00:00
Kathy

Did you know that like human actors, horses also have body doubles? Hi. I’m Kathy, host of Salthaven’s podcast Wild About Wildlife. And if you like horses, you are going to love this episode. 

I continue my conversation with Amber Marshall, star of the CBC series Heartland. We talk a lot about horses and the vibe they bring to the set. We explore whether Amber identifies with her character Amy Fleming, and the insecurity of working in the television industry.

Now, Amber has been around animals her entire life. As a teenager growing up in London, she volunteered at Salthaven for a couple of seasons and now, for the past 17 years or so, she has called the Prairies home. 

00:54
Kathy

Do you kind of go, in the whole world of tv and film, does it go, okay we’re doing this season and then we’ll decide if it gets renewed next season? Is it kind of just one season at a time so that security isn’t necessarily there? 

 1:12
Amber Marshall

That’s exactly right. We are renewed after the season previously airs so, you never know when you're leaving, so you've made this great group of people that are in your life. You know, they are your family and each season that ends we say goodbye like it might be our last. Because we have no idea. And so, we're a pretty close group now that it's not like I would never see them again. So, when we leave it's not so much like well goodbye for the last time, I'm never going to see you again. It's more like well I hope we get to come and play again next year because we all really enjoy it and that's sort of how we leave off every year but it's not this sad goodbye. It's more of this, well we did a really great job this year and I hope we get to do it again next year and if not I'll see ya around type thing because we are friends offscreen as well. When you spend 17 years with people you start to form close connections. 

And it's the hours too and as you know, working with animals there's really no sleep. There's no off time. Animals are round the clock and the thing with acting and television production is that we work pretty long hours. You know we're 14 to 16 hours a day and so you're with these people for a really long period of time. I mean you're with these people more than you're with your actual family, so they do become really close and I think that it's having that, just that, again we talk about communication but being able to talk with the people you work with so that nothing starts to fester or things like that because just like any relationship, when you're with those people for such a long period of time, that's usually what ends up breaking down certain shows because they don't get along anymore, because they've been together for so many hours a day and it's just then things start to kind of bubble under the surface.

So, I think that's one thing that's really special about Heartland is that this group of people really understands each other, really respects each other, loves one another and so when you're spending that time together year after year, day after day you just, you have that appreciation for one another and that understanding. And you know that if there is something that kind of ruffles your feathers you can go in and chat with them and say hey this kind of bugged me like what's going on? And then you just you nip it in the bud and it's good. 

So that's one thing that I think is really special about Heartland is that there hasn't been anyone who has that kind of negative energy towards one another. And usually, right off the bat if there's someone new that comes on board that has a different energy, they usually don't last very long and that's just a product of their own doing because it's like, no this is a very loving environment and if you're not going to fit into that then you're probably not suited for this. So, I think that's something that's very healthy with our show as well.

04:05
Brian

One of the great things about Heartland is well, first of all, it's Canadian which is wonderful. There's great acting in it but most of all to me is the wholesome values that are associated with Heartland. And in the world that seems to be going to hell in a hand cart, those values I think are so important, especially in helping young minds to develop properly and that's where Heartland really has a lot of energy behind it and I congratulate everybody that works with that production for maintaining those values. It's wonderful. It's absolutely incredible.

04:47
Amber Marshall

Well thank you and I feel the same way and I also believe, as you know, that animals are a very healing and calming being so just having horses around every day is something that also creates that energy on set. And so, there's certain shows I've been a part of that don't have any animals. They don't have many kids. It's very fast paced and there's a lot of yelling because that's what the film industry is about. You know it's like we only have ten minutes to, the sun's going down we have to all hurry, hurry, hurry, but you cannot do that with animals because they don't respond that way. And if you do create that energy, you're not going to get the shot because they're going to be all worked up. 

So, I think that's one really special thing about Heartland is that the animals have helped to create that energy on set. So, everybody knows like no, there's no yelling. We don't rush. We will take the time we need and yes, sometimes there are, there are those moments where like we have five minutes to get this shot, like everybody be on your game. But we don't, we don't push it, right? If we're not going to get it, we're not going to get it. Because working with animals, you can't, you can't pressure them. You can't push them because then they're not going to want to do what you're hoping for. So, I think that's something that's really special about our show as well and being able to film outside in some of the most beautiful locations. 

It's almost like an office meditation, right? If you're working in a hectic environment, you're in a downtown office high-rise, you don't even have access to a window. All you see all day is hustle and bustle. That's where your state of mind is going to be. Whereas if you have a home office on a beautiful property and you're looking outside your window and you see the horses running by, that gives you an automatic grounding. It gives you something to check in with yourself and say okay, I can tackle this. You know this is a stressful situation, but I've got this. 

And I think that's the same with our show is that you look around and there's mountains and sunshine and rolling hills of green grass and horses. You cannot help but just feel that breath of fresh air and I think that that's one thing that I never take for granted on our show and when I've done different projects over the years and I immediately notice the energy shift and I say oh wow. Okay. This is, this is different than what I'm used to and at first I kind of get my back up a little bit because I'm like why is everybody yelling and why is everybody running around? And then I remember that there's different environments and different energies for each set but you don't have to jump up to that, right? So, usually how I try to tackle it is instantly I kind of feel that pressure, that stress. I don't feel like myself and I just remember, just breathe. You know, go take a walk for a minute if you need to and I try to use everything that I've learned from Heartland and other things in my life to help ground me in those moments when it can be really difficult to.

That pressure can so easily consume us, and I think it's up to us as individuals to recognize that and say okay I don't feel comfortable in this situation. How do I go forward and make this a better place for me and those around me? And that's something that I've really kind of taken on when I do other projects. To say, okay, you know what, it's all good. Yes, we only have ten minutes to get this shot but we're not going to get the shot if we're all stressed out. So, let's just take a moment. Let's take a breath. Let's do it again and we'll get it. And it's bringing that energy back down, not meeting it, that I think has really helped me in a lot of different situations and it doesn't have to be in the acting world, and it doesn't even have to be with animals. It could be anything you're doing is just learning how to understand the energy that's around you and how to bring it into a space that you enjoy and feel comfortable and not stressed.

08:51
Kathy

I'm chatting with Amber Marshall a former Salthaven volunteer as well as the star of the CBC show Heartland and Brian Salt, the founder of Salthaven. Amber, not everybody has seen an episode of Heartland. So, can you give us an idea of the premise of the show? You've mentioned there are animals involved. But maybe help familiarize the show to people who haven't seen it.

09:18
Amber Marshall

Yeah I think I like to go back to a metaphor that one of my co-stars, Graham Wardle used to always say because it does capture it. For those who haven't seen the show I would describe Heartland as a really good home cooked meal because it's something that when you're watching it, you feel good. You feel satisfied. And then after you feel even better. It's just one of those things where it's like, it's nutrition. And a lot of times, especially in this day and age, there's a lot of content on TV that makes you feel uneasy or, when it's over, you're constantly thinking about it in a negative way and I like to think that Heartland does the opposite. You know it, it gives you something to just take that deep breath of fresh air and feel like, and it's not like there's not conflict in the show. There's definitely conflict but it's usually always resolved. And it's resolved in a way that you can understand in a family dynamic so that if you're going through something similarly in your life, you can say, you know what, I was really stressed about that and I saw that those characters were really stressed about that. But I love how they handled it and I love how they came together in the end as a family and got through it. And I think that that is something that's so important for viewers of all ages. 

You know it's not just a show for children. I have people that come to me that are anywhere from age five to 95 that say, you know, this show has really helped me through a lot. It's helped me grieve or it's helped me overcome some internal turmoil that I've had or things that go on in our lives where we know we're not alone and that these things happen to a lot of people and by experiencing those through a television show and seeing how those people are able to work through that and to come together and to get past that I think is one of the most important things about the show. 

And then of course there's horses involved. So, anyone who loves animals and horses and there's always a story each episode that involves a horse that is either injured or needs healing of some kind or maybe just needs a new purpose and my character goes through and identifies that and helps work with the horses and that's something that's been really special for me because I get to work with horses every day and be on a television show.

11:42
Kathy

And yeah right you play the role of Amy Fleming right? So you've said what 17 - 18 years you've basically grown up with this character. So, how closely do you find that you as a person connect with the character?

12:00
Amber Marshall

I believe that myself and my character have kind of merged together over the years and that's one really cool thing with a show that has this much longevity is that the writers, they get to know me, and I get to know my character. And there's, there's kind of that overlapping that happens just naturally because, for myself, I do live on a ranch. I have horses and cows and dogs and cats and birds and all kinds of things and so it's almost like I'm training for my role every day because I wake up I go out and do chores. I experience a lot of the same things that my character does and so when I go to set and I'm able to dive into those stories and yes, they're all fictitious stories, but the writers will look at things that happen in my life and say oh that's really cool. Can we use that as a story? Or oh, I saw what you did with that horse. Can we use that? And so that's where I say that life kind of imitates art and vice versa because the more I live this life, the more I am you know a ranch girl in Alberta, the more that my character makes sense to me and the more I can make it believable. So, I think that's one thing that has been right from the beginning has been such a blessing for me is the fact that I was so close to my character in the beginning, so it wasn't it wasn't a huge transition. You know it wasn't like I was a downtown Toronto girl who had never seen an animal before and got thrown out into the hills of Alberta with all these horses. 

I got my first horse when I was ten. I had a couple horses when the show began so I was already kind of immersed in that world. And I knew how to ride. I was comfortable around them and I loved being out in the country. So, I think for me, it just was an easy transition and easy fit and every day, I'm learning. And every day my character's learning and so things that my character learns I get to take into my own personal life and things that I learn I get to take into my character.

13:57
Kathy

And how different is it working with horses, having chickens, having cows compared to when you were at Salthaven and interacting with wildlife like owls and hawks and eagles and snakes?

14:17
Amber Marshall

I think that there's a general rule of thumb when being around animals and that is reading them, understanding their needs and what really makes them tick because there's some animals that are going to be aggressive right off the bat but that might just be out of fear. But you have to recognize that. Because it doesn't matter if it's a dog, a cat, an owl, a rabbit - if an animal's fearful and in a situation where they feel they need to protect themselves, well that could be that could be a fatal mistake for you right? And it doesn't matter if it's a pet or wildlife or anything like that you still have to be able to recognize those sometimes subtle gestures and things that animals give off. And I think working with wildlife really helped me kind of understand those cues and different things that animals would do to give you a warning. And once you understand that, you're like okay, I just need to give you some space. But that happens with our pets too and I think there's a lot of people out there that have dogs and cats and horses and whatever else and they don't understand those cues and that's when accidents happen. That's when kids get bit or people get bit or something happens because they didn't understand, and they didn't respect those cues. And so for me, having horses and cows, I mean they can be very dangerous when given a reason to be. They're a very large animal and sometimes they don't think about it. You know if they're to lash out and kick you, to another horse that just might be ouch that hurt, but to a human that could be a broken limb or something worse. And so I think for me, it's just understanding and respecting their boundaries, their space and then giving them what they need as well because when you are in care of these animals, take right now for an example. We have a big freeze out here in Alberta. It's minus 40. It's very cold and the horses and cattle they are outside, and they have shelters. They have lots of straw and bedding in their shelters. And I think a lot of people humanize their animals and they say, oh they must be so cold out there. The poor things, they're suffering. But then I look at all the elk that are coming and eating all my hay every night and I say but they're outside right? They're outside. They don't have blankets on. They don't have any more access to anything than my horses do, and they seem quite happy. Like, I was watching them the other night and then I went and chased them away because they were eating all of my very expensive hay but, it's one of those things where you say we can't always put human traits or human ideas into our animals right? We have to know what's best for them and they will give you signs when they're too cold. They will give you signs when they're injured. But we can't just say okay they must be freezing because I'm freezing when I'm out there, because sometimes that's almost worse for them if you bring them into the hot barn, well now you've disrupted their whole way of adapting to the cold. 

So, I know a lot of people that are like oh they're freezing I just have to bring them in and warm them up. Some situations that is needed, but for the most part then you're dealing with they get different types of sickness because of going from hot to cold and things like that. So, it's just recognizing what each individual animal needs and then you know, I have my dogs in the house because they go outside, and their paws freeze up and they're holding their paws. So of course, come in. That's a different story. But I think the biggest thing is just knowing what the needs are of our animals and helping them through each situation the best that we can.

17:58
Kathy

And so that kind of leads me into my next question and it's about the animals on set and you kind of alluded to it earlier that you know we only have so much time to get this shot and when an animal is being uncooperative and just has no interest in doing what you want it to do in that particular shot. How is that generally handled based on everything that you've said so far?

18:24
Amber Marshall

That's why we always have more than one. That's funny, people always say I love Spartan, he's wonderful and I say yes, we have 20 of them! And we do that to protect each individual animal because you're right, just like kids sometimes animals just don't want to do what we want them to do and that's fine. And we don't want to pressure them into doing it either and so for each animal character on the show, there's always at least two horses that play that character and they're matched the best that we can do. You know if it's a black horse then we take it as close of a match as we can and if it has a white star or something we do put makeup on to make it look as much like the other horse as we can.  But that's the biggest thing is that they don't really understand what we're doing. They have an idea and most of the horses that are there every day they're like, okay these humans are weird. We have to do the same thing over and over again and they want me to do this and I don't know what they're doing but okay. But animals are patterned right? They understand. Okay, if I have to run into this specific spot with a pylon like a cone which we use for the horse's marks, they know they have to run back to that same spot every time. And a lot of times the ones that have done it time and time again are like, oh there's my mark and they'll just walk right up and stand at their mark. But then sometimes they get bored or they get frustrated or whatever, they're having a bad day, then we bring in their double right? We bring in somebody else, because we don't want to have to put that pressure on them. 

And each specific horse character has different things that they're supposed to be able to do. So, let's say in one of the scenes we want a horse to look like it's frightened or it's rearing. It's misbehaving. Well, we have a specific liberty trained horse that comes in to do just that one shot. So, it might just be a rear. And we have a trainer that's there and this horse has a rearing que, just like you would train a dog to sit, this horse has a que, and the trainer will stand there and we'll set it up and we'll have the shot so it's just for that one moment the trainer asks the horse to rear, the horse rears. It goes down and if it looked good we don't have to do it again right? It's easy peasy for that horse. And then, when we go back into the scene and the horse has to stand there for 20 minutes, then we bring in the horse that loves to just hang out and stand there. So, each specific horse has skills that are just suited for what they need to do so that we're not trying to push them. We're not trying to ask for something that's out of their capabilities. 

And then we notice too, like if a horse is getting frustrated, it's like okay, no, he's done. We'll go put him back. You know, just give him some water and hay. He can have a timeout and then maybe later on he's ready to come back and work. But I think the biggest thing, like we talked about, is recognizing when they're done. When they don't want to do this anymore and it's the same with children. And we work with a lot of children on set and it's the same thing, you know that you don't have a huge window to get the material. We usually only have, okay, we know their attention span is going to be good for about 20 minutes and then maybe not. So, let's try to rehearse, rehearse, rehearse without the kids there or without the animals there. So, we know exactly what we're doing so that they don't have to be there for more time than they need to be. And then once we're all ready, once the cameras are set up and that the adult actors kind of have an idea of what they're doing, what they're saying, where they're going, then we can bring in the animals and the kids and it usually runs a lot smoother that way.

21:54
Kathy

That’s Part 2 of my conversation with former Salthaven volunteer Amber Marshall.

Part 3 will be out in mid-August, and in it, Amber offers some advice on how we can all better communicate with the animals in our lives – whether they are on a farm or our cats and dogs. Amber also talks about what keeps her busy in the off-season when Heartland takes a break, and then we have a little bit of fun with a round of quick fire questions, including the superpower Amber wishes she had. 

If you liked this episode, make sure to share it and subscribe. That way you will never miss a future episode of Wild About Wildlife. Thanks so much for tuning in.