KIC S3E6 "Teaching Together: The Power of Co-Teaching and Supportive Coaching" Featuring Donna Ross

Donna Ross and Toby discuss co-teaching strategies, professional development, and supportive coaching that encourages teachers to grow without judgment. They highlight the need for personalized approaches, focusing on student strengths rather than disabilities, and promoting a culture of collaboration among educators. Additionally, the conversation touches on the importance of resourcefulness and adaptation in teaching, particularly during times of change, and the ongoing effort to meet diverse learner needs through strategies like differentiation and Universal Design for Learning.

Understood – https://www.understood.org

Child Mind Institute – https://childmind.org

The IRIS Center – https://iris.peabody.vanderbilt.edu

#TobyKarten #DonnaRoss  #Karten’sInclusionConversations #KIC #Inclusion #CoTeaching #TeacherCollaboration #StrengthBasedLearning #ProfessionalDevelopment #DifferentiatedInstruction #UDL #SpecialEducation #TeacherSupport #StudentSuccess #EducationInnovation #InclusiveClassrooms.

For more information please visit https://inclusionworkshops.com/

Transcript

0:00

Hi, everybody. I have the pleasure of speaking today with Donna Ross, who is currently the supervisor of special services at Worries Public Schools in Camden County, New Jersey. And Donna Ross has had a diversified career. She started out as an aide. She was a substitute teacher. She worked for public and private schools from pre-K through 12. She also did a lot of work with early intervention and home services. And she's worked with students across the LRE continuum. As some of our listeners know, that means everything from resource room to in-class support to pull out, to push in, to lots of different services depending upon students' needs. So welcome, Donna Ross. And just to add a little bit about our connection that I've worked with Donna with Worries Township Public Schools for the past, Donna, correct me, has it been three years? Three years, yep. Three years. That is amazing time. And we did a lot of things in terms of inclusion, co-teaching, best practices. So welcome, Donna Ross, to our podcast. And I think your knowledge will be something that our listeners have much to gain. Thank you, Toby. Thank you for welcoming me here and having me a part of your show, your podcast. And I look forward to our conversation. Thank you. Thank you. So when we first met, we didn't kind of know each other. And I was on my role and responsibility was to be an inclusion coach for the staff. So maybe you could share a little bit about how we began that structure. Sure. So when we first met, Toby, I was not supervisor of special services. I was at the time a case manager. I was a learning consultant for a child study team. And my director, Melody Alegria, kind of brought you into the district. She had started her first year right away. She brought you into our district to provide some inclusion coaching. So my first time meeting you was through an online professional development opportunity. And, you know, all of that wonderful information you shared with us, it was just like all this information all at once. And I'm thinking, wow, this is amazing. I mean, the endless amounts of resources you gave us within that first meeting was incredible. And I know myself as a case manager immediately was able to look through that as I was being consulted by teachers, parents. I said, oh, wait, I think I have something on that. Go right to your folders that you shared with us. And I would find something, whether it was a modifications for a social studies test, a little quick review, a way to help a child take notes. So that was my first interaction with you. And then I had the pleasure of meeting you face to face later that year when Melody brought you in and kind of like showed you the school and introduced you to everyone face to face. So, and then after that, you and I developed this great friendship. And this year as my role as a supervisor, I really had the opportunity to work with you quarterly as you came on campus and provided in-person coaching with our teachers. You know, Donnie, from what you just said, you brought across a really important point and it's the organization we talk about students needing organization. But I think that we as teachers, as service providers, we set up models of that organization and that's kind of like the infancy of it. And, and also you mentioned the resources. We were all different. And I think that what you just said is, is a good point. I hope our listeners pick up on is that not everybody needs the same thing at the same time. And that's not exclusive to the kids, right? As professionals, I might know a lot about autism, or I might need to know more about ADHD because we're working in a classroom where students have such a mixture of skills and ability levels. And we, as teachers, we can't be experts in each field, but we need to know where to go. That could be people or organizations, maybe like Understood or Child Mind or different, the Iris Center with modules to learn more. There's so many good places that teachers could gain information, but they lead busy lives. And do you find that sometimes teachers just need a little bit of that coaching and saying, rah, rah, we're on your side and here's what you could use. I'm here to help you. Not that aha, gotcha. You did it wrong. That proactive approach. Absolutely. So you brought to mind something that you're always saying and something that we do as teachers. So when we're working as a teacher, we have so many diverse learners and we really make an effort to focus on that student strength, focus on the strength of the student. So here we are now as collaborators, colleagues, let's focus on each other's strengths and recognize the strength in my colleague and say, you know what? This is really your strength. This is my strength. Let's bring that together and bring that into each of our classrooms. And then here we have the perfect collaboration. So really one of the great takeaways I have from especially working as a supervisor for the first time, seeing the strength in the teachers, the strengths in my colleagues and saying, OK, let's capitalize on that. So you take that and run with it. You take that run with it. Let's bring it together in the end. I love that. And growing those strengths and acknowledging the strengths in each other. I might be a kindergarten teacher who loves singing. Right. And the kids love song. So I'm going to do that. But I might be a kindergarten teacher that loves reading aloud to the kids. So I'll do that part. And it's knowing each other and maybe that awareness that we're not all the same either as professionals. And we worked a lot with co-teachers and maximizing each other's strengths and highlighting each other's abilities. And some co-teaching pairs are very strong from the onset. And some co-teach pairs need that. We call that honeymoon period getting to know. What do you think about that one? Yes. So I agree, actually, as a co-teacher myself, I've experienced that work in a high school for a number of years. And there was one inclusion pair that we just hit it off. We became immediate friends. We were friends outside of school. We did things on the weekend. We said, OK, let's meet up on Saturday. And while we're doing this, we're going to plan this lesson together. You know, I was young. I didn't have kids. I wasn't married. And then there was other co-teaching pairs where here I was a young teacher and here's the teacher in a very different point of her life. So it wasn't quite that quick, immediate connection. And we really had to work on that. So it is something that you do need someone really that is on the outside saying, listen, you guys are doing great. You have got this. You know, this is how we can make this work. Here are some resources. And also not only giving you those resources and giving you that edge, that little push to say you can do it, but creating for you the time to actually be able to do that within the workspace where you're not having to say, OK, let's do this on the weekend. It's not feasible. Not everyone is that we all have lives. We all have things going on well beyond the confines of the school day. Not only do we need the encouragement and the push, but we need to really be given the time to collaborate and make it work. Totally agree with that. And time is such a commodity with so many things and expectations for teachers this day and age. And sometimes, like you said, it's seamless and sometimes we need to get to seamless with that and knowing that we're different people, we have different personalities, backgrounds. And I myself too have worked with co-teachers. I went to her wedding, you know, and she was 25 years younger than me, but we gelled. And then I've been with co-teachers that said, that's seamless. And D, it took more time and effort to do things and explanation and that outside person like I was a role as a coach. It's no judgment. It's it's you. We're going to grow our skills and, you know, and make those goals together and literally and figuratively. And you mentioned something and the time inside the school. And I loved our last session that we had in May because it was experiential. And we were talking about kids need to touch things and sensory. So you have to a listening audience is going to laugh when I share the manipulatives like Cheerios, M&Ms. OK, you'd school districts that don't allow sugar. All right. You could substitute carrots in and other healthy snacks, but it might be more fun. And we tried to do things and the teachers walked away and said, oh, I thought it would be this many in estimation. And it was almost like the insight. And sometimes we need to walk a mile in someone's shoes to understand what it feels like to learn again, not just to have PowerPoint, Google Slides and all that. We need to know those resources from digital platforms or handheld ones are real activities that propagate good research is like John Dewey, Jerome Bruno, all these good people that don't have to say that we're going to do it exactly and do a lot of jargon, but do the things that make sense. And you said something else that was really important to about that. Some teachers are not going to take a ton of things home. We have lives, teachers. I'll repeat this several times. Teachers are allowed to have lives. Teachers are allowed to have lives outside of school because it's healthy. So, Donna, let me ask you, when you close the door, what's your ray of sunshine? What do you do to take care of Donna? I've watched you. I think you need roller skates half the time to go scoot down the hallway. Yes. So what do I do to take care of myself beyond the school day? Yes. Yes. So you'll be good during the school day. Number one thing is spend time with my family, getting outdoors, enjoying my kids, enjoying my all my loved ones. That's really what brings me joy. So, and then when I'm in school, I'm very much present. I'm in school and I'm focused. And when I'm home, I'm very much present and I'm focused. I really learned over the years, I've been 30 years, I guess, in education nearly. And I've learned to do that. I've learned to create a very healthy boundary. So if it means I have to get in an hour early or just so I can get something done, I do that. So that way when I'm home, I'm home as much as I can be. That doesn't mean I don't take things home with me. I certainly do, but I definitely try to all the big things. I try to get them done in work. And that's an as need basis. I think that's being a professional too. But that's also that practice of mindfulness. I think sometimes that virtual calming room is healthy for the teachers and students and also families. And a lot of them, we collaborate. And that was a big theme this year about collaboration. Do you want to speak a little bit about that? How we handled that part of it? Yes. So I want to go back to something you had also mentioned where you said there's no judgment. When this idea of bringing an outside person in, like to come in and coach and observe our teachers and then meet with them afterwards and kind of collaborate. Initially, not everyone, but initially there could be hesitation. I don't want someone coming in, watching me, telling me what to do. We have enough going on, constantly new programs being sent. And then here we have a coach coming in. So there was that initial, but the way it was presented, the way you present things, Toby, and the way hopefully I encouraged that was just this really collaborative spirit. It was coming in. And the number one thing we do is listen, just listen. What are the needs? What do we have going on? Tell me what you're feeling. What do you like? What are you feeling isn't going well? Where do you want to grow with this? Where do you see your children going? Listening, getting all that information, sending out surveys, really starting from their perspective, taking that and then saying, okay, so now what do you need from me? Do you need me to help you collaborate? Do you need me to help you get your ideas out? Or do you need me to give you a resource? So we had to switch conversation to saying, all right, you tell me, we're not telling you. And then when we model that, then now the teachers start doing this together. And let me tell you, by the end of the year, when that last coaching session that came in, everyone was looking forward to it. There was no questioning, no like, oh, I can't do that. There was none of it. There were some things where there was an assembly and the one teacher said, Donna, I don't want to miss this. Can we switch my time? Not because they wanted to get out of the coaching. They just didn't want to miss your coaching session. And then when we're modeling at that, now the teachers are doing that. And now that's carrying over into the classroom. And now they're saying to their students, okay, what do you need from me? Where are we going with this? And then, so it kind of shifts that whole culture into collaboration. And then it's, that's like a really helpful collaborative tone in the class. And then the students start collaborating. You know, I'm going into the classrooms and I'm seeing immediate peer to peer collaboration, peer to peer support without them immediately going to the teachers. So it almost morphed into this something that I never imagined it could really be. I love it. Does that answer the question? Beyonds, yeah. Okay, wonderful. And you know, that's like a culture of collaboration, but that is a framework. And what you just expressed is something that we need to realize that it takes time. This evolves, but setting up the framework for it, it works, but it's not going to work if we want instant results. And especially if we pair two teachers that never knew each other, they might have different teaching styles and backgrounds, which is more often the case than not. And we need to have also with something else, what you said is respect, respect for each other, respect for admin and knowing that this is not another thing on the plate, but we're all on the same side. And Donna, let me ask you a question. How many times did you hear me use the word, the verb invite? I want to invite you to do this, right? We don't want to make teachers feel like that this program is being thrust upon them, although you did have a few reading programs that were new. And so new is always looked at, I think with eyes that say, huh, what's this? Let me see the data on this. And why should I do this when what I've been doing worked before, but is it working the way you want to? Is it reaching that kid? Could we reach more kids with that? What we were propagating UDL, universal design learning that with differentiation, a few of our sessions were onto and differentiation, isn't just a word. What does it look like differentiation when we're teaching about photosynthesis? What does it look like not only during the lesson, but maybe before and after practice review enrichment, all that nice stuff and dividing the roles. Who does what, when, where, why, how not everything is scripted, but I think you'll agree success breeds success. And that's what we felt during the year that we're working together. And that teachers finally said, oh, I get this a little bit, right? Right. Absolutely. We had, even when it came to making recommendations for next year, our inclusion programs just have increased. Their numbers are larger. And I really think it was largely because of the coaching. We have our upper administration's extremely supportive of these. I mean, really Dr. Alegria, our superintendent, all their principals, they really promote a collaborative spirit, which has helped our efforts for sure. But then the teachers really pick up on that, like, oh, if I'm going to have support now, if I try to expand our horizons, we try to create more inclusive opportunities, we will have support from administration. And that's really the key. I'm very grateful for everyone who's really helped us through this. And I agree with you, because you said something earlier, like you said, we look at them, what do you need? Tell us, what do you need? And we elicited that response in several ways, face to face, online. What topics do you want to learn more about? Oh, executive function? Let's do more than that. Because that was something that people picked more. And that's something that's called responsive education. And you also mentioned Dr. Alegria, and she was a catalyst in making all of this happen in such a positive direction. And you are too, Donna, that you at the helm, you set the stage for everything else that happens. There's a cast of characters with this. I never said that, with the teachers, the students, the subjects, schools closed, schools open. I think we met sometimes the tail end of COVID. I work with Dr. Alegria in another school district also, and it wasn't a pretty time when everything moved online. But we figured out a way to do what's next. And I'm not demeaning other professions, but I think teachers are excellent at being resourceful in that way. So what's next? What's on your agenda? Because I know that a lot of what I shared is going to be used with your district and giving other teachers that responsibility to be resources as well and sharing with others. You want to tell us a little bit about the plans maybe moving ahead for the 24-25 school year? Sure. Thank you so much for this opportunity. So at the end of the school year, we created ICS, we call it in-class support focus group. So I had a group of six teachers working with me kind of like surveying the other teachers saying, okay, how are we going to move through this? And what are we going to do moving forward? So we put out some surveys with professional development. They gave me ideas on how administration can really support our inclusive programs. And from there we are moving forward. So some of the professional development topics, we're going to try to have at least four professional development topics. They include executive functioning, using data like formative assessment data, diagnostic data to develop our small groups and design instruction, creating data meeting, differentiation, and then our last one we're really leaving open to see how the year is going. Then we'll send out another survey probably third marking period to say, okay, what do you need next? What kind of resources can we provide for you? So we started with that. That was our in-class support focus group. I'm also planning with them just being available. So we have five different buildings. So I'll be in every building at least once a week, just kind of planning myself there, walking around, being present, stopping in, checking, especially in the beginning of the year, making sure we're up and running. So just being very present. And then we're also starting a pilot this year for a win period. Win stands for what I need. So we're piloting that for a second grade across the district. And this is really with the help of our upper administration. We had to get approval from our board. We have an academic committee on the board of education who did approve this. Through our RTI committee, we really developed the plan for what I need period. So it's a 30 minute period every day that's going to focus on whatever the children need. So all second grade teachers will kind of come together. We're going to start with this screening, some diagnostic information. We'll create some data meetings. We'll devise groups. And we'll say, okay, we have a group of students who need fluency, a group of students who need comprehension, phonics. This group needs enrichment. And we have all the second grade teachers, our basic skills teachers, our reading specialists, and our enrichment teachers all working together to create their own groups. Every teacher will be assigned a different group. And for that 30 minutes, the students will rotate to whatever group they need. And that group will be run for a marking period. At the end of the marking period, we'll do benchmark testing. We'll do assessments. If it's a tier three intervention, we'll be doing assessments weekly, kind of monitor our students' progress. We'll reconvene as these data groups at the end of the marking period, see where the students are, and develop new groups or continue groups depending on what they need. Hopefully, we'll see a lot of improvement. But I also feel like this is an opportunity for us to say, you know, we can meet every student's needs within the general education setting. We can go beyond, we can think outside of the box. We can create these intervention groups that are seamless and running on a daily basis. Deb, it's a lot of talking. Sorry to have you open mic. No, no, it's a lot of good information, Donna, because a lot of people are listening, and they might feel overwhelmed by some constraints within their own environments, be it on campus, be it with local boards of ed. And you just spoke about so many good things, and I wrote some things down here like voice and choice, listening to what the students need, and how you're going to do it, the supports, the collaboration, the organization, and that team mentality that says we are going to do this together. We have a goal. It's goal-oriented, what you just said. So thank you for that. I think it's important that we realize that not one person has the answers, but together we create the situations that our learners are going to benefit from in a way that it's not going to overwhelm them. And I also like the fact that you're starting small with the pilot in the second grade. And second grade is a crucial grade as well in terms of having the literacy skills, the math skills, as we move on into the work becomes a little bit more complex, that they're not learning how to read and doing more and learning more about things, and the expectations in the upper elementary grades are higher, so preparing them for good things. So I just popped up the inclusion principles that you've seen many times. Any of these you want to speak to with our audience about valuable and applicable things to do in all classrooms on a daily basis, which I didn't mean all of these. They're 18 here, so just maybe pick a couple. You know, there's always, so a lot of these we focus on things that we all do as teachers, establishing prior knowledge, creating positives over negatives, that sort of thing. So what really stands out to me on your principles that you have shared with us is there are three of them that have always stood out to me. One is focusing on the student, not the syndrome. So a lot of times, and it's easy, it's so easy to get caught up on those symptoms we're seeing, the diagnosis, the, you know, whatever it's a disability, whatever you want to call it, but what we really need to focus on and concentrate on is the children. When we focus on them, then we start to see their strengths, which is another of your principles. So focusing on the children first, recognizing their strengths, and communicating and collaborating. If we work on those three things as our primary goals, then all the others just come naturally. We're focusing on the child, we're recognizing their strengths, we're communicating, and we're collaborating. So when we're communicating, we understand what prior knowledge they have. When we're collaborating, we recognize what kind of learner they are. And from there, all those other examples and principles will fall into place. Then we'll start to say, okay, we need to use concrete examples for this child. Or, oh, you know what, we need to kind of do a little more kinesthetic. We need to have some tactile information for this child. We need to create some auditory opportunities, some visual opportunities. I feel like that will fall in place if we do those three things. We concentrate on the child, not the syndrome, recognize the strengths, we communicate, and collaborate. Thank you, thank you. And that was so well stated, because a lot of times we assume we're doing that. But maybe there are some days, I know myself, I've taught lessons, and I say, oh, I should have added this, you know, why didn't I do that? And that goes with reflection. And I think that's what we do right now when we're talking to each other. And it was just such a pleasure reflecting on our wonderful time, that collaboration. And I so agree with you, we became more than colleagues, we became friends, because I admire you as a person inside school and outside school, professionally and personally. And Donna, do you have any closing statements you'd like to say to our podcast listeners? Well, I just want to start with a big thank you to you, Toby, thank you for having me here today. Thank you for becoming my friend and a trusted colleague. And thank you for all that you shared with us in the school. So we really, like I said, we started small, we started with online professional development, four times a year, once then it became once a month. But from there, we really developed this. And we grew this. And now we're taking it to that next level. And we wouldn't have been able to do that without you. Thank you so much for all that. I'm very grateful to Dr. Alagria for introducing us. My pleasure. And I think Donna, we call that collaboration at its finest. Yeah. Well, you have a rest of the good day. And and we'll chat soon. Thank you, Toby. Thank you for sharing your great knowledge with our listeners. Thank you for the opportunity. He can feel the stairs and hear the words unspoken. Not so unaware of a world that thinks he's broken. And who never even do kid with a different point of view. No, they never really knew the kid with the different point of view. Copyright 2024. Karten's Inclusive Conversations. Thank you for listening. Check out other episodes on all major platforms.