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The Journey of Girl Dads: Balancing Work, Family, and Life Lessons
What does it mean to be a "girl dad" in today's world? In this deeply personal conversation, host Alan C. Jackson sits down with his longtime friend and former high school football teammate Joe Dickens to explore their shared journey raising daughters.<br><br>The two men, who reconnected at their 30-year class reunion, open up about the unique challenges and profound joys of fathering girls. From instilling confidence through sports participation to navigating the tricky waters of dating and relationships, they share wisdom gained through decades of hands-on experience. "Just be tactful in how you approach them," Joe advises, explaining how he balanced honesty with sensitivity when coaching his daughters through life's disappointments.<br><br>Both men reflect on how their own upbringings shaped their parenting philosophies. Growing up with parents who demonstrated unwavering work ethics prepared them for the sacrifices fatherhood would require. Joe, who works dangerous shifts at an oil refinery, and Alan, who mentors young men, discuss the delicate balance of providing financially while remaining present in their children's lives.<br><br>Faith emerges as a cornerstone of their parenting approach. "As a man, I pray for my girls every day," Alan shares, with Joe nodding in agreement about the importance of spiritual guidance when daughters move beyond a father's immediate protection. Their conversation reveals how raising daughters transformed not just their daily routines but their understanding of manhood itself.<br><br>Whether you're a parent seeking guidance, someone curious about the father-daughter relationship, or simply enjoy authentic conversations about life's most meaningful connections, this episode offers heartfelt insights from two men who've learned that raising strong women requires both strength and tenderness.<br><br>Like, subscribe, and share Two Cups Cafe where we have good conversations with good people, hopefully sparking something that encourages you to keep going.
Follow Allen C. Jackson - @2cupschronicles
five, four, three, two and one. Welcome back to two cups cafe, where I'm your host. Alan c jackson, who I have coming through for a high quality caffeinated conversation today, is none other than my main man, joe dickens. What's up, joe?
Speaker 2:what up with you, big al?
Speaker 1:not too much, man. I'm so glad you just came through. Man, chop it up with me for a little while, brother.
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah, no doubt.
Speaker 1:So, man, we got kind of reconnected. A couple years ago, man, at our 30th year class reunion, we spent some time in Mexico, man, and you know how sometimes you don't really realize you need something until it happens, man. And that trip, man, really transformed my life, man. I was just so happy just to reconnect with all you guys man. We just had a good time.
Speaker 2:We did, we did, man, it was good to see all of y'all and, like you said, man, we reconnected and did it big over there in Cancun. Yes, sir, yeah.
Speaker 1:And so, man, we go back. Man, we played football together back in high school man, no doubt he was number he was 45 and I was 54,. You know, yeah, we played linebacker. I was inside linebacker, even though you know I was kind of a smaller guy.
Speaker 2:We had Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1:You know we had to make it work, man. No doubt, but we was tough man.
Speaker 2:We was tough and mean and Did what we had to do, right.
Speaker 1:Yes, sir, I know what I'm saying man, we got a lot of our personality from you, man, you almost was an old soul back then. Man, I pre-gave one of those songs what you dropped a bomb on me or something like that.
Speaker 2:Oh man, all that old school bro, we played it all Earth, wind and.
Speaker 1:Fire the Gap Band. Oh, yeah, yeah, and fire the cat man.
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah, yeah, we did it old school, yeah, man.
Speaker 1:so tell me a little bit, man, how you grew up. Man, like you have big family, little family, brothers, sisters, you know whatnot.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so yeah, I had a nice-sized family man. Out of the siblings, it's like nine of us, okay, what I got about? Three older sisters, four older brothers, and we all didn't stay in the same house. Okay, right, but yeah, we had it. We had a nice size family. So all the family gatherings, yeah, oh they were.
Speaker 1:It was good, it was good, so was music part of the gatherings or?
Speaker 2:no, we you know what was pretty much man. We always watched the sporting events okay, okay football games. Super bowl uh nba championship yeah you know we always was watching the sports okay things of that nature.
Speaker 1:You grew up with both parents.
Speaker 2:Yes, my dad had his kids and whatnot. My mom had my older brother as well, but it was just me and my brother Glenn in the house.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's awesome, man. I remember just the high school times we played football and I know you went away well kind of away, about at least half hour half hour.
Speaker 2:That's it.
Speaker 1:I'm skipping the job now, were you with your intentions? You play ball there, or?
Speaker 2:no, I, um, I was gonna walk on, okay, um, but I had ended up getting an injury, okay, and um, it was at one of our family gatherings, matter of fact, um, but after, after I healed from that, I ended up up doing the semi-pro football for a little bit. And that was a fun time. Yeah, we had a good time with that. Yeah, how long did you play that? We probably did that about. I did about three years with them, Okay.
Speaker 1:Yeah, three years. Yeah, semi-pro ball. We're gladiators right there. Yeah, strictly.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we out there, man, we playing ball just like you know, almost like the pros, but we didn't have all the perks.
Speaker 1:Right, right right.
Speaker 2:That was short-lived, I'll say that.
Speaker 1:I heard that because you got to get up and go to work. You got to get up and go to work and sometimes you limp in there.
Speaker 2:Yes, sir, yeah. So I had to get paid, so something had to go.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so you wind up. Did you meet your wife back here or did you meet her in college?
Speaker 2:No, no, my Sharonda man, we've been cool since like almost junior high. You know been knowing her since that long and we didn't actually get together until you know, after college or whatnot. Okay, but I knew her all through high school and everything.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Yep, yep, yeah, so you were involved in. So football was one activity but I know you were involved in like a. How would you describe it? Was it Zenos Kudos, kudos, kudos? How would you describe that?
Speaker 2:Oh man, that was a fun time too. It was a bunch of us high schools from Toledo Public, some of the parochial schools as well. Basically, man, we just got together and it was more like an educational thing. Ms Bates, it was a whole bunch of figureheads here in. Toledo, that kind of ran that, and it was basically like I said, it was an educational thing, but we got to go to conferences and things like that and, man, we had the time of our life at those things.
Speaker 1:Yeah, man, I remember I got thrown out of one of y'all's parties, man.
Speaker 2:Yeah, man, we liked the party. Yeah, yeah, you was raising a little sand. Well, I was with somebody else. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know what? I think I remember that man, we got to toss. Move out, man, yeah yeah, yeah, they didn't play man, they didn't play. Yeah, come there, have a good time man. Yeah, yeah, keep it cool, keep it cool.
Speaker 1:So how old were you, guys, when you finally tied the knot?
Speaker 2:Oh, wow, we got married. What was it? 25, 26? My oldest is 25. So, yeah, we got married in 05. Okay, 05. So we've been married what? 20? 20 years? Yeah, yeah, that's a blessing. Man it is, man it is.
Speaker 1:And then. So you got three daughters right.
Speaker 2:Three daughters, yes. Three daughters, yes, yes.
Speaker 1:Now, that's what I kind of wanted to get into really today, man, because I have four daughters, mm-hmm, but so no sons, right?
Speaker 2:No sons, no sir. I always say it's like the game of baseball Three strikes you out, three strikes Didn't get no balls pitched.
Speaker 1:So I was going to ask you like what was the decision not to keep trying? You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2:Well, three at the time, man, we had Caitlyn. That was our last one. And we figured man, you know what? This family is big enough, yes, sir, yeah, this is good, right here.
Speaker 1:Yes, sir, so yeah, so that's kind of what I get to man, just because I'm a fellow girl dad myself, man, and yeah. So tell me this, like when, so when your first daughter came, like did you feel like you knew what you was doing or like like you got this little person? Right, you know it's a female, but it's like, like, how do you, you know, what do you do with one of those right?
Speaker 2:yeah, so I mean this basically, man, this is you learn on a, you know on the fly, almost. Um, we was given, like you know. I looked at my parents, of course, how they raised me and whatnot, and I know we're living in a different time. Things that worked for us may not work now, but at the same time, I know the base of growing up. My parents had me in church life. Okay, okay.
Speaker 1:And so that in church life.
Speaker 2:Okay, okay, and so that worked for me. Yes, sir, right. So raising kids, daughters, whatnot? That's where they're going to be on. Sunday yes, sir, same thing. So you get that base and as they get older it's going to come back to them when times get rough and whatnot. Right, you know what I mean. So that's one of the things I would say that helped us out a lot. Okay, yeah, we brought him up in church.
Speaker 1:Because I know you was a pretty no-nonsense guy, Like you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I had my moments, though. You know, I had my moments. You know, I loved to laugh growing up so anytime we can get a good laugh in no matter what man.
Speaker 1:I'm going to do it. Yeah, you did have some good jokes. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, so.
Speaker 2:I love to laugh, bro, and I'm still the same way now.
Speaker 1:Like I remember, like for me, like raising my daughters, man, it was like I had to kind of adjust because, like I remember, one time my daughter she got like a B or something on her grade card and I was like, yeah, that B is cool, you know what I'm saying. But next time, man, we just try to get that A man. She bust out, started crying like Dad. You don't know how hard I tried. Right right right and I was like oh, my fault.
Speaker 2:You know what I'm saying. I think that's just how girls are. You know what I mean're going to be overprotective. Yeah, even if you say yeah, you do you know, but at the same time, man, it's rough, you know, finding that fine line where you know you don't want to. You want to push them in the right direction, but you don't want to be too overbearing. Right? You know what I'm saying, and sometimes we'll get it. Sometimes we make yeah, man, I know it's a learning curve.
Speaker 1:I made a few mistakes man yeah, we all have Boss my kids around. We used to play video games when we was little, because I got married, I was 21, right.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, you were probably one of the first ones bro Right Out the group, I think.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, my thing was.
Speaker 2:I was like I think Kwame got married. Okay, Yep, Yep.
Speaker 1:Yep, I think what happened was with me the lifestyle I kind of was living like before I got married I felt like I was old man already.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know what I'm saying. We ran hard early so you know, we did yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:So I was like I was like 21. Like you know, I'm listening old man already Above the law.
Speaker 2:Yeah, above the law. Black Superman, yeah, yeah, yeah, you know what. I agree with you, man. Early, like 18 through 21, 22,. We got a lot of that out of our system right, yes, sir. And by the time it was time to settle down. I'm not missing anything.
Speaker 1:No, not at all. You know what I?
Speaker 2:mean yeah, it's the next step. We got kids, so it's time to grow up and do the man stuff. You know what I mean? Yeah, for sure, yeah.
Speaker 1:And I went. I went like I don't know. A lot of guys from my class went to school, or they went like to the military. But you know, I kind of kind of clear I didn't have, I was just trying to take care of myself, right. So it was like I'm going to go to work. You know school's cool. But I saw my brother he had went, my brother Mike had went to to Oklahoma and Mississippi.
Speaker 1:Okay, right for like because, just because, like all the big schools, but he was supposed to go there, but then he got hurt and he got out of the hospital after he blew his knee out and his stuff was sitting outside the dorm, you know what I mean. Oh, I see, so he had to catch the bus home, and then they sent my mom the medical bill for the surgery.
Speaker 2:You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1:Yeah rough, but then I knew what my mom the medical bill for the surgery. You know what I'm saying. But then I knew what my mom had went through for him to be in school trying to send him some money or care package. I was like I know he probably struggling. You know what I'm saying. I was like in my mind, I'm like I don't really want to go to school in the first place, but I'm not about to go somewhere far away and be barely, you know barely eat, yeah, not around your family.
Speaker 2:You know what I'm saying and be struggling.
Speaker 1:I just couldn't see doing that. I know that worked for you know some other guys and in the military I just had a hard time, people yelling at me and stuff. So like I was like Because even with football we had some old school coaches.
Speaker 2:You know what I'm saying? Better hurry up and know it. Coach Price, coach Woods, yeah, coach.
Speaker 1:T, I had to swallow. I had to bite my tongue a few times or just keep from not walking off Because I didn't want to quit. But that was interesting because I went to another school and it closed down. I went to MacHumber first for two years and then I came to Scott.
Speaker 2:But my brother Mike, he was Scott all through and through.
Speaker 1:So when it's time to go to Scott, I wasn't going to play sports. I wasn't going to. I was like I don't know them, like that I don't want this and that, so school hadn't going to. I was like I don't know them, like that I don't want this and that, so school hadn't started yet. And then I had a situation where I had stayed out all night one time and then I came home in an inebriated state.
Speaker 2:My mom was like you're going to?
Speaker 1:do something. You're not going to be running the streets getting drunk and doing this. So, you're playing football and I'm like I don't wanna play.
Speaker 2:So my older brothers right, they had pretty much bullied me into the car and dropped me off at practice, at practice.
Speaker 1:At workouts.
Speaker 2:We had evening you know evening workouts.
Speaker 1:But the funny thing was, I was crying like all the way to the to the.
Speaker 2:I don't wanna play you know, they jab me, elbow on me, all you playing.
Speaker 1:So the first day I guess I was looking too embarrassed and they went man, get back in the car. So we pulled up. So then the next day we was going to do the same thing again. But we got to the field they pretty much was like you was like man, you get to cry in a day. Man, we're going to beat you up out here, let's do a diet, yeah, so I hopped out the car man dried it up and just, you know, just went in there. Man, I'm glad they did that.
Speaker 2:I was about to say that probably was the best.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because you know, we had a lot of stuff to get into back, then, man no doubt, no doubt. So you know, we came up on the crack air and you know, everything was out. Everybody was outside put it like that. Oh yeah, that was pre-internet video games, and all that Cell phones.
Speaker 2:You want to see anything. You had to get outside.
Speaker 1:So that was the best decision, man, and then bonding with you guys. So then, when school started, man, it just made it. Like you know, I had a whole lot easier.
Speaker 1:I had some positive dudes. You know everybody did whatever they was doing but still we had at least that goal of athletics you know to hold on to Like. We got to go to practice so that keeps you out of some trouble. You got games on Friday night so I keep you out of trouble. So then we had to stay eligible so it kept us a little bit more focused during those times. And then, because I remember I played football and then wrestling and after that, like my third in the third fourth quarter boy, I used to be struggling.
Speaker 2:Yeah, getting close to the end, Yep yep, but like this.
Speaker 1:so for athletics, for me that was a big thing, you know. And then, um, I know, when I, when I have started raising my, my daughters, the natural thing for me was, like you say, like church so I had uh became a christian when I was um, when I was about 21, 22 maybe 21 yep and so that's why and there was an old school at the time, Pentecostal. So we was in church like all day Sunday, we had second service. Oh yeah, we had you know?
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah, you know, we came up.
Speaker 1:Like you know, that's back when you know somebody. Come into town, preach a fiery message. You're going home, you're throwing away your CDs. You know what I'm?
Speaker 2:saying yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Man, I can remember them days, bro, we was in church probably like four or five days out the whole week.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Whether it was with, you know, my parents Bible study. Junior choir rehearsal.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:You know that's where we was at, you know? So yeah, again, that helped out a lot.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I kept my kids at church you know, youth group and stuff like that. But then, like man, we had got. So first we started off doing Y sports like you know T-ball and soccer, you know stuff like that, and then they got basketball and then that turned into a whole you know travel thing and stuff like that. So did I know? Did all three of your daughters play sports?
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, they all started off, you know, basically when they was young they did the tumbling, gymnastic, tapping, jazz. They did all of that right and that's one of the things that I think helped us with raising our girl. Yes, keeping them active. Yes, you know, no downtime really. And yes, all three of them played my oldest two they had the opportunity to. Basically they kind of was close in age.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:A year and a half, two years apart. So they kind of played on the same teams until they got older.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And they did the travel softball Okay. And yeah, they got older, yeah, and they did the travel softball okay. And um, yeah, as they got older like uh, eighth, eighth grade freshman year, they kind of had to split, okay, you know, yeah.
Speaker 2:so every weekend, yeah, we hit in the road for sure. Sometimes we would go separate directions. You know my wife would go with one, I'll go with the other. Okay and um, at the time caitlin was just, you know we either she stayed at her grandparents or she just went with one of us, or whatnot, but it was that was a good time, though it was a good time we kept the girls busy. They was doing something they enjoyed doing and we had fun with it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we had fun with it and, like I said, man, keeping them kids, busy, you don't want to give them no idle time, because sometimes that's when you know bad things or you know you can get into stuff, yeah for sure. So, like I said, man, we we kept them really busy and, um, I tell you what, it didn't feel like it then, but that time flew by man doing that, you know, and just watching them grow up. Man go through their own little thing.
Speaker 1:It was yeah, so I know, from being being, uh, being, males like did you feel like you had to? How do you feel like the dealing with the wins and the losses and the failures or successes, or team politics or you know different, how can I put it?
Speaker 2:Personalities yeah, all of them are All that stuff, yeah and all those challenges we all have to go through, right and having girls, like I said earlier, you got to, you know. Just be tactful in how you approach them, you know. But I kept it real with them. You know, hey, if it's your weekend, you stunk it up, you stunk it up, you know what I'm saying, yeah but you know you're going to have games like that, you got to understand that and you just battle back and come back and play hard the next game.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because that don't mean like when you have a bad performance, that don't mean that you're bad as a person. It just means that it wasn't your day.
Speaker 2:Yo, the pros go through that. You know the pros have bad days. So if they have bad days, what makes you think you're not going to have?
Speaker 1:one.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean. So it's just a part of life, part of playing sports you bounce back from that and that kind of help out with your character a little bit. For sure, 100%.
Speaker 1:I think, as dads, man to help them deal, because men we come from a different perspective, because I know when my kids was little they had a rough day at practice. They were sore this or that. My wife because she didn't. She think she did track for a while but her mentality was well, if you don't want to do it, don't do it. And I was like nah, nah, yeah, man, it's going to be days where you don't want to do it.
Speaker 2:You're going to be crying.
Speaker 1:You're going to be thinking something wasn't fair. You're not being treated right, but at the same time, that's something that you want to do. You don't let nobody else you know take it from you that's right, that's right even one, uh, my middle, one of my middle daughters like she had wanted to play like, um, like college, right, but it had got to a point where, like, do you want to play or do you want to be chose?
Speaker 1:that's a different thing yeah, like you love basketball like you're going to play that regardless. You're going to go if you've got to walk on. Or I know some of the smaller schools. They started doing almost like a JV track where you play for a couple years and then you work your way to varsity, even at that level.
Speaker 1:So we have visited a few schools, and one school in particular. They were willing to give her, basically, a. It was a Christian school, Okay, and their thing was we want our school to reflect God's kingdom, Okay. So it was primarily, you know, a white institution. But they said, like we're not going to tell you how much money we're going to give you, but trust me, if you choose to come here, you know it's not going to tell you how much money we're going to give you, but trust me, if you choose to come here, you know it's not going to be a basketball scholarship but your tuition probably be.
Speaker 1:You know, we can get it close to covered as we can, and she had made a decision to where she didn't want to. She didn't want to like go through that uncertainty of not knowing you know what the amount was and what this was, what that was. But I was just you can play, but if you don't, that's okay, but just be doing it for like really reflect and think and do it for whatever reason and once you make peace with it you know I'm good with it.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:Yep, yeah. So then your daughters are they playing?
Speaker 2:Yeah, oh yeah, the oldest two. Both of them they got scholarships, just like you said. My oldest one, she went to Concordia and it was like a Christian university or whatnot and, yeah, she went down there. She played first couple years and it was an adjustment for being down there.
Speaker 1:It's culturally.
Speaker 2:yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yes, it ain't a lot that look like them you know what I mean. So it was an adjustment and I think one of the major things that took place while she well, both of them was in school was COVID hit. Oh man, when COVID hit, that kind of changed the whole dynamics of college sports, you know, with them anyway, and they decided, you know, I think they had got started, they maybe played one tournament and then they healed the rest of the season.
Speaker 2:It was over with, and you know that took a lot out of them. Yeah, um, and they decided, you know, at that point, after the covid thing was over with, she just said look, I just want to go to school, I don't, you know, want to play sports, no more. So hey if that's your decision, you're just gonna have to live with it. Yeah, you know, and we're still here to support you.
Speaker 1:Yes, sir like a funny story. Like my other middle daughter, she had knee surgery, I think eighth grade. She tore her meniscus and so she battled back and rehabbed and she started playing again. But her knee would swell up a lot, yeah. And then she might get mad at me for saying this. But then she got a boyfriend, I think like 10th grade.
Speaker 2:Got one of them, little Thundercats, so yeah.
Speaker 1:So I think you know going to practice and you know, like I said, being a shit like that, just you know my knee, you know I can't move like I used to, it just ain't for me. But then, man, she winds up her picking up shot put and almost she was like one meter away from like qualifying for the state. Oh wow, I said, man, all this money, I'm putting a basketball.
Speaker 2:I said you gonna throw this metal ball. You even told me you wanted to throw a rock.
Speaker 1:I could have got you a little personal trainer. Yeah, we'd have been on the road.
Speaker 2:That's them things, man. You kind of just got to roll with it. It could change overnight with them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, man, you can't tell Right and if that's what you want to do.
Speaker 2:Like I said, we're going to support you. You're just going to have to live with your decision. So I don't want to hear I should have stuck with it.
Speaker 1:Hey man, you had the opportunity you know we ought to have been there. We all know.
Speaker 2:You know what I'm saying so, just another thing we have to learn. As we you know get older or whatnot yeah.
Speaker 1:So let me ask you, like so, when you had all right? So I know you work for oil refinery, right? Yes, so what? How'd you decide? Because your job, a lot of people might not know it, man, but it's a dangerous job.
Speaker 2:Oh, very very dangerous.
Speaker 1:You got to be on point. There ain't no slouching or lounging around, no playing that stuff. So how'd you get introduced to that field, or you know something like you know, well, I had my nephew.
Speaker 2:he worked for BP and he had told me, man, whenever they have their next hiring class or whatnot, he would let me know. And then I had another brother, older gentleman, that was important, brother Grace. He used to work out there at BP too. So he told me you know, hey, if you ever get on out there and you need somebody you know to speak on your behalf, I would love to do it. So both of them, you know, I had both of them in my corner and I was able to get in. And it's not easy, man. I think our first initial test man it was probably like thousands of people in there applying for that job and making through all of that.
Speaker 2:you know the hiring process is special.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because people don't know like, because we live in the Midwest so like manufacturing and different industries. It's like those are like careers for us. Like you know, you get on, like you said, like at an auto factory at that time or with the city at that time or you know, like um or like your job, like oil refinery, like those are. The were really like coveted positions. You know, because you have, you know, decent benefits and vacations and, you know, especially trying to raise a young family it's like we want some stability, man yeah yeah, oil refineries, you guys weren't like subject to a bunch of layoffs and other that of stuff, were you?
Speaker 2:No, the biggest thing I think happened since I've been there, we did go on strike. Okay, yeah, contract negotiation and things like that. We did have a strike.
Speaker 1:How long was it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, how long was it now?
Speaker 1:It lasted like four to five months.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, yeah, for real, yeah yep, yep, but we found a way to get through that as well. Yes, sir, but that job is raising a family and working at a refinery. It's kind of difficult because you do work, you put in a lot of hours and you work a swing shift and sometimes your sleep gets thrown off so bad you find yourself on your off day. After you don't work nights, you stand up all night because your body is so used to being up and amped up during that time it's hard to fall asleep. So getting your rest is critical. You don't want to be at that job and woozy and you're not on point, because anything can go wrong and it will. So you got to be prepared for all of that and the training and everything we had prior to getting that job. It was on point yes, sir.
Speaker 2:It was on point, but it's things that we got to do ourselves to, you know. Keep us that way. Try to work out, stay up on your health. Like I said get your rest when you can, and yeah, but the thing about it is it requires so much time. It's going to be some events you're going to miss out on as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, man, I know what you mean.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's going to be some things you're going to miss out just because you got to go to work. It's going to be some stuff I'm going to make as well. Yes, sir.
Speaker 1:I know, because I work with juvenile average boys, I know I'm like the primary caregiver right A lot, so I'm like the primary caregiver, right.
Speaker 1:So a lot of things that I try to instill in them is mostly like you're talking about as a work ethic. Yeah, because I feel like if you could have a willingness to work, you always going to find yourself, you know, in a place where you could take care of yourself. Yes, but if you're always looking for a way out like I got a couple boys like might not want to get up for school in the morning I'm like, hey, man, we got to go you hardly sleep.
Speaker 1:Last night Couldn't sleep. I'm like that's how it is, man, you're a grown man. It's going to be days where if you got a family or if you got things going on, you're not going to get no eight hours of sleep. You know what I'm saying. Especially, you're trying to like for our industries. When I was growing up, blue-collar fields like everything is you trade in time for money, so to speak. So if they offer an overtime, you know you're going to get it.
Speaker 1:You know that time and a half that double time on certain days, on a weekend, on Sundays. So you're going to take those opportunities because that's how you get more for your family.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:And I remember my wife was in school for a while and I was working third shift but we was sharing a car.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So I'd get off work, take the kids to school and she had to go to school, Like sometimes, I'd just recline the seat back, fall asleep in the parking lot she'd get out of class. You know, run her somewhere. Then go get the kids from school. The next thing you know you might have to help them with their homework or run them to practice. Now it's time for me to go back to work. I might have just got that nine off time in the car.
Speaker 2:You know what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah, it's sacrifices man, you make when that family is involved. You do what you got to do to make it work, and definitely so where did you get that?
Speaker 1:Did you feel like that work ethic? You saw that model that comes from your dad, comes from your brothers. How did that? Because for me, just watching my grandparents, they instilled in me a work ethic. When I was 11 years old, my granddad sat me down. I was living with him. He was like, hey, you're going to have to get a job.
Speaker 2:I thought he was messing around. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1:So he showed up back there and they did a little checkbook. They had a little ledger it's a light bill, it's the gas bill, it's the grocery bill. You're old enough now you're going to have to get a job. So man ain't nobody going to hire me. Man, I tell the story all the time. Ain't nobody going to hire me, but grandma man had a, grandma had a deacon. We grew up I grew up Catholic, actually Okay. Deacon at the Catholic church. He knew a guy that had a restaurant.
Speaker 2:Next thing.
Speaker 1:you know I'm working, I'm bussing tables 3.30, 3.00 an hour. My granddad he was old school. If I was in the band I had a little trumpet. I was fifth grade. One day I came home my trumpet was gone. That horn ain't gonna pay no bills.
Speaker 2:Find another time to blow that Right.
Speaker 1:For me he was so gangster with it. Like okay, ain't nobody going to take care of me?
Speaker 2:I'm going to take care of myself.
Speaker 1:Ain't no time for games and you know certain things that's for pleasure. Like you know that's time out. So when I got married it was like, well, like I used to play video games and hang out and do all that type of stuff. But when I got married I started like scaling all that stuff back because I know I have responsibilities. Yes, yes, so for you like where did that like?
Speaker 2:how was that model for you? Easily, my parents, man. Okay, yeah, yeah, Since I can remember, they always worked right and my parents both came from the South. Okay, my mom came from Missouri and they came from the South during that late 60s 70s era where all the good jobs was up here, they came up here. My dad ended up eventually getting hired at Ford Motor Company in Woodhaven I just remember growing up man, seeing him and my mom go to work every day, routine.
Speaker 2:Whether they felt like it or not, and my mom go to work every day, yeah, routine, whether they felt like it or not, it was gonna work, you know? And that that that's instilled in you, right, you see that that's what you think it is. You know that's what I need to do when I get. You know what I mean. So, yeah, they definitely instilled that in me. Mom, she dealt with, uh, she worked like with the uh nursery schools and things like that all her life you know, and, yeah, I seen them go to work every day.
Speaker 1:Yeah, man.
Speaker 2:And that's again what I see.
Speaker 1:that's what I did you know I'm mimicking them in those areas and whatnot. Yeah, Cause we didn't, we didn't, we didn't think it was no alternative.
Speaker 2:No, it's you work or you don't eat, right? Yeah, that's what we were told you work or you don't eat For sure. And I love to eat, bro. I heard that Me too. Yeah, For sure, no doubt 100% man.
Speaker 1:So how did you know? As a dad, I know one of the hardest things for me was when you know my daughter started, you know, wanting to date you know what I mean held on to the reins real tight. My oldest, so then my second daughter, you know I ain't gonna say loosened up, but it seemed like she was like you know had a little easier road.
Speaker 1:And then my third one. You know she probably had the easiest, but how'd you deal with that, man? I know that was tough for me, man. I mean I had, you know. I think that's why I'm bald now, but no, I was going to be bald anyway.
Speaker 2:I'm with you bro, I'm with you.
Speaker 2:But, yeah, that's not an easy one. But growing up in a house man with three girls I honestly believe just from you know our how we reacted to each other, how we dealt with one another. I think my girls probably thought I was on the crazy end when it came down to that kind of stuff. You know what I mean. I wasn't crazy, but I would tell them, yo, when the time comes for you to date, just remember everything I'm trying to tell you now. You're going to have to apply that you don't know what tomorrow holds when it comes down to that dating. But you remain yourself and just remember what you've been told. The example is your parents.
Speaker 1:You're watching them. You know what?
Speaker 2:I mean, you see how your dad interacts with your mom and how he handles business when the time comes. Those are some of the things you're going to look at. As far as them back in high school, they hung around a unique group of kids and they all pretty much were, you know, athletes for the most part, and it was a group of males and females. You know, I remember they would come to the house, you know, or we order pizza from the eat and they would just sit and chill.
Speaker 2:They was, you know, respectable kids. Probably one time I had to tell one of the young men's, and I didn't do it in a way that was, I'm over him or trying to be an authority to him or whatnot, but I pulled him off to the side. I said, hey, man, you got to pull your pants off while you're here and just I was cool about it.
Speaker 2:And he was cool. He received it where he said man, I know my granny and my mom be on me about that too, yeah, yeah. So that's part of parenting. If you come over to my house, I'm going to treat you like you're one of my own, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1:No, for sure 100%.
Speaker 2:And, like I said, they ran with a group that was real respectable. So I didn't mind dealing with them. Kids, you know what I mean. Growing up. That's awesome man, and as far as my, I think they was out the house when they actually had boyfriends. Rob Markman.
Speaker 1:Okay, rob Markman, you know what?
Speaker 2:I mean, and so it's no easy way to cover that.
Speaker 1:It's going to happen. You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:You just get your mind right and be ready for it when it do.
Speaker 1:Rob Markman and, to be honest, man, the day and time we live in now for me I'm like, yeah, it's good that it happens.
Speaker 2:They do date. You know what I mean. It's a part of life, man.
Speaker 1:Being with athletics you know what I'm saying you see different things and people choose different lifestyles and things of that nature. So I'm like I can tell my youngest she's 12. Now I got a whole devil like hey, you know, it's okay if you're like a little boy, just don't be trying to do nothing strange with him.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, no doubt, no doubt, no doubt, trying to give her a game.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's that conversation we all have to have with him. It's okay to feel. You know you got a little butterfly or something, that's all right, right, right, you're supposed to, but we was there, hey we're teaching you and let you know things you need to do, and not do?
Speaker 1:Yeah, for sure. But I know one of my daughters in particular. She's a grown-up man, adult. She's a successful young woman, but she said she had a hard time sometimes with some of these young men because they feel like she's not passive enough. I don't know if that's what they said, but they blame it on me, blame it on your dad, you're like a little dude or something. No, no, just because she have no nonsense or she not real giddy.
Speaker 1:if she got an opinion, she's not to be disrespectful but she intelligent, she have conversations, or there's like ain't no such thing as just man talk and woman talk, like no more, like hey, we all have ideas, you know she have conversations. Or you know there's like a and no such thing as just man talking, woman talk, like no more. Like hey, we all have ideas, we are bringing something to the table and there's nothing wrong with having those discussions.
Speaker 1:But I told her, I said well, you know those dudes you know, if they can't handle, like you know, just some somebody you know to have their own money, have their own stuff. And then now you you know to have their own money, have their own stuff.
Speaker 2:And then now you, you know you're just not going to just throw away your identity because you know you dating a guy. So you know she says she, you know she have any.
Speaker 1:You kids have any problems like that?
Speaker 2:Oh, definitely, definitely, and I don't that's no nonsense. You know, when you at their age, you know early 20s, you got to be on the lookout for the foolishness. You know what I mean and sometimes you got to be like you know if I pick up on something that I don't like or I think is questionable for them, for the young lady you're going to roll with it, Right, and if they can't deal with your, you know you being outspoken a little bit, not too much but you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1:You hold your own identity or whatnot.
Speaker 2:You hold your own identity or whatnot, and there's somebody out there for everybody. You just probably ain't found them yet.
Speaker 1:Right 100%.
Speaker 2:So you keep it going, you keep being yourself, taking care of yourself, and when that time comes for that right man, you'll know it yeah for sure You're going to know it too, oh man. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, man, that's like. You know, dads, we had to navigate. You know when you you have to navigate with your girls, especially just what the expectations are, but then I still let them know. If they do stuff that I don't agree with, that don't mean I don't love you, or we still can't talk Because I'd rather not agree with you you being my daughter than some of the decisions that you're making, than just to close, I don't want you to never feel like you can't talk to me?
Speaker 1:Yeah, because you know there's so much going on in the world right now, but when you come to me, though not dealing with it, you got to roll with that too.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know what I'm saying. That's one of the things I try to you know, instill in them. You know, if you do something, be able to explain why you did it, and that's going to let you know right then and there, maybe, if it was wrong or right. If you can tell me why you did it, we can talk about it. We can always be able to talk about it. But just make sure, when you come to me with something, or if you need some advice.
Speaker 2:my door is always open, yeah for sure, and just you know. Open your mouth and say something, even if I sense something ain't right. I'm going to sit you down. Hey, how's everything going? You know, if I feel something a little off with you, I'm going to question you about it. You know, you ain't your normal smiley self. What's going on with you? Right? As fathers that's you fathers we pick up on stuff like that. Especially with them, girls, man.
Speaker 1:I feel like God gave us a certain grace too. Yes, I agree, he gave us that discernment to understand something Even if you don't say nothing. That's what people don't realize. As a man, I pray for my girls, man Every day. You want to protect. You want to always be that go-to guy. Because you want to protect, you want to always be that you know go-to guy. But you got to understand that you know God's the only one really could you know protect just right.
Speaker 2:We like little on the spectrum of the world.
Speaker 1:As far as like man, you got to keep them because I know they out of my covering, no doubt. Please, you know, just just guide them and keep them safe. Man, that's as a dad, I think that that's, that's one of the strongest things that you know. I believe a man can have, you know, as a relationship with God oh yeah, especially having a family, yeah there's been a lot of days where you know I don't know what to do. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2:I don't have it. I didn't have an answer.
Speaker 1:Right, I'm like, well, you're going to have to help me with this one, cause I'm, you know, and even in a way that I want to deal with certain things. Like you know, I still got a family, so you know you can't just jump off the porch like we would. Just call up the fellas, you know and just handle it.
Speaker 2:Hey, I agree with you 100% on that. You know it's not easy. You know, it's not always easy, and then, like you said, when they're not in our sight and they're off on their own, the best thing we can do is just, you know, continue to pray for them right.
Speaker 2:And leave it there Because like I said, man, some of us, when we're at work you really can't be worried about other things. You got to focus on what you need to focus on and vice versa, when you're at home, leave that work stuff at work. But you know, with them, girls, bro, I worry just because sometimes I know how it is out here right now.
Speaker 2:I see what's going on in the world and every time you turn around it's something crazy going on and uh the last thing I want to do is, you know, hear something about one of my, my girls you know so yeah, every day I get up, man, I have to, you know. Ask her, hey, take care of them yeah, and I'm gonna leave it in your hands and I ain't gonna worry about it. I'm gonna get through my day and I know you're gonna do what you do, right for sure. So I feel you on that, yeah, for sure, 100%.
Speaker 1:So this is Two Cups Cafe man no doubt. I call it, you know, two cups one for the wake, one for the work. You know I came up with that like a few years ago. Like I said, I take care of young men, so I'll find myself before I wake them up from school or it's still dark outside. I make my coffee and I'm drinking that first cup.
Speaker 1:But while I'm drinking, that first cup I'm just kind of meditating and kind of just you know, just see what I'm looking forward to, what I'm kind of marinating on, and then, by the time I get that second cup, now it's time for the work.
Speaker 1:So it's one for the wake, one for the work. But I always try to ask my guests like what's your wake and your work? Like when you get up in the morning, what's kind of leading you and what are, like what's next steps, or what you dreaming about, what's you know as far as for yourself or your family, and then in the work, what things are you can you see putting in place to you know, get to make that happen.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so, like you said, man, when you wake, of course, first thing I do is, you know, give thanks. Yeah, and you know that's my way of saying. You know, hey, I woke up this morning. Yes, sir, I got my job to do, I got my family to look after and we about to get this done no matter what. Yes, sir, you know what I mean, and just knowing that you know it's people depending on you is enough to keep you pushing.
Speaker 1:You know what I?
Speaker 2:mean it's people that I got to make sure they eat, I got to make sure they're protected, and that in itself, man, that's enough for me. Like I said, it was different when we grew up 20s and we just working for ourselves hey, I don't want to work there. Do I go get?
Speaker 1:another job. It's just me.
Speaker 2:I don't require that much but as being a man and growing up, realizing you have a family to you know, take out, take care of. That's the motivation, all the motivation I need in the morning when I get up knowing that, yeah, I'm a making, they are too. Yes, sir, yeah.
Speaker 1:I like that man. So so you would say, your family is what keeps you no doubt motivated, no doubt, I mean, it don't matter how. For me I've noticed, like don't matter how old like my, my children are, like I still have one at home, I know you have one at home too.
Speaker 2:But senior.
Speaker 1:It's just like man that is motivation. Like like even my wife, like like she motivates, motivates me, because I know know she's not the type of person that like gimme, gimme, gimme.
Speaker 2:But I want to do for her. I want to take her to nice places.
Speaker 1:I want to experience life. You know different experiences, so it's like that motivates me too, and I know you like spending time with your wife.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we done ran into each other while we out right and hooked up a few times. So, yeah, man, we, yes, yes indeed Love going to. Like I said earlier, man, I love to check out a new restaurant and things like that. So, yeah, I look forward to that kind of stuff.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I know we, you know we got some. Our class is, you know, pushing 50 right now.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:A. Our class is pushing 50 right now. A lot of us turned 50. A lot of us about to turn 50. How did you look at the age we are now, say, in your 20s? Is it what you imagined? Is it better than you imagined? Rob Markman, you know what man?
Speaker 2:It's funny, you ask that I can remember being in 20s and looking at somebody that was 50. They old man, that's old man, that's old man. But guess what? You, that old?
Speaker 1:guy now right.
Speaker 2:I'm 50, but I don't feel 50. You know what I mean? That's just how I was back then. Look at this old dude. You know what I mean. Wouldn't be in disrespect, but I'm just saying you know. But now, fortunately, we made it this far.
Speaker 1:The B-50, and still here, so that's a blessing in itself. Rob Markman Jr, I know like me I got this gray beard. Sometimes people think I'm older than 50, but, I, remember I thought 40 was old man, my martial arts instructor I. We had a birthday party like a gag party for him when he turned 40. Like all his students, we all bought him like old fart cards. You know what I'm saying. Dog that cat out man, oh man, we let him have it.
Speaker 2:And he was 40. But man, you know that.
Speaker 1:I mean, I remember thinking like you four, like you like but 50?
Speaker 2:yeah, I know bro, I know yeah it's an adjustment, but at the same time, man, like I said, man, we here at 50, that's a blessing man, I'm so blessed man because?
Speaker 1:because how could I put it? Like I didn't necessarily, I didn't plan to be 50, so like it was only the last, maybe since I was 40, I was like you know, when you go into life and you have plans, I'm going to just take care of these kids, I'm going to take care of my wife, I'm just going to pay these bills. I didn't have like a strategic you know retirement plan or nothing like that.
Speaker 1:You know what I'm saying but then it was like just by the grace of God he allowed me to be like kind of redeem the time a little bit from when I wasn't. You know like I eat better now than I used to.
Speaker 2:You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1:Try to look after myself more because it's like, well, I'm still here. I kind of like being here.
Speaker 2:Yeah, really don't want to go nowhere no time soon, right, right? So yeah, let's make sure we make it.
Speaker 1:So we here let's do it, yeah, so tell me about I mean, I know you what you've been doing, like as far as like in your grown man, your grown grown man years, and make trying to. You know, eat right, okay, um try to hit that gym whenever I can yeah and just you know, take it easy, man.
Speaker 2:And um, you know, like I told you earlier, we got a senior in the house so she's gonna be in somebody's school right and uh, so we're gonna be empty nesters besides you know what I'm saying having the dogs here with us. So I'm looking forward to that time and just to start, you know doing I'm saying having the dogs deal with us. So I'm looking forward to that time, man, just to start, you know doing a whole lot more traveling and things like that, you know?
Speaker 1:You got any bucket list places you want to go?
Speaker 2:Honestly not really Okay. I just I enjoy traveling. Don't get me wrong, but I really like the last minute spur of the moment type. Yeah, let's just go. Yeah let's go somewhere. I look forward to things like that. You know what I mean, and, like I said, when we become empty nesters, it's going to be a lot of that. I'm looking forward to them days. Get your bag, girl, let's go, let's go. You know what I mean. I'm looking forward to that.
Speaker 1:I was able to mark off one of my bucket list places, man, this past year, like my wife knew, but a lot of people didn't know Like I always wanted to go to the Grand Canyon.
Speaker 2:Grand Canyon. Yeah, oh wow, it was just like I never knew why. Yeah.
Speaker 1:But I just wanted to go to the Grand Canyon.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and she's like you, finally got to get to the Grand Canyon.
Speaker 1:I was like, yeah, man, we had an awesome time. Man Went to the Grand Canyon. I got a chance to go out to the Sedona. They had all the red rock structures and stuff like that. And so we spent a whole day and we went to a Native American reservation and stuff like that, and then, while I was out there, we got a chance to hook up with one of my homeboys, damon Sutton.
Speaker 2:D Sutton yeah, he lives in Tempe yeah.
Speaker 1:So we got a chance to eat some good food, hang out with him and his wife, oh man. And then that Sunday when they got to see the Detroit Lions whip up on the Cardinals, cardinals, man, wow bro. But my friend Rob. He said I'm bad luck though for the Lions back home, because the only two home games I made it to this year they lost both of them. He's like man, you stay your buddy at home.
Speaker 2:Oh man, I went to the.
Speaker 1:Buffalo Bills. They lost to them, and then they wind up losing to the Washington Commanders. Man, oh, okay, okay, okay, oh man.
Speaker 2:You know what was ironic man? Oh, okay, okay, okay, oh man. You know what was ironic man? About three weeks ago, we actually took my youngest daughter to Arizona oh, okay, and she went to go visit Arizona State.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and then the University of Arizona.
Speaker 2:So we was just down there and, dude, it's just beautiful out there.
Speaker 1:Man it's nice, man it's nice.
Speaker 2:Yeah, just you know, traveling get to see all the scenery, like the mountains and stuff you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that was nice.
Speaker 2:It was nice. Yeah, it was nice too because you know, we from the Midwest, so most of our stuff is flat. Yeah, you know. So, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Just like I said man, yeah, he doing nice out there. Man, we went to Scottsdale, okay, Hung around. He took us to some places, got some good food. Oh God, man, I should have. And the thing that made it so crazy was I wound up apologizing to him while I was out there. I was like man, you've been living here 20 years. Yeah, it's my first time.
Speaker 2:Because he always come home.
Speaker 1:You know what I'm saying that's a good friend of mine. He always come home, we hook up. You know, get some Gino stop by his mom's and his sister's and all that. But I was like man, you've been living out here 20 years, man.
Speaker 2:This is my first time, you know, checking in. You know how he's like, oh man.
Speaker 1:Families and this, and that I was like nah man, my bad bro, it ain't going to take me another 20 years to see about you out here.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I remember when he came home because I forgot where I was at. I had ran into a big trip and Dana and I think she had said then he was going to be home, but I think the weekend he was here or that week he was here. My work schedule was jacked up and I couldn't get away.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I wanted to see dude man. It's been a minute I don't think we've seen each other since high school.
Speaker 1:Yeah, talk about somebody like to laugh. Oh yeah, oh yeah, oh yeah, oh yeah. I remember those days, man, oh man.
Speaker 2:Good old days, yes, sir.
Speaker 1:Yes indeed, Like I said, man, I just am grateful that we was able to do the 30-year reunion thing, we got a chance to break bread a couple times since then. I just want to bring you by and have this conversation because I think that dads are man, are so important. When I think about fathers and I think about you know, stand-up guys, man, you're like one of the first images, you know in my mind when I think about that man.
Speaker 2:So I was like man, I want to have Joe on man we can just talk about you know, raising our families and just being dads, man, man, hey, dude, I appreciate that man, and you yourself as well you know, you're doing your thing, man, very proud of you. Oh man, yeah, I look at where you know, 30 years ago, where we were at you know saying then we're still here yes sir, and and we're doing it. You know what I'm saying. Making it happen for our families, making it happen for ourself. Yeah and um, yeah, bro, I'm, I'm very proud of you, man, oh man, I appreciate it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no appreciate that man no doubt, no doubt, no doubt.
Speaker 1:And Taylor Mrs man, we look forward to hanging out with you guys, man.
Speaker 2:We're going to make it happen. We're going to make it happen, we're going to make it happen. Definitely you do the same, bro. Yes, sir.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So, man, just as I'm closingdogs, man, yeah, 2400, baby 2400 in Hollywood. You better believe it. Yeah, and I appreciate it, man.
Speaker 2:Appreciate the invite, bro. Yes sir. Anytime man, anytime yes sir.
Speaker 1:All right, this has been Two Cups. Man Just like subscribe, share. We just have good conversations with good people, man, and just hopefully that's something to say that it could spark something and encourage somebody to keep going. And until next time, two cups peace.
