How To Balance Medicine and Entrepreneurship With Active & Passive Real Estate Investing with Dr. Jennie Eckstrom

 Welcome back to another enlightening episode of The Physicians and Properties Podcast with your host, Dr. Alex Schloe.

💡 What if you could build a legacy through real estate and entrepreneurship—without sacrificing your passion for practicing medicine?

In today’s episode, Alex is joined by Dr. Jennie Eckstrom, a family medicine physician, real estate investor, and the founder of Uncluttered Mind, MD. Jennie shares how she built a thriving real estate portfolio spanning commercial properties, land development, and short-term rentals—all while leading one of Montana's largest independent primary care clinics.

Through this engaging conversation, Jennie talks about mindset shifts, her family’s influence on her journey, and how real estate investments have allowed her to create financial freedom and time for what truly matters.

🔥 What you’ll learn:

• From Medicine to Real Estate: How Dr. Eckstrom transitioned from a career in family medicine to building a successful real estate portfolio
• Total Return Thinking: How to assess investments beyond just the cash flow—consider appreciation, tax benefits, and debt paydown
• The Legacy of Real Estate: Why Dr. Eckstrom invested in her medical practice building and how it became a valuable asset
• Short-Term Rentals: Why Maui was the perfect location for Jennie’s vacation home investment and how to make these properties pay for themselves
• Entrepreneurial Mindset: How to balance a clinical career with the entrepreneurial journey and what leadership really looks like
• Time Freedom: How real estate investing gave Jennie the freedom to step away from clinical practice for a month-long sabbatical in Maui

🔥 Key Takeaways:

• Real estate can be a gateway to time freedom, allowing physicians to practice medicine because they want to, not because they have to.
• Learn to look beyond cash flow—factor in total return thinking when making investment decisions.
• Building a legacy is not just about wealth but about creating space for life’s meaningful experiences.
• Investing in commercial properties, land, and short-term rentals can complement your medical career and open doors to financial freedom.
• The Importance of Mindset: Understanding when to take a step back and reassess your path is crucial for long-term success.

⚠️ Friendly reminder: This podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be construed as legal, tax, or investment advice. Always consult with your CPA, attorney, or financial advisor before making any investment decisions.

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Transcript

Dr. Jennie Eckstrom: If you go out and buy an investment property, whether that's a. Multifamily space or single family home or a commercial space, your biggest liability is vacancy.

So if you know that you can secure that tenant and you know you're not going anywhere,  there is a lot of potential to do that  or, or to benefit from that. And then finding all of the expenses that you can allocate to that building.

Dr. Alex Schloe: Welcome to the Physicians and Properties Podcast, the show where we teach you how investing in real estate can give you the freedom to practice medicine and live life how you want. Doctor, doctor, doctor, doctor, doctor. Now here's your host, Dr. Alex Schloe.

 Hello everyone. Welcome to another episode of the Physicians and Properties Podcast, the show where we explore how physicians can create freedom,  impact, and legacy through real estate and entrepreneurship.  Today I'm joined by Dr. Jennie Eckstrom, a family medicine physician, a real estate investor and founder of Uncluttered Mind, md.

 Jenny's built an incredible portfolio of spanning commercial properties, land development, and short-term rentals, even in Maui, all while leading one of Montana's largest independent primary care clinics.  This is gonna be an awesome conversation about mindset and legacy, and we're really looking forward to it.

So let's go ahead and jump in. Dr. Eckstrom, , how are things going?

Dr. Jennie Eckstrom: They're going great. Thank you.

Dr. Alex Schloe: Awesome. Awesome. Well, thanks for joining us. Yeah, absolutely. I'm glad we got the technology things figured out and looking forward to this conversation. Let's go ahead and get started. If you don't mind, take us back to what first drew you to medicine and kind of how did that journey evolve for you over time?

Dr. Jennie Eckstrom: Yeah. You know, I was one of those kids that just wanted to be a doctor. I can think of myself even back in grade school, and  I'm the first physician in my family, but I grew up in a family where. Really, there wasn't anything that we couldn't do. And so when I decided that  I wanted to be a doctor, they were like, great.

Initially I was gonna be a pediatrician because I loved kids. And then some point along the way I realized that at 18 they would go and find a new doctor.  And I didn't like that idea at all. I really. Thrive and love relationships and found that family medicine was that space. So I'm actually privileged to be back and practicing in a town that's 15 minutes from my childhood home so that that dream really has come full circle.

Dr. Alex Schloe: That's amazing. Yeah, I, I was the same way. Similar story to you. Always wanted to be a physician. Actually always wanted to do family medicine and  had, had parents that didn't even go to college, but they motivated me and kind of pushed me to succeed and did, did everything they could to kind of point me towards the right direction.

And it turned out okay.  I think it turned out pretty good. So thanks mom. And. And it's been, it's been awesome having the opportunity to do family medicine. I, I think back I, I was talking to a pre-med student today, actually. I was thinking back in, in internship. I remember one day I delivered a baby and then I was in clinic and I saw a hundred year old who fought in World War II and, and was flying in, in over France.

He got hit with some shrapnel and then I went from that to see like a two week call. I'm like, this is crazy. Like this is family medicine. It's so cool  to have that broad. Depth and be able to see such a wide range of patients. So I do love that.

Dr. Jennie Eckstrom: Yes. And then you compound that with like being back in your, your hometown and taking care of  teachers that that taught you and friends, kids and all of that. So it's, it's just those full circle moments. Never, there's never a dull day for sure.

Dr. Alex Schloe: Yeah, I can believe that. That's awesome. What was it like when you first came back, when you first started practicing in your old community?

Dr. Jennie Eckstrom: You know, it was sort of interesting. I think when you have a dream that is that long in the making, I think we build it up to be something that we. Really not knowing what it can be. We have all of these preconceived notions and so you know, obviously getting to come home and at that point I really loved obstetrics and I was delivering babies.

And so when you talk about like that, taking care of birth to the, to the grave, that was exactly what I was doing and really carried on that way. You know, I came in as a junior partner into a well-established independent practice. And was just excited to be there, to be a part of it and to be contributing.

And I think somewhere around year six or seven when I came out of that fog of,  by that time I'd had two children and. I think you wake up and you say, wow, is this what this is gonna be for the next however many years? Because so much of of my life had been working in four to six year segments of the next thing and the next thing.

And I think once I had my kids. I was like, well, I think this is what I wanted to do, but is this really what I wanna do? And is this all there is? And so it was really interesting to be confronted with that thought and to reexamine what I thought my life in medicine would be and measure that against what I thought it was and what it actually was.

Dr. Alex Schloe: Yeah, I think we all have that arrival fallacy at some point, and we,  we get there and we're standing on top of the, the mountaintop of practice of medicine and we're like, wow, is this it? Or is there another mountain I need to climb? And, and what does that look like? And, you know, oftentimes that mountain is an electronic medical record that hates me.

But other than that it's just part of the process.  Was there a moment Jennie, was there a moment when you realized I need to start building something beyond my clinical income? Was there a point for you when you started to think more about real estate or entrepreneurship that you remember?

Dr. Jennie Eckstrom: Yeah. You know, it's interesting. I was actually born into real estate. My parents when they moved back to Montana just before I was born, my mom was a teacher. My dad had a physics degree. So when they moved to the valley, my dad started a construction company. My mom was a teacher for a while and then dabbled in real estate and ultimately they built their portfolio out of that.

And so we were there, their Scott monkeys on the construction site, we were flipping condos and apartments that they owned. I, you know, drove. Hung drywall, laid tile, like all of the things. And so that was just a part of what, what I did. And so I think. In my practice, you know, we I, I was fairly debt adverse.

I wanted to get my student loans paid off and we did that pretty quickly, living pretty modestly.  And then because of how I had seen my parents grow their portfolio, it was a very natural inclination to look around and say, okay, how can I start to invest in what I own or invest in where I'm working? And, and at that point the independent practice I was a part of, they owned their building.

And I was paying rent, and I think the rent had gone up and it was a little bit painful when the rent went up. And so I knew that if I could take that. Fixed expense and turn it into an asset that would then be able to continue to grow. That I could see the value in that. And I remember taking that proforma to our CPA at the time and he couldn't quite see it.

He didn't understand that idea. That I like to call total return thinking, right where you take not only. What is the cost of your investment, but what you gain in appreciation, what you gain in offsetting a fixed expense what you get in debt pay down, and what you get in tax benefits. And so I could see, even though I don't think at that time I had those words, I could see that by investing in that medical practice building, how that would serve me for years to come.

Because again, I intended to come and stay. And put in deep roots, and now 20 years later, that was a really great first venture into real estate investing for me.

Dr. Alex Schloe: That's awesome. Yeah. Total return thinking. I like that. That is a TRT that I enjoy talking about a little bit more than the, than the typical TRT in family practice. I'm sure you're getting inundated with that as well. But, that is really cool to, to think about it that way. And I think a lot of times the tax piece is missed as we're talking about real estate in general.

And, and what does that look like? What does that depreciation look like? What does maybe doing a cost segregation study, accelerating that depreciation, taking those you know, losses against your real estate income or against your active income if you have rep status or short-term rental loop.

Or something along those lines. So it's really cool that it sounds like you were really introduced to this from your parents, which is awesome.  And then were, were willing to take the step.  It it, correct me if I'm wrong, it sounds like that first step was really the, the practice that you were working in.

Is that correct? Your first step into real estate investing.

Dr. Jennie Eckstrom: That is correct. I mean, besides our own homes, we had, you know, we had purchased a home in  residency and then sold that and bought our, our home in the town that we'd moved to, but beyond our primary homes. Yeah, that was the first, the first investment, which was a huge at that point, at, at that point I called it my second home with a view of the ski hill because I couldn't afford that view otherwise.

Dr. Alex Schloe: That's awesome. That's awesome. You're probably spending just as much time in there sometimes as well as you're, as you're home.  Well, let's talk about, I feel like now's a good time to talk about what that may look like to own the building that your practice is in or, or to own that space. For folks who are listening to this, what would you tell them if they're thinking about, well, hey, maybe that's an opportunity for me to also own the real estate that I practice in.

 And what would you say to them?

Dr. Jennie Eckstrom: Yeah. You know, I think it's really interesting to think about what that looked like for me now. Almost I think it was 13 years ago versus now.  One of the things that I think is so important is to understand where we have expenses and where we can turn those expenses into an asset.  So that was probably the, and, and I think that's pretty easy for anyone to understand.

So and we've tried to do that not only in my medical practice, but my husband owned his. His own business as well.  And we have purchased a condo for that because you know that you have that expense.  So why not allow yourself to be on the other side and be the landlord as well, and take advantage of that.

You're gonna have the most opportunity to, to really leverage those advantages if you're the sole owner, because there's some, there's some additional tax checks and I'm really not terribly well versed in that because they haven't really been applicable to me. But in our, but in this practice, it has been, it's been a very valuable asset for us.

So knowing where you're gonna have a fixed expense and where you can turn that into an asset.  The other piece is knowing that the value of that anchoring tenant. So you know that if you go out and buy an investment property, whether that's a. Multifamily space or single family home or a commercial space, your biggest liability is vacancy.

 So if you know that you can secure that tenant and you know you're not going anywhere,  there is a lot of potential to do that  or, or to benefit from that. And then finding all of the expenses that you can allocate to that building. So I think my, my husband's business is probably a little easier to do because we, we own that business exclusively.

So we try to run everything, whether the the, the tenant pays for.  All of the taxes, all of the maintenance, the HOA dues in addition to their rent. And we really try to push, push that rent as high as the market will bear.  In the medical space you have, if you've got tenants, you have to be a little bit careful that you're not violating any stark provisions that any tenants that you may have.

And in our medical buildings, we do have other tenants.  We've expanded that, that first space that I bought. Into, we expanded to consolidate the upstairs condo. So there's about 40,000 square feet in that building and we have multiple tenants there.  And then five years ago we expanded into an adjacent community and have another 35,000 square foot building that we converted into multidisciplinary clinic space.

So, looking at not only it's my expense and, and I am turning that into an asset, but then also recognizing  the potential draw you may have as that anchoring tenant.  So as a, US being a primary care clinic  with urgent care that has recruited pharmacies, it's recruited physical therapy, counseling services, chiropractic, vision Clinic. I'm just trying to think of some of our tenants multi-specialty clinics from, from the hospital. So just thinking about what kind of gravity you can create as well.

Dr. Alex Schloe: That is so cool. What a, what a cool way to kind of look at alignment and, and really kind of transforming that whole space to. Build like a, you know, almost a pretty comprehensive medical campus, which is amazing. So that is, that is so cool to see, and it's gotta be really cool for you to look back over the 19 years, or 13 years since you  purchased the real estate and see how much that has changed.

That's, that's really, really awesome.

Dr. Jennie Eckstrom: Yeah, and that hasn't been without some heartburn. At times, we were in the midst of  the expansion into the adjacent community and deep into that renovation when COVID hit and had to have that idea of like, gosh, do we see. Stall this now. Do, we don't know what the certainty of medicine looks like, 'cause the whole world shut down and we, we ultimately decided to push through and, and that was a good thing for us.

But so there hasn't, it hasn't been without uncertainty at times, but but you're absolutely right. Seeing how our clinics have really become sort of, that. That anchor in the community and bringing additional services especially with our expansion, bringing specialty services that previously had not been in that community.

And at times when patients were saying, gosh, it's too, I don't, gas is too expensive. I can't drive the 10 miles to your clinic. Like, wait, we've got one that's two miles from your home. Or in some people it's five blocks from your home. And so that's been incredibly satisfying.

Dr. Alex Schloe: That is so cool. Yeah, absolutely. What a way to just really transform care for the community and bring those resources in. That's, that are much needed. That's awesome. Let's talk more about your real estate journey. So  what what came next after the practice or what, what has been happening in regards to real estate and investing for you coinciding with all this awesome stuff that you're doing with the practice?

Dr. Jennie Eckstrom: Yeah, so after we had invested into the medical building, then my husband and I looked to really try to replicate what my parents had done.  They had started with a, you know, single family home that was zone duplex and my father used his  contractor skills to expand that. And so we're like, we could do that, we could make that work for us.

And we set out with a goal we were going to purchase.  A hundred thousand dollars property once a year for 10 years and at the end of 10 years we'd have a million dollars in a real estate portfolio and that would be great. Only to look around and realize that in the resort community and that I'd grown up in had changed dramatically in the 30 years since my parents had done had done that method.

And so in retrospect, we should have still bought those houses. The ones that we looked at that we got a little scared. Again, we didn't recognize that idea of total return thinking at that time.  We could just see that. The what we were gonna pay for rent or for our mortgage payment. We couldn't quite see how the rent would offset that.

Not taking into consideration what appreciation would have done to the market. So we did not purchase homes at that time.  And at about the same time, my husband I think this is our 10th, is that our 10th. 15th wedding anniversary trip and our 40th birthday. So we'd like to, to say that he was going through a little bit of a midlife crisis and we took a trip to Maui to celebrate our anniversary and that milestone birthday.

And  he shared with me at the time, he's like, you know, I'm really,  really would like to buy a condo in Maui. I was. Well, let's look at it. I mean, I was always game for a for a deal. I'm like, it's gotta pay for itself and we need to have a six month cushion in the bank, but I'm happy to look and so. Over a couple of months, we were looking, we learned about things like condo tells and condo tell financing, which is different than conventional, like short-term rental financing at that point.

That was in 2017. So the short-term rental loophole didn't exist.  The, cost segregation studies weren't happening. 'cause if you remember, I think that started in about 2018, if I believe, 2018 or 2019.  And so at that point, we were just looking for. A property that could be a part of our legacy.

We'd both grown up in families that had had summer homes and, and knew what those type of properties could do just for memories and bringing family together. And so that was really what we were looking for. And if we could have somebody else pay for it and rent it when we weren't there, and we knew that if we picked the right property, it was likely to appreciate.

And so we put all those things together and found a really cool community in, in West Maui. And  and purchased the condo, actually sight unseen.  We had, this was, we had our realtor walk through with an iPad and do an iPad tour.  We'd spent some time in West Maui at that point. And, and so I knew looking at the property, I could, I could just sense what that property would be and so we purchased that property.

Put it immediately into a rental pool. And again, at that point  didn't know anything about, about really looking at a proforma for a rental property. I just had sort of that gut instinct that this would work.  And I was content with, I think when I finally went back and looked at the numbers, it was like four or 5% return, but it was appreciating and it was a place that we went and spent time with our families.

We ultimately bought a second condo because.  The one was not big enough for our parents to be with us, so we bought a second one and it was also in the rental pool. 2019, we did a sabbatical there for a month. I took a sabbatical for my medical practice and  my husband's family came for a couple of weeks.

We had a week on our own. My family and all my nieces and nephews came.  So just. Getting to live out that, that legacy that we had hoped for again, didn't anticipate things like a pandemic and o the challenges of owning condos in the middle of the Pacific. Didn't anticipate historic fires that destroyed Lana, didn't destroy our properties, but  severely impact the island and continue to impact the island.

 But it, it has been, it's been very cool. So that, that was really our next phase in investing and, and we've really gotten to enjoy that for a myriad of reasons, both financially and with our family.

Dr. Alex Schloe: That's awesome. Yeah. What a, what a really cool. Property. What a cool story. And I think, you know, a lot of times we talked on talk about return on investment and all those metrics, et cetera, but sometimes we need to talk about ROE or like return on experience and, and that experience that you've gotten to have with your family like that, that's probably priceless.

That's probably worth maybe cash on cash return being five or 6%, who knows? But you're,  you have a condo or two in Maui that you're. Bidding paid by someone else, and you're getting to have these amazing experiences.  What was it like for you to take a month off of medicine, do that sabbatical? What was that like for you?

I can't imagine a better place to do that than Maui. That sounds fantastic. I.

Dr. Jennie Eckstrom: Yeah, you know, my partnership, that was always an opportunity. There are a lot of limiting beliefs of  what would happen if I stepped away from medicine, what would happen to us financially if we did that.  Again, you know, I've. My husband and I both work, but certainly, you know, I've had more  income potential and have carried things.

But we had continued our fairly modest life. We're still living in the same home that we bought 20 years ago when we moved to town. And,  and my husband would sometimes say, you know, I don't have my dream house. And I said, well, I have my dream mortgage and you have condos in Maui. So  I think we're okay.  So, but.

I had long wanted to do that. I had my if, believe it or not, my first sabbatical was when my second child was born. That's what it was, considered a sabbatical because clearly I didn't work right.  So I, yeah, don't ever call maternity leave a sabbatical, but  but we knew that we wanted. We knew that we wanted to do that.

I wanted to do it in the summer before my girls got got too. Too old. And initially the plan really was just for us to do it as our family, just our nuclear family.  Then as, as we thought more it just sort of naturally evolved. And and so that time again, that was in 2019, never knowing what would happen just a year later.

 It just was so precious and I think. It, it's funny that as I, as I talk with other physicians who have also taken time like that,  it, it's crazy to me how,  how often it comes up of like, we didn't know what the next year would bring. We didn't know that, you know, some people have lost a parent or  again, like the pandemic or just that ability to be together.

 So it was a little stressful to leave, but I had a great a great practice. I had a, a physician extender  who really covered things for me, so I was truly off. I checked out that month that I was gone, and it was fantastic, and it went by way faster than I thought it would.

Dr. Alex Schloe: Yeah, I could believe that. I bet the first few days were probably kind of like, oh man, what do I do? What do I do? And then  once you were able to really settle in, that was probably so nice to be able to have that time.  We, we took some time off when I got out of the Air Force and kind of transitioned over to Direct Primary Care.

We took  a couple months off and as I mentioned earlier, before the call, we went on a camping trip to. The Tetons and Yellowstone and Glacier and had an amazing time. Went camping for about a month and it was so nice. And  it's funny how like the first few days you're like, I feel like I have all these things to do.

And then  you realize like the, the earth keeps spinning and life keeps going on. And what really matters are the people around the, the fire pit with you  at night. And that's what matters most. And so it was a really, really great time and a great experience.

Dr. Jennie Eckstrom: Yeah, and you won't ever regret that. You won't ever remember the days you weren't in clinic,  but you will remember those, those memories that you had and the crazy stories that happened in them.

Dr. Alex Schloe: Yeah, absolutely. I love that. Well, let's  transition a little bit and let's talk about your brand Uncluttered Mind, md. It's a great name. What does it mean to have an uncluttered mind? What does that mean to you?

Dr. Jennie Eckstrom: So it's actually a little tongue in cheek because  I have, at any given time, I have so many things that I want to do.  You know, even as we've just sort of talked. In this last 30 minutes or so, just about how I love real estate. You, you joked about the the EMR initially and  you know, the IT piece and innovation is, has always been a part of what did, in fact, when I first joined my practice,  I was the one who implemented our first EMR and helped us transition from paper to to the computer system.

And. I used to call all of the things I wanted to do, manic hobbies.  And then I realized, you know,  you can do all of the things and, and who gets to tell us what we, that we can't? And so really uncluttered mind was this brand that brought together my love of real estate.  My  love of really understanding the mindset that that really makes us tick and how we can really leverage that for our success.

And then really helping other physicians find ways to practice medicine in ways that fill them up.  I love hearing that you're in DPC.  I've obviously in in an insurance space practice, but  just really finding those ways that when we hit that arrival fallacy. What is it about medicine that we love? You know, I think in the last several years we've seen people maybe transition away from medicine, especially as the pandemic made employed physicians feel like maybe their, their careers were less.

Less secure. And so they looked at things like real estate or passive investing or other side hustles. And then at the end of the day, one of the things I'm finding is people are like, well, I still really love medicine.  I spent,  you know, for most of us, 11 to 15, to maybe even more years,  really honing this skill  and it's not necessarily something that we wanna walk away from.

So really what Uncluttered mind is doing is. Helping physicians find ways to thrive in medicine and practice in a way that fills them up. Whether that is  in like a DPC like you're doing, whether that's in a insurance based practice, whether that's in a micro practice working only a couple of days a week,  really realizing.

What is possible for us?  So I've teamed up with a, with a friend of mine who is in DPC, Dr. Jessica Mendelson, and we actually have a sort of an intro course, it's called the Independent Physician Launchpad that that we're getting ready to launch next week. And it's sort of a survey course of what does independent practice look like,  what are the options that are available to me?

What kind of things do I have to think about?  It's a very high level course. And then. The other piece I have is clinical business framework, which is for that more mature practice, really understanding  the business behind medicine.  You know, we go, we see our patients, we, we code as best we can,  but we still need to have that business acumen. We need to understand how to look at our lines of service and make sure that they're profitable. We need to know when it's time to expand and maybe when it's time to contract. So all of those pieces, and I get to do that under this beautiful umbrella that I've called Uncluttered Mind.

That is awesome. That's awesome. I don't know about you when you were going through med school, but  I didn't learn anything about business or entrepreneurship in med. school. And so it's so awesome to have resources like yourself that are,  that are teaching folks, teaching physicians, Hey, here, here are some things that you didn't learn in med school.

Here's how to run the business. Here's how to think about your practice and, and that's ultimately probably gonna lead to  either scaling of the business or figuring out how you can. Practice medicine, how you want to about by working through those steps and going into the coursework and so forth as well.

So  that's really cool. And, and thank you for doing that.  What are some of the biggest mindset blocks that you've seen with physicians that you  have experienced? When you talk about things like money or freedom or entrepreneurship, what are some of those mindset blocks that you've experienced or, or  talked with others about?

Dr. Alex Schloe: Yeah, I think there are a couple, I think. One is that idea that we don't have time, that we don't have time to stop and think critically about what we're doing,  that we're so caught up in the day-to-day of.  You know, we, we  hit clinic at maybe seven 30 in the morning if we have time to prep things before our first patient and.

Maybe we have a few minutes to, to grab a bite to eat before we dive back into the afternoon. And then we're trying to close charts and reach out to the specialist before the day is done and then race home to our family only to wake up and do it the next day.  And so really giving ourselves that luxury of time.

Dr. Jennie Eckstrom: I don't know if you're familiar with. Keith Cu Cunningham, he wrote a, a fascinating book called The Road Less Stupid. It says Lessons from the Boardroom.  But one of his concepts that he brings up is this idea of thinking time,  where you actually allocate time to just sit and think about your business.

And I've really tried to do that over the last year and it's amazing what comes up, what insights come up, and so really giving ourselves time to sit and think about our business.  In addition to just doing the business, and that may mean that we have to,  you know, cut back on patients, but that is such a, a foundational piece that, that is missing right now.

And so that, that,  that time scarcity and really taking control of that. What other ones? I think the idea that if we are working harder, that increased revenue means that I'll make more, I'll take more money home.  And so that, that mindset piece of. Revenue, not equaling profitability or not always equaling profitability.

So how do we really look at what we're doing and how do we tease out what we're doing in our practices so that we can critically look at at with the value of, of, of our time is and  really understanding that as a core metric so then we can make decisions from that space.  I think the other mindset, and this was one that, that I really struggled with,  is understanding when we have just that ongoing inner dialogue, I think we all tend to be performers.

You know, we're performing and really trying to do the best that we can to help our patients, to help support our practices, to help support our community. And sometimes that is driven from an unrealistic. Inner dialogue and so just really becoming aware of that dialogue and  maybe not everyone has that, but the folks that do have it, we have to be able to identify it and call it out so that it doesn't hold us back.

Dr. Alex Schloe: That's great advice. Yeah. I think a lot of us have that inner dialogue, whether we admit to it or not, or whether we have labeled it or not, just being the high achievers that we are. You know, I, I think you really hit the nail on the head in terms of that time scarcity and, you know, feeling like we just have to go, go, go, go, go so much during the day.

And I notice really those times that I force myself to be more still or to think. It's like, it's really crazy what you can come up with or. The changes that you can think about or, you know, if there's something big in the business that I need to think about, just taking some time to like, be quiet, be still, and think about that is, is huge.

Which sounds so simple, but then you're like, oh man, now I've had this time to really focus on this problem and think through how am I gonna best solve that? And then ultimately that leads to some time savings down the road and you kind of get that time back. At least that's what I've experienced from that perspective.

So it's been, it's been really cool. I once heard.  There's this, this gal, Stacy Gray, she's amazing. She's got a company called Organized to Scale and she said that you really should have like a day of deep thinking every week just in regards to your business. And that might look like, Hey, I'm just gonna set aside like 20 minutes or 30 minutes and then kind of continue to ramp that up.

 But it's really helpful to at least have some time that you can think that you can be creative, that you can dream. For your business and, and it's crazy what you can come up with and the problems you can solve and the time that you can then buy back  down the road. So thank you for hitting that. I don't think that gets talked about very much.

Dr. Jennie Eckstrom: Yeah. Yeah. And again, I will tell you that these are all things that are in progress for me. And I think if all of us recognize that, like we're always evolving and always progressing and so, yeah. But it's amazing what what our brains will come up with when we give ourselves just that space to, to think, because we know more than we know.

Dr. Alex Schloe: Right. Absolutely. It's almost like an uncluttered mind is a really good thing.  So I love, I love the name and, and what you're doing there  which is awesome.  Well, as we kind of wrap things up, I did wanna talk a little bit about leadership. So you're still a, a clinical leader. How have you been able to balance that role of being a clinical leader, leader?

Clinic with investing, with coaching, with being a wife with being a mom, how, what are some things that you've figured out has been helpful from a balance perspective for you?

Dr. Jennie Eckstrom: Yeah. I will tell you that that has also been a journey for me as well.  So when we go back to that sort of, that seven year itch that I had, where is this all?  Like where do I find meaning in what I, what I am doing right now?  I really found myself chasing different leader. Opportunities, whether that was chief of staff at the hospital or the  chief medical Information officer at the hospital, or different opportunities.

And one at one point my husband sat me down and he said, do you wanna be with us? And at this point, our girls were little, and I, I broke my heart  because of course I did.  I just didn't have any sort of concept of how I, and I think it was trying, it was searching for significance. It was really chasing  that that need for validation, which now I've really recognized it for what it is.

 But I didn't know how to balance that at all.  And and so that really started what I would call my mindset journey of really trying to understand what made me tick, how I could show up. Effectively in my practice for my patients in the exam room in my now almost 25 year marriage with my husband and raising our daughters.

And so at times I've done really well and at times I look back and I wish I'd made different choices. And I think that's true for all of our human journeys. I guess the lesson that I've learned in probably the last six months is really starting to recognize where my efforts in leadership bear the most fruit, because I can't be a hundred percent in every area.

I just can't and none of us can. And so really trying to be cognitive of cognizant of that and treating. I'm gonna make a Taylor Swift reference, but treating our energy for the precious resource that it is, because it is, we only have so much time. We only have so much energy and influence. And what happens, you know, we already know the 80 20 rule that like 20% of our efforts get 80,  80% of our returns.

If you take that one step further, what is it? 1% of our efforts gets like 50% of our returns. So where can I find that 1%, where I can put my efforts that have the most potential to gain return? And that's really the leadership journey. That I'm on finding the things that only I can do where my zone of genius, my expertise is the only one there.

There's so many things, and you know this in, in entrepreneurship,  there's so many things that we can do, but at one, at some point we have to say, should I be doing 'em? Is this the thing that I should be doing,  or is there something else that I can be doing with this time that can bear more fruit? And that's really the journey that I'm on right now, is to go from that 20% to that 1%.

So

Dr. Alex Schloe: Well, we are on the same journey. Yeah,

Dr. Jennie Eckstrom: That's awesome.

Dr. Alex Schloe: Yeah, yeah. You said it's changed how you've shown up. 

Dr. Jennie Eckstrom: Yeah. it's changing how I'm showing up and, and how I'm showing up in my, in my practice and, and how I'm showing up in my, my own businesses how I look at, at investing opportunities. So yeah, it's just, it's been a very rewarding journey and I, and I look back over the last four or five years and I hardly recognize sort of where I am now compared to where I was, so,

Dr. Alex Schloe: That's amazing. Yeah, it is really cool to take that time to look back. Know, to to, to look back up the mountain and climb and see how far you've come and kind of live in that gain mentality instead of the gap. So yeah, I, I love that.  Well, what is something that you're passionate about right now? Or what is something that's coming down the pipeline that you're excited about?

 Dr. Jennie Eckstrom: Yeah. You know, I, as I, as I look and see where I have the potential for impact, the thing that I'm really excited about now is really connecting with. With independent physician owners across the country, both people who are doing it and people who are looking at it as a possibility. And you know, over the last several years in this growth journey, I've gotten the opportunity to connect with so many people.

It's one of the gifts of the pandemic was connecting with people online and then getting to meet them in person. And so, as I briefly mentioned before, both the independent physician launchpad.  That we're doing to help physicians see what's possible for them in independent practice. And then the clinical business framework, which is my coaching, really a peer group program that's gonna launch in January.

Right now I'm in the middle of a beta with a small group of, of clinics, and it's really. Exciting to see the pain points, to see the winds and to know how we can  can bring that to a larger group. I mean, as you know, independent practice can feel fairly isolating. We're sort of islands on our own, especially in the last 10 years when the hospitals bought up all the practices around us, which is sure what happened in our community.

 And so now to see that resurgence and that. Reclaiming of our space in caring for our patients and, and just the sheer number of ways that we can do that.  That's what's really lighting me up these days.

Dr. Alex Schloe: That's awesome. Yeah, I can feel that excitement as you're, as you're talking about it. That's, that's fantastic. Jennie, how can folks re. Out to you if they want to connect, if they wanna learn more if they want to join the cohort when it goes live in in January, how can folks do that?

Dr. Jennie Eckstrom: Yeah, so the best way to, to get ahold of me is I have a website, uncluttered Mind, md. And then I'm on Facebook under and Instagram on the same names.  We also have a Facebook group independent Physician Launchpad specifically for,  for that cohort. And email at jenny@unclutteredmindmd.com.

That's J-E-N-N-I-E. So I would love to

Dr. Alex Schloe: We'll be sure to include those.

Dr. Jennie Eckstrom: Thank you.

Dr. Alex Schloe: Yeah, reach out to Jenny. This has been awesome, and we'll be sure to include those links in the show notes folks. So go ahead and click those. Reach out to Dr. Eckstrom and see how she can, she can work with you and help you get that uncluttered mind. We all need a little bit more of that.

Jennie. Well, this has been awesome. Thank you so much for your time. Thank you for what you do for your community, what you do as a family physician, what you do you know, as an entrepreneur as well, and for helping out all the other physicians in independent practice and beyond. So I really appreciate your time.

Thank you so much.

Dr. Jennie Eckstrom: Yeah. Thank you so much for the opportunity. It's been great to chat with you.

Dr. Alex Schloe: Yeah, you as well. Thank you. Well, with that, it's been Dr. Jenny Eckstrom and Dr. Alex Schloe with another episode of the Physicians and Properties Podcast signing off.  

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