s journey from Northwestern journalism dreams to early Hollywood jobs on The Tracy Ullman Show and at Steven Spielberg’s company, and then into the rise of reality television. She breaks down what “unscripted” actually means, how story editors build narrative from hundreds of hours of footage, and what producers can and can’t push on shows like The Real World, Road Rules, and Real Housewives of Beverly Hills. If you’ve ever wondered how reality TV producers shape scenes without writing dialogue, you’ll get a clear, honest look at the process. 

Then we get to the part that had us crying laughing: Toni’s hilarious “Dear Shaun” humor piece, published on Slackjaw on Medium, written like a teen fangirl letter with one tiny update, she’s 60 years old. We also dig into her middle grade books Twist My Charm: The Popularity Spell and the sequel, including the “happy positive voodoo doll” twist, friendship drama, and Ryder Landry, the fictional pop-star crush that proves every era has its teen idol. 

If you love Shaun Cassidy, The Hardy Boys nostalgia, behind-the-scenes TV production, writing advice, or the joy of fan communities, you’ll feel right at home with us. Subscribe, share this with a fellow teen-dream believer, and leave a review, what was your very first pop culture crush?

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Transcript

Why 1977 Still Hits Hard

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Well, I was just thinking about how 1977 was maybe the greatest year of all time because The Hardy Boys, Nancy Drew, I was already a reader and a writer, so I already I had already read tons of Nancy Drew books. You know, I didn't really like the Hardy Boys books as much because I guess maybe I was just a typical girl and I wanted to read about girls and not boys, but I had a few Hardy Boys books. But when that show premiered, I was all over it. Between Hardy Boys and Star Wars, 1977 might be my favorite year of all time.

SPEAKER_05 0:33

Yeah. We are definitely connected because that is the pen to a lot of my stuff, 1977. But I won't say what stuff, so in case you listeners are trying to figure out what I used that for. But it is the best year ever in my life.

SPEAKER_00 0:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 0:52

Yeah. Yeah, it was a big turnaround year for me.

SPEAKER_00 0:55

And I think I liked, you know, I mean, I had boys who were friends, but I don't think I was attracted to any of them. But when Sean hit the airwaves, oh again, it was just perfect timing. I was the perfect age for him to come into my life.

SPEAKER_01 1:28

Welcome to the Sean's Quad Society Podcast with your host, myself, Cindy, Doris, J. Madonna, where we invite you to share in our enthusiasm and reminisce about all things Sean gets.

SPEAKER_05 1:41

From his teen idol days to his recent adventures back on the road again.

SPEAKER_02 1:46

Please join us for the stories and memories that connected us to those happy days that helped create the Sean Squad Society podcast.

SPEAKER_05 1:55

Hey Cindy, how are you?

SPEAKER_01 1:57

Hey Doris, how are you?

SPEAKER_05 1:58

I'm good. Good. Look at you. First of all, we're doing a very special episode today, but I have to point out this was not planned. This was not planned, purple and purple. We just happened to both have on our purple blouses today. That's right, it's a purple day. But you know, I think our listeners will be okay with that.

SPEAKER_01 2:19

Oh, yeah. Yes, purple's a good color.

SPEAKER_05 2:21

Let's talk about our episode. So today we have Tony Gallagher. Yes. Now, for everyone who you know out there who are not real familiar, I'm gonna give a little background. Yeah. It's I'm gonna read her bio because it's pretty good. It says Tony is no stranger to storytelling. She earned her journalism degree from Northwestern University, which is probably why we both wear purple. Right. That's a successful career in reality TV. Tony began as a story editor on the early seasons of MTB's The Real World and was a producer on the beloved Disney Channel show, Bug Juice, which was about real kids at SummerCamp. Yep. She was or currently is, that's what we're gonna find out today, the executive producer on The Real Housewives of Beverly Hills, and she lives in LA. We can now welcome our special guest, Nicole.

SPEAKER_01 3:31

Hello, hello. Hello, hello. I guess we gotta start. Yeah, right on purple.

SPEAKER_00 3:37

That's Northwestern's color.

Early Writing And Teen Mag Dreams

SPEAKER_05 3:39

Shout out. Let's talk about that for a few seconds. Yeah. You went to school in Northwestern.

SPEAKER_00 3:45

What brought you to the Midwest all the way over here? You know what? I started out in the suburbs of Philadelphia as a kid. Okay. So that that's where I discovered Sean, which I know we'll be talking about. And then I went to high school in Ohio and then college outside Chicago for to uh study journalism because I've always uh been a writer. Okay. Ever since you were young, right? Like young, young. Oh, yeah. I think uh I started in second grade probably writing books and stories and plays and all that kind of stuff.

SPEAKER_01 4:18

So you had a knack for it right away. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:21

Because I've written those because I've written those two children's books, and I was just speaking in an elementary school and I show them books that I wrote when I was young and all of that. I'm sure I have some early Sean fan fiction, but I need to I need to find it.

SPEAKER_01 4:36

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 4:36

I think Therese wrote a letter about Sean. I'm nowhere near as good as you. I wouldn't, but I used to want to be a writer, and I used to write uh short stories and poems and all kinds of stuff. So one of the very first things I wrote that I called my first poem was about Sean. My very yeah, I was like 15 years old. Wow. I didn't think about that in high school. Yeah, that was my very first poem. But then I I like to say my inkwell dried up. I couldn't find, I couldn't do it anymore. So I just dabble here and there now. Yeah. It happens. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:21

You stayed in Chicago only for school and then you left and went west? The day after graduating from Northwestern University, my friend and I got in a car and drove to Hollywood. Wow. So you knew already the target. I I think when I was a kid, my dream was to go to journalism school and write for Tiger Beat or Teen Beat or Bop or whatever. By the time I graduated college, by the time I graduated college, that was not my goal anymore, but I kind of knew I wasn't going to be a journalist. I was gonna move to Hollywood and try to write for TV or movies.

SPEAKER_01 5:55

On that Tiger Beat, okay.

SPEAKER_00 5:57

Because that would have been fun. A friend of mine was a reporter for Bop magazine, so I forgot to be able to do it. Oh, I remember Bop.

SPEAKER_01 6:04

Because we were talking about Ann Moses. Was it Ann Moses?

SPEAKER_05 6:07

Anne Moses, she would have been the nuts Ann Moses. She wrote for Tiger Beat, and it was a little bit before. She did the David Cassidy, Donnie Osman, Bobby Sherman type people.

SPEAKER_01 6:19

Yeah, but before Sean. She was gone before Sean showed up. Yeah. Right.

SPEAKER_00 6:24

But I know all those guys, but we were all just a little bit too young for them, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 6:29

That's what Cindy and I say all the time is um we came a little bit too young for David, but right on time for the business. Right on time. And then we caught back up to David because David, of course, continued his career in the 80s when he I I like to call it when he got back on the bus. And MTB brought out the Partridge Family bus and put Danny and David on it. Yeah. And so that's when I jumped on. I'm like, okay, well, let's go follow David a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 7:04

Yeah, that was fun too, because we were adults by then and we could go to concerts and not have to ask our mom. Right, right. You know? We could do our own thing and go see him. So we were mostly on the Partridge Family bus. Yes. But then Sean showed up and I didn't even know he had a brother. So news to me.

SPEAKER_05 7:19

So tell us your story. How did how did Sean jump into your heart?

SPEAKER_00 7:24

Well, I was just thinking about how 1977 was maybe the greatest year of all time. Because The Hardy Boys, Nancy Drew, I was already a reader and a writer. So I already I had already read tons of Nancy Drew books. You know, I didn't really like the Hardy Boys books as much because I guess maybe I was just a typical girl and I wanted to read about girls and not boys, but I had a few Hardy Boys books. But when that show premiered, I was all over it. So between Hardy Boys and uh Star Wars, 1977 might be my favorite year of all time.

SPEAKER_05 7:57

Yeah. We are definitely connected because that is the pen to a lot of my stuff, 1977. But I won't say what stuff, so in case you listeners are trying to figure out what I used that for. But it is the best year ever in my life.

SPEAKER_01 8:17

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it was a big turnaround year for me.

SPEAKER_00 8:20

And I think I liked, you know, I I mean I had boys who were friends, but I don't think I was attracted to any of them. But when Sean hit the airwaves, oh my goodness. Yes. Again, it was just perfect timing. I was the perfect age for him to come into my life.

SPEAKER_01 8:36

Yeah, we were in high school at the time. So we didn't get the dolls and the stuff like that, but we were more in the magazines and the we had t-shirts.

SPEAKER_00 8:45

I was magazines and posters for sure. I'd go down to the 7-Eleven, I think it was every Tuesday when the new magazines came out. And of course, all my walls were decorated.

SPEAKER_01 8:55

We had to be there, right? The day it was released. We had to be there. Oh we knew that day the magazine was coming out. We couldn't get it two days later. No. No. No.

SPEAKER_05 9:04

It had to be that day. He was like, open the doors. I'm here. I have my 75 cents, and I was ready to buy my magazine.

SPEAKER_00 9:13

Yes. And then when he started singing on the show, he was already cute as Joe Hardy, but when then he started singing, then I'm like, okay, all bets are off. This is my guy.

SPEAKER_01 9:23

All bets are off. He was great. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 9:25

Loved it. I mean, January 1977, it's when Hardy Boys premiered. And Sunday nights, my house, I didn't leave it. No way in the world I was going anywhere.

SPEAKER_01 9:41

And tell her what we both did that we didn't know.

SPEAKER_05 9:44

Oh, with the recording on our little cassette, and I still have some. Yes. Little cassette, hold it up to the TV, record. We both recorded it.

SPEAKER_01 9:53

Every episode, and I lived by an airport, and I was so mad that the airplanes were going overhead. And I told my mom to stop it. And she's going, What do you want me to do? Call the airport and tell them to stop flying? I says, Yeah, for an hour, please.

SPEAKER_05 10:05

And I had I had Evo, Evo brothers who were purposely burst into my room because my mother separated us and gave us TVs in our room because we couldn't decide what to watch. So my sister and I shared a room. We were recording Hardy Boys, and they come in, you marina, or make some weird noise. How dare they? Yeah. Oh yeah. I did the same. I did the same.

SPEAKER_01 10:34

They did. Somebody had to be there to mess it up.

SPEAKER_05 10:36

Yeah. So you had your recordings, you had your tiger beats. You were just all over it like the rest of us. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:44

Oh, yeah. And I don't know if I've mentioned it to you guys before, but my aunt already lived in California, and she ran into him, into Sean Cassidy at a hula hands restaurant. And there the reason I know it's a hula hands restaurant is because it's on the back of this autograph that she got for me. Wow. So that is a legit Sean late 70s autograph. That's his autograph. That I recently framed and uh put on my desk. How nice. Cool. And who was he with? Where who was he with at the restaurant? You know what? I actually just saw my aunt a week or two ago. I told her I was doing this. She didn't even remember getting the autograph.

SPEAKER_05 11:22

So I have no idea who he was with. Okay. Hula hairs like any other person would be. You know, so that's like what an Applebee's or a ruthless or something. Exactly. That's how.

SPEAKER_00 11:36

But it would have been in LA somewhere.

SPEAKER_01 11:38

Maybe the valley. Lucky. Just a lucky, lucky uh connection there.

SPEAKER_05 11:43

So you did you decided you were gonna be a writer, but you didn't say you were gonna go out. Did you dream of going out like interviewing Sean and doing something at any point in this whole life of writing?

SPEAKER_00 11:58

Yeah. I think from about ages 12 to 15, the thought was move to Hollywood to uh to interview Sean and other cute boy celebrities. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 12:10

Yeah.

Hollywood First Jobs And Spielberg

SPEAKER_00 12:10

But by the time high school and college were over, I was a little more realistic. I didn't need to write for Tiger Beat anymore at that point. Oh, okay. I had studied serious journalism in college, but I knew serious journalism wasn't for me. So I moved to LA to pursue a career in uh TV or movies.

SPEAKER_01 12:27

Yeah, so what was the first project you got? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:31

The first job I got was called a production assistant, which was doing anything they tell you to do on the Tracy Ullman show. Oh yeah. It was on Fox. Fox was a very new network at the time. Yeah. The producer was James L. Brooks, who is still a huge name in Hollywood. Uh the Simpsons ended up beginning on the Tracy Ullman show. And uh, you know, and I got to get Tracy Ullman her her lunch, and she called me Perky.

SPEAKER_01 12:58

So it was a pretty good one. Tracy Ullman was one of the voices.

SPEAKER_00 13:03

Was she Marge? She did appear on The Simpsons, but I think she was Marge. No, no, that was um Julie Kavner. Oh, yes. Julie Kavner was Rhoda's sister on the show Rhoda. Oh. But Julie Kavner did appear on the Tracy Ullman show, as did Dan Castellanetta, who is still Homer. Yes.

SPEAKER_05 13:22

Oh. I remember Tracy Ullman from that that song she had. It was a cute little song, and now it's in my head, but I can't remember what I was saying. Oh, we did have a cute song in the 80s. Yep.

SPEAKER_01 13:34

One song she did, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 13:35

Yeah, and I tell you, that is so cool. So you started there, and and like you said, you were like their gopher. You did whatever they said to do. Yep.

SPEAKER_00 13:46

That's a lot of what everybody's first job in Hollywood is. I bet. And then somebody told me that Steven Spielberg's company needed an assistant. Oh. So that was my next job was working for Steven Spielberg's company.

SPEAKER_01 14:00

With what movie, or was it a you know what?

SPEAKER_00 14:02

He was out of town pretty much the whole year I was there doing Indiana Jones 3. Um, but I did get to meet him once, and I told him not to make the movie Prince of Tides. Yes. That's my big claim to fame. Don't do it. Right. Barbara Streisand did, and I remember my boss saying, Well, if that wins an Oscar, you're gonna be in trouble. And and later, what did win an Oscar was Silence of the Lambs, which she told him not to make. So if anybody was gonna get in trouble, it was that boss of mine. But I was thrilled because, like I said, I was a Star Wars fan too. So George Lucas and Steven Spielberg were childhood heroes of mine too. And I once saw them walking down the hall together. And I was my knees went weak. I was so excited to see them together.

SPEAKER_05 14:48

I would have just fainted. Yeah. And I don't normally get fangirlish and all that. They were big back then.

SPEAKER_01 14:55

Spielberg comes trolling up the hall. I would have just fainted. Would he have made Close Encounters by then?

SPEAKER_00 15:01

Yeah, Close Encounters. E.T. Yeah. He I mean, he was already huge, and that was the late 80s. Wow.

Enter Reality TV And The Real World

SPEAKER_05 15:09

Yeah. That's fun. That is fun. There's some early fun jobs. Yeah. Well, let's kind of just then segue a little bit into the um the books. Mm-hmm. Because I got I got stuff I want to talk about.

SPEAKER_00 15:26

Well, let me tell you for a second, before we jump into my books, Twist My Charm. Thank you for holding them up. Um, I did spend many, many years after I left James L. Brooks and Tracy Ullman show and then Steven Spielberg. That was when reality TV began. Oh which I thought was actually gonna be just sort of like a couple of years doing a fun job that was weird and new and different, and it became a 30-year career.

SPEAKER_01 15:51

But the first one How did I jump? Survivor was the first reality show, right? Oh no, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_05 16:00

Reality TV started. I remember as a kid, there was a show called Um Real People or Amazing Animal Stories. Those little those were reality TV stories. Oh, really?

SPEAKER_00 16:16

Yeah, yeah. They had little like stores, like there were hosts and then there were little stories and they'd meet real people and that kind of thing. In my mind, I think the first reality show, as far as I'm concerned, that had like that put people in a situation and followed them dramatically would have been the real world on MTV. And that was I think they started in like 91, 92, which was like 10 years before Survivor. So people always think Survivor was first in telling a story of people in a situation. Okay. But I think the real world was first.

SPEAKER_01 16:46

And then I'm glad you said that straight. Yeah. Early 90s. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 16:50

So how did you so you're working uh on the on the at these production companies led you to being on uh the reality TV shows?

SPEAKER_00 17:02

Yeah, I was a fan just as I was working my other, you know, entry-level jobs in Hollywood. I was a fan of that very first season of The Real World that took place in New York City. And, you know, all my life I'd been a fan of soap operas. I'd been a fan later in life, you know, of documentaries. And I thought, this is an awesome combination of soap opera and documentary. So I wrote a letter to the company that made The Real World and said, here's my background. And I think it was many months later, maybe six months later, I got a phone call and I was like, wait, are they calling me in to be on the show as like a character on the show? Or to be behind the scenes. So I dressed cute enough in case they were interested for me to be on the show. But they were they were interested in me to be behind the scenes. And like I said, it was a total shock that I ended up doing that for the next 30 years.

SPEAKER_04 17:51

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 17:53

Wow.

SPEAKER_05 17:54

It's a big career. That's a long yeah, I thought I'd do something when I stayed at a company 22 years, but you did reality. So are you doing it now or have you?

SPEAKER_00 18:05

No, no, I bounced from show to show. So it wasn't like having one job for 30 years. I did all sorts of different TV shows. You know, some would last a few months and some would last a few years, you know. But it was but I did work fairly consistently for 30 years. It was 1993 to 2023, and I felt like that was a good time to hang up the reality TV hat. Definitely. But it was during Real Housewives of Beverly Hills that I wrote the two books. That's why I stopped here.

SPEAKER_05 18:34

But I bet working on those shows, see, we only see the final hour or whatever, but I was just mentioning to Cindy, I would have loved to be there to see the eight or ten hours that we don't see. The parts. Oh, Doris, I wish it was eight or ten hours.

SPEAKER_00 18:52

It was hundreds of hours. And we had a team of people who had to watch every tape that got filmed, type into the computer like what was happening practically minute by minute, so we could then search it later. Like, I need a shot of Pedro looking at the fish tank. And we could search for it and find what VHS tape back then that that was on. And that's how we had to make the show back in those days. It's a lot more streamlined and easy and technically savvy. But uh yeah, people every people watched every minute of every day that got filmed. And in the real world, they were filming practically around the clock.

SPEAKER_01 19:32

Really?

How Reality Stories Get Built

SPEAKER_00 19:33

They didn't tell those kids what to do at all, they just lived their lives.

SPEAKER_05 19:37

And that was gonna be my next question. Was any of it scripted? Uh at least for the real world.

SPEAKER_00 19:45

The real world, definitely not. And and at least certainly in the early days, who knows how things changed over the years. But I was on that show for four seasons, no, three seasons. Road rules, which was sort of real world in a Winnebago traveling for four or five more seasons, never told those people what to do at all. Road Rules they did have challenges to do, so I guess it wasn't scripted, but they had to do those things. But uh no, we just had to wait and see what happened and then pick out the best stuff and decide how to put it together, which is a really great storytelling exercise. You can't just write it out of your brain. You gotta pick from what was actually well from what actually happened to create a story.

SPEAKER_01 20:23

Yeah, and that's what Sean says too. He's a storyteller. Uh, here's some.

SPEAKER_00 20:27

Yeah, but I mean I did keep tabs on him over the years, and I remember being like, wow, that's so cool. Sean Cassidy is a TV producer. He always produced dramas, and I was more of a comedy writer. Otherwise, I might have written him a letter at some point.

SPEAKER_05 20:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:40

He was mm-oh dramas. Yeah. But what a what a great he's had a great career in TV behind the scenes, and I can totally appreciate that.

SPEAKER_01 20:49

And we both found out too that while he started his he did his first drama series, American Gothic, he was on tour with David doing Blood Brothers, and he couldn't come to Chicago where we were at because he had to go back and do American Gothic. Right. Yep. So we didn't get to see Sean with Blood Brothers, we only got to see David. Right.

SPEAKER_00 21:05

I I and I've heard that story about how he would do the show, but then he would write scripts or write the Bible for the show during the day and when he wasn't performing. So again, I mean, I really appreciate his work ethic because that's how I wrote my two books while I was executive producing The Real Housewives of Beverly Hills, and I was in an office. I wasn't running around following the ladies. I was helping, you know, put the put the material together after it was filmed. But I would eat a TV dinner at my desk at 6:30 and then go to a coffee house at 7 p.m. and write my kids' books. Do your second job.

SPEAKER_05 21:39

What is it about coffee houses? Because we I don't know if you know Johnny Ray Miller wrote uh the Partridge Family, what I call the Partridge Family Bible. Ooh, okay. When we're singing, we actually have it. Yeah. You can't see it on our table. He told me he loves to write in coffee houses. I'm like, don't you have a nice Nice, quiet place in your own house you can go and write, but it seems like something about coffee houses and writers.

SPEAKER_01 22:07

It's more inspiring to them, I guess.

SPEAKER_00 22:09

Some r some writers can't handle the noise and the distractions, but for me, being at home is more of a distraction. It's hard for me to concentrate at home. Uh I like and and uh it also it feels like you're going to an office, you're going to something away from home. So it feels like you're a more serious writer when you're not at home for me, but everybody does something different.

SPEAKER_01 22:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:30

Well, I was just curious.

SPEAKER_01 22:32

And I heard you were also interested in comedy.

SPEAKER_00 22:35

Oh, yeah. Yeah. I I do uh dabble occasionally in stand-up comedy. I did a little in college. I did a little when I first moved to LA. I never seriously pursued it. I didn't want to be traveling and that kind of thing. But um as the reason we met is because I wrote this comedic essay about Sean. What you want to read? In uh in January of uh this year, 2022.

SPEAKER_01 22:59

Yeah, we we actually printed it out. We wanted to read it um because it was so hilarious.

SPEAKER_05 23:04

We thought we would read it and then we can like interject our favorite parts. You want to do it now, Cindy?

SPEAKER_01 23:11

Yeah, oh my gosh, yes. This is hilarious. So, yes, go ahead and read it. You can't do it.

SPEAKER_00 23:15

I was afraid I knew how big I knew you guys were huge fans, so I thought, should I send it to them? Because it is uh, you know, it's a little snarky. Oh, we loved it.

SPEAKER_05 23:23

We got it. Oh, we got it. We got it. I was right there.

SPEAKER_01 23:26

We got it. You read the first half, I'll read the second half. All right.

SPEAKER_05 23:30

Dear Sean, with about 13 exclamation points. Dear Sean, I'm writing this to tell you that you are the dreamiest, foxiest, and cutest actor I have ever seen. The first time you sang on the Hardy Boys Nancy Drew mystery show, I couldn't believe you were so great. The Do-Ran Ryan is my favorite song and will be my favorite song forever. I promise. I promise. I hope, hope, hope, hope. We meet in person someday. So here are some fun facts about me. My name is Tony. I like movies and reading and learning new things. I have brown hair and brown eyes, and I'm 60 years old.

SPEAKER_01 24:22

60 years old.

SPEAKER_05 24:23

So this thing writes. It writes like a 15-year-old girl in her bear role.

SPEAKER_00 24:29

Yeah. That's where people definitely crack up or write L-O-L when they read it online. That's the first line where people really crack up.

SPEAKER_05 24:38

And then you're 60 years old. And I'm 60 years old. Wait, what? What? Oh my god. And then Arthur's note, I wrote this letter a week ago. So, yeah. Um I guess you're just getting caught up. Anyway, I also like going to new places, and I can't wait to see you in Riverside, California. I will be there at the Fox Theater with three of my besties. They are named Katie, Robin, and Shabon. And they are all between 50 and 60 years old. Now, we could have left that out. We will not be bringing significant others because they are boys. And we don't want anyone talk taking our attention away from you, not those icky boys. My BFFs and I will be sharing two rooms at the Hampton Inn. But if you want to come over and hang with us after the show, hang with me, not us. Me after the show, we'll make it work. Three's a crowd. Five's a crowd. You'll probably stay at the Mission Inn, which is fancier, and I could definitely visit there unless you end up liking Katie, Robin, or Saban more than me.

SPEAKER_01 26:06

Not gonna happen.

SPEAKER_05 26:07

I hope. Hope, hope, hope not, because I have been your biggest fan for the longest time, and I'm pretty sure that you had way more posters than I had. Way more posters of you on my wall than they ever did. Oh, yeah. You gotta beat them with the posters. So that part had me on the floor. I said, who writes Sean Cassidy a letter and then says, hey, come on up to my room.

SPEAKER_00 26:42

Well, we always wish a desperate 60-year-old lady does.

SPEAKER_05 26:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:46

I was left her husband behind in LA to go to Riverside.

SPEAKER_05 26:50

Um I'm right reading this and I'm like, oh, I'm just just gonna be one of those funny letters to Sean. But you could come over and see me in my hotel room.

SPEAKER_04 26:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 27:00

You can just Borise is like, I need to talk to this girl.

SPEAKER_01 27:03

I was like, okay, I'm going to have to talk to her. Yep. So the second part of the story is I hope it's okay that I invited myself to your hotel. I mean, I know that you've got a wife, but it's your third marriage, so it can't be too serious, right? How serious can that be? I've only been married once and still am, but if Tim didn't want me getting together with you and Riverside, he should have shown a little bit more interested in watching the Hardy Boys show and listening to your albums on YouTube, and he definitely shouldn't have made me take my posters down when he moved in with me 10 years ago.

SPEAKER_05 27:40

That's still freaking hilarious. Because what you're saying is, I had at 40 years old, 50 years old, my posters are just still on the wall. If my husband's now I'm exaggerating a little bit, of course. Of course, this is where it gets to the let's take some creative liberties. Exactly. But I loved it because what you're saying for the story is if my husband really had a problem with you, with me asking you to come to my room, he might have wanted to mention it back when he saw those posters on the wall. I was laughing so hard right there.

SPEAKER_01 28:17

Oh, yes. And then another author's note, like most girls of the 70s, I practice smooching Sean's kissable lips by leaning into the unfolded poster found inside his debut album. However, I feel like this would be something untoward to include in this letter. I don't want him to think I'm weird or anything.

SPEAKER_05 28:37

I won't think that I was kissing the morning lips from his own.

SPEAKER_00 28:41

Wait, am I the only one who's done that? That's not my heart.

SPEAKER_01 28:45

No. Well, I didn't want to kiss him because I didn't want to ruin the poster. I thought maybe my uh lipstick or whatever would ruin my kiss. So maybe I would just blow him a kiss. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 28:55

I actually would buy every album twice. So after something got messed up. The album, the picture, anything, I have my backup. So I always kept one for the case.

SPEAKER_01 29:06

Oh my gosh. Impressive. Backup, back up. All right, then to continue on, okay, I'm about to send this, but now I wonder if you'll ever actually see it. Do you really, truly personally read your letters? I know you're busy with singing and traveling and tending to your numerous grown children. Well, maybe you can hire Parker Stevenson or Pamela Sue Martin to help with your correspondence. No, not killing me.

SPEAKER_05 29:34

I told you I always get I got a little snarky. I mean, let's just get them up and move and they got need to do something.

SPEAKER_01 29:43

Yeah. But you know, a quick Google search has confirmed that your Hardy Boys Nancy Drew co-stars are still alive. But I haven't seen them work a lot lately, so they could probably use the dough.

SPEAKER_05 29:54

That's so freaking hilarious.

SPEAKER_01 29:56

Yeah. That's hilarious. Yep, yep. And you know what would be absolute coolest if you brought them on stage with you, especially in Riverside, California. That would be fun, yep. And okay, I want to write more, but there's someone knocking at the door. My husband is talking to some people. It sounds like there's some concern about my stability. I don't know why. I took down the posters, except for the ones inside of my hall closet. And I only listened to Jaduren run with my headphones on. Oh well, I better run, Sean. I think I just heard some words, uh, psyche valve. But I'll see you soon. Your biggest fan now and forever. Ever, ever.

SPEAKER_05 30:38

Tony A. Gallagher the first.

SPEAKER_01 30:40

Tony the first, but you can call me Tony. But you can call me Tony.

SPEAKER_05 30:44

Hilarious. There's a little whisper about Psyche Val outside. Psyche Val.

SPEAKER_00 30:50

I better call me. So we're not the only crazy ones.

SPEAKER_01 30:55

So I don't feel bad anymore because I'm not the only crazy. There's all there's more crazies out there. Here's the thing I love it.

SPEAKER_05 31:08

Right. You just put it in writing and I know. You just sealed it. If I were to write some of the stuff I was thinking, they would have had some people come over to pick me up.

SPEAKER_01 31:19

Well, my husband already thinks I'm crazy because I still have Sean's stuff. I have all my original posters, and I I ordered a pillow with him on it, and he's like, You're not putting that on the bed. That's so funny.

SPEAKER_00 31:30

I think I had so much of that stuff, and I I'm I've been pretty good about saving things over the years, but I probably only have maybe a poster or two or maybe some articles tucked away in a box somewhere. All I have is that autograph framed. Oh, yes. That's all Christ's possession.

Where The Letter Was Published

SPEAKER_05 31:45

That is golden. Tell us a little bit about the website that actually published this letter to song. Oh yeah, what is it? And where people combined it.

SPEAKER_00 31:56

In in the in late 2025, I took a humor writing class online because I've always written humorous stuff, but I didn't really know like what were the ways to get it out there. So I learned about these different online humor magazines, some of which are pretty, you know, well respected. Uh so this one was called Slackjaw, and it's on a platform called Medium. So if you go to medium.com slash Slackjaw, um, you can find that article that I wrote. Um, or I'm sure you could just Google it and it would come up, you know, Slackjaw, Sean Cassidy or something like that. It will pop up. And I'm working on, you know, trying to get more humorous essays out there. They're shorter. Uh they're not, I wouldn't say they're easier, but they're they're a lot quicker than writing a whole book. Yeah, go. And as you can tell, they're fun to do. The reaction I've gotten has been so you guys because of it. Other people have been commenting that I don't even know. Uh, boys, you know, boys, men and women have been commenting on it. Yeah. Oh no, I had more posters than you, I bet, or boys who are like, oh, that's where all the girls were when I was in eighth grade. Or I wanted Sean Cassidy's hair when I was that age. So it's been a really, really fun thing to have out there. And I do want to put more humor into the word.

SPEAKER_01 33:09

Yeah, I think you tag Sean in it too, didn't you?

SPEAKER_00 33:11

I think so.

SPEAKER_01 33:12

I have not gotten any word that he has seen it, but we'll see. We'll see. He has seen articles before in the past. Right.

SPEAKER_00 33:20

I think I did post it one time on one of his Facebook pages, but then again, you don't know if he's answering or looking at the Facebook page, or if Pamela Sue Martin and Parker Stevenson are the ones. Well, exactly. They could do something. You know what? I do want to give a shout-out to them though, because I saw somewhere, I don't remember where, where they're performing, but they're gonna perform together in a play called Love Letters earlier this month.

SPEAKER_05 33:44

You saw it on our Facebook page. We promoted it, and that happened already, like the same.

SPEAKER_00 33:50

It wasn't somewhere I could go, but I totally would have been there. I loved Nancy Drew, and of course I love Frank Hardy too, just not as much as Joe Hardy. I would have been there. Yeah, we did interview Parker before. I was joking, but he really does have a lot going on, and he seems like a really intelligent guy, and his photography is actually and his photography, he loves his photography, yes. You know, with some acting in there, but not not relying totally on acting, which is so cool. And they're still connected.

SPEAKER_01 34:21

He considers him a brother.

SPEAKER_05 34:23

Yeah. Parker, Parker is uh really quite shy, I think, or a little more reserved. But I tell you, I'm the one like you, I'm the outgoing one, and I try to quick with everybody. I try my best to come up with that quick line to make the m the moment a little less like tense. And at the ten minutes with the nine of you, Parker was like a chatty Kathy. He loosened up, he was telling us everything. Yep. So I really enjoy talking to him.

SPEAKER_00 34:56

If people haven't heard that, I would definitely recommend going and listening to it. Oh, yeah, we had we had fun with him.

SPEAKER_05 35:01

We had fun. But um, everybody need to go and find this letter to someone. If you haven't if you haven't read it yet, you can read it.

SPEAKER_01 35:09

I read it a few times.

SPEAKER_00 35:11

I think you can read it for free. It is one of those platforms where if you want to subscribe and read all the publications, all the humor. They have millions of publications on this medium website. So I think it's$5 a month or$50 a year. I'll I joined once they accepted my article. So I had zero followers on this platform. The first guy who who wrote me about the article said, You are the only person I've ever seen on Medium with zero followers, so I'll be your first. Well, see, I mean if you can follow me or whatever, feel free. That would be great.

SPEAKER_05 35:43

But yeah, I I apologize. I didn't realize that was how it worked. I I used the link you sent us, went straight to your letter and cracked up.

SPEAKER_01 35:54

We should try to write an honest letter like you, like Tony's writing it from her perspective. We should try to write a funny one about Sean, too, from our perspective. Like what we were thinking back then. Like if you could really write him what you really were thinking, what would you put in there? I don't know. You know, we're gonna get married, you know, these kind of things. Yeah. I'm still waiting for you at the altar.

SPEAKER_00 36:16

I do remember later in life when I saw that that he was a television producer, I thought, he should have picked me. We would have been like a Hollywood power couple, you know.

SPEAKER_01 36:24

Yes, exactly. And you're both writers, so perfect combination. Here I am, Delphine.

SPEAKER_00 36:31

Well, if he if he ever wants to um adapt uh, you know, a children's book into um a series or a movie, uh he's got seven children. They are grown, but he wants to make, you know, he's I've got two books here that are uh totally available for film and TV. Maybe, maybe uh he he and I could work closely uh on it if you know what I mean. Oh, shoot! Oh, right, my husband's not here.

Writing Twist My Charm After Work

SPEAKER_05 36:56

Yeah, you're good. You're good. I'm good for the moment. Wink wink. Tony, you wrote these books, and uh uh I had to buy them the minute you told me you wrote them, and then I had to get Cindy to buy them. So here we are. I think you've got two of the same one up there.

SPEAKER_00 37:15

There is a sequel.

SPEAKER_05 37:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:17

I do gotta bring it up.

SPEAKER_05 37:18

I think I had the soft cover. This is the hardcover. Yeah, that's yes. Those are the two. So these books are written at as 11-year-old girls, seven, twelve-year-old girls.

SPEAKER_00 37:30

Yeah, obviously, that is a voice that I feel very familiar with for some reason.

SPEAKER_05 37:34

Yes. So here I am reading it, going, okay, I guess I'm still 12, because I'm loving every minute of it, and I'm just dying. Yes. The first book is called Twist My Charm, The Popularity Spell. And it's about this girl, Cleo, and her best friend, Samantha, and how they want A, Cleo just wants to stop being teased, and B, they want to be sisters.

SPEAKER_01 38:03

But she's the new kid in town, though. Cleo's the new kid in town. She's the very, very good.

SPEAKER_00 38:11

Moved from Ohio to Los Angeles just like somebody else, you know.

SPEAKER_05 38:14

See? Well, it made sense when you said that. I'm like, that's how it happens. Stories come from a from a real place.

SPEAKER_01 38:22

From a real place, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 38:23

And she goes to this snooty Beverly Hills school where they call all the teachers and administrators by their first name. I'm like, what the crap is that about?

SPEAKER_00 38:34

That seemed very hippy-dippy Los Angeles, right?

SPEAKER_05 38:36

Right? Yeah. I'm like, oh, your teacher Kevin. Okay. I'm on board with that.

SPEAKER_00 38:42

I well, I just read a I just read a part of it to some elementary school kids last week, and I got to the part where she goes to gym class, but they call it recreational wellness at her school.

SPEAKER_05 38:53

Or my favorite was focus exclamation point.

SPEAKER_00 38:57

Exclamation point, because she's a very unfocused kid.

SPEAKER_05 39:03

Very creative and curious. Very. So you got Cleo Sam, and then you got the snooty girl, Maddie Patty, as and this guy, poor Scaby Larry. Nobody wanted to be friends with Scaby Lary. And then Madison, Madison Paddington, I think her name is. She had her posse. So the whole story is because Cleo is tired of being called a clown. You know, what kind of name is Cleo? That's a clown's name. If you're from Ohio and you look like a pig, that's nothing but pigs. She's just tired of the whole thing.

SPEAKER_01 39:45

What does it think Cleo short for Cleopatra? I never thought about it, but I don't think I would have named her Cleopatra. Because, you know, Cleopatra had magic and charms, so I'm thinking it matches. There you go.

SPEAKER_00 39:56

Never thought about that.

SPEAKER_05 39:58

So her uncle, her eccentric crazy uncle, her father's dad, sends her a voodoo doll for her birthday months later, but she gets it. Yeah. And it's not like any voodoo doll that I ever heard of. It actually does good things. Right. Reversal there. So what how why why did you come up with that as the concept of your whole thing?

Voodoo Doll Becomes A Positive Charm

SPEAKER_00 40:26

Well, I gotta be super honest. When I originally wrote the book, it was just a regular voodoo doll that was intended to do bad things to people. And which made sense, I mean, it was all in a very light comical way. She wasn't going to seriously harm anybody with this voodoo doll. But uh my agent, uh I was it was even before we she before we sent it to publishers. She goes, you know, now that I think about it, I don't think publishers would want a book about a girl with a bad voodoo doll wanting to do harm to people, even though my agent took on the book already. And I said, But that's the whole premise. And I guess somewhere late in the book, I make a comment about a happy, positive voodoo doll. So together, my agent and I said, that's the solution. She gets a happy positive voodoo doll that's meant to do good things for people. But the twist is when you do good things for yourself, sometimes bad things happen to other people. So the the the charms that they do go wrong in a comical way. Nothing too heavy or serious.

SPEAKER_05 41:26

And that's exactly what happened. The first hex was um something. I think Sam wanted something good to happen, and she got her good pizza.

SPEAKER_00 41:37

They got surprise pizza at school on it wasn't pizza day, so they think it worked. It could have been a coincidence, but they think it worked.

SPEAKER_05 41:44

Right, yeah, right. Whoa. Then the second, now, here's my thing about Samantha. I early on, I'm starting to think Sam is Cleo's best friend. And she does stick up for Cleo to Maddie Patty, who's kind of who is the bully. But I'm thinking Sam has arterial motives, or she's a little self-centered, she's a little pushy. But Cleo makes excuses for like, well, she's gonna be my sister one day, so maybe that's how sisters are. Right.

SPEAKER_00 42:14

Isn't that how kids are though, right? They they go along with things until they realize that it's wrong. Their relationship, their friendship has an arc. And in the second book, it it comes around too. I I love hearing you talk about it so enthusiastically. Middle grade books are written for eight to twelve year olds, but I always say they are fun for all ages. All my friends who read this when I was working on it enjoyed it. It's a it's a fun, fun.

SPEAKER_01 42:40

It was one of the more favorite ages, I think. My favorite ages was that period like that.

SPEAKER_05 42:45

I must just still be 12, I'm telling you, because I was reading it and I'm reading it in Cleo's voice, like, well, I want to be that, whatever that means. But I hope one day that I could be that, and I'm dying inside, and I'm like, oh Maddie Patty, I know what your problem is. Your daddy don't hug you enough. Right to the park, and there's Cleo kind of accidentally seeing her dad being mean to her. I went, I knew it. She was not getting any attention at home. This little brat. And, you know, like you said, good things happen to someone, but something bad might happen to someone else in the process.

SPEAKER_00 43:32

Yeah. But it all, you know, it you know, spoiler alert, it all turns out okay in the end.

SPEAKER_01 43:37

Yes, yes. But my favorite part was about Ryder Landry.

SPEAKER_05 43:43

So now I gave a little bit about book one. Book two had to come along because the whole idea of book one was to break up Cleo's dad from Tony and get Terry. I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_03 43:58

Terry.

SPEAKER_05 43:59

Terry.

SPEAKER_00 44:00

But clearly intentionally named sort of for me.

SPEAKER_05 44:04

And get her with uh Sam's mom, Paige. The beautiful, well-kept, beautiful college. She's a college college book, Pai. So they do their hex, they call them hexes, and now we gotta go on to book two because, well, something goes awry.

SPEAKER_01 44:24

Uh-oh. I wonder what happens in that one. Well, you have you said you have a favorite part of book two. Well, I just like the writer Landry part because he she loved him and had posters on her wall and Right. Sounds familiar, huh? All that fan stuff. Yeah, that must have come from a certain place, too. Yeah.

Book Two And The Ryder Landry Crush

SPEAKER_00 44:43

Well, let me let me tell you, the the first book, you know, my agent loved it and took it around to publishers. And and at the very end of the book, she gets a love potion. And it's I mean, the book is satisfying on its own. It didn't have to have a sequel, but luckily my agent sold a sequel to Random House as well. Uh but this was a sequel that I hadn't written yet, and I hadn't even thought about what the plot would be, aside from Cleo gets a love potion. So I had to create that whole story fresh without any ideas because Random House was expecting a second book. So I thought, well, what else do I remember from the time I was Cleo's age, 11, 12 years old? Sean Cassidy. Ta-da! I thought all girls that age, or most girls that age, get a crush, right? Whether it's you know, I mean, I think, you know, more, you know, 10 years ago it was Justin Bieber and it's always somebody. Every era, there's new boy crushes. So I created Ryder Landry to be Cleo and uh Cleo and her friend's crush.

SPEAKER_01 45:44

Where'd you get that name from? How'd you come up with that?

SPEAKER_00 45:46

You know, Ryder just seemed like a very modern, but you know, LA fancy name in L. And I don't, you know, I'm not really sure, but I also like that Landry they call the uh the fans are called Lander, like you've landed if you're a Ryder Landry fan. Oh, yeah. Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_05 46:04

Well, I I gotta be honest, I didn't get through all of um Love Potion number 11. But Well, you are a busy woman, Doris, so I understand. I got through enough of it to figure out just what exactly is going on and how writer Landry fits into the story. You know, with the with Maddie and Cleo, you know, Cleo and Sam kind of stop being friends because, as we know, something good happened to Cleo. And they they move on, and then the second book, Cleo is just determined to make everything good. Right. It's her love potion, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 46:54

But I think she realizes that friendships are more important than uh magic stuff or creative stuff or whatever.

SPEAKER_05 47:00

I think Cleo realized that a little bit sooner than uh Samantha did. I I'm thinking Cleo was more in tune with uh the heartbelt because she just wanted to stop anyway. Yeah, and Sam wanted this thing to be the next thing that goes on forever. No, we gotta think of the next one. What's the next one?

SPEAKER_01 47:21

Yep, yep, but they get together.

SPEAKER_05 47:23

They get to a concert. They they're at a a fair or like a a fair or some sort of amusement park thing. Amusement park, yeah. Yeah, that um writer is playing there that night and they all get to that concert. That's what gets them all together. And they do a little mosh pit in the front.

SPEAKER_01 47:46

They do. They all can you imagine a mosh pit with Sean? 11-year-olds. What do you guys can't? I went to the ones in Chicago and it was crazy loud. I could just imagine a mosh pit going on.

SPEAKER_05 47:57

A mosh pit of 11-year-old girls. 11-year-old girls. Crazy. Maddie and her her posse and everybody singing and dancing and everything. Yep. And I think Cleo didn't believe that Maddie really was a fan until finally that big moment where Maddie invites her back to the house, and everybody is going back together. And um, oh, writer, you know, we could thank him for everybody. It probably brings people together, yeah. Yeah. And it brings the people together today. And that's true.

SPEAKER_01 48:34

You know, back in our day, we didn't have this connection with the fans. Now we know more fans than we ever did. And back in the 70s.

SPEAKER_00 48:40

You only knew your your circle in your neighborhood, right? In the neighborhood, right.

SPEAKER_01 48:44

That was it. And I didn't know people further than that. That's all I knew.

SPEAKER_05 48:48

But now, a second time around, you know, when he's doing this tour, that's how we connected, and you know, so social media connected us all, and we decided let's try to bring it and make a community, and that's how the podcast got started. I love it. Sean like writer was bringing up brings people together.

SPEAKER_00 49:08

Yeah. Brings people who are young at heart together.

SPEAKER_01 49:12

Yes. And he loves that too. Yes. He loves that connection. He calls it what the shared community. Yes. Shared connection, shared community. He loves that we're all sharing in it. Yeah. And I love that he loves it.

SPEAKER_05 49:25

So one day he might say, yeah, and join us one day, or just keep him afar and keep just spread his good word and name.

SPEAKER_01 49:35

That's right. That's right.

SPEAKER_00 49:36

In the meantime, we'll tell him about my article if you have a chance to meet him, and I'll be telling. I'm sure he knows about your podcast already, but Yes.

SPEAKER_01 49:44

Yes. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 49:44

You know, I do only live about two hours away from Santa Barbara, which I believe is where he is. And he does have that wine thing. I don't know. I might have to join that wine club.

Shaun’s Wine Club And Fan Community

SPEAKER_05 49:57

So, you know, Sean, we're giving you a shameless plug here. My first crush wines are actually very good. I am a wine club member. And being a member, you get invited to these events. You get to go on Zoom calls, one's coming up soon, and you get to go to events. So Dame and I went to Santa Barbara. Dame has been to three or four events, but Dame and I went to Santa Barbara two Christmases ago for his My First Crush Christmas party. It is just like 40 or 50 of his closest friends being at his house. It was at the winery. He treats you like you're a guest at his house. The whole thing is just put on so well done, such a beautiful event that very intimate event. Uh wine club, if you can.

SPEAKER_01 50:59

And there was a Christmas party too.

SPEAKER_05 51:01

That's the one I'm talking about. We went to the Christmas party. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 51:04

Then there was a Valentine's party.

SPEAKER_05 51:06

Yeah, Dane went to the Valentine's, and she went to some um wine walk thing or outdoors thing. It's throughout the year.

SPEAKER_00 51:15

It's throughout the year. Like I said, I only live two hours away. I was like, oh, am I gonna come across too nutty if I join that and show up? No! No, you'll be with the other nuts.

SPEAKER_05 51:25

And I wish, I wish we would have connected back then because definitely we would have hit it all.

SPEAKER_00 51:32

Well, maybe we will be at the same one one of these days.

SPEAKER_01 51:34

It's still ongoing, so yes, passability. Keeps having them. Passability.

SPEAKER_05 51:40

I may join this afternoon. I was um, I was a little hesitant about going back because going into Santa Barbara is not as easy as like flying into LA. You could get a non-stop flight. Right. This thing, I'm like, oh my God. The coming home was what was sorry, cause it's such a small airport that two flights leave and mine got canceled, so I had to wait for this whole day for another plane to come and I could go home. Yeah, it became such a thing. I said, I'm not flying back again. You're not doing that again.

SPEAKER_01 52:19

Because I haven't gone yet, but yeah, Dame's still coaxing me to go. So why am I show up at one?

SPEAKER_00 52:23

And if you're coming from Chicago, you probably don't want to go to a winter one because you never know what's going to be happening with Chicago.

SPEAKER_05 52:29

No. Right. Right. Exactly. We got lucky that the one I went to, there was Chicago was having a winter drought. There was no snow, weather was kind of warm. So, and that was what I kept saying. How are they kept saying the flights were delayed? I'm like, across the country, it's above average temperatures and no precipitation. What exactly is delaying the flight? Chicago wasn't giving you the problem. Santa Barbara was giving you the problem.

SPEAKER_00 52:57

And Santa Barbara has perfect weather.

SPEAKER_05 53:00

Yeah, right. I figured out um some flight attendant or some crew didn't show up. It was a crew thing. Right.

SPEAKER_01 53:09

So I'm like no crew, no plane. No crew, no plane.

SPEAKER_00 53:12

So there is a Santa Barbara is a beautiful area. I'm sure Sean is living very nicely there.

SPEAKER_01 53:18

Yes, I'm sure.

SPEAKER_05 53:19

I would love to go visit. We got um lucky enough to get a tour because um when when I was working, I was the uh head of uh charitable foundation, which donated money to the church where Sean and Tracy go for their annual Christmas pantry, buy gifts and all that, and food and all that. So I reached out to the lady at the church and told her I was actually coming, and she gave Dame and I a full day tour of the whole area and so wonderful four, four or five hours.

SPEAKER_01 53:59

Santa Barbara area, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 54:01

It was beautiful. Yeah, it's it's beautiful, beautiful wine country.

SPEAKER_05 54:05

Not to mention the beach. Oh, yeah. We went to the beach. It was Dame had to see the ocean, and we got to the ocean.

SPEAKER_01 54:12

So it was really fun. But yeah, these events are uh every year, I think they're doing that.

SPEAKER_05 54:18

Yeah, um, being a wine club member, I just got an email about upcoming events. And there's no dates and anything, it just said these events will be coming, so watch your email. And, you know, never mind the events. That wine is really good. That's nice to know.

SPEAKER_01 54:38

What a great name, right?

SPEAKER_05 54:40

I mean adorable. Adorable. I drank adorable. Yep. I would say I drank a glass last night, but bottles are glass.

SPEAKER_00 54:51

Bottles are glass, yeah. That's what I'm sticking to. My mom would say I'm only having one glass, but she had this huge glass. Huge entire bottle of wine could fit in.

SPEAKER_05 55:02

Yeah, well, we're not lying. I asked Steve Clifton who was the winemaker. They had a Zoom call with him, uh, like this meet and greet with him on the Zoom, and it was a bunch of us wine members. And I said, Steve, what is the best way to preserve wine once you open a bottle? He said, finish the wine and the bottle. Drink it up. I got right from the top. So I can't leave any wine in the bottle. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 55:33

That's right.

SPEAKER_05 55:34

Well, you're following protocol. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 55:36

No, nothing wrong with that.

Real Housewives Producer Secrets

SPEAKER_00 55:38

Well, I'm kind of feeling like we might cross paths again one day. Yes, definitely. There are events down the line.

SPEAKER_05 55:45

Yep. That's right coming up. Yes. I had a little outline of what we were going to talk about, and I just uh I can't find it.

SPEAKER_01 55:54

Well, I think that went out the window a long time ago.

SPEAKER_05 55:57

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00 55:57

I think we covered most. Hey, you did want to ask me about Housewives, which I did I I did mention. I'm not doing it now, but I did I did produce, or I was one of the many producers on seasons one through seven of Real Housewives of Beverly Hills. Uh that show is still going. They're on seasons 17 or 18, but I was on that show from seasons one through seven, and then I finished reality TV in 2023.

SPEAKER_01 56:21

So then, yeah, that was my question. Like, do you do they do their thing? You make a story around it, or you make a story and they kind of follow it.

SPEAKER_00 56:28

They, you know what? I'm I'm actually reading Lisa Rinna, who was one of the housewives for a while. Soap opera actress and all. I'm reading her book right now. I always I always liked her, and I I knew her a little bit. Um, and she admits like they follow what we do. And she she says, we the producers didn't we would say, you know, you have to go on a vacation together. Because let's think about it. If you're if you're a housewife, if you're friends with somebody, you don't like them anymore, you're not gonna go on vacation together. Right. Right? You're not gonna go to lunch with them. But then we wouldn't have a show. So we do have to make them do those kinds of things. But once they're doing it, we don't say, have a fight, you know. Oh, okay. It's just like we might say, Hey, you know, you guys have had this beef, you know, can you go to lunch and talk about it? But there's nobody saying you have to say this, you have to do this. The women themselves, I think, realize when things aren't exciting enough and they decide Oh, you guys go, you know, I'm pissed about this, and in real life, I would hide it. But I'm on TV. I'm gonna say it.

SPEAKER_01 57:26

You know, so you give them a scenario, you put them on a beach or like a vacation, they go somewhere, and then things come out.

SPEAKER_00 57:33

And we would also build scenes uh around what they were really doing, like, you know, somebody got a charity event. Okay, we're gonna come and film that charity event. And of course, you have to invite all the other housewives to that charity event. Yeah. So we would follow, or or you know, somebody's I'm going to go on this vacation or whatever. Well, can everybody come along? Yeah. You know? So we did follow, you know, every year at the beginning of the seasons, we'd say, What do you have coming up? and sort of build filming around it. It's not like the real world where we're there with them 24 hours a day, because these are grown women with children and families. We can't be there 24 hours a day. But we would make a schedule for filming around what we knew was gonna happen and then hope for the best. Hope the juicy stuff happened.

SPEAKER_05 58:16

Well, I the way you make a sign is they were savvy enough to know this is TV, let's juice it up a little so they would bring out their most juicy stuff when they felt like it was getting a little dull. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 58:30

The best reality TV people are the ones who do not filter themselves. They shouldn't make it up. If you're not mad at somebody, you shouldn't pretend to be mad at somebody. Right. If you're feeling it, you don't hide it. If there's a housewife who hides her feelings, she's usually gone within a season or two. Oh, because she's boring.

SPEAKER_01 58:47

Yes. Nothing to say. Right. Right. Right. I'm bringing a beast to the party.

SPEAKER_05 58:52

Yeah. That's why I used to it was painful to watch when I used to watch Danny Bonaduc's reality show. And he's just a character. Right. He was just being himself. People just don't know what you see is Danny, and he can't make that crap up. And it was it was a good thing.

SPEAKER_00 59:13

When people ask me, is reality TV real? I say, Do you think when they started filming Keeping Up with the Kardashians, they knew that Bruce Jenner was going to become a woman? Yeah, no. I don't think so.

SPEAKER_01 59:23

He was hiding that.

SPEAKER_00 59:24

They did not they did not script that.

SPEAKER_01 59:26

Right. Right. That happened.

SPEAKER_00 59:28

It was in their lives while they were filming.

SPEAKER_01 59:30

Right, exactly. Interesting how they do that. Very interesting. Wouldn't that be funny if there was a a real uh not real housewife, but real Sean fans reality show?

SPEAKER_05 59:39

Oh well, we'll come up with that. You gotta you gotta get the ones that are more bouncy and like us.

SPEAKER_00 59:47

Yeah, we're too we're too nice though. Like we're we're we're a fun podcast. But there's been some stuff that'll sometimes be tearing each other's hair out.

SPEAKER_05 59:56

They say go a little Jerry Springer. I might I might be inclined to go a little Jerry Springer.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:02

Well, you know, if my friends Robin or Katie or Siobhan, if Sean had liked them more than he liked me, there would have been some trouble. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Exactly. But and some people have asked, I I did not meet him in Riverside, but I did go to the show back in January. Okay. Well, you didn't do the QA meet and greet? I didn't. I'm too cheap.

unknown 1:00:23

Oh.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:25

Oh, I'm not sure. Maybe I was hoping he would find me through my article instead of uh paying the extra money. But maybe I'll join the wine club and meet him that way. Yes. There you go.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:34

Join the wine club and keep saying, take it from me. Keep saying and doing you. Yep. And he will know exactly who you are. Exactly. No time at all.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:48

Tony, this has been so much fun today.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:50

I might I this has been fun. Great. I had a feeling after listening to your podcast that we would be chatting away like old pals. Oh, yes, we are.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:58

Yeah, definitely. I think that's one thing with Sean fans too. I think there's a lot of connection there.

Farewell And Where To Follow

SPEAKER_05 1:01:03

Yeah. Yeah, we have that. We have us. Well, the one thing we can't say is we have nothing in common. Because we have the one common denominator. Right. And more than one, even. Yeah. And everything else. And you're just a hoot. I was so happy to connect you with our friends from the pop culture preservation society, Kristen. Because she is a writer of children's books. She's a silly a hoot. And, you know, I'm like, I gotta get these two together sometime. Yeah, I would love to cross paths with them someday, too.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:39

Oh, yeah. They're great.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:41

Yeah. They travel sometimes. I mean, they used to all live in Minnesota. Now they all live around the globe. But yeah, just um follow them. And I am, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:53

I am, thanks to your recommendation.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:55

So thank you.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:56

Thank you for inviting me to be on this. It was so great.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:58

Oh, we loved it. We should do it again. Let me know. I can always back away.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:03

If you come out of retirement and start producing anything, just give us a shout out.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:08

Maybe when Sean and I are producing the our twist my charm show. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:13

Yeah, definitely. That's a great time to do it. You just said it out loud. I'm going to get my happy positive voodoo doll, and I'm going to wish for that.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:20

Oh, yes. Put that to use. That's what we'll end it on. Yes. You will have your juju mojo gris gris doo poo-doo. Poo-doo? That's right from the book. It's going to bring good juju mojo gris gris and poo-doo. So you just said it out loud, it's going to happen. It's going to happen. Well, thank you, ladies.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:45

Hope you have cross hands again.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:50

Thank you from the bottom of our teen dream hearts. Keep on crushing. Always believe in magic.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:56

And have a peaceful, fantastic week. And don't forget to follow us on Facebook, Instagram, Thread, and subscribe to our new YouTube page. Make sure to keep in touch with Dr.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:08

R email. Sean Squad Society. It's email.com.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:13

The Sean Squad Society podcast, including past president future versions, and its contents are always controlled by the Sean Squad Society. The podcast is written, produced, and recorded at the Ordinance Studios, and the views and opinions are still with those of the Sean Squad Society Podcast. We may think we are always right, but we may get things wrong from time to time. So we assume no responsibility for errors of submission of content.