Board With Each Other
A podcast that looks at Board Games / Tabletop Gaming through the lens of playing as a couple or with a regular gaming partner. Hosted by Al & Hannah, We review a game each episode.
Board With Each Other
Episode 20 - Clank! Catacombs: Make Some Noise!
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
Thanks for joining us for another episode of Board With Each Other.
In this month's episode, we cast a critical eye over the deckbuilder / dungeon explorer that is Clank! Catacombs. A reimagining of the classic Clank! in which an intrepid thief tries to rob a dragon of its loot, this edition introduces a lot more randomisation. But is it for the better or its detriment? How much luck is too much? And most importantly, how does it play as a 2 player game. All the answers to these questions lie within!
Hello everybody and welcome to another episode of Board With Each Other, the board gaming podcast that reviews board games and looks at them as to how they play as a pair, whether that's with your significant other, your BFF, or that really shady guy that tries to rob you every time he comes to your house and escape before you notice. I'm Al Simpson and I'm joined as ever by my lovely wife and player too, Anna Kelly.
SPEAKER_01Hi guys.
SPEAKER_00And today we are reviewing the adventure slash deck builder that is Dungeon Crawler. Dungeon Crawler, well, yeah, kind of, not really.
SPEAKER_01You're crawling through a gun dungeon.
SPEAKER_00You are, true, yes. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Adventurous dungeon crawler, deck builder that is clank catacombs. Got there in the end. In Clank Catacombs, you take the role of a thief robbing a dragon's cave. Or catacomb. I've never heard a dragon loving a catacomb, but apparently this one does. The object of the game is to move around and reveal said catacomb through the placing of randomized modular tiles and gathering up loot and deciding when the best time to cut cut and run, basically, is. You do that by through a deck of cards, and your deck allows you to do a number of actions depending on what cards you play in a turn. You play all your entire hand of five cards each turn, and those cards allow you to move, obviously, through the catacomb. They allow you to attack, so you can attack monsters that are either present, there's goblins that are present throughout the game, but you also get other monsters that appear through the marketplace, which is called the dungeon roam, of which they are six cards. You uh also get skill, which is the currency that you basically use to buy cards. Um amongst doing that, you also acquire something called clank, which is essentially noise. When you acquire clank, it's placed on a shared player board uh with the other players, and when a dragon attack occurs, which occurs when a certain with cards with certain icons are drawn into the dragon row, into the are drawn into the dungeon row, um, you take all of those wooden blocks which represent your your clank, put them in a bag with a load of black uh cubes, which represent nothing happening, and you draw some out dependent on the rage of the dragon. Um if you draw your own colour through that, or anybody else's colour for that matter, you gain damage, and I think you've got a total of ten hit points during the during the game. If you get knocked out and you are in the starting light coloured tiles, you still get to keep all your loot. If you get knocked out in the depths, which are the dark coloured tiles, which comprise most of the dungeon, particularly later on in the game, you lose all your loot and you basically score zero points. So the entire premise of the game is sort of a push-your-luck mechanic where you build up a deck, you use that deck to navigate around the dungeon, and you have to choose when the time is right to leave. In order to leave and still successfully win, you have to pick up an artifact. These appear as certain tiles are placed down during the game, and they're worth an increasing number of points. So the more artifacts that get put down, the more points you you're playing with. Um picking up an artifact always enrages the dragon. There are a number of other mechanisms to gain you victory points. A lot of cards that you acquire into your deck award you with victory points at the end of the game. Any money that you acquire is worth one victory point per coin. And um you could do things like free prisoners, which all have their own sort of impacts on gameplay. You do that by spending lockpicks. You start with three, but you can acquire more through certain cards. Um there's a massive plethora of of loot basically that you acquire. By the end of the game, your your playing area in front of you will probably be quite full of the various gobbins that you manage to pick up.
SPEAKER_01It's worth mentioning that the cards in the dungeon row also have point values assigned to them as well.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I did say that.
SPEAKER_01Or did you? I wasn't listening, sorry.
SPEAKER_00The only thing I think the only other thing I think that's worth mentioning is during uh gameplay you will acquire things called major minor secrets. And these are minor secrets tend to be sort of single-use things, so one might let you trash a card, or you gain a lockpick, or you might get potions that allow you to move an extra space in a turn or the sort of one use or gain a health back. Major secrets tend to have a bit more profound impact on gameplay, and usually you have to use lockpicks to get them. Um I think the most powerful of those is one a lot of the the pathways you go down in the catacombs, some of them are one way, and you can get a map that allows you to go the reverse way up the those one-way pathways. I think that's probably it for the rules. Is there anything else you want to mention?
SPEAKER_01No, I think that's probably about it. Ghosts.
SPEAKER_00Uh yes, yeah. Some tiles when you place them down are haunted, which means you place Ooh. Excellent impression. Uh you place a white cube into the bag.
SPEAKER_01I've never seen an actual ghost, so I don't know what they sound like.
SPEAKER_00You place a white cube into the bag, and if you draw that cube during a dragon attack, everybody that's playing gets damaged.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, bad times for all.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, not good, not good. Um okay, so I mean, I had my eye on this one for a long time because it is by Paul Denon, who is the designer of possibly my favourite game of all time, June Dune Imperium.
SPEAKER_01Ah.
SPEAKER_00Um, and that's sort of that's that design pedigree mixed with um some high fantasy and a bit of you know thieving and looting. I thought, oh, this is definitely going to be up our alley.
SPEAKER_01And one thing that I like is loot.
SPEAKER_00Yes, you do like looting. I do like looting on obsessive looter in video games and board games.
SPEAKER_01In fact, it's quite often with Skyrim, you often say it's like playing with a walkthrough because I will tell you exactly where all the chests are and what you can find in said chests.
SPEAKER_00Yes, this actually happens, yeah. Your mastermind subject.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, no, that's the fauna and flora of Skyrim.
SPEAKER_00Oh sorry, I got that wrong. Yeah, flora and fauna of Skyrim, definitely.
SPEAKER_01Um But this isn't about Skyrim, this is about track.
SPEAKER_00Back back back back on track. Um so yeah, I had eyes on this one for a long time. Um but I guess uh shall we just get straight into the review? Because I've got quite a lot to say here.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I mean, in terms of playtime, I do think it can vary.
SPEAKER_00Very variable, very, very five to ninety minutes, which I think is probably about right. Yeah, I think that's probably about right. Yeah, I think more players again the longer it would take, but um I think with a two-player game, you could this could be done in half an hour, depending on what happens, or it could go on long, uh it could go on longer than 90 minutes. It's it's it's a very variable playtime.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Okay, so then over into our scoring categories, as always, we start out with our general scoring before moving on to our specific two-player scoring categories, and the first up is components, so it includes things like board space, setup, and the actual bits that come in the box.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um, I'm gonna start off by saying this is a massive table hog.
SPEAKER_00Yes, it is a massive table hog.
SPEAKER_01Obviously, the idea is that on your turn, if you move down a road or a pathway. Pathway, um, you and and there's no end point to it, you will have to take a tile and you will have to place that tile. You can choose the direction in which you place it, but that means that you can have some very sprawling maps. You can obviously choose not to and follow each other, um, but it it means that it it can be quite sprawling and take up quite a amount of space.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's a sort of a word to the wise for anybody before they're playing, make sure you have the room.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um, because otherwise you could actually constrain the gameplay because you know, I can't go down where you want to go down as such. And if you or multiple players head off in different directions, it gets quite sprawling quite quickly.
SPEAKER_01Yep.
SPEAKER_00Um, and it's uh not the sort of typical board shape, is it? It could go in any typical grave. It does take up a fair bit of room. There's also a lot of counters and tokens and gubbons, so uh again you need the space to be able for people to be able to draw from those, etc.
SPEAKER_01As a result, I would say that setup does take a little while because you need to randomise a lot of stuff, you need to separate things out into piles, and they're all quite small and quite fiddly as counters are tend tend to be.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, there's a lot of token shuffling.
SPEAKER_01Yes.
SPEAKER_00Not card shuffling, but token shuffling. I mean, there is card shuffling as well, but there's a lot of token shuffling.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um, so just if that you find that a pain, then you know, be forewarned.
SPEAKER_01Um I don't uh there is a quite a big stack of deck, uh deck of cards for the dungeon room.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, but it's not huge. We're not talking like a deck of many things like Wormspell and Markoni.
SPEAKER_01You can shuffle it. But I will say the cards are quite flimsy. I don't I think they're just generally maybe we've been being recently that I kind of feel they're a little bit flimsy in terms of cardstock.
SPEAKER_00If you played any of Dire Wolf's games are the same quality, so exactly the same quality as Juniper, etc.
SPEAKER_01I have unrealistic expectations then, fair enough.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, we played too much Radlands apparently. Um yeah, so I mean everything is looks great. The the artwork's really, really nice on the cards and on the map. Um everything looks very, very cool.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Um it's not like high high fantasy, there is an element of softening and sort of fun, soft comic.
SPEAKER_00Cartoonish, that's yeah, it's quite cartoony. Um, yeah, it's definitely not your your gritty high fantasy, it's definitely, you know, like jokey side of DD almost.
SPEAKER_01But I like that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, yeah. Nothing wrong with that. You've got a big um dragon token to represent the dragon. It's not as big as impress or as big or as impressive as the the koi fish from uh White Castle.
SPEAKER_01No, I don't think anything is that impressive.
SPEAKER_00Um but it it you know it look it looks fine, looks great. Um all the artwork, everything melds together really well, the theme comes through really, really strongly. Um and yeah, it's it's a it's a great package. I've got very little negative to say about the components. Um setup, the setup we spoke about, but teardown can be a little bit of a pain because you've got these tiny, tiny little lockpick tokens. And I think anybody who plays this will share my pain that whenever you try and put the map away, you always you start spilling these little lockpick tokens that you have to place down that you've not seen. Um I know why it's like that due to design. It's a design choice where you have to place them on the map, but god they're fiddly.
SPEAKER_01Yes, and they are tiny.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, they are really small.
SPEAKER_01They are really small, they're smaller than my fingernails.
SPEAKER_00They're absolute loss bait, like you're going to lose on them if you play this regularly, I imagine.
SPEAKER_01Particularly between holes down floorboards.
SPEAKER_00So, yeah. Um how did you how did you score it?
SPEAKER_01So um I would agree with you, your overall sentiment. I've scored it down a little bit because it's quite fiddly to set up, and then there are parts where they're fiddly, so I scored it a six.
SPEAKER_00Okay, I gave it an eight. I think it's really I I think it's a really nice, it's it's a really nice package. And I think as far as like combination of art and theme and everything goes, I think it it works really, really well. So I've got very little negative to say about it.
SPEAKER_01I was gonna say seven, but then like I say, scored it down.
SPEAKER_00Okay, fair enough.
SPEAKER_01Alright, so then on to our next category, which is complexity. Um, and with the caveat uh that it's not necessarily about how complex the game is, but how well the complexity serves the gameplay.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Hugo. Okay. So I mean, I'm gonna I'm gonna start out on the positive. This is a really easy game to teach. There is not a lot of rules overhead. If anybody's played any sort of deck builder before, they'll be able to play this really, really quickly and easily. Um, the whole concept of spending your entire hands, you can't carry cards over, you just sort of dump them all, you draw. It's it it you'll you'll pick it up in no time. And the the core concepts of moving around and interacting with the map, there's not a huge number of icons that you need to memorize. You've got a really handy um reference sheet for prisoners. A good reference sheet as well. So, you know, while you're still learning, you can look them up really, really, really easily. It is an easy game to cheat. It's it it's not a light game, but it's definitely on the light side of medium weight, I would say, if you're going by sort of board game geek ratings. Um so that is a positive. It's not a brain burner in that in that sense, and it I don't it doesn't pretend to be. Um however, the negative thing to this, and it's it's one of my main bugbears with this game, is I think there's a real lack of synergy or tactical nouse to the deck building.
SPEAKER_02Yep.
SPEAKER_00When I play a deck builder, I want to be able to create a deck that works with itself. Um, I think there's only a couple of sort of synergistic type things that happen in these decks that you build, and most of them just involve you drawing more cards on a turn.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, there's also um one around clank, so the more clank you make, the more things that you get, be that money, be that you know, even currency, etc. Um, also healing clank as well, removing clank. Um, but you're absolutely right, there really seems to be, as far as I can tell, only two main mechanics, and there's not enough, I guess, depth to either of those to make it sort of either engine building. Engine building, is that deck building, um, or or for you to even end up fighting, I think, over the dungeon row for those cards particularly.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, and the ones that do synergize, there's actually a fair amount of them. So you if you are going down that route, it's fairly easy to to to find them, you know, it's it's not it's not a real struggle. If somebody nicks a card, your your deck falls apart, which can be frustrating, but it's also quite cool for deck builders, you know. And I just yeah, the deck building aspect of it is at its core a deck builder, but I just don't think that is complex enough for me. Um I like a little bit more tactical complexity in a deck builder. Um I find with this you end up with a massive deck of junk at the end. Well, not junk, but nothing really works together. You just got loads, loads of cards. I also think as far as deck builders go, the opportunities to trash cards are far fewer than you'd find in a lot of other deck builders. Like usually trashing cards is a major mechanic because you have your vaguely crappy starting hand and then you quickly get rid of those cards and move on to better things. It's actually quite difficult to do in this. Um I don't know, that's just because due to luck or how we played or whatever, but it there doesn't seem to be many opportunities. And whenever you do see them, they tend to be very one-off, whereas uh a decent deck builder will allow you to continuously trash a card if you get certain cards working together. Um so yeah, I think that part of it is definitely lacking something for me.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I mean think about the other strengths that it's got going for it. You know, the idea is that you are obviously trying to pick your moment to leave the dungeon with as much loot as you possibly can compared to your opponent and timing that right so that your opponent might struggle to then leave. It's worth noting that once you one patient one patient, one person has left the dungeon, um, that really enrages the dragon. And every turn you then pull six cubes out of the bag.
SPEAKER_00On that player that that's left. Yeah, on the players that's left.
SPEAKER_01So actually, the the the pace at which you have to leave you you've got to leg it basically in order to be able to survive. What I do think is quite cool is there are a number of mechanics they've put in the game to kind of keep you pushing, to keep kind of stretching you out. So, for example, if you free prisoners, well, your prisoners may only count towards victory points if you have, for example, bought a crown from the marketplace.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, there's that synergy between those, isn't there?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, because there are also marketplace rooms where you you can go to buy things like additional lock picks, additional bags, stuff like that. Um so that kind of pushes you to keep keep going to a certain extent. Um and I think I think that's quite cool.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And that's quite quite well done.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, fair enough. Yeah. I mean, would you say that's an element of complexity?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I think that's another layer, isn't it?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I suppose, yeah, you're right. Okay, alright.
SPEAKER_01So it's about balancing both your artifacts but also all your other loot. Um what I would say is that bearing in mind, and you are right, it's not a heavy game, it's fairly, fairly light. But bearing that in mind, I do think we've made quite a number of mistakes with the rules. And I don't think that's necessarily I mean we always make mistakes. We always make mistakes, but I don't think that's necessarily on us particularly. I think that's maybe either perhaps the the rule book maybe or things can be a bit janky sometimes.
SPEAKER_02I don't know.
SPEAKER_01And particularly because when you draw your hand and you place your hand down, you can do things in a variety of orders. So sometimes there's no set order. There's no set order, so things can get a bit confusing. So I've made mistakes, for example, where I've had to stop because I'm in a crystal cave, and that automatically ends your movement, but then I've got boot of speed, so I've moved, and then I realised afterwards that I wasn't allowed to move because I was in a crystal cave. So there is a level of jankiness to it, and I don't know if that's and because of that, I think if you have like new players, for example, then you are gonna need someone who's gonna almost DM it and just have a little bit of oversight, and of course you always do with new games because you do have to teach people, but I do think there has to be one person who has to be quite on it to go, actually no, you can't do that because of this.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think that's a that's a valid point, yeah. Again, you just need to pay that little bit of extra attention, don't you? But I I do agree with you. I think the you can take all of your actions in any order thing gets quite confusing for yourself, let alone everybody else to sort of follow what you're doing, so you don't have to quite you have to talk everything through, really.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Okay, um So how did you score it? So I've given it a six.
SPEAKER_01I gave it a seven.
SPEAKER_00Okay, fine. Yeah, I think the I think the lack of synergy thing really, really bugs me in this.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00I just want that a little bit of extra.
SPEAKER_01Again, I think I probably have scored that in other sections as well, so we'll come back to that I'm sure.
SPEAKER_00Fine, okay.
SPEAKER_01Alright, so then on to shelf life. So this includes things like value for money but also the repayability. So as always, what's the price point?
SPEAKER_00Varies quite massively, but it's I I think it's supposed to retail for about£50. Um, so it's not a cheap game. Um, but there is a fair amount you get in the box, and you know, all the big, thick, chunky tiles, all the map tiles are kind of make sense. I still think it's a little bit on the expensive end. And I think uh there's greater considerations here around value for money and you know the value for money and shelf life go hand in hand. And obviously your mileage may vary depending on how much you you enjoy this. Um, but I'm just gonna flat out say it straight away. For me, despite the level of randomization in this, which is usually, you know, the shelf life crack, I don't see a lot of legs in this.
SPEAKER_01And I think that's partly because of a lack of deck building opportunities that you have out of it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Because as you said, there really are only a couple of mechanisms, and so you either get that synergy or you don't, and it's not like you have to change the way in which you play or change your strategy based on based on that really.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and there's a lot to do with I think I'll I'll talk more about in the next section uh under fun because there's quite there's quite a lot I'd want to say about what you just talked about, but I think it comes more under fun for me. This is one of those games where looking back after I played it three times, I feel like I'd seen most of what the game had to offer. I don't think there was anything uh deeper that came out of the repeater plays. It was still the same game with the same mechanisms, with the same pushball mechanic. And some people might, you know, like that. If you fall in love with the core concept of this, I imagine the amount of randomization with with the catacomb uh would would mean you'll be playing this for years, but for me there was just wasn't enough there, there wasn't enough depth, there wasn't enough strategy, um and I just it it just didn't grab me. So after after I God know how many times we played this, it's it's more than six but less than ten. Um I feel like I'm done with it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Um what I think I would say is that it's a very casual game, and again, I think that speaks to a lot about what you're looking for in terms of a board game, and that makes it because it is quite casual and you can pick it up, and I think you could go back to it, you know, over a longer period of time. Yeah, you know, it's a nice one to have on the shelf to pull out if you're looking again for that kind of sweet spot, something quite casual, um, something very luck-based. Um, then I think it it it does have that, but is that what we look for? No, probably not.
SPEAKER_00No, and I again on the sort of casual point, I can think of much more casual games and much lighter games after 20 plays. I'm still gagging to play again.
SPEAKER_01Give me an example.
SPEAKER_00Ooh, uh Fox in the Forest, even King of Tokyo, something as simple as that.
SPEAKER_01Forest isn't luck-based though.
SPEAKER_00No, it's not. I mean King of Tokyo is pretty luck-based.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's true.
SPEAKER_00And I play that over and over again compared to this. Um, very different games, obviously, but I I I think my point still stands that they are lighter games and more casual games that I'd rather I'd rather play. Um, and I think that's just because for whatever reason, the combination, the sort of secret source of everything just hasn't ground me like I thought I would it would.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And um it's really disappointing because I really I really wanted to love this.
SPEAKER_01I really wanted to love this. It was kind of it had our names written all over it, and I think again, it it is quite well loved. It is.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so we might actually be in the minority here.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and I also think again it's one of those games where perhaps maybe I went in with two highest of experts. Expectations and it didn't deliver.
SPEAKER_00Possibly. I just I just don't think it delivered for me full stop. I don't think it was bad expectations.
SPEAKER_01I'm very disappointed that I don't like as much as I do, but but I suppose let's go back to then the core concept. Okay, fine, we don't want to play it again. But is there a huge amount of replayability here if you liked the game? And I think there is.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I thought I think there is, yeah. And as I said, I think the the the random map aspect of it means that if you do enjoy the core gameplay loop and you get a lot of fun out of it, then absolutely this will probably be much, much higher scoring for you. Um, but it doesn't change my objective opinion about it.
SPEAKER_01Okay, so how did you score it then?
SPEAKER_00Uh objective opinion. Subjective opinion, very subjective. Um definitely not objective. Uh so I gave it a six.
SPEAKER_01Huh. Interesting. So I'm softer on you than this, but I also scored it a six.
SPEAKER_00Interesting. Okay. So I'm not quite so critical of it. I think I might have added a point or two onto it just to take into account that there is a huge amount of randomization, and I think it'd be a bit disingenuous for me to like massively go in on this because it's obviously there, it's more of a me problem, I think.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, but I think it's good to learn it.
SPEAKER_00Doesn't gel with me.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Okay. Um, and then our final category is fun. So did you have any fun while you were playing it?
SPEAKER_00Uh a little bit, sometimes. Obviously, got more much more to say than that, but you go ahead.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so I think the most fun that I've ever had whilst playing this was when fact fun enough, our last game, when you'd escaped the dungeon and fallen flat on your face as you stepped out the took the last step out the gun.
SPEAKER_00I didn't escape, I got knocked out in the last last square before leaving.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and then I was stuck in a dungeon and I had no way that I could possibly get out. I had no lock picks and I had no map, so I was stuffed really. And that was probably the most fun that I ever had because I was up against the clock and there was a real pressure for me to get out of the dungeon. But that is one game in however many.
SPEAKER_00Between six and well, more than six less than ten. I haven't counted exactly how many games we've had on this.
SPEAKER_01Um I think I was initially quite disappointed with it, and then I kind of hit a stride and I was like, oh, actually, no, maybe this has got a bit more to it, and then I realised that actually the deck building mechanic wasn't really there, as you said.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I have the same curve as you. Yeah. There's like, uh, I'm not sure if I like this. Oh, actually, I'm having a bit of fun now. Oh, this is all there is to it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um, I think I went on that sort of curve gradient, and then it just bottomed out after that. Um, yeah, I mean one of the issues I do have with this is there's so much randomness that it's often feels like the game the game's happening to you. It's like instead of you playing it. Um I feel like the number of choices you have available to you are very, very limited realistically. I think you you kind of you just plod along and hope for a win.
SPEAKER_01You hope that you land on an artifact. You hope that artifact has more points than the previous one, or you know, what your opponent's got, and you're just trying just get through the dungeon, really.
SPEAKER_00And I think when I've had a really successful run, I don't feel like it's me that's done that. No. I feel like the game happened in my favour.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And that but that's because it is so luck-based, and normally you prefer that element of luck.
SPEAKER_00I I love luck and randomness, but I think there's obviously a tipping point with me. Yeah. And I think this definitely goes to the other side of the line. Because I either feel like I have won by just playing the game and existing, or how charmed. Yeah. Or uh I end up getting really frustrated because nothing I'm doing is working, and I feel like that's not because of mistakes I'm making, it's just because the cards aren't my favour, the tiles aren't in my favour. Um, I think there's there's almost just an element too far. And I think if you there was more deck building synergy and there's more strength in the deck building that allowed you to mitigate some of that, and yes, you can mitigate that. I'm not saying you know, you can't your deck's completely useless, but I feel like if there was something, if you started to see the game taking a certain form and you could start to concentrate on something in the deck building to go, I need to combat that. Um, and that's very limited. Yeah, I don't think there's a lot that you can do about that. Um and I think there's there's a lot of things that come into play, like yes, there's there's marketplace tiles, and they're great and they're really powerful, but you you need them to kind of hit at the right time. Yeah because you get there and you've got no money. You could well, you can't just knock about waiting, you have to move on, and then you've got to backtrack if you don't get lucky, or you get there way too late and it's irrelevant. Um same with the artifacts. I mean, I think one of the games that we played, I walked out of a uh walked out of the the shallower part of the dungeon, straight into the depths, basically walked straight onto an artifact that had a special thing which meant you took two down from the deck. I picked that up and I just legged it. This is kind of like game over. Why would I you you have nothing? Um, and it just again it feels like the game's happening to you instead of you playing it. And I think that might be really fun in certain circles for certain people. I imagine this is great, have a few drinks and have a laugh kind of thing. Um, but it's not what I go for, particularly not in a two-player game game.
SPEAKER_01Two-player game. Yeah, yeah. Um, yeah, I would echo all those sentiments really, and I think it it can be really frustrating. So, you know, again, I'll talk about a recent playthrough that we had where despite the fact that my deck was actually quite well built and quite well structured in terms of movement, I just got absolutely scuppered. Like I just had a really bad run of luck, and it just made things really frustrating because it just makes you really disengaged, doesn't it?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I'm just engaged. Like, oh right, okay, I'm stuck here. There's nothing I can do about this. This is just happening.
SPEAKER_01I end up in a crystal cave with absolutely no way of escaping, you know.
SPEAKER_00It's it's again it's happening to you. Yeah, it's not you're like that hasn't got that element of oh I messed up, but that's why I'm you know, that's why this turn stuff. It just it very much feels like you have very little agency.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Um okay, alright, so how did you score it then?
SPEAKER_00I gave it a four.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so I found it quite difficult because part of me thinks, and we'll talk about this in our two-player ratings ratings, but I do feel like it would be a different experience with more people, and therefore I found it quite difficult to to rate, so I gave it a five.
SPEAKER_00You gave it a five, yeah. Yeah, fair enough.
SPEAKER_01So I thought nicely in the middle, but doesn't deserve to be any higher than a five. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00This is a really tough one because, like I said before, I really wanted to like this, and I also feel like I'm killing a darling here. Like I know a lot of loads of people love it.
SPEAKER_01I don't hear a lot of criticism of that. I believe about it.
SPEAKER_00No, I've had very little criticism, which has really surprised me how much I haven't gelled with it. But hey-ho, there's the brakes.
SPEAKER_01Okay, so let's total those up and see what we get.
SPEAKER_00Okay, after we total those up, those that gives us a straight up six, no need to round this time. So six in our general category.
SPEAKER_01Slightly above average.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, slightly above average.
SPEAKER_01Alright, so let's move on then to our two-player rating scales. And the first of those is table talk, getting to know you, how much bounce there is. I can't find just giving the word bounce. Yeah. How much banter there is.
SPEAKER_00Shit talking for American lovers. Um so yeah, I mean, I think this isn't bad in in terms of table talk. I think it's it's quite a light, almost comedic theme, so I think that kind of prompts a little bit of rubbing and a little bit of, you know, banter back and forth. I think you because of the take actions in any order you want to mechanism, I think you uh you do have to talk your opponent through what you're doing. Um I think everything that's happening is very out in the open, so there's a lot of uh commiseration or you know, laughing at when things don't go people's way. Um so I think I think it's good. I think it's good. Um there's always the fact of this is like getting to know somebody in terms of how they play and all that kind of thing. And again, the game happens to you a lot, so there's not that that element's not really there.
SPEAKER_01I think this would be really fantastic as not necessarily a date game, but sort of a good fun game where it's quite light-hearted, because it's so luck-based, it's very hard to take it personally. Yeah, um, and it's uh luck is a great leveller, you always say this. So actually it doesn't matter whether you are a really experienced board game and your other player isn't, um, it's a great one to be able to bring out for that purpose. So nice early relationship kind of thing. I I think is a real cracker for that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Or parent and kid.
SPEAKER_01Yes.
SPEAKER_00You know, I if you're playing with like like you know, ages vary, but you know, your your pretty teen who's born on a board on a Sunday afternoon, I think this might be quite good because of that levelling aspect, and because it is quite light-hearted and and and fun in that way. Um and you can have a laugh over it. So yeah, I think it I think it's reasonably good at this. So I give it a seven.
SPEAKER_01Um so I scored a five.
SPEAKER_00Okay, alright. Do you want to talk a bit more about what sort of marked it down for you?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, because no, you are right, you you you we do talk an awful lot, but it is largely about narrating turns, really, and a lot of that interaction is this is what I'm doing, and this is what I'm buying, and this is what I'm spending my money on. And just because there's conversation doesn't mean it necessarily adds value, I guess. No, it's true. Yeah. So again, I think it is still quite a solo experience. And yes, you say there are opportunities for like ribbing and you know, taking the piss and stuff. I I don't know that there really is.
SPEAKER_00I th you can't mess with people a little bit, isn't it?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, you you you can, you have those options.
SPEAKER_00Um though in order to do that best, you probably have to knock around near somebody so you can put tiles down that you know, gonna gonna really screw up their turn.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so I think you'd have to go out there with the objective to mess with somebody else. Yeah, true. Which I suppose that is gonna be a good thing. Sometimes I do. I've seen you follow me around the board just to fuck with me. Yep, which you know is lovely.
SPEAKER_00Um but just like real life.
SPEAKER_01Um standing in my way in doorways, yeah. Um so yeah, I think I scored it down on that basis. Whilst there's a lot of talking, I'm not really sure that talking adds a huge amount of value.
SPEAKER_00Okay, alright, fine.
SPEAKER_01So then our next category is competitiveness. Yeah. So obviously, you are directly competing with each other, you need to leave with the most points, um, and you need to accumulate the most points. But here's the thing somebody has the option of pulling that trigger, and as soon as that person pulls that trigger, everyone else has gotta get the fuck out of there, otherwise they're gonna end up being eaten by a dragon. And maybe that is what the level of competitiveness is. I I don't know, but I'm not sure how I feel about that as a a mechanic, and that's really the main crux of the competitiveness in this.
SPEAKER_00Yes, it is, is it's choosing when to cut and run, basically.
SPEAKER_01Um and bearing in mind whether you're ahead or not is entirely based on luck.
SPEAKER_00Pretty much, yeah, mostly. Yeah. I mean uh yeah. I I'm sure people would argue otherwise, but I think the vast majority of it has to do with luck. And I think unfortunately for me, there's too much luck involved to make this competitive, as I always say with this category. Is it satisfying to win?
SPEAKER_01No.
SPEAKER_00Not really, no. Because when whenever I've won, I don't feel like I've won. I feel like I've just had the better run of luck.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Or I've just made the decision to leave at the right time. Um I I just yeah, it it just doesn't have that competitive pull for me where it's I've done this and I've beaten this other person because I've done it better. Um and I'm fine with a bit of luck in that, but this the as I said, this is too much in this for her for her to feel that way. It just it just doesn't feel satisfying to me.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And I've had situations where so I I think I've lost all but one of our games. Because we often say in games that we play cooperatively, if there's anything really important based on luck, owl doesn't roll the dice, it's me because you are cursed. RNG gods terrible. They absolutely hate you. However, it seems like all my bad luck is stored up into this one but one game.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah, pretty much.
SPEAKER_01The RNG gods of Clank hate me. Um so I've had entire games where I've never even got a single artifact. And I've been like, can I leave the dungeon now? You're like, no, Hannah, because you can't win because you haven't got an artifact. I'm like, well, I'm just gonna die here in the cryptum.
SPEAKER_00Guess I'll die.
SPEAKER_01Um and that's the bit that just feels unsatisfying and a bit unfair. Like I would never I'm not a bad loser, but yeah, it feels unfair.
SPEAKER_00But on the flip side of that, when you have been in those situations, I haven't been giggling to myself and giving you two middle fingers like I would in some other games.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00I've been like, uh, that's a shame. Oh well. Anyway, um, you know, it just doesn't it doesn't have that because I don't feel again, I don't feel like I've done that, it's just happened to you, and I'm like, nah, that sucks.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um, so yeah, this it really it really doesn't work on a competitive basis for me, so I've given it a three.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so I gave it a four. However, interestingly, when we talk about um we we've talked quite a lot about solitaire esque games that you play side by side, it doesn't feel like that either. So there is more competition than that, and I think that's where the dungeon row becomes quite important because you are working towards getting some of those big point cards that have quite a big effect, but again you just happen to get there before I do. It's it's it's not like I've been working really hard at getting that card and you've stolen it from underneath me.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and if not, there'll always be another one, yeah.
SPEAKER_01And also because again, you don't have to, but if you go off on separate paths in the dungeon, well, again, it's not like a race to that one artifact that we've just seen because you actually only place the tile as you go into that room, so that artifact only gets placed when you walk into it, so you don't even know that it's there, yeah. You know, so again you're not strategically trying to aim to get to a distant, far distant point.
SPEAKER_00Which is really interesting and made me think quite a lot because I've never played the original, in my view. And obviously the original is pretty much the s the same concept, um, but it's a fixed state board, and it makes me wonder if I'd actually prefer the original because everything's there, so it's all about how deep you plan on going before you leg it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um I don't know. I think maybe the the thing that's everybody loves about this is the thing that actually I might prefer the older version. I don't know.
SPEAKER_01Maybe we need to trade this for the original.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, maybe.
SPEAKER_01Is it just called clank?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, just straight up clank. I don't know. I mean I think a lot of the other problems will still persist.
SPEAKER_01Um a lot of people say that this is better at two player.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, they do, yeah. So yeah, I don't know. But it is one of those things like maybe with a fixed board I might I might actually like this more because then you're making sort of more tactical choices, I guess. I don't know.
SPEAKER_01Where you're going based on how you're doing and how much risky you want to get, depending on what's in your deck, kind of thing.
SPEAKER_00You know, I don't know. Maybe, maybe not. I shall try it one of these days and reach that conclusion.
SPEAKER_01Um so yes, I scored it at four.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, okay, alright. So final one is scalability and FOMO. So does this need more players, either mechanically or fun wise?
SPEAKER_01Um, so I am going to say absolutely yes.
SPEAKER_00I'm going to say fun-wise, absolutely yes. Mechanically, no. It plays perfectly well at two. You don't need more people to make it a better game, I don't think. In that sense, mechanically. Fun-wise is a completely different matter, but go on.
SPEAKER_01So I kind of disagree with that. I think because invariably, while she might sometimes go and chase me down just to fuck with me, um, I think the more players you had, the more consolidated your map space would be, and therefore the more opportunities to inadvertently fuck with somebody else without strategically going, actually, I'm gonna do this just to piss you off. But you do it um as a like by accident. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Serendipitously. Yeah, yeah, maybe.
SPEAKER_01You know, and I think that's where for me that's where it would get really exciting and perhaps a bit more fun, and also that element of because one person pulls the trigger, well, that means that there are three more of you that are trying to desperately leg it out of the dungeon, and you're just hoping that they're gonna get eaten first. And I think again, that's the bit where I have the most fun, yeah, and that's more likely to happen and go on for longer the more players that you have. So for me, both in terms of fun and from a mechanics perspective, definitely more players would absolutely help.
SPEAKER_00Okay, fair point. Um I think you might be right on the the mechanic side of things. I have a feeling that some games have a runaway leader problem. I have a feeling with multiple people this might have a runaway loser problem where somebody just get if you're playing with more than two people, the the third wheel in this case is just frozen out of the game completely, and it's gonna be a dreadful experience to them. Well, you say that I don't think it will happen every time, but I think it's it's got the prop the the propensity.
SPEAKER_01So there is a they will be that person that I was that has no artifacts and just gets eaten in the dungeon. But even then, I think that with more people might be more fun for everybody to watch and be a part of because you're kind of both rooting for them to get the artifacts, but also not rooting for them to get the artifact, and there's that push of well, I'm gonna die here anyway, so I just need to do everything I can to try and get there.
SPEAKER_00But that goes into the fun side of things, and I I actually think I I I think this would be way more fun with more people. Like, don't get me wrong, I think this this is crying out for more people because it will be more fun. I just I don't think the ma I I don't I think it's perfectly mechanically sound at two, and I don't think adding more players to it will make it mechanically better for me. But I I appreciate your your points. Um I I yeah, I think there might be some weaknesses that crop up with more people, but I I don't know. I I maybe maybe I'm wrong.
SPEAKER_01No, but no, you are right though, it does play perfectly fine at two, it's not like you have to house rule anything or or whatever.
SPEAKER_00No automata involved, no.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so it does play perfectly well at two. Um but yeah.
SPEAKER_00But yeah, get four people and a few drinks in them, and this will probably be a lot more fun. A lot more fun than playing it as a two-player.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um so because of that, I I've given it a four. So I I think it's mechanically sound, but I I I do think from from the fun factors crying out for more.
SPEAKER_01Okay, I laughed because I scored a two, but then I guess that's both fun and mechanics for me, I think.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, well that that's what it is for you, that's fine. Yeah, you think it would be mechanically better. And I appreciate your points. I I get why you why you think that.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_00Okay, should we?
SPEAKER_02So let's add it up.
SPEAKER_01So that gives us an overall two-player rating of four, which is low, actually, especially because this is the version version that everyone says you should play if you want to play two player clank.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, which again makes maybe maybe the original's not so good for us and our situation. So, yeah. This one's a bit gutting, really, because I really wanted to like this a lot more than I did. And I'm I'm I'm kind of sad that it just didn't gel with us. But there's 20,000 more fish in the sea, as it were.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00It's just one of those really major ones that there's I think it's the first really, really well-loved major game I've come across where it's just like that's doesn't do it for me. It's not for me. And maybe that's the conclusion, it's just not for me. But as always with these things, if any of the points that we've raised resonate with you, you might want to try before you buy. Um, or you may think of that that sounds like a blast. I don't know what you're talking about, then go out and get it and treat everybody else having loads of fun with it. I'm not. Um, so yeah, thank you once again for for joining us. Um if you could give us a like and subscribe if you do uh seeing this on YouTube or a review on your podcast medium of choice, that would be massively appreciated. But until next time, be good to each other, have fun, and play lots of board games.
