How To Build A Life Of Purpose And Presence As A Busy Physician With Dr. Michael Hersh

🎙️ Welcome back to another impactful episode of The Physicians and Properties Podcast with host, Dr. Alex Schloe.

💡 What if the path to freedom in medicine wasn’t quitting altogether—but learning how to reclaim control, set boundaries, and align your career with the life you actually want?

In this episode, Dr. Schloe sits down with Dr. Michael Hersh, a full-time gastroenterologist, husband, father, podcaster, and physician coach at Better Physician Life Coaching. After nearly two decades in practice, Dr. Hersh found himself burned out, overwhelmed, and ready to walk away from medicine altogether. Coaching gave him the tools to shift his mindset, restore balance, and build a career that supports—not suffocates—his life.

They dive into the hidden signs of being “stuck” in medicine, the importance of boundaries, why physicians struggle with achievement addiction, and how to use entrepreneurship and coaching to create more freedom, presence, and purpose.

💥 What you’ll learn:
✔️ The early warning signs that you’re stuck or heading toward burnout
✔️ How a single coaching question changed Dr. Hersh’s entire outlook
✔️ Why the FIRE movement can help—but also hurt—if misapplied
✔️ How to set boundaries around your time, patients, and personal life
✔️ The power of self-compassion and community for physicians
✔️ Practical tools to stay present with family while thriving in medicine

🔥 Key Takeaways:
✔️ Burnout isn’t solved by quitting—it’s solved by realignment
✔️ Boundaries are essential to protect your time, energy, and joy
✔️ Physicians are highly capable entrepreneurs when they allow themselves to learn
✔️ Achievement can become an addiction—presence is the antidote
✔️ Your past self dreamed of the life you have—don’t forget that

If you’re ready to stop dreading work, rediscover your joy in medicine, and build a career that supports the life you want to live—this episode is for you.

Connect with Dr. Michael Hersh:

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Transcript

Dr. Michael Hersh: A couple of days later, the, the coach that was running the program reached out to me. We hopped on a call. And I was asked the, the question that I attribute to changing everything for me, which was, if you don't do this, what changes?

And I hadn't really thought about it before, and I think I was pretty resistant. I, I'm still kind of resistant to change, but  I think I, I kind of also had this thought that people don't change.

 Dr. Alex Schloe: Welcome to the Physicians and Properties Podcast, the show where we teach you how investing in real estate can give you the freedom to practice medicine and live life how you want. Doctor, doctor, doctor, doctor, doctor. Now here's your host, Dr. Alex Schloe.

 Hello everyone. Welcome to the Physicians and Properties podcast.  Today's guest is all about helping physicians reclaim their lives.  Dr. Michael Hirsch is a full-time practicing gastroenterologist. More importantly, he's a husband, he's a father. He's also a podcaster with a new podcast that just launched,  and he is a physician coach at Better Physician Life Coaching.  He specializes in helping doctors create. Work-life balance,  manage stress, reduce overwhelm, and set goals that align with the life that they actually want to live.  As I mentioned, he is the creator in the host of a new podcast,  better Physician Life, how to Get Unstuck in Your Medical Career.  It's an incredible podcast for physicians who feel out of sync. It's where real conversations happen to help us rethink what success really means.  In this episode, we'll talk about how to leverage the same drive, dedication that got us through medicine, not only just to excel in our careers,  but to design a freedom of life, purpose and presence. Dr. Michael Hersh, it is so great to have you on the podcast.

 How are things going?

Dr. Michael Hersh: Oh, it's so good, and thank you so much. I am so excited to be here.

Dr. Alex Schloe: I'm excited to have you on the podcast, been following your journey for quite some time. Super excited about the new podcast that just dropped on Monday. Can't wait to listen to that.  That's gonna add a lot of value to folks.  Before we talk more about the podcast and everything that you've done, which is incredible, do you mind  sharing a bit about your journey in medicine?

What drew you to gastroenterology?  What did that look like in the early years of your practice?

Dr. Michael Hersh: Of course. Absolutely. So I was pretty traditional when it came to medical education straight through high school, college, med school residency. I always. Was drawn to gastroenterology. And I didn't think there was any chance I was gonna match in gi. And actually I am old enough that when I got my GI fellowship, there was no match.

I, I think I was the last year before GI went into the match and I was lucky enough to get a spot at the program where I was doing my residency. I did all my training in St. Louis and it was, it has been. Everything I could have wanted for a career in medicine. I love the procedural aspect, but I also love sitting down and seeing patients in the office and working through things.

And so I'm about, I just think I just started my 17th year post-fellowship. Hard to believe. So solidly mid-career now and you know, it's been. A wild ride. I have seen so many changes in medicine. I think when I was in medical school and even residency, we were writing notes with a pen and paper, and so I have seen all of the changes.

I know what it is to write orders in a chart and change the dial so that the unit secretary  knows that there are orders that need to be entered. And now here we are like, I'm not even sure we have. Unit secretaries anymore 'cause we just, you know, are entering all these orders ourselves. So seen so many changes in medicine and healthcare and I, I, I, I, I'm sure that we will get to it, but this is partly how I found physician coaching for myself because of a lot of those changes.

But I'll,  I'll pause there and I'll let you ask anything that you want.

Dr. Alex Schloe: Absolutely. Yeah, we'll get to that for sure. And I mean, it's unbelievable how fast medicine's changing. We could do this podcast in a year and probably be like, oh my gosh, I can't believe  X, Y, and Z with AI and everything else. It's unbelievable.  I do have to ask a question since you're a gastroenterologist.  We,  we had a Instagram page called Doc Turds, which is a ridiculous name that we started in residency.  And we would. We would put on there our Foreign Body Friday images. So it was a collection of foreign bodies that that we accumulated over all our times. All the residents would pitch in and some other friends and stuff, and folks would guess what that foreign body object was.

It was a huge hit on Instagram. And in fact, we got contacted by a television agency who wanted to make a show that was essentially Foreign Body Friday. It was, it was nuts.  So I have to ask. As a gastroenterologist, what is the weirdest foreign body that you've ever pulled out of an orifice?

Dr. Michael Hersh: I, I wish we could have removed it for the patient, but it was they were tent stakes. So the, the, the stakes that you use to stabilize a tent when you're camping that were ingested and unfortunately they could not be removed, endoscopically, and that patient did end up going for surgery. I don't have the images otherwise I'd be happy to that.

Dr. Alex Schloe: Yeah. DS hasn't been updated in a long time. But if you have good foreign body images, we'd love to see 'em. Alway always a good time.  Yeah, the, the, the weirdest one, unfortunately I was not involved in this, was probably the, the vanilla latte Starbucks Frappuccino bottle that they just fell on.  And then we did have someone come into the ER who had a a spray bottle of sunscreen that was stuck in the rectum.

So those were good ones. As well, but

Dr. Michael Hersh: i, I should clarify, the 10 stakes were swallowed.

Dr. Alex Schloe: Which is incredible.

Dr. Michael Hersh: which, which

Dr. Alex Schloe: it was a sword or something?

Dr. Michael Hersh: Yes, exactly.

Dr. Alex Schloe: Did they just fall on it as

well,

Dr. Michael Hersh: exactly. Yes.

Dr. Alex Schloe: yeah. Yeah.  Yeah.  Unbelievable. Sorry for the sidebar there, folks, but I had, I had to ask that question. Well, I, Michael, you, you mentioned that there was a lot of change and that led to the fact that you decided, Hey, I feel like I need some, some coaching, physi physician coaching, or at what point did you realize that, you know, you were checking all the boxes, you were doing all the procedures, everything that you needed to do as a GI doc, but something still felt off or felt unbalanced.

At what point was that for you, and what did that look like?

Dr. Michael Hersh: Yeah, so you know, I kind of hit the ground running Post-Fellowship joined a very small  multi-specialty group that just kept getting bigger and bigger. It got bought by the local hospital system, bought by the larger corporate health system nearby. I just kept getting busier. The practice kept getting busier.

I had an experience with a medical malpractice case that really took me for a loop. And you know, it all settled down and it was all fine, and yet it was all taking a toll. I, I have a family, so I got married. We have kids, and all of these things were happening, and seemingly they were all the things that happen as somebody progresses in their medical career.

And  I never really was able, I just, it started to take a toll, I guess is, is the best way to say it. And then COVID happened and that was like. That was like kerosene on a flame. It just blew the doors open and I just didn't know I was looking for a way out. I just, I decided that I needed to save as much money as possible, retire as soon as I could, and just get out of medicine because I thought the only way that I could be happy.

Was if I got out and I just stopped practicing and physician coaching. This was probably about five years ago, right? So COVID time and it was relatively new and there were not any physician coaching programs for men. Or that allowed men to join. And I happened to find one that was a co-ed program and they had a call that you could listen to and tune into and kind of find out more information about what coaching was.

So I, I listened while I was commuting home from work and. My initial thought was like, I don't really have anything in common with these other doctors. Like this doesn't really fit with what's going on for me. And I logged off the call and I went into my house and I was eating dinner with my wife. My kids were already in bed.

And 'cause I was getting home so late  and I told my wife what I had done on the way home and I was like, but I'm not gonna do it. And my wife just deadpan looked at me. She's like, you have to do this. And I was like, I, you know, I, I think I just need to retire. We just need to keep on this path, and I just need to get out.

And she was, and she was very encouraging. And she said, no, you know, I think that, that you need to do this. And I still wasn't entirely convinced. And so a couple of days later, the, the coach that was running the program reached out to me. We hopped on a call. And I was asked the, the question that I attribute to changing everything for me, which was, if you don't do this, what changes?

And I hadn't really thought about it before, and I think I was pretty resistant. I, I'm still kind of resistant to change, but  I think I, I kind of also had this thought that people don't change. And so what was the point? And it was that one question that gave a little bit of possibility to the fact that maybe things could change if I allowed them to.

And, and that is what encouraged me to sign up for that first physician coaching program. And I will say all these five years later, I, I live in the same house. I'm married to the same woman, I have the same children. I commute every day back and forth to the same exact job, and everything is different.

And that has been a little bit of my path and yeah.

Dr. Alex Schloe: That's amazing. Yeah. Thank, thank you for sharing that and being vulnerable.  And you know, and I, I tell folks all the time, and, and I myself am just. So incredibly grateful for my wife and, and I think having an incredible spouse or partner, it can be a huge game changer for physicians. And  I think sometimes we also forget like the toll of being a physician, spouse, or partner,  like it, it can be pretty significant.

And, you know, I had a, a similar conversation with my wife and mine was kind of centered a little bit more around some anxiety and, and some, and some burnout and so forth that I was dealing with. And,  and she basically said the same thing. She was like, Hey, like you, you need to get help. Like you're essentially. Telling me everything that a patient tells you in regards to anxiety and these things that they're dealing with, and you're telling them what to do, but you're not willing to get help for yourself. And so she was really supportive in regards to that and that was a huge game changer for me. Just willing, being willing to admit like, Hey, something, something is wrong.  It's okay that it's wrong. It's okay that I'm a doctor and still suffering with some anxiety. I need to go get some help. And  that, that was huge for me. And so I, I think if folks are listening to this and they resonate with  either of our stories, like if you're feeling like you're stuck, if you're feeling like you're dealing  with burnout or anxiety or depression or, or.  Stuck in your job. Like there, there are people who've gone through that. They're incredible coaches like Michael who are out there. You know, feel free to reach out to us 'cause we don't want you to be trapped. We want you to love what you do and practice medicine 'cause you want to  and have that life of freedom, purpose, and presence as we mentioned in the intro.

So  anyways, I wanted to really foot stomp that 'cause I think it's really important and I know a lot of docs  that are in a similar place and they just feel stuck. They feel trapped.

Dr. Michael Hersh: I, I wanna piggyback on what you were just saying because I, this is a conversation that I love and I love that we can be two male physicians having this conversation because men in general are socialized not to talk about these things, and it's incredibly common.

Dr. Alex Schloe: Yeah.

Dr. Michael Hersh: remember the first time I heard other male physicians talking about their experiences, right?

I, I said in that initial call, I didn't really see myself in the other male physicians that were speaking, and that was on me, not on them. I actually had everything in the world in common with them, but I was just so closed off to seeing it that I couldn't. I just couldn't see how much their stories were resonating with what was going on for me.

And so it is so important for, for me and you, and for all of us to be telling our stories and to be talking about how common all of this is, because it can't get better. Until we do talk about it. And so, yeah. So just like you were thanking me for being vulnerable, I'm gonna toss it back to you and thank you for being vulnerable because I think  together, you know, we can, we can all make this better for, for each other.

Dr. Alex Schloe: Yeah, absolutely. I, I completely agree. I mean,  yeah, male for me, military, you know, physician, like  all, all those things just kind of compiled and I was like, Hey, you know,  like surely this isn't happening to me. Surely this isn't a problem of mine, even though I knew deep down it was, but I was so scared.  To admit it for like really dumb reasons too, you know?  I think kind of admitting defeat was part of it. You know, like, oh, what if I ran into a patient of mine going just talk with a therapist or whatever. Like all these things that were like, really, that doesn't matter at all.  And I did run into some patients  when I was going to talk with a therapist and they were, they were pumped to see me there 'cause they realized like, hey.  This guy's a human being. And so, yeah, thank you for that. I think that's really important. And  you know, we were talking about physicians who may feel trapped or feel stuck. What are  some of the biggest signs that you've seen that a physician is expressing or  are noticing that they may be stuck in their career or in their life?

Dr. Michael Hersh: Yeah, I think it shows up in, in different ways. I think. For a lot of physicians it is. What I have experienced and what I've, I've seen in a lot of other physicians is that work dread.  So the, you know, you get to work,  you're just sitting in your car, you gotta go in, but you just are like resisting.

You're, you know, playing wordle or listening to the last few minutes of the podcast, just really resisting getting out of the car and going into work. So work Dread is a very big one. I, for me, it, the financial independence, retirement early movement was super helpful. Like I learned so much from it, and it also simultaneously became part of my burnout.

It became part of my burnout plan and it actually probably escalated my, my feelings stuck because I, I wouldn't allow myself to see any other way out other than I just need to. Make as much as money as possible, work as much as possible, save as much as possible, and get out. And so that is another way that sometimes we keep ourselves stuck is by or, or one of the things that we do when we're feeling stuck is kind of overly focused on the escape plan, rather than trying to figure out what actually don't I like about my life right now and what can I be looking to improve?

It also shows up as people who can't disconnect from work, right? Like you get home and your kids are there and your wife is there, and you want to physically and emotionally be present, but you just can't shut it off. All of these things come up all of the time when I'm speaking with physicians.

Dr. Alex Schloe: I've had a lot of folks say similar things to me as well.  I I like to call it the Sunday scaries in terms of that dread of, of going back to work.  But yeah, you know, that is that's definitely something that folks deal with. It's definitely things that, that I have dealt with as well and, and in my past.

And  grateful that I got the help that I needed and, and no longer deal with that anymore. And I think.  I do think that part of the fire movement that is helpful that, maybe sometimes gets missed is I don't think it has to be like,  you have to go from working five days a week to working no days a week.

And you need to do that in a year  like that, that is gonna take an incredible amount of work  and is frankly pretty unreasonable.  I, I think as long as you're thinking about financial freedom is like some degree of financial freedom that can offer you some freedom in your life  and some freedom in your practice.

Maybe that's. Going from working five days a week to working four and a half days a week and maybe continuing to pair that back.  I think that's where it can be super beneficial. But I feel you in terms of like, it can be really stressful if you're like, okay, oh my gosh, I have to figure out how am I gonna replace this doctor job with passive income.

But if I buy a  long-term rental, I might cashflow a hundred dollars a month or $200 a month. And then what if the AC breaks? And like, there's all these things that can  be impactful and, and, and be more anxiety provoking. So I think it's important to  figure out, like.  What degree of passive income are you looking for?

And, and  how could you potentially obtain that in a way that's not gonna burn you out in a way that's not gonna stress you out, that's gonna give you that freedom that you're looking for.  And so that can be tricky and I'm sure you have some, some great insights into how you can kind of figure out how to align with that goal and how to make that coincide with, with work and, and practice and any insights in regards to that.

Dr. Michael Hersh: Well, just I, I'll start by just naming kind of the thing that you were just talking about and that I was just talking about as well, which is the physician personality, right? Like we think when we have an idea that we have to do it. Like tomorrow that it has to get done. And so the problem for me wasn't the financial independence retirement early movement.

In fact, I learned so much that I did not know just by tuning into podcasts and reading blogs. And I am so appreciative for everything that I learned through that process. It really set me up on a great path, and that was not the problem. The problem was that I thought I had to have it all done like tomorrow.

 And I feel like that's how a lot of physicians work and what you were just outlining is a more appropriate path, which is I don't have to go from working five days a week to not working at all. I can slowly take a step back and I'll also offer to the physicians out there, the ones who are just picturing their time, like on a beach, sipping pina coladas on a hammock, like not doing, you know, that's gonna sound great for like a week and it's gonna feel great for maybe two and then.

You're gonna start getting bored because we are highly motivated, driven people. We didn't get here by like sitting around and not doing anything. And so, you know, to imagine what does life look like when I'm not doing anything? It's really not very realistic. What we want to do is start imagining again, what are the things that I actually want to be doing?

How do I really want to be spending my days? And then building a life that actually aligns with that. And that I think is the answer to the question that you are asking, like, what is the, what are the keys? What are the tips? What are the tricks? It starts by taking a step back from the life that you're currently living and really just asking yourself some important questions like.

What do I want? What lights me up? What's exciting? What do I wanna learn about and, and how to make it not be so severe?  Like  if you are interested in learning about real estate,  you don't have to buy your first like 300 unit building by the end of the year. Right? Like you can start by learning about real estate and give yourself some time to figure it out.

And I think that that is the problem. I think we try to move so fast and we actually just burn ourselves in the process, out in the process of just even thinking through it.

Dr. Alex Schloe: Yeah, I completely agree. I think  we try and move so fast, but then we also have very analytical minds that then get  into analysis paralysis and then we.  We hit the hurdle first of educating yourself. Then we hit the hurdle of analysis paralysis and needing to know all the information and all the data to make any sort of decision.

And then we get stuck there  and get a lot of burnout. And then  hopefully the majority of physicians now listening to this podcast, listening to yours  Willing to take that leap and get over that hurdle,  but sometimes they don't and they're just stuck in, in that analysis paralysis for a really long time instead of just being willing to take action.  I think I, I completely agree with you in terms of the sipping my ties on the beach,  I don't think we really want. Sipping my ties on the beach doing nothing.  I think what a lot of physicians want is the ability to go sit my ties on the beach when they want to.  And, and I think that is something that's kind of difficult to, to think about and wrap your heads around.  I think about myself personally, like I, I'm super fortunate that I've. I've put in the, the time and the energy and the effort over the last six, seven years in  real estate and entrepreneurship, and now I'm able to  practice two days a week and direct primary care and work on the other businesses and  practice medicine.

I want to.  It took a lot of work and it took a lot of fear, and it's still taking a lot of difficulty, but personally, like I'm never gonna stop. Like I, I'm gonna be building and growing and learning until the day that I die. That's 'cause I want to and so yeah, I I love that. I, I I do, I do really think that that's really important for folks to think about. The other thing that I was thinking about as well as you were discussing that is I think there's a lot of fear a, amongst physicians to get started, as I mentioned.  And even if, like, if your goal is to go from five days a week to four.  Even if whatever avenue you decided to get some degree of financial freedom, even if that completely failed,  you could just go back to working five days a week  or you could moonlight a couple extra shifts.

Like  your biggest fear is your present day reality potentially.  So just get after it.

Dr. Michael Hersh: Yes, a hundred percent. You know, a a and this is, you know, so I did not have an entrepreneurial bone in my body. I had no interest in entrepreneurship. I. From the moment I could research a career, knew I wanted to be a physician and never imagined I would do anything else, I didn't want to do anything else, and when I gave myself an opportunity to explore entrepreneurship.

I realized how much I do really genuinely love it. How many, how the different aspects of what I've already learned as a physician and in my medical career  can translate really well to entrepreneurship and. You and I were talking a little bit beforehand that physicians are frequently told that we are bad at business.

 And it's because we were never trained in business. And that being said, we are very hardworking, we are incredibly driven, and we are really great at learning.  And we just need to give ourselves the opportunity to learn these things. And, and speaking to the other point that you were making about, you know, afraid to get started.

It's also important to be aware that that physicians in general are high information decision makers. We wanna know it all before we commit. Right? Which is okay, and maybe not the. Perfect fit for entrepreneurship, where as you get into it, you learn very quickly, like not only do I have to make decisions quickly, but I have to be willing and able to pivot relatively quickly.

I also have to be willing and able to fall on my face and fail publicly and sometimes very expensively.  Then pick myself back up and decide, but I really want to figure this out and keep going. And those are not skills that we are taught in medical education and medical training, but they are imperative for entrepreneurship.

And it doesn't mean you can't figure these things out,  it just means you have to want to and it's hard and you gotta lean into it.

Dr. Alex Schloe: Yeah, I agree. You know, if you can go through medical school, residency, fellowship, you can do all those things, you can absolutely be an incredible investor, entrepreneur, whatever your passion may be. You know, I think back to like the first time I interviewed a patient and how terrible I was at talking with a patient, you know, and all of us can relate to that,  and I mean, it was bad.

 And think about just after a year, you know, like think about the beginning of third year to the end of third year, how much of a huge difference that was in terms of your ability to just  talk with a PA patient, connect with them, and like write a note.  Unbelievable. In just a year. And it's the same thing in entrepreneurship.

It's a different mindset shift. It's a different way of thinking, but.  We're all type A, driven, focused, motivated people, and we can totally  do whatever we put our minds to. We've already done that and proven that. It's just flipping, flipping the script and being willing to learn something new and, and, and get after it and take action.

Dr. Michael Hersh: A hundred percent. Yeah, I couldn't agree more.

Dr. Alex Schloe: Yeah. Michael, if you don't mind me asking, is there a physician or a story? Obviously we don't need to name names, but is there a, a story of a physician you've worked with who has really had that mindset shift or, or shifted their career in a way that's inspired you or something that you think would be helpful for folks who are listening?

Dr. Michael Hersh: Yeah, I mean, I think. We can, we can definitely talk about like, my personal experience and, and the shifts that I've been able to make. I mean, I work with physicians every day who come with all, all the things, right? All, all the, the issues with getting their charts done on time with. Medical malpractice litigation and the stress that comes along with that, with the stress of just balancing career and home life and, and just trying to be present at home with their families and turn it off enough so that they can be home and struggling with self-compassion for.

You know, not getting it right all of the time, right? Like these are some of the most common things that come up. And one of the other big things that comes up all the time for physicians are things like. Looking for a sense of belonging and community, which is something we all have so much in our training and our medical education.

And then the moment we get out into the quote unquote real world, it all seemingly disappears and, and these were literally. All of the things that I was personally grappling with. You know, as I entered into physician coaching, and, and I'll be honest with you, you know, it was an investment that I was making, a financial investment, and I decided when I was doing that, like if I'm gonna make the financial investment, I am all in.

And so I took. I treated, I treated that physician coaching program like it was my job. I showed up to every call and I did the work. And when I started to notice the changes, everything shifted and, and I will say that those changes I've already outlined to you, my life from the outside looks pretty similar to what it did five years ago.

Some of those changes weren't huge changes, and they really shifted a lot of my day. And one of the stories I tell. All the time is that as a proceduralist, as a gastroenterologist, we were trained in fellowship that you start doing procedures at seven 30 in the morning. You end at five o'clock at night.

There are no lunches, there are no breaks. If you are ahead of schedule and you can find some food, you can put it in your mouth. But other than that, you just keep going and you can do that for a while. I did it for a very long time, and then after I found physician coaching. We were talking about what my days are like and how frustrating they can be, particularly in the afternoon.

And somebody suggested that I take a break and I was like, I can't do that. That's like, nobody takes a break, nobody eats lunch. Like we just keep going and if we do eat lunch, we're like running. And I was tasked with taking a 30 minute break during my endoscopy day. And I went to the manager of the GI lab and I was like, I'd like 30 minutes for lunch break.

And they told me, you can't do that. That's gonna totally mess up our staffing. Like, well everybody else, like they need to take breaks and if you take a break it's gonna mess everything up. And I said, I'm gonna take a 30 minute break and maybe you can coordinate. And everybody else in the room, the anesthesiologist, the tech, the nurse, everybody else gets a break.

I'm gonna take 30 minute, a 30 minute break. And you know what happened?  Nothing. Everything went totally fine. It didn't impact staffing. In fact, Mo most of the time they're able to coordinate the tech and the nurse sta lunch break at the same time as my break. And it actually helped. And then that became an example that other physicians could also have a lunch break in their days.

Then other people started it. Now, not everybody takes a lunch break, and that's totally fine. Not everybody wants one. For the people that did it was kind of this huge opportunity, and now my afternoon, it's so much better and the staff in my room really appreciates that I'm not hangry for the second half of the day.

Dr. Alex Schloe: Yeah. That's great. And I, I think the, the big thing there too is like you had the courage to be like, I'm doing this and I'm sticking to my guns and, and, and I'm taking this break.  It's crazy, you know, you know, to, to folks who aren't physicians who are listening to this, it's,  they're probably like, what the heck?

You mean you don't get a lunch break and you like work through all your lunch? It's like, yeah, absolutely. Like,  and, and my office in, in my clinic in the Air Force, they, like, everyone had an hour lunch break and we had an hour, which was never lunch break. I think I ate lunch like.  Twice where I wasn't working the entire time through.

And, and so can completely re relate to that. And I think that just having some time to  rest, recharge, eat pee poop,  really important  as docs and like we know that but we are sometimes unwilling to stand up for ourselves and be like, yeah, I'm taking this break. So  You know, and, and go from there.

So that, that is a great, great story.  Are there any other things that you were challenged with or any other changes that really  are top of mind for you that were instrumental to kind of  pivoting in terms of how you felt in regards to your career? I.

Dr. Michael Hersh: Yeah, you know.  I think the other big piece for physicians has been.  Really centers around control, right? Like, we love control, right? Like we love to be on top of like everything and know that all of the risk factors are, are controlled for and everything is good.  And I think what a lot of physicians have have noticed in modern day healthcare is this loss of control and this loss of autonomy and this, requirement that we seed a lot of control and autonomy to other people. And I think  there can, we can, I can fall into victim mode feeling like everything is stacked against me and that there's nothing I can do. And I think one of the biggest changes for me has been finding ways to focus on the things that I can control because.

As one physician practicing I can't change the healthcare system at large. I can't change how the major health insurers operate. I can't change a lot of things about my day to day, but I can change a lot. There are things that I can do that make my day better. And again, lunch was one example. Another example was putting guardrails on my day, deciding that this is when my day starts.

This is when my day ends.  I do not overbook patients. I do not double book patients.  I have a wait list. If I get a cancellation, I will get people in sooner. And so these are the kinds and, and holding people accountable to these things, right? Like and so. Again, I can't control everything, but when I started controlling the things that were in my purview, it really does help and it really does feel like, you know, that I, that I know that I'm gonna get out a little bit earlier on, say Tuesday, that I'm gonna be able to pick my kids up from school and walk them home and eat dinner as a family.

Really changes everything, you know? So I may not be able to do it on Thursday, but I know I did it on Tuesday.

Dr. Alex Schloe: That's awesome. Yeah. Those,  those little changes and those little wins can, can be huge and really give you something to look forward to.  I personally was, was on the the frame of mind that it was like. I'm leaving work at work and home at home, and I'm gonna do everything I can that  that's possible to try and not mix the two.  And that was really big for me. And, and the other thing that was really helpful for me was  as soon as I got home from work, I  took my phone and I left it in the kitchen. It was like, Hey, this is time with family. Like, there's nothing on my phone, there's  no phone call. That's gonna be more important.  Than my family.  And, you know, and that's what it was until the kids were in bed and I had some time to connect with my wife or do a podcast really late at night.  But that just that's just how it went. And so I think putting those guardrails up  is really, really important. 'cause it's easy to get kind of sucked into more and more, more.

There's always gonna be more patience to see, and more notes to write and things to do. And things to read.  And so figuring out what that balance is can be really important. And  I think learning that earlier in your career is really important to help for longevity and medicine going forward.

Dr. Michael Hersh: Yeah, and you know, we talked a little bit about physician personalities, and actually I have an upcoming podcast episode about being addicted to achievement because  for a lot of physicians. Right. Achievement does become an addiction, right? It becomes, it's a dopamine hit. It's this thing that feels really amazing and we get really good at being successful and productive.

And we do get addicted to that feeling and, and recognizing it, and noticing how do I remain goal oriented and productive. Not succumb to the constant need to be looking at my phone, answering, you know, text messages, things like that. It's, it's hard, it's uncomfortable. I am not great at it. Right. And I'm a work in progress, right?

Like I am a lot better than I was and I still have a long way to go. But it, it's a huge priority for me to work on figuring that out.

Dr. Alex Schloe: Yeah, I agree.  Thanks for sharing that. Let, let's pivot if you don't mind, to kind of work-life balance and presence. 'cause we are  really talking about this and, and I think it's really important as a full-time gastroenterologist, as a physician coach, as a podcaster, but also. Husband and dad, what are some things that have been helpful for you to stay present at home, not carry that work stress into family life?

We hit on a few, but is there anything else that's been really helpful for you in your journey?

Dr. Michael Hersh: So you were, you were talking about how to disconnect from your phone. I love Do Not disturb and I have it on most of the day. Because then you can be intentional about when you're looking at your phone and when you're not. And if it's constantly pinging in your pocket and you're, you get, get this urge to, to look at it.

I think that's, that's been one thing. It's also making sure that I know where I need to be and when. Right. So if I know that school pickup is at 3 45 and that I want to be there when, when my kids get outta school, like. It's on the calendar. It is the thing that is happening Then, then it's also right.

'cause I think when we talk about balance you know, a lot of times work-life balance, we use to shame ourselves, right? Most of the time it comes up because we're doing a really bad job at it, right? When we're talking about work-life balance, it's, it's this thing that we're talking about, this that.

Seems impossible and other people seem to have it and I want it and I, I think for me it was learning to reframe that balance doesn't mean everything is equal at all times. And so, you know, I am not always at bedtime and I don't make every band concert. I make a ton of effort to be at as much as possible, and I think finding some grace and self-compassion for the fact that I can be at some things, but not everything really is what shifts work-life balance and presence.

Because if in my mind I'm constantly thinking about how I could be doing it better. I'm not even present when I want to be present. Right? And so it's, it's really figuring out like, I am here because this is where I'm supposed to be right now. And when you can reframe it like that, then you don't ever feel like you're missing out on something.

Dr. Alex Schloe: That's a great way to frame it. I, I love that. I, I think about  the book, the One Thing by Gary Keller and, and Jay Papasan. I'm sure you probably read it, but there's an analogy there, and I, I may be getting the instrument wrong, but he essentially is, is talking about. Either glass, a glass ball in a rubber ball and you're like trying to balance all these different balls.

Or honestly, they might be plates, I can't remember, I read it a long time ago, but essentially you're like spinning all these plates or juggling all these balls, and you have the glass ones and the rubber ones, right? And, and the rubber ones are the things that you can drop. Maybe that's.  Walking in patients, maybe that's double booking, maybe that's whatever it may be, right?

You can drop that rubber ball and it's not really gonna be a big impact.  But that glass one is really important, and that's family. And that's the things that  really,  you know, faith, the things that really drive you and motivate you, that's the ball that you never want to drop. And so I think it's,  it's helpful for folks to sit and think about, okay, what's my  rubber ball?

What's my glass ball? What things can I drop right now? And it doesn't really matter because it's gonna bounce back up.  And what things can I not 'cause it's gonna shatter and it's gonna break.  And so I think that's a, a helpful framework, which is, which is what you were getting at as well.  And then having the grace to realize that, hey, occasionally maybe you are gonna drop that glass ball, but  maybe we can, maybe we can put the pieces back together over time.

Dr. Michael Hersh: Yeah. And, and if you like metaphors there's one that I really, I like to use for physicians who are in particular being hard on themselves with work-life balance. And I will say so we start our medical training. As like a glass of milk. And then medical training is like the chocolate syrup, and we just spend 10 years mixing that glass of chocolate milk, right?

And then so we get through those 10 years of training and we get on the other side of integrating our work and our life, and then we're like, okay, I want my life back. Right. And, and trying to get our lives back is like trying to extract the chocolate syrup out of the chocolate milk, right? We can do it, but it's probably not a good use of our resources.

And so how do you figure out what to do? And, and this is what we're really talking about here, which is boundaries, right? So boundaries is, how do I wanna pour. This glass of chocolate milk into the different aspects of my life. How do I want to control my time, my effort, my energy so that we don't forget who we are and, and our training and our careers, and how do we make it work in all the other aspects of our lives?

Rather than focusing on like, I don't want this anymore. How do I use it? Like, how do I want to be intentional about it?

Dr. Alex Schloe: Absolutely. I'll continue with the metaphor of  how do we also keep the chocolate milk full, which is maybe with physician coaching.  And so with that metaphor slash pivot,  you launch a new podcast, better Physician Life.  How can folks listen to that podcast? And if folks are interested in  working with you, connecting with you, learning more, how can they find you to do that?

Dr. Michael Hersh: Well, thank you so much. This has been a great conversation. I've loved chatting with you. So really everything is called Better Physician Life. So you can find the podcast better Physician Life, how to get Unstuck in your medical career, anywhere you listen to podcasts, apple, Spotify, YouTube, all the places.

And you can also head over to my website better physician life.com. Bunch of resources there, free resources. I wrote blog posts for a year. I've got some worksheets that physicians can use to really figure out how to create the life that they are looking for. So it's all available there and you can check out the, the podcast there as well.

Dr. Alex Schloe: That's awesome. We'll be sure to include the links in the show notes there as well for folks.  And do us a favor. If you're listening to this and you, you gain some value, go to Michael's podcast, better Physician Life podcast. Give him a five star rating and review. Listen to some episodes. That's the only way  that podcasts grow, so really appreciate that.  Michael, is there any last parting shots, any last bits of advice that you wanna  share before we wrap things up?

Dr. Michael Hersh: I, I'll just say to all the physicians listening. Like you are so hardworking, so dedicated. You've worked so hard in your life to get to where you are. There is a previous version of you who dreamed of the life that you currently have, right? Couldn't have even imagined all of the things that you have in your life right now.

So don't forget that version of you. And also how can you set up the next version of you for success, right? Like looking forward, like what could you be doing right now to create the life that you want 10, 15, 20 years from now? And when you can think about your life in that way, how you are setting yourself up for success, anything is possible.

Dr. Alex Schloe: That is a beautiful way to wrap things up.  Dr. Michael Hersh, thank you so much for coming on the Physicians and Properties Podcast. It has been awesome.  With that, we'll go ahead and sign off.

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