Family Health by Mini First Aid

Episode 40: Breast Cancer

• Mini First Aid • Season 1 • Episode 40

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Breast cancer is the most common cancer in the UK, affecting 1 in 7 women in their lifetime. Yet, many people still believe it’s a disease that only affects older women. The reality? 2,500 people under 40 are diagnosed every year.

In this episode of the Family Health Podcast by Mini First Aid, host Kate Ball speaks with Paralympic champion Erin Kennedy OBE and Emma Walker from the breast cancer awareness charity Coppafeel! Erin shares her powerful story of discovering a lump at just 29, her journey through treatment, and her extraordinary return to competitive sport. Emma provides essential guidance on breast health, including:

✅ The importance of checking your chest regularly and knowing your normal
✅ Common misconceptions about breast cancer and who it affects
✅ Signs and symptoms to look out for, including those that are often missed
✅ How pregnancy can impact breast cancer diagnosis
✅ What to do if you find something unusual

Early detection saves lives, and this conversation is a must-listen for every woman, mum, daughter, and friend. Checking your chest is quick, simple, and could be life-saving.

References:

Connect with Erin Kennedy here on Instagram

Find out more about Coppafeel!

Sign up for Coppafeel!’s monthly check yourself reminder

Download the leaflet Your Breasts During and After Pregnancy

Find out more about Triple Negative Breast Cancer and other types of cancer here at Cancer Research UK

Find out more about Mummy Star - cancer support in pregnancy

Find out more about breast cancer treatments including the different types of chemotherapy treatment here

Cancer treatment prehabilitation advice

Coppafeel’s guide to breast cancer signs and symptoms

Find out more about fundraising for Coppafeel! including how to join a Coppafeel! trek here.



Mini First Aid Family First Aid Kit - Platinum Award winning first aid kit, voted a Best Buy in the Loved By Parents Awards 2021, is a comprehensive first aid kit for all the family. Containing 115 essential items, it is ideal for keeping in your car or at home for any first aid emergencies

Find out more about our multi award winning two hour Baby & Child first aid classes here, delivered in a relaxed and comfortable style to give you the confidence to know what actions to take if faced with a medical emergency

Find out more about our NEW first aid awareness for adults classes here; just two hours of your time to learn life-saving skills.

For press enquiries and to contact Mini First Aid, email info@minifirstaid.co.uk


Series 4 of the Family Health Podcast by Mini First Aid is sponsored by Things Happen, a trusted broker which offers the best financial advice to help parents and their families make informed decisions, ensuring a secure and

SPEAKER_02:

Welcome to Family Health by Mini First Aid. Mini First Aid are the UK's leading family first aid provider and we are delighted to bring our latest podcast series to you, giving you all the information that you need around family health subjects. Thanks for joining. The Family Health Podcast is brought to you in partnership with Things Happen, a trusted financial advisor that supports new parents and their families. Things Happen offer the best advice to help parents and their families make informed financial decisions, ensuring a secure and tax-efficient future for their children. The team at Things Happen are highly qualified financial experts who will guide you through the different types of policies to consider as your family expands, taking the stress out of decision-making by finding the best deals for your needs, ensuring you and your family are protected no matter how busy life gets. If you already have life insurance, Things Happen will carefully review your existing policy to ensure that it still meets your family's evolving needs so you know your family is fully protected. Hello, I'm Kate and I'm the founder of Mini First Aid and welcome to our podcast Family Health by Mini First Aid. Have a listen to us instead. Now I'm thrilled, I'm over thrilled, this is really exciting for me this week's episode because I'm thrilled to introduce our guest this week. We have Paralympic champion Erin Kennedy, MBE I should add, who was diagnosed with breast cancer in 2022 and Emma Walker, Health Information Manager at the breast cancer awareness charity Copperfield. Now, I had the privilege of taking part in one of Copperfield's epic, underline epic, Brecon Beacons Treks this year. And I was raising money to support Copperfield in memory of a lovely friend of mine who passed away from breast cancer in 2023. And that is where I met Erin and I also got to know Emma. So a very warm welcome to the Family Health Podcast, ladies. It's lovely to see you both.

SPEAKER_01:

It's lovely to be

SPEAKER_02:

here. Right, I'm pleased. I'm so pleased you could be here today because not only are we going to do our very bestest to raise awareness of breast cancer and the importance of checking yourself, and there's more on that later, but also for anyone who is listening who is currently battling breast cancer or supporting a friend or family member to provide a message of hope, inspiration and all that important narrative. You are not alone. So ladies, can we kick things off by telling our listeners a little bit about you and what you do Erin, tell us a little bit about yourself.

SPEAKER_01:

Ah, so lovely to be here. Thanks so much for having me. My name's Erin, Erin Kennedy. I am a cox with the GB Rowing team. I have been on the national team for eight years now, which is scary because I still feel, ah, I couldn't be old enough. I've been there as a coxswain, yeah, just after Rio and I have had a really successful career, both in eighth and more predominantly in the Paralympic four. So as a copson, you know, I sit in this interesting dynamic between the coach and the athletes. I'm steering, I'm the strategy, I'm the team leader, psych, trying to get the best out of them in their biggest, most challenging scenarios, which is normally in the last couple of hundred meters of a 2K race. And I am, yeah, two-time Paralympic champion in Tokyo, in Paris. three-time world champion, four-time European champion, and I've got the world and power and fit record as well, which is quite nice to say, because we've just actually taken the world record this summer. But one of the reasons why I'm here is because just after Tokyo, I was diagnosed with breast cancer when I was 29, and I was really fit and healthy. I found a lump whilst I was in the shower. I was checking myself regularly. I knew what to look for, thanks to the amazing work of Copperfield. And I... I was diagnosed with triple negative breast cancer and I had then 15 rounds of chemotherapy and a double mastectomy. But I returned to international competition in May 23 and yeah, I've been back. Got the NED, which means no evidence of disease, and I'm back training, competing and at full health.

SPEAKER_02:

Amazing. Literally amazing. Amazing on all grounds there, Erin. Emma, introduce yourself to us. Tell us a little bit about yourself and what you do at Copperfield.

SPEAKER_03:

I will indeed. How to follow Erin? Not quite sure. But we are so lucky to have Erin on board and supporting our work here at Copperfield. I'm in the education team. I'm the health information manager. So that means I oversee all of our health information and how we're talking about breast cancer to our audience. So making sure it's accurate, relevant and easy to understand. and making sure it's supporting the Copperfield mission. So that is encouraging young people to check, educating them on signs of breast cancer, and empowering them to go and see their GP if they find something unusual or they notice that unusual change.

SPEAKER_02:

Brilliant. Now, Emma, tell me a little bit then about the commonality. So how common is breast cancer in the UK? And is there a demographic? Because sometimes people can assume that there is a certain demographic that is affected by breast cancer?

SPEAKER_03:

Yes, it's the most common cancer in the UK. So one in seven women will be diagnosed with breast cancer in their lifetime. And at the moment, the stat on an annual basis is 55,000 women and nearly 400 men are diagnosed every year with breast cancer. And another key sort of stat there as well, especially for us, is around 2,500 people are under the age of 40 when they're diagnosed. So every year that 2,500 number in the UK. And we make sure that people are aware that people of all ages, genders and ethnicities can sadly be affected by breast cancer. It's not... an older white woman's disease that sometimes that's the kind of message or the perception that people have but very focused on awareness and education so that if unfortunately somebody does find something and it's diagnosed it's diagnosed at an early stage so the outcomes are a lot better the treatment options are available for that person as well

SPEAKER_02:

Do you think Erin when you first found your lump did you think I'm too young because of that perception of it being a you know the demographic of it being an older woman's illness did you what was your first thought?

SPEAKER_01:

I definitely was aware that I was in the minority I think because of the work that Copperfield do and so originally when I first interacted with Copperfield it was probably at Freshers Fair I remember someone as we all know, just wearing a giant boob, wandering around, sort of passing out collateral and things like that. And then they actually, we had a boobette who came to my rowing club to deliver a talk. A boobette is someone who kind of volunteers for Copperfield and goes and delivers these talks in various club societies and basically anywhere where anyone's meeting, you can get a boobette to come and deliver some information. And so it was sort of in my, you know, in my subconscious I guess that it can happen and so when I was diagnosed it was a bit of a shock but equally I knew it happened. I also did have a little bit of family history and I think that also kind of made me particularly proactive about checking.

SPEAKER_02:

Emma's going to talk to us in a bit more detail about some of the finer details around signs and symptoms. But what were your initial concerns then, Erin? You found this lump. What was it like? What did it feel like? What did it then make you go do? So I

SPEAKER_01:

was actually on training camp at the time. I was having a shower. I found checking myself in the shower is generally the easiest thing to do because you're always killing a little bit of time when you put your conditioner in and you're just like, hmm, I know I need three to five minutes here. What can I do? And actually, that's where I found the kind of most convenient time. Obviously, as a professional athlete as well, I'm literally showering sort of two to three times a day. And so I was in the shower and I felt this lump and it was sort of just at the top of my breast and it felt like somewhere between sort of a broad bean kidney bean sort of size and it was one of those things that I knew hadn't been there before I knew what normal was because I checked regularly and I was like I've never noticed this before and then it's one of those weird things I think that when you found something you can't not notice it anymore you're like oh my gosh it was you know as if it was metaphorically the size of a tennis ball because it was like It was living rent free in my head being like, how did I not find that? And I knew that I needed to get it checked because I was like, this isn't normal. I was also on the pill at the time. So, you know, my breasts weren't particularly changing around my cycle. So there wasn't sort of that that element of of changes in my breasts. So it was actually arguably maybe even more easy for me to know what my normal was. So I went and got it checked when I got home. Because of being part of the rowing team, I had access to Bupa, which was really helpful, which meant I was seen very, very quickly because I actually had 10 days between coming back from this training camp and heading off to the World Cup. So I knew my turnaround was quite tight and I was lucky that because I had access to this private service, I was able to get there pretty quick and I had a biopsy done. And even with the oncologist checking and the biopsy, When you kind of have a biopsy, they generally grade it between sort of one to five, the radiographer. And one is, you know, almost definitely benign, three to five being pretty definitely cancer. And I was sat in a three. So, you know, the perfect on the fence, which I think you can actually have a look. I don't want to kind of misquote the figures, but I'm pretty sure that if you were a three, it's it's. it's under kind of 15% chance it is actually probably breast cancer. If I'm honest, I didn't research into it. I have only done that subsequently because ultimately I was going to get told the answer anyway. And then I had then the diagnosis about a week later when the doctor confirmed that it was triple negative breast cancer. And weirdly, that actual diagnosis meeting, it was, you know, you never think it will happen to you. But when I went into the room, to have the results of the biopsy there was a nurse sat in there too and that for me I kind of thought this is this is going to be cancer because I didn't understand I've had a I've had a lump check before and I've had it you know been benign and so to have a nurse there I was like I think you're here because you're going to need to support me in the next step and yeah I was right

SPEAKER_02:

Gosh. Now, you referred to your cancer as triple negative. Emma, explain to us clinically then, what is triple negative breast cancer? Because the cancers have names, right? And sometimes people might not be aware of cancers having names. So tell us about this triple negative.

SPEAKER_03:

They do. And just want to add, I'm not a clinician, but we do have a medical advisory group here at Copperfield. And also a point that... for anyone listening you don't have to become an expert yourself on all the different types you know we've got reliable places like cancer research uk and they've got all the information but triple negative yet is it's around 15 of breast cancers of this type and symptoms can be similar to other breast cancer types so you know erin with yours you mentioned it being a lump which often is the most common presenting symptom. And the thing with breast cancer, it is symptomatic. So there'll be something, especially if you're used to knowing your body and what's normal, there will be something that you think, I'm not quite sure about this. And it's called triple negative because it lacks the three modules, sorry, not modules, molecules called receptors. So all other types of breast cancer have at least one of these three receptors. whether that is the estrogen receptor, progesterone, or human epidermal growth factor, which you may see as the HER2 in abbreviation. So that's it in a nutshell. But as I say, breast cancer is that much like any other cancer types. It's that term because it's originated in the breast tissue area which does go right up to your collarbone into your armpit the whole area is breast tissue and we all have that all genders as i said it can affect men as well and um exactly as erin said you know incredibly proactive about your health it's really taking that next step um and and going and getting checked out going to the gp and um letting them know what you've noticed.

SPEAKER_02:

You talked about, or you've both used the phrase, knowing your normal. Just so that we're absolutely clear, what does that phrase mean, knowing your normal? I

SPEAKER_01:

mean, to me, I think that one of the biggest challenges, I think, with breast cancer or those sort of more intimate cancers as well is knowing everyone's bodies are different. Everyone's bodies present differently, whether we're talking about kind of, um, gynecological cancers and what your normal periods are, or we're obviously talking specifically here about breast cancer and what your breast makeup is and everyone's breasts feel different. I have been reassured, but I haven't felt many. And that's the issue, right? Like what is normal for me might not be normal for my sister or my mom or my friend. And some people have far more naturally, um, Lumpy breasts, dense breasts. And so, you know, the best person to be the expert in what your normal breast tissue is, is you. And so if you are regularly checking your breasts, those lumps and bumps, which are normal for you, you know, that might feel really different to someone else. But actually, then if the next time you check, whether it's a couple of weeks or a month later and it's changed, then you're that's when you need to put your hand up and go to the GP and say something has changed. And that, I think, by knowing what normal is to me means that you have the confidence when you feel something that you feel isn't normal to go and advocate for yourself with a healthcare professional.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, we talk about that gut instinct of knowing that something's not normal. And we talk about that a lot in all of our health and family teaching is that you have to be the advocate for your body, right? One of the, I know this isn't, Erin's story, Emma, but I just wanted to touch on the fact that one of the distressing or sort of lesser known things about breast cancer is it can happen in pregnancy. Can you explain a little bit more about that as well?

SPEAKER_03:

Sure, yes. And we actually developed a booklet to support people at that time. So it's called Your Breasts During and After Pregnancy. We developed it with the charity Tommies and that's a really good resource. It's called Pregnancy Associated Breast Cancer. If someone is diagnosed, that generally means during pregnancy or during the first year postpartum. It is rare, but it can sadly happen. And approximately one in every 3,000 pregnancies we're talking about here And of course, there are lots of natural changes happening at that time, which is why sometimes, unfortunately, it can be kind of picked up a bit later or kind of initially seen as pregnancy breasts, oh, this must be a natural change, when in fact, it's, again, you're not wasting the GP's time by just going and checking. And as Erin said, if you're aware of that normal and what has perhaps changed throughout your pregnancy and afterwards, it's again thinking, oh, I hadn't noticed this last time I checked. So we do really encourage that checking throughout pregnancy and afterwards. And as I said, there's things like the booklet where it talks about other conditions, whether that's things like mastitis, which can happen during and after pregnancy, But sometimes, you know, presenting symptoms of breast cancer can be similar. So that's where it's a little bit blurry and a bit tricky at times. But again, just getting to know what's normal there. And also just wanted to mention another organisation, Mummy Star, as they support people who've been affected by cancer during pregnancy. And we work closely with them. We're always keen to collaborate with other organisations and charities who are supporting people at what's an incredibly... stressful time at any point in life as well. And yeah, it would be a case of getting checked out. There are tests that won't, if you are pregnant, they won't cause harm to your baby. So again, go and see them and tell them everything, you know, when you first notice that change.

SPEAKER_02:

And Emma, what we'll do, just to add to anyone listening, is that in our show notes for today's podcast, all the links that we're talking about, all the references, all the places that you can go, we'll make sure that they're all in the show notes for you so that you can look those so you don't need to worry about writing them down right now. Now, I want to go back to you, Erin, because you had been delivered this devastating piece of news with a nurse sat in the room with you that you weren't anticipating being there. What happens next? Where does your story go next?

SPEAKER_01:

So what then happened is I needed to go into some fertility preservation before starting chemotherapy. So different breast cancers are treated in different ways. And my breast cancer with my oncologist ended up being what they call neoadjuvant chemo, which basically means chemotherapy before surgery. One of the reasons we did that was because my oncologist was quite keen to observe how the lump changed in response to the chemo because it gave him and then subsequently her a better picture of how my cancer responded to treatment before then removing it. And that obviously was kind of going to be a huge impact on my life and my lifestyle as an athlete. So The first thing I did was fertility preservation, which was all done very, very quickly. And Sam and I, my husband, we ended up with nine embryos frozen, which was amazing because not many people know, but chemotherapy can have quite a detrimental effect on your fertility, even if you are kind of put into early menopause to try and protect your ovaries. So I had that and then I started 15 rounds in total of chemotherapy. So I had, um, epirubicin and cyclophosphamide for anyone interested. It's called EC, very unhelpfully known as the red devil. Um, and, uh, I had that, uh, for, um, every other week, um, for two months. So four, four rounds in total. And then I had 11 rounds of, um, another type of drug, which was Paxotaxel every week. And then every third week had Carboplatin as well, just for those nerds out there who really want to know exactly what the different treatment was. And that basically took me all the way to Christmas. So I went from diagnosis in May 22 into chemotherapy in July through to December. So it was a really long slog. But weirdly, it was kind of nice to know, well, aside from kind of any delays due to bloods and things like that, and thankfully I only had two delays, that I was going to be done by Christmas. And so I sort of saw out the year finishing off chemo and having a couple of weeks to recover before I had a double mastectomy in the January of 23.

SPEAKER_02:

With your chemotherapy, how did you feel physically through your treatment? You're an athlete, Erin, so your body is already built to endure. But how did you feel physically through your treatment?

SPEAKER_01:

Um... I it definitely grew on me and that's obviously something that is so common with chemotherapy is it's a cumulative effect but I I think I cope pretty well I thankfully was never sick um I made sure I ate I had like you know eat loads before you have chemo because you may not feel like eating afterwards and we all know that if we're under fueled then uh we're not kind of expect we can't really expect our bodies to do do good things so I ate so many pots of porridge in the mornings before chemo um and I kept exercising as much as I could throughout I made sure I got outside every day went for a walk and obviously my capacity as I got further into the winter and you know the number of chemotherapy started racking up I was definitely really feeling it um it it's really interesting because I think if I could um take a snippet and look back at myself from November 22, I'd be like, oh my gosh, it's so different than me now. But because it is cumulative, I think it's actually not as stark. I think it's probably a really, really big change for those people who didn't see me much and then saw me once or twice with quite big intervals in between. They probably would have been quite shocked at my physical and kind of visual changes. But for me, obviously, it doesn't happen necessarily overnight. So it maybe wasn't quite as traumatic as maybe it would be if I kind of got a snapshot of me at the start of December. But it was, you know, it's a big, big toll on your body and 15 chemos is pretty significant.

SPEAKER_02:

And you lost your hair, correct? And you went to Sports Personality of the Year and chose not to wear a wig. Tell me about that.

SPEAKER_01:

I really thought being bold would impact me more. But I got to the point I just didn't care. I think that I think cancer is really bizarre. I think you spend a lot of time managing cancer. other people's emotions and other people's perceptions and feelings about cancer whether it's directly related to you or you know one and two of us will be impacted by cancer in our lifetime they're carrying some sort of burden baggage memory which they find difficult to deal with when presented with you who very obviously has cancer and as a result I think a lot of people who are going through cancer are hide away and there's quite a lot of weird guilt around telling people you have cancer even though you're the one who's dealing with it but you're putting it on someone else and it's very bizarre and I sort of thought actually what will this mean I hope to lots of people who are losing their hair who are in a similar situation to me to see someone going out on the red carpet completely bald but in a full ball gown Brilliant juxtaposition and um I felt quite confident at the time like I was a couple weeks out of chemo so I was feeling pretty good in the grand scheme of things better than I had done for months and I it felt really liberating and I think it was for me it's just a great kind of show of like actually like I'm still I'm still me I'm still a person and just because my you know, appearances change doesn't mean that, you know, you should be hiding away from the world or you can't go and do fun things.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, now you talked about also that once you'd had your 15 rounds of chemo, it didn't stop there because then you had to have major surgery. So you had to have a double mastectomy. So explain to everybody listening what that was, what happened to your body and, you know, what you experienced.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, double mastectomy, I think, has quite a lot of kind of a false narrative about it. And some people I think feel quite uncomfortable and they go, oh gosh, like a free boob job. And, you know, depending who they are, you can kind of laugh it off or, you know, I'm like, well, it is a double amputation and that really changes the narrative. And I didn't see it as that, but equally, you know, it is, it's literally removing a significant part of your body. But for me, I tried to kind of look at it in a way of, How lucky am I that I can have risk reducing surgery with the cancer that I do have? Because obviously I had breast cancer in one breast, but I found out through genetic testing that I have the BRCA mutation, which means that I am genetically predisposed. I am more likely to get breast cancer in my lifetime. So just because I had it once doesn't mean the rest of my life. cells went, oh, OK, we've done that now. Cool. Like all of those other cells have the potential to also develop into breast cancer. And my potential was greater than the average. So for me, it was an absolute no brainer to have that risk reducing surgery in the other breast. And I think it was it was definitely the best decision I could have made.

SPEAKER_02:

And you're from a recovery from having major surgery on your chest. And your job, Erin, you squeeze, I watched you, I watched you in the Paris Olympics, and you squeeze into this miniscule space. And just the thought of doing that when a part of your body, I'm sitting here, I'm sat here in my chair now, just holding my breath, because just that thought of having to do that, having had such major surgery on your chest, how do you recover that part of your body? How do you get well again in that area?

SPEAKER_01:

Well, I think this is so relevant to anyone who's kind of listening to this podcast, whether breast cancer is something you ever have to encounter in your life or not. But if you're ever having surgery, particularly if it's planned, do prehab and do the rehab. And it's boring and it's monotonous, but I promise it exists for a reason. I think my athlete brain... was like right I know that I'm having the surgery and I knew I was having the surgery from like six months out so I spoke to my surgeon I said what prehab should I do and there is an NHS guidance on prehab but that doesn't mean your surgeon doesn't have ideas and so I did a lot of lat work I stretched my pecs as much as possible because stretchy pecs are really useful because it makes sense they obviously want easy access to the breast tissue and And I did a lot of core work because you need to be able to rely on your core to sit up and move around because fundamentally, you know, mastectomy and then I had implant reconstruction. You're literally reconfiguring your chest. You're reconfiguring your chest wall. And. I did all my rehab and I was really good girl and I did all my rehab and that really helped me bounce back. And also just being as fit and well as possible going into surgery. And I know there's loads of evidence about kind of being fit and healthy because it means you recover quicker. You're less likely to have an infection. If you do get an infection, you will recover faster. And yeah, I can't stress it enough, you know, living healthily, even when you have something like this that comes along, will help you throughout, whether it's a chemotherapy or surgery or recovery.

SPEAKER_02:

Amazing. Erin, that's really, really fascinating, especially in your athlete mindset. And I've had people actually that know that I met you and walked with you that said, find out, find out where Erin's athlete mentality came in. And I think you've just sort of coined it there. And I want to come back to you just a second, because Erin is an ambassador and you working for the charity and all of those of us that have been involved in raising awareness of Copperfield and the work of Copperfield, talk about this checking your chest. because of this early detection of breast cancer. And Erin talked about checking her chest and knowing her normal. Can you talk us through what checking your chest means, what you have to do and what it is that you're looking for, feeling for, etc. And when should you do it? Can you tell us about that, Emma? I

SPEAKER_03:

can indeed, yeah. So you often, as you say, Kate, you hear us say about checking your chest and we encourage... breast awareness sometimes in the clinical world they'll still refer to it as self-examination but we're trying to move away from that because it was very prescriptive and to the point where it was prompting health anxiety and people were worried they weren't doing it right and therefore not checking at all so we are quite general with our guidance and we encourage people to find a healthy checking habit so Often here, it's in the bathroom. It's an ideal opportunity. Like you were saying, Erin, you've got a mirror there quite often. So it's about looking and feeling. So taking your time really, look at the whole area, have a good look. And again, as you get used to it, you'll know what things normally look like in the chest area and feel the whole area as well. So we can all fortunately check ourselves in that way. So look and feel. Get to know your normal, as we say. We encourage monthly checking, and that works really well, particularly with things like our text reminder service. So on the first of each month, we send a text. We all have very busy lives, trying to keep on top of everything and checking your chest on that monthly basis. Not to say you have to check on the first of each month, but you'll hear from Copperfield, and it will just be that nudge to go, okay, I need to check this month. make some time it's part quite often from our community we hear it can be part of a self-care regime or you're putting on moisturizer body lotion that kind of thing but trying to keep it in mind that it's it's a positive healthy checking behavior because you're getting to know your body you're not looking for cancer at that point you're looking and feeling your you know your own chest area and your body and That's essentially what we really encourage. We have the self-checkout web app, which is linked through our main website, copperfield.org. And that is really useful, especially if you're new to it. And don't worry what age you are now. If you're starting now, brilliant, great, you know, new habit that's potentially life-saving, as we've said. and it will take you through those. We are developing some new checking videos next year as well. We do have some of those currently, but where we've had a Jazzy brand refresh, things will look a little different, but the message remains the same really around checking. But lots of ways that you can refer back to things like the signs of breast cancer. So no need to memorize them. We've got all the resources with them Right there in front of you. So you can just be aware of those and go, okay, this is what the signs of breast cancer are.

SPEAKER_02:

Okay. And Emma, it's, I think when you... talk to people about checking some people will say whatever age they are gosh I've never done that and so you've just said right doesn't matter you need to start now effectively you need to start and also because of the what we know about what we always saw as a typical demographic for a white woman an older woman and that's not the case we're seeing breast cancer represented across all demographics. So Erin, you talked about in university, the fact that you saw Copperfield boobettes and you saw Copperfield ambassadors at Freshers Week. So most people are going off to university in their late teens and early twenties. So that's when they need to start, right? That's when we need to start checking our chest. Is that right?

SPEAKER_03:

yes we um we we would say from 18 our target age group is 18 to 24 and that's okay around the age that um at secondary school age is the the earliest that our volunteers like our boobettes would go in and give talks any younger we'd we gently encourage get starting to get to know your your changing body especially around puberty But yeah, very much gentle body awareness at that younger age. Tend to say from around 18 upwards, but really not to worry if this is new to you and especially this month with it being Breast Cancer Awareness Month and lots of conversations about breast cancer if you're new don't worry and think I wish I'd been doing this 10 years ago that's fine just make a start today and then encourage everyone you know to do the same.

SPEAKER_02:

Amazing and I think everybody will be doing just that after they hear today's podcast. Erin I want to talk to you about the fact that you talk about cancer and not defining you and that's a phrase that I've heard you quote I've listened to you say it and I've heard other people quote you when they talk about cancer not defining you and you went on after this grueling treatment and double mastectomy to go back in back in to competitive rowing and you know not everybody can do that after they've been through grueling grueling treatment How did you do it? Like, how did you get back or was it that you needed to be back? What happened?

SPEAKER_01:

I think it was kind of multifaceted. I think for me, I never wanted to lose my identity. And I think, um, a diagnosis like this can define you because it becomes a full stop in your life and people change the way they talk to you, respond to you. Um, It's very it can be quite bizarre, almost the impact it has on others. And you're like, but I'm the same. I haven't changed. And actually, for me, you know, I I was just as competitive as I ever, ever was. And I really, really wanted just to keep competing. Like Paris was always the aim for me coming off the back of Tokyo. I wanted to compete in Paris. and have a proper party with my friends and family there. Obviously, winning gold in Tokyo was amazing, but we really did it in isolation. And so I really sort of set the tone, like I went and competed the day after I got diagnosed back in May 22. A very small group of people knew. And it was a great way of kind of like drawing my line, the sound of being like, So I'm going to carry on. Is everyone with me? Like, thankfully, everyone was. And I competed at the European Champs whilst I was on chemo in the August of that year. And then I had to kind of take some time out because I was moving into that weekly treatment. And, you know, being a professional athlete at World Championships, which last eight days and having weekly chemotherapy in Guildford, really, they're not that compatible. I couldn't be in two places at once and I definitely wouldn't be giving my best performance. So that was pretty tough. But I got back to competing a year after I was diagnosed, a year to the day, which is mad. You couldn't write, you know, if that was in a story, you'd think that was a bit far-fetched, actually. And we won the Euros in Lake Bled, which is probably up there with one of the most beautiful places I've ever rode. And it felt like a real fairy tale. And then it took me all the way to Paris.

SPEAKER_02:

Amazing. And you got the all-clear in 2023, right? What does that feel like? Where's the roller coaster now? I'd

SPEAKER_01:

say it's tentatively happy about it. I think the reality is that, um, I think TV and drama make you think that it's sunshine and rainbows in that kind of, you're all clear. Woo hoo. But as I said, you know, I've got the BRCA gene, um, So, you know, even though I have had dog mastectomy, it doesn't remove every single cell. You know, you've got to there's still the risk is there for me. Plus, with triple negative, there tends to be a higher rate of recurrence in the first five years. But then weirdly, the stats sort of flip themselves on their head after five years. But obviously, it's not a five-year tick. And then the cells go, oh, it's five years. Okay, well, I guess we're off. Yeah, so it's a great five years. So I think for me, kind of five years and a bit clear will probably be a time when I'm feeling probably more confident. But until then, I think, you know, and thankfully, obviously, given my job, it's not that hard to do. But there's huge amounts of evidence of research on being fit and exercising just the government mandated amount following the breast cancer diagnosis in terms of statistically helping yourself to kind of avoid a recurrence. Obviously, that is not to say that exercising will mean you won't have a recurrence, but what it does mean is you're giving yourself your best possible chance of staying fit and healthy. And obviously, that also hits a lot of other boxes as well. Leaving an active, healthy lifestyle is is the key to a long and happy life, generally speaking.

SPEAKER_02:

So not only have you gone back into rowing and bagged yourself some... gold medals of which I got to hold one when we were trekking and they weigh a ton I didn't realize just how heavy a gold medal was and it was the closest I will ever get to a gold medal but Erin not only have you done that but you've also um started working with and working for Copperfield um how has that come about and what are you now doing in your sort of working time with Copperfield what are you doing?

SPEAKER_01:

Oh Copperfield I genuinely credit you know for the early detection um They genuinely saved my life. And so it doesn't feel hard to kind of be giving back to Copperfield because I just think we need to talk about it. And just like Emma said earlier, when you're checking, you're not looking for cancer. That's what we need to remember. That's the narrative. We need to change the narrative. And it's about knowing what your normal is so that you are in a position to advocate. Chris Salenga, who co-founded Copperfield with her twin, was turned away multiple times by her doctor because her doctor thought she was too young. And that's one of the reasons, you know, she found the Copperfield. So that didn't happen again to empower young men, women to be able to kind of speak up. And so, yeah, it's, it's very easy to be able to be kind of working with Copperfield. And for me, it's been a real privilege. And obviously we met on the track, but yeah, Yeah, I'm so excited because I'm actually going to be captaining one of their tracks in November, which is coming up really soon, actually, in the Himalayas. So I've got my own team, despite trying to steal Amy Gowden's team for the one day that I was there. And also Faye's, Faye Winters, which I quite enjoyed. And I didn't even track with them. I was like the Pied Piper, just stealing everyone else's teammates. But now they've Copperfield have kindly given me my own team and yeah I'm going to be going out and tracking and raising money for them in November.

SPEAKER_02:

Erin you're a brilliant you're a brilliant voice and a brilliant ambassador for Copperfield so I can't think of something more perfect for the job. Emma if somebody is listening and has checked themselves and has found something that is not their normal what do they do next where do they go?

SPEAKER_03:

First step, go to the GP. So make that appointment and explain why you need to see them really. And on a practical level, you can prepare yourself. So quite likely they'll actually want to see you. So thinking about perhaps wearing a separate top and bottoms, that kind of thing. If you're going to the appointment, they're likely to want to actually examine the area and check it out as well. And take some notes along. It can be quite useful to actually have that with you to say, when did you first notice? If you have periods, what's your cycle been like? And if you're aware of any family history of breast cancer, it will be useful to tell the GP as well. So we do really, there have been actual occasions where we've encouraged people to go back. So much like Erin said, we came about because Chris was only 23. and very sadly diagnosed at stage four by the time she was actually diagnosed. So we have encouraged people to go back. If you still don't feel right, something's not quite right, but that you've been kind of told to leave it or it's probably nothing, but we all have that gut instinct. You do go back, whether you ask to see somebody else or you say, things haven't changed, it's still there. I do need to be checked out. It's really important to advocate for yourself you can do things to help yourself as well in terms of asking if you'd prefer for example to have a female gp ask for that at the time when you're booking and you could see if you can take someone along with you as well if it's going to help you feel more confident to actually have that conversation with the healthcare professional try and make yourself you know or be as as ready as possible really for that initial appointment but also keeping in mind Emma, thank you. Emma, if you

SPEAKER_02:

were... Wanting somebody listening to have one takeaway. I don't even think that's possible in these podcasts. I think we need to stop asking this question, really, because I think there's too much good stuff. But Emma, if there was one thing that you wanted people to take away from Copperfield, from today's podcast, what would that message be from you, Emma?

SPEAKER_03:

Gosh, how to summarise? But essentially, get checking. Check your chest. Try not to worry about it. It's your body, you know. We get one of these. Have a good look and feel and see how hot copper feel can help you. So definitely follow us on socials and have a look at the website, really. Getting to know your normal, as we've said, would be my key takeaway from today.

SPEAKER_02:

Emma, thank you. And Erin, I'm going to leave you to have your final words before I wrap up and tell people what they can do next after this podcast. But Erin, what are your... Final takeaways, what would you want people listening to take away from hearing your story today?

SPEAKER_01:

I'd say it's about if you do find something that's abnormal, don't bury your head in the sand. Go and get it checked and be confident to go get it checked because I hope I kind of sit as an example of the importance of early detection, but also the realities of if you actually get a diagnosis, what life could look like um because an early diagnosis means you can you know come through the other side you are giving your best chance of a curable diagnosis which then means you can go and do amazing things and you know what you can still do amazing things if you're on treatment like I think one of the reasons I started sharing so openly on social media was because I didn't know what life looked like for someone who had been diagnosed with cancer And so I was like, well, this will stop people burying their heads in the sand, I hope. And so, yeah, like exactly as Emma said, start checking. But then also, if you do find something, just go get it checked out. Get a second opinion and go see a health professional.

SPEAKER_02:

Wise words from our guests this afternoon. Thank you. Folks, you've been listening to the Family Health Podcast. And if you want to see what these lovely ladies look like, our podcast is available for us to watch on our YouTube channel. You can also subscribe to the podcast via your favourite podcast channels. And don't forget to sign up to the Mini First Aid newsletter because each week we send you family health and wellness, including important topics like breast cancer. So please make sure that you do that. And my final request before I go is that if there is a subject a family health subject that you would like me to talk about or invite guests to come and talk about with us please do let us know because you guide us as to what you need to know in the arena of family health you've been listening to Family Health Podcast Thank you for listening to Family Health by Mini First Aid. I hope you found our podcast really useful and informative. If you want to know more about Mini First Aid classes, courses, qualification courses or first aid supplies, please do visit minifirstaid.co.uk or look us up on all your favourite social platforms at Mini First Aid. And just a little reminder from me and our sponsor Things Happen that if reviewing your life insurance is still on your to-do list, take time to get in touch with a Things Happen advisor today.