2Cups Café
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2Cups Café
The Soul Roll: Martial Arts, Cancer, and Spiritual Resilience
Damon Lee's journey from hardened martial artist to cancer warrior reveals profound lessons about resilience, faith, and the transformative power of authentic brotherhood.<br><br>Starting with his early training in Shaolin Kung Fu under Master Maurice Freeman, Damon describes an unusually brutal training environment where students practiced strikes and grappling on concrete without protective equipment—a world away from the padded mats and safety protocols of modern martial arts schools. This foundation of physical toughness would later serve him through life's harshest trials.<br><br>The conversation takes a powerful turn when Damon shares his experience receiving a stage 4 mantle cell lymphoma diagnosis at age 39. With raw honesty, he recounts his initial reaction—laughing when the doctor asked if he believed in God, knowing he had been "living foul" through a destructive period following his divorce. Particularly moving is his description of taking public transportation to chemotherapy treatments, often walking miles to the hospital while wearing surgical masks and dealing with the physical devastation of treatment alone.<br><br>What elevates this conversation beyond a typical survival story is Damon's profound spiritual insights gained through suffering. His realization that God wasn't punishing him—that many consequences flowed from his own choices—represents a mature faith perspective rarely articulated so clearly. "I felt as though God didn't like me," he confesses, before explaining how his understanding of divine love transformed through his ordeal.<br><br>Perhaps most valuable is his observation about men's need to receive love, not just give it. After years of teaching men to love their wives "as Christ loved the church," Damon suggests many faith communities neglect teaching men how to accept and experience love themselves—a deficiency he now works to address through his connections with other men.<br><br>Ready to be inspired by a story of resilience, redemption, and brotherhood that transcends typical conversations about martial arts or faith? Listen now and discover how one man's toughest battles led to his greatest insights about love, forgiveness, and what it truly means to live with purpose after facing death.
Follow Allen C. Jackson - @2cupschronicles
I'm gonna go, I'm gonna do a little countdown okay five, four, three, two, and welcome back to two cups cafe, where I'm your host, alan C Jackson, and who I have coming through for a high quality caffeinated conversation today is none other than my good friend Damon Lee. What what's up? D.
Speaker 3:What's going on? Al, thank you for having me.
Speaker 1:I appreciate you man, no doubt, no doubt, man. Man, it's been a long time since we connected, man, and I just wanted to just sit down, man. We go back years and years, man, yes, we do you were my Shaolin brother man. We came up in the day for me but I know you kept some things going over the years. Man, just uh, can you tell the people, man, what, what, what interested you at first starting to do martial arts? Okay, so, originally.
Speaker 3:I started doing uh wrestling when I was in high school. I do consider wrestling a martial art for sure, and I wrestled yep and I wrestled for a year at saint francis, okay, and uh, that summer, after I wrestled, uh, my best friend, best friend Eric Wilson, said that he met this man, this man named Maurice Freeman, and he said hey, I'm doing Shaolin Kung Fu, and it's this, that and the third. And I said oh, that stuff ain't nothing.
Speaker 3:I hear what you're talking about. What y'all doing, meditating, sitting on leaves or whatever. You ain't doing nothing. That ain't real. Wrestlers can beat all you guys. And he said why don't you come on out and train? And I said okay, and so I did. And I remember coming out there and I remember having a conversation with Shifu Teacher Freeman and he was sitting on the couch and he asked me some questions. He asked me what did I know about Shaolin? And I told him some. It was probably some dumb stuff that I said, cause I didn't really know nothing about it. I guess I was trying to sound impressive and you know his demeanor. If any of us you know him.
Speaker 3:His demeanor is real kind of flat. I didn't know whether or not he was receptive to me or anything. So then he told me to do the pushups, the calisthenic workout, which I still maintain to this day, although not to that level.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because we was kids.
Speaker 3:But he told me to do it and it was the hardest workout. I mean, I played football, I ran track, I wrestled, but doing those push-ups and those sit-ups and that stance work, I never felt that sore before in my life. It wiped me out. And you know, we did that for months before you even taught us a punch, a kick, a throw or anything exactly. You had to get strong. So it made me really really strong and I was like, oh, you started filling yourself up.
Speaker 1:I was kind of like a little guy.
Speaker 3:Yeah, crooked teeth. Yeah, bottle glasses, but now I got abs you know, I got chest, I got shoulders you know, I'm in my 20s and then I started training with you guys and I saw what it was like. First of all, I saw what it was like to actually be around brothers, because actually I wanted to be, I wanted to have brothers. I'm the only child, you're the only child.
Speaker 1:I know you and Eric. Y'all went way back. I used to see y'all man together all the time up at the university before I think a couple friends of mine was in church league one time and y'all was hooping.
Speaker 2:Y'all was hooping in church league, y'all had the same attitude.
Speaker 1:Like y'all was playing martial arts, y'all was doing martial arts.
Speaker 3:Hooping, though, I will say that I wasn't a very good basketball player. I tell you that much. I do have a little sister. She was born when I was 15 years old. Okay, but for most of my life I was an only child, and my little sister came when I was 15, hyalina, and she's really been instrumental in helping me since I've been back here in Ohio, okay.
Speaker 1:So let's fast forward a little bit Not too far, because we're still talking about working out and stuff. So you said that brotherhood, I know we used to be all on the concrete, like we wasn't in no traditional setting. Master Maurice, he had us out there, man, just in the elements in the backyard doing concrete, you know, push-ups and doing all kinds of stuff. Like you said, stance work, and we got to spar a lot out there. I mean, I mainly got into it because of my, uh, my, my oldest brother, and then, uh, calvin, uh, dr sweeney, they, they was out there, man, it was like come on now. I used to just go hang out at first and, uh, master freeman actually didn't put me through the same interview process because I was just so laid back.
Speaker 1:I'd be out there, we'd just be talking and he'd be like, hey man, you might as well work out man. So I was like, alright, so I started working out from there, but it was good for me just to be around the brothers, man, and we had some good times out there, man. And when you guys came out there, man, I just remember was that before you joined a fraternity- yes, that was before I joined Alpha, before I became Alpha.
Speaker 3:As a matter of fact, training out there was what led my interest to Alpha, because I didn't know anything about the Greek life at all. I didn't know what Alpha was. I didn't know what an alpha was.
Speaker 2:I didn't know anything.
Speaker 3:And so when I came out there and I was around Rich and Cal and Antonio just meeting those guys, and then I saw them on campus, I was like, oh okay, this is the same guy and I saw what kind of dudes they were, and that's what made me really want to join the fraternity. It was them. I actually joined the fraternity, believing I was going to be around them all the time.
Speaker 3:That's what I thought. I didn't realize they were graduating and they would leave. I didn't know that. I thought I'm going to be around them. We're going to hang around, just like Kung Fu.
Speaker 1:So when they graduated, did you feel a way?
Speaker 2:Yes, I did.
Speaker 3:I was like oh thought it was going to be my Sands and them. That was my expectation. And they were around for a little bit but, they were moving on, and when they moved on it was kind of like oh, I want to have adventures with y'all.
Speaker 1:That's what I thought. So yeah.
Speaker 3:But it was a great experience joining the frat and back during those days where fraternity life was different. I understand there's a situation going on with Omega Psi Phi. A young man has lost his life during the pledge process and I believe that total system of pledging is going to change. It's changed, it's been changing over the years, but it's probably really going to change now, because loss of life is what it is now, because loss of life is is what it is.
Speaker 1:Yeah, definitely have to find a a more modern way of seeing if somebody got hood or not. You know what I'm saying, right, right, um, I know back when. Um see, I didn't go to college uh, initially so, when I used to be around like I was kind of like almost like honorary bruh you know, I used to go everywhere.
Speaker 3:I thought, bruh, I used to go everywhere. I thought you was alpha.
Speaker 1:I used to go everywhere they went and actually my brother used to get irritated because they'd be like Rich where?
Speaker 3:your brother at man.
Speaker 1:Because, you know, I was kind of a little more, how you say, social than he was Right. Right, you know what I'm saying. As far as like with everything, the libations, the hanging out. Right the libations, the hanging out back then, and my brother he was really no-nonsense, he wasn't. Serious.
Speaker 3:That dude, he was something else.
Speaker 1:So I used to go around, but I went to work right after high school. I started working at an auto factory and then I got married, real young, I got married at 21. And we still married to this day. Shout out Maya 21. And uh, you know, we still married to this day. Man. Shout out maya and um, but I know, for after college, uh, how long were you? You were you here before you? You moved. You moved way out to the west coast, right, yeah, I was um.
Speaker 3:Excuse me, I was um, I'm okay. So I graduated and then I think I stayed in toledo for maybe about a year or two.
Speaker 3:I got married right after I graduated from college and then, about a year or two later we ended up moving out to Pasadena and I was heavily involved in church ministry at that time and I went out there to support a pastor who was becoming the head pastor of a church out in Pasadena. So me and my then wife I'm currently divorced we moved out there to support him in his ministry and that's where I started my family.
Speaker 1:So was he from this way too.
Speaker 3:He was from Toledo, ohio, as well. He was an assistant pastor at First Church of God, and I had known him growing up and I had been there he had left for a while and then he came back and he was the minister of music and he was assistant pastor there and then he ended up getting a position as a pastor at another church in Pasadena. And since I was assisting him then here in Toledo, he asked me pray about it. I want you to come on out, so I prayed about it and I felt the Lord told me go ahead and move.
Speaker 3:And we went on here and we load up truck, moved to Beverly.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that had to be a real life changing experience as far as like moving that far away from you. Know, here I mean everything, because you was kind of embedded, like you said, in the fraternity where you grew up, everybody from around the neighborhood and stuff knew who you were man. You had to be hearing from god. So how did? How did that, um, the ministry go out there?
Speaker 3:well, uh, I'm glad you asked that question. Okay it, I had to grow up, okay, you know, like I stated, I you know I'm divorced. Yeah, um, I had to really learn how to discover how to have a relationship with the father myself. Personally, I think that I thought that I understood what that was and, to a degree, there were some things I had correct.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 3:But there were a lot of things I didn't have correct and I fell away from the church. Okay, particularly a little bit before the divorce, okay. And definitely during and after the divorce, and I didn't go to church for a while, okay, and I was hurt and I felt as though God didn't like me.
Speaker 2:I felt as though he not that, he just didn't abandon me, but that he, just like I, struggled when he don't like me.
Speaker 1:You like everybody but me. Yeah, you bless everybody but me. Yeah, you feel like you was like one of the ones that he just like you ain't. I don't feel your hand or favor on me, right, you don't like me, you like Al, so I got to go through it because you don't like me, but I had to learn through all those things that God does like me, he does love me.
Speaker 3:And during that process I started to meet a lot of men who felt the same way, and as I began to get involved in the martial arts gyms and start working with people out in LA, I came across a lot of men that expressed those same feelings of they felt as though they were not loved period, not just by God, but by other folks. Right, and I didn't realize how many men were dealing with brokenheartedness yeah, because we look at it.
Speaker 1:I know and I dealt with it a lot too Just far as I was mad at God for a while in my early because I wasn't always a Christian, so I became a Christian. I think I was like 21 years old. But from the age of I want to say 17 to 20, I was real upset with God because one of my best friends had passed away and I was kind of trying to get answers to a lot of the questions in my head and I started. I told this story before I started reading about a lot of the paperback books that you find and people. We got different theories.
Speaker 3:Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, now you can go to YouTube. Yeah, they all over the place now.
Speaker 1:Back then you had to have you know your secret scroll was a little worn out. A little paperback somebody give you you know so.
Speaker 1:I had began like even questioning. You know everything I knew about God, you know what I'm saying. But I think, as men I want to get back to your point about brokenheartedness I think, men, man, we get accustomed or we think that is normal to live in some sort of pain, like our threshold for pain is, like we just get. Well, I'm a man, this is how life is going to be. It's going to be hard, you know, and we kind of right to a degree, was raised that way, you know, being in the midwest manufacturing town, you know rust belt.
Speaker 3:Everything was about, you know, rust and belt.
Speaker 1:Everything was about, you know that correlation between work, manhood and sacrifice. You know all kind of like bled together and it's hard sometimes to start separating. I know even my brother man. He's a professional but he still got that so much of that grit mentality. He don't like talk about feelings too much and stuff like that.
Speaker 1:But I get him to break it up a little bit yeah especially as we get older man we we got grandkids now, yeah, so you know I'm saying so, but yeah, we just talk a little bit more about, you know, like, uh, your martial art adventure there, because I know when we first came up, ufc was just really a thing. Mixed martial arts was just really becoming popular because we was taught from before one discipline. You're kind of trained in that. So, how did you transition, because I know you probably learned multiple disciplines while you was out there.
Speaker 3:Well, it was interesting because I really wanted to continue in Shaolin Kung Fu, okay, but I could not find an authentic Shaolin Kung Fu school.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 3:There were communities that did have authentic Shaolin Kung Fu schools. But if you weren't from that community, I understand you can't train.
Speaker 2:You ain't training there.
Speaker 3:Right right. So around the corner from my house there was Machado Jiu-Jitsu and I would always drive passing and see it and I was like, okay, well, maybe I could just do jiu-jitsu, because you know, because I want to train, I want to do something and this is around the corner, so let me go and do it. So one day I went in there and I met Haleel Moreland he's still my buddy to this day and I went in there and I signed up and I began to train in a gi and I had to learn that. You know the way we trained out. That that's rare. I didn't realize that. Number one, that was really world-class training with Maurice Freeman.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 3:Most people on earth don't train like that. Everything that I have seen in the martial arts world when I was in la there were mats, safety equipment, uh, cup miles piece, all that stuff. We were doing striking and grappling with reese freeman on concrete yeah, yeah with no gloves right.
Speaker 3:You were fighting each other, learning how to actually defend ourselves, falling on the ground. Learning how to fall down on concrete. Learning how to take a punch. Learning how to take a kick. Learning how to do grappling moves while someone is striking you. When he taught us how to grapple and do submission holds, he taught us how to dole and do submission holds. He taught us how to do that while you're being struck Right and while you're striking someone, to still be able to pull this off with no gloves on.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you starting to make my ribs hurt right now just thinking about it, bruh.
Speaker 3:People don't train like that anymore. That is old school, that's powerful man. I didn't really realize that and it's world class. So when he taught us how to train like that, I'm thinking Everybody train like that. Yes, I had no idea. No, no, no, this is specific, and what you learn from Maurice Freeman is a world class. I liken it to this you can go to different schools and learn engineering, but the engineering you learn at MIT is world class.
Speaker 3:If you engineer at MIT and I look at martial arts as being physical engineering it's mechanical engineering. Right, that's all. It is how you move a fulcrum on a lever, how you get the most out of your movement, how you can average, leverage your strength to do what you need to do. When you learn it from somebody who's world class, he's teaching. Other people know engineering, but the way he taught you, yeah, oh, you know some engineering. So when I started training jujitsu, I'm thinking well, the same way that we learned with you know, with shifu, was the same. No, it's different. There's mats. I had to learn how to be a little softer. I didn't realize how tough we were.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I didn't understand that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because you always went hard though. Everybody did though no, I'm kidding, you always went hard, hard, like he said one time. We was sparring, we was supposed to be, we was grappling. So you know, I used to wrestle too. So was grappling. So you know, I used to wrestle too. So I'm thinking like grappling, that's just another word for like fancy wrestling. So we got to grappling and you started punching me in my head and I was like so I came up out of it and. Richard Cowan was like ooh.
Speaker 3:Broke my nose and knocked me clean back.
Speaker 2:I'm surprised, I didn't lose consciousness.
Speaker 3:It was like wow, I didn't even see that punch I didn't even see that punch oh man, I didn't even see it, it came out of nowhere.
Speaker 3:But you know, stuff like that, experiences like that, I have never had. Nobody hit me as hard as that. I have never trained with anyone that was that tough because of the way that we trained. You were doing push-ups on your knuckles on concrete. Al Right, right, you would sit in a horse dance for five minutes. Your wrist, your strong, your a core was so strong, your back, your shoulders. So when you threw a punch, with no gloves on ring and I had on no mouthpiece, hit me, square my nose. I had to be strong enough in my neck to not get whiplash. I had to be strong enough in my body for my face not to fall apart. You hear the average guy like that. He's probably going to the hospital.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because he just set your nose back and kept moving.
Speaker 3:And we kept think about that mentality. He said Damon, you okay? I was like no, because I couldn't see. I couldn't see, I was like no. He said yeah, yeah, yeah, he broke your nose and he put his two fingers on my nose and he pushed it back in and we went back to training. I got laughed at, but hey, that's part of it. I figured you guys were like my older brothers and so I never took any of that personally, I was never mad.
Speaker 3:I wanted older brothers, yeah, and I and I looked at that's why I would always come and I was excited to see y'all because it was like. He was like my dad, yeah, and you guys were like my brothers. It was like my family and so I was so glad to be there. So none of that. So when I go to la yeah and I'm training jujitsu. Jujitsu is training jiu-jitsu. Jiu-jitsu is Brazilian. Jiu-jitsu, gracie. Jiu-jitsu is passive-aggressive. Okay, it's not like what we were doing with.
Speaker 1:Chen and I, swagiao, we're aggressive aggressive.
Speaker 3:Jiu-jitsu is passive. That's why they pull guard. They do the things that they do. They're not coming out, coming at you. They're not doing that. Some guys Some guys are, but for the most part that's not how it's taught. You lay traps, you set traps for guys and you get them. We were taught by teacher. We were taught how to survive during a street confrontation. That's how we were taught.
Speaker 3:If two or three guys jump on you, they're going to jump off, or they're going to wish they had to jump, or if the price they're going to jump off or they're going to wish they had the jump, or it's the price they're going to pay is going to be so great, they're going to rethink jumping on you. That's why we were taught Well, jiu-jitsu is not like that, it's a sport, so it's taught differently. The mentality is different. So the first time I trained with a guy, I was white belt and he grabs my gi I. That's what we were taught.
Speaker 2:That's why I wristlocked him.
Speaker 3:No, no, no, you can't wristlock. I didn't know, because at certain levels in jiu-jitsu at that time you couldn't do this in the early 2000s.
Speaker 1:They had boundaries you can't do that.
Speaker 3:There's a protocol, there's a culture. We need you to understand it. So I had to learn that culture and I had to learn a different way of training. And the great thing about it is and this is really kind of I experienced this throughout my whole journey because I used to put stuff on my Instagram page called Journeys of a Jiu-Jitist- and. I would just talk about the things that I would see. What I ended up learning is different ways of how people think.
Speaker 3:And when you train and fight with a guy, you learn how he thinks, you learn what the strategies are. Most human beings that I've met have two arms, two legs, a head that sits on top of their torso. So, no matter what martial art you train, if you isolate the elbow, that's arm bar. If you isolate the knee, that's a knee bar. Okay. You punch somebody in the face, you punch somebody in the face right it's not a different punch because it's kung fu or boxing.
Speaker 3:It's still a sock to the face and it has the same impact. So what you really learn are the strategies of how someone thinks to get to that situation. What is this guy thinking to solve this problem?
Speaker 3:The greatest thing I think Shifu taught us was how to think, how to look at stuff how to see stuff differently, so that enabled me to go to different martial arts and have an open mind was how to think, how to look at stuff, how to see stuff differently. So that enabled me to go to different martial arts and have an open mind. Well, let me see what they're doing. Well, why is he doing this? Well, why would he do it that way? Well, let me see what I can get from this. Well, how can I adapt this here? So it helped me to be in different gyms and be around different people and understand. Okay, there are differences. Let me see what these differences are and how I can add that to what it is I'm doing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's awesome man, that's growth as far as you as a man. Really, because we were disciplined but we kind of were like soldiers almost, yeah, yeah, soldiers almost. So our thing was more for real time application, real time, like you said, survival. Our teacher he came from the south side of Chicago. He was taught by a master that in that culture probably shouldn't have been teaching them, but did right you know so right um, but what I want to say was like so we were disciplined, but in a different way.
Speaker 1:But you got to learn like the mentality of of pulling yourself back and maybe not looking at a man as an opponent like I could hurt him, but looking at that fight or that sparring as like a journey or, like you said, understanding that you come to by being in, you know, in the battles type situation. So that's real interesting because I know I look at jujitsu guys and a lot of them are real mild mannered. They say you know they carry themselves Like just you know they be chilling, but if it's time to like you got to how did you get to this?
Speaker 1:We're going to get to how you got to the soul role but, like just that, that mentality I don't know if I'm articulated the way I want to, but just from knowing you and, like I said, like how aggressive we were back then and to hear you talking about like understanding how somebody thinks and how why would they do this, or do that.
Speaker 3:But back when we were your kids, we didn't care, right, it's like, right, just beat them up and get them right. Right, we were just fighting, right. I didn't understand the strength of what uh teacher taught us until I it's almost and I talked to him about this too it's like you don't understand why the rules in your house, what your parents are, until you go be in your own house or you go to somebody else's and then you're like, oh, that's why he trained me to act like this, oh, that's why he trained me to think. A lot of lessons he taught I didn't understand. Until after I left, a lot of Kung Fu, I didn't understand. I was like why are we? You know, I couldn't, I was just doing what he was telling me right, exactly, and I was just going as hard as I could, because I wanted to.
Speaker 3:I wanted to impress him. Yeah, you know, I wanted him to say you did a good job, but I didn't really understand. And when I left the house, when I left toledo and I started training with different people, then I could remember a lot of the things he was saying oh, this one, oh, he did, oh. And it was almost like a re-education, almost like a re-indoctrination into Kung Fu again, even though it wasn't Chinese Kung Fu.
Speaker 3:Right right, but it was, the principles were still there and they stayed with me and I was able to learn Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. I was able to learn different aspects some Osambo, some catch, wrestling, these different types of martial arts, and being there with some Muay Thai guys and really see, oh, this is what they're thinking, oh, this is what separates this from that, oh, this is the mentality. Some of those guys really do train hard like we do, like when I trained with Gokor Chibichian.
Speaker 2:Those guys trained, do train hard like we do, like when I train with gokoro chibichian. Okay, those guys train, that's the last gym I came from.
Speaker 3:Okay, high stand, mma them guys, they go, are uh they, they, the real deal, because that's a combination of that sambo, that's um, that's jujitsu, that's catch wrestling, okay, you know, and they do an mma and those guys are coming from, you know, coach, go church of each. And it's coming from, uh, you know armenia, and he comes out of soviet style, uh programs and things of that nature.
Speaker 3:So when you come there and train, you're getting ready to learn some world once again. Another world-class teacher, you know, another guy that's. That's that guy that understands, who's going to be able to show you how to think. You know, I noticed his lessons, coach chavich, and his lessons. Sensei chavich and his lessons were really on how you look at this move wasn't so much just how you do this, how you do that. He would show you a series of moves, but it was the principle that he was trying to teach. There's a principle here and you can attack this joint this way, this way and this way. The principle is what he was, not necessarily this how you do put your hand here put your body here, do this, do that.
Speaker 3:Okay, he did teach that and he did say this won't work unless your body's here. But what he really was trying to impress on us is this works because this principle is sound. Your body has to be in these positions for this principle to work. And this principle is sound and it will work as long as you execute the principle, no matter what body part you're on. And that's what really makes Coach Gokorchavichian such a great, world-class teacher, because he understands these principles and how to teach them in a very simple way. You know, he's not real complex. He's not going to go in there and shatter your. He's going to show you look this, this, that. Then you're going to see oh wow, you can do that from there. Yeah, oh, I didn't what you can do, whoa, oh, okay, this is why he's got MMA champions and UFC champions.
Speaker 2:Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 3:Champion judo guys and world champion judo players and world champion sambo guys that come and train there, because he's able to take these once again, these high scientific principles, this high physical science, and he's able to show you. You know learning another MIT professor, you. You know learning another MIT professor, you know, this is how you do it. This is how it is. Let me break it down to you. I learned how a great teacher can take complex principles and make it seem simple.
Speaker 1:That's what great teachers do. They're not trying to confuse you. They want you to get it.
Speaker 3:They can explain to you why light travels the way it does and break that real complex equation down to something like ABC. It was MC2. They do. I see what you're saying. That's what he's doing. That's what he did. Real good training and I miss those guys.
Speaker 1:That's awesome man. So was it? Did they allow you because I know you say you was a white starter, a white belt did they allow you to move through a little faster because of your understanding, or was kind of like they still had to? Uh, you had to go through a certain period of time very interesting uh uh question.
Speaker 3:I was a white belt in jujitsu for 10 years. For 10 years and that had a lot to do with me going through divorce and going through different schools. But I was a white belt for 10 years and after a while it didn't matter to me whether or not I got promoted.
Speaker 1:You just said, I'm not even going to worry about the elevation, I'm just doing the art.
Speaker 3:I was getting the information. So after I had the recovery from the first time I ended up dealing with the cancer diagnosis I began to train with the LA Jiu-Jitsu Club and those guys there took me in and I was able to train with them in the mornings. It was a great training session to be able to go and train with these guys in the morning before I would go to work. I was able to get myself back and they were the ones, after 10 years, that promoted me to blue belt, and it was under the instruction of their coach.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 3:Um, because they were running this out of their home. That's what they were doing. Joey House worked primarily with me and he was the guy. He has a gym out in Lake Arrowhead right now. He's married. He's doing very successful teaching people breathing techniques and jiu-jitsu.
Speaker 3:He's doing very successful teaching people, breathing techniques and jujitsu. He's just become a phenomenal guy, you know, in that manner and he's really. He really really worked with me a lot during that time. It was two guys that were there, but Joey really really helped me a whole lot and they brought me back to myself and they were the ones that promoted me through their coach, who was another Machado school, john Jacques. Actually, it was John Jacques that they got the authorization from to promote me from white to blue, and they were the ones that, so you can share as much as a little, you know.
Speaker 1:So how old were you when you because I remember a little bit because the brothers, like you know, back here, like my brother calvin, uh, terrell, some other brothers you know, they always talk about, uh, how damon was doing and how old were you when you got your cancer diagnosis and what were you? Just not feeling yourself, were you just doing regular checkups or how'd that? How'd that happen?
Speaker 3:okay, let's see. So this was I started. I got diagnosed in 2014. Okay, so that's about 11 years ago. So I'll be 50 years old on friday this coming friday he's around 39. I was around 39, right, and at that point in time, I was working as an executive protection agent, which means I was bodyguard okay and so I was working.
Speaker 2:1099 was feeling. Myself was working at certain nightclubs and all this stuff and working with certain celebrities and.
Speaker 3:I had gained a lot of weight, so I was 250 pounds. Then I was big dude and I put the weight on because I wanted to work more yeah, yeah and I went, got me some suits made so I could be that guy, you know, and uh, I had this growth, uh in my neck okay and there was a girl I was dating at that time. She said you need to get that checked out, and I ignored it, like most men do yeah, for sure and then the growth on my neck continued to grow and she encouraged me to go.
Speaker 3:So I ended up going to a clinic and the clinic said you need to go to a hospital get biopsy. And I said well, why do that?
Speaker 3:we, we can't really tell you need to go get that checked out, right? So I did, and I I remember the doctor, they did the biopsy and they told me to come back a couple days later. Yeah, and I remember sitting there and it was a Russian lady and she came in and she had his look on her face, right, so she sits down and she says well, I just want to let you know that what we found is that you're diagnosed with mantle cell lymphoma.
Speaker 1:And I said okay, what is that?
Speaker 3:and she said, well, it's a cancer. And she explained it to me. He said, basically, with mantle cell lymphoma, and I said, okay, what is that? And she said, well, it's a cancer. And she explained it to me. She said, basically, your lymphatic system is not cleaning itself out and it's being clogged up. And this is kind of interesting because you are an African-American male that's how they designated me and they said that you're young and this particular diagnosis we find this in European men who are over the age of 65. So this is very strange that you get this.
Speaker 3:And I said okay, well, how do we treat it? Let's do the operation and get it out of them.
Speaker 3:She said this isn't something we can operate on. I said so, how do we do it? She said well, we're going to give you chemotherapy and if you're eligible for a stem cell transplant, we'll do the stem cell transplant. I said okay. I said so, how many stages in cancer is this? She said four. I said well, what stage am I in? She said four. I said oh. I said so, what's my life expectancy? Do what's my life expectancy right? Do I have one? And then she said do you believe in god? And I bust out laughing. And the reason why was because at that point in my life I was living foul. Al, I ain't even gonna sugarcoat it, I was living foul, I was doing a whole bunch of stuff I shouldn't have been doing.
Speaker 3:I had walked out of the relationship with the father. I did and I was hurt. I was upset. I was divorced and I decided that I was going to find the bottle, the bottom of every bottle, and I decided I was going to sleep around women. You was going to live it up, everybody else doing it. You know what I'm saying. So that's how I felt. I was upset, I was hurt, I was angry. I look back on it now. I was depressed.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:I was hurt because I had lost my kids. I had lost connection to my kids and I just felt worthless and I thought that if I could get a girl to tell me you the man, then I'm the man, right right. So I started doing stuff and got into relationships with women. I shouldn't have been involved In those relationships. I laughed at that time Because at that time I was dating a married woman and I had no business doing that.
Speaker 1:And I knew, okay, I laughed, this is a mean guy and you were in a doctor's office and she asked you do you believe in God?
Speaker 3:You gonna testify to me, you, a scientist.
Speaker 1:You get ready.
Speaker 3:You witnessing to me.
Speaker 1:And.
Speaker 3:I'm sitting there and I know I'm wrong but I'm doing it anyway and you talking to me and I'm like and I start laughing. So after that I had to call my mom and call my grandma. That was really tough for me. I had to let them know that. I remember walking around the car for like 20, 30 minutes before I got on the phone because I didn't want to tell them and I contemplated not telling anybody. I kind of let me just go through this and don't say nothing. I thought no, that's selfish.
Speaker 3:People love you, you need to tell them. So I called them and told them.
Speaker 2:I think I got in the car.
Speaker 3:I think I sat there for like an hour and I cried. It hurt me more to tell my family than it was for me to go through what I was going through. They couldn't see me. And then I was so prideful I didn't want to go back to Toledo. I was so prideful I didn't want to leave Los Angeles. I was so prideful I didn't want people from Toledo to come and visit me.
Speaker 2:I so prideful.
Speaker 3:I didn't want people from Toledo to come and visit me. I was prideful, I was no.
Speaker 2:I can make it.
Speaker 3:No, I can do it. I'm the man, I'm strong enough. I'm going to beat this, which is a good idea, but I kept away people who really wanted to be there for me, and I didn't have to do that. I think I hurt a lot of people's feelings and I was wrong for that.
Speaker 3:I think I hurt a lot of people's feelings and I was wrong for that. The only thing good that I think that came out of that situation was while I was going through the treatment I realized that I had done some people wrong. So I remember getting in contact with my ex-wife and I spoke to her and I remember telling her I lined itemed. I didn't just say forgive me because I was wrong, I said I did this I did that.
Speaker 3:I was wrong. I did itemed. I didn't just say forgive me because I was wrong. I said I did this, I did that. I was wrong. I did that, I did this. I just asked that you forgive me because you know I'm going through this and please forgive me for how I was. I don't think being married, I don't think I understood how to be a husband.
Speaker 2:I don't think I understood it.
Speaker 3:I think I was too immature. I don't think I understood it.
Speaker 2:I think I was too immature.
Speaker 3:I don't think I understood what it meant to be a husband. There are a lot of negative things that happened to me, but I took accountability for what I did and I dealt with the man that I was and the man that I wasn't, and that was around the time when my relationship with the father began to come back. I can recall being at home after the first week of chemo and I was in the bed and I started crying and I remember praying and I remember saying you don't like me, look, see, you don't like me, look how this is.
Speaker 3:I'm in this situation. You don't like me. You never liked me. My kids are gone. My family's torn away. I don't like me. You never liked me. You let. My kids are gone. My family's torn away. I don't have nothing. You never liked me. I've always had it hard. I don't have no family. I don't have no people here. I think I cried myself to sleep At that time. I was renting a bed out of a home where there was a bunch of guys renting a bed.
Speaker 3:I was at a really bad place in my life and I'm laying there in that top bunk in that room crying, and that night I had a dream and I remember this very vividly, and the dream was it was my whole life. And I remember seeing my life as though it was super imposed over a book where the things that I was seeing were written down at the same time. It was kind of strange and I could feel God saying I wanted you to do this, but you chose that. I wanted you to go this way, but you chose this. I wanted you to be here, but you chose that Right.
Speaker 3:I woke up with this feeling that a lot of things I could feel God telling me that a lot of this, a lot of the situation that I was in, was due to decisions that I had made. God wanted better for me. I didn't believe him. I wanted to go in a different way. I went in a different way and things turned out the way that they did and that began a lot of a process of me really thinking about what I was going through. It took me a while to end certain relationships, certain things that I shouldn't have been a part of, certain things that I shouldn't have been doing. It took me a while to get those habits out, but I began the process of trying to get those habits out of my life and eventually those relationships went away and a lot of those habits left. A lot of those habits left because they had to leave, because I was going through the diagnosis. So I couldn't drink no more, I couldn't smoke no more cigars which I love doing and I couldn't sleep around like I wanted to.
Speaker 3:That took a minute for me to get that out of my system.
Speaker 2:I ain't going to lie.
Speaker 3:So I had to be really careful with that, and then I ended up eventually getting to a place where it was just me and God.
Speaker 1:So where did you get the arc? So you felt like God didn't like you and then you went through, like you said, relationally with your wife, the things that y'all went through, and then you get a diagnosis Like what brought you to yourself to where you just didn't you know just lay down and just call it quits, Like what do you think that moment?
Speaker 1:or that thought, like how did you think that God just strengthened you? Or what was the thought process. Because I know when you first get that type of information it's like stage four, like it's over.
Speaker 2:You know what I'm saying?
Speaker 1:Yeah, but where did you get that, that resiliency from in that space, when you just learning something that most people that's hard to deal with? I don't care how old you are right, right, right.
Speaker 3:Um, I'm gonna be honest, a big part of it was just stubbornness. Okay, I'm not gonna get beat, it ain't gonna whoop me, yeah, yeah, yeah. Even though I was feeling bad about myself, I wanted to feel good about myself. Okay, I wanted to to be better and I wanted to prove that I could overcome okay right.
Speaker 3:So there was that stubbornness. And then I can recall there was this guy in the hospital who worked in the hospital. He was a janitor and al he. You know how they wear the scrubs right, and I don't know if scrubs have a back pocket, but this guy had a full bible in the back of his scrubs, okay. And he came into my room and he looked at me and he said you know what? I'm gonna pray with you? And I said okay. He said do you believe god will heal you? And I said yeah, yeah. He said no, we gonna really pray about this. And he pulled that big old bible out. It was folded and it was crazy, but it was a real big, full-size bible. And he pulled it out and unfolded it and flopped open to a scripture and he started praying. It prayed, the scripture, grabbed my hands, we prayed, we touched and agreed and from that moment on I was like no, I'm healed, I'm beating this. We gonna. Let's go to this day.
Speaker 3:I have never said I have blank, I don't say that. Yeah, there's a diagnosis, they said, but I never say I have, I won't say it. Yeah, I won't say that by stripes I've been healed. That's what he said so I cling to that, right, right. So I stayed that and that was the reason why I wouldn't quit. It was either like okay, you're going to die, and do you want to die not seeing your kids again? Right, do you want to die in this poverty? Do you want to die having not accomplished the things that you accomplished? Do you want to do that?
Speaker 3:Do you want to punk out Right right, right Like no no, I do.
Speaker 2:You want to punk out right, right, right like no, no, I want, I want to fight, so I didn't have no car at that time either, because I couldn't work.
Speaker 3:So I was 10, 99, so I couldn't work and, uh, you know, couldn't, couldn't do the bodyguarding, couldn't do the bouncing, no more. So, um, I had to find my way to the hospital, and so I had to catch the bus and catch the train. I was wearing a surgical mask. Before everybody else was wearing them, the chemotherapy took the hair off my head took my eyebrows, my eyelashes. I'm sitting on the train looking like a seal Sitting on the bus.
Speaker 3:Looking like a seal Sometimes couldn't afford to get on the bus with sneak on because, they have this thing called the Orange Line in LA that you can get on that and it'll take you from one place to another. Uh, it's like a road that's made for it, and I would sneak on the orange line, pop on, sit there, get off, take it to downtown la, um hop. Well, it would take me to to a train um station and I would take that to downtown LA and I would get off in downtown LA and walk from there to the hospital which was in East LA, and then I would do my chemotherapy. One week on, one week off, I would do that and then I would walk back they would say you got a ride.
Speaker 3:I'm like, yeah, I got a ride. I'm waiting for them outside and I would go outside, where nobody looking, and then run on down the street and go on back. Do you want to live?
Speaker 2:there were some people street and go on back. So do you want to live?
Speaker 3:Right, right, right. There were some people that did give me rides, but that's going to last for so long. People are nerds. They got lives to live, so you're going to have to get yourself there and you're going to have to get yourself back. Do you want to live? So, yeah, I do. So I had to do it.
Speaker 1:That's amazing, because you're like being a physical person. It's like once you made up your mind you wasn't going to quit that, just training, that discipline you've had to put that into action within, almost internal, because we did so much external, but now it's internal. So that same commitment, that same, I got to go. This is'm just not gonna beat me. I'm not giving up, man, that's that's powerful man, like like I didn't know, like all your story, that's kind of like why I wanted to sit down with you today is just like I knew, like, like I felt god telling me like man, this brother's been resilient, like half haven't been told, so just just your.
Speaker 1:I believe that your story man, like whoever might see this, they might be dealing with something and give them that, that encouragement, like man, I'm I'm dealing with something, but they might have more resources, they might have more support. I know you would have support, like you said, you, you kind of put yourself in isolation a little bit but you know, but you still came through and coming through man, and that's, I just want to say, man, that's powerful man. I appreciate you sharing that yeah yeah, yeah, thank you.
Speaker 3:Uh, it was. It was a rough time I had to grow up. Um, it was hard, a lot of tears, yeah, um, a lot of that stuff was my fault. I was doing a lot of drinking. I kind of believe my lifestyle kind of brought the diagnosis on the kind of man that I was. I kind of look at, yeah, you know, you kind of wasn't living right, even spiritually, just outside of the physical stuff you do to your body, just my thought process and my character. It admittedly just wasn't very good. I admit that I wasn't a decent man and I wasn't a decent man for some years and this process kind of helped me to reexamine that and to stop being so upset with God and realize, you know, god does love me. You know, all the hardship and stuff that I was going through was there. It was training. I didn't understand that it's training. I thought of it, as you don't like me, why I got to do this. That was the equivalent of doing push-ups and horse stance.
Speaker 3:I didn't see it like that. I thought of it like it's punishment. I'm seeing other people get great jobs. I can't get no great job, right, right. I'm seeing other people they don't have diagnosis. I got a diagnosis, right. I'm seeing other people get a great car. I got to struggle to get me a car, or I got to do this. Somebody got to help me to get a car, you. I got to go through all these things. Why do I got to go through all these things when they were to refine character.
Speaker 3:So what I learned with talking with some of the brothers that I've met is to really let them know that God does love you and he's not mad at you. I thought God was mad at me too. He don't like some of the stuff I was doing, but he's not sitting around being mad and he's not sitting around trying to hand out punishment to me. A lot of the things that I experienced were the direct consequence of my actions. We reap the things that we sow, so I sowed those things, so I reaped them. That wasn't God putting that on me. There was some discipline, because he disciplines those that he loves. There was some discipline because he disciplines those that he loves, but a lot of that stuff was Damon. You did this, so I had to eat the things that I put in the ground. But the greatest thing that I've learned is just because that's happening doesn't mean that God don't love me. I'm looking at love as okay, you're supposed to wear my blessings, you're supposed to have some money.
Speaker 3:Everything's supposed to go good. You're supposed to have some money. Everything's supposed to go good. You're supposed to prosper. Every time I do something, it's supposed to work out. I ain't never supposed to experience failure when those things happen. God, that means you love me. That's not what that means. So I had to understand that love isn't the me receiving things. Love is God. Is love right? 1 John 1 says that. So God is the living embodiment of sacrifice according to discipline. That's what love is. That's what love is Sacrifice according to discipline. No matter how we act, god has sacrificed himself according to discipline. He said he was going to redeem us, so he did no matter how we act, no matter what we do, because he said he was going to redeem us, so he did no matter how we act, no matter what we do, because he said he was going to do it he did it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because he don't lie.
Speaker 3:He don't lie and that's love. He's going to stick to his word no matter how I act. So I had to see that no, god does love me. So when I talk to guys who are experiencing love, brokenheartedness, the first thing I want them to know God does, he loves you. A lot of times men, particularly married men and men who go to church, they'll believe that God loved their wife and God wants you to love your wife real hard, as Christ loved the church and all that stuff.
Speaker 3:But how much ministry is coming to the man, about his heart, about him being loved, about him needing to be loved as men. I don't even know if we think that we need to be loved, but we do. God created us and he said it's not good for the man to be alone, so you have to live in community, not just having a wife, but just living in community with people, so that people can love you and show that love that God has for you, because men do need to be loved. Men need to receive love. It's good for us, right? I had isolated myself at one point in time in my life because of the hurt that I had been experiencing, and I realized that isolation is bad for a man because it's addictive. And you don't have to care about nobody else. I don't have to think about you. All I have to think about is myself. I don't have to do nothing for nobody else. But God created us to live in community. No, you're supposed to think about somebody else. Why? Because God thinks about somebody else all the time.
Speaker 3:So following the Lord, I learned, is about getting his character. I thought it was about getting things I'm supposed to be blessed, I'm supposed to have this, I'm supposed to have that, I'm supposed to speak in tongues, I'm supposed to have powers and be able to tell you what God said and lay hands on you and you do stuff.
Speaker 1:How come I don't have that? I didn't know you were making a laugh when you said powers.
Speaker 3:That's what you never noticed, a lot of people interpret it like that.
Speaker 3:You got powers and you can do all these things and you close to God Like a spiritual X-Man or something. Yeah, you know that doesn't indicate closeness, because the word says the gifts come without repentance. So you know you can do those things. So what? So you know you can do those things, so what's the point of following god? Well, the point of following god is to get his character. The whole word of god is written so that we can understand the character of god, so that we can understand relationship, what he wants us to be as people, how he wants us to treat people he.
Speaker 3:He talks about this in his word. These three things he says, do unto others you would have him do unto you. Jesus is the way, the truth and the life. No man comes to the five steps of the room. So that means don't lie. And then he says let your yes be yes and your no be no. Those are the three things of character, those three principles that I believe men are supposed to live by, that a man is supposed to have, that a man is supposed to exhibit. And these things they are who God is. God is the truth, right. God is honor. He's going to treat you the way he wants to be treated.
Speaker 3:He's going to treat you that way and you know his yes is yes and his no is no. He's going to stand behind what he says. He's never going to leave that. That's what he does and he wants us to be that and that's the honor and character that I learned how to get from God and learn how. That's what I'm following God for to be close to him, to be the kind of man he wants me to be, to be the kind of man that he is, because Jesus has got him at the same time, to be the kind of man that he is, to have that character, not necessarily to get stuff.
Speaker 3:So my whole mind had to change. I had to learn how to be loving, because I don't think I understood what that was. I had to learn how to be considerate, because I don't think I understood what that was. I had to learn how to mature and be a man, because I definitely didn't understand what that was. And these things have been a process and along the way of me learning these things, I've hurt a lot of people and I've had to understand the impact of my actions on folk and how powerful the impact of my actions really are and how to really understand what I'm saying and what I'm doing. And it took, you know, damaging family for me to learn these things, things that I haven't handled right, things that I'm still dealing with now with family, things that are my fault, but then the things that are my fault.
Speaker 3:And I've had to deal with what's my fault being estranged from family members, having family members not like you and threaten your life, and it hurts. But I've had to see okay, what's your responsibility in that. Damon, you can be mad at them, you can feel how you want to feel about them, but what's your responsibility? Look at where you messed up. Look at what you did A lot of this stuff, damon is you?
Speaker 2:Some of this stuff is them.
Speaker 3:But a lot of this stuff is you. You got to own what you did. Maybe some people don't want to hear nothing from you because what you did hurt them. So Some bridges, when they're burned, the other person got to want it built back in order for you to have that bridge built.
Speaker 3:Sometimes that's you just got to understand you can't go that way, no more than the bridge burned, they got to want to build it back in order for y'all to cross that river, going to be there keeping y'all separate. That separation is painful. It's helped me to really understand how really to communicate with people On the mats when I would be around guys, because the truth come out when you fighting dudes, you know what I'm saying. When you training, the truth come out who you really is and who you ain't. If you a coward, well it's going to show up and I've seen a lot of guys. They struggle with things and as you start to bleed and sweat with guys, they start telling you about their lives and you guys kind of develop a trust with each other.
Speaker 3:Things come out and certain guys begin to talk about what's going on with their lives and what's happening with them and I've been able to really god has blessed me to really be a brother.
Speaker 2:I see it now be a brother to the brothers just be a brother I like to encourage him.
Speaker 3:Talk with him, tell him that God loves him. Yeah, show him that you love him. When I first started training the headstand MMA, they was all looking at me because these is Russian dudes, okay here come this brother, and it was like so, after I would get done rolling with him, I would hug him and they was looking at me like what you doing, what you doing?
Speaker 3:I know you ain't hug me. No, let me show you love. Right, let me show you love. Let me show you love. Let me show you this Right, because we just tried to kill each other. Right, and you think, because I'm a muscular brother, I'm going to come in here and be arrogant, because I didn't did a few things, but let me show you no, no, no, no, no.
Speaker 3:This aggression. There's love in aggression. There's peace and strength. There's peace and power. You know God loves us. He also knocked the back of your head off. There's both we have. We can't just be just. We can be like yeah, I respect you, I respect what you did, you know and love each other.
Speaker 3:So being able to show that on the mats with brothers is really helped me to have some really good training partners, uh, to really show some guys. There's some guys out there I just miss so much rolling with them and really being able to talk with them and build with them a couple guys you know. Uh, you know, tears were shed, you know, in private moments, just talking about things, just being men and discussing things, and I really began to see that you know God, god does love me. Let me show these guys. Let me show these guys that love. Let me show them yeah, god loves you. There's nothing wrong with you. You got problems, but that don't mean you Right, you know I'm saying God loves you. Now don't, let's work this out. And I've been totally grateful to the father for that experience man, that's powerful man.
Speaker 1:So how long have you been back home like?
Speaker 3:I've been back home since the end of august, august 2024. Okay, that's when I came back. I did not want to come back. Okay, I did not want to be in toedo, ohio. I consider coming here a failure. I just thought I'd failed but I realized I had to come back because my health situation had come back and I had like a little tumor right here. It looked like a little finger pulling through my neck. And I got back here in August. About a time, the end of September, that thing looked like another head right and your brother and my son Sorrell went with me down to Cleveland Clinic so she could, dr JKD, she could take a look at it and she took pictures of it and she said that looked like a pumpkin. She said a pumpkin, look at you, that looked like a pumpkin, cause it was pretty big. She took pictures of it and I had to take my shirt off while my sans was there while Terrell was there and while your brother Rich was there, and I remember them getting quiet.
Speaker 3:when I took my shirt, I knew it had to look bad and it was pretty big, you know, and so I was able to get chemo and really radiation took that down which dang near killed me At least I thought it was.
Speaker 3:It hurt so bad, but it took it down and I was able to get on the chemotherapy and so we've been in recovery since and they took the cells out to do this CAR T immunotherapy and they said I'm doing pretty good. They took the cells out, so the cells have to grow to 80%. My cells only grew to 75%. So they gave me the option to do it again and I said okay, you know, before I leave, let me do it again. So now we're in the process of rescheduling that so I can go ahead and get this thing and then move on.
Speaker 3:But as of right now I'm feeling good. I don't feel 100%. I think I'm more like at a strong 85. 90 sometimes, Maybe because I'm 50.
Speaker 2:I don't know, maybe that's what it is.
Speaker 3:I'd like to feel better, but I'm strong enough to get up and walk around and move around. I praise God for that.
Speaker 1:You been able to do any light training or you kind of just still recover?
Speaker 3:I still do push-ups. I still stay on the push-ups, the routine that Shifu, that teacher, maurice Freeman, taught us. I still do the push-ups. I still do those things To the extent that I can get them done. I still do those. But in terms of the training that I was doing before all this, I have not been able to train like that.
Speaker 1:So what's your goal? I know I'm believing that you're going to come through and be 100%, so what's next? What do you think is next for you?
Speaker 3:Well, what's next is I really want to get back to training again. I definitely want to do that, let's see. Do I want to say this? I think I do, okay. So I've been writing this entire time. I've been writing Okay, and so I want to pursue that. I think that's all I'm going to say about that. I'm working on some things, and so I want to pursue that. Being in LA taught me a bit about having an entrepreneurial spirit and pursuing things. So that's how I'm just going to stop right there.
Speaker 3:Because I don't like to say things and then they're not done, because then you didn't say it and it's on camera now.
Speaker 2:You didn't say you're going to do this. Where is that?
Speaker 3:So I want to make sure that I got things, did I got you. So, yeah, I've been able to use some of my gifts and talents in that area.
Speaker 1:So that's where I want to train with those guys and really establish some stuff before I move on from toledo. You think about like sharing, like your testimony, or speaking more. I mean because you got a way of breaking stuff down I would like to.
Speaker 3:I would like to talk to brothers. I would like to be a brother to the brothers. I would like to, I would like, I really would like. I do believe that God has called me to speak, to talk to men, to be a brother to men rather than standing in a pulpit. I really want to talk to brothers, I really would like to. I don't know how to go about that, but I would like to do that Because I know that a lot of brothers really want the conversation.
Speaker 3:I know I wanted it when I was going through. Somebody tell me something, because I don't like this and I don't like what was going on and I'm finna do something. I think that's one of the reasons why I was doing the drugs, the alcohol and messing around with the women is because I didn't like what was happening. I wasn't going to rely on the word of God because I didn't think he liked me. If there's a brother going through that and he could hear dog, god does like you, you just amaze him and sometimes you just experience in life, I think a lot of brothers could benefit from that. I would like to talk to more, just to help. Yeah, for sure, 100%. Just to help them.
Speaker 1:I'm just saying, just for me, and you just sitting here, talking, like I could feel, like I don't know how it comes across on camera, but just between me and you, I could feel like that, that, that authentic authenticity and that passion and what you're saying, because you lived it, you know what I'm saying and you believe in, like god, bring you through to the other side, and he ain't done with you yet. I'll just say that much. So, um, yeah, man, um, so, so I wanted to have you on here. So this is two cups cafe, man, like one for the wake, one for the work. And I just believe that your story and how you carry yourself and your discipline like for the wake, for me is like what gets you up, what's inspiring you well, like what's next for you. And then the work. The second cup always, I always drink at least two cups of coffee. I cut it, cut it off at two cups, like I don't't wanna say the eight cups cafe.
Speaker 3:Right right, it's too much on a shirt.
Speaker 1:It's too much on a shirt, so, but I believe, like what's the work? And I just personally believe that you exemplify like the waking and the work, just from just knowing the little that I did know about you, but now, like the picture is even clearer, like how you carry yourself or how you walk it out. Man, you might not like hearing it because you've been through it so much. Like you said, you might have felt like there's things that you did along the way that put you in precarious situations, but no, I think that your journey is like everything that you did didn't feel good, might not have been good, but it's working out for you, good man. I just want to encourage you with that and and say thank you, man, that you even come on here and be, be that transparent, that vulnerable man, man, thank you for having me seriously really thank you.
Speaker 3:It was really a blessing when you reached out. I kind of sometimes don't expect that people want to hear anything from me.
Speaker 2:I don't know why I don't expect that. Who wants to talk to me?
Speaker 3:I guess I don't know what that is, but thank you for having me. I really appreciate this opportunity.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and anything, man, I could do. Man, I'm an open book too, so if you think that I'll be able to help you with anything you know I might know about that, maybe Al might know somebody, man, don't hesitate, man.
Speaker 1:I'll definitely reach out, thank you once again, man, just thanks for coming on. This is Two Cups Cafe. Like subscribe. We back at it. You know I took some time off just to get myself together, but in 2025 my goal is to be more consistent, be committed to consistency and having a brother like this on here with me has just been a blessing and just we looking for more high quality caffeinated conversations. And until next time, man, it's your friend Al 2 Cups.
Speaker 3:All right.
Speaker 2:I cried a few times.
Speaker 3:Oh, that's all right, had to pull myself back.
