Speaker 1: What is up everybody?
Speaker 1: My name is Ryan and welcome to our Reflections podcast.
Speaker 1: I'm in studio with Mike's, with Mike's, with's with Mike and, honestly, this is take number three of this same podcast topic.
Speaker 1: So I did the first two.
Speaker 1: I'm like, I don't love what I'm, I didn't think it had much flow and really the the point of these.
Speaker 1: I want to just get them out there, some thoughts.
Speaker 1: I want them to be a little bit, you know, unedited, but I want to make them good.
Speaker 1: So anyway, here we are, take number three.
Speaker 1: I usually don't do this.
Speaker 1: I'm usually we usually do a one take, wonder, but this is three takes.
Speaker 1: Anyway, hey, the we had this summer.
Speaker 1: We did a series called you Pick, where we have people writing questions and we try to answer them in the sermon.
Speaker 1: We had several we couldn't get to, we didn't have enough time, and one of them was this it says how do you, how do you defend the faith, how do you respond to people who make points against Christianity?
Speaker 1: So many things I could say here.
Speaker 1: I've only got five to seven minutes, though.
Speaker 1: So I would say a couple of things.
Speaker 1: One you know this is a great question, because all of us, I would argue, all of humanity, whether you believe in God or not, should take seriously the question of God and existence and divine beings, and in the fancy philosophical world they call it teleology.
Speaker 1: What is the point of all of this?
Speaker 1: Where are we going?
Speaker 1: What is my moral responsibility?
Speaker 1: What is my duty as a human being?
Speaker 1: Why do you believe what you believe and what do you believe?
Speaker 1: And I think, too many folks.
Speaker 1: You can go back and see my Plato's cave analogy a couple episodes ago, but too many of us don't think about these things and we should and take it seriously.
Speaker 1: Years ago I had a group of confirmation boys.
Speaker 1: They were freshmen and I told them, because they're there for all kinds of reasons in confirmation, not the least of which is that their parents made them come, that kind of thing.
Speaker 1: But I said hey look, I can't convince you one way or the other, but I want you to take seriously the questions of God.
Speaker 1: And for the next two years and they did it, it was awesome, they really bought in, they showed up every week and we took it seriously.
Speaker 1: So I'd say that is good.
Speaker 1: When you're talking with folks, let them take it seriously, wrestle with it, and you should too.
Speaker 1: And also I'd say it's not unreasonable to believe in God.
Speaker 1: I think there's this narrative out there that people that don't believe in God are somehow more educated or academic or reasonable people and those of us who believe in God are kind of like pathological or kind of crazy.
Speaker 1: But it's just not true.
Speaker 1: I know lots of very intelligent people who are not just, you know, sort of mystic.
Speaker 1: I mean mystics are great, I don't mean that, but like they're not just sort of, you know, believers in fairy tales, although maybe they're accused of being as such, but they're reasonably.
Speaker 1: I mean, they're intelligent, smart, thoughtful people and they believe in God.
Speaker 1: And I think it's just as much a leap of faith to not believe in God as it is to believe in God.
Speaker 1: And atheism, like true atheism, really is a leap of faith, as well as just believing all out in God, and you can't prove that God exists and you can't prove that God doesn't exist.
Speaker 1: I mean you can't prove a negative, but you know what I mean, it's just as much of a leap of faith.
Speaker 1: So that's what I would say.
Speaker 1: I'd frame it all like with that.
Speaker 1: And then I think one more thing if I were to give some Christian's advice, I would say listen, do your best to not use the Bible as some kind of a proof text.
Speaker 1: People just don't.
Speaker 1: Generally in the world I found a lot of people.
Speaker 1: Some people don't care what the Bible says.
Speaker 1: I had this prof in college.
Speaker 1: I was an undergraduate at Red Rocks Community College in Arvada, colorado, taking an English 2 class, and I was writing a paper on the historical validity of the Gospels.
Speaker 1: This is what future pastors write their English papers on.
Speaker 1: And so she said to me I had to meet her after hours and she goes Ryan, that sounds like a fine topic, do your thing, but do not use the Bible as one of your sources, which I wasn't going to.
Speaker 1: But I'm like, okay, and she goes because I don't give a bleep what the Bible says.
Speaker 1: And I was like, oh, okay, like she didn't care.
Speaker 1: And sometimes Christians are tempted to just use the Bible as some kind of a proof text to like prove to people that God exists, or like how they should live their lives, and they can easily just be like I don't care about the Bible.
Speaker 1: And it's happened on many occasions, and so for that I would say there is this ancient practice called apologetics.
Speaker 1: Apologetics comes from the root word apologia, which means to speak in one's own defense.
Speaker 1: So if you defend something, you're an apologist for that thing.
Speaker 1: So I am a huge apologist for John Elway, the greatest quarterback in all of NFL history.
Speaker 1: I don't care how many Super Bowls he won versus Tom Brady, john Elway was a specimen, a man among boys, and he was a dominant force in the NFL for many years.
Speaker 1: And he was ladled with, he was strapped, he was weighed down by subpar teams.
Speaker 1: It wasn't his fault.
Speaker 1: Anyway, I'm an Elway apologist.
Speaker 1: And so there's this Christian apologia.
Speaker 1: A Christian can give a defense of their own faith and I think we should do that.
Speaker 1: And now one of the classical ways of doing this is called classical apologetics, and I love the idea.
Speaker 1: There's all these arguments that are rational, reasonable, apologetic arguments for the existence of God.
Speaker 1: I'm going to name a few.
Speaker 1: You can Google them.
Speaker 1: I don't have time to do them all, Although maybe that would be a cool topic for a future podcast, but just Google them, you'll find them.
Speaker 1: One is called the cosmological argument, one is called the teleological argument, one is called the ontological argument.
Speaker 1: There's one called the moral argument.
Speaker 1: You can just Google these and you can find.
Speaker 1: Or just Google classical apologetics, christianity, and you'll find a bunch of them.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 1: There's the watchmaker argument.
Speaker 1: You probably have heard of this one.
Speaker 1: My favorite is the cosmic constants.
Speaker 1: I don't know what it's called, but it's this idea that in order for life to exist on this planet, there are all these cosmic variables that are constants.
Speaker 1: It'd have to be dialed to the right, exact number.
Speaker 1: So like the amount of carbon in the atmosphere, the gravitational pull, the distance from the sun, the temperature of the air, all these things have to be dialed exactly right, and there's many of them that have to be exactly right in order for life to exist, and on this planet they are, and so it's highly unlikely that it was by random, I mean the odds that it would be just randomly all these things would be dialed just right.
Speaker 1: It's very I mean the odds are very, very, very low, like extremely low.
Speaker 1: You know there's also the counter argument to this.
Speaker 1: That's the multiverse argument.
Speaker 1: But just Google that too.
Speaker 1: I don't have time for that, but the multiverse argument is another leap of faith, and so there's no reasonable reason to believe in the multiverse other than this is how you might get a world like this.
Speaker 1: But either way, google these.
Speaker 1: They're wonderful and they're helpful sometimes in talking about God, but here's the bottom line.
Speaker 1: Two things One, you cannot prove that God exists.
Speaker 1: You just can't.
Speaker 1: At some point, even in all these arguments, as good as they might be, you have to take a leap of faith.
Speaker 1: And then, secondly, these arguments approach human beings as though we're giant brains on a stick, and so we're trying to appeal to the intellect of a lot of people, and for some folks they need that, like some folks are just waiting for a reasonable, rational argument for God and they'll jump on.
Speaker 1: But oftentimes information like this doesn't lead to transformation.
Speaker 1: You know, I think about cigarettes all the time.
Speaker 1: It says on the package that it causes cancer and we know that the data is overwhelming.
Speaker 1: The information about the harm of cigarettes is overwhelming, but people still smoke.
Speaker 1: And the information that's out there that talks about the benefits of exercising for 20 minutes a day it's overwhelming how much it does your body good to do these things, but people still don't exercise.
Speaker 1: And it's because we're not just giant brains on a stick in need of more information.
Speaker 1: We don't need more data.
Speaker 1: Some people do, but a majority of us we don't.
Speaker 1: We're actually like Augustine said.
Speaker 1: Augustine said, augustine wrote.
Speaker 1: You know he lived back in the 400s and he says that we're beings of desire, that we're like giant hearts on a stick or walking around and that we need to be inspired.
Speaker 1: We have longings in our soul that we want to have fulfilled, and these kinds of things, and so I would argue that a better I don't know about better the apologetic that I favor is what we call an existential apologetic, where I appeal to people's hearts, their longings, their desires.
Speaker 1: I try to inspire and awaken people.
Speaker 1: If you ever hear my sermons online, my sermons are not.
Speaker 1: I mean, I do give information but I'm not trying to argue people into the kingdom of God Although I again, I think there's a place for that but I really try to inspire and awaken them, assuming that God is already in their life, trying to wake them up and lure them.
Speaker 1: So when you're having conversation with people, I think pull on those threads, those existential threads, the ones that want to argue sort of in an intellectual way.
Speaker 1: Great, do that as well.
Speaker 1: Have some of those classical arguments in your back pocket and for those a couple of good books.
Speaker 1: There's a great book by Greg Boyd called Letters from a Skeptic Great book.
Speaker 1: It's kind of a mixture of existential and classical apologetics.
Speaker 1: He answers wonderful questions about the faith.
Speaker 1: There's a book called the Reason for God by Tim Keller.
Speaker 1: It's also good.
Speaker 1: And then NT writes Simply Christian.
Speaker 1: I think a good mix of classical and existential apologetics.
Speaker 1: But that's where I my apologetic is one.
Speaker 1: I call it an apologetic of love, and I don't mean love like foo-foo, rainbows and butterflies, I mean like Jesus dying on the cross for people who don't deserve it.
Speaker 1: That kind of that's what love is like.
Speaker 1: I mean 1 John, 3, 16,.
Speaker 1: This is how we know what love is that Jesus dies on the cross.
Speaker 1: What if we did that for our neighbors?
Speaker 1: What if you know, even in these arguments, how can we love the person we're arguing with or talking about the faith with, and just show them, put on display the work of God in the world, the redemption, the renewal of the world.
Speaker 1: Put it on display.
Speaker 1: If Christians did that, rather than trying to convince people with I don't know other arguments that God is real, if we just showed them what God is like and lived in tune with God as a creator, I think it's much more compelling.
Speaker 1: And so think deeply about these things, keep doing that.
Speaker 1: Study these classical arguments and then also just remember that we are human beings, are giant hearts, we're beings of desire.
Speaker 1: I think that Augustine is right and, like CS Lewis said, human history is the long and terrible story of human beings trying to find something other than God which will make them happy.
Speaker 1: People have longings for happiness and joy and meaning in these things, and I think that life in life in tune with God, that Jesus came to give us life to the full, that's what he's talking about.
Speaker 1: That's the only thing that will satisfy us.
Speaker 1: So, all right, that's all I got.
Speaker 1: Peace.
Speaker 1: Love you guys.
Speaker 1: Hey, if you enjoy this show, I'd love to have you share it with some friends.
Speaker 1: And don't forget, you are always welcome to join us in person at Central in Elk River, at 830, which is our liturgical gathering, or at 10 o'clock, our modern gathering, or you can check us out online at clcelkriverorg.
Speaker 1: Peace.