1946 the Documentary - The (mis) translation that wrongly shifted our culture. (feat. Director Rocky Roggio)

In this podcast Rick and Maiya are honored to have as their guest, Sharon "Rocky" Roggio, Director of the critically acclaimed documentary " 1946: The Translation That Shifted Culture,"  to discuss the misinterpretation of biblical texts that have been used to condemn homosexuality.

Join us in this episode as we dive into this incredible documentary which unveils the mystery of how theology, history, culture, and politics led to a Biblical mistranslation, the man who tried to stop it, and the impassioned academic crusade of the LGBTQIA+ Christian community-driven to discover the truth.   The film examines the historical and political implications of these mis-interpretations and challenge the notion that homosexuals will not inherit the kingdom of God.

The documentary has received widespread critical acclaim including

Winner at the Palm Springs International Film Festival 2023 BEST of FEST
Winner at Doc NYC 2022 Audience Choice Award
Winner Cleveland International Film Festival Audience Choice Award
Winner Queer North Film Festival Audience Award
and many more.

OFFICIAL WEBSITE:
https://www.1946themovie.com/

1946 The Movie Instagram
https://www.instagram.com/1946themovie/

Rocky Roggio is an independent filmmaker and production designer (credits include House of Cards, Red Dawn). Rocky is also a member of the LGBTQIA+ community, and moved out of her home after coming out to her conservative, religious parents. Rocky’s father, Sal Roggio, is a non-affirming pastor and preaches that the LGBTQIA+ lifestyle is sinful.

Transcript

00:00 SPEAKER_04 I am a pastor's daughter who is a lesbian and surprise those things don't mix very well. And so my own journey to try to find acceptance through my non-affirming parents, this has been a struggle for a very long time. I spent many years away from the church and then revisited the church in Los Angeles where we're supposed to be more progressive and liberal. But I recognize that the same things were happening in these churches, but now it's the bait and switch thing where it's like, you know, they're not even telling you that they're not affirming that all of a sudden you spend months, years with these people and you become friends and all of a sudden it's like, well, wait a minute, I can't get married here. Yeah, I can't lead. I'm less than. It's like, this is wrong.

00:38 SPEAKER_03 Yeah. And coming in with this whole notion of come as you are, you're welcome and you're accepted, but you know you're going to go to hell, right? Yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo. The world may not need another podcast, but it definitely could use a slap. Welcome to slap the power. Our new show from the slap podcast network that crosses artistry with advocacy through the universal power of music, comedy, movies and beyond.

01:20 SPEAKER_01 That's right. And I am beyond honored to have on my right, the co-pilot for this ride. You may know her from the voice. You may know her from, I don't know, poly side degree from Yale. Who knows? But she is one of the most amazing humans on planet earth.

01:33 SPEAKER_03 Miss Maya Sykes. And you may know my co-creator from, I don't know, this amazing band called vintage trouble. I don't know if you've ever heard of them. Also he is the creator behind the slap podcast network. Please welcome Mr. Rick Barriodil.

01:50 SPEAKER_01 Gracias, gracias. Each episode of slap the power, we aim to fuse the unique power of artists who advocate through their art and their story to try and raise awareness and resources for some of the most critical issues of our time. And on the show today, the mistranslation that shifted culture. And this was when I found out about it from our associate producer, Brie. She worked on this documentary and it fascinated me. And one of my favorite scenes in West Wing was kind of based on this topic.

02:23 SPEAKER_03 And Maya is definitely deep in this topic. I really find this topic so intellectually stimulating for me because of the ways in which the Bible has been misappropriated for political gain. And that trend dates back several thousand years and is still a trend that's going on now. And I think that this specific discussion is really timely to the political climate that we have now because it was so easily dismissed and the lie that came from it was so easily politicized and changed the course of history. So we're specifically talking if you don't know already, we're talking about the text from the Bible that have been used to condemn homosexuality. These texts specifically are Genesis 19, Leviticus 18, 22, and Corinthians 6, 9. So these passages that have been used to condemn homosexuality have been cited in a specific way and bastardized in a specific way to get a politicized message across for political gain. And that message is homosexuals will not inherit the kingdom of God. This is not true, however, if we go back to the text in its original form. And here to help us shine a light on that is this amazing woman who sought out from her own journey to seek why the Bible was condemning her and if they actually were. So our director is none other than the amazing woman who directed the documentary 1946, The Translation That Shifted Culture. Now let's just talk about this film for a little bit. 1946 has won several awards, including the Audience Choice Award at the Cleveland International Film Festival, Best of Fest, that's a good one. That's a good one at Palm Springs International Film Festival. And that's a huge one. Yeah. And the Audience Award at the DOC NYC, which is America's largest documentary festival

04:29 SPEAKER_01 award. That's right. And we're honored to have in studio today the director of this beautiful documentary, Sharon Rocky-Roggio. Thank you. Rocky! Rocky!

04:38 SPEAKER_04 Thank you for being here. Of course. Thank you. Yeah, those are all wonderful film festivals. I'm just going to brag a little. We also got the Audience Choice Award at Boston. So cool! At the Tory Prize. Flex! Flex! And in Miami at Outfest Shine. Yeah! Yeah, so it's been wonderful. The audience has really responded to the work, which as you all know, being artists when you put your soul into something and you want it to be received well, to have the audience respond the way that they are doing all over the nation. And we went to the British Film Institute in London. We've got a standing ovation there. That's amazing! Yeah.

05:10 SPEAKER_01 We hope to do more countries soon. And it's fascinating to me. And I also want to put this sort of disclaimer in there. The objective here is to find the Overton window. But you know, I make jokes all the time, you know, about the evangelicals kind of pushing back and everything. So many of my friends kind of fall into this category. And I really do want to approach this with an open heart and an open mind. But after watching the documentary, it's not a faith thing. This is written word and mistranslation of the written word that only happened and really came to what we know today in 1946, the title of the film. And if you can start off and tell us how you tripped over this yourself, because I just found out about it.

05:55 SPEAKER_04 And it's fascinating because you realize this is all just a wrong, it's a mistranslation. Yeah. And thank you for recognizing the tone of the film because we do understand that this is not an attack on anybody's faith. This isn't an attack on God. It's not an attack on your beliefs. This is about a real mistranslation that impacts our real reality that we have the evidence to show how this was done. And so if we can start from there, hopefully we can have a bigger conversation. So that was a little bit of a catalyst for me as well to get involved because I'm a product of religious trauma, however you want to say it. I am a pastor's daughter who is a lesbian and surprise, those things don't mix very well. And so my own journey to try to find acceptance through my non-affirming parents, which means they don't affirm me fully in my identity, I can be a participant in some church cultures, but I'm not fully equal. And so this has been a struggle for a very long time. I spent many years away from the church and then revisited the church in Los Angeles where we're supposed to be more progressive and liberal. But I recognize that the same things were happening in these churches, but now it's the bait and switch thing where it's like, you know, they're not even telling you that they're not affirming that all of a sudden you spend months, years with these people and you become friends and all of a sudden it's like, oh, wait a minute, I can't get married here. Yeah, I can't lead. I'm less than it's like this is wrong.

07:15 SPEAKER_03 And coming in with this whole notion of come as you are, you're welcome and you're accepted, but you know you're going to go to hell, right?

07:22 SPEAKER_04 Exactly. And all sins are equal. It's like, first of all, it's not a sin. So once I started to clap back or slap back, right, at this church that I was going to in Los Angeles, I started to really ask the questions and really doing the digging in the Bible. And I found people who've been doing the work well before me. And I stumbled upon Kathy and Ed, who stumbled upon at Yale University these archives because they asked the question first, who made this decision to put the word homosexual in the Bible and why? Why did it end up in 1946? Was it political? Was it cultural? Was it ideological? So they asked a question. They started doing the work and I was just a product of it myself trying to answer my own questions. And so as a filmmaker and somebody who's been working in film for a long time, I felt that it would have been irresponsible of me not to do this film once I learned that there is a tangible mistake that we can start from. This is important for me and my family. I know it's got to be important for so many other people. So I quit my job, just started putting my own money in and was like, I have to do this no matter what.

08:21 SPEAKER_03 You know, so I did. Now I have a question specifically related to the film. One thing that I found super fascinating is that before this 1946 divergence, homosexuality in the Bible was referenced as homosexual deeds and those were given that name or that moniker was really given to acts of deviant sex. So it became the tie that homosexuality was then therefore tied to acts of deviance, like acts of pedophilia. So it seemed like there was a direct correlation between demonizing homosexuality by attaching it to acts of depravity that were really meant to take away choice, to be abusive. And then we have this on top of that, you know, it being this divergence. So I want to talk a little bit about how that came to be and how this divergence was easily it was it was easy to happen because there was already the tonality of homosexuality being mistranslated because there wasn't the right words. You know, we look at the Bible originated in three texts, Greek, Hebrew and Aramaic. So the language did not exist to even say what homosexuality was. So in its early translations, a lot of acts of pedophilia or acts of power, acts of abuse were tied to the word homosexuality. So it seems like this divergence was even easier to do because of that climate.

10:00 SPEAKER_04 Can you speak a little bit about that for our audience? Yeah, absolutely. And so when Kathy and I first went in to ask these questions, they felt that there was malice attached to this. They're like, I know that the translators are going to get these dirty homosexuals and they're going to, you know, this is politicized and all this stuff. But what they found was the translation committee when they were challenged on it actually admitted that they made a mistake in everything you just said, abuse, exploitation, power over someone. And the King James says those who use and abuse others. That's actually sorry, that's Eugene Peterson in the message. I'll get back to the King James in a minute. But the point is, is abuse of others. And so what they found was the translation committee team actually saying, no, we got this wrong and we can do better. And then they changed it to sexual perverts, which still isn't a good translation. But you hit the nail on the head. It's like when the translation committee made the decision to put the word homosexual in the Bible for the first time, they were looking into the culture and they were like, okay, so we know we have abusive sex. We have the Malakoi and the Arsenikoi tie, which you'll have to see the movie a little bit and maybe we can get into the weeds with that in the Greek in a little bit. That was fascinating too when I learned that one. And it's men who are having sex with men, but what kind of sex is this? It's illicit sex, it's power and it's usually non-consensual. There's a lot of these things going on there. But in the 1930s, when the translation committee team first looked to do this work, they looked into the culture, they said, who is these abusers? And they were like, oh, homosexual. And so, yes, it was easy to pen that in. But now what we can see from the notes is the translation committee actually saying, oh, wait a minute, you're right. We made an error. And so every single revised standard version translation committee from the 70s on, they realized in 1959 when they first got the letter, they were able to publish again in 1971. They had a 10 year gap because of a contract issue. So they couldn't even publicize it. How many Bibles went out in 10 years? Exactly. And we talk about that in the film as well. And then by the 70s, when the other Bibles used the RSV as their root text and then started to put the word homosexual, not just in 1 Corinthians 6, 9, but in the six different clobber passages where it just doesn't belong. That's where we see malice for the first time. And the Jerry Falwell camp getting in bed with the Republican Party and politicizing it and politicizing gay people for the first time in history.

12:24 SPEAKER_03 Now, it seems like the people who specifically politicized this and specifically championed the bastardization of the Bible, the living Bible version, which is basically just a dumbed down version of the Bible, it's in now, correct me if I'm wrong, but it seemed like the biggest proponents of those idioms had their own scandals of abuse of sexual power.

12:48 SPEAKER_04 Am I wrong? So we see in the living Bible too that the author of that, it was a Tyndale publication and the guy who put it out was just trying to make a Bible that was more readable to his family. His children, yes. Right. And so we think we can just assume from the evidence in the data that there wasn't malice attached to those mistakes as well. It was ignorance, yes. Assumptions, as Cathy would say in the film, yes. But malice, no. We don't see the malice until the Falwell camp said, oh, look, we can run with it.

13:20 SPEAKER_03 Yes, and I just found like those people who championed it.

13:23 SPEAKER_04 Oh, right. So yeah, like Billy Graham. Seem to have their own scandals with sexual abuses of power. Oh, well, yes. That's another story. And I just find that.

13:34 SPEAKER_02 Yeah, yeah.

13:35 SPEAKER_03 Interesante. Yes, yeah.

13:37 SPEAKER_04 So when we see it happening today, you know, and so the transgender community is being used as a scapegoat and that's the biggest political talk right now. I mean, Trump said it recently in one of his speeches, he's like, I talk about taxes and everybody's like, I say transgender and they go nuts.

13:51 SPEAKER_03 And it's like you're putting the game out there. And 2021 was the most dangerous year on record for transgendered individuals.

13:57 SPEAKER_04 So it's completely politicized. They're using it for power. They don't care about us at all. And there are people who are using it in this way. But again, we wanted to make a film that wasn't wasn't vilifying everyone because there are innocent people, too, who believe these things, this propaganda that are just they fall victim to it as well. And so we want to lead with empathy and conversation and try to get to the academics of it as best we can to encourage bigger conversation, to shift our culture away from politicizing groups of people.

14:30 SPEAKER_03 Sure. I thought that was so beautiful, especially using your father as the example, because you both have so much empathy for each other, even though you're clearly at an impasse about the idea. But I think that the wonderful portion about this film for me was it opening dialogue, whether or not because I do feel that our way over is dialogue and just keep having the conversations. And so I did feel that as the hopeful entity, even if your father doesn't cross the Rainbow Bridge if you want. But I did think just just the fact that he was saying, you know, I do feel empathy, even though I don't understand. And I've chosen to say that this way is right for my own mind. But it does lead me to this next question. How do you change the minds of people who've decided not to change their minds?

15:28 SPEAKER_04 So one of the reasons we wanted to get my dad in the film, and I'm so grateful that he was in the film, not only just to show the love that we have for each other and to mirror for other people what our struggle is not unique. And this goes on in a lot of families. And so my dad's lesson would be, don't kick your child out, love your child. And my lesson would be, OK, if it's safe for you and you can be in relationship and you feel it can be healthy in some ways, be in relationship. But one of the other most important things is we know and I know we're not going to my dad's never going to change his mind. He made that very clear in the film. And so there are going to be a lot of people whose minds are not going to be changed. And that's OK. They're allowed to stay in their beliefs. And again, this is not a tackle on anybody's beliefs. But once your beliefs start to impede on my policy, on my basic human rights, now we have a problem. And so the goal is to have there's enough people in the church that are already this is tugging on their heart. Well, now we can have the head match the heart. We've got the we've got the work. We've done the work. Here you go. Let's hopefully now let's let's move this group who are willing to recognize new information and say, yeah, we've been doing this wrong. And the church has a long history of doing it wrong. They've been on the wrong side of history for many, many, many things. So let's just admit what it is. Sometimes we get scripture wrong.

16:46 SPEAKER_01 Even Galileo was died in jail because of the way house arrest. Yeah, because he said that the said that the earth revolves around the sun.

16:52 SPEAKER_04 And there are five clobber passages that put him in jail that, you know, and so it's like we have to catch up sometimes.

16:57 SPEAKER_01 Yeah. Incredible props for putting yourself out there so vulnerable in the story. I just thought that that was it was beautiful. And and I know how hard that, you know, that it clearly was. But it is in the case of your dad, you know, like you said, you're not you're loved, but then with a condition attached to it. Right. And the and this is where the policy to me from the Jerry Falwell and the Reagan era became it is politics because it was power. They they they you know, when you know something is mistranslated wrong or something like that, to then address it head on would be, you know, a good faith argument to then instead use it as power and just and just and keep pushing something that is not actually accurate. At a certain point, it becomes disingenuous. And we're not even talking about that. We're not even talking about the written word anymore. And that's where like for me, I didn't even know the Malachi was like translated as soft and lazy. Right. It wasn't it was a it wasn't it was a lie. It wasn't a lifestyle. I think it was just it was to describe the way somebody somebody is.

18:09 SPEAKER_04 And Laura Coward, we do this today. You're sissy or pansy. And so the worst thing you can be as a man is a woman. And so it was feminizing a woman. So some of it could be slang, too. We don't really know what the intention of these words and the use of them. Was it an actual prostitute, Malachoi, or somebody who's being a young petarasty, a young boy being used for sex? Or is it and it has been proven that it's in the context of, you know, you're just lazy or a coward. You're not a man. Seriously. Yeah, no, it's the truth. For years.

18:41 SPEAKER_01 It's the truth. And we were talking about this kind of off camera when you can control power. The Republican Party had to find an issue. They continue to do it. They have to find an issue to keep people in the party because they're not leading with policy. They're not leading with ways to help you. They're leading with ways to have you upset at the way somebody else lives. Right. You know, and that is that's at the core of it is they've been able to sort of hold on to this minority rule with respect to the majority of Americans, Republicans included are, you know, it's a it's an issue where we've definitely softened in a lot of ways on homosexuality. But the power is still controlled by the minority.

19:24 SPEAKER_03 And that's usually the case is that the easiest way to control the masses is by making them as stupid as possible. So going on off of their fears, right, exaggerating them and then going to the lowest common denominator is the way that most people, Republican or not, have maintained power. And I feel like the idiom of language and the access to books has always been the play card of any person who underneath their political agenda really has, you know, megalomaniac tendencies. Sure. You know, so there's one thing that I really loved when the theologist David said you find him and he said that I used to think that I was called to ministry despite the fact that I was gay. And now I realize I was called to ministry because I was gay. I think that that was that was such a beautiful moment in the film. But it really highlights the PTSD that so many, especially gay Americans, experience at the hands of religion. So what advice can you give those individuals who have experienced that kind of PTSD, but are still looking for a Christian source? What hope can we offer to those people? Because I felt the film definitely gave me a cadence of hope that I would love to spread to. Sure.

20:59 SPEAKER_04 There are tons of resources available for anybody who does want to still maintain a faith connection and or even just a community of people who have gone through the same thing. There are resources on Canyonwalkerconnections.com, which is Kathy Boldock's website. And Free Mom Hugs is good for mothers and parents and fathers. Also, there's a Free Dads Hugs who want to support their same-sex attracted children. And these are secular or religious. So just know that there are people doing the work and there are people like you who you can start community with. And if you are in a place where you can be in relationship with your loved ones who are oppressing you, again, make sure you're in a safe space, make sure you're in a healthy headspace, make sure you've done the work first. And it's a shame that we have to take on some of this responsibility sometimes to maintain the relationship. But if that loved one is important to you enough, then do the work, meet with the right people, get in the right headspace, and just show love. Just show love to your loved one as much as you can and let them see you for who you are. And if they can't see you for who you are, get away. Exactly. Because again, we want to make sure you're in a safe space. And unfortunately, sometimes our chosen family, they say blood is thicker than water. That's actually more about your chosen family, not the actual bloodline. Yeah.

22:24 SPEAKER_03 I also wanted to highlight belovedarise.org, which is an organization focused on helping youth embrace their faith and queer identity. I think that it is so important to allow an individual to foster those things together because so much of your identity sometimes comes from what your faith is. And to be censored from finding that balance feels just so mean and crippling. I just see the negative effects, especially on queer youth. Our youth in general are struggling. We have to remember, we're looking at an entire generation of children that have no social skills whatsoever because the last three years of their lives were robbed. The chance to ask somebody out to a dance, have a crush on someone, to go to grad night, to go to all of these important milestones that got taken away. And I can't imagine what it's like to also be living in a time in which your identity is politicized everywhere around you. That's got to be frightening.

23:32 SPEAKER_04 No, belovedarise is a wonderful organization and I'm glad you mentioned it. It's an inner faith for queer youth of faith. And so all faith religions are welcome, all faith beliefs. And it's just a way for people to, again, get community in that age group. And that was started by one of our executive producers, June Young is his name. And he owns a company in Seattle called Zoom Communications and is a queer Christian who just really has a vision for helping queer youth. And I couldn't be more excited to be connected with the organization.

24:07 SPEAKER_03 I think queer Christian is a term that many people don't know exists, especially if you are one. So maybe we should elaborate on that. What does it mean to be a queer person who is Christian in today's market, in today's era? Sure.

24:24 SPEAKER_04 Yeah, so a lot of people would say there's no such thing. You can't be gay and Christian or LGBTQ and Christian or trans and Christian. You have to put aside that identity and that's Satan and silliness and all that stuff. But that's not true. You can identify and have a walk with God in whatever way you in that relationship with God see fit. And hopefully in a healthy way, obviously. But no, they can't take that away from you. If you want to have a relationship with God, you can absolutely hold on to your LGBTQIA identity and hold on to your faith identity. And there are organizations out there that will celebrate you instead of just tolerating you. And that's a very important difference. And that's something that we need to know. There's also an organization I want to shout out called churchclarity.org. And if you want to go to a church, you can check on church clarity to make sure because they will list whether a church is affirming it or not or the ones who are the bait and switch where they don't list it on their website. If they don't list on their website whether they're affirming it or not, they're probably not affirming. Okay, good to know.

25:22 SPEAKER_01 Is there a line in between what I'm hearing? And correct me if I'm wrong. Is there a line between the ones that are affirming and the ones that aren't?

25:32 SPEAKER_03 They're like, come as you are. But they're really like on some Hillsong type junk.

25:36 SPEAKER_04 And we just did some research. Yeah, the 100 top churches in the United States are not affirming and Hillsong is one of them. We got a lot of work to do.

25:45 SPEAKER_03 Listen, Hillsong, that documentary, I see a whole other list of documentaries that's going to happen on them little mega churches and they make a way.

25:54 SPEAKER_01 So there's a documentary on Hillsong? Oh, it's good. Oh my God. Okay. You got to go.

26:00 SPEAKER_04 I think it's on Hulu. But that's not spiritual growth. That's capitalism. Absolutely.

26:04 SPEAKER_03 But that's a whole point I think is the minute they put in the idea of mega churches, they changed from actually trying to help people celebrate and spread the word of God. And they just wanted membership. And so once it got down to membership, they went to a capitalist model. And once they went to a capitalist model, the issue with that in my opinion, and just the way that I'm seeing it, is it's not sustainable. If you're attaching a model on something that's meant to be of faith and of community, that's of capitalism and of monetary gain, eventually it's going to crumble on itself because the system supports the other.

26:51 SPEAKER_04 Isn't that a deadly sin, greed? Right. But you know, they get real sanctified on what they consider a sin till somebody call out the sin. I mean, it's an adultery like in the Ten Commandments. That's all right.

27:07 SPEAKER_01 Apparently if you're a president and a five times divorced game show host.

27:13 SPEAKER_03 I was like, first of all, if you looking like Jerry Springer or Maury Povich with your wife and baby mama choices.

27:19 SPEAKER_01 Right, right. You're…

27:21 SPEAKER_03 Like every time we come up there, I just want to be like, Cherry, cherry. And I know that's wrong.

27:25 SPEAKER_01 I think you did hit on kind of, we are sort of crossing a Rubicon, I feel like also with, it was keep going left. And now it seems because everybody is kind of, like I said, the majority of Americans are fine with homosexual relationships and marriage. The majority of them are laws federally don't reflect this because of the way the electoral colleges structured from a power standpoint towards the rural places. And back to your point on if you can keep people uninformed, you can control them. But I do feel like we're hitting a Rubicon because on the trans issue, it's a non-issue. It just, it's something that can grab the headlines. I saw something where there was one girl or one boy in Alabama that had wanted to, I think, play on the girls team or vice versa, a girl that wanted to play on the boys team and didn't. And that ultimately created this movement through the Alabama Republican state legislature that is trying to outlaw this. It is anecdotal at best when you have one thing.

28:34 SPEAKER_03 Yeah, we're talking, yeah, a percent of a percent. And we're also talking about children. Half the time they don't even know. I remember sitting, I was watching my niece's soccer game and at the time she was six and she was like, I'm going to marry my best friend. And she doesn't, I mean, if I ever was like, oh, she's gay. She's six. Like, how come these kids just can't be children? Why is this? You're politicizing the wrong things and not pay it. But you're doing it because by politicizing that, you can grasp control because you can go to shock value. And that's what it seems like all this is, is shock value to get the most enraged people hollering and then you can sway the country. So I have a question. Now, what's next for you after this?

29:25 SPEAKER_04 What's next on the horizon and how do we help champion this fight? So we're working on a distribution deal. We don't have that yet. We don't have a sales agent. So if anybody knows a way that we can get this film scene to the masses by as many people as possible, we have some wonderful opportunities coming up. I was letting Rick know we did get into Outfest, which is in Los Angeles. Thank you. And so we play on July 22nd at 415 at the DGA. And that's a great opportunity. But we just would really the best way to support us is follow us on social media at 1946, the movie.com across all social media platforms and keep sharing, telling your friends and family, watch out because we are going to release. If we don't get distribution, we're going to self release. OK. And so we'll see what that looks like. And we're making our decision in the next six weeks. So yeah, watch our pages. We'll be making announcements soon so we can make it available to as many people as possible. So what's next for me is the impact campaign, which means making sure that the film is available in underprivileged communities, communities that might not be able to hold a screening or big cities. So we can go to small town Alabama and Mississippi and Oklahoma and Utah, wherever we can go. And even all around the world, we've got ambassadors. We call them people who have been reaching out because we have a huge social media following and people who have been following the film for years. We've got ambassadors in South Africa, in New Zealand, in Australia, in the UK, in Spain. And so we're going to start initiating the United Church of Canada is first on our list, actually. And so yeah, Canada, they've actually been very supportive.

31:01 SPEAKER_02 And so it's your undoing. That's what this movie is so great. I'm still working.

31:06 SPEAKER_01 Yeah, no, this film is so great. You're basically undoing this this sort of pamphlet kind of propaganda twist on things that has caused so much trauma and so much destruction in the I think in the family structure unnecessarily. And it's causing this fight in between unnecessarily. And I and I just I appreciate you bringing this to light and we're going to do everything we can. We'll put anything will be in our show notes. Thank you.

31:34 SPEAKER_04 One more thing, though, we also are working on a workbook discussion guide. So once the movie is worldwide available, which again, we're working on this year, there will be a pamphlet that you can download and or get a booklet so you can write in and take notes. But it'll define some of the things that we mentioned in the film that maybe help you give it a little bit more understanding. We'll also answer questions like, well, homosexual wasn't there, but it was always a sodomite. And that's the same thing. Well, no, it's not. So we'll answer that. You know, and just some of the top questions that we get, they're like, what about one man, one woman, the biblical view on marriage and things like that, that we're going to make sure that those questions are answered. Some other thought processes are put in there and then extended resources so people can really dive into this either individually or as a community.

32:16 SPEAKER_03 And I think that this is the way because the issue to me is that 54 percent of the nation has lost the ability of comprehension. So they don't have the ability to be critical thinkers. And this ideal is being slowly and systemically farmed out of our education system. So we really don't have the we don't have the tools to be critical thinkers at a national level. So the thing that I really want to point to is a quote from your film, which says, as long as we are talking to one another, there is still hope. I think that what you're doing is helping foster conversations. And if we can make conversations happen, as opposed to us just yelling at each other, maybe there's maybe there's a light at the end of the tunnel.

33:10 SPEAKER_04 And abusers with themselves with mankind was the King James. I just had to add that in there. Everybody was keeping notes. And that's another thing we'll do is we'll lay out what first Corinthians six, nine through ten, what it's been translated over time. And as we can see, it's not homosexual. No, no.

33:25 SPEAKER_03 And it's a huge I remember this from my own time at Yale. You could check out in the Sterling Library, you could check out old versions of the Bible from different monk orders. Right. So they had a Frangelican copy. They had a Franciscan copy. And you could get one hour of time in the Sterling Library, which is not that far from the Beinecke Library. And they were humanically sealed in these boxes. And it almost looked like you remember the movie Seven, where they would illuminate the books. It looked like that because of the way that the books are lit and you have to wear gloves and you could turn the pages with these special, you know, and if you look at whole passages, right, from one order, maybe 400 years prior to another order, there's words missing. There's different just from the Latin and the trade. So just the transcription of it. This was a huge game of telephone. So of course, a lot of words got lost. And this seems like not that hard of a leap to make logically. And yet people will fight you tooth and nail about the word of the Bible. I wonder why that is.

34:30 SPEAKER_04 Well, that gives them a sense of security because they know they have all the answers. And that's what we want. We want answers. The unknowing is what's fearful. We want an anchor. Yeah. And so that gives them power because they say they know. And it's just a false assumption. And it does more damage for the individual and for our society. So if we can, again, break these ideas without pulling away somebody's faith or really having them feel like we just pulled the anchor up or degrading them. Yeah, exactly.

35:00 SPEAKER_03 I think that's the thing that my takeaway from the film was a real attempt at trying to give as much empathy while educating, which I think is the move. Thank you.

35:14 SPEAKER_04 Yeah. Thank you so much. It was hard as you can imagine. And I went through my angry periods as we all do. And sometimes I have fits of rage and I'm angry at this whole issue. It's very frustrating, but we can't go into this with anger. We have to go into this with our heads on straight and open heart. I mean, try. We're gay. We can have our heads on gay. Right. And our heart in the right place and mature. As Dr. Parker says in the film, we have to handle these things maturely. And hopefully we can the right people are going to be attracted to it. Amen.

35:46 SPEAKER_03 At the end of the day, I think the biggest takeaway is that if you remember that God is love, then that should be it.

35:56 SPEAKER_01 Yeah, that should be it.

35:58 SPEAKER_03 That's my favorite line from a Luther Vandross song. First thing I know, God is love. The next thing would be, he loves me. And I always thought that was pretty. So good.

36:11 SPEAKER_01 All right. So before we let you go, we play this silly little game and it's because we serve up so much kale here. We're cutting it with chocolate cake. But you did agree ahead of time to do this. So the deal is to pick two cards and put them face down. Got it. Got them face down. Yep. All right. And I got my two. I'm going to do them right together. And the only deal is with the cameras rolling, if you don't want to answer the first one, you have to answer the second one. So sometimes they're easy. Sometimes they're hard. Shout out to Table Topics. We appreciate the silly little game, but we will defer to you.

36:38 SPEAKER_04 Go ahead, Rocky. All right. So it says, what one fear would you like to conquer?

36:43 SPEAKER_01 Oh, that's easy. Right. Probably. Is it? I don't know. Is it? I don't know. I don't know. That's OK. What am I afraid of? What is your one fear you'd like to conquer?

36:51 SPEAKER_04 Well, do I really want to conquer it, though? That's the thing. It's like my biggest fear is sharks. OK, sure. So I just don't go in the ocean. OK, fair. So maybe I should try going in the ocean a little bit. I mean, you just go in the ocean where there aren't sharks. I mean, but you know what's happening with the orcas. Like, saw that. OK.

37:09 SPEAKER_01 So I surfed all my life until I moved out to the West Coast. They're surfing on the West Coast because the water's a lot colder and stuff. Sharks just started showing up so much closer to shore. I was out one day and I saw a guy get bit on his leg and I was like, that's it. That's a wrap for me. I can't even go in the water anymore without just thinking I got away with it because I've seen too many things where now sharks are coming up on shore, the orcas are coming up on shore because the food is right. There's no food for them in the ocean. It's going away. We haven't been replenishing. So I understand that's a tough one to get out.

37:41 SPEAKER_04 I'm never going to get out. I'm never going to do that. So I don't need to conquer that fear.

37:45 SPEAKER_01 What about you, Maya? Go ahead. What's your fear you want to conquer?

37:48 SPEAKER_03 OK. Conquer a fear. OK. I don't know that I can conquer this fear either. I'm scared of the police and I've always been scared of the police because I haven't had the best incidences around police. And I've seen police brutality pretty much my whole life. That being said, I've had some lovely encounters with the police. So I'm trying to see a new way about that and not take a systemic fear that has definitely plagued me my whole life. Let me think negatively about my relationship with the police because we have to have one. So that's something I hope to find in my own lifetime. But yeah, that's definitely one of my biggest. That's good. And it's a justifiable.

38:37 SPEAKER_01 Totally. I think for me, other than sharks, I think the thing that I probably have to conquer is what I've been working on is almost a sort of a sense of being more vulnerable in the face of the nature of me as an empathetic person is to be vulnerable first. This town will teach you to be vulnerable last. Dead last. Dead ass last. Dead ass last. And the thing is, I've realized how that has then changed me in other ways. And so as I've been backing towards this place is one of the things why we kind of created this as well as a space to sort of be vulnerable because you realize we're all fighting some kind of war and we need community and putting it out there like you did on the film is a way to draw people who are struggling with the same problem and realize that there is help and there is light.

39:33 SPEAKER_04 Well, I mean, with the same question, I think my biggest fear that I can't, it's not something I have to conquer, something that we have to conquer as a society. And the biggest fear is the 2024 election. Yeah. Oh, girl. I am scared as hell. And so we need more people. Wait a minute, cracker can run from jail?

39:50 SPEAKER_01 Wait, I didn't know that. I didn't know that was a thing.

39:52 SPEAKER_04 Watching movies like this, producing movies like this, getting in conversation, getting involved in politics. We can't keep quiet anymore because there's something we learned from the film 1946. The culture wars are very much alive and that's the only thing that seems to be driving the

40:05 SPEAKER_03 They've been alive for quite some time and it definitely seems like at the core of it is white male supremacy. 100%.

40:14 SPEAKER_04 And Christian supremacy. So the next movie.

40:17 SPEAKER_03 But I feel like it's white male supremacy under the cloak of Christianity. Like I don't even think they represent these Christian ideals. So I'm like, uh, I'm having that's the hardest part for me is that if Donald Trump walked the walk that he's trying to sell to these people, I respect it more. But I'm like, you don't do any of these Christian ideals, but you want to condemn all these people because you know, by condemning them, you will have the fervor of these folk back here, but you're a huge hypocrite and you don't care about these people at all.

40:52 SPEAKER_01 It's power. They got three Supreme Court justices for life. That's what it's about. We can't do any better than that. So we're going to end it right there. We're going to put everything about 1946 is brilliant film and our show notes. And again, just Rocky, thank you so much for sharing your story and sharing your time with us. And we appreciate, you know, let us know you were, were you going to say something? What's next?

41:18 SPEAKER_04 We are working on a second film. Are you breaking news here? Breaking news here on Sloppa Pop? And we want to address these issues of power and Christian nationalism, Christian supremacy, and this idea of are we a Christian nation or not? And so the next movie is called God Nation. Okay.

41:35 SPEAKER_01 And she's going to be coming here. One of the first. Okay. You got to come here first. Yeah. One of the first ones. We need to recap. That's right. That's right.

41:41 SPEAKER_03 We'll be doing that one soon. So we also want to point out that you can also lend your support for these issues by supporting the Trevor Project. And for the aforementioned beloved arise.org site, you can also help this film by going to 1946, the movie. And please stay, stay active in this. This fight is just at the tip of the iceberg. So we're going to need all dogs in this fight and we can win if we just keep communicating with each other. So thank you again for that lesson.

42:17 SPEAKER_04 Of course. Thank you. Thank you.

SLAP the Power is written and produced by Rick Barrio Dill and Maya Sykes. Executive producer Duff Ferguson.  Our senior producer is Sabrina Siewert.  Associate producer Bri Coorey. Audio/visual engineering and studio facilities provided by SLAP Studios LA with distribution through our collective home for social progress in art, SLAP the Network. 

If you have any ideas for a show you want to hear or see, or if you would like to be a guest artist on our show, please email us at info at slapthepower.com.