Countering Adultification: Tackling Systemic Oppression and Racial Bias (with Maiya and KC Carnage)

Have you ever considered the alarming rate at which adultification and hypersexualization affects black children, particularly girls? This week, we grapple with this devastating societal issue, guided by the searing personal insights from our guest, KC Carnage. Join us as we unravel the complex implications of adultification, which robs black kids of their innocence and burdens them with expectations far beyond their years. 

Immerse yourself in the chilling case of 16-year-old Ralph Yarl, and let it serve as a poignant reminder of how adultification bias has been claiming innocent lives, especially within the black community. We then detour into the media landscape, dissecting its role in perpetuating harmful stereotypes. We confront systemic oppression head-on, bringing into focus racial bias in healthcare and the propagation of damaging tropes like the "angry black woman." 

As our conversation evolves, we cast a spotlight on mental health and its impact on communities of color. We recount a harrowing journey to Crimea, combining cultural exploration with the stark realities of systemic oppression. We conclude with a reflection on our encounters in Russia and the importance of thorough research before traveling. Engage with us in this vital dialogue, and consider the role you can play in countering adultification bias. Tune in, and let's learn and grow together!

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

We were talking about hyper sexualization of black girls. We were talking about R Kelly and him dealing with Aliyah yeah, yeah, aliyah and these younger girls, and I had a man say to me wait, whoa, whoa, I get what you're saying, but you got to understand at that age what girl didn't want an older boyfriend.

Speaker 2: 0:16

That trope has been used against women for a long time. Jerry Lee Lewis married a 14 year old, Elvis married a 15 year old. But what I noticed is this is especially exploited in black women Because we're over sexualized from jump, In fact, some of the songs coming out in the 60s. There's a. There's a song by the Rolling Stones. It's called Brown Sugar, but the original title I love. It was called Black and it was made about a black woman who was like 17.

Speaker 4: 1:00

All right, all right, all right, welcome back to slap the power. Slap of the power, slap of the power. The world may not need another podcast, but it could definitely use a slap of the power. That's right. That's right. I am your host, rick Barrio Dill.

Speaker 4: 1:15

And I am Maya Sykes, that's right and on the show today, rick finally unpacks his bag from the summer tour. We get into something that I am I am a learner, I am a student on and I am so blessed that Maya has has brought this in it's the adultification of black children, and then a little bit later we do this segment that's gaining in popularity. It's called tour stories. That's right.

Speaker 2: 1:46

You have to do the creepy laugh, or else it just doesn't work.

Speaker 4: 1:48

That's right. It is definitely the count Chocula laugh, or it just isn't.

Speaker 2: 1:53

It's giving me the count from Sesame Street One tour story.

Speaker 4: 1:58

Two tour stories, that's right, so stick around for that. And Maya tell us about the adultification of black children.

Speaker 2: 2:06

Well, we split this up.

Speaker 2: 2:07

We figured that this was a very, very large topic and I brought it to Rick's attention and to our producer's attention because I read a study that was conducted in Georgetown, a Georgetown University, about the adultification of black children, specifically the adultification of black women and the ramifications that it has throughout one person's adult life cycle.

Speaker 2: 2:31

So this study showed that, on average, black children are policed more in schools.

Speaker 2: 2:38

They are, for that reason, not given certain protections because they're policed more in schools and specifically, black female children aren't given access to sex education at the same time as their white counterparts or their non black counterparts and because of that you're seeing, on average, more presence of black female children and juvenile detention centers.

Speaker 2: 3:05

That also stems to the belief that black women have a higher pain threshold. So currently a black woman is four times less likely to get the same opiates as a white woman for the same issues. So what this study showed is that this bias basically colors the way a person's life will etch out and the ways in which they will seek medical attention, police attention if they are victimized in any way, and this is having damning effects. So this study, I think, was very comprehensive because it looked over subjects in different areas and specifically looked in the Georgetown area as a concentration, but there have been other subsequent studies that have looked in the Philadelphia area. There was one such study that looked in the Chicago area and a lot of these statistics and reportings were the same. So I sat down with Casey Carnage, who hosts a show on this network called.

Speaker 4: 4:12

That's it, that's All.

Speaker 2: 4:14

And we sat down and we started talking about some of these biases and how we personally were affected by them, because we both had instances in which we were over sexualized early, which is one of the key components that this study shows, especially because black women are shown to develop physically early and so because of that they have the tendency to be 10 times more over sexualized. So many black women have encountered one over sexualization or one sexual assault before the age of 15.

Speaker 2: 4:51

So just highlighting some of these statistics that I don't think are readily available or readily known, rather more to the point is something that, as a black woman, I'm passionate about, but I'm also looking at the next generation of black females, because they're taught to do things that other females are not taught to do. They're taught to be tougher. They're taught not to exhibit vulnerability or emotion, because when they do, they're seen as weaker. So there's certain things to this that I think have contributed to things like the angry black female myth and different components that just make being a black female tough, and in these areas, it showed that black females had a harder time thriving, and I think it's due to some of these issues. So I wanted to shed a light and show specifically why this is, because I think that there are a lot of misconceptions behind this issue.

Speaker 4: 5:51

Yeah, and thank you for bringing this in. It's a fabulous piece and I appreciate you bringing it to my attention because it's something that I think if more people were aware of it, it would help shine a light on just the systemic issues, especially with black women, that this just are baked in in a way that have gone on far too long and hopefully can you know and create everybody can be a little bit more aware and have some more empathy. And so you know, thank you for bringing the piece in. And I want to say you know it is great to be back from tour. How long have you gone just to throw a curveball into this serious story? But how long have you gone when you've been on a long tour and you've gotten at home and you've stared at your bag at the center of the floor and been like I'm not unpacking?

Speaker 2: 6:46

I feel like this falls into two camps. You're either the person who unpacks immediately and low key I think that person's kind of serial killer ass.

Speaker 4: 6:59

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 6:59

No, I joke, but yeah, I have a couple of friends who will pack, unpack immediately. Like the minute they get home they're unpacking everything and like thoroughly cleaning it and putting it away, and I wish I could be like one of these people, because I pack like a serial killer.

Speaker 2: 7:13

So I should unpack like one right and yet I do not sometimes like I'm okay. I just went on a weekend trip and my bag's still in the middle of the floor, mainly because I have to pack for another thing and I'm like, well, since it's already out, no, but I tried to give myself deadlines to unpack because it could just sit there. Yeah especially if there's dirty clothes in there. Sometimes I just wait till laundry day to unpack.

Speaker 4: 7:38

That's the other thing. Anyway, it's right, it's right and I, but I finally did.

Speaker 2: 7:42

I finally did you know long to take you it well, a couple of weeks, like for me.

Speaker 4: 7:47

I was picking at it for a while, and we were gone for two months.

Speaker 2: 7:51

Though that was a long tour, yeah, yeah longer the tour, the longer it stays in the lever flow, because people don't realize. When you go on tour Every, especially if it's a lengthy tour, you are offered two months. You don't have an ounce of anything in your body. You don't have a mineral of vitamin, you don't have an ounce of blood, nothing. So you are literally just coming home and being like I need sleep lots of it. And then I need nutrients. Like nobody's thinking about unpacking, like I'm thinking about revitalizing my spirit.

Speaker 4: 8:29

You got to take care of your spirit because I Am I am very happy to be back, happy to be here with you, and, again, super glad that to be sort of enlightening this topic. And so when we come back from the break, you're gonna hear Maya's interview with Casey Carnage on the adultification of black children.

Speaker 2: 8:48

Yo, yo, yo, yo, yo yo yo. What's up? It's your girl, maya Sykes, and I am here with slap, the power. Now the world may not need another podcast, but it definitely needs a slap, a slap in its face. And to help me with that slap in its face, I have the beautiful, the effervescent, the quintessentially lovely miss Casey Carnage. And you may know Casey, because Casey host and wonderful podcast of her own called that's it. That's all.

Speaker 1: 9:18

Thank you, maya and thank you, slap the power for having me. I love them. People give you great, great, great introductions, like you know. If you can see me now, I'm blushing through the ground skin.

Speaker 2: 9:29

Let's get into this episode. This episode is a lot to unpack, so we decided to cross to podcast and one. So you're getting a little bit of that's it, that's all. You're getting a little bit of slap the power, and I hope we get some of your reaction. So what we're talking about is the adultification bias that people of color, specifically women of color, for our end face. So let's get into it.

Speaker 2: 9:53

One of the reasons why this is near and dear to my heart is obviously I'm a black woman and obviously I feel like I have dealt with adultification my entire life and there was a part of me that felt as if I was making this up. I was, I was made to feel as if I was exaggerating these experiences, saying that there were microaggressions. I Was, it almost felt like I was being gas lit in a specific way. Right, and it wasn't until some later Years in my life I started seeing studies on Something called adultification and I was like what is that, when I kind of wanted to go down the rabbit hole. So For me, because I come from an academic background as some of you may know, I'm always interested in studies I feel like data can't lie like you can. You can make Any kind of claim about anything you want to, but when we get down to the nuts and bolts of what the statistics say, that doesn't lie. Research exactly, cuz you know, and also black women, are about receipts.

Speaker 1: 10:57

So to me, Okay, I like a receipt. Okay, you can't tell? Me nothing without a receipt.

Speaker 2: 11:03

We collect them. We collect them to present an event. I'm screen shot and I'm all I'm.

Speaker 1: 11:08

Because I feel like, especially when you know you need a receipt for somebody you know you don't need a receipt for, like it's like all automatic. Like you know, this conversation is going right.

Speaker 2: 11:16

Let me screen shot because I feel like I'm gonna need this receipt for one of the things that really sparked my interest about Adultification bias was a study that came out by Georgetown Law Center on poverty and inequity in 2020, and their study showed that black American female children between the ages of five to 14 we're seeing is not only older, but much older than both their non-white and white peers, and because of this bias, black female children were seen as in need of less nurturing, less protection, less support, less comfort, and they were rarely listened to when they did present moments of distress and moments of Sadness or moments of anger. So this fascinated me.

Speaker 1: 12:04

Yeah, and the study also showed that black female children were, we're seeing, more independent, more knowledgeable about adult topics, more specifically, about sexually like sexual experience, and Therefore they needed less sexual education. In the similar study led by professor Philip golf in 2014, black female children were likely perceived as older than their white peers, starting at the age of 10 and 10 is Ridiculous, like think about yourself at 10, like at 10.

Speaker 2: 12:35

I still play with Barbies. I don't know anything, so the fact that I was supposed to be a whole ass adult.

Speaker 1: 12:41

I mean. But it's funny that they say that, because I remember in school, like you know, we start filling out right and you know, you know, with the exception, you know, you know, you know no offense, but like white girls again now getting booties right but they didn't have them right black women were, you know, filling out a little bit more. And I remember being in school and like, if we had a Tang top and our chests were bigger we had to put on a shirt.

Speaker 1: 13:05

But yes, you know, like a little white girl would come in and they would have a crop top stomach out the shortest of shorts because they didn't have, yes, the same body type as we did. Exactly like that study definitely made sense and like it's like. This is like. When we brought up this topic, I actually had to do a little research myself because I was like what do you mean by this? What's going on? But it brought back a lot of Instances. You know, like you read something you're like whoa, that did happen. Yes, I didn't even know that's what's going?

Speaker 1: 13:30

on. I don't know if you have the same experiences I did.

Speaker 2: 13:33

I felt like, wait, one of these things is not like the other, and I would say something. And every time I would say something. I've always been the rabble rouser, like I just can't help it. I guess that's just how I was raised and it is what it is. But every time I would say something to a teacher or something, I was always dismissed. I was always made to feel like, oh well, that's just. You know, you're Maybe, but it's. It's not the way you think I always got.

Speaker 1: 13:59

It's not the way you think we're talking about hyper sexualization Of black girls. We were talking about our Kelly and him dealing with Aliyah yeah, yeah, aliyah and these younger girls. Oh my god, and I hate to say it was a black man. I had a man say to me Wait, whoa, whoa, I get what you're saying, but you got to understand at that age what girl didn't want an older boyfriend.

Speaker 2: 14:19

But that trope has been like women, since, oh, I mean that trope has been used against women for a long time. Like, jerry Lee Lewis married a 14 year old, elvis married a 15 year old. This isn't old, but what I noticed is this is especially Exploited in black women because we're over sexualized from jump, in fact, some of the songs coming out in the 60s by David Bowie, by Aerosmith, by the Rolling Stones, there's there's a song by the Rolling Stones. It's called brown sugar, but the original title of it was called black pussy and it was made about a black woman. It was like 17. Okay, in the education system, for example, this bias of Black children just automatically knowing how to be adults has had a really damning effect. So this Georgetown study shows that black female children are less likely to receive Leadership opportunities in school, leading to less scholarship and less scholastic opportunities on a national level, which I find really important, given that Affirmative action was effectively ended Right and see the study that they did for Harvard.

Speaker 1: 15:27

They're going after the legacy.

Speaker 2: 15:29

But they should have gone after the legacy and I what I'm the part that has me shook.

Speaker 2: 15:34

It Right is that if you look at the group that's helped by affirmative action the most it's white women, and yet white women are its strongest opponents, right? So there's this bias that if you are a woman of color and you received higher education of any kind, you got it through affirmative action. I even experienced that, even though I didn't get in because of affirmative action. In fact, I checked I didn't check my ethnicity when I applied to Yale and I got in as a national merit scholar. I had 17 scholarships, but the entire time I was there it was always assumed that I got in because of affirmative action and I was treated as such. But then I saw the students of color that did get in because of affirmative action, and affirmative action just helped them get to this higher plane that they succeeded in by leaps and bounds. The only reason why they might not have initially gotten into those schools was because they hadn't been taught by their high school how to take a white standardized test.

Speaker 2: 16:42

Oh absolutely mother sent me to a school that was thirty thousand dollars a year, because one of the foremost things they taught me was how to take standardized test. It's one of the reasons why it's well in school.

Speaker 1: 16:53

And it's the crazy part about it, because you know they always talk about how standard I testing is definitely on a scale right, and I feel like even growing up in school, like I ended up like okay, so I hated standardized testing was very smart in school. I hate it. Stand as that to the point where it was so tedious that I would just fill in. I was filling the bubbles. I mean, I got into a great school, whatever, I would fill in the bubbles and you know we would have these bad said they put you in these classes, right, right, but for me I feel like that's a psychology of it

Speaker 1: 17:19

is that I felt like, as parents are, as you know, higher educators who are with children, I feel like there was never a gap on like okay, what is the valuation? Why aren't you, why aren't you testing like this or why and I could tell you I was bored like them tests we. It doesn't apply to real life really. Yeah, maybe the math section, but you know you get to like language and you're talking about these stories that don't quite match up to Know what I know and what. So I don't know. You know like they've talked about it being unbalanced. You know they always talk about it.

Speaker 2: 17:51

I'm gonna tell you right now. I went to a school and my mother got me an ancillary tutor. Okay, now I went to a school that was 30 grand Annually. I had a partial scholarship, so my mom voluntarily took the bus for six years so that I could go and she could spend the rest of her money for me to go to the school and shout out to crossroads, because they helped Me a lot like what's up crossroads, you know row runners in the house anyway. But one of the things that they did that gave us a huge leg up was they made us learn Latin from 8th, 7th, 8th and part of your ninth grade year. What that did was it taught me the root words of Most of the big words that you see on the SATs. So even with those root words, right, and knowing what those stems were, if there was a Word that looked crazy and I didn't know what it meant, but I could pick out a V? Er or a V I are, or an I L-I-R or this, and I knew what the root of that meant, that I could take an educated guess. And that's the thing that we're not giving students of color that go to private, go to public schools. We're not giving those things. Those things are specifically given to people who can afford to go to the $30,000 a year private schools. So your standardized testing already goes to A do you speak standard.

Speaker 2: 19:23

There's an author that I loved, who unfortunately committed suicide, named David Foster Wallace and he wrote this essay.

Speaker 2: 19:31

He used to write for Parade Magazine and he wrote this really, really huge book called Infinite Jest, which was pretty much his masterpiece. But I think that a lot of his greatest work was in the essays that he wrote. And he wrote an essay about being an English teacher in inner city schools and he said I, as a white professor, as a white English teacher in these schools, had to tell these black children listen, I need you to learn how to speak what I'm gonna call standard white English, because on these statistic tests, on these scholastic tests that are gonna determine your future, if you don't know how to speak standard white English, you're going to fail, and I hate that I'm the one that has to tell you this. That was so powerful for me to read. I remember reading that essay. I wanna say it came out in the late 90s in Parade, because he wrote for Parade for a while and for all of you out there, please look up David Foster Wallace.

Speaker 1: 20:31

he was a genius and seeing that this person decided that his most effective tool for teaching these inner city kids was telling them the truth, Well, it's funny because I grew up in a very suburban city in New Jersey Montclair, new Jersey and so our public school, our public school, is pretty much private schools, and so I mean we had everything, we had literally every resource, but at the same time, like you said, the standardized testing, the curriculum, it wasn't geared to a universal basis.

Speaker 1: 21:03

It was what he was saying in his essay. So when it came down to the testing, the scores showed you know what I mean Like you have things that we are not being tested, or a lot of kids were getting pushed by just to get them out of the school because, yeah, we had the resources you had, the school was prestigious, but our school was based on our wins in sports you know what I mean. Our numbers like Montclair was very big about numbers so teachers would pass these children the state to keep it at a higher esteem and that really wasn't necessarily helping us. It was giving us tools that we needed there and to say but it was more like to me now that I look back on it it was more about the picture.

Speaker 1: 21:42

I posted the actual child and the differences in child, because we were a very diverse community, so there was no reason for our curriculum not to be as diverse as the community was. But when you think about standardized testing, we're talking about the state, right, we're not talking about the city, we're talking about the state and other parts of New Jersey. Either it was very affluent or it was very poor.

Speaker 2: 22:07

There's no middle. There was no middle. I feel like the eradication of the middle class in America started in New Jersey, quite frankly, and I feel like it started in New Jersey and Detroit respectively, because those communities had burgeoning, thriving communities and all of a sudden, when you had white flight and then when all of the manufacturing left, it became the haves and the have nots. Statistics don't lie. Black people are owning homes at a rate of 35%, against white people 64% and Latino families I wanna say 44%. I'll look up those numbers, but I think I'm in the right ballpark. In fact, I'm pretty sure, because I just looked this up yesterday. But I feel like this adultification bias is super important to talk about, because I've seen a rash of shootings at black children and they're adultifying.

Speaker 1: 23:05

I mean, what was the worst? I mean this bias is also claiming lies. I mean the killing of like Taymar Rice, Trayvon Martin and even the recent shooting of a 16-year-old, Ralph Yarl, shows that the black male children are most likely to be viewed as threats rather than children Right and that child was trying to pick up his little brother.

Speaker 1: 23:22

Little brother, he got this old man sitting at the door talking about whatever. It's not guilty. I'm just like how does that make sense? If this kid, if this little girl scout, little Sally, would have walked up to your door, would you shot her Exactly?

Speaker 4: 23:34

A little.

Speaker 1: 23:34

Bobby walked up to your door. Would you shot him? And when you look at Ralph Yarl, I mean he looks like a child. Exactly that he looks like a child.

Speaker 4: 23:42

He looks like he's younger than 16.

Speaker 1: 23:45

And this child you felt like this child was so much a threat. And this man, we looked at the thing, he was five nine, yeah he was. And it was five, eight, yes, around five, eight. So five, eight, five nine.

Speaker 2: 23:56

And what's his name? And what's his name? Asalant said oh well, I just saw this menacing black figure at my door and I'm like you saw what I mean. Maybe the man, because he's older, like maybe he had cataracts or something like. I don't know what his vision was about.

Speaker 1: 24:10

But I feel like but in 2023, a little black boy shows up at your door and you decide to pull out a gun and decides to pull out a gun and shoot him Because it's not like he was like give me all your like.

Speaker 2: 24:20

I could see if he spoke in a menacing tone in the dark when he was like hi there, I'm here to pick up Like for real you heard hi there, I'm here to pick up my brother Clack, clack, clack for real Like for real.

Speaker 2: 24:30

Yeah, I mean, here's the thing. This is heavy for a lot of reasons. Like, okay, ralph Yarl's assailant, his grandson went on record as saying, yeah, my grandfather's really racist. So for that man, who has a history of racist incidents, to be able to use a defense of, oh, I just saw a menacing black figure and it'd be taken at gospel. Until many people had to disprove it. Like how come it was taken at gospel? Like why did it take so many people to have to disprove this? And it was easily disproven. And that's the part for me is why is it that, in order to this is why black women collect receipts, now that I think about it, because we're always having to defend actions.

Speaker 1: 25:18

Oh, I'm gonna send a white lady email All day. I'm gonna send a white lady email because let me tell you something you can talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, and I always say this too. Also, too, if anything also happens. You guys do know that there are phone records that you can't retrieve, facts. There are phone records you can retrieve get you a nice private eye, call the police station, whatever you need to do. All that stuff is in the cloud.

Speaker 2: 25:39

Yo, and I remember when that was on a lawn order they used to call it the luds and I was like get the luds, Get the luds get the luds.

Speaker 1: 25:45

Because here's the thing you never know how people are going to take things and when it comes down to the adultification of our black community, of our children. Even talking about, you know, segueing to like hyper sexualization. Right, we were talking about how black girls they fill out a little faster than white women. And we're hyper sexualized in the media. In the media, it's like whether we're projected in the movies. What are we doing? We're either the hoe.

Speaker 2: 26:13

We're either the madam, we're the temptress the mistress.

Speaker 1: 26:17

The mistress, I mean we had the provocateur. We were like don't get me wrong, like scandal was my shit, Don't get me wrong. Shout out to Carrie Washington, shout out to all of them. But what was it about? It was about this power of power being deemed down and knocked down a notch to be a mistress to the president, like, how are we in a world where, okay, we're gonna give you a lead role to be this woman that's?

Speaker 2: 26:37

gonna take care of shit, but we're also gonna be like that's also part of the reason why she had her power.

Speaker 2: 26:41

So part of the reason why she had her power was because she subjugated herself to be side chick.

Speaker 2: 26:48

And I looked at okay, I had this conversation with a friend of mine about online dating and my friend was like you really need to get on online dating. And I said you know, a few years ago, just as a social experiment, I made dummy profiles on all of the popular sites. I made three dummy profiles and in one of them I said who I was I'm a very curvy black lady. On the other two I said on one I was Latina, one I was white and it was I mean three, rather when I was Latina, when I was white, and one I was Asian. And on the one that I was Asian and on the one that I was Latina, I put my actual dimensions, but on the one that I was white, I kept it pretty generic and just kept myself in the middle of the road and I got more hits on the Latina version of me and the Asian version of me than the real version of me, and the white version of me eclipsed all those.

Speaker 1: 27:49

Wow.

Speaker 2: 27:50

By, like and keep in mind on those four profiles I didn't have a photo, so these were just people who were willing to accept that I'm a 5'5. I put that I was 5'5, 189 pounds on one. Another one, I put I was 5'5, 100 and no 212 pounds. Another one I put I was 5'5, 195 pounds and then I put my real weight. Happy, I came down a bit. So right now I'm 5'5 and I'm 193 pounds.

Speaker 2: 28:23

Right, I did this three years ago. So what I found is interesting is that the actual dimensions of me and the actual representation of me got 40% less traction than a made-up version of me if I was white, latina or Asian. So if you're in a country in which you as a woman, the class you're in, is already relegated to the bottom of the barrel and you're already seen as an option but not a choice, but you're over sexualized, starting in preschool, what are you supposed to do? Because I'm always hearing this narrative of you need to be able to pull yourself up by your bootstraps and get into things because of your own merit, and I did that and I was still treated as if I didn't.

Speaker 1: 29:14

Okay, so let's talk about that. You're talking about. You just made a point about how they're supposed to tell us, you know, suck it up, buck it up, pull you up on your bootstraps, but then, at the same time, when we try to do that, what do they label us as the angry black woman?

Speaker 2: 29:24

The angry black woman and it's becoming a thing where statistics again, statistics aren't lying. Black women are four times less likely to receive opiate medication for pain than any other woman group Asian, latina, white, persian, doesn't freaking matter. Black women are getting less neonatal care. They're getting like by huge, huge statistics. This doesn't stop if you're famous or wealthy. Wanda Sykes and one of her specials it's a special called Not Normal and she talked about what the state of the country was and she talked about having a double mastectomy as a famous person, a white woman, a white woman next to her was given opioids and percocet for her double mastectomy. You know what they gave Wanda Sykes Ibuprofen, and she talked about that.

Speaker 2: 30:28

And I'm so grateful that somebody decided I'm going to use my platform to talk about this because when I've been talking about this, I'm perceived as somebody who's complaining, whining over, exaggerating things, picking out microaggressions and making them macroaggressions. I've heard that a bunch. But then, when I'm going down to these statistics, I'm looking at okay, the racial bias and prescription opioids. According to the New England Journal of Medicine in 2021, showed that white patients received 36% more pain medications by dosage, even if a white person and a black person were prescribed the same opiate. I'm like, okay, I'm saying this and doesn't this alarm anybody? And the fact that it doesn't? And I'm out here by myself on an island being like, hey, what about black women? I'm tired of that. So we're just supposed to come out the womb and know how to take care of ourselves no sexuality, know how to be the most unvulnerable, and we're given this trope of. We're supposed to be not vulnerable and hard from birth, but then you want to label us the angry black women.

Speaker 1: 31:45

I'm like you made us that, you made us that and then gave us a label, but it goes back to like we're talking about the adultification of children, right? I actually looked it up on Wikipedia and they were talking about how, even back in slavery, that they were giving adult jobs to children starting at age 10, adult jobs to children, and so when you're giving these jobs to children, that is, you know, like systematic oppression, right, systematic anything.

Speaker 1: 32:11

This is what you teach your child this. You teach your child this, even going into now, modern day children, the whole idea of, oh, when you're 18, because they classify you as an adult legally, that doesn't mean you're adult.

Speaker 2: 32:24

And nobody's showing you how to be an adult, because there's already a bias that you are one out the gate.

Speaker 1: 32:30

How are you? Supposed to learn how to be an adult and then, on top of that, on top of that, our school system aren't even teaching us how to be an adult, like they're not teaching us you know taxes balance show check. They're not taking back in your check, what's going to happen when you go? And like you remember that study about a lady went to appraise her house or she went to sell her house. It was a black couple. They went to sell their house and they gave a low rate on what they would.

Speaker 1: 32:52

You know appraisal values they had their friend as a white person, go and do the same thing, and they gave them almost double the wait a minute.

Speaker 2: 33:00

I remember that was actually because that family they came on HGTV. I remember exactly what I'm talking about and it was deeper than that, because they gave them this low ball estimate. Their friend suggested that they do a $600 paint remodel. Right, so they repainted the house for about 600 bucks, then had the white friend go repaint at the house for them, go do the appraisal, and it was almost double.

Speaker 2: 33:25

And they were like wait, wait wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute, and I look at that even to this day, because getting credit ratings for families of color, especially ones that present as African American, is harder by like 50% Also, too, even like you know the census right, why everything that you have signed up for?

Speaker 1: 33:49

why do I have to let you know what I am Like, if it really doesn't matter, if we're all created equal, if we're doing this, why do I have to check a box and tell you who I am? That, to me, is already giving some type of bias. I always say prefer not to say, I don't tell them my sex and I don't tell them what race I am, because there's no reason why this should matter.

Speaker 2: 34:09

I already know I'm going to get on either side, so I'm like I don't want to give you the ammunition.

Speaker 1: 34:16

Because that's really what it is. It's a credit to look at us. Okay, this is the black person, this is the white person, this is the Asian person. Okay, cool, they're like, I feel like they're in the matrix and they're like putting everything on the wall and they're just moving stuff around. I think you were saying earlier about being taught the, the, the wider words, or whatever, to be able to, you know, succeed a little, you know further, right, and you think about how, like we talk about all the time, how, like there are certain black men, certain black women, they have to play chameleon, like we're deemed as. Oh, you're not like that.

Speaker 2: 34:51

I was always told that and it used to make me confused, and I know that I don't have a good poker face when I'm confused. So my face just looks like a big question.

Speaker 1: 35:01

A question.

Speaker 2: 35:03

They would say things like you're such a credit to your race and my face would automatically be like the fuck.

Speaker 1: 35:08

Or they'll say something weird, but like well, you know what I mean? You're not. You're not a part of that.

Speaker 2: 35:13

But what Get it in these codes? I mean I especially, I mean I hate to put Yale under the bus like that, but I got that the most when I was at Yale because I would go to functions and I'd sing or something. And somebody would come up to me who got in on academic merit. I didn't get in because of music, scholarships or whatever. I got in academically. And they'd come up to me and say things like you know, the Negro does nothing better than sing and dance. And I'd have to because I'm the only, I'm one of six black people in the entire room of maybe 200 folk. I have no ally ship, right, I have no safety net. So first my face looks like a question mark and then I have to figure out how to take that question mark off my face in fear that I'm going to be offensive and that I have no place to run.

Speaker 2: 36:08

Right but how can I say how angry and how sad that makes me without appearing like I'm the angry black female trope that was created long before I even existed? The other thing that I notice is that my white peers many times take my words that express displeasure about an event, a thing, something.

Speaker 2: 36:38

I don't like as anger and I'm like okay, I didn't shout at you, I didn't call you to me. Anger has like a I'm so mad. And maybe anger has different faces for different things. I acknowledge that. But the few times I feel like I've been angry, I feel like I came in like what I got all the angry facts. You know what I'm saying and when I have, when I come in the room being like I don't like this, I'm still perceived as me being you know the anger emoji. From what was that movie inside?

Speaker 1: 37:12

out, inside out, and you talk about like you know, we talk about this the angry black women. We also talk about the strong black women, right.

Speaker 4: 37:19

You have to burden black women Right.

Speaker 1: 37:20

But the adultification it gives you that aspect of like. You have to be strong because here's the thing when things happen to generations and generations and generations, they get passed down through generations and you have to choose to be able to break these cycles right, and there's some of us that make it out of our family. We think about like who you are in your family, correct. You think about what you have done to maybe break these cycles, and there's some people who continue the cycles. That's what that's, that's what we have been instilled in us, that this is the way it has to be.

Speaker 1: 37:48

Some people are content, Some people are not going to ask the question and they're just going to go with what has been the norm and like, even so, I think about like mental health. Right, how have we been dealing with our mental health? Is why in our community, it doesn't get talked about a lot. Like if you think about, like if I was to ask my grandfather you know, resting peace like, yeah, you want to go to a psychologist, I ain't going to no psychologist. Like whatever, that's white shit, that's some white shit, but it's also not even necessarily white shit, it's just it is. But it's also one of those things where people haven't taught us that it's okay to take care of our mind, because we still can play medical shit with white shit.

Speaker 2: 38:27

And because we conflate medical shit with white shit, we don't think we have access. And so then we create mythology to say we don't need access.

Speaker 1: 38:35

Right, we don't need access, and then our coping mechanisms is what we're not going or we need Oprah and Jesus and that's gonna make it okay. Jesus and then also being suppressed, like suppress, like you know, the rate of black girls or at a higher, for you know, middle, it's the highest because we get burdened, because not only are we taking care of the world most of the time, we're also taking care of our men. You know what I mean, Because they lock up our men, they, you know they look at the fire the Delta fire men lock up our men, they, they adultify our children.

Speaker 1: 39:07

You know they. You know it's, it's. It's a system that has been created for the black family that has literally almost pretty much is destined for us to fail at it, the black family is a very interesting is that we keep succeeding on that oh my God Like the resilience but it's like the resilience like that we keep and as black people, we keep pushing this narrative.

Speaker 2: 39:31

You have to be resilient and I'm like what does this mean? What is and what does resilience mean in this day and age? Because, okay, I'm just looking again. I I hate to keep saying this in this episode, but you're going to hear me say this a lot Statistics don't lie. Black men between the ages of 18 and 35, their suicide rate has almost doubled in less than five years. Something is happening and something is wrong. Something is wrong. I'm seeing men I know not make it to 35, not make it to 40.

Speaker 1: 40:12

Because people are not talking about health like, like mental health. Mental health is one of the biggest issues. That is a non-factor or talked about a non-factor in our communities, like and one.

Speaker 2: 40:25

We don't have medical support for Medical support.

Speaker 1: 40:27

Oh my God, we don't have medical support for and if you think about it as a people, we have been so oppressed, we have literally an obstacle every decade that we have to go through. And it's just like as a people, if I honestly feel like as a people, if we weren't, if we didn't get together and, you know, rally around each other the way that we did and move the way that we did, they would eradicate us. You know what I mean?

Speaker 2: 40:52

They would and even when you ask for help, like there's a, really I consider my, I call her my sister and I'm not going to say her name because I just want to have her anonymity if she needs it. For the specific issue, After the birth of her fifth child, she was in a marriage that wasn't supporting her. She was in a dead-end job, she was depressed and she was experiencing postpartum. So she went to her OBGYN and she went to her local hospital and she said hey, I'm having a tough time, I'm feeling these feelings. I'm feeling feelings of depression, of chaos, that I don't know how to mitigate.

Speaker 2: 41:31

I've looked up that this may be postpartum. I'm not sure how to support this. I'm not sure what to do and rather than saying, Okay, here is access to maybe some medication that might help you or some support groups that might help you, they committed her. I had to go get her, but they, they committed her. They 51-50ed her because she said I'm I'm a black woman having a hard time with five children and at the time her oldest child was like 14 and her youngest child had just been born. So she had a huge gap. She's doing the best she can and it's not as if she's presenting as a single black woman. She was presenting as a black woman with a college education, married and they still committed her.

Speaker 1: 42:20

It's crazy Cause I had a friend that was just talking about this the other day. She has Crohn's disease and I guess she was having a flare up or something. She went to the doctor, I mean she went to the ER and she was crying and she was like something is wrong with me, Like I literally can't breathe. There's a flare up and they kept saying, oh, you're going to be fine.

Speaker 4: 42:38

You're fine, you're fine, you're fine, you're fine, you're fine.

Speaker 1: 42:40

You're fine. You're fine, you're fine. They finally, after hours, got her into a room to see somebody. She's like are you going to give me, like, some type of steroid or you're going to give me some type of medication to, like, ease the pain? They wouldn't give it to her. And the medicine they finally gave to her, they wouldn't tell her what it was. I think they put it in her IV and it gave her an allergic reaction, didn't go through what was going on, didn't go through her charts or anything like that, and gave it. She's like I actually think I have a lawsuit on my hand because the medicine that they gave me, that I didn't ask for, nor did anybody talk to me about it A nurse came and just administered it to me without checking her medical history at all.

Speaker 1: 43:18

She was like she showed me the pictures. Her lip was flared up, Her eye was flared up. I said you didn't talk to anybody and she was like the funny thing was is that unfortunately, there was administrators, the nurses and stuff like that were women of color, and she felt like they weren't on her side. She felt like you're not my boss. You know what I mean. So I'm going to side with the doctors that are and you know what I mean Like the people that are paying me. So she was like I felt really misplaced as a black woman in that hospital.

Speaker 2: 43:48

You have no allies. You have no allies, but that's what I mean. Like I remember that one Yale experience I had where somebody was like the Negro does nothing better than sing and dance, and I looked around the room and what I saw were black people that were going to side with the white person saying the Negro does nothing better than sing and dance, because that they decided that that was their protection.

Speaker 1: 44:07

And they're coping mechanism.

Speaker 2: 44:09

And so they'd rather throw me under a bus and let me die. Then we'll go back.

Speaker 1: 44:15

Let's go back. We have the house Negroes and we have the field Negroes. So even if we think about just that, that dynamic, even if it's not that right.

Speaker 1: 44:24

And the trope of that dynamic about the separation that they have put us through since we arrived here in America, has still been passed down, like you know what I mean. It's still been passed on that same mentality of there are some you know black people that are going to side with others because I'm comfortable, they like me, I'm good, right, I'm not like that. And the crazy part about it, they don't even understand that that is a part of a mental thing, that the fact that they have ingrained that in us so much so that you feel like, at any given point, if they had to choose between them and you, that you think they're going to choose you too. They're not ever, ever.

Speaker 2: 45:05

And because I've known that for. But I've been in so many scenarios in which I clocked this early and I was the one person of color that said, ayo, they ain't checking for us and maybe we should examine some things, because they ain't checking for us and they should be making them a lot of money. And in at least half of those, scenarios.

Speaker 1: 45:26

I was vilified. I mean, we've always made the money, I mean we picking cotton. But again.

Speaker 2: 45:31

When I was the person who brought that up, half of the people of color kind of not vilified me, but they were like, oh well, that's your problem.

Speaker 1: 45:39

I was like, well, that's kind of your problem too, but it's also like it was sad about it. That's not even they fault.

Speaker 2: 45:45

I know, and I couldn't even be mad at them.

Speaker 1: 45:47

And that is the saddest part about it is that I have to be cool with those people because I know that Right the, the ideology around it is not even the slave mentality.

Speaker 2: 45:57

It's not even their fault it goes back to Sally Hemings, jesus, like I would say.

Speaker 1: 46:02

I would say in this situation, especially when it comes to our children. In order to break this cycle, we have to really be able to talk about the issue, we have to identify it and it has to be a minute that is happening. But I will say this I know that you know we're coming towards the end of this. I want to say this because I, you know, on my show I like to leave messages and I would say any ally that's out there, do the work. Don't just assume because you have a Black friend, you understand. Actually, do the work, because it takes all of us. It really takes all of us, because we're here in America together, we're here in this nation together, we're here in the world together and if you're choosing to say, I am going to stand with you, I'm going to be with you. Do the work.

Speaker 2: 46:48

And also understand that the allies that are asking you to do the work are not asking for an advantage over you. They are asking for the same handshake that you have access to, and that's it, and that's what matters.

Speaker 2: 47:04

So I just wanted to point out that we are going to do this as a three-part exercise and a three-part episode, because I feel like exercise and episode need to come together. The exercise is breaking down the stereotypes and tropes that you think are associated with adultification bias, and I wanted to start with the two of us, and I really appreciate what you're adding here, because, as somebody who's known you for a while, I feel like you have a vocal point of view that needs to be showcased for how cogent it is, but how also relatable it is. That's really important.

Speaker 1: 47:48

Absolutely.

Speaker 2: 47:48

Absolutely. And. I appreciate that and I thank you.

Speaker 1: 47:51

Well, thank you for having me. I really enjoyed it. A sister podcast to our network. Thank you so much.

Speaker 2: 47:58

And remember slap the power. Y'all Slap the power.

Speaker 4: 48:03

All right Before we go. That was incredible, maya. Thank you again for bringing this to light and I appreciate and shout out to Casey again for this Well thank you for being open to allowing this topic to happen.

Speaker 2: 48:19

I know that, as not a black woman, it could be really intimidating to go oh my God, I don't know anything about this and it's scary. But I think that one of the reasons why I wanted to have these conversations is because sometimes, when I say things that happen to me as a black woman, people don't believe me, and I think that if you know that this happens to a lot of black women, then you'll think about it differently. But we can't have that conversation if you're too scared to have it.

Speaker 2: 48:44

So, thank you for being unafraid and willing to let the topic just be and let the facts speak for themselves.

Speaker 4: 48:52

Yeah, and I say this a lot If it weren't for black women, I actually think right now the Republic would be lost, and I know that is a bold statement, but we owe there's just nobody.

Speaker 4: 49:06

Nobody has carried more weight in this country ever than a black female, and I feel like I just feel I hate using the word fortunate, but I do feel I love what we're putting together in that respect on trying to lift things like this up, because and thank you for saying that it is vital that we bring a lot of these issues to light and lift them up, and I was like well, what is somebody like me? I don't have anything on this episode, but to learn, and so I appreciate you doing that, but I do. You brought it to my attention too. Yeah, no, I do have something to bring, and that is the perspective of somebody who did not know about this Right, and just how real these statistics are, how true this is, and to try and if we can in any way shoot up some more empathy and some more understanding and some more trying to make this a more equal situation.

Speaker 2: 50:14

Facts.

Speaker 4: 50:15

Yeah, so, and we're gonna do what we normally do. We got our chocolate cake and your kale all at the same time. We're gonna do a segment called Tour Stories, that's right. That's right. And what do you got today?

Speaker 2: 50:28

You got a tour story today, yeah you know, again, there's gonna be a reoccurring theme here, and that is that I work for a lot of people who make you sign some hefty NDAs, so we're gonna take that yeah, which you, which you. So, in this particular tour story, I inadvertently had to flee from my life while I was in Egypt, so we were performing for a Russian billionaire and we, as you do, because there's a lot of that you'd be- surprised.

Speaker 2: 51:05

And we were unaware that at the time the student rebellion was about to happen. So we were supposed to be there an extra three days and at the last minute our tour manager just happened to be in the hotel bar and he saw cameraman from C-Span and CNN and he was like what's going on?

Speaker 2: 51:23

He was like and they said you know, you didn't know. Yeah, the students are about to rebel. Like it's all on the blah blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah blah. And he was like, no, I had no idea. So he inadvertently wired to the tour manager, to the tour managing group, and got them to give him some money and he put notices under all of our doors saying change of plan, because we were supposed to stay in Egypt an extra three days and we had these baller rooms and a guide that was going to take us to all the baller stuff.

Speaker 1: 51:55

Like I was retty.

Speaker 2: 51:56

Like I was retty, I had outfit choices.

Speaker 3: 51:59

Like she was here for it. You're going to see me at the Sphinx later.

Speaker 2: 52:02

Listen I was here for it and he put this thing under our door saying change of plan. We have to leave at 7 am tomorrow. So we're all complaining being like what the he was like it's a change of plan. He was so gangster, he used to be in the military. So he definitely had that tone. We were just like sir.

Speaker 2: 52:18

So we get up. Of course, the artist that I'm with was an hour late, so we didn't leave till like 8.30. But we get into these like military transport vehicles and we ride for quite some time and then we rode to like basically what was, I think, a military base, and we flew on these like plans where what no amenity, what no peanuts wasn't no like chickens running up and down, so you could pick a crappy movie to watch, like it was like, okay, at 100 hours, we're going to jump out this plane.

Speaker 2: 52:48

So, we had to put these seat belts on. I have never been more terrified in my life and I was like what do these? White people have me going to. So finally we got to Morocco and then we just finished out the tour from there, but we didn't know that we were fleeing this until we got to Morocco. And then we found out that there was this whole like student uprising and all this other stuff. So, yeah, we missed that by like a day and some change. Oh my God.

Speaker 4: 53:15

Well, that is a, that is a, that is a horror story. For sure, mine, I'm going to keep in the Russian billionaire theme because you know because it's a theme. It is a theme. It is a theme. So not too long ago we got to play in Moscow. We were basically playing a Russian oligarch 60th birthday party and you know, as the Russian oligarchs tend to do, they have a lot of their security, they're security detail, they're FSB guys. Right.

Speaker 4: 53:42

So all these guys are FSB, it's full on thing, like you. They gave us instructions ahead of time Don't look at his wife or the table with the women on the other side, which I can only presume was his girlfriends. Right, and it was like don't look, don't you know, don't hit them, or nothing. And so we're like, ok, that's cool, that's fine, that's fine.

Speaker 2: 54:01

We but how do you like?

Speaker 4: 54:02

not OK how do you do a show? And you're like.

Speaker 2: 54:05

I'm just like I'm singing this, like you know, powerful ballad. I'm just going to not look at you.

Speaker 4: 54:09

Not look at the super, super hot lady that's like right in front of you, right, but we, you know, we did it, ty, ty killed it everything. We get back to the. We get back to the lobby where we're taking you know kind of pictures afterwards and our keyboard player, brian London, shout out. Brian London, he, just one of the most beautiful human beings on planet Earth, I think. He got up, he was done with the gig. He went upstairs. He was never wearing a shirt. You would never see Brian with a shirt. So he's down there and we're taking it and it was like, hey, let's get some pictures. We get some pictures. And Brian had his phone. He sets the phone down and right next to, I guess, one of the FS, one of the security guard guys phones, iphones, and they kind of look the same. At a certain point we take these pictures. Brian goes back up to the room. He had accidentally taken the one security guys.

Speaker 4: 54:59

So, yeah, phone. And then it was like where the fuck is this phone? Shit's about to go real bad for y'all If you don't produce this phone right now. And we're like where the fuck is this phone. So we call up bring up to the room of Brian. You got a phone. He's like, he's looking at it. He's like, oh yeah, this isn't even my phone. It looks like my phone. It's not my phone. They bring it down. They detained us for like 15 minutes while they did a sweep of the phone to make sure that he didn't download anything. And for about 15 minutes we were sitting there like how big of a shit sandwich are we about to eat right now? Yeah, no, and so luckily Russia don't die.

Speaker 2: 55:34

This is why y'all are on a no flex zone right now. Like we just can't go until y'all figure it out because y'all are not going to be scaring. Y'all ain't going to Britney Griner me. Like no, I am not doing it.

Speaker 2: 55:46

And it's become like that, Like when you go there the last time I was there, nobody told us that like you couldn't go into Crimea because that was a Russian occupied territory. So we get there and like none of our credit cards or anything out there. So I'm like none of my credit cards work. I can't take out money, I'm just here.

Speaker 4: 56:05

Hmm, yeah right, yeah, no, it's a it's a yeah, y'all need to figure it out.

Speaker 2: 56:10

Russia, that's right.

Speaker 4: 56:11

So be careful on your trips with Russian oligarchs in Russia and Maya. Thanks again for the interview, for the, for bringing this topic topic in and you know, if you guys please comments, if you have anything to say about the episode, leave us in the comments and if you have ideas for a show or anything like that, as always, make sure to hit us up on the website. Slap the powercom and we will see you next week. At info, at slap the powercom.