From Direct Primary Care To Real Estate With Dr. Amy Couturier

🎙️ 𝗪𝗲𝗹𝗰𝗼𝗺𝗲 𝗯𝗮𝗰𝗸 𝘁𝗼 𝘁𝗵𝗲 𝗣𝗵𝘆𝘀𝗶𝗰𝗶𝗮𝗻𝘀 𝗮𝗻𝗱 𝗣𝗿𝗼𝗽𝗲𝗿𝘁𝗶𝗲𝘀 𝗣𝗼𝗱𝗰𝗮𝘀𝘁 𝘄𝗶𝘁𝗵 𝗵𝗼𝘀𝘁 𝗗𝗿. 𝗔𝗹𝗲𝘅 𝗦𝗰𝗵𝗹𝗼𝗲.

💡 What if real estate was not just an investment strategy… but a learnable skill that could help physicians create more freedom, flexibility, and long-term wealth?

In today’s episode, I’m joined by Dr. Amy Couturier, a general pediatrician, entrepreneur, former direct primary care physician, and now real estate professional based in Traverse City, Michigan.

Amy’s journey started long before medicine. Growing up, she watched her immigrant parents build wealth through real estate, collect rent checks, work on properties, care for tenants, and model what it looks like to take risks, work hard, and build something meaningful for your family.

In this conversation, we talk about physician identity, entrepreneurship, the emotional difficulty of stepping outside the traditional medical path, using physician loans creatively, evaluating investment properties, and why physicians need trusted advocates when buying real estate.

🔥 𝗪𝗵𝗮𝘁 𝘆𝗼𝘂’𝗹𝗹 𝗹𝗲𝗮𝗿𝗻:
 ✔️ How Amy’s early exposure to rentals shaped her view of money, risk, and ownership
 ✔️ Why her parents’ immigrant story deeply influenced her work ethic and entrepreneurial mindset
 ✔️ How Teach For America helped shape her path into pediatrics
 ✔️ The challenges of running a solo DPC practice as a physician, wife, and mother
 ✔️ How physician loans can become a powerful real estate tool
 ✔️ What physicians should look for when evaluating short-term rental and investment properties
 ✔️ Why having a physician realtor can help protect doctors from being taken advantage of

🔥 𝗞𝗲𝘆 𝗧𝗮𝗸𝗲𝗮𝘄𝗮𝘆𝘀:
 ✅ Real estate is a learnable skill, just like medicine
 ✅ You are not your profession, and your identity can be bigger than your job title
 ✅ Physicians do not have to stay trapped in one version of success
 ✅ Starting slowly can reduce risk and help you build confidence
 ✅ Physician loans can offer unique financing opportunities if you know where to look
 ✅ The right property should match your goals, risk tolerance, and desired lifestyle
 ✅ Great real estate decisions start with clarity, not just chasing deals
 ✅ A trusted realtor who understands physicians can be a major advantage

If you’ve ever wondered whether it is okay to love medicine but still want more freedom…

Or if you’ve ever thought about real estate but felt unsure where to start…

𝗧𝗵𝗶𝘀 𝗲𝗽𝗶𝘀𝗼𝗱𝗲 𝗶𝘀 𝗮 𝗴𝗿𝗲𝗮𝘁 𝗿𝗲𝗺𝗶𝗻𝗱𝗲𝗿 𝘁𝗵𝗮𝘁 𝘆𝗼𝘂 𝗱𝗼𝗻’𝘁 𝗵𝗮𝘃𝗲 𝘁𝗼 𝘀𝘁𝗮𝘆 𝘀𝘁𝘂𝗰𝗸 𝗶𝗻 𝗼𝗻𝗲 𝗽𝗮𝘁𝗵. 𝗬𝗼𝘂 𝗰𝗮𝗻 𝗽𝗿𝗮𝗰𝘁𝗶𝗰𝗲 𝗺𝗲𝗱𝗶𝗰𝗶𝗻𝗲, 𝗯𝘂𝗶𝗹𝗱 𝘄𝗲𝗮𝗹𝘁𝗵, 𝗰𝗿𝗲𝗮𝘁𝗲 𝗼𝗽𝘁𝗶𝗼𝗻𝘀, 𝗮𝗻𝗱 𝗱𝗲𝘀𝗶𝗴𝗻 𝗮 𝗹𝗶𝗳𝗲 𝘁𝗵𝗮𝘁 𝗳𝗶𝘁𝘀 𝘆𝗼𝘂𝗿 𝗳𝗮𝗺𝗶𝗹𝘆, 𝘆𝗼𝘂𝗿 𝘃𝗮𝗹𝘂𝗲𝘀, 𝗮𝗻𝗱 𝘆𝗼𝘂𝗿 𝗴𝗼𝗮𝗹𝘀.

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Transcript

Dr. Amy Couturier: Having a physician realtor is really unique because as a doctor, I don't know if you've ever felt this way, but you feel like you're always worried that people are taking advantage of you.

Dr. Alex Schloe: Welcome to the Physicians in Properties podcast, the show where we teach you how investing in real estate can give you the freedom to practice medicine and live life how you want. Doctor. Doctor. Doctor. Doctor. Doctor. Now, here's your host, Dr. Alex Schloe.

Hello, everyone. Welcome back to the "Physicians and Properties" podcast. Today, I am joined by Dr. Amy Couturier. She is a general pediatrician who left traditional medicine to build a direct primary care practice, and then she later helped build a concierge medical practice. Now she's focused full-time on real estate.

She's helping others, especially physicians, find deals and invest wisely. She's based in Traverse City, Michigan, and has built a custom home in a fast-growing area, created equity, and is now building a portfolio of investment properties. Amy, welcome to the show. So great to have you on the podcast, and I'm honored that this is your first one, so I really appreciate you taking the time.

Dr. Amy Couturier: Yeah. Thank you so much. I'm excited to dive in.

Dr. Alex Schloe: Absolutely. Me too. Well, for those who are meeting you for the first time, do you mind kind of giving us the short version of your journey into medicine and then from general pediatrics to direct primary care to concierge medicine and now to real estate? So take as much time as you need. It doesn't have to be the short version.

Dr. Amy Couturier: Yeah, I was like, I don't know if I could cover that in a short... Yeah, so you know, my journey started when I was a kid. I grew up with real estate. My-- We had rentals growing up. I remember going to our rentals, collecting physical rent checks or cash, working on houses, painting them with my dad, things like that.

So I was always thinking about real estate and thinking about when that would be as part of my life as an adult. But I wanted to go to medical school, wanted to become a professional in some manner. My parents were immigrants to the country, and having that degree really made me feel that we could do so much more and reach so many more people.

So ended up going to medical school. But I have to say, I was always very entrepreneurial from the start. Even in college, I started a magazine, like forty thousand prints across four universities. Had a team of editors and it just started with like a fun club to socialize and get to know people and ended up sort of becoming a business.

It was nonprofit. And so I did that, and then I ended up going on to do Teach for America. So learned a lot of leadership skills there, you know, thought a little bit more about how I wanna help people in medicine Ended up going to medical school at Michigan State University. Um, spent a year in Lansing, Michigan, and then the last three years in Grand Rapids, where I met my, uh, husband.

Um, so, so that was wonderful. Um, he and I share a very entrepreneurial spirit. Uh, when we got together, we, we would just talk about big dreams, what we wanted to accomplish, and, uh, we were always so excited about that possibility when the time was right. So we ended up couples matching, went to Cleveland, Ohio.

I did my pediatric training at Rainbow Babies & Children's. Um, became a general practitioner. Um, Spencer, my husband, is now a radiologist. Um, we ended up moving to the Bay Area in California, where my family's from, and I took a job with Kaiser Permanente in Northern California. And that was a really cool opportunity because they had just opened a new site in s- uh, San Jose, California, and they were looking for physicians who wanted to, you know, build their practice in this new location.

And, and me being new, not really having a patient panel, I was like, "Yes, this is great. I can be an entrepreneur again. I can, you know, tap into those leadership skills that I've kind of put aside for a while d- during medical school and residency." And, uh, that was a really fun experience of how do we build a practice, uh, within a big system, you know?

But it was really fun to just think about how we would operate together as a, a team of five physicians there. So I learned a lot. I did a lot of leadership, um, in terms of immunizations, asthma, um, just a lot of business kind of leadership as well, uh, really from the start of my, uh, attendant life. Um, yeah, and then we...

So then we moved to Michigan. We decided to, um, move here where Spencer's family is and build roots, uh, raise our kids in an area where we're, uh, surrounded by nature, and it feels, um, like a, a wonderful place to live and also raise a family, so we decided to move here in 2020. Um, but know- we had known about the move in 2019, so we actually bought land on a physician's loan.

Uh, barely got qualified, actually. Was turned down by the first bank, and then ended up having to scramble at the last minute to get funds or 10% down, um, on the land. And we wanted to build our first home. We were renting. We didn't have a primary home at this point, and we wanted to get right into a, a custom build.

So we bought land on the water- Um, and it was, it was beautiful. It's, uh... And so we decided, you know, but then COVID hit, so a year later we were getting ready to break ground and the cost of everything was just out of control and unpredictable. Um, that is like a whole nother story for a different day.

But we decided, we got through it took two years to build and finish the project, and since then the real estate market in Traverse City has climbed tremendously as natio- nationwide we, we've seen that. Um, but especially here. And now we are ready to think about real estate, uh, from an investment standpoint.

Dr. Alex Schloe: is

awesome. Uh, what, what a great summary, and, you crushed it. That was, that was amazing, and your journey ha- has been incredible. I'd, I'd love to pull on a, a few threads though from what you described that I'd be remiss if we didn't, we didn't talk about. Um, the exposure to rentals as a kid and, and being out there and collecting the checks and painting the buildings and all those sorts of things, w- do you think that was intentional from your family in regards to that exposure, and how do you think that impacted your entrepreneurial spirit?

Dr. Amy Couturier: Oh, yeah, absolutely. Um, I think my parents' intention was just to show us the value of hard work. They wanted to show us how, uh, that having good relationships with their tenants would pay off in the end, that it was important that, um, they're taking care of your property. There's a sort of like honor to that.

And, um, so I picked up on this, this level of respect that you would have for your tenants, , which, you know, is I think unique. And then two, just the work ethic. You know, that it's, it's not always easy, that when things go wrong it's okay, um, that taking risks is okay and worthwhile oftentimes. And yeah, they, they're incredible people. You know, they came to this country with no money, uh, worked odd jobs, saved money, couldn't speak English, got into real estate and

Dr. Alex Schloe: uh, you, you

said that they, uh, immigrated here and, um, they didn't have much money, and then that's when I lost you.

Dr. Amy Couturier: Uh, they immigrated here, um, from India and, you know, with no money. Saved money on the side doing odd jobs, um, and bought, uh, property pretty early on, um, in Chicago and then in California. So maybe by the time I was a kid, I think we had two or three, like, townhouses that my parents owned.

Um,

Dr. Alex Schloe: That is awesome. Yeah, I'm always-- You know, I have a five-year-old and an almost two-year-old, and always, you know, thinking about ways that I can expose them to entrepreneurship. And, uh, so it's always exciting to hear, you know, different stories of folks who had that exposure and learn, you know, from parents who did it and did it well.

And obviously it worked for you given your, uh, entrepreneurial drive, um, going forward. My five-year-old, Jack, he's already, like, all about making money, almost

maybe too much. Like, we have some chickens. He, like, sells the chicken eggs. He's done lemonade stands, like all the above. It's, uh, he definitely has the entrepreneurial bug for sure, and so I'm excited to see him, uh, turn into a little businessman.

But it's always, it- it's always helpful to hear different stories about how folks got that exposure and how we can help, you know, raise our kids to have that same drive. Um, and so thank you for sharing that. And you mentioned Teach For America. I've had some friends who have done Teach For America, and it was completely life-changing for them. What was that like for you? What was your experience in Teach For America like?

Dr. Amy Couturier: Yeah, I, I stumbled upon it actually. I, um, I was looking for a gap year. I wanted to take some time before diving into real estate... Or sorry, not real estate, into medical school. And, um, so I decided that a program like that would be great. It would give me the time, it would give me lots of valuable experience and, you know, you're helping kids who need it, right?

So, um, I ended up throwing in an application like the night before the third cycle, and, uh, and then r- sort of realized what Teach For America is all about after. Um, I ended up going for the interview, and I just loved it. I loved the entrepreneurial spirit of the organization, what the work that they were doing.

Um, I just thought it was so smart and helpful and I... Yeah, it was, it was amazing on, on like a big picture level. On a personal level, um, I think I'm still friends with some of my kids actually, um, to this day. But it, it was really, really formative experience, um, getting, you know, having these close relationships with kids who look at you like, you know, you are their future.

You're there to really help them succeed and push forward and that was just really inspiring.

Dr. Alex Schloe: Yeah. It, it certainly is. I mean, I still think back to some teachers I had when I was young that I, you know, still remember like it was yesterday and how much of an impact that I had. And

it was probably also really helpful for you as you later become de- became a pediatrician to understand, you know, the environment that some of these kids were in,

and those social determinants of health probably were much more real having that exposure. And so you realized, like, that probably made you a better pe- uh, pediatrician, I would imagine, having that experience

with Teach For America. 

Dr. Amy Couturier: the reasons why I probably picked pediatrics, right, was probably from that experience, just knowing how kids learn, how they think, the development. I just find so interesting and, um, an opportunity, you know?

Dr. Alex Schloe: Yeah, absolutely. Well, I'd, I'd love to kinda hit your journey through direct primary care, concierge, and your career evolution. What, what kinda pushed you away from more traditional medicine

towards DPC and concierge?

Dr. Amy Couturier: Yeah, you know, I've always had this entrepreneurial leadership drive. Um, we moved here in twenty-twenty and, uh, uh, practices weren't hiring. You know, we-- I think they weren't sure what the future held, how many office visits they would have. It's just the business of medicine was a little bit, um, unsure possibly.

And so I didn't have a place to work for a year, which was fine. I spent the year with my kids, um, in, you know, lockdown and in a new city where we didn't know anybody. I think I had one friend, and nobody knew that I was a physician who had just moved to this area. And I was starting to read a lot online about direct primary care.

And I said, "Well, if I'm gonna try that, if I ever want to, maybe now is the perfect time." Um, you know, we have non-competes and things like that in Michigan, so that was one of the reasons why. Why not? Let's just try and see what happens. And so we decided to open up, um... I decided to open up my pediatric practice, which I think is the first direct primary care practice in the state of Michigan.

Um, this was April of twenty-twenty-one, about a year into COVID. And I, I learned a lot about marketing. That was something new I'd never done before, how to market yourself, um, how to, you know, charge people money, and, and that's not something we do in medicine. Um, so I learned a lot through the online support and other physicians doing the same thing.

It was a, a great way for me to meet the community. I, I made lots of friends really quickly and was able to network quite fast, and it, it made me really happy to live in a place that was really new to me, now knowing that I have roots, that I have my own connections here. So that was really nice. Um- Yeah, that experience, you know, um, there's so much that goes into direct primary care.

But for me, um, it was, it was really great, uh, for a few years. Some of the challenges that I faced were we live in a small town, so I think just the sheer number of clients or patients I would be able to get, uh, felt like there was maybe a ceiling there. Um, the other aspect was I, I lost physician coverage.

Uh, that physician ended up getting a job and, um, I started to sort of do it alone. It was hard to find people to cover. I started really feeling a lot of pressure from being a solo physician. I also was pregnant with our third kid at this time, building our custom home, and my husband had also started a concierge practice.

Uh, so this was about a year in, and I was feeling all kinds of time pressure, financial pressure, and I was the one who needed to be flexible for us, and it was, it was just a lot. And so I decided to actually close it, um, April of '20-- uh, of '25 last year, so about four years exactly. Um, it was bittersweet.

You know, I still miss my patients, my friends, here locally, and I just took some time off in the last few months, um- During this time, I was also helping... So my, my husband also opened up a cash pay concierge medical practice maybe a year and a half into mine. And for a while, um, and that was really great.

We ended up partnering with four other, three other physicians, so it was a group of four of us. We're all friends. We decided, let's just do this together. And so my husband was really, um, working on that. And then, uh, I started to get involved after about a year. They were... You know, there was some struggle in the beginning as to what our services are, how we're gonna have stable income, um, things like that.

And so I started getting involved and I said, "Hey, I just did this. I can help, you know, over here." So I started, uh, doing a lot of the marketing, um, you know, getting clients for the practice, honing down on what our services are, working closely with our physician who had left his job. And I just felt really...

At this point, I started to feel really s- really strong for physicians. You know, they're, they're physicians taking risks, leaving their traditional practices to start a business, a startup company, essentially, and I just felt like we cannot let this fail. Like, I, I did my practice. It w- I, I knew the hardships for me.

I'm not gonna let that happen again. So I ended up, uh, really working hard on that practice for t- about two years, and now they're doing really well. Um, things are great. Uh, they're growing and everything is great. Uh, physicians are happy. We're hiring another doctor there. We brought on a nurse. There's so much excitement.

It's awesome. So I felt that, you know, maybe it's time I can step away, uh, let my husband, kinda take over, the business development and for me to move on to the next, you know, uh, entrepreneurial, uh, I guess business. Yeah, the next thing and, and that would be real estate for me.

Dr. Alex Schloe: That is awesome. What a cool, what a cool journey, and I'm sure that each of those steps taught you a lot about autonomy and ownership and practicing medicine on your own terms. Um, how do you think that's impacted, I guess, kind of your, uh, thoughts amongst risk or your thoughts of kind of stepping away from medicine for a bit?

'Cause I know there's a lot of folks who are listening to this who have probably in the back of their mind thought like, "I would love to start a concierge practice or DPC or take a couple days off per week and, and, and pursue some sort of alternative income stream." What are your thoughts in regards to risk and getting started?

Dr. Amy Couturier: Yeah. And to, you know, and f- that question I get a lot from friends of mine who are physicians. I would say I probably have had hundreds of these conversations over the last few years, and what I realize is for everybody, you know, that looks different, right? So for s- s- somebody, it might be a complete change into DPC and that getting that autonomy back, that time back, the deciding when you're gonna work, when you might not work.

Um, for others, it may just be that they might want to have a passive income stream and not completely up- uphold their life and their job and change everything. So I think that change or this thought about what else could you do as a doctor or as a healthcare professional, I think it looks different for everybody and their situation and their risk tolerance.

And my advice would be a little bit at a time. You know, what is it, if you could pick one thing about your current situation, your job, your life, lifestyle that you want to see improve, um, that's where I would start. And then I would say, "Okay, if it's just money back, I wanna have multiple income streams so I don't feel so financially pressured."

You know, there's, there's lots of solutions for that. If it's about time pressure, um, I think there are different ways to think about that too and to orchestrate, um, what that might look like. So I work with a lot of friends, you know, just casually, socially, um, who, who come to us often because we've built businesses and have, have-- now doing real estate and different things.

They are always asking for advice for themselves and, and that's, for me, that's really empowering. And so that's why I'm also doing this, the work of being a realtor now, actually, um, because I wanna help other people just like ourselves to feel-- give, give them that confidence to buy, um, their first investment or, um, start, you know, developing a portfolio.

Dr. Alex Schloe: I love that. Yeah, that's a, that is a great answer. And, you know, I think the other caveat to that too is, you know, if you're starting slow and you're, you know, working through this and you're generating more and more alternative income or passive income over time, it's gonna give you more freedom and flexibility, let you take some bigger risk. And then worse comes to worse, you can always go back to what you were doing previously. There's no shortage of physician jobs, that's for sure. Um, I, I love that. That is really helpful. I wanted to hit one more thing, um, real quick for folks who are thinking about starting a practice and doing that in partnership,

uh, what your thoughts are there.

Because I know a lot of times in direct primary care, a lot of the stressors that people have is what you mentioned. Um, how do I get coverage? How do I take leave? How do I go on vacation if I have this impanelment who basically expects to have access to me in some capacity at all times? Um, I don't know if you know my journey, but I, I did about six months of direct primary care part-time, which I loved.

Just joined a practice and came on, and I absolutely loved it. For me, I ended up leaving the practice because it was really hard to provide the level of care that I wanted to when I was only there two days per week. And I had patients who really wanted to see me that then needed to see the other doc and vice versa.

And so it just made it a little bit more complicated. So I decided to step away, but I love DPC and it's a great model. But the doc that I was working with, Dave, that-that's something that he struggled with and struggles with now is like, "Hey, coverage. Who's gonna help me cover when I'm going on vacation?"

So what are your thoughts around that, and what are your thoughts around partnership with other physicians to start a practice?

Dr. Amy Couturier: Yeah. Um, it's probably the easiest in terms of a business relationship to just do it solo. Um, I would say being-- there's just so many benefits. You just have so much freedom to make mistakes, to try different things, to not really have to ask anybody. So I, I would say most people might assume that I would've said the opposite, but I think going solo, uh, I think is really nice.

Um, and there are ways to get coverage. Um, there are ways to pay for that. There are ways to just set the expectations with, uh, patients as well. Um, it's not easy. I didn't have an easy time doing that. You know, it's... But it's something that is, is fixable and there's workarounds. Um, and, and same with real estate, right?

There's so many of these parallels. Like, if you're buying a property, okay, if it's not set up well, it's not perfect, it's not cash flowing optimally, there's ways, there's fixes, there's ways to improve all that. So similarly with when you start a practice. But the benefits of doing it with another partner or partners is, you know, you just, um, the liability of your decision-making is a little bit spread out, so it feels, it feels more, um, maybe collaborative in that environment.

It feels that you have two heads, you know, that are maybe better than one, things like that. My advice would be if it's traditional direct primary care, I think I've seen it work really well with just one other partner, um, and where you're really aligned on work, uh, what you want out of it, and what you're both willing to do.

And I think thinking about equality of the work and also the income and the, the business aspect that goes into the direct primary care, those are all really important things to think about. So yeah, um, I think it's, it's probably easiest if you're solo, just from like keeping things simple. But, uh, having people that you can work alongside with is probably the, uh, the sweet spot.

If there's multiple DPCs in an area, then I would say that's great 'cause then you can just sort of trade and partner and help each other. Um, yeah.

Dr. Alex Schloe: Yeah, that's a really great way to do it is find other DPCs in the area and see if, "Hey, I'll cover for you if you can cover for me," and, and work that way, which works out really, really well. Um, A-Amy, let's talk about i-identity. Um, and, and did you, did you have any struggles at all with that as you kinda, you know, pivoted more from traditional medicine and all along your journey into now, you know, it more on the real estate side?

Did you have any struggles with identity?

Dr. Amy Couturier: 100%. Um, still do, you know? I think identity, uh, there's so much when you are a physician, it becomes part of your identity. It's like, "I am Dr. Amy Cuttier." I... The first thing that falls out of your mouth, "I'm Amy, I'm a physician," right? Or whatever it may be for you. And I think that's, uh, it's an important thing, to think about deeply for yourself.

And my advice is, uh, you are not your profession, right? We're all people. We were people before we became doctors, so that's number one. Number two is you can have more than one thing that defines you. And, uh, these are the mantras that I use for myself, you know? These are the things that I tell myself when making big career changes like this, 'cause I get a lot of questions.

Um, "How did you do this?" And, "Oh, how do you feel about that? Do you miss, you know, being a doctor?" And things like that. And I just am always repeating kind of the same sort of values and principles that nothing's permanent, nothing's forever, and, you know, everything is worth trying if it interests you.

And I think creating the, the ideal life, uh, time back, freedom, money back, things like that are... Is, is I feel like everybody should have the freedom to do that, and we should normalize, uh, these changes when they come up, and, uh, we should support one another when, when that happens. So yeah, no, I feel really supported actually throughout all these changes.

My husband's great, and my friends who are physicians and other entrepreneurs, they totally understand, and they're excited for me and want me to help them too. So, uh, I don't think... There is, there is definitely that identity change, but I think if you're surrounded by people who care for you, who support you, then I think, uh, you're gonna be just fine.

And what's the worst that can happen? You can just go back to what you were doing previously, but if you never try, you just never know,

Dr. Alex Schloe: yeah, absolu-- and you only have one life to live and, uh, one chance, you know, at this. And so it's, it's, it's certainly, uh, worth being willing to take a little bit of identity hit to go after your dreams if that's what it is. And, you know, I think the thing that gets lost sometimes amongst physicians and, um, you know, there's, there's a lot like a lot of physician Facebook groups and so forth that like just give such a hard time to people who are, you know, chasing financial independence or investing in real

estate or whatever it is. And, and, you know, I think back to how long this journey was into medicine, right? And to become a physician and go through residency and everything else, like that's a long journey, and things change over time, right? And so it is okay to have multiple different passions, and it's okay to like be a physician and still love taking care of patients, but maybe only wanna do that two days a week while you s- build up this real estate business or whatever that may be.

So, um, there's, there's a lot of haters out there. Uh, and so for folks who are, are struggling with that, don't let that get to you. But man, uh, it kinda cracks me up the comments that people make against physicians who are just trying to think outside the mold and outside of the traditional system.

Dr. Amy Couturier: Absolutely. You know, you're gonna-- no matter what you do, whether you change from traditional practice to direct primary care, or you're in traditional practice and you start a side business, or you buy real estate, or you become a realtor and sell properties, all kinds of, um, opinions that people will have of you.

And again, this kind of goes back to, like, my parents, you know, when I grew up. I always think, um, you know, they came to this country, and they decided to try something, and there is no shame in that. And I think you just have to put-- you just have to know for yourself that I'm somebody who has an incredible work ethic.

I'm ambitious. I, uh, have these skills that I wanna, uh, try to apply for different things. And just because you're not doing medicine doesn't mean that you're not helping people. And I feel like that is something that gets lost a lot. When you are buying properties and you're creating income streams for your family, that helps your family, your partner, your relationship.

It helps you, it helps your kids when they're a-adults, and they-- and you have something, you know, generationally to, to give. It helps-- Like you say, you talk about the giving, uh, freedom later in life. You know, there's always ways to give back, and there's al- you're always helping people. So I think when people say that, um, I think that they're not-- they don't really understand what, what the transition means, and they probably haven't thought deeply about it themselves.

Dr. Alex Schloe: Yeah, those are great points. And I, I also think too about the, like the folks that listen to this podcast,

hopefully, you know, it changes their life in some degree. Um, but then the impact that that has on their family and on their patients and like the number of other people that you touch, you, you never know what that economic wake is or what that, um, transformational wake is of people that you've touched along the way. Um, even going back to like your Teach for America days, I'm sure that there are plenty of kids that you impacted that you probably don't even know,

uh, and that completely changed their lives. And so there's a lot of different ways to help people bottom line, as you mentioned, and, to make an impact on their life. Uh, well, let's pivot into, to real estate. I'd love to talk a little bit more about the physician loan because I think it's a very, uh, a very, important topic and a very beneficial things-- thing for physicians to think about. I've only used the physician loan in the setting of an already built house.

I've not, not used it in the setting of development. So I'd love to hear what your experience was like with that, although it sounds like maybe a, a little bit difficult diff- due to the pandemic and some other factors. Um, but why do you think it'd be beneficial for a physician to consider using a physician loan product?

Dr. Amy Couturier: Mm-hmm. Absolutely. I think it's such a great unlock, physician loans. Um, what banks offer, uh, ebbs and flows with time, right? And supply and demand and the economics of lending. And so when lending gets hard, like maybe times like currently, where there's less activity on the, uh, real estate market, they're willing to come up with programs that incentivize people.

So it's a great time right now, I believe, to look into these programs if you haven't. I feel like you should always kinda know what opportunities you have, to get money. So, uh, what we're seeing around here is, ten percent down, um, twenty percent... You know, not twenty, but fifteen percent down on, even on investment properties.

I have a physician client right now, um, and that's what we were recently quoted, for their case. And so, every bank is also different. You know, the smaller banks, bigger banks, they have different rules and guidelines that they can fall between, fall, uh, within. So I think it's important for you to reach out to multiple.

Uh, when we were building our house, I think I called fifteen banks. I was like, "I want to know, you know, the best product." It makes a huge financial impact. And if you can find a better product, a smaller bank that's willing to help you, I think that's great. That's a great unlock. It just takes a couple phone calls and emails.

Um, so I would advise physicians to look into that. Um, it may or may not help for a second, home or investment property, but it can, um, in some cases, especially if you, uh, depending on how you buy a property. If you're buying it, you know, as, uh, as under your own name versus under an LLC or switching that deed later.

Um, so those certain steps may impact what type of loan that you get.

Dr. Alex Schloe: Yeah, for sure. I, yeah, I love physician loans and, and getting started that way is such an awesome way to do it. There's a lot of no money down primary residence physician loan products available, not typically for new development, at least that's my understanding. But, um, it's, it's a great way to get started.

I typically recommend folks to like think about how you can get a physician loan no money down, and then house hack that house with all your resident mates or some of your resident mates. Um, and then you're getting paid to go to residency on top of your, your meager resident salary. and that can be a really great way to get started and start building wealth or tackling your, um, your student student debt burden as well.

So it's a great way to do it. Um, but that's really cool to hear that there are development options that are available that you could, um, you consider, you know, tapping into. It's amazing to get 10% down on a development loan, um, can be massive. And as you mentioned, there are some investment loan products that may be lower, 10 to 15% down as well, as a physician, because the banks look at us as like, "Hey, you're a physician."

They kind of have that mindset of like, you're a rich physician and, uh, and you're very lendable. And so, um, the banks look at that and see that that's quite favorable.

What tips do you have for physicians who are just getting started in real estate, um, and they wanna potentially pursue, um, single-family rental at-- of some capacity, whether long-term rental, short-term rental, new development? What are your thoughts there?

Dr. Amy Couturier: Yeah, I think a lot of it starts with mindset and goal setting. So thinking about, um, you know, what do you want to accomplish? Is this a, I just want to buy one and see how we feel sort of thing? Or are you on a mission to offset a certain amount of income? Or is this all because you wanna pay zero taxes at the end of the year?

Or is it that maybe you really just want a, you wanna invest in maybe a commercial business, um, where you can have an income stream that way? So I think it always starts with mindset. So when I talk to clients, physician clients, I'm always asking like, "What do you want?" You know, "What is it-- what brought you here in the first place?

Why, why do you feel like real estate maybe could be an avenue for that goal that you're already thinking about?" And then once we get into that, um, I usually advise, you know, what's your risk tolerance and how much are you willing to spend? And, um, and then making sure that the... if, if someone's married, that they have that partnership, you know, th- there's alignment there.

That's really important that oftentimes you see one spouse really into real estate and the other not. So I just double-check that and give some pause. And then once they're ready to go, um, my job is to, you know, find them a property that fits within that, that goal. And, I love that because like being a physician, that gives me practice and that gives me the reps to evaluate more and more properties, and I can't buy all of them.

And so I, I would love to share them, you know, with, uh, with clients.

Dr. Alex Schloe: That's great. What are you looking for typically in a deal, either for yourself or for clients?

Dr. Amy Couturier: Mm-hmm. Yeah, so, we live in an area that's pretty seasonal, so the short-term rental market's nice and strong here. Um, I'm looking for, you know, cash-on-cash returns 10% or more to me that, you know, and every deal's a little bit different. Some places come furnished, ready to go, turnkey. Some need the initial work.

So we kinda do the math, and if it's about 8 to 10%, it's interesting. And then we, um, kinda run a couple different scenarios. Like if you are just really lazy about it and don't put in that much work , you know, and it's like, you know, what's the minimum you could make, you know? And as long as you're not going negative, that's great.

And then two, if you put in some love and some, like, excitement and, you know, you put some joy into, you know, running maybe a short-term rental, how much could you make? And then if you really thought about the numbers and treated it like a real business, what is, what is the max potential? And then, um, being in a short-term rental market, I'm always trying to think of other ways, you know, um, just again, to mitigate some of that risk.

Um, you know, could this be a mid-rental property? Could this be a long-term rental property? Could it be turned into a duplex if needed? C- Is it zoned for commercial use? So properties like that, that have a little bit of a, an out, you know, would be great. Um, yeah.

Dr. Alex Schloe: Yeah, it's great to have those exit strategies and be able to think through that and have those different, you know, scenarios to understand, well, what, what happens worst case

scenario with this home, and how can I potentially put into play one of those exit strategies? So that, that is

great. What, uh, what's life like now as a realtor, and maybe what are some

skills from medicine that have translated into being a successful realtor?

Dr. Amy Couturier: It's scary how certain things are very similar. Um, and these are things that surprise me every day. Number one is patients and clients are very similar. So, um, you know, as a, as a doctor, you are listening, you're actively listening. You are guiding, not telling people what to do. There's shared decision-making.

It's very similar as a realtor. You know, um, being in a supportive role, a guiding role, someone who can help answer questions and be, uh, serve value that way is, is, uh, is kind of the same sort of feelings of how it feels to interact with clients or patients. Um, and then, you know, some of the even leg-legality, um, informed consent, you know, the, the paperwork that we have to sign, the agency contracts, providing informed consent.

It feels a lot like I'm doing a procedure on somebody where I'm going through and I'm saying, "This is what you're signing, and this is what it means. These are the ways in which you can get out of this." So it's a lot of legal information, but it's, it's really important, and that part gives me a lot of, um...

Uh, that makes me really excited to do this work because that's an area that used to give me a lot of anxiety. It's just the, the paperwork. What am I signing? What am I getting into? Now being in it and being the one on the other side explaining these, uh, these contracts, I think is really valuable experience, uh, for me personally, and also for clients, but...

Dr. Alex Schloe: That is great. Do you think that to be a good investor, you need to also be a realtor?

Dr. Amy Couturier: No, I don't think that they're mutually exclusive or, um... Yeah. They-- I think being a realtor for me, uh, I didn't necessarily get my realtor's license to become a realtor. I sort of stumbled into it thinking, "Hey, this is a lot like being a doctor. Maybe I, maybe I'll like it." And so, um, I decided to get into that because I'm a primary care doctor.

I, I like some of the same things. But no, uh, most people, uh, who are investors may get a realtor's license for the convenience, but, um, you don't have to sell real estate to other people to, to have that. And you don't-- Even as an investor, you don't have to have a realtor's license. You can work with realtors who can help you find deals and things like that.

So, um, yeah, there's options across the board.

Dr. Alex Schloe: Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, I've always looked at it from the mindset of like, "Hey, I'm, I wanna hire the, the, the best specialist that I can, uh, that's gonna help me from a realtor perspective." I'm willing to give up, you know, whatever that percentage is, because I'd

rather work with the best. And a lot of times, a really great realtor who really understands the market and the strategy and the goals, they're gonna save you in some way a lot more money than they're gonna make in commission.

And so that can be really beneficial or get you into a house that you otherwise wouldn't have been able to and those sorts of things. So it's certainly worth it to work with a good realtor.

Uh, man, this is... Yeah, 

Dr. Amy Couturier: Yeah.

one more thing I wanted to add there is, um, you know, having a physician realtor is really unique because as a doctor, I don't know if you've ever felt this way, but you feel like you're always worried that people are taking advantage of you. You know? That are they upcharging you because you're a doctor?

Are they not giving you the best deal because they know you're gonna get qualified? All of these factors, and so that, that's another part that's really important to me is not to treat my real-- uh, my, uh, physician clients just like any other client, and advocate for, for the very best deals, um, price-wise and terms, you know, regardless of income and their ability to pay.

So I think that's really important is just that trust.

Dr. Alex Schloe: Yeah, absolutely. That trust, that understanding, the similar mindset, similar way of thinking, like all those sorts of things are so relatable. And you're exactly right. We do, we do get preyed upon quite often, and so I think it's helpful for folks to hear podcasts like this and hear your journey and, um, look at other resources and, and get that financial education and foundation so that they're not taken advantage of.

That's, uh, that's really great advice. Amy, before we kind of wrap things up here, what's something that you're working on right now that you're really passionate about?

Dr. Amy Couturier: Yeah, right now I'm working on a lot of tools that physicians can use, uh, to help them understand deals, to help them with that mindset, um, risk tolerance, to think a little bit more like an investor would. So I'm just building some tools that I've noticed that-

Dr. Alex Schloe: All right, Amy, some technical difficulties. Glad we're able to hop back on. But, uh, what, uh, what are you working on right now that you're passionate about?

Yeah, absolutely. That is awesome. Well, if folks wanna reach out to you, they wanna know more, uh, they wanna potentially work with you, how can they connect with you?

That is great. Yeah, and for folks who have not been to Traverse City, Northern Michigan, it is absolutely beautiful. So make sure to take a, take some time to get out there. Sleeping Bear Dunes is one of our favorites. The, uh, Cherry Festival in Traverse City is amazing. It's, it's a gorgeous place, so add, add it to your list for sure.

Yeah, it really is. Well, Amy, this has been such a great conversation. Uh, I love your, your journey and your message that real estate is, uh, not only incredible for physicians, but it's also a learnable skill that you just have to have those mindset shifts to be able to make that, um, understanding and get that alternative income and make more impact as a whole.

So your story is a great reminder that folks don't have to stay trapped in just one version of medicine or one version of success. You have the opportunity to pivot, uh, if that's what fits your journey, fits your goals, fits your lifestyle. So thank you so much for your time. Thank you for coming on the podcast, and I hope you have a great rest of the day.

Absolutely. Thank you. Take care. And with that, we'll go ahead and sign off.

Hey, real quick, if you're still listening to this, I'm assuming you got value from it, so I need your help specifically. My two-year vision with this podcast is to help one hundred thousand physicians learn how investing in real estate can give you the freedom to practice medicine and live life how you want.

There are two main ways that a podcast grows. One is through ratings and reviews, and the other is word of mouth. If you can please leave me a five-star rating and review on Apple Podcasts and Spotify, as well as send this to one to two friends that you think would get value from it, we can reach the physicians that we wanna reach.

Thanks in advance, and talk to you on the next episode. Please note that the information shared on this podcast is for informational purposes only. It should not be considered financial or legal advice. The views expressed on this podcast are those of the host and the guest, and do not necessarily reflect the views of the Department of Defense or the United States Air Force