Escape the Chaos: Nicole Torres's Top Strategies for Surviving in Tech

Nicole Torres, a transformational self-worth coach and former visual effects artist, shares her journey from the animation industry to her current work. She discusses the challenges she faced as a woman of color in a predominantly male and white industry and the lack of inclusivity and respect she experienced. Nicole emphasizes the importance of soft skills, or life skills, in the workplace and how they contribute to success and healthy relationships. She also highlights the need for emotional intelligence, communication skills, and conflict resolution in the tech industry. Nicole shares her personal development and healing journey and how it led her to help Latinas and women of color understand their bodies and regulate their nervous systems for a happier and more fulfilling life.

SHOW NOTES:

Company
Ouroboros Healing https://www.ouroboroshealing.com/
Linkedin - linkedin.com/in/nicole-torres-050b0212
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/ouroboros.healing/
Books
The Empath's Survival Guide: Life Strategies for Sensitive People - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06XWJS4VN/ref=tsm_1_fb_lk

Chapters

• 0:00 IC Mission
• 1:02 Introduction
• 2:59 Nicole's Background
• 11:17 Life Skills vs Hard Skills
• 13:57 Why did you Pick Animation as a Career?
• 16:57 How did you overcome Challenges in the workplace?
• 20:25 Any Mentors during this Period?
• 21:31 Entrepreneurship Start
• 26:08 Ouroboros Healing
• 31:36 Discussing Somatic Trauma
• 36:34 Imposter Syndrome vs Imposter Phenomenon
• 40:32 Helpful Tips to Cope with Stressfull Environments
• 42:50 Closing

Transcript

IC Mission: Welcome to inclusive cyber your front row seat to understand how a diverse mix of voices is not just necessary, but essential to protect our most sensitive computer networks and personal data. I'm your host, Danny magallanes, and through my podcast, we shine the spotlight on the heroes and trailblazers from every corner of society who are redefining the diversity, equity, and inclusion frontier. Every episode is a step towards a cyber community that's as varied as it is united, where everyone has the keys to unlock their potential. And the power to protect our digital world. Join us on this journey where every listen, every share, every dialogue inches us closer to this new reality. 

Danny: Nicole, welcome to inclusive cyber. Super excited to have you on the show. I know, um, we officially, well, virtually met through LinkedIn. I was talking about how Chicago, um, cybersecurity events are so awesome. And then I put some sarcastic comment, you replied, and I think that's how we reached out to one another, but awesome to have you on the show.

Nicole: Thank you so much. It's. It's an honor to be here. I'm glad to be included with all of the awesome guests you've had so far. I was going to say host, but you're the host. 

Danny: One thing that, I really love doing, uh, as of late is just talking to a lot of people. And it's funny. I am an introvert. My old boss, who's a, you know, kind of freak out. He's like, boy, you're an introvert. I really am. But you put me in a room with cybersecurity professionals and you can't get me to shut up. But you get me in a room with legal or, some other profession. I'm keeping to myself and just drinking water in the corner there. One thing I really liked about your background is in cybersecurity and IT, we have a lot of challenges and if we stick to our own.

To try to solve that we might get there, but more often than not, we won't. So I like expanding my network and it doesn't. Mean only, uh, meeting new people, but also reading, reading different, uh, genres, different themes, just new ideas to look at, to see how we can bring and solve our biggest challenges in it. But with that being said, I know I've been talking a lot here. Can you provide a quick background of how you got started initially in IT and all the great work that you did? 

Nicole: My name is Nicole Torres. I'm a transformational self worth coach. I'm a somatic healer and a retreat host. So this is like a long shot away from my old life. I was actually, In tech as, um, a visual effects artist. That's how I started. And then I slowly started making my way through different studios, running the gamut of like the multi billion dollar media streaming companies. It was about a 13 year career. And I ended at Netflix in 20, 20 shoot. It's like COVID, COVID era.

So it was like a blur. Um, 2021 in February is when I left Netflix and I was a production supervisor for the design team. So I managed the designers coordinated all of the design assignments, worked with the front end and back end and helped, um, with some pipeline development while I was, when I first got to Netflix.

So that's sort of the extent of my past life career. Working at a lot of different studios and with a lot of different people, I experienced a lot, obviously, and being Latina and mujer, um, I experienced even more. So I have a lot of, um, stories and experiences and a lot of them, unfortunately, were not that great, even from the beginning, from when I started.

So it just always felt like an uphill battle and like I didn't really belong or there wasn't really like a space for me. That was you know 2008 is when I kind of jumped into that world. So this was before me too. This was before DEI. This was like the 2000s, you know, and it was It was not a fun place to, not a fun time or inclusive time to be a female.

And usually I was the only one in my cohort, like on my team, there was a lot of that and it just got to a point where I just didn't want to do that anymore. And I wasn't living my life. Passion or finding my joy. I was very like disillusioned and disappointed. So that kind of led to a huge, um, I guess just like everybody, you know, like when you're not happy, things just sort of start to spiral and everything gets affected.

You're relationships and your self esteem, all of that stuff. I'm not blaming the industry by any means. I'm just painting a picture of what it was like back then. Like I would have probably thrived and done a lot better had there been more inclusivity, more women who look like me and leadership roles, more of my peers being supportive versus like questioning me, like having, I felt like I had to prove myself a lot.

Moments where I would say one thing and then it was like overlooked. And then like a dude would say the same, like, literally it happened all the time. And it would like, my head wanted to explode, but it was like, they would say the exact same thing. And they're like, Oh yeah, that's a really great idea.

And I'd be like, like, I just said that, but okay. So, you know, a lot of that, like, just not like, I felt kind of invisible at times and nobody wants to, nobody feels good or wants to like show up at a place where they, you feel invisible a lot of the time. I started on my own, like personal development, personal healing journey in 2017, 2018 is when I officially started working with my coach and healer.

And I did that for about three years. And I had already kind of been curious about like, you know, energy and energy work. And I'm into astrology and astronomy and the cosmos and anything esoteric, anything that's trying to like understand like these really big questions about our human existence and human development.

I'm really into human psychology and behavior. And so my two worlds sort of collided, those two passions of understanding human behavior. And this other worldly, like this energy body that we have and, um, how that all sort of ties in to work because of my healing journey, a lot of my trauma was from my work experience.

So for me, it was like going back to work. Cause I worked in project basis. So there came a point where I would start applying and. I would just feel that dread of like, okay, here we go again, like just mentally and emotionally preparing myself. And now with all of the education and knowledge I have about our nervous system, which is another thing that I integrate into all of my healing.

It's not just like emotional healing. It's like, Regulating our nervous system. I teach my clients how to understand, like, what is parasympathetic, what is sympathetic nervous system and how that is an absolute non negotiable when it comes to our healing and just like being a human, because a lot of us feel like, and I'm going to speak for the ladies out there, but like a lot of us get called like irrational and emotional and crazy if we're, you know, elevated.

But a lot of times. Just like everyone else, it's our nervous system. That's dysregulated and yes, females are female identifying folks. Like, however, you land on that spectrum. If you are an emotional person and you're more in your feminine, then you're going to react emotionally. If you're more on the masculine scale, then you're going to bottle up your emotions and.

Eventually you're going to explode. You're going to implode usually. So we all have these different ways of, I would say like embodying our energy. And when I say feminine and masculine, it's not by gender. It's really just a, it's a representation of feminine energy being open and creative and flow and masculine energy being direct action oriented, fast, logical.

So we all embody these characteristics. And so when I work with my clients, this is like a big part of that. Now that's my main focus is to help, um, Latinas and women of color. Especially first gen daughters to understand their body at a nervous system level to have the skills that are literally life skills, like, you know, a lot of us were not gifted with that.

As a natural skill, like we all had to learn that how to regulate our emotions, how to communicate, how to fight correctly, conflict and contrasts are just always going to exist. So if we want to have healthy, happy lives and relationships and work experiences, we really have to learn how to fight better conflict resolution.

We're going to be in conflict. We have to communicate better. So these are life skills that a lot of us picked up, you know, like by watching our parents or our grandparents or cousins and uncles, like our inner circle, like, what was it like when there was a discussion that was like heated or there was disagreement?

What did that look like? Did you, or people in your family, like, Bottle it up. And we didn't talk about it. Everybody to their rooms. And then it was like that thick silence that was just like cut the tension, right? Or was it just chaos? And everybody was just like screaming back and forth. We all have this sort of program sense of what normal is.

And that's how we move about our world. I'm no stranger to that. So I was noticing how I was responding in certain situations and it just wasn't working. That's the, the whole gamut of like, Where I was and where I'm at now and who I'm helping. Yeah. 

Danny: So a couple of things, well, actually a lot of things there to unpack, but the first one is just what you just mentioned, talking about life skills and in technology, we, as an industry and in cybersecurity in general, we always talk about hard skills, like learning how to program, learning how to deploy, uh, certain security tools.

But the soft skills. Are the ones that are going to achieve greatness in whatever we do. We mentioned those as soft skills, but I really love the way you've reframed that because I'm trying to change the vernacular to soft to life skills. Because if you don't have those life skills. You're not going to be able to function, right?

Nicole: Correct. And just to like piggyback on that, when it relates to our work environment, if you don't have these soft skills, aka life skills, the symptoms of that are high turnover at work, either you or other people, right? Because it's like, Oh, Don't get along with them or they're weird. They don't talk well to people.

They disrespect or minimize things. I had a, an ex who would say, it's not what you say, it's how you say it. And the other thing is that if you're in a position, that's the same position for a really long time, and you're not being moved up to manager level. That's why, because you don't have leadership skills.

And when we say leadership skills, it's really people. Managing skills because you got to manage the folks who are doing the things right and if you don't have those You know that emotional intelligence. Let's just call it what it is and communication skills They're not gonna Level you up and that's why When I see a lot of the younger generation moving into these predominantly male, predominantly white spaces, there's a lot there for them to unpack about themselves and their role and their place.

And having those skills are just like going to make or break. And this is why statistically speaking, like so many people of color and BIPOC folks leave This industry leave tech leave media and I'm sure now we have AI is like AI a new industry. Is it tech? Is it the same? Like, you know, there's going to be a million of those jobs coming and we're going to enter the workforce and we're it's going to be the same thing. We still need those skills. We still need to feel that confidence and ability to communicate and take action and be those leaders. 

Danny: Everything that you're saying, Nicole, I definitely agree with you. But I like to go back to, you know, how you started. What got you into animation? Because I think it's pretty cool. I just recently read a book, uh, Creativity Inc. on Pixar. I'm a big Disney, Pixar fan. So, what was it growing up that said, Oh, I'm gonna Get into that. Or was it just a serendipitous event when you knew somebody and you got that role? It's just kind of curious. No, 

Nicole: no, it was not serendipitous. I mean, eventually it became it, but my mom was a single parent. So I was alone in the summers while she was working and Nickelodeon was like, basically my babysitter. Um, and so I loved cartoons. I love just. I was an only child also, so I loved getting lost in these stories. Um, I loved to draw. I was always an artist from the beginning, like preschool. I was the one always like painting and just covered in paint.

And so that really was just like something that I really enjoyed. So I thought it would translate over. I was working in advertising before this, though, in communications. And that's where I got my degree. So I was PR and advertising. And then when I moved back, I wanted to work in commercials and do like creative directing and like storyboarding and really just be the idea behind the commercial, because I loved commercials. I was like that weirdo. And I still am at Superbowl. I'm like, stop, stop, everybody be quiet. So that's kind of how I got into it or the reason I was led there. 

Danny: Yeah, no, that's awesome. And, uh, and I know you talked about one of the, I guess, main reasons why you left that industry because you weren't being respected. You weren't being valued. And I know that's definitely hard. I'm sorry that you had to go through that. But I know it's something that it doesn't only happen in the animation or Hollywood studios. It's in pretty much in every profession, unfortunately. And I also like that you mentioned, it's not about playing the victim card or blaming X, Y, and Z for that.

You're stating fact based on your own experience. And hopefully we as people. Learn from that and say, Hey, that's not how you treat people. We just need to be at the end of the day, it's just being kind, especially here in the U S that we can't talk to one another, we start talking about religion or politics, forget about it, that thickness that you described earlier, that.

Nobody's willing to have those conversations. I know we're shifting a little bit on the topics here. Some of the challenges that you experienced, how did you overcome them? How did you put your shields up to prevent them from doing more harm? 

Nicole: Well, we have to remember that I left the industry because I was like, Basically done. So the point being that I didn't really have good coping skills then. I learned that after what I did and what a lot of people do, I think, which is why I'm open to sharing is a lot of the bad coping, I wasn't taking care of myself. I was like trying to earn their respect through my work. And that is how all the burnout stuff started to happen eventually.

So my belief system was if I work harder, If I do better, I'll be treated better, I'll get more money, I'll be promoted, or whatever it is. And it just like, didn't really happen. As far as on the job, I would, I was like trying to match the energy. And I think this is just a normal thing that we humans do.

Our nervous system is picking up for sensory information that says this is safe or this is not safe. And so we become defensive if we feel like we're under attack or we're not being treated well, that's the normal reaction, right? We kind of put our guard up. And so I felt like I was matching their energy just like trying to fit in and be one of the guys and like my energy started shifting to be really masculine as well and suppressing a lot of my needs and my voice, um, and that just became part of my personality. If you've heard the statement, like if you do a habit long enough.

It becomes a pattern and then that becomes a behavior and then that becomes your personality. That's basically how it was for me. But now, if you're in those situations and things are not going well, the best thing to do is to really just take some time to sit with what is actually happening. Like, what are the facts?

What is being said versus what is being felt, what is being done physically or actually versus what is, what's being interpreted. And that's the thing is our brain is trying to convince us of certain belief systems that we hold true. Like they don't like me. They're this, they're that. So we have to get really honest about what is actually happening and then find people who are safe.

Whether it's a friend or a family member or even a co worker. We have co workers that are like our best friends sometimes. So, if there are people who are safe, talk about it and share what's happening in a very private setting and get somebody else's opinion, like, am I in the wrong here?

Like, what do you think? And just, it's nice to have a second pair of eyes and ears. Sometimes work on doing things that are going to limit your stress and lower your stress rate responses. Doing breath work is great. It's super easy and it's free. Doing breath work is definitely a game changer. You like moving your body, some people are like, they need to get the energy out.

Going to the gym and doing like hard lifting or doing, um, power yoga. Or if you're like really elevated doing stretching in the morning. Having a morning routine is really important, but we're all so tired and like, it's hard to put those into place, but you can just start with like one thing, one thing and things will slowly start to shift. So that's how I would manage it in the very beginning. 

Danny: Appreciate that response. And I know we'll definitely get into that self care a little bit more on the second half, but then one last question, is it safe to assume that you didn't have any mentors 

Nicole: Yeah, I would say that would be accurate. I had friends, colleagues, you know, that I could talk to, but there was nobody mentoring me to say like, Oh, look, this is how you do this. And that was kind of lone wolfing it. 

Danny: Right. Um, do you know of anybody else had mentors? Because I'm just kind of curious that this is a pervasive thing in the studios here that it's almost every person for themselves. 

Nicole: Kind of, I think within the artist communities, there were more of that sort of relationship of the mentors because they were, you know, getting direct feedback from people, but I don't remember having conversations of, I think it was actually one person. There was one person that I knew, and it was a female, also Latina. And she had a mentor and she mentioned it, but that 

Danny: was it. Let's talk about your transition into entrepreneurship and the transformational self coach. Why did you get into that versus something else? 

Nicole: I think it was just part of my personality, like, really enjoying helping people. My girlfriends would come to me and ask me about boys and advice and dating and all of that stuff. A long story short, I had a lot of my own sort of relational trauma that I was working on and working to heal. When I discovered These new tools and this new way of being in this new way of experiencing life.

I was like, oh, okay Everybody needs to know about this because life that way is trash and being Frustrated or upset or angry or not enjoying waking up in the morning. That's like the simplest way I can put it I'm not the type of coach that's like I'm gonna 10x your life and you're gonna 10x your Your income and all this other stuff.

I'm like, I'm going to help you love your life and feel good when you wake up in the morning, because that's one of the biggest things is like, I'm just not happy or don't think it should be this hard. Those are the kinds of things that I get from my clients when they first start working with me. When I started this healing journey, it's morphed into wanting to help more people, especially women of color, because I feel like we're sort of starting at a disadvantage in that space since.

Especially with first gen daughters. My practice has evolved from healing from trauma in relationships to now supporting women and women of color in the tech and media space, because so much of what I went through, I've seen it in certain clients and it's a little different. I think it's the pressure and the environment that we're in as women of color.

It's like a whole other layer of needing to show up. With a lot more to prove, a lot more obstacles to sort of face, and it's really about nervous system regulation, helping them understand their emotions, helping them communicate their needs. Boundaries are a huge thing because when we grow up, a lot of times we don't know what boundaries are, especially if you're in a Latino community, like those don't exist.

We have to learn these new things and how to communicate them. And when we've been saying yes, if we're people pleasers and we like, don't want to make people mad. And don't want people to, we don't want to get in trouble or all of these thoughts and things that influence our decisions and how we communicate.

Saying no for some people is nearly impossible. Just saying that it's really difficult. So like, how are you going to be in, A leadership role when you can't say no when you can't be okay with people being mad at you Or not liking you for a decision, you know, it's like all of this stuff translates. So my goal is obviously Um to help folks like this, but really it comes down to access And financial abundance, all of that comes later. And that's what I really want is like, I want our communities to, to thrive. And it really, we have to work and make money to thrive. Right. So being good as a human being and being a strong leader. Is what is going to change that 

Danny: the main reason, or one of the main reasons I wanted you on the show, because in IT and in cybersecurity, there is a lot of burnout. There is a lot of just go, go, go, go. We're putting so many fires out that we don't have time to breathe. We're going to so many meetings. During my work, it's meeting after meeting after meeting and after eight hours of meetings, you know, typically log off and never look at the computer screen until the next day, but it's like, oh, wow, no more meetings.

Now I can get to work, which is not sustainable. Some people can do it, but the majority it's like, no, we need that break. Another colleague also talked about taking care of ourselves. So, but I think with your practice, Now we're able to get kind of pinpoint, uh, tips, if you will. So, Nicole, what is the name of your practice and what are some of the products and services that you provide?

Nicole: My practice is called Ouroboros Healing, and I call it the Ouroboros Healing Circle because the Ouroboros is an old symbol of a snake eating its own tail. The services that I offer are one on one coaching, and I also have a group program. It's called Reclaiming Your Peace. And I open doors for that every couple of months.

It's a lot of what I was already explaining in those tools. I have a background in, or a certification and training in, integrative somatic trauma therapy. There is a lot of, Therapeutic processes that we do, that's basically tailored to the person, because although we all have trauma, it affects us differently.

I've noticed in these sort of cerebral, like, industries and roles, is that. We expect, or not we, but they expect people to sort of be the same and respond the same and have the same sort of like level of coping, right? And we cognitively, we know that, and I'm sure leaders would be like, we know that, but that's not really applied.

And since we all have some form of trauma, whether it's big T meaning like severe case of trauma or little T, which is, small, consistent moments of trauma exposure. And what happens is it changes the way we respond to external stimuli. So in the burnout world, I'm going to lead this back. Like people who are used to high levels of stress and have that sort of like high level trauma experience, they're either going to function in a way Because it's in small little bits and they're just slowly getting used to these sort of like escalated or chaotic environments.

At work, they do really well. That was me. Like, I was like a boss at doing all the things all at once. It was chaos. I could multitask like nobody's business. And I was really good at that. But what it actually was is that my nervous system was regulated to chaos. And your body simply can't keep up with that.

Like your adrenals, your all of the organs in your body, your heart, everything just slowly starts to give out. Other folks who may not have been. exposed to this sort of chaos state, they're not regulated to chaos, and then they have this like whirlwind of stuff. They might not be like experienced to handle that level of go energy, and it doesn't mean that they're like incapable or not good at their jobs.

We, people sort of expect everyone to like work at a fast pace. I'm so glad I don't have to look at the job application or, um, postings anymore because it's like, must be comfortable in a fast paced environment. Like, what does that mean? Like, you know what I mean? That's basically saying, shit's on fire all the time and everything was due yesterday.

So buckle up, you better be ready. And some of us are equipped for our nervous system to handle that, but there's an expiration date for that. It's your body is, Not meant to be operating at that level. We're supposed to rest. But like you said, the 8 to 5 PM meeting block is done. And then you get to work.

And that's exactly how I was at the last position that I was. And we were doing that during COVID when the world was like burning and everything was pure madness. It was get there at nine, have our morning meeting and then it was like boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, back to back. Eating at my desk, watching people storm the Capitol and I was like, what's going on? I have a four o'clock. I'll be back. Let me just suppress all of that and pretend like nothing is happening. Right? It's like everything is fine, 

Danny: but it kind of reminds me Nicole that. Yeah. Once we did go, um, you know, work from home, I would wake up at six in the morning and just go straight to my little tiny desk and say, Oh my God, I'm already late. And I wasn't really late for anything. It was just that go, go, go mentality. Because now I think my paradigm shifted. I come from a government background and where you had to go to the office. And when I left government, when I heard about working from home, I'm like, what is that? Is that even a thing? Are you really, are they really working? So for me to overcompensate for that perception that I had, I had to work ridiculous hours. It was like 12 hours. And then on top of that, we had kids. that we're not going to school. 

Nicole: Oh no. We're one of those. 

Danny: It was real chaos. Thank you for sharing that because I think a lot of people, um, are going through that right now. In my industry, cybersecurity, there's a lot of layoffs. Just kind of a softball question, just because this is all new to me. You mentioned somatic trauma. What is that exactly? 

Nicole: Somatic trauma therapy is. It's what I practice, but soma, it's, I think it's a Greek word, it's like, it's a Greek word. It's basically related to the body. It's just body work, body trauma. We experience a trauma, but the effects of the trauma, it's actually how it affects our bodies. Old school thinking is that our brains disseminate information down to like our brain goes into the hand and all of that stuff, right? And like the new way of thinking of, of us as humans and our experience, it's called Basically from the bottom up so this is where you hear like the gut brain connection like there's so many hormones in your gut It's both things.

They're kind of talking together. So with the Soma and somatic trauma therapy I help individuals who have experienced trauma big T little T any kind and understand how it's affecting their body, how it's manifesting in their daily life. And this could be from the smallest, like most quote unquote insignificant way is like posture.

Just your posture alone is an indicator of how trauma is sitting in your body. If you see someone walk in and they're like this, Obviously something is going on as me as a person in this field would be like, I wonder what's going on with them and are they okay? And if you were to like stand up tall and take a deep breath and you connect in to what you're doing, your body and mind, the way that you feel is going to shift dramatically.

So when I have clients who are dealing With depression and anxiety, and they're like, like, you can always tell, like, the people that are anxious are like, just like, crawling in their own skin and they're just really tight. So, for me, it's a process of, like, gently walking them through, like, well, what would feel like a little in between what would feel like less.

This and less this. So that's like a very small example of, of how to like switch the body because it's, our body has to experience something first before our mind can accept it. That's why like mindset work and affirmations and all of that. works to a certain extent, but you have to have a regulated nervous system for your brain to accept that.

And when we're stuck in our trauma and when we're stuck in our pain, which a lot of us are, our whole country is sick. We are experiencing a global crisis. Collective trauma and this country itself is feeling that and all of us are just like, we're just wanting to crawl out of our skin. And it's really tough because we don't get those tools to learn how to, like, get that stuff out of our bodies.

So with somatic healing, I'm helping people go in back into their bodies, even when it doesn't feel safe to be there. Um, and how to like reconnect with how trauma may still be lingering. Emotionally in the body, and that's chronic pain, stuff like that pain in the neck where you wake up every morning.

You're like, God, this pillow is trash. I need a new pillow. You get a new pillow, 1000 later, 7 pillows later, you're still with that pain in the neck or lower back or elbow. All of that is a manifestation of trapped energy, bad negative. yucky energy. A lot of people are going to be like, that's dumb. That's not true.

Like you don't have energy stuck in your body, but it is true. I've worked with plenty of clients who have had those like physical pain in the elbow and the knee and all their joints and stuff. And after a session, it's gone. And that's exactly what happened to me. And that's why I became a believer in this work because it literally changed how I felt in my body.

Danny: No, that's amazing. What you're saying about, you know, that trapped energy, I definitely agree that we have a lot of. It's that trauma, you know, big T, little T and that this country is, yeah, it's going through a lot of trauma and unfortunately we're going through an election cycle this year. So that's going to be even more.

I love this discussion and Nicole, I'm going to keep on going, but I did want to touch upon changing terminology, as I mentioned before, you know, soft skills change to life skills. But then there's another one you had mentioned imposter syndrome and you changed the vernacular on that. Can you share what's the new phrase that you mentioned and why?

Nicole: Yes. So a lot of people refer to this feeling of Being in a space that You don't feel Like you belong and you feel kind of like a fraud so you could be doing your job really well And you're like, oh my god. I don't know. Am I doing it? Right like Oh, they're going to find out that I'm, that I don't really know what I'm doing.

I'm only here because so and so helped me get here. Like you just feel like you're an imposter. And so that has been called imposter phenomenon for quite a while. Or sorry, imposter syndrome. I'm already used to the new word. Now, a syndrome is like something that needs to be fixed. We're trying to change the phrasing and the terminology because.

It's more of a phenomenon. We don't really know why it happens and why it affects certain people and others, not, it's not something that needs to be fixed because there's nothing wrong with the person we're trying to remove the stigma that it's, it has something to do with the person experiencing that.

I feel like in some ways, this imposter phenomenon thing could be a good thing. You're not. Entering into spaces where you feel like you might not belong, then maybe you're not stretching your creative or professional edge, but not a lot. It's like, how can we see something like this and see it as like, The silver linings and reframe it. So I love that you're doing that and reframing these like really big topics and big issues. 

Danny: Right back at you. Um, could external factors increase that, uh, imposter phenomenon? 

Nicole: Oh yeah. I think part of removing the stigma from people who experienced this is putting the responsibility on those parties who are causing harm. who are being racist, prejudiced, sexist, homophobic, whatever it is. Like, if you have a feeling or an insecurity that you're not belonging there, and then other people are reinforcing that with behavior and comments and microaggressions, then we gotta call that what it is. Right. We can't just put that on the person like, Oh, that's just imposter syndrome or imposter phenomenon.

That's not what that is. I mean, I feel like it's people really need to other people who may be witnesses to that should take that sort of mentorship leadership role and say, Hey, you know what you said wasn't really cool and Maybe not do it publicly, but I think that more people in leadership need to have those like sidebar discussions and like educate each other and be like, it wasn't cool.

Danny: I'm just going to be fully transparent and honest. When I started hearing this particular term, I didn't know what it was and I never really understood because I never. Experience that or thought that of myself, um, and not to say that I'm arrogant or I'm going to be succeeding in everywhere I go. And then another colleague that I met at a cyber security conference, she was transitioning from a different profession and she said the same thing.

She said, what is. Going on with this imposter syndrome at the time, that was the term that we use. She's like, well, what is that? I've never heard of that until I came into cybersecurity, maybe certain industries have that elevated imposter. Phenomenon than others. So it's definitely fascinating when you look at that, but Nicole, I can definitely talk hours with you in this topic.

So one of the key takeaways, or I guess, let me rephrase this. What can we do to bring us down a little bit from that stressful environment? Um, something simple that we can do. 

Nicole: The, the best thing that you can do when it's free and you really just need to carve out. Five to ten minutes. of your day, whether it's in the morning, in the middle of the day, after work, to be alone, to be in your own space. If you're dealing with, I'm telling you about your if you're dealing with stress at work, but if you're already dealing with isolation, this is not my advice to you. If you're dealing with an overwhelming sense of stress, having a few minutes of quiet. And alone time is going to be really important because you're going to start to help minimize that external stimuli, whether it's your cell phone or the screen, people calling you.

If you have kids, go hide in the closet, do what you got to do to get away for a few minutes. I'll show you some somatic techniques that you can do, but we have like the vagus nerve basically from the brain all the way down to the front of our chest and all the way down to our stomach and our organs and this is the nerve that is responsible for our regulation.

So just doing like simple tapping on your collarbone and like rubbing and tapping, you'll get this like wave of like, you just want to sigh, your shoulders will drop a little bit. And this will sort of calm your nervous system and just breathe deeply. So deep breathing, not shallow breathing. And like, Blow or purse your lips out because that will help you Elongate the breath and if you can breathe out farther and longer than you do with your inhale That is gonna send the message from your lungs and your heart to your brain To calm down that you're safe and that you're not in this like Elevated state so just doing that one thing is going to help minimize the stress We're making New neural pathways in the brain.

Like I'm literally helping people rewire their brain from Doing this other thing to doing a bunch of new things a bunch of new little things Like that like one baby step and that gets them into this It's sort of rhythm of being aware of their body. 

Danny: Thank you for that. It's something simple that all of us can practice and especially in this kind of chaotic world that we're living in. Um, with that being said, Nicole, I know we're coming up to our last, uh, question. Any books that, that you would recommend and it could touch on any subject just that has resonated with you recently or previously? 

Nicole: It's called the empath survival guide and this is for all of my sensitive babies out there who just have such big hearts and they want to make a difference and they're in this world of chaos and fast and disconnection and all of this.

So empaths are people who like feel things a little bit more intensely, a little bit more sensitively. It's my belief, this is just me, um, that empaths are created through trauma, early trauma of whether it's like neglect or, you know, a mom or a dad who's like not really present. I think that we develop these really heightened This heightened sensitivity and ability to perceive other people's energy and emotions and like, how are they going to be today?

Am I going to get this person or this version of them? And I think as kids, we adapt our bodies and our nervous system and our chemistry to being super perceptive. So if you are very perceptive and you feel extra, or you feel other people's emotions, that's basically what an empath is. This is. Like a game changer. It'll really help you to understand why you feel so much and how to sort of protect yourself when you're out in the world. 

Danny: Awesome. I'll make sure to, to put that in the show notes, uh, to include your company, all the Products and services. This has been an awesome conversation, Nicole. I'd love to pick your brain, but I think you'll be sending me the bill. If I start asking, 

Nicole: yeah, so you can tell other people how it goes and you'll see you're nervous to regulate. I have a new program or my program is opening its doors in a couple of months. I have an application to join us to see if this is a good fit. If you are either experiencing burnout or on the road to burnout and just want to learn how to manage your mind and your emotions and really regulate your nervous system, I would love to work with you. You can follow me on LinkedIn. I'll be. Starting the newsletter soon. 

Danny: I'll make sure to put all those links on the show notes as well. But again, Nicole, thank you for your time. Just an amazing episode with valuable information that we can start taking care of ourselves. And again, thank you for being on the show.

Nicole: Thank you. It was so fun. I really enjoyed our conversation and I hope that your listeners and all the viewers get something, like you said, valuable out of it. So thank you.