Board With Each Other
A podcast that looks at Board Games / Tabletop Gaming through the lens of playing as a couple or with a regular gaming partner. Hosted by Al & Hannah, We review a game each episode.
Board With Each Other
Episode 29 - Akrotiri: We Need Lava!
Hello there!
In this month's episode we appraise the 2 player tile-laying, island hopping, temple excavating duel that is Akrotiri. A bit of a hidden gem this one, so if any of those things appeal and you've never encountered it, hopefully this clues you in to what might be a new favourite. We hope you enjoy!
Hello everybody and welcome to another episode of Board With Each Other, the board gaming podcast that reviews board games and looks at them through the lens of how well they play at two players. Whether that be with a good friend, your significant other, or with that Greek archaeologist that keeps digging up your backyard and you distract him to make him stop. My name's Al Simpson, and I'm joined as ever by my co-host, my wife, and my player too, Hannah Kelly.
SPEAKER_03:You didn't say lovely wife, you normally say lovely wife.
SPEAKER_01:My lovely wife.
SPEAKER_03:My guys.
SPEAKER_01:Somebody sleeping on the sofa tonight. And today we are reviewing Acrotiri. Acrotiri is a two-player jewel. And in Acrotiri you take the role of an explorer archaeologist, I can't quite remember which. But you are basically traveling around the Greek archipelago trying to excavate uh lost temples. How this works is that you each player controls a boat, so you use the boat to travel around the islands, and the game is played on a modular tile laid board. So in essence it is a tile laying game, but there's a bit more to it than your classic sort of layer tile get points. As you start your turn, you draw a tile and you lay one down, and the tiles form a series of islands, but also a series of shipping lanes and docks through which your boats can travel. When you place a tile down, you place each tile has got a resource on it, which are essentially stone, water, wood, and volcanoes.
SPEAKER_03:Fire, yes.
SPEAKER_01:Well, yeah, it's a bit of an odd one. Um but each tile has one of those resources on one of its islands. You place that resource from a marker place board, and you place an extra wild resource of one of your choice on a different island on that tile. On your turn, you can take a number of actions. You start out being able to take three actions a turn, and they increase as the game goes along and you excavate temples. You can move your boat. Uh if it's empty, it can move quicker. You can travel over land from one dock to another, call portage. Uh you can load your boat with resources, uh, for which you can hold three, and it's quite handy to remember that because your boat physically holds three of the resource cubes. And you can buy map tiles, I'll get to those in a little bit, from the main central island. Or you can consult the oracle, which basically means you get to flip cards from the tile deck until you get one with the resource that you would like. The main crux of the game is trying to locate and excavate temples. To do so, you have map cards, which is split into three difficulties, easy, medium, hard. And on those map cards, there will be a number of resources on the four compass points. When you lay your map card down on the orientation of which you are facing, you need to find an island on the board that meets the criteria of all those resources. So, for example, you'll need an I'd find an island that has a uh red resource to the north and two green to the east, for example.
SPEAKER_03:What's really important is you mentioned this, is it very much depends on where you are positioned to the board. Yes. So you could essentially both end up with exactly the same card, map tile, but you could be mirrored if you see each other.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:So you couldn't necessarily choose the same island.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, it's your orientation the way you are facing.
SPEAKER_03:Which confuses me a lot.
SPEAKER_01:They did that one time, but I think you kind of got after that. When you excavate an island, you have to pay Drachma, which is the currency in the game. And you can choose anywhere on the island that you are docked at, provided it meets the uh map tile card the map tile criteria. You place the island down and you usually from that get more actions per turn. Or you get new gold cards. You draw two gold cards at the start of the game, pick one, and then every time you draw, you draw two and pick one. Gold cards basically give you victory points depending on where your island, where your uh temples have been built. So for example, there's one that gives you two points for each quadrant of the map that you built a temple in, there's one that gives you two points for every um temple you built with a specific resource on it, etc. etc. I think there's about ten different ones.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, all with varying degrees different differences in victory points.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and difficulties, obviously. Um play continues until a player places their final island, and if they temple, sorry, I keep saying islands in the temple. Once a player places their final temple, if they are the first player, the other person gets another turn. If they are the second player, the game ends immediately. And then you tally up your victory points. You get victory points for each map card that you have successfully uh excavate a temple with, and obviously you get more victory points the harder the temple is. Um harder difficulties just have more resource requirements on them. Uh you get victory points depending on how much money you have left over. I think you get one for every 10. Yeah. And obviously your goal cards. And that I think is essentially it. Um there's a couple of free actions. Selling resources go up in value the more they are on the board. So they, as I said, they start on a marketplace, and the more they get put down, the greater the sale value of those when you do come to sell them. To sell them, you have to move to the central island, your starting point, but you can sell for free. Sell doesn't take it, selling doesn't take an action. There's also three levels to the number of maps you can buy. You can spend varying amounts of money to buy varying numbers of maps uh at the same time. You don't get a discount for getting more, getting more in one turn because it's one action actually costs quite a bit more. Anything else you think I've missed?
SPEAKER_03:No, that's probably about it. Um what I would say is running time is probably around half an hour quicker.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, definitely an hour.
SPEAKER_03:Do you reckon? Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Just time flies when you're having fun.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, no, I would say it runs about an hour, 45 minutes of press, but most of the games we played have taken over an hour. Okay. That's what breaks. So yeah. It's not not not as quick and simple as the box would suggest.
SPEAKER_03:No.
SPEAKER_01:We will get onto that in a second. Okay. So shall we get on to the scoring then?
SPEAKER_03:Sure. So first up, under our general criteria, we have components. So that includes what comes in the box, but also things like the amount of tough space it takes up and also um how quick it is to set up and take down.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Which I would say is mercifully and blessedly blessedly short with this one.
SPEAKER_01:It's really, really easy and really it's a very simple, quick setup. Um tear down, I think, actually takes a little bit longer than setup because you usually have cubes all over the shop and temples all over the shop. Um but yeah, to set up, I mean it's it's ten minutes if that.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. And given that it's a tile placement game, I actually don't think it's too bad in terms of table space.
SPEAKER_01:No, it's not because it is fairly it it it's it's self-limiting in a way. Um you will I mean, unless you just continue to play. I mean, we get I think we get about two-thirds of the way through the tiles most of the games that we play.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:So they've they've balanced the number of tiles quite effectively.
SPEAKER_03:And if you compare it with something like Carcassonne or even Clank, which again, tile laying games, I I feel like because of the nature of it, it tends to be quite contained, doesn't become very sprawling. We do tend to build out in rectangular circuits almost.
SPEAKER_01:But I think the game lends itself to that naturally because of trying to balance your resources on different compass points. So if you start building all off in one direction, you're gonna run a foul quite quickly. So you naturally it naturally self-contains in a way.
SPEAKER_03:And so, whilst it's not the kind of game that you can play in a pub, for example, it is a really good travel game. You could pack it and take on holiday.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, if you've got a reasonable size table, you'll be able to play it.
SPEAKER_03:Because the actual box itself is quite small and quite self-contained, um quite portable.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I th and I think that's one of the plus parts of the points when it comes to components. I mean, we haven't gotten to the components in general yet, but um the box is very small and it packs quite a lot into that. Yep. It's uh one of these games you could easily see coming in a much larger box and there being a massive waste of space, but they haven't done that, thankfully.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Um, it's roughly the size of a hardback book, a little bit bigger.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. Um the components themselves, I mean, to be honest, they're a bit book standard.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah, everything's perfectly serviceable. The the tiles are nice and chunky. Um, you've got wooden temple meeples, you've got all your little boat meeples. It's it it's it's great. You know, I've got nothing bad to say about it. Um I think again save space and make the box smaller. The player boards and the marketplace board are basically card. They just they just thin card stock. But I understand why they've done that. It's better there to keep the box as tiny as it is, which I think is absolutely fine. It's not one of those games where getting things disrupted on your player board is going to cause a massive problem.
SPEAKER_03:No, it's more the marketplace that's an issue, but the marketplace is set off to one side.
SPEAKER_01:And they're very easy to fix if it does get knocked because you just basically just count the number of cubes.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. Um, anything else you want to say?
SPEAKER_01:Um no, not but I think it looks very pretty.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, so the artwork is very sort of classical Greek artwork.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, but I think as like a tableau with tile placing games, some of them could look a bit messy, but this is this is very aesthetically pleasing when it's out on the table, I have to say, and I think I I rate it for that. Um a tile game, this nature should look good, and it does.
SPEAKER_03:Okay, so how did you score it?
SPEAKER_01:I gave it an eight.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, okay. So I gave it a six.
SPEAKER_01:Well, okay, alright. Do you want to talk to me a little bit more about it?
SPEAKER_03:I think so. For all the reasons that you rated it, um, around just the components uh just being a little bit bookstandard, really, there's nothing particularly stands out. And whilst you quite like the art, I don't know that it particularly inspires me. Okay. I mean, I don't know what they would have done differently. I think that's a preference thing. But yeah, fair enough.
SPEAKER_01:Okay. Yeah, no, I think it looks really, really pretty.
SPEAKER_03:Okay. Okay. So on to complexity. And as always, this isn't about how complex a game is or isn't, but how much the complexity suits the gameplay. We also talk about things like analysis, paralysis, and also how much we argue about the rules. Um it is very easy and simple to teach.
SPEAKER_01:It is, but it's not oversimple.
SPEAKER_03:No, it's not. And I think this is where the beauty of this game comes in.
SPEAKER_01:I think honestly, I think this is this game's strongest point.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Because there is a elegance to the rules that it isn't it is simple, but it is not dull. Uh, there's enough complexity there, and I often ask myself the question of would adding more to this make it a better game? And I don't think so. I think if you added anything to this or took anything away, any of the various facets of the rules, you'll end up with something lesser. But you would if you added something, I think. Um, and it's that very delicate balance that you don't see very often where actually they've they've they've nailed it. They've got they've got it absolutely for what it is, they've got it absolutely right.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. So I think it is very simple to teach. In in essence, it is lay a tile, build an island according to subject number of conditions, um, and then excavate a temple. Where your added complexity comes in is to your victory cards, what do you call the goal cards? Um, so making sure that you're satisfying those longer game um requirements, and that I think also those goal cards can be quite different. So actually, it's very difficult to preempt what it is that your partner's doing or your opponent is doing, should I say, and therefore it becomes quite difficult. How do you block them? Yeah, you know. Then what I also really love about it is that once you've got your head around the basic concepts, there is a huge amount of strategic depth of it.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Um that you don't are certainly I didn't appreciate to begin with, but it's only through repeated playthroughs. I'm beginning to realise just how much strategic and tactical depth there is in what looks to and appears to be a really relatively quite straightforward, simple game.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, no, there's a huge amount of depth here. And I think that there's also a very uh significant facet of this which is around resource management, which is not particularly obvious when you first start playing it. But as you on repeater plays, you start to see this real push and pull between spending money, selling, getting resources, and you if you if you mismanage your resources, you can get left behind quite quickly.
SPEAKER_03:And there's something really tactical about then where you place those resources and where you place your tile, because actually I want that and I need to make sure that I can get to it, or also I do not want him to get it, so I'm going to make this really difficult for him to get.
SPEAKER_01:To get to through shipping rate.
SPEAKER_03:Also, yeah through placing carefully or consideredly. Consideredly, is that a word? Um considerately. Considerately, where you place your resources means you can drive up the value of the ones that are in your own boat. So actually, now when I go into town to sell, I'm selling them for four drachma rather than two.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:So there's something really quite thinky about it in a way that I hadn't really fully appreciated. And to build your later temples or your more um your higher scoring ones, they are more expensive. And you need like nine, I think it's nine.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, the hard ones cost nine drachmas.
SPEAKER_03:And actually that's quite a lot of money for in-game currency.
SPEAKER_01:It is, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, you have to save up to them. Yeah, yeah, you've got to you've got to plan it really, really effectively. So yeah, I mean, I think in in in general, this is one of those games which I feel absolutely nails in in terms of how we treat this category. I couldn't ask for much better. Um, so I've given it a nine.
SPEAKER_03:Okay. Um, one of the things that I will say that I've downgraded it from is, um, and this is really quite picky. Downgraded it for, should I say, um, and it is really quite picky, is some of the iconography, particularly around your victory cards. It's not necessarily particularly intuitive. Every single time I get a victory card, I have to look it up and I have to look at the rules. And actually, some of them I'm still not entirely sure how to satisfy um because they are a bit convoluted and a bit confusing. Okay. And I maybe don't take them because I don't really understand how to do it. Okay. I don't want to tell you that I'm not taking it and ask you for advice. Um, so I think I downgraded it for that. Um, but I gave it an eight.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, fine. All right.
SPEAKER_03:Uh so next up, shelf life, and this includes things like value for money but also replayability. So, how much does it retail for?
SPEAKER_01:I think, and I say I think because it's actually out of print at the moment, but I think it used to retail somewhere in the mid-20s.
SPEAKER_03:Okay. Um, I would say that's exceptional value for money in terms of what you get in the box, the amount of games and the amount of fun that we've had out of it. I think mid-20s, bang on, really good price point.
SPEAKER_01:I think um you I've seen less. I've seen less for more, easily. Um, it's it's a deceptively small box, and you may think, oh, you know, 25 seems quite a lot for that small box, but it it's absolutely worth it in that sense. So let's talk about shelf life. Because this one I'm a little bit less sure about. I really enjoy my time with it, but there's part of me that wonders if it'll get a little bit old over roughly 10 plays, I think. That's sort of the that's sort of the shelf life I feel it has for me.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, is interesting, isn't it? Because I think something like Arcasson for you has infinitely more replayability.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:And I wonder why, because I think this is a better game by far. I think it is far more balanced, and we'll come on to this, and a tighter game in general. And yet, I agree with you, I reckon probably 10, maybe, 15 plays, and I'm probably gonna be done with it.
SPEAKER_01:I think it might be to do with how tight of a game it is. I think there perhaps isn't as large a decision space to keep me coming back to it over and over again. I th I because I've been trying to puzzle because I I I really like the game, but at the same time, I'm like, hmm, I'm probably not gonna play this forever. But when I'm trying to puzzle out in my own head why they why do I have that feeling, I think it's because there's almost only so much you can do. It's a very, very tight, very focused play experience. And I think some uh I think that X factor to take games over that sort of play this ten times, then maybe you know, once a year kind of category for me, which is where I think this will go. I think it's worth saying that I probably won't get rid of this because it's such a small box, and I think there'll always be the occasion where I want to pull it out and play it. Um but it's it just doesn't have that that that width, that breadth of tactical decision making that I think brings me back to games over and over again. Um, and I think because it's so tight, some of that excitement goes away. Uh that's that's the easiest I can articulate why I feel that way about this. And I don't think it's a negative about it at all because I think it's a really good value for money proposition. I just don't think it's going to be a a June or an arc novel or something that I could I could just play forever infinitely, you know. I I I do think it has a different shelf life with me.
SPEAKER_03:But also it's a different kind of game. It's it's it's it's not the same, it doesn't fill up the same you know, slot on our board game shelf or or or when we put it out for the evening. Um I think there's something there as well around competitivity.
SPEAKER_01:Competitiveness.
SPEAKER_03:Words are hard tonight, it's hot. Um so there is something about that, and I think we'll talk about a bit more about that.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, sure.
SPEAKER_03:Later on.
SPEAKER_01:Okay.
SPEAKER_03:Okay, so how did you score it?
SPEAKER_01:I gave it a six.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I gave it a six because whilst I really enjoy it and it's a really tight game, and I think it's exceptionally well balanced, it's just not gonna be that game that I'm reaching for over and over and over again.
SPEAKER_01:No, I think it it I think it's shelf life. I wouldn't say it's limited, but I think it it is it is finite in a way that things I give an eights and nines to in this category I can see myself playing in ten years. This maybe now and again, but it's not gonna be like I want to pull this out once a month at least, kind of thing. And I don't think it's where some of those all-timers for me set.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, and and even when we've had games that are much more that they have got limited shelf space because maybe you're playing a series of scenarios, etc. I haven't perhaps maybe same s felt that same urge to constantly grab it off the shelf in the same way. Yeah, you know. Yes, it's not it's lacking that, I think, a little bit.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and I think it's just a criticism, particularly. No, I don't think so. It's uh you know, you get that classic no two games are alike.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:In this, I feel like games will start to feel uh even now, after six plays, games have started to feel quite similar. Not not samey and not dull, but quite similar in their flow and the the way they go. And yeah, I think it's when you break out of that that I start coming back for more and more and more. And I just I don't really see that with this. Yeah. But above average.
SPEAKER_03:Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01:Okay.
SPEAKER_03:Okay, so our final category under our general rating scale is fun. Did you have any fun playing it?
SPEAKER_01:I did indeed.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. No, it is a very it is a really good game. It's a really good game. It is fun to play, and I enjoy playing it. I like the theme. Uh I'm confused still as to why volcanoes are a resource. Do you reply to that? Volcanes are resources. Um what we need is wood and lava. We need lava. Um, sure.
SPEAKER_03:It's for the sacrifices. I don't think they were sacrificing people whether they're the greens.
SPEAKER_02:I think the classics, alright. I said a useful greens like psychology.
SPEAKER_01:Uh-huh, sure. Um, but no, it it's it is too shape for any psychologists out there. So um no, it it it is a really fun experience. I think the mechanic about the orientation and the spatial puzzle is so cool. Like, I haven't seen that before. Um, that is a first, I'm sure it exists elsewhere out there, but I haven't personally seen it before. And it's a really unique twist on the tar lane um the on the on the tar lane mechanism. Like, I really like it. It can screw you over sometimes because you can end up with a cluster of maps, as I did on our last game, which were like I because you often get maps like, oh, I can't play these now, but I can see I I can see a route, I can see how I can make. The the map do what I need so I can place it. I had a whole bunch the last time we played that were just like, yeah, this isn't this is never gonna work ever. Unless I start building off the bottom of the table. Um that is a rarity, and the game does have mechanisms to mitigate that, the whole consulting the oracle thing and being able to get more maps. But I spent two turns drawing two actions and a lot of money drawing maps, and I ended up blank. So you get it can that that mechanism can screw you over sometimes. There is and I'll probably talk about this more under tabletop, but there is interactivity there. And I feel like the interactivity increases the more you play it, but I'm gonna save that for the the the next category. And yeah, it's just it it's just a a nice time.
SPEAKER_03:It's it's um it is, and it's quite gentle, I think, whilst providing a huge amount of strategic depth. Yeah, and we'll again we'll we'll talk about competitiveness as well, but it it is quite gentle.
SPEAKER_01:I would say it's brain burning without being intense.
SPEAKER_03:Yes, and we didn't talk about this under AP, and obviously we know back to it. I kind of struggle with that. And I've got better, I have got a lot better. Yeah, I've got a lot better. But this doesn't challenge me in the same way, and maybe it's just because I'm better at toilet and games, but I don't find it as stressful and as thinky because I think of the element of random and the fact that your goal cards or victory cards or whatever you want to call them, you pick them up as you go along, so you're just making the best decision you have. And I think because of that, it mitigates some of that AP.
SPEAKER_01:I can see some people really struggling with a spatial element of it. I think it's worth flagging up that you're I struggle with that to begin with. Well, to begin with, but it's worth flagging up that you are very good at this. Or I'm very, very bad at this.
SPEAKER_03:I'm just better at most things than you.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I know. But I think it's worth mentioning that you it it it slots with your brain. I've noticed you like you you you make some really quite clever tactical decisions on this, and they seem to come quite naturally and quite fast to you. I think there might be other people that would struggle. I don't struggle with the spatial thing, but I think there would be people that really struggle with that spatial element.
SPEAKER_03:I think what makes it quite challenging is the idea that um you some islands will be only accessible through portage, you know, and that's when that starts to get really brain burning for me. Because you start to have to calculate just how far you can move in one turn with the resources you have. Um it's also worth saying that when you're docked in a port in an island, you can't have two boats docked in a port, you can travel through it. That also has an impact as well, because that's the problem.
SPEAKER_01:Well that comes into the intactity that I start seeing, I start using a little bit more, but I'll go on to that in the next thing. Um but yeah, I mean in general, this is a this is a damn good time. Like I enjoy playing this. I enjoy the puzzle it presents. Um, I enjoy what it does to my brain. Um and you do feel that depth and you feel like you are making tactical choices as not just la la, I'm just chucking things in the the the board and seeing what happens. You have to be quite honored as such. And I do enjoy the resource management aspect of it.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And I enjoy that more the more we played.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, do you?
SPEAKER_01:I like it. I think it's very, very finely tuned and finely balanced.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I think I enjoy placing my resources a lot more to be difficult. Um, you like my head ice cream with you, and I've enjoyed that more as the game has gone on.
SPEAKER_01:Whereas I quite like the maxing of reasons like how much can I get in the turn by placing this here and then going to go, I really like I like that little puzzle. It's almost that little series of interconnector puzzles which I really enjoy. So, yeah, I I I rate this. I've I've given it a seven.
SPEAKER_03:Yep, so I gave it a six.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, alright.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. Um I think why didn't I rate I I do, I enjoy it and I have a really, really good time, and I think it's a great game. I just don't know that it's there for me.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, so above average for you. Yeah, above average. Very good for me. Okay, alright. So as ever, let's total this up and get an average. So that gives us a general score of exactly seven, which I think fits quite quite well with the conversation that we've had. I'm really happy with this getting a seven generally. Okay. So on to our two-player ratings, and as this is a two-player only game, obviously we won't be looking at scalability.
SPEAKER_03:You've stolen my bit.
SPEAKER_01:Have I? Okay. I mean you can repeat it if you like.
SPEAKER_03:That's all right. Good, you said it.
SPEAKER_01:All right, do you want to kick us off with a score?
SPEAKER_03:So, first up, we have table talk. So things like getting to know you.
SPEAKER_01:And increasingly, I think, in this category, I tend to look at interactivity on the board.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I think that's fair. Um, so you've already kind of touched on this. I don't think it is massively interactive. I think it's very much about how you choose to play it and how you choose to use that space. Yeah. Um and uh I think my approach tends to vary in the game, depending on how I feel about the game, about how I scored it. So if I'm aware that sounds wild to probably score another night, but I just I don't know there is a huge amount of space for inter interactivity.
SPEAKER_01:I think there is some. Yep. I think more so than some. I mean, uh compared with Carcassonne things like that. I think there's more so than that. I think there is the capacity there to not necessarily screw over your opponent. I don't think it's it's not that kind of game, but there is there is capacity to make things more difficult for them. And you can do that in a few different ways. You could do that by keeping an eye on the resources and putting things out of reach, perhaps, or choosing to put down things that you know are not going to help them. Um there's also the ability, if the board allows it, to block.
SPEAKER_03:But is this not under competitiveness rather than?
SPEAKER_01:No, I think it becomes under interactivity in the in the sense because you you are directly interacting with your opponent. And I think that there's always a slightly scale here between, you know, solos that you play together, you know, which you tend to find quite a lot of these days, or that that do have table talk, or something perhaps that doesn't force much discussion between you, but you actually are interacting in a in a you know you're engaging with each other in another way, which I think this category for me is more so becoming about. And I think I think there's a decent amount in this. I don't think it's going to set the world on fire in that regard, but I think it is there. I think it's worth flagging out.
SPEAKER_03:Um again, I imagine it would be a very different experience if you had somebody with a lot of AP who really struggled with it. I think then it could become very, very dry and quite difficult.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, it could be quite a dull affair for the other the other person. Um because as long as somebody's actually doing things, it it's also because of the the the visual tactility of it all, it's it's one of those things where you are very invested in your opponent's turn and you know everything's sort of moving around about and you you you do stay engaged in the game and what they're doing.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, and I think actually that's an interesting point that I hadn't really previously considered. There are a lot of games where I don't necessarily pay attention to what it's it is that you're doing on your board or potentially how you're you're playing your turns. Whereas actually, if I do uh miss something, I'm like, oh no, what was it that you did? Where did you lay that? Where did you place that? And how you get in there, and can we count these three?
SPEAKER_01:So you have to stay very engaged in what your opponent is doing.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. Um and because of the way I think the turns are structured and the actions you can take, you might spend a lot of time considering where you're gonna place your tile because you draw the tile at the end of your turn, so you have the entire opponent's turn to work out where you're gonna place it and sit consult with your maps and stuff. It means that your thinking can be done, I think, sort of casually while the other person's taking their turn.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah, it can, yeah, absolutely. So yeah, I I I think it's I think it's decent. I think it's average. So I've given it a five.
SPEAKER_03:Okay, so I gave it a four.
SPEAKER_01:Okay. Just slightly below average, right? Slightly below average. Alright, fine.
SPEAKER_03:Alright, so let's come on to competitiveness then. Um so I was surprised at how competitive I found this. And again, it took me a little bit by surprise. And again, maybe that's because of the strategic depth that came in that came as the game went on.
SPEAKER_01:And I think visuals, when you see this kind of game, you're expecting something. I don't think this is what you were expecting necessarily. I think you you found a much meatier thing beneath it than you were perhaps expecting.
SPEAKER_03:I'm perhaps pleasantly surprised by it. I think what always really surprises me is just how close our games are.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, they're usually with a fit couple of points most of the time.
SPEAKER_03:And that really surprises me, even though I feel like I am storming into victory.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:And actually I'm not. Um, and I think it's that element of I again, I've complained about this in other games. So I'm gonna look at Terra Mystica and say that because I don't really know how you're scoring, it becomes about you know optimizing my play.
SPEAKER_01:Sure.
SPEAKER_03:I don't find it and I don't feel it with this.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, you actually do see how you want to how I'm scoring, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Um, and there is always that race for placing temples, and we're usually within one turn of placing temples.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, it's very rare that somebody stretches two into the lead, it's usually quite a back and forth. Um I think the last game we played was actually the first one where you stretch two in the lead. However, it still ends up being within a point. And I think this difference, uh I I think the difference that I've noticed in quite a lot of our games is I think I'm a little bit better at the goal scoring cards, but you're much better at the actual core gameplay. So we end up being very close because you you concentrate on getting your temples out in really good places, and I'm more trying to concentrate about what my goal cards are, and we end up somewhere very, very close at the end.
SPEAKER_03:I also think you tend to go for higher scoring maps than me. Yeah. I would rather guarantee getting them out for cheaper than take a risk and take a punch.
SPEAKER_01:I've flip-flop back and forth on that.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:I still can't quite figure out what what my optimal strategy with that is. I have flip-flopped on that one.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:There's some way I've tried to rush it down, there's some way I've gone for really high value ones. But I think both are I think the game's well constructed enough that both are viable.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, and that's what's really.
SPEAKER_01:I haven't found a completely unviable roots route to victory with this.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Um, everything seems viable, you just need to do it right.
SPEAKER_03:And that's what I mean about it being so well balanced. I think it's true. So even when you didn't get all your temples out, we were still within a point of each other or a couple of points.
SPEAKER_01:And it absolutely is the kind of game that if they hadn't got that right, you would solve it.
SPEAKER_03:Yep.
SPEAKER_01:Whereas I don't think uh maybe after 20 plays you will solve this in inverted commas, but they they've done uh you can't you can't move there's not one obvious route through this, which it is is great and should be lauded.
SPEAKER_03:And I think that there is again a lot of tactical depth. So you are fighting not only over resources, but you're also fighting over islands because uh very quickly you can build maps.
SPEAKER_01:We didn't mention this actually. Sorry to interrupt, but it's worth mentioning here that you cannot build an uh you cannot excavate a temple on an island that already has one excavated.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:So if you excavate a temple and then start making a massive island out of it, you actually take up a huge amount of you did this last time, you take up a huge amount of real estate, you actually really screw your opponent over in terms of them being able to find places to put things.
SPEAKER_03:However, what's also really interesting is a bit like Carcassonne. If you start building and you place a temple on another island and it subsequently becomes joined up, that's legit.
SPEAKER_01:That's fine, but unlike Carcassonne, you don't steal. Yeah, you can't steal. That's fine.
SPEAKER_03:And I think that also creates a huge amount of depth because again, you can then create islands that nobody can access, which we've done before, or I've done before, specifically because I know that I'm knocking you out of options. And it's all these little things that add to that depth that makes it really competitive.
SPEAKER_01:It does, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Without it being really particularly nail-biting.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah. It's competitive. Well, that's what I've said earlier, it's not intense, it's not an intense experience, but it is very, very competitive.
SPEAKER_03:Well, I think that's why this could be a really, really ideal game for a lot of couples where particularly one person finds that competitive intensity too much.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Um, but they still want that competitive experience.
SPEAKER_00:So really fit those weeks well.
SPEAKER_01:It's gentle and it's and it's nice, but you've still got that real element of Yeah, it's not something like a Basilica, which is really like screw you cutthroat kind of thing. There's there's very little cutthroats to it. Yeah. But that does mean it's less competitive competitive. Yeah. And you really do feel like you are matching wits with your opponent when you're playing him. Yeah. So yeah, I think it did really I think it does really, really well in this. Um I gave it a seven.
SPEAKER_03:I also gave it a seven.
SPEAKER_01:Cool, brilliant. Um, obviously, because it's two player only, we don't talk about scalability. I I do wonder why it is a two-player only experience, because I think it would have been really easy to make this two to four. I assume it's something to do with balance and the spatial puzzle and having four people around the table, because then you probably have you'd have to set four corners of the compass.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And maybe they just thought that was a bit too much. But I have always I have asked the question like, why is this only for two players?
SPEAKER_03:You'd need more victory cards as well, and some victory cards are easier to do than others, and I think if you got landed with a bunch of the hard ones, that would become really problematic. Yeah, and it would really lock you out of locked victory points.
SPEAKER_01:Um it's an interesting concept that I think taken forward into uh and meddled with to become a three or four player experience. I don't know if anybody's sort of done that, but this kind of concept with more people might be a really good cool thing. Um yeah, it's one of those, it's the first two-player only game I played where I'm kind of like, why is this two-player only?
SPEAKER_03:I don't think it's missing anything though, for more players.
SPEAKER_01:No, it's not it's not missing anything. It's just it's this is not about scoring. It's just uh this is uh a point of curiosity more than anything. I'd love to under I'd love to have a chat with the designer just to understand why they made that, why they sort of put that barrier like it has to be two players down there and why they didn't go for more. It's just quite unusual to see in the the gaming space. Um but yeah, answers on a postcard.
SPEAKER_03:Okay, so let's tiny those up.
SPEAKER_01:So that gives us an overall two-player rating of a six, which I think that's just a symptom of our scoring criteria, really. And this is this is much better than a six as a two-player experience for my money.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:This is uh this is a good, this is a solid seven for me.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I think it's a tabletalk thing, isn't it? So again, it's about whether that's what you want in this kind of game or not.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Um, but I think there is something there about this being a highly competitive game, without that cutthroat thing that really makes us stand out.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and I think we'll really hit the sweet spot for certain people.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Um, so if you like what you hear, yeah, unreservedly recommend this and a bit of a hidden gem, I think. Yeah. Because I don't see people talk about this very often.
SPEAKER_03:No, and I I knew nothing about it.
SPEAKER_01:I bought it completely on a whim.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, we we we picked it up at a ball game convention to it really has surprised me. Again, you've gone in with a low bar and it surprised us.
SPEAKER_01:You're often positively surprised, as you are in this case. But yeah, highly recommend. Um, I'm very glad we we picked it up and we we played it. So I hope everybody enjoyed that. As always, thank you for joining us. And until next time, be good to each other, have fun, play lots of ball games.
