Episode 35 - Mycelia (2024): I'M VERY INTELLIGENT

Welcome back to another episode!

In this month's deep dive we look at the strategic mushroom game, Mycelia, by Split Stone Games. There's engine building! Tile Laying! Randomness! Card Acquisition! Area Control! But does it coalesce into a satisfying whole? Join us and find out.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:16

Hello everybody and welcome to another episode of Board with Each Other, the podcast that looks at board games and asks the question: how well does this play at two players? Whether that be with your significant other, your BFF, or that friend of yours has eaten some interesting mushrooms and you need to calm them down by playing a soothing abstract strategy game. My name's Al Simpson, and as ever, I'm joined by my player too, lovely wife, Anna Kelly.

SPEAKER_01 0:38

Hi guys.

SPEAKER_00 0:39

And today we are reviewing Mycela, the strategic mushroom game released in 2024 by Split Stone Games. Not to be confused with the other Mycelia released the year before by Ravensburger.

SPEAKER_01 0:51

Is that our Mycelia?

SPEAKER_00 0:52

No, that's also Mycelia. They're called the exact same thing. There are two games called Mycelia released with a year of each other. We are doing the 2024 Split Stone Games version. Just for clarity. In Mycelia, you take the role of a mushroom. Well, no, not really a mushroom. A mushroom colony. Mycelia is played on a board that's constructed out of triangular-shaped tiles. You start the game by forming a star shape out of all these tiles, and all the tiles, well not all the tiles, but the tiles come in different colours. To start the game, you place uh a token that represents your mother mushroom onto the board. That's basically your your leader for want of a better term. On your turn, you can take a variety of the actions. Firstly, you can fruit a mushroom. So at the start of the game, you'll only have your mother mushroom on the board, and you roll a dice which represents the wind, and that dice will give you one of three symbols. On each of the tiles, there are three symbols, and you produce spores that then flow down the map, uh, depending on what uh result you got on the wind die. Once you have fruited a mushroom, you can then use those spores to grow other mushrooms from your hand of cards. These mushrooms all come with costs, which will be a number, or basically a number of pips of a certain colour. So you need spores on the map that you can take away to pay the cost for each mushroom. Those spores only operate in the area of your network, so they must all be adjacent to each other, and they must not have an opponent's mother mushroom or mushroom in their space. Once you pay the cost of the card, you then place it onto one of your player boards, of which you have five. They are numbered one to five, and each of them has slots along the top to represent how far your mushroom has decayed. Once you've placed a card down, when you fruit a mushroom in later turns, you move the purple one to the right. Once you've fruited a mushroom twice, you can decay it, which is another action. When you decay a mushroom, you take that card and you place it under that mat, and it will have an effect. It will either be an effect that affects your entire gameplay for the rest of the game. It'll be, or it'll be an effect that uh affects mushrooms that you then place down on one of those five boards, or it'll have an instant impact so it'll allow you to place tiles down or move somebody else's mushroom, etc. So that's fruiting, that's decaying. You can obviously obtain cards from a marketplace. There's a marketplace of three cards down in a deck. You can choose to take one of the available cards, or you can take the top card from the deck.

SPEAKER_01 3:24

And the cards are all different mushrooms that you can grow.

SPEAKER_00 3:26

Yes. Uh you can move your mother mushroom up to two spaces. You cannot move through another person's mother mushroom. And you can also explore, which means taking a new tile from the deck of tiles and making the board larger. You also have a free action to do with insects that you collect. Whenever a uh tile is put down with an insect icon on it, it gets an insect token. And if you move your mother mushroom through a space or land on a space with an insect token, you take it. You can use two of those insect tokens to move your opponent's mother mushroom any way you like. Which is important late in the game because if an opponent moves their mother mushroom onto one of your normal mushrooms, you cannot do anything with it. It essentially blocks it and freezes it. So there's a big element of sort of area control and knowing when to stop your opponent's mushrooms being able to do anything.

SPEAKER_01 4:19

You can also do other things with those insect tokens, so they count as victory points towards the end.

SPEAKER_00 4:24

Yeah, every two counts to a victory point.

SPEAKER_01 4:26

Yeah, there are other things that you can do with it.

SPEAKER_00 4:28

Yeah, I think you can do it to wipe a marker as well, if I remember correctly. Play continues until everybody has a decayed mushroom in each of their five slots. There's no um requirement to put mushrooms on different slots as you grow them, so the end of the game is very, very much within the player's sphere of control. You choose when you end the game. The person that does end the game takes a token which gives them five victory points at the end. All of your mushrooms have a victory point total printed on them. Obviously, the person with the most wins the game.

SPEAKER_01 5:02

Yeah, that sounds about right. Um, the only thing worth mentioning, perhaps, is that each of your mushrooms will produce a different number of spores.

SPEAKER_00 5:10

Yes. Um and they range from one to four.

SPEAKER_01 5:13

Yeah. Uh so you get more bang for your buck, depending on the mushroom. And in terms, I guess, of playtime 45 minutes, I would say.

SPEAKER_00 5:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:24

Yeah. Um, yeah, so this is one we picked up at UK Games Expo.

SPEAKER_01 5:31

I've had my eye on it for a while.

SPEAKER_00 5:32

Yeah, you saw it and you thought, oh, that looks very cool. And you had your eye on it. And we saw the stand at UK Games Expo and we picked up a copy.

SPEAKER_01 5:39

Yes. And we played it that evening.

SPEAKER_00 5:42

Yeah, we played it immediately in the in the pub of the hotel.

SPEAKER_01 5:45

I've been with a lot of other board gamers out of playing the newly acquired board games. Um and yeah, we've played it quite a bit since 19.

SPEAKER_00 5:54

Yes, we have, so we thought we would give it a review.

SPEAKER_01 5:57

Right. So, anything else before we move on to scoring?

SPEAKER_00 6:00

Yeah, I just want to raise sort of a general point about this and just sort of a shout out. I do want to shout out the uh designer that's JJ Neville, because uh, as we'll get into, he's made uh a very interesting game, but he's also done all of the artwork for it.

SPEAKER_01 6:15

So not only is he a talented board game designer, he's also a fabulous artist as well.

SPEAKER_00 6:21

Yeah, so leave some talent for the rest of us, please, dude. Um, I just I just think that's notable, and given what we were about to talk about, I think it's extra notable. So yeah, I just want to give a shout out for that.

SPEAKER_01 6:30

Well, that brings us neatly on to our first category, which is the components. So what's in the box? Um, as you've hit on, this is absolutely stunning as far as games go. Yeah, your colour scheme is really earthy and autumnal. The illustrations on each of the cards are really accurate as far as I'm aware. I don't know a huge amount about mushrooms.

SPEAKER_00 6:52

Do you not?

SPEAKER_01 6:52

No, it's not, it's not one of the things that I know a lot about, but I think they're very accurate, um, and just really beautiful.

SPEAKER_00 6:59

Yeah, the whole thing looks absolutely stunning. Like it really does. It looks beautiful when it's out on the table, and um the coupons definitely have a deluxe feel to them. Everything feels really, really nice.

SPEAKER_01 7:12

The cards are really nice, you've got a lot of wooden counters, which are really lovely. I also really like the box insert, and in my head, I kind of really hope that it's made from like mushroom packaging.

SPEAKER_00 7:22

Yeah, it's definitely not it's definitely an unstandard material.

SPEAKER_01 7:25

It's a non-standard material, and I don't want to know because I don't want it to ruin the illusion for me, but I really like to think that what's in the box is actually mushrooms.

SPEAKER_00 7:33

But it's got a fantastic insert, everything fits back absolutely neatly where it should. And there's quite a bit, there's a fair amount of components.

SPEAKER_01 7:39

So it's it's and even down to like your insert counters, I think they're all unique.

SPEAKER_00 7:44

I'm not sure. There might be or the majority of them are unique.

SPEAKER_01 7:47

There might be some duplicates, but even down to that level of detail, I just think there's a huge amount of love that's been put into this.

SPEAKER_00 7:54

Yeah, yeah. And any game that has its own little like throne seat for the dice and the insert always always gets low vote. Um but yeah, it's it's a beautiful package, really, really nice.

SPEAKER_01 8:05

The only flaw that this game has is our as Al said, your the board that you lay all the tiles are triangular. You try and shuffle triangular tiles.

SPEAKER_00 8:15

I have no idea how to shuffle those without throw them up in the air and hope for best. Without pain and distress.

SPEAKER_01 8:20

It's just it's art. It's sweet.

SPEAKER_00 8:22

It's part of the game, I get it. Like the game only works in the triangular tiles, but my god, are they a pain to shuffle?

SPEAKER_01 8:27

Even hexagons will be easier.

SPEAKER_00 8:29

Yeah, but they wouldn't work, you know, they've been designed around that shape, which I get, but um, yeah, it it's it is a pain, but unfortunately it's part the yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:38

That said, we tend to just shuffle them, like as it just deal them out really as a way to kind of shuffle them.

SPEAKER_00 8:43

Cut the decks 17 times or whatever.

SPEAKER_01 8:46

But it's a very small point, and I do understand why it's been done because it makes this really lovely sort of growing, expanding it work. Um so I I do get it.

SPEAKER_00 8:55

Yep. Um, in terms of setup, really quick.

SPEAKER_01 8:59

Yeah, really, really quick. And also tear down as well. And again, what's really helpful is everything fits in the box.

SPEAKER_00 9:05

Yeah, so it's it's a real real joy to set up and tear down. And yeah, it's it's it's just a wonderful package. So and I've given it a nine as a result. I think it's really up there with ones that we own.

SPEAKER_01 9:15

Yeah, so I gave it an eight because I can always shuffle the times.

SPEAKER_00 9:18

Fair enough, okay.

SPEAKER_01 9:19

And I mean really picky, but yeah, I think nine is a perfectly balanced score as well.

SPEAKER_00 9:23

Yeah, all right.

SPEAKER_01 9:24

Alright, so next up we have complexity, and as always, this isn't how complex a game is or isn't, but how well the complexity serves the gameplay. For me, this is an absolute gem of a game in terms of that regard. It's really easy to teach.

SPEAKER_00 9:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:40

It's really straightforward. The only thing that's slightly complicated is around what constitutes your network or in your network. But I think the rule book's got some really lovely examples to help explain that.

SPEAKER_00 9:50

It does, yeah, it does. Um, I wouldn't say this is like super duper light. I think obviously we played a lot of ball games, and if you try to teach this to a complete board game newbie, some of the some of the aspects of it I think would be quite difficult for them to get their heads around, particularly like you say, the network. Um and just understanding how the flow of spores happens when you roll the dice, etc. But that's necessary to make it the game that it is.

SPEAKER_01 10:19

Because I guess what it doesn't lose is strategic depth.

SPEAKER_00 10:22

No.

SPEAKER_01 10:23

As a result, and I think you know, we'll probably come on to we'll talk about that more later on. Um, but I definitely think it's quick to teach. I do think there is quite a rapid leveling up in terms of skills.

SPEAKER_00 10:34

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 10:34

So if you've played this a good few times and then you crack it out with your partner, then and they haven't played it, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:39

You go you you are going to see a skill gap quite quickly, I think. Um it is definitely a strategic abstract game, and as as games without ilk always go, you will get better at it. It's a game that you will get better at. But yeah, I think the majority of the complexity from this experience comes from the strategic depth, as you said, and also how well your opponent's playing and trying to outwit your opponent, not necessarily the rules. The rule book is exceptionally well written, yet another thing to pin to Mr. Neville's. Another another um string to his bow. That's the word I think.

SPEAKER_01 11:15

Mushroom to his fairy circle.

SPEAKER_00 11:17

Very good. Um it's I think we've referred back to it once for an example around networks, but aside from that, it was one read-through and then we were away. We never had to go back to the rules and scratch my heads about anything. Um and it's all really clearly laid out. So Tom Marks for that.

SPEAKER_01 11:31

It's even down to things like the upgrades that you get when you decay your mushroom, about thinking about whether you want to go for something that gives you a permanent like game upgrade and where you would then place that and how that might work with other upgrades. Um, it's just yeah, it's it's the gift that he was giving.

SPEAKER_00 11:48

It's very well designed.

SPEAKER_01 11:50

It is very well designed game, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:51

Um, so yeah, for complexity, I've given an eight.

SPEAKER_01 11:53

Yeah, also giving it an eight.

SPEAKER_00 11:55

Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_01 11:56

Um, and then we have shelf life and value for money. So, as always, how much does it cost?

SPEAKER_00 12:02

So this retails for£50 or thereabouts.

SPEAKER_01 12:08

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 12:08

However, it's it's a little bit of a difficult one to answer because it's one of those cases where I think the majority of these were through Kickstarters. I don't think there was an awful amount of stock retail floating around. And at the time of recording, there's only one shop in the UK online you can buy it.

SPEAKER_01 12:27

Oh, that's a shame.

SPEAKER_00 12:28

It is a shame. The stock has always been quite scarce with us. I imagine they'll go through print runs. I know there's an expansion coming up soon, so I assume there'll be another Kickstarter with a base game, and that will then bleed through to retail. But there this is one of those cases where scarcity breeds closeness to the RRP, if that makes sense. So with a lot of other like really easily available retail games, different uh different shops will compete. This you're probably going to have to pay the recommended retail price, and the recommended retail price is about£50. With that said, the quality of what is in the box, I find hard to quibble with the price point.

SPEAKER_01 13:09

Yeah, I do. Even a fiver off, I think would make it that. I think 50 is definitely on the high side. It's definitely on the high side. However, do I regret spending£50 on it? I don't know how much I spent.

SPEAKER_00 13:23

We spent£50 on it, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:24

Well no one says I just handed over the card, didn't I? Oh well, yeah, it's UK came touching. Um am I upset about that? No, I don't think I am. I think I'm quite happy in terms of what's in the box and in terms of the level of replayability that I think that we are going to or have already got and will already and will continue to get.

SPEAKER_00 13:43

Yeah, absolutely. And I mean it's one of those it it it's an interesting debate with these kind of things because when you do go for something that's a little bit like Kickstarter and scarce, you you've gotta you've got to accept that you're going to pay a little bit more for it. Can you get more bang for your£50 with other ball games? More bang for your buck, yes, absolutely. However, if you want this, and that's that's what you've got to pay. And I don't think it is unreasonable.

SPEAKER_01 14:03

No.

SPEAKER_00 14:04

Um, given how high quality everything is in it, and like you say, going on to shelf life, the abstract games live and die on their depth, and how how much replayability comes from the skill ceiling, if as it were, and how much you sort of skill that up with your opponent or opponents. Um, and there's a lot of depth here as far as I see it. We played this a fair few times, I still feel like I'm sort of scratching the surface of the depth of where it will go. Um so I think from a shelf life perspective, very, very good. Will it always hold my interest and make me want to come back to it? I'm not sure. I can't say with an absolute guarantee, like, oh, I'll be playing this forever. I don't know if at some point I will get bored. So that's probably one that I can't absolutely with full confidence go, yes, I'll be playing this forever.

SPEAKER_01 14:54

Yeah, but compared to a lot of the abstract um sort of strategic games that we've played, I think this holds it will hold its shelf life much longer than a lot of the other ones.

SPEAKER_00 15:04

I think you say that, and I'm sure we'll come onto this, because I think this one's really captured you. And I think I don't think I'm not trying to counter your point or say you're you're wrong or anything, but I think with abstract gains, that shelf life is heavily dependent on how well it gels with you and your brain. And I mean that for all abstracts. You'll have something that might be more strategically deep, and you'll just go, no, not really for me.

SPEAKER_01 15:28

Just like nature and I like autumn. It's my favourite season, and I really like mushrooms. That's what I really have to justify.

SPEAKER_00 15:36

I'm just saying that I think there's always that that mileage will vary with abstract games like this, strategic games like this, where you know, if it really clicks with you, you it it becomes your chest, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_01 15:47

And you just give you one to the and it's funny because we quite often talk about theme and how strong that theme is and whether it makes coherent logical sense and how enjoyable the player experience is because of that.

SPEAKER_00 15:57

And a lot of abstracts, it doesn't.

SPEAKER_01 15:59

It doesn't. I mean, again, we reviewed some, so Basilica was a San Francisco, you know, where the theme just seems really like let's build and out based on yeah, um, and actually just how much that I think then adds to that player experience and what you get out of it, and therefore that level of replayability and fun. Sure, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:19

I mean I would tend to talk about theme and fun, I will talk about theme and fun. But um, yeah, I I completely get it, and I completely understand how this has captured you, and I completely get when it does capture you, then you can decide this is a forever game. For me, I I wouldn't say I'm on the fence, I'm leaning towards your end of the spectrum, but I'm not sure that I'm fully, fully there in terms of shelf life.

SPEAKER_01 16:46

Alright, so how did you score it then?

SPEAKER_00 16:48

Seven.

SPEAKER_01 16:48

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 16:49

Because of my slight unsureness about how long it'll hold my interest.

SPEAKER_01 16:54

So as always, I rate this before I find out about the price point and just my score. Um, but I scored it an eight, and I'm quite happy sticking with an eight.

SPEAKER_00 17:01

Sure, okay, fine.

SPEAKER_01 17:03

And so then fun. Do we have fun playing it? Um, so uh I mean I've already waxed Leroy recall about how much I like the theme and and how much it it uh how how well it looks. But for those of you who've listened to us before, um particularly around um games that have an element of area of control, area of control is not my strong point. I don't get it, I don't understand it. And so normally something like this would be quite alien to me, and I probably would find it quite frustrating, but for the first time, it's clicked. Yeah, I understand it. You get what I'm supposed to do. Yeah, and finally, after all these years, it's clicked, and it was this game that clicked, made it click for me.

SPEAKER_00 17:45

Yeah, interesting. Um yeah, so uh referring back to games we've looked at in the past is one of the things that I think really uh made you bounce off scythe.

SPEAKER_01 17:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:53

Um, it's not scythe. Whatever pronunciation, I'm so African, let me like. And also why you struggled a fair bit with Terra Mystica, I think, because you you tr you have trouble, you had trouble sort of looking at a map and understanding how to control it and punish is a strong word, but make things difficult for your opponent. Whereas this, you've got it. You didn't get it straight away, but after a few games, yeah, you suddenly it suddenly clicked for you.

SPEAKER_01 18:21

What would be really interesting to see is how well this transfers to other games and whether I've now actually.

SPEAKER_00 18:26

Well, we can now go back to another game and see if that's not going back to size. Well, that's not happening. No, no, no, I know.

SPEAKER_01 18:31

I mean, it's gone.

SPEAKER_00 18:32

It's gone.

SPEAKER_01 18:32

I burnt it. No, I didn't.

SPEAKER_00 18:34

Almost really. It's gone to a loving home.

SPEAKER_01 18:41

So yeah, uh, for me, this is always going to be quite special, I think. Yeah, because it's something that's taken me about seven, eight years, no, ten years to work out.

SPEAKER_00 18:50

So somehow get your head around, yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 18:52

Um, so yeah, it's always going to be special to me for that reason. There's also a real element, I think, of it being really satisfying.

SPEAKER_00 18:59

Yes, and there's one thing I want to build. I mean, I also love this, I find it a lot of fun to play. There's a lot of um I know they come from different genres, but you've got your sort of worm spans and things like that, where you have a marketplace and you collect cars and you have resources to pay and you build a little bit of an engine. I find this more satisfying than, for example, worm span. And I think I think it's that area control element. There's that things on a map strategic element to it mixed with that card buying and engine building, that really clicks for me. Like it's given me that missing piece that I was perhaps missing from some of those other games.

SPEAKER_01 19:43

So one of the things that perhaps we didn't mention, which maybe we should have done, was that if you move your mother mushroom on top of one of your opponent's mushrooms. We didn't mention it. So any of the spores then that are fruited by your opponent then become part of your network.

SPEAKER_00 19:57

No, we didn't mention that. Yeah, you can basically steal all your opponents'.

SPEAKER_01 19:59

Yes, you basically can steal all your opponent's resources, which is why area of control becomes quite important because I was just sporing and fruiting everywhere and doing whatever, and you were nicking them all in the upsetting. I was like, I'm not growing all of these just for you to spend them.

SPEAKER_00 20:13

I was like, that's the rules. I mean, you could do the same thing, but you're not.

SPEAKER_01 20:17

And then all of a sudden you went, oh I can do that too.

SPEAKER_00 20:21

Exactly. Um, but there is that extra element of that that sort of tactile usage of things that are map and messing you with your opponent or blocking your opponent. That's so much more pronounced in this than a lot of other games of that ilk. Um, it's definitely not a solo you play together. It's got elements of that where you're building your your tableau, your engine, whatever you want to call it. But there is that real sort of uh strategic element of actually placing placement on the map.

SPEAKER_01 20:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:50

Um, and when you decay your mushrooms, things like oh, you can decay a mushroom, but that means any other mushroom we place in that space, you can choose what direction the wind goes when it spores, and you just get more options and more strategic depth as the game goes on. And that that's the secret source for me. It's that mixture of those two elements, and I think this absolutely nails it.

SPEAKER_01 21:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:13

Um, you mentioned theme, so I'll mention theme here. I this doesn't feel pasted on, it doesn't even feel abstract to a certain extent. It's like, okay, this is really good representation of a mycelia network and managing it. Like the theme works with the gameplay and the design in a way that I haven't really come across with a lot of other abstracts. It's not just these often really, really intricate game design elements with something pasted on just to get it out the door. This is this has really been thought of from the ground up. Um got him. Um but yeah, I I I'm very, very impressed by that. Like really impressed. It really nails a theme which could have been pasted on if done in a different way. So I find that really admirable.

SPEAKER_01 21:59

Yeah. I definitely have a good time when I'm playing it. Um and I uh yeah, I've I've got a real sweet spot for this game.

SPEAKER_00 22:09

Soft spot.

SPEAKER_01 22:10

Yeah. Sweet, soft, earthy, trippy, fungusy.

SPEAKER_00 22:16

All of the above.

SPEAKER_01 22:17

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 22:17

Um so you have how did you score it for fun then?

SPEAKER_01 22:20

Um so I scored an eight.

SPEAKER_00 22:22

So did I. Yeah. It's it's a fantastic game. It's really good fun to play.

SPEAKER_01 22:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:27

So as always, we add those up and we average it out, and then it gives us a general rating of eight exactly.

SPEAKER_01 22:32

Oh, it's a cracking game.

SPEAKER_00 22:33

Yeah, I'm sure you're pleased with that game as well. It's it's an eight out of ten, a solid eight out of ten.

SPEAKER_01 22:38

Okay, so let's move on to our two-player rating scale. Um, so how well does this play as a two-player game? And first up, we have table talkslash getting to know you.

SPEAKER_00 22:48

Interaction, crazy. Interaction in this category.

SPEAKER_01 22:51

So we do talk constantly. Either we're explaining what it is that we're doing or talking, but I guess that's how we play it. I think you probably could play this game largely in silence.

SPEAKER_00 23:04

Yes, you could. I think it's sort of elements where you have to sort of explain what it is that you're doing. It's quite a thingy experience.

SPEAKER_01 23:12

It is.

SPEAKER_00 23:13

It's not something that definitely lends itself to loads of conversation. However, there is interactivity and you do interact with your opponents directly, particularly around the mother mushroom and moving it and blocking and all that kind of thing. And as a result of increasingly our games, it's a fair amount of trash talk.

SPEAKER_01 23:31

No, there is, isn't there?

SPEAKER_00 23:32

Yeah. Um, so it is a game that does lend itself to that to a certain extent. Can it be mean? Kinda? There are elements in the game where you can really screw up your opponent's play.

SPEAKER_01 23:47

I mean, we'll talk about this more into competitivity. Yeah, I suppose competitivity. Competitiveness.

SPEAKER_00 23:52

Competitiveness. That one words are hard. Put the mushrooms down. Um, isn't a game that you're constantly going to be talking over your turn with your opponent or okay.

SPEAKER_01 24:09

And I think because a lot of it as well is about the cards that you have in your hand and what mushrooms you're going to fruit, you know, you do keep things quite close to your chest.

SPEAKER_00 24:17

Yeah, you need to to a certain extent. I mean, it is a strategic tactical game, so there is that element of, you know, just eyeing your opponent and waiting for their move. And that's to be completely expected in a game of the silk. You're not, you know, you you need you do need to concentrate and you do need to keep things.

SPEAKER_01 24:32

And that is, I think, one of the ways this perhaps game has advantages over for me over something like Terra Mystica, which is again about being able to again see your players bored. And again, we'll talk about this, I think, a bit more later on. Um, but also you you have to pay attention to what they're doing.

SPEAKER_00 24:52

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 24:52

Um, and so it keeps you engrossed in their turn to a certain extent. Turns are really short and snappy. Yes, you only get two actions per turn.

SPEAKER_00 25:02

And you can't repeat those actions. I don't say that in the rules.

SPEAKER_01 25:08

So actually, that play and that that that flow between the two of you is quite quick, which means I think it keeps it feeling fresh. Yeah, yeah, and allows for more interactivity because of that.

SPEAKER_00 25:21

I don't think, well, yeah, I kind of get what you mean. I think there's enough room tactically, you know. Interesting, you mentioned Terra Mystica. I think with big Euro games that ilk, looking at your opponent's board sometimes is like trying to be hieroglyphics. You've got so much going on in your own head, it's like I've got no room to analyze what it is you're doing and where you're at. This is streamlined enough that you can very much keep an eye on your opponent, which again can cause a bit of table talk, a bit of interactions, like oh, I see what you're doing there, and blah blah blah blah.

SPEAKER_01 25:48

Yeah, you know so one of the and again perhaps it's kind of competitivity, but it it's that you you spell it with me.

SPEAKER_00 25:55

Competitiveness.

SPEAKER_01 25:57

I can't say skellington either.

SPEAKER_00 25:59

No, no, no.

SPEAKER_01 26:00

Yeah, there are just some words I'm very diligent, but there are some words that I can't say. Um I've lost my train of freedom.

SPEAKER_00 26:06

She says so herself. I'm very intelligent internet. Listen and bow to me. Welcome to my TED talk. Um Yeah, I'm absolutely keeping in the understanding of the internet how clever I am. It's important to have self-confidence, huh?

SPEAKER_01 26:30

Um I've now forgotten my point.

SPEAKER_00 26:32

Not that intelligent then, are you? Oh, is that? Yeah, that's all mushrooms.

SPEAKER_01 26:38

Um so anyway, well maybe we should how do you think it's a bit more than a bit?

SPEAKER_00 26:42

Um I gave it a seven. I don't think it is the most table talking interactive experience you can have, but it's pretty good.

SPEAKER_01 26:48

Yeah, so I gave it a six.

SPEAKER_00 26:50

Okay, cool.

SPEAKER_01 26:51

Um, so then let's talk about how competitive it is.

SPEAKER_00 26:55

Yeah, competitiveness.

SPEAKER_01 26:57

Yeah, that one.

SPEAKER_00 26:59

Uh super.

unknown 27:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:02

Yeah, it's it's one of these wonderful ones where the more you play it, the more the more intense it starts to get. It does once you understand the mechanisms and what's possible in the game. Once you get to that, sorry, once you get to that magic six number six play, you're starting to really understand everything that you're capable of, and that's when it starts to get really interesting.

SPEAKER_01 27:22

And it I think then also things like victory point scoring, etc., becomes a little bit more second nature, you understand what it is you're doing. So it's a lot easier to keep eyes and keep your tab on your opponent.

SPEAKER_00 27:32

So you that to a certain extent, what I find really interesting with this one is when you tuck the cards, you can't see how many victory points they have. So you have to memorize what it is your opponent's got at.

SPEAKER_01 27:45

One of the things we haven't mentioned, which we probably should have done in the rules, is that your victory points are tallied as soon as you grow that mushroom. You don't have to decay it for those victory points to count. So as long as you have it fruited and it's it's out there on your board, that still counts to your victory point total. Um, and that I think is also quite interesting because it means that you can pip your opponent, you can you can steal a victory when actually your opponent thinks ah they've got this in the bag. Absolutely. It's kind of what happened to us last time, apart from it's still beat you, because I am just awesome.

SPEAKER_00 28:17

Yeah, I'm like highly highly intelligent.

SPEAKER_01 28:20

Um I'm so embarrassed.

SPEAKER_00 28:24

I mean, you've said it now, it must be true. Um yeah, there there is that you you you kind of know where your opponent's at, but you don't know for sure unless you've got a photographic memory, because you have to keep you you I like when we play I keep an eye, but after a while you're I'm not quite sure how much that one was worth, and and it's fine margins in this. It's you're not talking about like a hundred victory points versus fifty or anything like that. It's it's always very, very close.

SPEAKER_01 28:52

Um one of the things that you often talk about is is it just a race? Um to for example, decaying all your five mushrooms, and I think that was one of your concerns about this when we first played it. Um, because of the variability of the um the board, the colours, everything. Yep, and the value of the cards as well, which can vary from I think up to eight. I've seen an eight.

SPEAKER_00 29:16

Yeah, I think this is that I think there's an eight.

SPEAKER_01 29:18

I think there's a there's a couple of eights down to uh, you know, just a couple twos. Um it means you can't just rush this.

SPEAKER_00 29:26

You could. It's I think what's beautiful about this is there's a number of really viable strategies, but that strategy depends on what's happening, so you have to pivot. You can't, this is not a game you can solve and go, oh, rushing works in this, I'm just gonna rush it down, or delaying end game works in this, I'm gonna do that. It's very dependent on what's happened during the game, what cards have come out, where the spores have gone, uh, how much the board has been built out, what your opponent's up to. There's a lot of viable strategies to that, and rushing it down is one because I have done it once really effectively. Like I basically just shut you down completely. Only happened once. So it is a viable strategy, but only in the right circumstances, and knowing when that circumstance is. And that's one of the things that makes this very Moorish for me, because you don't know which of those which of the bag tricks you need to pull out. It has got a bit like area control with you. I have a little bit of an Achilles heel in ball games that I am noticing, and that is player-initiated end game. I quite struggle knowing the right time to call it, and I will either fall foul of trying to rush down and then getting smacked in the face with you having more victory points, or delaying things too long and ending up missing my window. I really struggle with it. I've not quite got my head round it. And I think in the vast majority of our games, you're the one that's initially initiated endgames. I've been a little bit unsure. But again, it's a skill thing, and that's that's that's something you just grow with as you as you play it more.

SPEAKER_01 31:00

I also think, I mean, we kind of touched on this in other categories. What makes this so competitive is again about where you place your mother mushroom. So making sure that your opponent can't fruit or decay their mushroom, about using it to seal their resources. So, for example, within my network, I have no red spores and I really need them for this. So I'll tell you what, I'm gonna nick all of yours.

SPEAKER_00 31:20

Or you've got option, or you can just go, oh, I'll try and build out the board, but then you can try and build out the board and not get what you need. And even if you get what you need, the wind dice might not go in your favour.

SPEAKER_01 31:29

Favour, yeah, or you roll the wind dice and it will roll out into the ether.

SPEAKER_00 31:34

Yeah, it can be because of the enter the board, you just lose those spores. And what we didn't mention, I didn't mention the rules, is the wildcard tiles. So you get black tiles which are wild because you can use those spores on those tiles for anything. But they can be one of those is on the board and only one, that ends up being a fight. Yeah, because everybody wants that. You get a mushroom on that, and you basically got wild card spores to use every turn.

SPEAKER_01 31:54

But only twice, because actually you can only fruit your mushroom twice.

SPEAKER_00 31:57

Yeah, or you stick your mother mushroom on there, you know, whatever. But your mother mushroom only spores two spores, and you don't get the decaying effect, so there's all this push and pull going on there. And again, I've we've had a game where there's been one of those, and it's uh you know, you're you're gonna make a bee light for trying to get that square. And then on top of that, you've got the insects, which I think is a really interesting mechanism because you need to sacrifice actions to pick them up because you've got to be moving your mother mushroom around.

SPEAKER_01 32:21

But spending them is a free action.

SPEAKER_00 32:23

Spending them is a free action, but it adds that extra layer of extra layer to it, extra layer of spice to it, because public information, I know you've got two insects. Do I bluff my way into making you use them early? Do I create enough nuisance that then I can do something really powerful at the end? And then forcing you to use actions to go and pick them up. Like there's so many layers to that mechanism, um, and it just hits. It's brilliant.

SPEAKER_01 32:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:49

Um, I absolutely love that aspect of it.

SPEAKER_01 32:53

Um, so how did you score it?

SPEAKER_00 32:57

I gave it an eight. I cheated towards a nine, but I settled on an eight.

SPEAKER_01 33:02

So I gave it a seven, but now we've sat there and talked about it. I I think that was a bit mean, and I think I probably should rate it an eight.

SPEAKER_00 33:09

Okay. I mean, is there anything that made you rate at seven? That we perhaps haven't mentioned. Is there anything any niggles?

SPEAKER_01 33:16

No, and I think that's why I'm re-rating it. Fair enough. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 33:23

Uh-huh. As a highly intelligent person, I'm glad you, you know, you can As a highly intelligent person.

SPEAKER_01 33:28

I adjust my views to suit the data. Fuck off.

SPEAKER_00 33:31

There you go. Further evidence. Further evidence, listeners. Highly intelligent.

SPEAKER_01 33:36

Stop eating it, please.

SPEAKER_00 33:38

No, I'm not gonna I'm not gonna go.

SPEAKER_01 33:41

Just again, there's no point of scalability.

SPEAKER_00 33:45

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 33:46

Would this be better with more players? Ten out of ten would be just as banging as a two-player game, and you couldn't play it with more or less. Or shouldn't. Or shouldn't. Um being is desperately crying out for more.

SPEAKER_00 33:58

I think this would be a better game with more.

SPEAKER_01 34:00

Yeah, so I struggled to know how to score this because it plays really well at two, and I think it's a really solid two-player game. It's one that I would highly recommend to anyone that so that doesn't so play as two player, that makes no sense. Um, but shh, quiet, be quiet. Um, I think it's a really, really solid game at two. It is. So I couldn't rate it less than a five. No. But it would be more competitive, there would be more um interaction, there would be a lot more, I think, with more players around the table.

SPEAKER_00 34:36

Yeah, I mean, spoiler alert, I've gone to a five as well for precisely that reason. I couldn't give it below a five because it is not it's not broken, and it's as you've heard, as wax lyrical, it's a great experience or two, so I'm not gonna rate it down. However, you say screaming out for more of us, it's screaming out for more people, to the point that I think I want to have a try and introducing the automata to our games because there is an automatic automata. No, there is an automata for solo play, but you can also use it to buoy up player numbers, and we haven't at the time really experimented with that.

SPEAKER_01 35:10

So we needed to, in all fairness, we've really enjoyed our two-player experience.

SPEAKER_00 35:14

But I'd like to try it because I have a feeling this might knock it up a further notch, and if it knocks it up a further notch, then this will absolutely become a further game for me. If you if it if it pushes that more up, then I'm like, okay, yeah, I'm fully on board, it'll be further. Um, but I don't know what the overhead on that's like. I don't know if it's going to interfere with, but it's quite a thinky game. You know, I always worry that it's like, oh, that's an extra thing to wonder about. But you know, you compare it to June Imperium and the automata that works in that really, really well. To I have a feeling this is so well designed that it's probably going to be quite good. So I do want to give that a go.

SPEAKER_01 35:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:47

And if we do stick with this and we do end up getting the expansion and come back to it in a bite size.

SPEAKER_01 35:51

If we will because I love this.

SPEAKER_00 35:52

Yeah, we come back to it in a bite size, we'll also talk about that then, I think.

SPEAKER_01 35:55

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 35:56

But for these purposes, yeah. I mean, I'd I think this with I feel like three.

SPEAKER_01 36:01

Yeah, I wonder if four might be a bit much because your board's either going to get very chaotic or it's going to get very sprawling.

SPEAKER_00 36:07

Or it's just going to be frustrating, which is constantly blocked. I don't know, but I feel like three might be the sweet spot for this.

SPEAKER_01 36:11

I think what's really interesting is that we will place tiles, but we don't always place that many. We place maybe about four, perhaps.

SPEAKER_00 36:18

Yeah, I only tend to do it when I'm pushed to the edge of the map and I'm either looking for a colour that would make my life easier, or I'm a bit penned in and once I'm over my spores to go, then I'm not just gonna go off the map.

SPEAKER_01 36:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:29

Um, that's the only reason I tend to do it, otherwise I tend to play any space. It's there.

SPEAKER_01 36:33

But I think when you start talking about four players, then it will that's adding time to action probably is going to be a lot more valuable.

SPEAKER_00 36:40

But that's fine, that's cool because the actions take on different values depending on the player counts, and that's I've got no issue with that. That's fine. Um, but yeah, I had to score this right down the middle. So a five is not a oh, this is not very good with two. It's it's it's meeting that middle point between this is greater two, but probably even better with more. Yeah. And I feel like it's designed for more than two.

unknown 37:00

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 37:00

That is cool.

SPEAKER_01 37:01

All right, so let's add those up.

SPEAKER_00 37:03

So that gives us an overall two-player rating of 6.5, which we round to a seven. I am happy with a seven.

SPEAKER_01 37:09

I'm happy with a seven, and I do think it would be higher if it weren't for the fact that we think it's probably a bit better with more players.

SPEAKER_00 37:15

But yeah, like I say, what's the space for bite size in the future? We'll be undoubtedly we'll pick up the expansion and loop back to this, and then we'll talk about the autonomous uh there. Indeed. Okay, well, thank you very, very much for joining us. I hope you uh enjoyed that episode. And until next time, have fun, be good to each other, play lots of board games.