Board With Each Other
A podcast that looks at Board Games / Tabletop Gaming through the lens of playing as a couple or with a regular gaming partner. Hosted by Al & Hannah, We review a game each episode.
Board With Each Other
Episode 31 - The Witcher: Old World: Poker Face
Thanks for joining us as we head back to IP land and assess The Witcher: Old World.
Can Hannah focus enough on it to win when there's so much SIDE CONTENT? Is there Gwent? What expansion features the sex cards? And most importantly is it functional as a 2 player experience?
All these questions answered - and more, within. We hope you enjoy!
Hello everybody and welcome to another episode of Board with Each other, the board gaming podcast that reviews board games and asks the question how well does this play as two players? Whether it be with your significant other, your BFF, or that bard that offers to toss you a coin in exchange for a tail. I'm L. Simpson and I'm joined as ever by my lovely wife and player two, Hannah Kelly.
SPEAKER_01:Hi guys.
SPEAKER_00:And today we are delving into the Witcher, the Old World. Or is it The Witcher Old World? There's no second there. The Witcher Old World at its core is a hybrid between a deck builder and a miniatures slash dudes on a map, move around the board crawler, but not in a traditional dungeon crawler way. So a little bit difficult to survise in one sort of sentence. In The Witcher, you take control of the a titular Witcher from one of the various Witcher schools, and you have to travel the lands, uh getting involved in hygiene some quests, building up your character, and fighting monsters, or each other. And in doing so, you gain trophies, whether those are monster trophies, skill trophies, or witcher trophies. And if you accumulate a total of four of these trophies, I think it's four, no, five. Five of these trophies, first person to do that is the winner. So it's essentially a race. How gameplay works, I won't go into a huge amount of detail because there's an awful lot to it. But on your turn, you move around the map. Depending on where you move to, you can take actions dependent on the space that you're at. So all of the locations have sort of different effects and actions. In doing so, to move, you need to discard cards. All cards have terrain types on them that allow you to move to certain different types of terrain. Once you've finished moving, you can then either have an encounter in either the city or the wilds around where you are. That encounter will give you options that you must take and could send you on quests, could give you rewards, something bad may happen, etc. etc. Or instead you can fight. If you are in the same space as a monster or another witcher, you begin combat. When you begin combat, you use your deck to basically form what's called your life pool. And from that, depending on where your skills are, you draw cards and you use a card in your hand to combo together to do various things, i.e., do damage, raise your defense up, um, draw more cards for your deck, etc. The monster has a deck of its own and a life pool and a special ability, which it will then use to fight back against you. If you win the fight, fantastic, you get some gold, you win the trophy. If you lose the fight, you basically don't lose an awful lot. You just uh get one card less to draw in the next phase. The final phase, you draw three up back up to three cards.
SPEAKER_01:Also you can meditate.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, you can meditate. If your skills have reached a level five in any of them, you can meditate to gain the trophy card for that skill. Uh what's important with the trophy cards for skills, I have is you cannot use that to win the game. You can use it to go up on the score track, the trophy track, but it cannot be your final. That last one has to be a last one has to be a monster or whichever. Um in the final phase, you use the cards in your hand to purchase uh another card from the marketplace. They have a cost ranging from zero to two. Uh zero cards you could just take immediately into your hand. Otherwise, you must discard that number of cards to gain cards. The marketplace also has a uh uh the cost modifiers on it, so the card right at the end that's been left right at the end or left the longest gets minus one to its cost. The ones that have just come out right at the top, the the first two have plus two to their cost. So obviously it stops people just immediately grabbing twos as they come out and makes it very, very expensive to do. There are a whole load of other mechanics that go with it, but uh I think some of the highlights, uh what one of the mechanics is poker dice.
SPEAKER_02:Yep.
SPEAKER_00:So at certain locations you can play poker dice either against the bank or against another witcher, in which case you you you play a hand of poker dice, which uh luckily comes with reference cards, you know what the hands are worth, etc. And you you can use that to gain money. It seems like quite a minor side quest-y type thing when you first start playing, but it's actually quite a pivotal part of the game because it's one of the main sources of income.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and currency is valuable and is important in this.
SPEAKER_00:And runs out very quickly.
SPEAKER_01:And it runs out very quickly. So you use your currency to upgrade some of your skills.
SPEAKER_00:At Witcher Schools, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:At Witcher Schools, and your main attributes, defence, combat, alchemy, and your special abilities.
SPEAKER_00:Each Witcher has a different special ability.
SPEAKER_01:That's linked to your school.
SPEAKER_00:Which there are five, by the way, there are five different characters in the base game.
SPEAKER_01:And what else do you then use currency for? That's about it, really.
SPEAKER_00:Uh yeah, that is about it. Currency can come up as part of your encounters where you may have the opportunity to spend some gold to gain something. Um, but that is pretty much.
SPEAKER_01:But it comes quite in in um integral to the game because otherwise you're not able to level up.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it's quite a harsh economy.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. You you need money. And getting it is not easy.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:But that's basically it in a nutshell. I don't think I want to go any much too further into rules minutiae because it's it you get very, very bogged down and but that that's basically how the game plays.
SPEAKER_01:I suppose it's probably worth mentioning the idea of combos because that's quite novel, I think, to this game. I've not seen it before.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_01:You're when you fight your monster or when you fight your um um your another witcher, you will create what is your life pool, which is essentially all your cards and all your deck shuffled all together. Yeah, you then draw from those. And in order to attack, you talks about how you have to play combos. So those combos, all those cards will have a strip down one side, which is a particular colour, yeah, and then it will have a little tab to the sides. Or multiple tabs. Or multiple tabs. And then if you played a card um of the same colour as one of those tabs, that then becomes a combo.
SPEAKER_00:And you can continue doing that at infinitum. Yeah, as long as you have it.
SPEAKER_01:Until your deck runs out, basically. So it's a really tasty way of being able to do huge amounts of damage, and that's when the deck building element really comes into play.
SPEAKER_00:Absolutely. Yeah. Playtime, I would say I'm gonna say two hours.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I would say two hours.
SPEAKER_00:It is not a quick game, and that's for two players. I imagine you have three or four, you're looking at two and a half, three hours easy. Um, obviously it depends how the games go, but I don't think we've ever had a game under an hour and a half with the two of us. No.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, so yeah, no.
SPEAKER_00:This is this is quite a weighty beast, I have to say. Yeah, it did, it's got a long run time. So um obviously I've I've been a fan of The Witcher for a very, very long time. Uh janky Witcher 1 OG here. Back in the days of Eastern European janky video games and sex cards, if anybody remembers that.
SPEAKER_01:There are no sex cards in this game.
SPEAKER_00:Unfortunately, but very disappointed. There's no kick there's no kickstart expansion for them either.
SPEAKER_01:No, there's no there's no sexy juniper either, is there, I don't think. No. Witches.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, there there's yeah, not not necessarily. There's no sexy juniper, sorry guys. Before Yennefer's time. I think it's based. I might be wrong there. Um, but yeah, uh we're both I feel it's fair to say we're both quite big fans of the universe. You were a huge Witcher 3 fan when it came out, like we pumped a lot of hours into that.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Um and Witcher 1 moment. You were there for Witcher 1.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And while we're at UK Games Expo this year, we we saw this and we kind of had to. We're like, oh come on, let's let's give it a go. Um so yeah, that's why why it came into our possession.
SPEAKER_01:And I guess probably the first board game we've played that's based off well, it's not based off a video game at all. We're gonna wipe that from the record. Really embarrassing.
SPEAKER_00:Well, is it it's really embarrassing? It's based off the the universe, but I I can't imagine it would exist without the video games, to be honest. Yeah, that's true. Like the the Witcher books were reasonably popular, but as the games that sort of exploded their popularity, and then obviously the Netflix series, etc. etc. So yeah, you can kind of say that a little bit. Anything else you want to add?
SPEAKER_01:No, let's get cracking with the score in there.
SPEAKER_00:Alright, let's do it.
SPEAKER_01:Okay. So first up under our general rating scale, we have components. So things like the board space setup, that sort of thing.
SPEAKER_00:And you know, components.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, components. I mean, so it's already a win for you because it comes with miniatures.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I mean, it's a win. I mean the miniatures are nice. Not blow blow my mind nice. It's not nemesis, but uh they're they're they're they're decent.
SPEAKER_01:Um and it also comes with a really nice, sexy set of poker dice.
SPEAKER_00:Yes. They're very funky, lovely. We're very fond of poker dice. I mean, just in general, it's it's a high quality package. Um the finish on everything is really nice, everything feels good quality. The player boards are like sort of scythe level of you know, the 3D where you have things embedded in them.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:The artwork is fantastic, yeah, really good.
SPEAKER_01:Really, I think brings home and reminds you of the video games as well.
SPEAKER_00:Um and it's like luminous writtenness has got to they haven't lost that at all.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and you've got a variety of decks, but each are quite unique um and they look quite different. Um, certainly your your the deck that you build, your combat cards, I think are absolutely fab. They're really lovely to look at.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I don't know if pretty is the right word is the nature of the artwork, but it's it's definitely just wrapping the style. Like if you've played the Rich 3, you know what you're sort of in for.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. And all your monsters, um, so all your monster cards, um, again, you've got artwork kind of pretty much quib strength in the game, really, in terms of what your monsters look like. Um there are no monster um miniatures.
SPEAKER_00:You can get them, but yeah, again, it was part of sort of the Kickstarter, the Kickstarter package, as such. Um, it would be much cooler with monster miniatures, but obviously it's going to drive the price point up significantly significantly because there are lots. Yeah, there are a huge variety of them. And again, storage, you need boxes to keep them all in.
SPEAKER_01:In terms then of space, I would say that it's definitely a table hob. Yes. The actual player board itself is quite huge. It's massive, yeah. And it's absolutely massive because you've also got space on there for all your variety of decks and various different cards. And it also takes quite a while, I think, to set up.
SPEAKER_00:I don't think setup is that bad, personally. I think no, for a game of this complexity, I think once you know what you're doing, the first time is incredibly intimidating and will take you about half an hour.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:But after that, I think we've got it down. As always, we have our own little roles that we have and things that we do, but I think we've got it down to about 10 minutes now.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. So I still think it's quite it it it takes a while.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it takes a while, but any game with this complexity, with this many moving apart, is going to take that length of time. I don't think there's anything onerous in there. I don't think there's anything that's really faffy or annoying to do.
SPEAKER_02:No.
SPEAKER_00:My one very minor quibble that I have is the miniatures are actually quite difficult to match up with what which are they're meant to be. Yeah. It's one of those games I think would benefit from a little photograph of the miniature on the player board. I it's such a minor thing, but it's kind of like it'd be games like, are we using the right measure? Ah, does it matter? To me, yeah, kinda. Um but yeah, or or actually putting their colours on the base from the start.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, so I mean they all have little bases that then the the colours then correspond with which which school you are, but just being able to match up the base to the right miniature that's the issue.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, yeah. They've got little sort of rings that's uh quite common on that shasm as well. You know, you'd say you once you know what colour you are, that's fine, but it's like who is this again? Squinting. I imagine it'd be much easier if they were painted, but yeah, it's all very minor quibble. Any any criticisms that you would?
SPEAKER_01:Um no, not really. I just think there's what's not to what's not to love. Um it's it's a really well-packaged game, I think.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I think it's very, very good. I've given an eight as a result.
SPEAKER_01:Yep, I gave it a solid eight as well.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, okay, all right.
SPEAKER_01:So then moving on to complexity. Um, so this is as always not about how complex a game is or isn't, but how well it serves the gameplay. And what I'll start off by saying is there are a lot of moving parts to this game.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, there are.
SPEAKER_01:So it is not just a case of go and hunt a monster and kill said monster. You have to you can go on the trail of the monster, yeah. Um, where you can make it a little bit easier to then fight said monster. You also have opportunities to go and get side quests because obviously everybody needs a side quest.
SPEAKER_02:Everybody needs a side quest.
SPEAKER_01:Um, so you've got lots of side quests that you can do or not do, it's entirely up to you whether you do them or not.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Um, you've also got your poker dice going on. So there are so many different facets.
SPEAKER_00:Interlocking systems.
SPEAKER_01:Interlocking systems. When you first pick it up, it does feel very overwhelming.
SPEAKER_00:It can do, yes.
SPEAKER_01:And that rule book I do think is quite weighty.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it's quite weighty, but it is well written. It is a good rule book, really good. And it has got a whole salad of different things and mechanics going on in it. There's a lot of moving parts, but you know what? They pull it off.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:There isn't anything, to my mind, that feels extraneous. There's nothing that feels unnecessary. I mean, necessary is a weird way of looking at it, but when you're you know, sometimes when you play these games with a lot of interlocking parts, you're like, oh, I can kind of do without that, but like what's that doing there? There's no jank, it's very well thought out in its systems.
SPEAKER_01:And I think what's so lovely is that it's up to you whether you do the side quests or not. Um and you can completely leave that for dead. And I think you've also got multiple different paths to victory as well, and maybe we'll come onto this later. I think because of that, being able I think that could make it for a really difficult gameplay experience, but actually you're right, it doesn't. No, it all flows really nice and neatly, and I think the way your cards, you'll draw like a city card, for example, and the way that leads you then onto a quest, etc., has all been really well thought out.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Um, and you you tend to keep those quest cards in front of you so you can see them all at all times, and it just it it makes it for a really it's it's a really lovely flow.
SPEAKER_00:It is, yeah, it all flows really, really nicely together. And I will come back to the combat in fun, but this combat system is a absolute banger. It's really unique, and I really, really enjoy it. And it's not, again, onerous in terms of its rules, but there's enough there that it's weighty.
SPEAKER_01:So, what I would probably say is that it's not the rules themselves that make it weighty, it is the the interlocking parts that make it weight.
SPEAKER_00:All the parts in in conjunction.
SPEAKER_01:Well, I certainly think when we first picked it up, we started playing it, but then we came back to sections of rules later when we got there to experience and kind of learn to play.
SPEAKER_00:And we made some mistakes. A game of this complexity you're always going to. So, you know, we made a few mistakes, but we we quite quite quickly realized what those mistakes were because things didn't feel right. And I think that's kind of a testament to a well-designed game that you can pick up on mistakes if something feels off. Yeah, like this shouldn't be this easy or unbalanced, and then you go, ah, we've made a mistake, and you go back to us, actually, no, we got this wrong, this should we should do this this way. I played a lot of games with with this many interlocking parts before. This is not unique, but this one really pulls it off in a in a manner of smoothness and excellence of design that is quite rare, in my opinion. And I I I struggle to fault it. I'd give it a nine for this.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. So I gave it an eight. Okay. Um, again, I think perhaps I rate it down a little bit because it is quite weighty, and I think that you can get a little bit lost in your path to victory, which we'll come back to perhaps maybe later, maybe that's rather down gathered. But yeah, I still think it's an absolute banger of a game and game experience.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. And I think if I'm I I like if I'm playing my RPG when I'm pretending to be a which I want I want complexity, I don't want it to be too simple. I want I want that I need that meat on the bones for me, so it really works. If you know what you're getting into, you're you're playing a quite complex two-hour experience, yeah. It it it is that, you know, and if you know what you're getting into, then I I I have no uh qualms about giving it a line.
SPEAKER_01:Okay. Next up, then we have shelf life, including things like value for money and replayability. So as always, watch the price point.
SPEAKER_00:So not as simple as an answer as it usually is, because there are different versions of this around. It was a Kickstarter, and the different levels of pledge that you got in that, but also the availability of different aspects of that. Um, the core game, the version that we have with the non-miniature monsters, so you've got Witcher of Miniatures, but no miniatures of the monsters, runs between 60 and 70. If you want the monster miniatures, you're looking at about 130 to 140.
SPEAKER_01:Actually, do you know what? I don't think that's that bad. The number of miniatures that you'd have to have. As soon as miniatures get involved.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, as soon as miniatures get involved, that's the price goes up.
SPEAKER_01:But no, we're not getting the monsters.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I I think that's a reasonable price point for the deluxe version with all the the miniatures. There are umpteen other bits and pieces that you can get. The expansion, the expansions run about 40 each, so expansions are quite expensive, but again, most of them come with miniatures. So, you know, it's that's your price to play, basically.
SPEAKER_01:I mean, this isn't an entry-level board game. You you you're not gonna pick this up if you aren't already into board games, and I think because of a the quality of the play experience and and how good it is, and and um also the complexity of it, I I think that's a really good price point, actually.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I think again with what comes to the box, the game of miniatures, I think 1670 is reasonable.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Um, I have no issues with that. The production quality is good, they haven't cheaped out on it. If you're getting miniatures in your game, you're gonna you're gonna have to pay for them. So, you know, I I don't I don't have an issue with the price point.
SPEAKER_01:Um then in terms of replayability, so I think this is quickly ramped up to the top of my playlist at the moment. I absolutely love it, and I will always want to play it. But there is a question for me about replayability longer term, and I think probably we're gonna pick up on some of this in later categories.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Um so I yeah.
SPEAKER_00:I mean, I I I think I talk about it now. I I too really, really enjoy this. I have a feeling that by about game 10 to 15 I'm going to start to be bouncing against the walls.
SPEAKER_02:Yes.
SPEAKER_00:And what that means is one of two things. I'm either gonna go, ooh, I want expansions, let's go get expansions, or I'm gonna be like, I'm done with this. I might go, let's go get some expansions, get expansions, and then go, oh god, I'm still done with this. I don't know, because I don't really I don't know what the expansions are involved in. But it reminds me a little bit of Arkham Horror second edition, where we had the base game of Arkham Horror for quite a long time, and we did start to bounce against the walls a little bit. I was kind of getting towards done with it. Got some expansions, and then it just became a forever game.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:So I've always got that in the back of my mind. And does this have the propensity to do that? I'm not sure. I'm on the fence.
SPEAKER_01:I think there are a couple of issues that I have with it that I think would need to be resolved in order for that uh to really sing for me. And I think that's where I would bounce again, bounce with the walls, or just feel a little bit constrained, constrained by a game that's so freeform and so open that actually that becomes almost a bit of a barrier at some point.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. So I found this one really hard to score. I'm finding it hard to predict. Do I still want to play it now? Yes, I do. Will I still see that I can see a hundred I can see an horizon? I can see an horizon where I'm gonna be like, I am done, not done with the core game, but I'm gonna need either need something else that either fixes some of the issues that I have with it, we'll get on to that in a minute, or widens it to a point that I am continuously surprised by the variety and I'm constantly interested, which I think is where Arkham Horror Second Edition went. Yeah, there was enough endless variety and replayability that 50-60 games I still want to go and play it. Yeah, would I be able to get that experience from this? I don't know. I haven't delved that deeply into it. But in the core box, my estimation is ten to fifteen. I'm gonna be like, mm, I'm done now.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:That's just my my guess. And because of that, because I don't see it without expanding it as a forever game, I've given it a seven.
SPEAKER_01:I also gave it a seven again for those reasons. Again, I think i there are a couple of things that we could probably do to to I also think whether that would change when we come to our two-player rating scale as well and scalability and well, I think a lot of what we're going to come on to talk about is one of the reasons why it's Ian Horizon with us. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:So yeah, I mean, shall we shall we crack on to the real meaning?
SPEAKER_01:So Is it any fun? Is it any fun? Fuck yeah. So all the things I've just said, opinion all of that, absolutely. I think the first time we played it and we finished it, and it it it was quite a long game. I think we were like three and a bit hours. I was like, I want to play again. I want to play again.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And that feeling has never really left me. So despite everything I've just said, that feeling has never really left me. I absolutely love playing this game. I have loads of fun. And there are so many reasons why. I think partly it's very narrative-driven.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:So you get to inhabit that character. It's so thematic, so it feels like you are, you know, an actual witcher. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:I mean, aside from Fast and the Furious, I don't think I've seen anything made on the theme that's hard. Um, no, that it is absolutely dripping with theme, and the theme is spot on. I think not looking at the box now, CD Project Red, who produced the g the games, for those that don't know, was involved in the creation of this.
SPEAKER_01:So you can tell. Yeah, you can tell. You absolutely can tell. So even the idea of so you have potions, for example, and they're all potions from the video game that do like similar things. You know, you get to meditate, which again, you know, harking back to the game. Um, the idea of being able to do side quests, the idea of that constant fight between monster, you know, and human, about what's going on politically as well, although some of the political stuff hasn't really gone into it, but you see that those didactic choices.
SPEAKER_00:It's based in a different era, yes. Um, but also there's this really fine balancing act that you see in The Witcher between this horrible, horrible, gritty world and these stabs of humour. And they really come out in some of the the the cards. Like you'll get some things that are actually genuinely really funny.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Um in in in amongst all the grime and grittiness and all the rest of it.
SPEAKER_01:And it's really finding a horse on a house. On a roof. On a roof of advance.
SPEAKER_00:Anybody who has played the game will get that reference. And there are lovely nuggets and Easter eggs in there for fans of the games, and I'm sure the books. Um so it's it's there's a lot of love for the source material that really comes through.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, that's a really wild phrasing.
SPEAKER_00:That love and enthusiasm bleeds through into the fun that you have with it if you are into that sort of world. It'd be interesting to see how somebody who'd never encountered the universe plays with this. But in terms of nailing an IP that for for us anyway, we're familiar with and we love, it absolutely nails it 100%. We're gonna talk about the really good stuff to start with. Yeah. The combat is one of the best combat systems I have ever encountered. It is utterly Moorish, it is really addictive, and it is super satisfying. Um, I have no notes for the combat. Like, I I love it. I absolutely love the combat system. That idea of playing combos, cars you deck build so you can play those combos, the very swinging nature of what the monster does back to you, the concept of being able to build up your defence within the the combat, the usage of decks as your health bar, I think is excellent, and how the various mechanics play with that health bar of yeah, it's just so well done.
SPEAKER_01:And real, really well balanced. I think that's the thing that always surprises me for a game, again with so many interloping parts and so many different components to it, that it just feels really well balanced.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and fights usually, unless you're fighting a level one monster way too late, they feel challenging.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Yeah. Um, there's something also quite cool about combat, now you're mentioning it, is that um when you you as the the witcher form your life pool, but then also one of your opponents will take the the the monster's life pool. Um, and your opponent you have two halves to that card. You have a charge and a bite, and that tells you what the the card does. So your opponent gets to pick first time, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And obviously, having seen the card, but then second time you pick other players pick and things you you pick or players if you play with more get to get to pick.
SPEAKER_01:And I think that's just a really lovely little touch.
SPEAKER_00:It's just cool, yeah. You know, it's just really cool. You know the concept of the the way they they work with quests, the way the quests work, a very sort of go-to-a location kind of specific, but then things will happen and choices will happen. Um, I think is one of the better versions of questing I've seen in the board game. Like it's really well done. Um, again, very, very little to to complain about that.
SPEAKER_01:You also have an event deck, and that event deck might be directly linked to a side quest that you might be doing, or it might also be equipment as well, which changes the game. Uh not changes the game, but obviously gives you another bonus, and you might get brass knuckles, you might get something like that. Um or you get a horse, for example, which allows travel, makes travel so much easier. Um, and again, it's those little gems, I think, that you know we're still finding.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, yeah, we will continue to find it.
SPEAKER_01:It's just a lovely little surprise.
SPEAKER_00:I think it was game uh game number five that we found out you could get a companion though, for like the take along and travel. It's just stuff like that. It's like, oh wow, okay.
SPEAKER_01:To come along with me on my travels.
SPEAKER_00:Um just like real life. Um, yeah, it there's so much that just gets so, so right in this in this genre. I like I say, right at the style, I don't know what you call it. Um Arkham Arkham Horror is the closest, I think, in terms of the type of game it is. I'm obviously not card though, competitor. But it has one glaring nagging problem. It is a race. To win the game, you have got to get more than the other player quicker. In terms of you've got to do more than the other player quicker, you've got to kill more monsters. The biggest issue I have underpinning that is the combat is so cool and fighting all these monsters is so good, and there are three levels of monsters. So you start the game, there's only ever three monsters on the board. You start the game with two level ones and a level two. If you kill a level one, it gets replaced with a level two. If you kill a level two, it gets replaced with a level three. But the game the the the way the game works, every game we have played bar one, we have ignored the existence of level three monsters. Because you don't have to engage with them at all. All you need to do is kill three monsters, meditate on one of your abilities, and fight another witcher and you won. So that's three out of the five. If you are playing this, and again we'll talk about this later in competitiveness, but if you are playing this to win, the optimal strategy is to just avoid a lot of the cool content.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. And that's my wherein lies the problem. I think in the last couple of games that we've played, I've been merrily wandering around, I've been playing a bit of dice poker, I've been building up my magnificent deck that I never get to play with because I'm too busy, you know, doing side quests. And next thing I know, you're on level four. Shit, I've got to give it a shit.
SPEAKER_00:I need to play the game.
SPEAKER_01:I'm just having so much fun engaging with the content that I then miss out on parts of it.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:You know, and it's just this push-pull.
SPEAKER_00:Between experience and wanting to win.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:But I think the not having to engage with that big slice of combat, the really challenging level three monsters is a blaring error.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, because we've also had games where actually I've done all the stuff and I've done my deck building, I've got and I've meditated, and I'm actually quite powerful, but be you and because of that, I think I'd be alright at the level threes, but you don't in you then win by the thing.
SPEAKER_00:And I still win because I'm just being more efficient with yeah, more efficient with the way I'm I'm doing things. And it's a real shame and it does hamper my fun because I'm like, why is this content there? I just I I don't I don't really get it. I think it's something that obviously has been fixed by an expansion. I know there's an expansion that introduced the concept of a boss monster that you have to fight to win the game, so you've got to build your way up to it and then fight it. Fine, cool, that sounds like a good idea. I think it's fairly easy to house rule, and I think with our conversations, we probably it's one of the games I think I am going to house rule where you have to your final trophy has to be a level three monster.
SPEAKER_01:I still don't think that will fix my issue, though.
SPEAKER_00:No, but your your issue is slightly different. You're just having such a wait of a time and you don't want the game to end, which should probably mean you need to give it a 10 for fun. It's slightly different. But I I I just I don't like the fact that you can avoid the high level content and and win. Like that for me, that's that screams something's not quite being play tested, right? Like there's a there's a there's it's a really niggling small thing, really niggling, but it's actually becoming more and more major in my head every time I play it. I'm like, why are these here? Yeah, what's the point?
SPEAKER_01:And then we both end up having a race for the level two one because we don't want to fight the level three one.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, we just end up killing a few of the level twos, but again, you end up with three level twos, and if you play it, you know, it's it's fine, you just you know, it's it's really easy to get there without it. You could theoretically win the game by fighting one monster.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. So you this is this is the other really cool thing about it, is that you don't apart from that final monster, you could do it by fighting witches, uh, you could do it by meditating, so you don't actually technically have to fight at all apart from that one last time.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I mean if your opponent was just completely sleeping, you could theoretically win the game by meditating on all four skills and then fighting him.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Or her. You know, you don't have to fight any monsters. The whole point of the game is fighting monsters. Like it just it doesn't feel right.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And I feel like it's something they're kind of missed in the design.
SPEAKER_01:But I also think that's a way for people like me who've gone waltzing off doing all these quests, rescuing these small children, has a way of being able to very quickly catch up the fact that I've not fought any monsters and I've got left training behind miserably because I'm having too much fun.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. But yeah, no, the level three thing is a is an issue for me, and I think it's something that needs house ruling.
SPEAKER_01:Okay.
SPEAKER_00:I honestly do. Um, which has tampered this down for me a little bit. In a normal world, this would have been uh an easy nine, but I have gone for an eight because it really bugs me. And still an incredibly high score, like this is a fantastically fun game. So I I can't I I toyed with a seven, I toyed with an eight, I toyed with a nine, I've settled on an eight.
SPEAKER_01:I got stuck between an eight and a nine. I think I'm gonna go with a nine.
SPEAKER_00:Go go with nine. Okay. So as always, we add all those together, we average them, and we get a solid, directly rounded eight.
SPEAKER_01:Excellent.
SPEAKER_00:Which I am happy with. Yeah, we have this this is an eight out of ten if I've ever met one.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Like it deserves that score.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, so moving on to our two-player rating scales or categories, and first up we have table talk. So straight off the bat, there is not a quiet moment in this game.
SPEAKER_00:No, no, there's all the interactivity ever in the world. Um, I mean, you can fight each other, you can play each other at poker dice.
SPEAKER_01:Uh also, by the way, when you fought each other in that town, that town pub then gets it. Um, but it's just it's got interactivity built into almost every single part of it. You've never it's never quite a moment. So either if you're playing dice poker, the other person is rolling against you, if you're fighting a monster, you're playing the monster deck. Um, when it comes to your scenario or your event cards, because there are two options, you have to read it out to your opponent. So there's just all these touch points. Yeah, you always evolve together. Always involved, and there's never a quiet moment.
SPEAKER_00:And obviously, like when you fight, the other player takes the control of the monster. So you want to win as the monster because you you know, in some of these games, okay, you know, you take a role of her, but it's a cop and you just do it to yeah. No, you want to beat the other person when you're fighting them.
SPEAKER_01:And what's also really amazing is that some of the monster cards allow you to do things that are gonna fuck things up for them permanently. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:So trash cards.
SPEAKER_01:Trash a card.
SPEAKER_00:Which is a good thing in the long term, but you can also use that to go, actually, in a couple of times, I'm gonna come fight you, so I'm gonna make you trash a bunch of cards.
SPEAKER_01:Yes. Or you can just like lower their attributes permanently as a result of you know, the the monster deck. And that's just a really lovely added layer of interaction that has such meaning, I think.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. You know, yeah, absolutely. And there is just there is so much table talk. You're constantly chatting, there's constant banter, there's constant taunting, at least in this house anyway. Yeah, um, particularly around poker dice. There's a lot of swearing at the other person. Um it feels particularly egregious when it's the bank and you're playing as the bank, because I just feel like you're robbing me for no real reason. I just I cannot fault the table that like this is if you want a game that is highly interactive, that you're going to get angry at each other, laugh together, it it's it's spot on for all of that, and I cannot recommend it enough. I have given it a nine.
SPEAKER_01:So I gave it a ten.
SPEAKER_00:Fair enough. I'm not gonna quibble, I'm not gonna quibble with the ten. Like, it is so good for that.
SPEAKER_01:Well, really well thought out as well. Again, it's not tokenistic, it's it's it it's part of its design, and that's what really makes it think.
SPEAKER_00:And as a two-player experience, there's very little time that you're not involved in the game in some way on the other person's turn, it's just that constant back and forth. Um, it's it's it's it's it's a thing of beauty.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I still manage to not notice the fact that you are streaking into the wind.
SPEAKER_00:No, because you are so distracted by frolicking around, you don't notice the actual game, which leaves us really neatly, segues us into the next category, competitiveness. I'll let you start.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, yeah, so it is. It is really competitive, but also you can get distracted by shinies. Um and I think it well, I mean, I've really said this is where it really falls down. It doesn't fall down, it doesn't fall down for me though, does it? I love it.
SPEAKER_00:It does for this category, though.
SPEAKER_01:It does in this category because I think it's just too easy to go off on a myriad of side quests and just lose track of what it is that you're doing and therefore get frozen out.
SPEAKER_00:You find it nine impossible to focus in this, which makes you a very easy opponent to be.
SPEAKER_01:Yes.
SPEAKER_00:Um you're just having too much fun following around the world. Um which is fair enough, but there is the capacity for that. I I think I have a number of issues with the competitiveness of this as a two-player experience. It's very uh easy to stretch into an unassailable lead quite quickly if one person is focused, lucky, and on it. And it's a long experience, it's not a short game. There's a lot of extraneous stuff going on, but if you just want to mainline winning, there there's a weakness to the penalties you get from failing to win a fight.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, so actually failing to win a fight isn't necessarily a bad thing.
SPEAKER_00:In some ways it's actually a good thing to get an extra card. And if you wanted to be like Mr. Min Maxer on this, you could just camp those monsters and fight them until you win and then move on to the next one and not really engage with the rest of the game. And I find that sours the competitiveness of a game for me because if you're playing optimally, it makes it unfun. It means I don't enjoy it that as much. And it doesn't affect my fun. But if you look at this as a competitive experience, I'd be like, if I really want to win this, I could do this, and there's no fun in that. So I'm not gonna do it. But some people might just do that and think, oh, this is not a great game. You know, it's it just doesn't work that well competitively.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. I also think what's really interesting is that you have the opportunity to fight another Witcher. And yet we've only done that twice. And I don't know why.
SPEAKER_00:I can tell you why that is. Why is it? Because you're too busy fucking around. It's usually me that initiates it, and you usually spag my ass every time I do it, so I try and avoid it now.
SPEAKER_01:And then you try and avoid it, so I don't realise I've got to be a little bit more.
SPEAKER_00:You're basically there crouched down picking flowers and flirting with a bard. I pitch up trying to whack you with a sword, you smack me and then go back to what you were doing. Yeah, and I just lump back and go, I'll go fight a monster instead though. Um you're quite evenly matched. The Witcher fights are quite hard to win. Um, I've had very little success with it, and you know, I don't like to distract you from your whatever the fuck it is that you're doing. Most of the time, God knows you're you know, you got a horse on the roof, you got somebody the orphan child child following you around, you know, and it's like I'm just gonna let you do you. Um so yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Is that not a me issue?
SPEAKER_00:Yes and no. I think for me, yes, that's that's a you issue, and that's gonna change your score in this. But for me, I don't like the fact that the optimal there's there they've there's optimal strategies that make the game actively less fun. And there's that issue that they've done this incredible experience, but I don't think they've done enough to force is a very strong word, but make the player engage with all of it. And in fact, if you're playing to win, you engage with less of it, yeah. And that just feels so counterintuitive to me that it it sours my experience off as a competitive experience, and it makes it less satisfying to win because I'm yes, I've I've won, but at what cost? You know, I I won at the expense of my own enjoyment of the evening.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I also think again it's that roots to victory thing as well. I mean, ultimately, you're right, the Witcher is a combat, it's about combat, it's about fighting monsters and saving the world and stuff. And actually, you could win without doing any of that.
SPEAKER_00:Doing anything one of that.
SPEAKER_01:Well, yeah, just one, you know. Um, but I think again that's I mean, that's really cool and that's really interesting, and I think I would try it and see if I can. Um, but it just takes something away from that thematic.
SPEAKER_00:And go back to the competitiveness, the competitiveness. If you did try decides to try and do that, it would be a complete folly because if somebody else's play to win, they're just gonna swim.
SPEAKER_01:I would also point out is that I actually had the option of doing that last time, but I kept forgetting to meditate because I wanted to go and have an encounter. It's wild's encounter, I'm not gonna meditate. Storyline promise losing now.
SPEAKER_00:Uh yeah. So yeah, I mean, overall I've given this a six. I don't think it's it's dire as a competitive experience, but it's not it's not up there with the ones the really meaty, I'm I'm gonna be really satisfied if I win one of this.
SPEAKER_01:I also gave it a six, but again, that's not why I would play this.
SPEAKER_00:No, and that's fair. I mean, this is one category, this is a specific category, six. Scalability.
SPEAKER_01:So, would this be better with more people? I'm also gonna go out on a name and say fuck yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, 100%.
SPEAKER_01:I mean the idea of two witches in a pub having a fight while everyone shouts on around them while the rest of your team and gets to bet on them, which you know we you've not mentioned until now. I mean, how fucking cool is that? Yeah. You know? Nice poker, again, it would make it even better with more people around the table.
SPEAKER_00:I also imagine some of the issues around competitiveness and fun of having to engage with a higher level content would probably be fixed if you played this before.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, because obviously you would cycle a few monsters a lot faster and therefore you would have a lot more threes out on the board and you're you you'd lose the option of going for level twos.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, in my imagination land, I feel like four would be a sweet spot with this. Yeah. Um it would be a long experience, but I think it'd be a lot more fun. It is not broken at two, it works perfectly well mechanically at two. As we have attested, it's an absolute blast. It's a bang of a game. But it it it really cries out for more people. Yeah. Absolutely, and you will feel like you're missing out a little bit playing it at two. So I gave it a four as a result.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, I I started the four and then I rated to a five. I was just feeling generous because I love it too much.
SPEAKER_00:Fair enough. Oh, that's okay. That's okay. Yeah. So yeah, I uh in in summation, I think we're both in agreement that this is, you know, it it's a it's a great experience. Two players and as a competitive jewel as such, you will feel like you're missing out.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, should we sum up those scores? So that comes out at 6.6. As always, we round, so that's a seven as a two-player experience.
SPEAKER_01:I think that's really fair.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I think it's fair. I probab personally I'd probably go for a six, but you know, meet in the middle.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, no, I think it I think six is kind of getting on for an average two player experience, isn't it?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I suppose.
SPEAKER_01:Broken about it. But I don't think it is because it's all right.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, definitely not broken. Definitely definitely.
SPEAKER_01:It's a really solid two-player game. I think it would be better.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Okay. Yeah, so there you have it. Uh a hundred and ten percent recommended to anybody who likes the IP. I I have no reservations. Board games. And board games.
SPEAKER_01:And sex cards.
SPEAKER_00:There's no sex cards on it. I keep I keep trying to find the expansion, but it's not there. Um maybe the next Kickstarter run. Um, but yes, I hope you've all enjoyed that. Uh it's an absolute fantastic experience. Highly recommended. Until next time, have fun, be good to each other, play lots of board games.
