KICS2E9 "Play-Based Learning: Unlocking Potential in Preschoolers" Featuring Tobie Franklin 2

Toby and Tobie’s conversation revolves around inclusive education, early childhood development, and effective communication between educators, families, and professionals. The guest, Tobie Franklin, emphasizes the importance of play-based learning for preschoolers and stresses the significance of understanding individual needs and differences. Topics such as readiness for school, timely interventions, and building trusting relationships with families are discussed in detail. The conversation underscores the idea that behavior is a form of communication and highlights the necessity of nurturing children's strengths while addressing their challenges. Throughout the dialogue, there is a focus on fostering collaboration, respect, and empathy in educational settings to ensure the holistic development of young learners.

#TobyKarten #TobieFranklin #Karten’sInclusionConversations #KIC #Inclusion #InclusiveEducation #EarlyChildhoodDevelopment #PreschoolLearning #PlayBasedLearning#SpecialEducation #CommunicationInEducation #CollaborativeTeaching #ParentPartnerships #ChildDevelopment #EmpoweringPreschoolers #EducationalPodcast #InclusionMatters #NurturingDifferences #SupportingFamilies #EducationForAll 

For more information please visit https://inclusionworkshops.com/

Transcript

0:00

Hello, everybody. We are with Cartons Inclusion Conversations, and I'm honored to have a repeat guest. She is a professional, and I am also honored to say she's a dear friend of mine. And Ms. Tobie Franklin has worked with different populations of learners from infants to all the way to adulthood. And she's also worked in five different countries, not only the United States, where we met at an inclusion school in New York City, but she also works in where she currently resides in Canada. She's done work in Scotland. She's done work in Israel. She's done work in England. And globally, she has communicated good teaching practices for students. She's an educational specialist. Her background is special education, along with assessment and curriculum. And something very important in this day and age as well is human rights law. So Tobie Franklin, welcome to KIC again. Thank you for coming back. Well, thank you for asking me to come back. Well, our collaboration has been ongoing in terms of getting the knowledge out there. And this podcast is another way to do that. And we were going to narrow it down for this specific one. And you're currently doing a lot of work with the preschool population. And there are some things that we need to think about. And that's basically what do preschoolers and their families need to know? Like I talk about the inclusion do's, don'ts, and do bettas. What are some of the do's and don'ts and specifically for the population of our preschool learners and their families and professionals? Well, I'm happy to talk about that. So I don't have these ideas in a particular order. To start, I'd like to say that it's really important that families understand that children learn through play. It's key. It's through play that children get to explore a world they can master. They can conquer some of their fears while they get to practice different kinds of roles. If they're allowed to play undirected, I would say by adults, but at least adults there to facilitate if there is a need for that. They get to develop decision-making skills, problem solving. They get to discover their own interests, to engage in their passions. And it's really a way to enhance like all areas of development. I can't highlight enough how important play is. You know, Tobie, we're talking about the preschool population, but I think that we could also say that play and experiential learning is very important for all populations of learners. Would you agree with that? Absolutely. Kind of like the John Dewey experiential approach? Absolutely. And I forgot to mention something that's also really important. It allows children to experience joy. Love that. Love that. I don't have to say, oh, gee, it could be fun. They need to smile. Goody, goody. Brain research supports that when people feel good about themselves, they enjoy their playing with their learning experience, it becomes more concrete and part of them. So thank you so much for reminding us of the importance of play. It's not taking away from the academics in our opinions, but I think we both agree it enhances it. I actually remember Mr. Rogers from Mr. Rogers Neighborhood saying that play is children's work. Love that. Thank you. Thank you. So that's one of the, one of the do's, are there other do's or don'ts that we need to highlight? Well, again, it's not in particular order, but children act very differently at home than they do in school. And that's sometimes hard for parents to understand, but there's so many different things happening in their environment in both the home and school. At school, there's other children who are, who have their own needs and teachers are engaging with them as well. Different noise levels. It could be the space has more people. And so sometimes what happens when a teacher reports to a parent, some things that are happening at school that erase sometimes what I call an orange flag, but they want to bring it to the parent's attention. It's sometimes hard for parents to understand because they say, I don't see this at home. Right. And so it's understanding because the environments are so different that children aren't going to necessarily behave in the same way. I'm thinking too about what happens sometimes if a child is experiencing challenges that are really causing them to feel frustrated during the day and even to cause mental or physical fatigue, sometimes what happens, they hold it together during the day. And so the teachers don't, aren't even aware that this is going on. And then soon as they see the parents in the safety of their parents, they fall apart. So parents see these children having tantrums, meltdowns, sometimes being very belligerent. And yet the teachers don't see that because again, they're holding it together. You just brought across a very important point that I know you feel very strongly about and I do as well. Every behavior is a form of communication. So what you just said, it's what's going on under the surface. And the other point I wanted to just piggyback on and emphasize as well is you brought up several factors here and I think it falls under perhaps that big umbrella of communication and collaboration, right? And so that's critical. Like you want to school to ensure that they're working with parents or families as partners, right? It could be grandparents, it could be extended family, but you have to work in a partnership. And so what is so important is that parents share information. So I'm going to talk about two kinds of information. One, if there's a change in their family, this is like in the preschool years, a change could be everything from a child moving from a crib to a big bed. Families are starting to toilet train a child. Their family is actually moving to a new, let's say, apartment or location. A family member is coming to stay with them and might take over the child's bedroom. It could be that there's a new baby or the mother is at least starting to show that she's pregnant. So these changes impact the child and parents need to understand how critical it is. They might not think it's as significant to them as it is to their child, but they need to report this to the teachers because sometimes the children start acting differently and then the teachers don't understand what's going on. And also there could be some of these things that are happening, the teachers could bring them up in a way in the classroom that's going to help these children understand better what's going on. So that's one kind of communication changes. And the other is like when they are applying to a school, it could be on the application, it could be in the interview, but schools want to know if children have had any kind of intervention, if they're receiving any kind of services, for example, like speech or language therapy, if the child was born premature, chances are there are some services in place. And what I have noticed over the years, and I understand it from a parent's perspective, parents feel like I don't want to divulge this information because maybe this is the school that I really want. And they're thinking the school is not going to admit their child. Tobie, let's clarify this is for private enrollment. Correct? Yeah, sorry for private enrollment, but you brought up communication. So I'm thinking this is something that's really important. And so what happens is they don't share this information. Maybe not the first week or two, children are sometimes having what we call a honeymoon period, but certain behaviors start to emerge or challenges. And the teachers really have to reinvent the wheel because they don't know what's going on. But then I also have to say to parents too, do you want, and hopefully if they do share this information, the school has a support system and they can work with the family. But if the school doesn't have that kind of support system, I say to the families, do you want to send your child to a school where you're not setting them up for success? If you already know they have these challenges and the school doesn't have the supports in place, then that's not going to be fair to your child. Yeah. And honestly, and that is a word, honest, honest communication. And I think Tobie, that would be a two way streak. Let's just clarify for our listeners. Yes, we're both named Toby, but I think you already figured that out. We just spell our names differently, but we have the same special ed and gen ed strategies running through our bloodstream. But Tobie, that honesty is important. Sometimes parents, I know that you'll agree there are different stages of acceptance with their students being students in school, but children at home and the behavior, like you said, is different. But that communication and collaboration I think has to be ongoing because we want generalization. What good is it if they learn this skill in school and they aren't able to pull out that skill at home? So if we have the communication, perhaps professionals could help families tweak or maybe families could help professionals by giving them that knowledge that you just said, like, is there a change going on? And so we as professionals could be proactive. And I think what we are seeing here and what you keep emphasizing is individualized and responsive. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. I love, I love that. So, you know, readiness, I hear that term in preschool readiness skills. What do you consider to be readiness? I'm thinking about when I have met with families and their children are entering school for the first time, whether it be public school or independent schools, a lot of times there's this notion that they have to like prep their children to go to school. And it's like, I'm afraid to say that I've seen this even with like two year old. There's no second. What do you mean by prep? Like rehearsal? Yeah. Like let's sing the alphabet song. Let's practice the alphabet song or let's do some counting. And I've seen that even with like, even the youngest parents thinking that their children need to have some kind of academic readiness to enter preschool. And that is not what a school is looking for. Right? What is the school looking for? So they're looking for, first of all, that the family understands the philosophy of the school and the school isn't just a good fit for their child, but it's a good fit for their family, the community of the school, because hopefully they're going to be there for a while. And I've learned in many cases where the school almost becomes an extended family. Like if there's, there's some kind of crisis, families rally around and support that. Can I stop you a minute, Tobie, and ask you when you say philosophy of a school, could you perhaps give our readers a little more explanation about what you consider to be an ideal, let's say philosophy of a preschool environment? In my opinion, first of all, I think that the school, as I talked, should be play-based and not all preschools are play-based. Right? So I think that's really important that they understand that the school is there to nurture the child's whole development. And in preschool in particular, social emotional development is key. You're teaching children how to, to get along with others, how to initiate a conversation system. Hey, you think that's a life school, Tobie, right? Absolutely. Right. So what about kids who have autism, kids who have specific learning difference? So again, it's a philosophy of the school, like does the school and it's what their support system looks like. And this school again, about honesty, do they have the support in place for a child who is on the spectrum, who has behavior, who has difficulty, like with self-regulation, which, and I'm talking about an extreme here, because when they come in as two year olds, that's something they're learning. That's something they're learning how to develop all through the preschool years. But children that are what we say, like outliers, do they have that kind of support? And if they don't have therapists in the school, can the family bring in therapy? Like these are things they need to discuss. So that would be part of the philosophy and the framework of the school is having the supports needed for the students who might need blank, whether it's behavioral strategies, social and emotional issues going on, or perhaps a literacy difference. Right. Right. It could be most children have strengths and they have challenges. And sometimes it's very extreme. Sometimes we say children have like an asynchronous profile. I've heard the expression that sometimes it's like a child has super highways and they also have some dirt roads and some bridges that what a great analogy. So not completely. So again, even if a child is experiencing some kind of challenges, if they have strengths, those also have to be nurtured and they also have to be used as a bridge. And so that's really, that's all part of the philosophy too. And I always say you want the school to meet your child where they are. So if you do have a precocious child entering, I'm giving an example of a child who entered a preschool that I'm consulting at this year, who was two years old and came in reciting the alphabet, extremely advanced verbal skills, talks and complete sentences at two years old and the same child, by the way, had only learned to walk the week before. And so there was a discussion. The teachers had a discussion with the parents about this, like, what are your goals for your child? Because we are not, even though we want to move children along lines of growth in two, we are not stressing academics for two year olds. And so happily, these parents said this child was one of these children who just picked this up almost through osmosis and no, their goal was to really nurture and foster social emotional development. Even though this child came in with these, as I said, a precocious child at two years old. You mentioned something that was very important. I don't consider any kid to be an outlier. I just consider us all to be individuals and, and it's that philosophy. And they're an outlier in terms of like what the school thought they were looking for. And then they realize, oh, this is a child we definitely want to support. Right. And that's a two way street from what you're saying. And that's an important point to make and thinking about these early interventions. And I know that, you know, we talk about preschool, the preschool years, they're critical. It's not just your opinion. It's just not my opinion, but many researchers in the field will confirm that critical time period for, for, for students to, to know and grow and become little people in that underage. Would you say it's under age five for preschool? Absolutely. I mean, if teachers see signs that this child needs support, I would hope that they're going to share that with the school administration. They're going to share that with parents and they're going to develop a plan around that. I'm just going to give an example of that. I went to an IEP meeting yesterday for a child who was in kindergarten. He's one of the younger students in kindergarten, but he's already showing signs of anxiety around going to school. He has signs of difficulty learning what we call readiness skills for reading that are taught in kindergarten, like rhyming, which is actually a predictor of reading achievement and breaking words into syllables. He avoids books, even books that play to his, his interests and his passions, but he likes stories being read to him. And at this meeting they said, well, he's too young. Maybe next year we'll get him some help. And I was, I was actually in shock that they were saying this. Let a whole year pass, doesn't receive services. And knowing that if he doesn't like build competencies, then he's not going to build self-esteem. And that's like dominoes between the academic failures and social and emotional. Cause a lot of kids, we know when they say work, Oh, this is stupid. It's cold war. I don't know how to do this. So I'm frustrated, but they might not express that. He even asked his parents for help. This was articulated at the meeting. There's also a strong family history of similar challenges on both sides. And I'm just thinking to myself, this child is anxious. And when you're anxious, information does not flow readily to your prefrontal cortex. It's going to affect your memory. So all these things are really important to take into consideration. And I just, I just couldn't believe that this support team at an IEP meeting, we're saying we should wait. We're not saying that he needs like a full-blown neurological assessment right now, but a speech and language therapist can certainly assess some of his skills. There's indication that he needs occupational therapy and an occupational therapist could assess what his needs are and develop plans, but to wait all the children out there that aren't getting what they need. And that's such a critical age. And it sounded like the student that you described definitely had a sensory disparities, you know, liking, liking to hear the stories, not liking to read them visual. And there were patterns. That's why there were related service providers. Like you mentioned the OT occupational therapist, maybe this particular student needed a sensory diet of some kind. Yes, he does. And the social worker, he seemed to get the anxiety part. He says, well, you know, maybe next year, maybe next year, I'll be able to see him. Maybe not next year. Maybe now, maybe now, I mean, definitely now let's change that to be to definitely now we need to make sure that what you said, and I think you'll agree a big do is timely interventions It is critical because I've worked like you with hundreds and hundreds of children. And I'm here to say it makes all the difference. Like I was saying to the parents, your child will thrive because, you know, I get why they're so worried because of the struggles they had your child with will thrive if we get him the right support now. I can't agree with you more. I just wanted before we close our podcast, I want to talk about a little bit about emotions. We spoke about some things that the emotions that the preschools are feeling. We touched upon professionals and we touched upon a little bit of families. And sometimes those emotions don't mesh. You know, you've seen different stages of parents, especially a parent of a child, family with a child with a difference and the impact it has, the emotions. Some people are more accepting. Some people are in denial. Some people shop for different diagnoses. What positive communications can we give to a parent of a preschooler that might be exhibiting a difference and how could we reach out to them in a positive way? What message would you like to give? I often have to deliver information to families. Like I have the teachers in the meeting, but I'm usually the one who's the messenger, right? Family coordinator as well. Right. What I've explained to teachers is sometimes I'll have a conversation with them that, okay, this is the meeting where, you know, we've already had other conversations, but this is the meeting where I say it's time for this child to get a full assessment by a professional. That's like another whole topic and what those assessments look like. But what I'm saying now is the time we really need to gather information and the assessment, it's not about giving the child, I know parents are afraid of labels, it's about helping to understand how their child processes information, how they interact with their environment and materials. And also I find if children have challenges, often their strengths that are being masked that they're not showing up in school, they might be showing up at home because of all the effort and also children afraid to take risks and make mistakes. That's again, another whole topic. So I'll say to the teachers, okay, this is the meeting where I'm going to introduce this. And I make sure that I have lots of options in terms of sliding scales and try to help the family find someone who will assess that's going to gel with their family for a lot of different reasons. But what happens, I go into the meeting and I have to gauge where their parents are. And sometimes after talking to them at the beginning of the meeting, I realized they're still not ready to hear this information and forcing it upon them is not the time. It's sort of like slow and steady sometimes, even though I know how important early intervention is and there are already things put into place by the teachers, right, helping them in school. But I think we need more information. I realize I can't do it at this moment. It's really like a dance, there's a balance and I have to wait. I still working on this trusting, developing a trusting relationship with these families. And I've also worked with different populations that have had a history that soon as they hear that their child needs an assessment, it also means we're kicking your child out of the school. It has happened in different populations that I've worked with in different communities. And so again, I have to like gauge where these parents are when they're ready to receive information and how to proceed with them. But again, it's about building a trusting relationship. It's the same way with children. They have to feel, and I'm talking about preschool and all the way through, they have to feel not only physically safe, but emotionally secure in the classroom because that will allow their brain to then attend to like learning. And if you think back to your own school experiences, if you had a teacher that you had a negative relationship or there was like some horrible experience, you don't remember any of the content. You don't remember. None of that sticks with you. What sticks with you is that negative experience. I couldn't agree with you more. I'm going to just paraphrase Maya Angelou when she said, people will remember how you treat them long after they forget what you said to them. Absolutely. And what you're seeing is sensitivity, sensitivity, accurate assessment, communication, trust. I will also say in preschool, nurturing, nurturing, and that goes for the parents, the families and the children. Right. Right. And I'm sure that you're sending your child into a nurturing environment. And that's a good thing for parents to, to focus on. And nurturing has a broad definition. I think many spokes to that umbrella as well. And nurturing means not only individualizing, but I think that huge thing of this podcast that we could say is that communication, that communication might be difficult communication sometimes, but it has to be accurate. And it also has to move everyone forward. That goes for the teachers too, because I've had the experience where teachers have seen signs that a child needs additional support, but there are sometimes it's about pleasing people. And so what happens is they'll sugarcoat what's going on, let's say in a parent teacher conference, because they want the parents to like them. So they think if they only deliver positive information. So I've seen that happen a lot too. And so again, it comes back to being honest and developing trusting relationship and working in collaboration. Right. And also respect. And I think respect, I respect what you're saying. And if a parent disagreed with that, it's a difficult conversation. And I've had some difficult conversations. I always try to make it based on the data. Here's what we see, here's what's going on. How can we interpret this? And sometimes, like you said, the child might act one way at home, a different way at school. And it's kind of like, let's make this time to have the student grow. And I love that you used the word earlier, nurture. We nurture each other. We need to nurture our preschoolers strengths. And that can happen without that collaboration, which is something that has to be ongoing. So Tobie Franklin, any closing remarks you'd like to say to our listening audience? Well, it's something you said before, and I want parents to understand this too, is that behavior is a form of communication. Exactly. Behavior is a form of communication. Our podcast is a form of communication. And I hope our listeners achieve some good insights for preschoolers, even though that was the topic, I think to adults and professionals as well. Tobie Franklin, thank you for your expertise with the preschool population. If people want to reach you, Tobie, I will put in the links in our transcript from the podcast. All right. Thank you so much. Thank you, Tobie. Looking forward to speaking with you again. Always a pleasure. Thank you so much. Bye. He can feel the stairs and hear the words unspoken, not so unaware of a world that thinks he's broken and who never even knew a kid with a different point of view. I know they never really knew a kid with a different point of view. Copyright 2024, Cartons Inclusive Conversations. Thank you for listening. Check out other episodes on all major platforms.