Speaker 1: What is up everybody?
Speaker 1: Hey, this is Ryan, and welcome to our Reflections podcast.
Speaker 1: You know, in the summertime we take a couple of weeks and we ask people in the congregation here at Central and say hey, what are some things you want to talk about?
Speaker 1: We call it our you Pick sermon series and people will write in questions or topics or verses that they want to hear us talk about, and we try to hit them all but we can't.
Speaker 1: There's just too many questions and thoughts and topics that come in.
Speaker 1: So I thought it'd be kind of fun to just address briefly even a couple of these in my Reflections podcast.
Speaker 1: And so this one comes from Beth.
Speaker 1: Beth writes this she says I've been reading the Bible chronologically and when reading some of the Old Testament laws I get really confused.
Speaker 1: In some of the laws given to the Jews, god tells them if they break these rules or if anyone does take them to the edge of town and kill them.
Speaker 1: She says I get it.
Speaker 1: I get that.
Speaker 1: Removing the bad parts, like cancer from the people, removing those parts before they spread, I get that.
Speaker 1: But when Jesus comes, he tells them they got it all.
Speaker 1: Wrong is what she writes.
Speaker 1: I know that I'm missing something between the Torah or the Old Testament, the Hebrew Bible and the New Testament.
Speaker 1: It just seems like two different approaches.
Speaker 1: Well, there you go, something between the Torah or the Old Testament, the Hebrew Bible and the New Testament.
Speaker 1: It just seems like two different approaches.
Speaker 1: Well, there you go.
Speaker 1: That's a bit of a doozy, I mean sort of.
Speaker 1: Here's the question behind the question.
Speaker 1: There are all kinds of passages in the Old Testament or the Hebrew Bible that are really troubling, especially for us with modern sensibilities who are living in 2024.
Speaker 1: And a lot of these things that seem to happen or that God commands or that God does, or that the people say that God does, it seems so counter to our modern sensibilities.
Speaker 1: But even more troubling probably is this idea that, as Beth writes these passages in the Hebrew Bible, they seem to contradict outright the teachings of Jesus.
Speaker 1: Now, there's all kinds of things to be said about this.
Speaker 1: There's a couple of wonderful books out there that are written, and I know that Greg Boyd has written extensively on this topic.
Speaker 1: He's written a couple of long books and actually he sort of combined them and wrote a shorter book, more for the popular audience.
Speaker 1: You just Google Greg Boyd, old Testament Violence you'll find it.
Speaker 1: There's a lot of different books on it, but I'll say this there's a guy called Marcion in the early days of the church, and Marcion his way of solving this problem, which later was deemed heretical because it wasn't really what the church was trying to do.
Speaker 1: But he says look, really it's just two different gods.
Speaker 1: The God of the Hebrew Bible is this sort of God who's mean vindictive.
Speaker 1: The Hebrew Bible is this sort of God who's mean vindictive, retributive, violent.
Speaker 1: And Jesus is a different sort of God.
Speaker 1: He sort of separates the two and, of course, this later becomes deemed, as you know, sort of a heretical idea, because the people of God want to maintain both the divinity of Jesus and the Hebrew Bible and the Hebrew God.
Speaker 1: And so how can we reconcile these two?
Speaker 1: Is the question.
Speaker 1: Well, here's what I'll say just in my five minutes or so on this podcast.
Speaker 1: Is that, look for us, you know, for many of us we want to interpret.
Speaker 1: There's all kinds of ways to interpret the entire Bible, and my way of interpreting the Bible is through Jesus, and so I might put on like a pair of lenses or goggles that are like Jesus lenses or Jesus goggles.
Speaker 1: So there are these guys named Mark Baker and Joel Green.
Speaker 1: They wrote a great book called something about the scandal of the cross.
Speaker 1: I forget what it's called, but it's really good and in there they write they said the whole of scripture finds its meaning in the suffering and death and resurrection of Jesus.
Speaker 1: In other words, like the scriptures themselves from the Hebrew Bible all the way to Revelation, it finds its meaning in the suffering and death and resurrection of Jesus.
Speaker 1: All of the scripture really culminates and sort of crescendos in the action and the life and death and resurrection of Jesus.
Speaker 1: In the book of Hebrews it says it like this Hebrews 1 says that you've heard these prophets in the past speaking to us.
Speaker 1: Now, in these last days, god has spoken to us by his son.
Speaker 1: In other words, like Jesus seems to be kind of elevated over all the rest of scriptures as the fulfillment of all those scriptures.
Speaker 1: So it's important for all of us Luther thought the same stuff it's important that we read and interpret everything the Hebrew Bible, the Jesus stories, obviously, and then all that comes later through the lens or the goggles of Jesus, that our hermeneutic is the fancy $5 seminary word.
Speaker 1: The way we interpret it is through Jesus.
Speaker 1: So if I was downtown, for example, at a parade.
Speaker 1: Let's say we have these parades here in Elk River, but let's say I was downtown somewhere at a parade and you saw me across the parade route and you couldn't talk to me because the parade is going in between us and you couldn't hear me or see me really closely.
Speaker 1: But you saw me from afar and you saw me there with my wife, katie, and all of a sudden I just, like often, like decked Katie, like just punched her right in the side of the head, which I would never do, but let's say I did that.
Speaker 1: You would be like, oh my gosh, ryan just punched his wife.
Speaker 1: What in the world?
Speaker 1: Now, let's say you've known me for many, many years or decades, even you might be.
Speaker 1: We might say, or be tempted to say, oh my gosh, everything I thought I knew about Ryan is wrong.
Speaker 1: I'm going to throw it all away.
Speaker 1: I cannot believe I ever thought Ryan was a decent guy if he did, and ever liked the guy if he liked me.
Speaker 1: But it's all wrong.
Speaker 1: Now, this moment, everything I see or everything I know about Ryan is wrong because of this moment.
Speaker 1: So that's one option.
Speaker 1: Another option might be to say, okay, look, I know Ryan, I've known him for however many years, I know his heart, his character, I know what he's like.
Speaker 1: I'm going to try to reinterpret this moment.
Speaker 1: This is one moment of utter violence and whatever, I'm going to reinterpret it through the lens of all that I know about Ryan.
Speaker 1: So you might say something like golly, maybe Ryan's kids you know, ryan's kids were kidnapped and Ryan loves his kids so much.
Speaker 1: They were kidnapped and the kidnapper said hey, listen, if you and Katie, you know, if you don't get into a public fight on the street corner, I'm going to kill all your kids.
Speaker 1: I know this is like an egregious example, but just bear with me.
Speaker 1: Then you're like, oh, that's why Ryan punches his wife, cause Ryan got this phone call from this kidnapper who said hey, unless you punch your wife in the head, I'm going to kill your kids.
Speaker 1: And then Katie, of course, like, yes, punch me in the head.
Speaker 1: Of course she would do that, you know.
Speaker 1: So you can reinterpret this moment in light of and through the lenses of all that you know about me.
Speaker 1: And I think the same is true of the Bible, that we can look at the Hebrew scriptures and there are lots of bizarre, troubling, antiquated ancient writings in there, that just man.
Speaker 1: They don't make sense and it's hard to bridge the gap always.
Speaker 1: But if we can take the Jesus lens and reinterpret some of that through Jesus, it might help us make a bit more sense.
Speaker 1: Now my guess is there are probably some passages that are just, are really hard to swallow and I just kind of hold those intention.
Speaker 1: But Jesus reframes everything.
Speaker 1: And so with that I start with what I know.
Speaker 1: And I know that Jesus is the embodiment of God and Jesus is the embodiment of love.
Speaker 1: That the cross, this moment of beautiful self-sacrifice, love for the other.
Speaker 1: Even while we were yet sinners, paul writes Christ died for us.
Speaker 1: And while he's hanging on the cross, like while they're crucifying him, jesus declares Father, forgive them, for they don't know what they're doing.
Speaker 1: Jesus has compassion on those because they're like sheep without a shepherd.
Speaker 1: So this moment of the cross, this pinnacle, central moment of Jesus' suffering and death at the hands of the mob and the people, but his love extends into that depth of violence and rejection.
Speaker 1: Even there his love goes, and that's what Jesus is like.
Speaker 1: So I'm going to interpret the whole of scripture through that moment that, regardless of everything and anything else, I know that Jesus is love, he loves others while they're sinners, that Jesus has come to be with us and heal us of our woundedness, our violence and our brokenness.
Speaker 1: And so I start there, and then I try to rewind and lay that over top of everything else.
Speaker 1: So at least start there.
Speaker 1: Start with what you know, which is Jesus, that Jesus is the embodiment of love, that he's God in the flesh and he loves.
Speaker 1: His love reaches into the darkest, most ostensibly God-forsaken parts of our lives, and then let's interpret everything else from there.
Speaker 1: So start there, there, and see where it takes you.
Speaker 1: Okay, I love you guys.
Speaker 1: Talk to you soon, peace.
Speaker 1: Hey, if you enjoy this show, I'd love to have you share it with some friends.
Speaker 1: And don't forget, you are always welcome to join us in person at Central in Elk River at 8.30, which is our liturgical gathering, or at 10 o'clock, our modern gathering, or you can check us out online at clcelkriverorg Peace.