KIC S4E4 "Reach Before You Teach: Building Real Connections in the Classroom" Featuring Chrissie Williams

In this episode of Karten’s Inclusion Conversations, host Toby Karten sits down with sixth-grade math teacher, PTA president, and parent advocate Chrissy Williams from Fort Smith, Arkansas. Chrissy shares her inspiring journey into education later in life and discusses how authentic relationships, empathy, and real-world connections help students thrive in inclusive classrooms. Together, Toby and Chrissy explore the power of “reach before you teach,” practical ways to make math meaningful through real-world application, and why inclusive strategies benefit every learner in a diverse classroom. Chrissy also reflects on her experiences as the parent of a child with autism, offering powerful insights about patience, understanding neurodiversity, and encouraging open conversations about differences. The episode highlights how educators and families can work together to build compassionate learning environments where students not only grow academically, but also develop the life skills and confidence needed to succeed beyond the classroom.

Bastian Bunny (Book) by Chrissie Williams 

https://www.amazon.com/Bastian-Bunny-Chrissie-Williams/dp/1095078895

#TobyKarten  #Karten’sInclusionConversations #KIC #Inclusion #ChrissieWilliams #InclusiveEducation #ReachBeforeYouTeach #Neurodiversity #AutismAwareness #TeacherLife #RealWorldLearning #MiddleSchoolTeachers #SpecialEducation #TeacherPodcast #EducationMatters #InclusionMatters #TeachWithHeart #StudentRelationships #DifferentiatedInstruction #NeurodiversityAcceptance #EducationLeadership #TeacherVoices #LifeSkillsLearning #EmpathyInEducation

For more information please visit https://inclusionworkshops.com/ 

Transcript

0:00

Hi, everybody. Welcome to KIC Karten's Inclusion Conversations. And I have the honor of speaking with Chrissy Williams this morning. She is a sixth-grade teacher from Fort Smith, Arkansas. She's also a PTA president of her school. And she's also the mom of a child who has special needs and is fortunate enough to have Chrissy as his mom. And I was fortunate enough to meet Chrissy when I was in Fort Smith, Arkansas in July 2024. So welcome, Chrissy. Any introductory comments that you could tell us about yourself? Maybe what led you to be this teacher? Why did you choose education? Well, good morning. First of all, I'm so happy to be doing this. What led me to teaching is I was a manager at Walmart, and I realized that I love people, but I don't like big people. I like little people. So I went back to college later in life and decided to get my degree in education. And that's really what led me to teach sixth-grade math. And also, when you go later in life, your kids are able to see you shoot for your goals. And that was one big thing that I love that, because I have three kids, that my kids realize that no matter what age that you are, you can always go back to school and get your degree. So learning is lifelong, not just right outside of high school. Thank you for putting that out there, because there are so many people that maybe when they graduate from college, they're not sure of their career. And then later on, shifting gears, and I'm very happy that you landed in the field of education, because we recently met, but it's obvious that you have a passion for what you do. And coming into the classroom, a lot of our students with and without exceptional needs, need role models, just like you're a role model for your own three kids. And what would you say as an educator that you feel is very important from day one, like, you're getting ready for the new school year, which starts in two days, and here you are talking to me. Thank you. So what's important for teachers, maybe they're getting ready? I think that it's normal to feel nervous, no matter what part, I mean, if you've been teaching two years, if you've been teaching 30 years, I think that you always have that first day jitters coming back. I think the most important part is really lead with your heart. And because students can see through you. And really, whenever you come out, you know, you can be put off this certain type of person. But whenever you wear your heart, and you truly are who you are, which I always am, you know, I tell my kids, you see what you get, that it builds relationships really quickly. And that's the goal. Because if a student doesn't like you, they're not going to learn from you, no matter what kind of student it is. So whenever you are truly who you are, and you wear your heart out there, and students see that, and they know that you struggle, and that you go through the same things they do, then they're more likely to connect faster to you. And that really helps build the classroom community and your culture earlier on. So relationships is a really big deal. I love that. I love that. And the fact that we're human, Mrs. Carton is going to make a mistake. Whoops, but here's what we're going to do to make it better. That's part of what we teach with our hidden curriculum, maybe for some of our kids who have different situations at home sometimes. Well, and that inviting space and, and you teach a tough subject, you teach six staff. So that's complicated for a lot of your kids, right? What do you do to help them understand it? We did a whole thing about inclusion strategies and interventions, right? Which of those might hold true for some of your kiddos? So I think what's important is that what you do with inclusion, you can do with all students. It benefits everybody, honestly. It's not a one shoe fits all kind of deal. Every student learns differently. And math, especially sixth grade math, is about application. And anytime I have a student, if I'll say, do you enjoy math? And usually their answer's no. But I go, okay, well, where do we see math in your real life? Because sixth grade math is really like, if you were to walk away and not finish school, but if you've had sixth grade math, you'll be able to do a lot of real world math. And it's money, it's, it's fractions, it's cooking, it's all of that. So I try to tell my students, you know, well, do you like spending money? And, you know, usually I'm just, yeah. I go, okay, well, that's the math you're going to be doing. And I think really making it to where they can relate to it helps a lot more. And if they're not understanding a certain concept, then always listening to the student and seeing how they, they might see it differently than you do. And a lot of times our aha moments happen when students are talking about it and really just, there's no end goal. It's just, hopefully they, they understand this concept, but if they see it a different way than I do, sometimes that happens. I'm like, oh, wow, I didn't even know that that's how you saw it. And it helps other students because they might be thinking it, but I don't say it. Peer to peer when they learn from their peers is really where a lot more happens. And that's the stuff that I'm trying to really build in my classroom is where there's more peer conversations about real world math and application than maybe in a textbook. Love that because, you know, especially that adolescent tween population, they're more interested in what their peers are saying than what you, and they might say the same things you are, but the attention is greater to each other, that cooperative learning. And you mentioned so many good things here. I just want to piggyback to that. And during our workshop time together, I kept saying reach before you teach. And it was so obvious from so many of the people that I met in Fort Smith that that that's your philosophy. And that needs to be a lot of ways contagious throughout. And the other part of reaching before you teach is what you said, perspectives, hearing how someone else is thinking, because like math and social studies and science, even so many topics are so abstract for a lot of our learners, right? Whether or not they have IEPs, you know, I think in our workshop, we wrote haikus, right? About inclusion, right? But before we did that, we had to have a step by step way of discrete task analysis, what's involved in this, and like something like math being abstract and asking your kids what you just said, some simple words, what were you thinking, and then acknowledging that there are different ways to solve that same math problem. And that's okay. And you said something and you keep repeating these words, it's like hyphenated, whatever real world, real world. Yes. Could you tell us a little bit more about application in real world, either in your math classroom, or maybe a family or any other type of school situation of real world? So real world application really is bringing what students might see in their daily lives to the classroom. I really always try to lead with a, let's get to thinking about where you might see this before we even start it. I like to talk about, oh, well, where might you see decimals changing? Where might you see a decline in numbers in a natural environment? Where are we subtracting numbers naturally in a, in a different type of environment? And usually it's the grocery store because sixth graders don't go out. Well, I, I don't know. My sixth graders travel the world. So I'm sure that they're going and seeing different, like the points of views of different cultures, because I have a very high diverse population of students. So they get to travel more than Mrs. Williams does. And I always tell them, give me a souvenir. They do too. It's so sweet. They might need a chaperone, you know? Exactly. So that's real world application is really bringing in outside sources to kind of bring our classroom together because we're all from different parts of the world or different paths. We've all grown up differently. So it's just where might you see these common places that we're all seeing math and then applying it in that sense. It always helps brings context. So that way, when students are trying to think of new abstract ideas, it helps ground them to where they're not feeling so lost in the very beginning. Because usually a sixth grader, when you give them something new, their immediate reaction is, I can't do this. I don't want to do this. Chrissy, sometimes that happens in professional development when it's something new or, you know, I think we did that syndrome. That's the way we always did it. Right. Something different. Right. So whenever you bring in something that feels familiar, you're more likely to try it than be distant from it. So that's kind of where I try to help students feel like they do know this. You do know this. They've seen it like this, but this might be another way of seeing it. Thank you. Because you're opening their eyes to other perspectives, other contexts, latching it on to, we called it living the math because decimals, they could be the weather, they could be in a baseball field. My favorite way that I ever taught algebra was gaining and losing yards on the football field because maybe they dislike math. And I don't know why, but some parents, when I meet them, they say, I hated math. And why is it okay to do that? Because it's all around us and it helps everything we do to see numbers and in a certain light. And you're kind of what you're describing, making it fun, making it real, making it come alive for them. So they're realizing it's not just about the test. It's about living what we're learning in school. And thank you for doing that. And you mentioned several other things here. And I'd be amiss if I didn't talk about you, not only as a teacher, but you wear a couple of chapeaus there. You have a few different things you're doing. You're also PTA president of Kimmons Middle School. And you're also the proud parent of three children. And one of your children also has a difference labeled as ASD, autism spectrum disorder. And you've spin that as well and shared several things. So Chrissy, would you mind talking about maybe your role as a family member or helping other family members? What's important for us to know, not only as educators, but as human beings? Oh, for sure. So I have three children. My oldest is 12. My middle child is my autistic child. He's my only son. He's nine. And then I have a seven-year-old daughter. And my daughters are my son's bodyguards. They are attached. And they are, it's so cute. My house is run by my daughters. And my son listens. He knows who's in charge. It's so sweet. I think living with ASD is, it's very rewarding. It is, it's always stressful. It is. And I'm not going to wait. I have to stop you. Do you remember what I said? The word stressed is backwards. Oh, dessert. Okay. Now go ahead. It can be, but there's so much goodness that comes from having a child that has ASD and the patients that I have learned. I mean, I was born with patients. That's one of my gifts for sure. But I think that having a child with ASD has really pushed me to be more of a patient person and more understanding because that doesn't look like anything on the outside. So ASD is all on the inside. And whenever you're dealing with someone who has autism, it just, I don't know. He's, he's really has affected my livelihood and I know it's for the better. I mean, it's hard not to get emotional talking about my child, but you know, I've really learned a lot. Being in public, whenever I see people or kids that have maybe outbursts, my immediate thought isn't, oh, that parent, my immediate thought is you don't know, you know, you really don't know. And I think that ultimately the goal is to get my son to be as independent as possible because I don't know what his future looks like, but I know that as his mother and as the mother of my other children, that I push him the same way as I do my other children. I have the same high expectations. It's so easy to give him a tablet and to let him do what he's going to do and to can't, you know, just zone out and be in his own little world. But really, I think that being a parent is in all aspects, you have to push your children no matter what, no matter what their, their label is, you know, Sebastian is, oh man, he's come a long way. He's been in therapy since he was three. So you say therapy, what type of therapy? He gets occupational, physical, and he did get speech for a while, but it's not so much speech anymore because he uses a talking device and he understands how to use that really well. And now he's doing amazing things. He's only nine, but he's spelling words. He's reading everything and it's, and it looks different. He may not write, but he understands words and it's so awesome. You know, what you were saying is so true because perspective and you have such a passion for your profession, I noticed, and for your son and your other children, of course, but you want others to understand this perspective. So I just read a brief synopsis and a sample page of it, but you've published a book, Bastion the Bunny, and this character, will you tell us more about the purpose of this protagonist? What the lesson you would like? Our young learners, which are so impressionable, such ages to give these messages. Tell us about this book a little bit. Bastion Bunny came from, I was sitting in his therapy one day and I realized that not everybody gets to experience this. It's not something that most people will ever just get to sit and listen to therapists, talk to their patients. And I wrote it in a matter of a couple of minutes and it took a couple of years to really bring it to fruition because I really wanted it to be something that was a message to kids, not just kids though, adults on what ASD can look like in a normal situation. And it just really highlights a lot of what Sebastian is, but in a simple way, because I've read a couple of books on autism that were meant for kids books and they were very lengthy and it almost was too much in one book. So when I wrote this, I made it bright. I made it colorful. I made it to where, yes, it rhymes, but there's a message in there in that we all love this. The love is still there. It just looks differently. And usually adults don't want to ask the questions because they think that it embarrasses parents who have autism, kids that have autism. And really we don't. I would rather a adult or a child ask me a question so I can teach on it opposed to just staying silent because kids are more likely to ask than adults are. But sometimes adults, I think, think it's not okay, but it is. I mean, I will, I want to educate as much as possible. Those sixth graders entering my room that have never met anybody with autism will leave my room knowing about autism. It just naturally happens because that's who I am. So that's what Bastian Bunny is about. And it's, yes, my son's in it and it's, you know, written kind of around him, but I did include other things that he may not do that other autistic kids might. I love using bibliotherapy with pluralistic themes to get everyone to understand more. And I'm going to include the link to Bastian the Bunny because it's just such a wonderful way to say it's okay to be different. And here's what it's about. And it's okay if somebody uses a device instead of their lips to talk to you. And it's okay if someone's reading your lips. There are different ways. And I think sometimes when we try to do things with our students and with parents, it's understanding difference. And difference is something that if you don't experience it, like you said, your sixth graders who might not have heard of it, or maybe heard something that wasn't accurate. Because unfortunately, sometimes so much information is out there, whether it's online or published or wherever, and it's falsehoods. And we need to spread information that's accurate to help students with differences, and their families, and the families of students who don't have differences, who may be in the class sitting next to their child, or need that birthday invite, and to understand things from different perspectives. So when you talk about autism, and you talk about what kids maybe need to know, or what parents of other kids who don't have autism should tell their kids, what would you say maybe one, two, three things that are important for people to understand about autism to move forward? I think that one thing I always push is that difference is okay, that you know, we all come from different parts. And even I'm different. I'm not neurotypical in certain aspects, you know, we're not all the same. Hello, you're speaking to someone who gets that. Yes, right. So knowing that we all think and learn and move differently is just part of life. So different just looks different. But that's okay. That's what makes us all unique and who we are, who we're built to be. So knowing that, and I think that being okay with, it's okay to ask questions when you don't know. And that's, I really try to build that in my classroom, because I'd rather us talk about it than not. And that, you know, that always sparks different kind of conversations. And I'm all for conversation, really, no matter what it is. I think they know that. And they kind of capitalize on that and get me distracted sometimes. I want to be a fly in your room during some of these math conversations, right? Yeah, definitely. I love it. But just understanding and patience, and that we all are different, and it's okay. It's okay. And a lot of times that exposure to something that they might have built misconceptions over, so they have an inaccurate foundational knowledge. And that's one of my inclusion principles is establish prior knowledge. So we could take that first inclusion principle, establish prior knowledge, and talk about, do you understand the math principles? Do you understand about getting along with your peers, even though your peers may be different? And in our context and what you teach, and I love what you said earlier about inclusion as well, because it's just about helping everyone within that same classroom, but maybe not the same way. So what you mentioned before is all about about the steps and being proactive. And we spoke about that with the differentiation. What is your average math class size in a middle school these days? Oh, that's a hard one. I'm sorry, but we need reality check for our listeners. 20 to 25 students. Exactly. So how many different math levels do you think are within those 20 to 25 math students? Oh, it's all over the place. There's no, there's no, there's no left. Oh, it's not uniform? It's a spectrum. And that's what's amazing, because ASD is a spectrum. They're a spectrum of learners, no matter what, where they come from. It's just a spectrum. Exactly. Exactly, Chrissy. And that spectrum exists, whether it's one of the 13 classifications under IDEA or it's not. And I think that what you said, disability awareness happens when we highlight the ability. We spoke a little bit about that, but I just wanted to maybe talk a little bit about how we could use the ability and the strength paradigm to capitalize on maybe that prior knowledge that some kids are missing, be it how to communicate with others or whether they have automaticity with their mathematical skip counting or whatever, because these are all prerequisite skills that kind of snowball in the grades, whether it's social or academic, emotional. Some kids that we work with don't have those same skills, but you're talking about kids that are included in 25 kids in one math classroom coming in on Wednesday. Give us an intro, make us one of those 25 kids. What's the first thing you're going to say to us to make us feel included? Oh, that's a tough question. And you know, I, sometimes I fly by the seat of my pants. I love that, but that's why we're having this conversation and obviously it's working for you. I don't like to bore kids because I know their intention spans about how old they are. And a lot of people don't realize that, that, you know, a 12 year old, 11 year old coming into my classroom, their attention spans about maybe less than 11 minutes. So usually I will always introduce myself, you know, give just like a short, this is who I am. I'm a family person. I love video games. I try to find where they tell them you like video games. I love it. I'm a big gamer. And that always connects some of the kids who are like, Oh, she's a gamer. And I go, okay. Yeah. And then that'd be pretty cool. And then I always start with a very high rigorous activity that gets their brain thinking that's not about math. And it's usually, can you fit yourself into a piece of paper? You're given a pair of scissors and then they have to figure out how to cut this paper to fit multiple kids into it. And it's always really fun to see their brains moving in a non mathematical way, just to get them thinking and talking to each other. Cause middle school, they come from, you know, eight, nine different elementaries and they're shoved into two to three middle schools. So they may not know all of these kids and to build just the classroom environment straight out the gate is always fun to see. Oh, I love that inquiry. So you mean that students with exceptionalities are capable of inquiry? Oh, 100% they are. Okay. I think that's a nice note to end and begin your year on as well. Chrissy, do you have anything else you'd like to say to our listening audience? Any closing statements at all? I think that it's important to have conversations with your kids, talk to your children, no matter. I think a lot of people think that it's happening in other places, but it's really not. I get a lot of children who people do not talk to their kids. And usually I'm one of the first adults that they've had a real full conversation with and kids are lacking that. You know, Chrissy, if you go back to what you had said earlier, before we were recording as the PTA president, maybe that's a nice idea. You want to tell everyone about that. The reason that you have these meetings and activities that you organize, help organize. Yeah. So we, once a month, we build a safe space for our kids to come to and sit. And it's usually after school, right after school. And they spend about an hour and a half where we play games, where we have snacks. It's just a safe space for these kids to be themselves. And it's slowly up and running because middle school PTA is not a lot of people. It's me and two other moms. And it's always about giving back to the kids and, and giving them a safe space and having conversations with kids. And that's really kind of, that's our route. That's why we do this job. It's not about teaching them math. It's about life and that's, I'm a mom. So I have a lot of tough conversations with these kids and gosh, they just lack that so much. And I just hope that when they walk through my doors after they've left me, that they leave with maybe not math, but maybe life. And that's my real ultimate goal. Chrissy Williams, thank you so much for sharing your insights, your passion. And we are lucky in the field of education that you have chosen this as your profession. We'll talk soon again. And will you come back? That's my last question. Excellent. Excellent. Everybody have a great day. You too. Thank you. He can feel the stares and hear the words unspoken. Not so unaware of a world that thinks he's broken. And who never even knew. A kid with a different point of view. No, they never really knew. A kid with a different point of view. Copyright 2025. Karten's Inclusion Conversations. Thank you for listening. Check out other episodes on all major platforms.