KIC S3E2 ""Empowering Every Student: Flexible Teaching Methods" Featuring Carrie and KC Bree

Toby’s conversation with Carrie and KC Bree" centers on educational approaches, inclusion, and personalized learning. Carrie and KC  discuss the importance of adapting teaching methods to fit individual student needs, sharing personal and professional experiences. They highlight how different students, including those with special needs, can thrive with the right support. Key themes include making learning relevant and engaging by connecting it to students' interests, and the significance of building relationships to understand each student's unique learning style. The conversation also touches on the challenges of advocating for tailored educational approaches over conventional norms, emphasizing the value of flexible, inclusive, and empathetic teaching practices.

#TobyKarten #CarrieBree #KCBree #Karten’sInclusionConversations #KIC #Inclusion #InclusiveEducation  #InclusiveEducation #PersonalizedLearning #StudentCentered #EducationInnovation #TeachingStrategies #AdaptiveLearning #SpecialNeedsEducation #EmpowerStudents #FlexibleTeaching #EngagedLearning

For more information please visit https://inclusionworkshops.com/

Transcript

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Welcome to Karten's Inclusion Conversations, and I have the honor of being with two people on this podcast, and the two people happen to have a last name a little bit in common here, and I'm speaking with Carrie Brie and her mom, Katherine Brie. So welcome to Karten's Inclusion Conversations. We met- Thank you so much for having us. Oh, my pleasure. We actually know each other less than a week. Is that correct? Absolutely. Yeah. Maybe you can explain to the listeners how we met. Terrific. Yeah. We both teach for Garwood Public Schools in Garwood, New Jersey, and part of the program that our administrators provide to all teachers and staff are in-house professional development classes. So last week we had Friday off for students, but on for teachers, and we became the students. Toby helped walk us through an entire course about inclusion and co-teaching, giving us tips, tricks, websites, links, all kinds of information, ideas, mostly ideas that we could utilize in our everyday working environment as teachers in the school. Thank you, Casey. And that was great. And you happen to be a middle school science teacher. Is that correct? Yes. That's correct. So I am the sole middle school science teacher for our school district, which means that I teach every and all sixth, seventh, and eighth graders. I see 122 students a day. Whoa. Let's do the math there. Yes. Wait a minute. And let's go over some other numbers. You've been at the school for 13 years. Is that correct? Yes. My 14th year. Yep. 14th year. I was not always a teacher. I actually started out at the school as a paraprofessional. My son, Carrie's younger brother, was really struggling when he was in the younger grades. He had finally been diagnosed as ADHD when we finally decided to use medication, which at the time for me was a very difficult decision as a parent, but we did. And which was, as it turns out in the end, one of the best things that we could have ever done because that gave our son back the control of some of his surroundings and his environment. And what it did reveal to us, however, is that he is autistic. He's on the autistic spectrum. At the time, they called it high functioning autism or Asperger's syndrome, but it is one of the spectrum under the Asperger's umbrella. He academically was excelling, in fact, beyond his grades. The problem was the social development, the social-emotional learning environment. He was really struggling with any of his classes that were less structured. So physical education, art class, music class, lunch, recess, those classes were difficult to say the least. So I quit my job in business and went and worked for just over minimum wage to be a paraprofessional in the school and provide the assistance to our son that he needed in those less structured classrooms. So I worked in the gym as phys ed for eight and a half years and did lunches and recesses. And as my son went to leave and go off to high school very successfully, I had also found my passion to be a teacher with these same students and said, never mind, he may be moving on, but I'm not. My administrators or school staff or my superintendent personally sat me down and pretty much begged me to go back and get my teaching certification, which I did do. I did obtain a master's in education. I did my student teaching. I am dual certified in both science and middle school math. And an opening came up as the middle school science teacher in the township of Garwood. I took it. The rest is history. So I have been there 14 years now. Thank you. Thank you. And it certainly is a family affair because Carrie's here as well. And Carrie, I was reading a little bit about your bio and your story, and you both just impressed me so much. I just did a workshop all about attitude and having a positive one. And your positive attitude on how to help your son, you, you, you brought forth that that saying that, you know, necessity is the mother of invention. You went to school because you knew that you could make a difference, but not only in your son's life when he graduated, but then you said, I need to learn more and do more and, and Carrie, your entrance into the field of education in mom's applauding. Because I really just, you know, I think this whole story is so contagious for our listeners to promote positivity and, and, and passion, which you both, she, I think she got it through the bloodline. I'm not sure, but she has become a 100% beloved teacher in our school in an extremely short period of time. I think that the students can feel her passion for the subjects that she teaches, but moreover for the students themselves, she individualizes her student base. And they know that they have a very personal connection. That's hard to say that you have a personal connection with 120 students, but in fact Carrie most definitely does well, Carrie, you went to the field during COVID. Do you want to explain how that happened? Yeah. So actually I went to college for history and the classics and everything that has to do with that ancient Greek mythology, archeology, can I, can I interrupt and just share with our listeners that you have a quadruple minor. I never knew anyone. That's right. Ancient Greek mythology, ancient Mediterranean civilization and archeology. Whoa. I also tried to get a Latin minor, but they said no. So yeah. Well, so Toby, I have to brag. Carrie also had a double major and she did all of that during COVID in three and a half years. Yes. She spent the last half of her fourth year, her senior year studying abroad in Europe. I got to work on castles and things over there, which originally was what I had been aiming for was archeology and a museum situation. But with COVID came a necessity for substitute teachers. And I had a really close relationship with the superintendent at Garwood school when I was a student there. So when I had talked to her one day just to catch up during COVID, when I went to visit my mom, she was like, listen, you have enough college credits, would you please be a substitute teacher? And I was like, I have no idea what I am doing. But of course, like, of course, I'll help out. And within probably a month, I was like, huh, like, not only do I find it natural, it also something I enjoy. And so it kind of just went from there. And I was too far into my studies to change what I was doing. So I ended up going back to school because I love school. I love learning. It's one of my favorite things. I know everybody rolls their eyes and they're like, oh, how can you do more school? I can go to school. Not this room. We're educators. You won't find that. I can go to school forever. I try to learn something new at least once a week, like I love to learn. And so I went back to school and I got my teaching, sir. I'm almost done with my master's in education. And I truly have found my home in what I want to do. So I love the way your passion just exudes. And you spoke both of you spoke about that word relationships. Now you both teach you teach science. That's a heavy academic subject. And I'm going to play the side of someone who says you have no time to connect with the kids. Too much content to cover. We don't have time for the fluff. All right. You're both shaking your heads. No account. You want to explain why you are like avidly shaking your head there? I right now I'm a ELA longterm sub, but I want to be a middle school social studies teacher. And that's what I did my student teaching and everything like that. And I know that people can find history to be like mind numbingly boring. And history actually is literally a story. And it's really, really interesting when you actually engage with the history and not just bang your head against the textbook. So like, there's kids that are really good with textbook learning, and they're great at that. And so you do have text excerpts and stuff like that to work with them. But you also need to cater to the other students that are more artistic or more visual learners. So you need to be able to connect with those kids to the thing that you're teaching. And with that comes connecting to them and understanding who they are and what they need. And so with that, you're teaching it in a bunch of different ways, and you're learning about them, and they're learning about you and your subject, and it kind of all blends together. So there's always time to build those connections because you need those connections to be able to properly educate them. Love it. Carrie, you said that so perfectly. That would have been exactly how, Toby had said science is such a heavy subject, and it is, and we have a tremendous curriculum that we need to cover. And it is something, unfortunately, that is tested in the state of New Jersey at the end of eighth grade. So I only have one shot at it, and I need to show that my students learned all of earth and space science in sixth grade and all of life science in seventh grade and all of their physical sciences, chemistry, physics by eighth grade, and I get one shot at it. But just as Carrie was saying, I can't teach even the most basic of concepts unless I can relate it to their world. That is so key to even starting the subject. Can I have you memorize and regurgitate vocabulary terms? Absolutely. But you're not learning any of the science. Instead for us to do science, you have to have an understanding and a relationship. That's how we get it started. I taught an eighth grade student who had failed, failed, failed, failed every single year until I got him in eighth grade, and he's supposed to learn chemistry. And everybody had written him off, except because of my personal relationship, I knew one of his passions was skateboarding. So we literally learned an entire year of chemistry based on the saddle and the alloys and why metals and off the periodic table and what rusts and corrodes and what doesn't and why do you not want to run it through salty water. He knew all of the chemistry. He just needed to get extracted by making a personal connection for him. So you made a personal connection first to him to find out about him. You took the time. Yes. And you can do that when you communicate with your students rather than at your students. Thank you. And wait a minute. If I remember correctly, if I'm getting this number right, 120, how many students, 122 per day, 122 students. And that's it. I don't have my gifted and talented, which we're not allowed to call anymore. It's now the enrichment children. I also am the head of the enrichment program for the elementary students. So I have your spare time, Catherine. My goodness. Yes. You come on the podcast and we talk and, and it took both of you like a mega second when I said, would you like to be guests, you know, because I just get that feeling that not only just professionalism and knowledge run in your veins, but also the desire to connect and help others and that passion. And you took what someone else might look as something that's not the way you expected it to be with your son and a diagnosis. And you let him live beyond that diagnosis of ADHD. And you said then it was high functioning autism on a spectrum and, and we all exist on a spectrum. Right. But, but could you tell our listening audience where your son is today and what, what he's doing? You're well, Carrie. Carrie really lived with it. He was on the short end of that, that experience, but we had a diagnosis for our son when he was at the end of his second grade in school. So it was a later diagnosis for the autism. At that time, they told us that he would probably not graduate a mainstream high school. He would never drive a car. He wouldn't be veritably unemployable. He would live either with us at home or need to be in a residential facility for autistic adults. And that just did not seem acceptable to his father and I, and Carrie had blazed the way ahead of him, unfortunately. So she really set a pretty high mark, as you can tell by her grades, to then have somebody who just was almost the antithesis of Carrie in terms of self motivation, in terms of socializing, in terms of academics or the desire for the academics in the formalized setting. I had the ADHD and the OCD in the opposite direction. I needed to hit the stars to be able to sleep at night. Yeah. So, and it just, it seemed insurmountable all those years ago. I can tell you that today, our son Carrie's brother is turning 22 next month. He is graduating, yes, he's graduating from Kean University with his bachelor's in business with a specialty in entrepreneurial studies. He has already been accepted into the Electrician's Labor Union 104 here in New Jersey. They are paying for him to go to trade school. He drives a car. He lives in his own apartment. He has a girlfriend who's fantastic. He is an absolute success story of what students, people are capable of when you include every possible way of learning for them. Thank you. He always had this ability. The difference is that we were trying to shove my very square peg through a traditional round hole, and it wasn't working. So in fact, we found other things that did work. And that meant at times it was changing every five days to a new method. Let's try this. Let's try this. It was medication. It was theories. It was therapies. It was multimodal. It wasn't just one. You didn't give him the medication and go, now it's going to work. You also gave other supports alongside of it, and you made that decision like, do we want him to take this medicine? And I'm sure that a lot of factors go into that, but the bottom line is, what does our son need? What does this student need? What do we do differently to get the kids to learn? And you have to include all different elements. Some students learn visually, some learn auditory. I just put up these inclusion principles and I'm looking through them and you ladies mentioned teachings through strengths, provide opportunities for success, that VAKT visual, auditory, right? Are there any others that you think are important to discuss or that our listeners that you could put some meat on with the subjects and the students that you work with, including how your son got to be so successful, either advice for moms and dads and families of other children who maybe were told that about the limitations? Well I think, moreover, looking at all of these, and these are fantastic ideas, the idea is that there is no one correct blanket method for all students, period. My son with his autism, repetition did not work. He found that extremely frustrating. He already knew the material. Why does he need to repeat it? So he, so long as he got the scores, the grades, he could prove to us that he understood the material. There was no reason to have him repeat, do homework and repetitive practice if he could prove that he understood the material. So that works. Carrie, on the other hand, as another student child of mine, needed to repeat. She had flash cards. She would write it out. She would listen to it. She would read about it. She would repeat this process. My goodness in my hand, my pen, my pencil. I look at it in different ways, right? And both students could not be more different learners, and both students could learn the same material differently and successfully. When I first was studying the pedagogy and becoming a teacher and what have you, I came across Einstein's famous statement about if you are to judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will forever live its life thinking it was a failure. I was going to bring that up. That's so at the core of what we need to be and do as teachers. Not every method of instruction is correct. Try them all. Throw everything at the wall. Maybe one of them will stick. In terms of assessment, not one method is going to give you the answer as to whether these kids know the material or not. It needs to be a variety of assessments. So it's not just our techniques in teaching. It's also our techniques in assessment as well in order to find out whether our students are learning the material and capable of building upon it. It's really, it's so multimodal in all regards. I like the way you said that and building upon it. So we facilitate the learning and we want them to hold the reins in that respect. And that's true learning. And, you know, successful post-secondary outcomes. You know, I just have this broad smile thinking of all the potential that your son has as a successful career. And that didn't happen by accident, right? And it didn't happen. And to Shari's credit, she comes naturally this idea that cross-curricular activities. So she's teaching right now a book that's set in, correct me if I'm wrong, Carrie, but medieval times, I believe it is? Yes. And so it's an ELA class. So they are acting it out. They are reading aloud. They are reading individually. But she's bringing in extracurricular things. She does have a pen chat for history. They are talking about what do you expect during medieval times to kind of bring more character, more material to what they're reading about and trying to develop upon. So they are writing about it. And then this one was classic. Yesterday, she convinces me to use the science laboratory equipment to make medieval porridge. Stop it. Oh, my God. I swear. Well, my science students are coming in going, what are you doing? And I'm like, no, it's for ELA. And there's steel cut oats. Are you saying that one subject and concept can hop into another room? Yes. Hello. Yes. Talk about engaging. So now this boring book about an era that has no relevance to students today, supposedly. In fact, now they are eating the foods and they are dressing the parts and they are acting it out and they are writing about it and they're reading about it and they are working with each other about it. So she's hitting every angle because something somewhere is going to make the connection for the student. And another really important part is digital. Our world today is so, so digital that that's not something that you can entirely ignore. And ELA is a lot of like reading and writing, which is great. You need those skills, but you also need to be able to connect them to the modern world. Like today, we don't need to pull up a dictionary from under our desk and look for a word. We thankfully have Google, but you need to learn how to properly research it and figure out what's the correct way to do this. And it also gives you an insight with the book. Yes. Glass blowing. They had no idea what I was talking. So I paused and I was like, you know what, let's just pull up a video right now. I will show you a glass blowing is because it didn't even occur to me at first that some students might not know what I'm talking about. And so just throwing that digital component in there and being able to be like, we're stopping. Let's work from here, like kind of be on your toes and figure out what you need to do. And that is really important. You have picked up so naturally and I'm just so impressed with the idea of, yes, we write out our lesson plans. Yes, we have intentions of covering certain materials at certain paces and the curriculum and that. And I get that. However, as educators, not at the career, but I'm talking about the passion of being an actual educator. The flexibility, the fly, the on the spot. There is an aspect of being able to react to the situation, to the student, to the questions, to everything that you don't have to follow what you wrote step by step as your lesson plans. When things go sideways or when things when there's on the spot moments to extend the inquiry, to to branch out from there because there is so much benefit to that. You have to have the flexibility, adaptability, adaptability and more to be able to do exactly what you're saying. Say stop. Let's let's use some of our resources. Let's delve into this a little further. And that goes look like inclusion was real moment, right? Real moment teaching, Carrie, what you did there and and knowing that, you know, something and you have to send us the recipe for that. I mean, the orange glass blowing for our listeners. But that goes with prior knowledge. The first inclusion principle. Some kids never heard of glass blowing. Right. And they're fascinated. And you could do the literacy skills through that because that's right. You just ate disgusting porridge. It's gross. Let's find out what else they have to do at that time. Oh, my. Carrie, we're going to say something else with going back to the fish climbing the tree and everything that we've talked about. When I was doing all of my stuff to become a teacher, one of the things that I had read was your your classroom is a garden. Every single student you want to nurture them to grow. But it doesn't mean that they're all the same plant and they're all going to grow at the same rate. So some students are going to be a posy that's going to shoot up really fast and be absolutely beautiful and the star of the show. And there's going to be the green bean that needs some more tending to and is going to grow at a slower rate. But they're going to get there and they're going to be amazing. But they grow at all different rates and they're all different kinds of plants. And that goes like with the whole inclusion thing and being able to think on your feet, because what you do for one flower isn't what you do for another flower. You need to be on your toes. You need to make sure you hit all the grounds for everybody and kind of take care of the whole garden. I love that we're approaching. We're in actually March that we're having this conversation and the podcast is going to be delivered at another time. But we're approaching spring. We're approaching birth and beautiful seeds that have been planted. And that analogy is so true because I look at you and mom planted and dad planted some beautiful seeds that have grown into coming into the field of education and benefiting others like Domino's. You know, you were in a home that valued learning, that valued relationships with. And what you said, Casey, maybe when you found out about your son's diagnosis, you had to have tough conversations within the family, with with other professionals. Did that happen? And how did you deal with that? How would you advise listeners to deal with some things that they might view as adversities? It's interesting that you ask that. When when our son was in the process of diagnosis and we were approaching the school system, there was this blanket method of how you handle an autistic child. They were to receive a one on one aid that would follow them around all day and just take care of them at all times. And with our son, we refused to do that. So we said instead and it was so controversial and people thought that we were the worst parents on the planet. They said, if you want to receive services, then you need to do it this way and only this way. And we said, well, then we don't need your services that badly. And we went out of pocket. Things are different today, thankfully. But at the time, you only you had to get an IEP, an individualized education plan for the student. And then they would receive this one on one adult who would be there showing with the blanket thing. Anyone with autism got a one on one, had to have an IEP, had to have a one on one. Now, in second grade, he was doing three digit multiplication in his head. Couldn't prove it. So math is his strength, yes? Math, engineering, yes. Manipulatives, very much a kinesthetic learner, tactile learner. If you asked him to sit down and read a whole chapter in a book, don't mind you, he was reading in kindergarten, like completely by himself. But if you asked him as a second grader to sit down and read five pages straight, he can't. He cannot. And he is unable to infer information from passages to this day. That's not a skill that he has. He can read the direction manual once, 25 pages long, and go back and build the entire thing from soup to nuts. No problem. But he watched YouTube on it, right? Right. Exactly. How many times have I done that to learn a new tech tool? And like you said, both of you are strong proponents that there's not one way whether to learn something. And you're married to. Because back then it was one way. Right. And so you're asking, you know, when I faced this kind of adversity, I felt at my husband, we were so strong in our convictions about that. Our son is not like anybody else I've ever met. And I'm not saying he's not capable. I am saying that this method doesn't work for him. I don't know what does. And it changed constantly what did. But I had this fantastic small school with teachers that I was able to go in. I could take care of the social parts, the unstructured classroom parts. And I said, you're the math teacher. You teach him the math. You're the Spanish teacher. You teach him Spanish or whatever it was. Academically, he excelled. He did fine. He did not need an adult aide on his as a human backpack. And at the time that that burden because those students were clearly identified as being those students, quote unquote. And he did not need modified tests or or other accommodations that are modifications that are possible through an IEP. He did not receive his first IEP until he was in high school. And it was only so that he could have some extended time for certain things. That was it. Other than that, he never used any of these modifications because he did not have the kind of disability that needed it at that time. That didn't mean I wasn't willing to go there. It said at that time he didn't need it. And that's the idea here is that each of these students at this time are going to learn differently at this moment. That does not mean that next moment is going to change and that the next student will change. So that's why we really have to be open minded to different techniques, different elements, different methods. Who knows which one is going to work? Who knows which is the quote unquote right one? People have so many people, the doctors, the neurologist, everybody has asked me now with my son, what do you think did it? What made the difference? They can read the reports. They know what his prognosis was when he was in second grade. And it could not be further from where he is in actuality today at almost 22. And I can't answer the question because all of it is the answer. It was everything. It was one time when we made it kinesthetic. It was one time when we made him repeat. It was one time. I don't know. I don't know. You know, because you advocated for your son. And I think from what you have shared, both of you, he has learned to advocate for himself and to be a self-regulated learner under your auspices. You know, we kept saying we don't want to build a microcosm in which he can be successful. This is why we did not give him an IEP. And again, controversial at the time. We did not want to build a microcosm in which he could have wonderful successes. Instead, we said you have to live in this world with all of the rest of us. And instead, let's build a toolbox for you that you know what you can use, what your strengths are, the ways that you learn fast, and you need to use your own toolbox to carry around with you while you deal with the rest of this world. We're giving this toolbox to people who might be at a different stage with one of their students, either as an educator or a family. And a lot of people in the field, just special ed, myself included, we entered the field because of personal reasons and passions, and I hear that so much in both of you. And I think that you probably, and I know you both for less than a week, and I feel funny saying this, but I think you both really instilling passion in others. So your students, to get to know their passions, and family members. Look at this, you know, you have your daughter in here with her passion in teaching and history, and she's hopping into the science room, you know, for the porridge with the kids. So I'm going to ask both of you. She has no limits. She will ask our superintendent to wrap himself in toilet paper so that they can understand how mummies work. Oh, no limits. There is nothing that she won't do to make that connection for that kid, whoever that one is. I love it. I love it. And I know you're a superintendent because I work with him a dozen years ago in a different school district and he has the passion. So everywhere. Just this is such an upbeat conversation about inclusion. I thank you both. I think you're both going to have to come on as guests again. Carrie, do you have any closing remarks you want for our listeners? I just want to say thank you for having us. This was a lot of fun talking about it, and I would love to come back at any time. Love it. Love it. Casey, any closing remarks? The same. I came into this career not as a primary. I came into it in my 40s, and I can tell you that you're never too late to make a huge impact on the next generation. Try everything. You can't break them. All you can do is not be sufficient. And so if you give everything, you will make it. You will find it. You will make those connections. You'll get through those kids. That's what we're here for. Katherine and Carrie Bree, thank you so much for sharing your expertise with the KIC listeners. He can feel the stares and hear the words unspoken. Not so unaware of a world that thinks he's broken. And who never even knew a kid with a different point of view. No, they never really knew a kid with a different point of view. Copyright 2024. Karten's Inclusive Conversations. Thank you for listening. Check out other episodes on all major platforms.