Episode 24 - Quacks of Quedlingberg: Hubble Bubble

Thanks for joining us for another episode!

In this edition of Board With Each Other, we cast our critical eye over Quacks of Quedlingberg (The Mega Box to be precise), a push your luck bag builder where you use a variety of outlandish ingredients to create the best potion.  

As usual, we look at how well it works as a two player game, assess the mega box edition as a package and bemoan Al's cursed level of luck. We hope you enjoy!

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:15

Hello everybody and welcome back to another episode of Board with Each Other, the board gaming podcast that looks at board games through the lens of playing them at two players, whether that is with your BFF, your significant other, or that witch that just keeps putting really random ingredients in a pop but makes very, very tasty soup.

SPEAKER_00 0:34

Hey, that's one nice way to talk about me.

SPEAKER_02 0:36

Well, it needs to be said. I'm Al Simpson, and I'm joined as ever by my player two, lovely wife, Hannah Kelly.

SPEAKER_00 0:43

Hi, and also quite a good cook, apparently.

SPEAKER_02 0:45

Very good cook, just for the record. Um, today we are talking about the potion making randomness that is Quacks of Quedlingburg. I hope I've pronounced that right. Uh Quacks of Quedlingburg is Push Your Luck. Push your luck game, yeah. That's what I was trying to think of the best way to describe it, where you take the role of a witch or alchemist or, you know, somebody who just likes putting ingredients into a pot, and you basically manage a bag full of ingredients. On your turn, you take ingredients out of your bag uh simultaneously with other players and place them into your pot. The different ingredients all have different effects that vary from game to game, but the one constant is cherry bombs. Cherry bombs basically all ingredients have a point value, and that point value dictates how many spaces along the uh the pot track you you put each ingredient. And if you exceed more than seven points worth of cherry bombs, your potion explodes, and you have negative effects at the scoring phase. Once you have finished putting ingredients into your pot, you can stop at any time. You then go to sort of an end of the round phase, and in that phase you gain victory points depending on how far along the pot you've got, how far along the track you've got.

SPEAKER_00 2:00

So other players can keep placing, so once you've stopped, the other players around the table can keep placing until they choose to stop.

SPEAKER_02 2:06

Yeah, so each you you operate simultaneously and each person just uh passes where they want to pause or their potion explodes. You then get the victory points, and you also get to buy new ingredients depending again on how far along you've got in the in the pot track. The kicker is if your potion exploded, you can only do one of those two things, whereas if you didn't explode, you can do both. Victory points are then calculated, and you begin a new round. There's a few twists in the tail here. The first one is there is a deck of cards. I can't remember the top off the top of my head what it's called, but there's a deck of cards that you draw cards, basically an event deck that you draw at the start of every turn, and those have impacts for the rest of the round. Uh, most of them are positive, some only affect one player, some affect everybody. Um you also accumulate rubies during the game, depending on where you end in the scoring track and through card effects, etc. You can use those rubies to uh move your water droplet up. Um, your water droplet starts at the zero point, but it basically gives you a head start in subsequent rounds.

SPEAKER_00 3:09

So the more you move it up, the further along the point you start, which means you accumulate more victory points and therefore also points to spend in the shop.

SPEAKER_02 3:16

Yeah, exactly. You also have a flask. You can flip your flask over to return one of your cherry bombs to the bag, but you must do it. But you must do that before your potion explodes. You can't do it if you draw a cherry bomb and your potion's exploded.

SPEAKER_00 3:31

So you have to do it immediately when you draw that cherry bomb as long as your pot hasn't exploded. You can't then go back and wipe one from the board that you've already placed.

SPEAKER_02 3:39

No, you can't. Um it's a one-use item, but you can refill it using the aforementioned rubies. You start the game with a number of ingredients out of the table. As turns go on, more ingredients get added, and the ingredients is where the complexity of this game lies, where all the ingredients have different effects. So, for example, there's an ingredient that if you place it on a space with a ruby, you get to take that ruby immediately. There are other ones that basically let you save them and put them down when you want. There's a huge variety of different effects and different ingredients, and I won't go through even the quarter of them here. Um the game suggests that you play the ingredients that are in sets. So there, I think in the base game, there are four sets that come four or five, and they recommend you play them as a set because they're balanced, but as you get more uh more into the game, you can always just shuffle them and deal them out randomly. As the turns go on, some turns have special effects, such as adding a new ingredient for purchase, or when you get about halfway through the game, you have to add another cherry bomb into your bag to sort of balance out the ingredients that you've been buying. You can only buy two ingredients per turn, so that's your limit. So no matter how many points you you get, you can't just go buck wild and buy five different cheap ingredients, for example, in the late game. And play continues until the ninth and final round where you score.

SPEAKER_00 5:03

The only thing you've not mentioned is the final Alchemist expansion where you have spells.

SPEAKER_02 5:08

So I haven't mentioned any of the expansions yet. Oh, okay. So that's the base game. We bought Quacks with uh we got the Mega Box, which basically includes the Herb Witches and the Alchemist's expansion. So our experience of the game has always mainly been with playing with those expansions. So one expansion is more major than the other, uh which is Alchemist, which adds uh another player board basically and adds another phase to the game. Um the smaller expansion, Herb Witchers, basically allows you to have three one-use powers that you use during the game, which are again randomised at the start, where you give coins to a witch and they will do certain things for you. But yes, I think that's a a fair summary of the rules. Anything else you want to add?

SPEAKER_00 5:50

So I would say the thing about the alchemist expansion is that you get to pick um at the start of the game which uh one particular spell, and that allows you to do different things in game, so when you come to spend your victory point, it allows you to add sort of almost like another multiplier or another bonus on top of that, to just adds a little bit, I think, of strategic depth.

SPEAKER_02 6:10

Yeah, the the the different spells that you choose uh vary quite significantly in terms of the effects that they have on the game, and there's a new phase when you play with it that comes straight after the potion phase of building your potion or building your your um pop. But yeah, I think that's the the rules essentially in uh in a nutshell.

SPEAKER_00 6:27

Yeah, games um I think probably around 40 minutes.

SPEAKER_02 6:31

Yeah, I would say 40 minutes to an hour. It says 45 minutes on the box, um, but I think a couple have gone on a little bit longer than that, oddly enough.

SPEAKER_00 6:39

Yeah. Um I think obviously that depends on um, you know, how quickly your pot explodes and how likely you are to push one up.

SPEAKER_02 6:46

Yeah, much more on that in a minute. Um it's one of those games where I don't think adding more players would increase the runtime because you take most of your well, most of the action occurs simultaneously. There are options, the way on ways to do that. Um the rules as written state that you just all go at your own pace and stop whenever you want to, until the final round where you have to each basically hold your hand out with your ingredient in it, and when everybody's ready you reveal their ingredient and you repeat that. Games might go on a little bit longer for us because we do that the entire way through, because I think it's a little bit more strategic to do that.

SPEAKER_00 7:24

Yeah. So, for example, if I know that you've got six in your pot, I might, you know, decide to push your luck a little bit more.

SPEAKER_02 7:30

Decide push my luck a little bit more just to try and um I can't remember whether that's actually in the rule book or not, or if we just house ruled that, but no, I think that is in the rule book.

SPEAKER_00 7:37

I think it is in the rule. I think you should do that for every.

SPEAKER_02 7:39

No, you're not. No, in the rule book, you're not. It's uh it states you just go, just go at it, and when everybody's done, then you move on. Um we both think I I think no that's stop me if I'm wrong, but the game works a bit better if you do that final round approach to the simultaneous play. Yeah, but again, that might slow things down a little bit if you're playing the four people.

SPEAKER_01 7:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:00

Okay. Um anything else you want to add? I had my eye on this for quite a while. It was a very, very kind Christmas present from uh the person sitting across from me. Um it's uh a bit of a modern classic, I think. It's quite quite one of the bigger ones we've approached. And yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:21

Yeah, I mean, I think that's probably it. Let's move on to scoring. Um, so first under our general category is components, and I would like to wait in here and start to talk about specifically the box.

SPEAKER_02 8:32

Oh god, yeah. Here we go. Okay, can I just put a little disclaimer at the start of all of this? Throughout our review here, I know we usually review base games, but because we got this as a mega box, we are going to be reviewing it as a full package. So we are going to include the anything you hear us talk about, the expansions are included in this. So this is not just the base game. I'll try to allude to major, major differences where I think if you are going to purchase just the base game, it's worth mentioning. But aside from that, take it as we are talking about the full package here. And the mega box itself, because your complaint is to do with the mega box.

SPEAKER_00 9:07

It is absolutely massive. Do go off. So the mega box is massive. It is absolutely massive.

SPEAKER_02 9:13

Unreasonably large.

SPEAKER_00 9:15

It is unreasonably large. And so here's the thing: if you bought the base game plus the two individual expansions, it would take up less space on your shelf than the actual mega box. Yes, which kind of seems stupid.

SPEAKER_01 9:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:28

And then add it to that, if you open said mega box, there's no inserts or anything.

SPEAKER_01 9:34

No.

SPEAKER_00 9:34

There are two. So there's two like compartments.

SPEAKER_02 9:37

There's a divider. There's a divider down the middle.

SPEAKER_00 9:39

And here's the thing the actual components don't even fit inside those compartments, so you've still got stuff sitting on top. And I just think if you are proud of a game and you want to bundle it up, then put a little bit more care and thought into how you design that box because it's really fucking irritating. It really, really annoys me. And you've still got loads of parts that are sloshing around all over the place, and because of that, setup actually takes and arguably tear down takes a lot longer than it needs to be because you're trying to assemble it all into this box when you know that as soon as you put it on the shelf, it's all going to slop around and fall out all over the place.

SPEAKER_02 10:15

It's an incredibly awkward size. I don't know why they went for sort of it's like.

SPEAKER_00 10:19

I mean, it's only 50 centimetres long, I reckon.

SPEAKER_02 10:21

Yeah. It's just like massive surface area as opposed to just making it chunkier and deeper. Like even if you compare it to something like Gloomhaven, which has ten times the amount of the components, it's kind of a smaller shelf imprint because it's just so long. I don't know why I asked.

SPEAKER_00 10:38

And also quite wide as well. So it just doesn't fit neatly. It would never fit in a calyx.

SPEAKER_02 10:44

No, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 10:45

It doesn't fit on our ginormous bookshelf. It's just just awkward. It's really awkward, and just have a little bit more care, guys. It's really disappointing.

SPEAKER_02 10:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:55

I think that they didn't take some time just to think about how they packaged it up.

SPEAKER_02 10:58

Yeah, a de just a bit more thought on a decent insert would have gone a very, very long way, I think, with us. But yeah, it like Hannah says, I agree with her, it just it sloshes around of the box and everything just gets mixed up.

SPEAKER_00 11:09

And as a result, then things are gonna get damaged, aren't they? Yeah. Like more quickly because it's being you know knocked around, etc. However, that said, the artwork is absolutely lovely and really endearing. It really reminds me of the Discworld series and all the artwork on the books that's by Paul Kidbe.

SPEAKER_02 11:26

Paul Kidby, yeah. It's really lovely and appealing. Yeah, it looks very cool out on the table. Um, the big potion boards, everything's very, very big and chunky, and yeah, it's got that Kidby-esque art style to it. It's it's fun.

SPEAKER_00 11:42

Yep. And I would say, because of that, it's really memorable as well.

SPEAKER_02 11:45

Yeah, it does stick out in the memory. I I do agree with you though, yeah. Um on a components basis, everything's chunky enough, everything's well made. Like, I haven't got any major complaints with any of it.

SPEAKER_00 11:56

Um, a lot of the actual ingredients are very small and fiddly, um, which is probably a point worth mentioning. I don't think that's a criticism necessarily. I don't think I should be able to get it. No, I think they have to be to make it scorn fiddly, but it comes with some really nice bags.

SPEAKER_02 12:08

Yes, it does, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:09

Um, and so they've thought about that, and that's really nice.

SPEAKER_02 12:12

Um The actual bags, your bags are really quite saturated and lush and ice, so velvety.

SPEAKER_00 12:19

Yeah, so they are really lovely.

SPEAKER_02 12:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:21

Um what I will say though, when you're playing the full game with both of the expansions, my god, is it a table hog?

SPEAKER_02 12:29

Yeah, it's big.

SPEAKER_00 12:30

It's really big, and for a game that doesn't feel uh I feel like it's too big for what it is. I don't know how else to justify it.

SPEAKER_02 12:38

Well, I I think that's fair. There's a footprint versus complexity thing. Yeah, and in terms of complexity, it's one of the larger footprints I've seen. Particularly, I mean, two players, it's it's big, but four players around the table.

SPEAKER_00 12:50

Because those need a huge table.

SPEAKER_02 12:52

Because those potion boards are so big and you've got so much laid out on the table as well.

SPEAKER_00 12:56

Other stuff that straps onto it and size onto those.

SPEAKER_02 13:00

Yeah, with the expansions, your board becomes larger and larger. It's actually quite this expansive thing. So you've got four people sitting around with that, then you've got to need room for all the rest of it.

SPEAKER_00 13:08

All your chips, of which there are like what, six different colours, maybe?

SPEAKER_02 13:12

Yeah, six to seven, I think, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:14

Plus a scoring board, plus like the instructions on what each of the components do. Like, it is large.

SPEAKER_02 13:22

Absolutely. So, yeah, it it it it has got a huge table of.

SPEAKER_00 13:26

And again, would I score it down for that? No, not not really. No, but I think it's worth mentioning.

SPEAKER_02 13:31

Yeah, definitely worth mentioning. Um, okay, so what did you settle on?

SPEAKER_00 13:35

I also wonder whether you wanted to talk about the rule book.

SPEAKER_02 13:37

Oh, yes, the rule book. Yeah, I already struggled with this rule book for some reason for quite a simple game. I just found it quite poorly laid out. Nothing ever seemed to be where whenever I refer to it, nothing ever seemed to be in the right place.

SPEAKER_00 13:49

And I suppose my question to you is then, is that another mega box expansion issue where they've just not given it the love and the TLC that it really deserves? Quite possibly. By not thinking about it and they've just taken all the three rule books and just Yeah, they have taken the three rule books and basically stapled them together. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:05

Yeah. Yeah. Um, yeah, and again, I think if you're producing a package like this, you know, a little bit of extra care and attention goes a long way.

SPEAKER_00 14:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:13

Yeah. So what did you score it then?

SPEAKER_00 14:15

So, I mean, I would have scored this a lot higher if it weren't for the way in which that it's packaged. Yeah, fair enough. So as a result, I scored it six because I just think you could have done better, guys.

SPEAKER_02 14:26

Shit. Yep, fair enough. I gave it a seven. Um, I think the art style and the look on the table goes a long way for me, but I do echo Hannah's complaints. I think the the box and insert annoy you more than they do me, so I think that's fair, and though you marked down an extra point.

SPEAKER_00 14:42

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 14:43

Alright.

SPEAKER_00 14:44

Alright, so then on to my next category, which is complexity. So, as always, um, it's not necessarily about how complex something is or isn't, but it's how well the complexity serves the game. We also can think about things like analysis paralysis and also how much we argue about the rules. There's very little rule archiving about this.

SPEAKER_02 15:03

No, no, also no time for analysis paralysis, you're throwing things in the park. Well, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 15:08

It's it's very luck-based, there's no analysis paralysis.

SPEAKER_02 15:11

Absolutely. Um I think I'll be quite direct with this one. I think this is a really elegant system that creates a game that I think most people could pick up fairly easily that are vaguely, you know, uh vaguely board game experienced.

SPEAKER_00 15:34

I I think it's really good for novices, like people who are quite fresh to board games. I could see you thinking it's that funny.

SPEAKER_02 15:39

I think I could see people uh with the two expansions, eyes glazing over if they were very, very novice in board games. Like I tried to think of, you know, bringing this out with grandparents with the expansions might cause something.

SPEAKER_00 15:52

For the base game, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 15:54

Seizure. Um, but I think it is a very, very elegant system. I think it is quite unique compared to the things I played before, and I think the complexity really does serve what it is. I think it is just complex enough. I think if you subtract the expansions away, for me it's not complex enough, but that's that's very much a personal preference. I like my game, it's a little bit meatier. Um, but I think with the with the expansions, I think it it is exactly as it should be.

SPEAKER_00 16:22

But I also think what's really lovely about this in terms of the expansions is there are different elements to that. So it might be, for example, that you don't play with the um with the alchemist part of it. Yeah, it's quite modular, it's quite modular, so you you can decide what it is that you want to do for that game session, and also you talked about it as well about whether we randomise what the components do. You know, so again, if you want something a bit more challenging or a bit more like off the wall, then you can do it.

SPEAKER_02 16:48

Less balanced, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:49

You know, so you you can pick kind of there's a lot of player agency.

SPEAKER_02 16:53

There's a lot of player agency, and I've seen people talk about taking just little aspects of some of the expansions and popping those in their games, a bit like chucking ingredients in a pot, which I think is very thematic. You know, you can take take from it what you will, and it'll still I think the core rule set is strong enough that it will still it still works, yeah. You know, it still works and doesn't take anything away from the game. Um, that basic premise that the whole game, the foundation of the game is built on, is very easy to understand and very solid.

SPEAKER_01 17:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:24

So I think it it serves it really, really well. I think it's it's quite very, very much bang on this one, and I've given an eight as a result.

SPEAKER_00 17:31

I have also given an eight for exactly the same reasons, and again, one of the things that I also think uh be because of that not simplicity necessarily, but how accessible those rules are, you can play it with a huge span of generations. Absolutely, and I think that's what really makes Quacks stand out for the game.

SPEAKER_02 17:50

Yeah, I I think you know you you need to play with um some vaguely novice board gamers, or you want to get your 10 and your 12 year old around the table. That it works for both of those things really well. Likewise, even experienced board gamers that want to turn their brains off a little bit for you know, you don't want to play Terra Mystica, you want something a little bit more chill. Again, it works because there's enough meat on the bones for it to work in all those and you can pump it up a little bit with your expansions. Absolutely, so it works in all of those um theatres and stuff. So I I I think it's really, really good for that.

unknown 18:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:23

Alright, so let's move on to shelf life, which includes things like value for money and also replayability. So, what does the Mega Box retail for?

SPEAKER_02 18:32

So the last time I looked it was 50 something quid.

SPEAKER_00 18:36

Last time you looked, you'd be like two minutes ago.

SPEAKER_02 18:39

Don't let them look behind the curtain, Hannah.

SPEAKER_00 18:42

Okay, so 50 or quid.

SPEAKER_02 18:45

Um the standalone game itself, just the base game, goes for about 35.

SPEAKER_00 18:50

Um, so look, we veer towards heavy games. Do I think that I see us playing this forever? I think potentially yes.

SPEAKER_02 19:04

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 19:06

Mainly because I think I will always want to keep it on the shelf because it has got such a wide appeal. Um, I think it's really good for kids, for older people, I think it's really good for having friends round. Do I think that we would keep playing it as a couple, as a two-player? I think that's a different question.

SPEAKER_02 19:24

Yeah, that that was the question I was thinking.

SPEAKER_00 19:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:27

Yeah. I I agree with you. It's one of those that's great to have in the collection. Do I reach for this now after over 10 games that we played? No.

SPEAKER_00 19:39

However, what I will say is that we started off playing just the vanilla and then we quickly added in the expansions. Oh, I do think the expansions really made it. Yeah. So, in terms of value for money, I think yes, your£50 price point is better because it includes your expansions that I think are much needed, particularly when you are more into heavy games or you play a lot as a couple or as a pair.

SPEAKER_02 20:01

Yeah. Um Yeah, no, I I 100% agree. I think I think the the mega box, despite what we marked it down for in components, is the best option, yeah, I think. Because I think the base game is a little bit too much on the light side for me.

SPEAKER_01 20:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:20

Um I I I don't think it's got much staying power. I think the expansions do offer a lot of extra dimension to the game.

SPEAKER_00 20:29

But I suppose the minor question is, would I pay£50 for that? I'm I'm not sure. I'm on the phones.

SPEAKER_02 20:37

I I think£50 for a game and two fairly significant expansions is really good value for money.

SPEAKER_00 20:45

Would I pay£50 just off the clock now that I've played it? I don't I don't know. I guess that very much depends on how you play and you know what it is that you want from a board game.

SPEAKER_02 20:56

Yeah, I think that's very much down to personal preference.

SPEAKER_00 20:58

If it was on sale, absolutely. Even if you're not 10 quid off that, definitely. I think that's an absolute bargain and an absolute steal.

SPEAKER_02 21:04

Yeah, I mean, uh this is where I I'm at with it. I I I agree with you that it's a it's a good thing to have in the collection. I think it spans generations and spans board gaming ability, which is always a nice thing to have on the shelf. I think if we think about it from the perspective of us, you know, playing as a couple, I think the shelf life isn't there for me. I think I have grown quite bored of it quite quickly. Yeah. Um, but I do think if you pick up the mega box, it is very, very good value for money. So you know, swings and roundabouts and all that.

SPEAKER_00 21:39

So what did you score it then?

SPEAKER_02 21:40

Six.

SPEAKER_00 21:41

Okay, so I scored it a seven because I think I was looking at not specifically from a couple's rating. Sure. But um yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:46

I think as long as that's clear. Yeah, fine. Okay. Alright. Is Quacks any funny?

SPEAKER_00 21:56

Um I already struggled with how to score this and how to answer it. It um and I think maybe we'll perhaps pick on some of this more as we talk about our two-player rating categories. Um, yeah, I enjoy it. I do have a good time. I think I have had more of a good time the more expansions we've added because it's added more diversity and more play options, you know, um, and it's kept that sort of spice alive. Isn't the most fun that I've had playing a board game? No. Um, but yeah, it is really appealing and really heartwarming and endearing. And we I don't yeah, it's hard.

SPEAKER_02 22:30

Okay. So I'm gonna go off you. Okay, alright, off you go. Um, this game hates me.

SPEAKER_01 22:37

Oh god, yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_02 22:39

I've never felt a game actually have an emotional uh stance on me personally, but I feel like this one does. Um I have, dear listener, the worst luck I've ever experienced in any board game in this game.

SPEAKER_00 22:58

So the way that I like to think about this is you used up all your good luck, meeting and then marrying me.

SPEAKER_02 23:04

This might be very, very true, and that's just karmically manifested in this game.

SPEAKER_00 23:09

I think if you've listened to our podcast before, we've also talked about Al's horrendous luck and in general dice.

SPEAKER_02 23:15

I like I like luck. I've always been clear that I like luck in ball games.

SPEAKER_00 23:19

But you are punished by it.

SPEAKER_02 23:20

But this game hates me.

SPEAKER_00 23:21

But this game specifically.

SPEAKER_02 23:23

And I'm sure you can attest to that.

SPEAKER_00 23:24

This is true.

SPEAKER_02 23:25

I will have a bag of 37 ingredients and I will pick out seven cherry bombs in a row. Every time. Not every time, I'm exaggerating for comedic effect, but I I can't I can't win this game because I just a massive gambler by nature, I'm not pushing my luck too far, I'm just vaguely trying to keep up, and it just kicks me in the teeth every single time. And I know it's a me thing, I know it's luck, and I feel really, really mean, but I don't have as much fun playing it because I cannot get any fucking wear because the bag just beats me over the head.

SPEAKER_00 24:04

I mean, he's not lying, guys, he really isn't. Like, I think the last game that we played it was just cherry bum after cherry bomb after cherry bomb. I was quite happily, merrily, you know.

SPEAKER_02 24:13

Yeah, I mean, you were getting halfway along your parts, and I was just still stuck exploding every single turn, just desperately trying to keep up.

SPEAKER_01 24:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:21

And I think there is a thing there, I think it is worth mentioning that I think, and we'll come to this a bit more later, but as a two-player experience where we like to sit down in a competitive game and put our wits against each other. If you have a bad run of luck in this, there's nothing you can do. No, you can try every mitigation the game has, which I do, to to try and combat that, but at the end of the day, if you're just drawing nothing but duds, I am not a bad loser. I don't tend to get angry at more games. This is the closest I've come to table flipping out of any game I think I've ever played because I was just like, I can't do anything about this. I'm just sitting here and this is just happening to me.

SPEAKER_00 25:02

And I think you know But what I would also say is that you are just incredibly unfortunate. Yeah. And I don't think most people would have the same experience that you have. And then but there are also ways the game has designed uh and built in the game to kind of mitigate that. So, for example, on your victory track, if you are uh significant. Oh rap tails, I didn't mention those in the rules here. If you didn't mention it, um, but if you are significantly behind, you can look on your victory scoring thing, and however many rat tails there are between you and the leader, you get to move your water pot up. So it's a really nice way of being able to level things. There's a rat token that you could put that basically gives you sort of a head start on the next uh um and that's a really lovely way of levelling things, particularly if you're playing with kids, for example, or people that really are if you're completely shit out of luck, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:53

Which is which is which is me. But even with those, it didn't help. I still lose my significant margin. Um and I know it's personal and obviously take it with a pinch of salt, but I cannot divorce my experience from my rating.

SPEAKER_00 26:08

Yeah. And as uh again, if you've listened to this before, I'm not such a massive fan of luck-based games. Yeah, you're far more less luck, better. Yeah, I I prefer a little bit more strategy with them, and because of that, I think it it doesn't hold the same appeal for me. Um, hence why perhaps I have less fun playing this. But it is really endearing, and it is really like it it it is a is a lovely package, and I think it nails the theme.

SPEAKER_02 26:33

Your mileage might vary depending on you. I think it nails the theme, it's it's a a a lovely madcap experience. Uh as as it should be, it's a fun game. Do I have fun playing it? No. So how did you score it then? Four.

SPEAKER_00 26:49

Okay, alright, fair enough. So I scored it a six. Okay. I think it's okay, it's it's a good game. Yeah. Just not the most fun I've ever had, but again, our personal preferences need to come into play soon.

SPEAKER_02 26:59

And that that is based on experience. I think as a game, I think it should be a lot more fun, but my experience of playing it has not been. And I think you've got to ask yourself the question would that bother me if you ended up being i i if if what happens to me in this game happened to you, would you find that really unfun and frustrating?

SPEAKER_00 27:19

You just have all of them.

SPEAKER_02 27:21

All of them. Yeah. But it happened to me, it could happen to you. How do you feel about that? Ask yourself that question and then use that that to make your decision about whether or not you'll find it fun.

SPEAKER_00 27:31

Okay, so should we top up our scores under the general?

SPEAKER_02 27:34

Yep, let's do that.

SPEAKER_00 27:34

Catch three.

SPEAKER_02 27:36

So that gives us an overall general rating of 6.5. So it's always we round, so that's a seven, but that's definitely a six slash seven, I think.

SPEAKER_00 27:44

Yeah. I think it would probably be higher if it weren't for that fucking god-awful box.

SPEAKER_02 27:49

And my luck. Alright, so shall we move on to our two player ratings?

SPEAKER_00 27:54

Absolutely. So the first under our two player rating scale category is table talks. That includes also things like getting to know you and that sort of discourse and discussion that you have whilst playing.

SPEAKER_02 28:05

Yeah, so this is an interesting one. This is a really interesting one. Because is there much table talk as part of the game?

SPEAKER_00 28:14

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 28:15

No. But is it a game that lets you chat while you play it? Yes.

SPEAKER_00 28:20

And for that reason, I think it is an amazing date game. Um, um, a really nice way of spending an evening with somebody.

SPEAKER_02 28:29

Yeah. Yeah. It's really fun, it's really lighthearted.

SPEAKER_00 28:32

You can say it's really fun after you're saying it was not fun at all for you.

SPEAKER_02 28:37

Fun in concept. Fun in concept. In practice, if you're me, less so. Anyway, moving on. Um it's got that atmosphere to it that's more conducive to having a laugh. You know, this is not a serious capital B board game, you know, this is this is this is something to have a laugh with.

SPEAKER_00 28:58

What I would say is again, as you add your expansions, there is more discussion at the table about what you're doing. I think one of the things that I really struggled with a vanilla was that actually you put your hand into a bag, you draw a chip, you have it in closed fists, and then you put it down on the board. Actually, there is no discourse around that. No, yeah. And so I think very quickly I formed some very negative judgments around that.

SPEAKER_02 29:22

But actually as you added expansions.

SPEAKER_00 29:24

As we've added expansions, and also as we've got our head around the rules and actually, you know, play it more for for fun rather than just learning the rules, I've actually softened a little bit on this.

SPEAKER_02 29:33

Okay, fair enough. Yeah, yeah, that's that's that's that's a fair point. I uh as one of those games that just has the space in the room for it, I think. Which is as you say, a great date game as such. Yeah, you know, those few glasses of wine, you know, it it's it's fun in that sense.

SPEAKER_00 29:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:49

You have a laugh with it.

SPEAKER_00 29:50

So how did you score it then?

SPEAKER_02 29:52

So I scored it a six.

SPEAKER_00 29:55

Yep, so I scored it a seven, mainly because I think that whilst actually there is no head-to-head like talking, it's just it's a really free-form, easy game, and you can quite easily go off and have conversations whilst you're playing it at the same time. Yeah. And I think that's a really rare quality, actually, in a ball game. We don't have many on our shelves on the case that you can just have a natto while banter or whatever while while playing it.

SPEAKER_02 30:22

Even not even connected to the game, really. Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 30:27

Alright, so then on to our next one, which is competitiveness.

SPEAKER_02 30:32

Um yeah, this is this is not this is if you want to test your wits against somebody, this is not it. This is not a competitive game.

SPEAKER_00 30:46

No.

SPEAKER_02 30:47

It is a competitive game, but it is not a competitive game.

SPEAKER_00 30:50

Um, however, there is that push your luck element, and so I think when you aren't absolutely decimating your opponent because your opponent has horrendous luck, cursed by somebody at some point. Yeah, exactly. Um, then I would say that there is that ability to go, well, actually they've got so many cherries, therefore I can probably risk it. And I think that push your luck component might be a bit more pronounced and a bit more fun, which would up that competitiveness. I'm stretching here a little bit.

SPEAKER_02 31:23

I this is not a game you play to beat somebody else up. This is a game you play for the fun of the experience. Yes. And if that is your bag, lovely, fine. Um but this rate the this category is what it is, and I'm going to score it as such. This is not a competitive game in the slightest. Luck involved. There's far, far too little decision space.

SPEAKER_00 31:50

Well, actually, again, I also disagree with that because I think there are real choices that can be made around so if your pot explodes, whether you take the victory points or whether you're shopping for new items. I also think, in terms of you know, what um ingredients you buy is also can be quite strategic. So sometimes I will just go for maximum value and spend all my points, or it might be that actually, no, because of my my my alchemist expansion spell I'm trying to go for, I might really focus on something else. So I think it does allow that strategic depth, but does that immediately feel like I'm in com competition with you, I'm not fighting over resources? That's that's yeah, so I think there's a difference between strategy versus that feeling of competitiveness, competitiveness.

SPEAKER_02 32:38

I get this point in a lot of games where I'm kind of like, right, pull your chair forward. It's it's the video game player variant of leaning forward a little bit with a controller where you get locked in, you're like, right, okay, we're on now, and I'm gonna I'm gonna take you on. I've never had that once in this. Never ever.

SPEAKER_00 32:54

That's not what this game is, though.

SPEAKER_02 32:56

No, it isn't, but I think I want to make it really clear that I just I don't think it ticks that box at all. And that's that's not a negative statement about the game. I think you just need to be very aware going into this that if that's what you're after, you're not going to get it yet.

SPEAKER_00 33:12

No, agreed. Completely. I mean, how did you score it then?

SPEAKER_02 33:15

Three.

SPEAKER_00 33:16

Oh really? So I scored it a six. Oh really? Yeah, I I feel like that element is there.

SPEAKER_02 33:21

Yeah, and I think I don't see it.

SPEAKER_00 33:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:24

I don't see it. But maybe that's because I'm so terrible at it.

SPEAKER_00 33:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:28

I mean, again, if you play with someone that isn't jinxed, then Yeah, you might might be a little bit closer, but yeah, that that's that's my honest opinion on it.

SPEAKER_00 33:35

Okay, fair enough.

SPEAKER_02 33:36

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 33:36

Alright, so final one, scalability. So really the the the question is, well, is this crying out for more players?

SPEAKER_02 33:46

Yeah, and this is all this is an interesting one. Because mechanically, as a game.

SPEAKER_00 33:51

No.

SPEAKER_02 33:52

No, this works perfectly fine at any player count, as far as I can see.

SPEAKER_00 33:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:58

I don't think you're losing anything mechanically playing this as two players.

SPEAKER_00 34:02

It doesn't make it longer particularly. No.

SPEAKER_02 34:04

No.

SPEAKER_00 34:05

Um, it doesn't even I think some of the things that you see when you you've got more players is that you get somebody that w streaks into the into into the lead, whereas actually you don't have this with this because you've got the raptile element to be able to balance it. So I don't think that happens either. Um they thought quite carefully about that.

SPEAKER_02 34:22

Yeah. So mechanically, works perfectly well as two players. However, we're going to have a heart and head conversation here because this game screams out for more people around the table.

SPEAKER_00 34:36

Do you reckon?

SPEAKER_02 34:36

I absolutely. I think it would change the fun factor for me quite substantially, because I think there's just a lot more going on, there's a lot more banter, there's a lot more laughter, there's a lot more fun. It's a the kind of game that suits a four-play environment a lot better than a two-play environment, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_00 34:56

See, that's really interesting because so part of me was thinking, well, actually, I just really like to play with somebody that isn't new. See my face again, right? Um no, but I mean uh you know, the luck issue is something I I do think it would be nice to play with somebody less like kicking a puppy. Yeah, a little bit. But I I don't know, I think it would be too easy to lose track of what's happening. Oh, I just think there'd be so much more going on.

SPEAKER_02 35:24

And I think if it I think I think you just have so much better time with more people involved, and I think that's in a spirit what it's meant to be.

SPEAKER_00 35:33

Yeah, no, I do I do agree with that.

SPEAKER_02 35:35

Um so it's a real heart and head thing here, and I've gone my heart on this one, and I've rated it quite lowly because I think it's screaming out for more people, just for that shared experience of a very light-hearted board game. And I think because the for for for my money, the the competitiveness is lacking, I think you add more people, their competitiveness becomes less of an issue for me because I think it's just about a shared experience, and I think that's what's missing for me. I think I quite happily crack this out if we had an extra two people sitting around the table, but for you and me, not so much, which makes me rate this lowly on this scale. Because I do have FOMO and I I do think it's crying out for more people, but not mechanically. I want to make that absolutely clear. If you worry that you're buying this and you're playing as a couple or or a pair, is it going to work? Yes, it absolutely will work. It's the same game. It's not you're not going to lose anything mechanically. But I think you will miss that social shared experience element of it.

SPEAKER_00 36:39

Yeah, uh I mean that's really interesting. So I rated it a six. I rated it a three. Because I didn't I I wanted to rate it a five, but I thought that was a cop out because it was directly in the middle, so I thought well I have to push it one way or the other. And do I think that it is slightly better at a two-player? Which I think it probably is, because I can see us playing this with friends and actually us forgetting to play the game because we're too busy talking about other stuff.

SPEAKER_02 37:03

Yeah, but isn't that okay sometimes?

SPEAKER_00 37:06

Yes, but doesn't that mean that it doesn't work so well as a multiplayer?

SPEAKER_02 37:10

I don't know. I don't know. But I that's what that's what's missing from me. Yeah. So that's why I've scored it the way I've I've scored it. I think this will be more fun with more people for me.

SPEAKER_00 37:20

Okay, alright.

SPEAKER_02 37:20

Massively more fun with more people.

SPEAKER_00 37:22

Fair enough. Should we add those up then?

SPEAKER_02 37:24

Yep. So I think it's fair to say that we've come from very different ends of the scale on this one, but we've settled on an average of five. So take that as you will.

SPEAKER_00 37:34

It's definitely playable at two, and I think it is still a good game for two. Yeah, it just depends what you want from a board game, and it's certainly not broken at all.

SPEAKER_02 37:42

No, it is not broken at all. And you can play it too. So I it's one of those cases where it's like, don't listen too much to the score. Listen to mine and Hannah's varying viewpoints and see what resonates with you more, really, as a as a consumer. Think about what we've said and what side of the fence you fall on, and go with your gut from that, really.

SPEAKER_01 38:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:02

Right. So thank you again for joining us. Um, we hope you enjoyed it. And until next time, be good to each other. Have fun, play lots of board games.