Episode 3: RIP Book Report: Midlife, Unbossed & Unbothered

Once upon a time, we were going to read a book every month and talk about it like responsible grown women. That time has passed. We aren't the Disruption Sisters for nothing!

In this episode, we rip up our old homework, cackle in the face of expectations, and confess that all we really want is to talk about everything else—midlife awakenings, late-night obsessions, weird dreams, ancient wounds, crone energy, and the art of giving zero f*cks.

#crones #feral #feralcrone #menopause #genX 

Transcript

From Book Club to Feral Podcast

Deborah 0:02

Welcome to the Feral Crone podcast , a place of free Wait . The Feral Crone what ? The Feral Crone podcast what ?

Karen 0:11

happened to book club ? What happened to book club Debra ?

Deborah 0:16

I don't like homework . I don't want to do it .

Karen 0:20

Who read the book we were going to read ? Oh wait , I did .

Deborah 0:25

You were that one in the library and you were really hard to live up to . By the way , you were the sister , the big sister , who was like the perfect student , and I came to find you like a wild thing and all of the teachers who formerly had you in their class were expecting a Karen and instead they got a Deborah .

Karen 0:49

I was not a perfect student . I was frequently reading novels instead of doing whatever I was supposed to do . And you had . I'm a fucking delight , Deborah .

Deborah 0:59

You had read every book in the fucking library in elementary school and I don't think I learned how to start reading novels . Until how old was I ? Because you remember that .

Karen 1:11

Yeah , no , I mean , once you started in on mom's historical romances , it was a . Thing .

Deborah 1:16

Yeah , so I remember . This is a core memory . I walked into your bedroom . I was bored , because I've always had a problem with boredom , and I said I'm bored and you said why don't you read a book ? Because mom always said read the Bible . But you said read a book . And I said I've never done that and so I must have been like 13 , maybe I was older to have discovered reading . Well , did I just hand you something ? Well , you looked at your bookshelf and you handed me the love child by Philippa Carr , I believe a car , and it changed my life forever . I don't think I went to bed that night Like once .

Deborah 1:56

I started reading historical romances and of course , this was a Victoria Holt pseudonym Right , victoria Holt , who don't get me started a special interest of mine I ended up collecting like every book she ever wrote in hardback . Mom was helping me collect those books and those were my safe space and my happy place . But you are the reason that I even ever picked up a novel . But in this day and age I mean the reason that we are changing the name of our podcast is because our lives got really crazy . We did record our episode on Beloved and we are going to air it . It was a very , very powerful episode because it's the powerful story and book , but we also had the end cut off for some reason , so we lost like the whole end of it . That overwhelmed me completely and I went into paralysis .

Karen 2:56

So now we're a podcast , not a book club , right ?

Deborah 3:00

We thought let's just chat because all the feedback we've been receiving from our friends and family and people that we know listen .

Karen 3:09

Which , let's face it , that's pretty much our listeners for the most part . If anyone out there is not a friend or a family , shoot us an email , let us know .

Deborah 3:21

Everybody has said we just want to hear you chat Every time . Just talk Like like , not too much astrology , just a little , not too much depth .

Karen 3:31

You don't have to teach us about a whole new divination system every week or yeah , I think people are like it's not that deep , you know , just chat .

Karen 3:39

No , you know , honestly , well , life ebbs and flows , right I mean , and so I go through these periods of , like high spirituality and then I go through , like you know , couch slug phases and I mean it's , it's so up and down and I know I've started listening to the Handsome podcast with Tig Notaro and Fortune Feimster and Mae Miller . I think A great podcast it really is and I realized that what I really love about it they have a loose structure but for the most part it's just friends talking to each other and that's the feedback we've had . Is we just like listening to sisters talking to each other ? And , fortunately , debra and I love talking to each other . Basically , what we have now is just a chance for us to catch up with each other and you all can eavesdrop like you're at the very next table at the pub .

Deborah 4:33

Yep exactly , and we also made the decision to start doing Zoom because getting together , though we love it , can be an obstacle to us recording , and so we've just decided to stop fighting against the current of life that keeps us from doing the podcast . Make it as easy as possible , so we're going to try bi-weekly . Karen and I are just going to hop on Zoom .

Karen 4:59

And no matter what the fuck Yoda says is try yeah .

Deborah 5:04

Yeah , and also , if you don't , you know how it is . If you can't just try to keep doing the same thing , if it's not working , you have to change something . I mean that is . I mean that's the soapbox . I'll get on later in the episode , cause I want to talk a little bit about astrology .

Karen 5:18

Oh so you have , you have an agenda . We just don't have a book .

Deborah 5:26

I have a very . I mean , if I were to just read you off my should I just read you off my list here ?

Karen 5:35

And yeah , here , wait . But why don't you tell us what we are going to talk about ? Like not today , in general on this podcast , we'll wrap up our intro and then you can read us our , your , read us your list . We're sitting in our intro . Yes , oh , this is all the intro . Oh well , why don't we just roll into it ? Well , okay then welcome to the feral chrome podcast . You don't need to read anything to be here .

Deborah 5:58

Oh , oh she gave me a script and I . It's staring me right in the face . So welcome to the she's here , she is not doing homework again oh . I have a line . Wait , I have a line . You say what happened to book club Debra ? I already did that . And then I say we'll still talk about stories , themes , grief , magic , survival , power , aging , just without a syllabus .

Karen 6:23

Welcome to the Feral Chrome Podcast . You don't need to do homework to be here , yay , but now I can close that window .

Deborah 6:32

I'm so much more relaxed already . So , yeah , it's been several months . We've done a lot . There's been a lot of changes in both of our lives that we'll review today and talk about , just to get people caught up on where we .

Karen 6:47

What's your list ?

Deborah 6:48

Do you want me to read off my list ? Just read the list . Okay , oh my God , this is almost like reading the list of songs on my new album , like Taylor Swift just did , because we have no context , right ? Okay , new Independence , ooh Daddy . Email .

Karen 7:06

Oh .

Deborah 7:06

PS12 . What New Hexing TT Dream Journal , buffy Deck .

Karen 7:16

Wipe Wars . Wipe Wars and .

Deborah 7:19

Hormones . Now we can read on any order , so why don't you pick which one I talk about first , and then we'll go from there ?

Karen 7:30

Okay , let's see I actually need to know about wipe wars .

Deborah 7:38

So wipe wars is very important for everyone . This is the health section of a tv show or something one of your .

Karen 7:47

Is it the housewives thing ? No , not on .

Deborah 7:50

Bravo okay more along the lines of poopalones . So in case you forgot what poopalones are , karen , please tell our listeners what poop-a-lones are .

Karen 8:06

Poop-a-lones are basically a standing squat with a twist to ensure that you can both get up and down from the toilet seat and also wipe your own ass so that you can continue to poop alone for as long as possible . So it's an exercise routine which I really need to get back to .

Deborah 8:30

Yeah , so poop alone is the goal , being that you will always poop alone .

Karen 8:35

Alone , that's correct . Okay , we all want that for ourselves , okay .

Deborah 8:39

So Wipe Wars is kind of along those lines .

Wipe Wars and Poop Days

Deborah 8:43

Um , justine and I were driving to town the other day and we heard a commercial that said if you have to wipe more than twice , you have stuck poop . Okay , and that stuck poop is basically rotting in your butt , okay , and it's a horrible thought and we don't even know if it's true . But the thought of if you have to wipe more than twice has now become a thing , and every time he and I do our things , we say how many times we had to wipe and we see who wins . Wow , wow . That's 20 years of marriage , folks . 20 years .

Karen 9:27

The romance is alive 20 years of deep partnership . Now you guys have wipe wars Wow .

Deborah 9:33

I will say I'm the one having wipe wars . I don't think that Justine is actually participating , but I'm having wipe wars with Justine , but I'm having wipe wars with Justine . Um , does Justine reveal their number ? Not yet , but I have been putting in my my . Uh , you know results . Do you have a spreadsheet ? No , it's just more like I don't get what I want on this topic , my husband and I do have a thing .

Karen 10:03

Okay , yeah , anytime you have to poop three times or more in a day , it's a poop day . A poop day , okay . So one or the other of us will , you know , invariably send like three poop emojis so that you know that there was a poop day in progress . Um and so or you never know , like at dinner , one of us would be like I had a poop day today I love that that is almost 14 years of marriage .

Deborah 10:40

Yes , oh , that's so adorable . All right , yeah , that is the wipe war .

Karen 10:46

The wipe wars All right , it's a public service announcement .

Deborah 10:50

If you have to wipe more than twice , you have stuck poop .

Karen 10:54

But if you have a poop day , you have up to six . I love a poop day , I really do . I just had a poop .

Deborah 11:00

Yeah , I think yesterday it's liberating . Yeah , yeah , I think yesterday it's liberating . Yeah , it's like oh , there was the whole horrible week all at once .

Karen 11:11

I'm a little worried about you oh my gosh .

Deborah 11:14

I've been around the world and back again , since we had a podcast episode , I mean it's been . It's been like what Four months . I guess that we've taken off , yeah we recorded for Beloved in April .

Karen 11:31

Was it in April ?

Deborah 11:32

No , april . Yeah , Because then I went to Hawaii , that's right . That's what threw me off is because we recorded it and then I immediately like the next two days later or something was really quick . We went to Hawaii and then I started a whole new project and got really into that project and it kind of took my my all of my energy away and so I had the pod sitting there needing to be edited and it just kept sitting there and kept sitting there , and so finally I just came to you and said can we just not have homework ? Because it threw me off and also we want to keep it light and fun and spontaneous . And yeah , you know , we don't want to feel like we , we have to be always teaching , or I don't know . It just felt like , oh , like , oh , I agree , you know we're just silly humans here , like for myself .

Karen 12:31

I like to listen to just interesting or even moderately uninteresting banter when I'm like folding laundry or doing dishes or something like that . And so we're . We're not here to change the world , we're here so that you're not alone with your invasive thoughts . That's basically because that's why I listen to things Doesn't matter what it is , because if I have some sort of conversation going that I can listen to , I don't start thinking about jumping in front of a train , and so that's really useful .

Deborah 13:08

Yep , I think we're all out there these days yeah .

Karen 13:11

For good reason .

Deborah 13:13

So okay , what's next on ?

Karen 13:14

my list . You , you , you go .

Deborah 13:17

Okay , let's do well , let's do new independence , because that is for both of us a thing in a way . Now you left off , I think you had accepted the new position and your job , and now you have been working there for several months . So why don't you give people an update on your new job ?

Karen 13:38

Great , Love it . Yeah , I mean , it's pretty much stayed the same , although I'm we're continuing to push new things forward , but I'm still basically making more money working with lovely people and have a quarter of the stress from home . So no complaints , and it's been very with severance , with severance , and so it's been a considerable raise . Yeah , it's , it's been amazing . Help kids , my kids , if they need some help financially . Or you know , my daughter , my daughter Brit Britta , went through a really , really rough loss early in July . My heart daughter , which is what I call my stepdaughter , was working , needed some money because she was moving and trying to get herself established with massage , and so I was like , oh , I can pay for britta to get massages from britney and then that way they're both benefiting and I I have the financial means to just do that . Um and I . Money may not be able to buy you happiness , but money is fucking liberating in this world where survival tickets are necessary .

Deborah 15:09

Everybody needs to think about money instead of it being dollars and numbers , and think of it as energy . Yeah , and it's to be changed . That you're exchanging for , for the means to continue living , you know , and break and having a life , and so it's like for me . That's always helped me reframe it in a way that makes me realize that , you know , time is energy and time is money Same thing .

Karen 15:41

Well , I use the term survival tickets . I believe that was coined by Robert Anton Wilson . I know he uses it in one of his his books . But and that helps me it's like I'm exchanging time of my life , my energy , my , my labor for tickets that allow me to survive , but now I can share

New Independence and Career Liberation

Karen 16:00

those with others and so I can help others survive too , and that's a nice feeling .

Deborah 16:07

Yes , Well , and , and I figured I was settled and I was , I had , I was employed and doing what I've always been doing in software development with some people that I've worked with for a long time and I and I do like them all very much . But then , you know , I just woke up one day no , I know what it was , I know what it was . I watched the fucking Handmaid's Tale , oh you know , and I was pretty far back so I wanted to just watch from , I think , like season four , then all the way through the end of the series Heavy . And it was great , you know , especially as things started to turn around and I started to feel more and more desire for that personal freedom that I used to enjoy as a subcontractor and a contractor and not having a quote unquote boss job . And so I liberated myself from that .

Deborah 17:03

I I'm still doing the same work and the same projects , but it's all as a contractor , which is something I had done for many years . I just love it . I'm so happy . It's more money . I have my schedule back so I don't have to start working till 10 or 11 if I don't fucking want to . I get to decide when I meet with people and when I don't , I get to decide how many hours I spend on things where that was starting to get prescribed to me . And , oh my gosh , I realized like I was independent for far too long to be able to take orders when I was starting being told like you have to only this many hours there and only that many hours there . I was like hours there . I I was like rumbling , Like I was like don't you fucking tell me what to do , Are you ?

Karen 17:50

are you split between either signature , scorpio or Aquarius ? Is that right Of your signature ? Sign right between . Aquarius and Scorpio on signature sign and people may not know what that is , but you can explain it , but I could , because this particular aspect of you reminds me of a number of my Aquarian people . Yes , like my , one of my , very one of my best friends , my college roommate , erica , is an Aquarius and really desperately needs to be able to work for herself .

Deborah 18:21

Yes , it's just my Mars and my midheaven and my node , I mean , you know , aquarius is pretty heavy signature . I think that's why I lean towards signature sign Aquarius more than I do Scorpio . And for anyone who's curious , just briefly , signature sign is a way of compiling your entire chart when you break it down by the components of modality and element , which is whether it's air , earth , fire , water and cardinal , mutable , fixed and you see predominantly how many of each you have and that will tell you your signature sign . So if I have predominantly fixed modality and air element , that makes me signature sign Aquarius , but I equally share the modality of cardinal Sorry , no , sorry , still fixed the modality of fixed , but also I have as much water and so that makes me Scorpio . So either way , I'm stubborn as fuck .

Karen 19:24

And so that makes me Scorpio . So , either way , I'm stubborn as fuck . I'm a natal sign Sagittarius , fixed sign Sagittarius . What you see is what you get . You're a signature Sag . I'm a signature Sagittarius , yeah that doesn't surprise me .

Deborah 19:42

Yeah , so I'm so much happier now . I feel liberated . I feel , you know , I can even now move and take work elsewhere from , and then one of the clients that I had is now you know I'm getting going to get the amount that they've been paying my new company , which is like considerably more kind of game changing money . So I'm feeling like you , I feel very abundant and again I'm able to help my kids and I'm able to buy a few more dresses that I love and just the things that make me feel like the work that I'm doing round the clock , every day , all day , is you know that there's some fun in it and there's some delight in it . I need that , I need to have that light , but I'll also know that I can send my kids money if I need to . It's just I feel so good . It's the best decision I ever made and I'm fortunate that the people I work for were like that's fine with us . We like you , we don't want to lose you , you know . So yay , yay us .

Karen 20:39

Well done , well done , sis .

Deborah 20:42

Yeah , so okay , let's do hormones . So another great thing about us right now is that we're both on hormones . Now mine have kicked in , karen's haven't yet .

Karen 20:59

I don't know that that's true . I'm not sure if I think mine have started to kick in , because my husband mentioned this morning that I seem to have a lot more energy .

Deborah 21:09

Oh , good , yeah , Good yeah . I started them in early July , and so I am bouncing off the walls again . I feel like me , I feel young . I feel young , I feel horny , which is super nice . I feel like me again , and I I was excited to get back into this podcast again . I even started a brand new TikTok where it's actually me and my face doing and talking about real things , which I haven't wanted to do for many years , but suddenly I felt confident enough to do , and that feels like the old me . You know , the old me likes to entertain and likes to get up in front and make faces at people , and , and so that's been fun . It's just a few weeks off the ground . You can find me on TikTok at DebNor10 , the N-O-R and the number 10 .

Deborah 22:07

And I'm talking about all the things . Mostly , though , it started as a pure avenue for hexes on the powers that be the orange man , all of that bullshit . So I talk about astrology , I do some Tarot readings at some of my , a lot of my activism stuff , and it's all really just about um trying to also do my part to amplify the voices of women of color . So I'm following mostly women of color because they are amazing . Uh , these women who have been through the worst of it , those are the ones we should be listening to , um , and so I love , love to listen to , and I listen to their videos all the way through and share them like it's . It makes me feel like there's a little teeny , tiny thing I can do , you know , besides just spread good information about my own experiences as an activist , and then also just an outlet . The hexes are just an outlet for my fury .

Karen 23:09

It's really fun . I got mine out by because I continue the tradition that our father started with us of yelling in tunnels . And so last night we drove to the coast and I had a pretty long tunnel on the way , and so when now , when I roll down the window and yell , I just kind of like scoop up whatever rage I've got and I just shouted into the tunnel walls . But I love it , anything you can do .

Deborah 23:36

I did three videos yesterday on what is your crash out song . Now , have you heard the term crash out ? Yes , recently , yeah , yeah , it means you're just falling apart , right , you're just like burnt burnt to the crispies . And so there's a trend on TikTok is what is your crash out song ? I didn't have to look for mine , like I already knew that it was , that it was killing in the name of oh yeah , rage Against the Machine . So I did one , not two , three TikToks of me just lip syncing to that amazing , incredible song . And it was so good for my soul , because the third video is literally the only part of the song is is fuck you , I won't do what you tell me . And it's fuck you , I won't do what you tell me for like a minute straight , like it's so it feels .

Karen 24:31

Signature sign like especially the balance between scorpio and aquarius signature sign yeah , there was a sign for fuck you , I won't do what you tell me . I I think what , maybe Aries , but that was yeah .

Deborah 24:45

Yeah , it felt good to just , I don't know , there's that . I think that's the ham in me I'm . I'm always more I don't know more alive , more interested in my own self If I'm mirroring it back to myself , like on video , like putting a video out like an entertainment thing , and I've , you know , I've been this way since I was a child and I think for the last several years , as I've watched other people become influencers and do things on social media , I've always felt like , oh , you don't need to feed your ego that way . You know , you don't , you don't you ? Or you aren't interesting , interesting or what are you going to have to say that anybody cares about , um , and ? And I just decided to say fuck all that .

Deborah 25:32

It's a time of great um chaos in our world and I want to have a voice .

Deborah 25:38

I decided I want my voice to be heard to whoever wants to hear it , and I want , and I want to amplify the voices of others that need to be heard way more than me , but also share experiences of my own . You know , being arrested in a protest and tips on how to , you know , carry water eye wash with you , and because there's a lot of protests happening right now and it's like well , I am an elder activist now , so maybe it is time to just start saying this is what I learned , not telling anyone what to do , but just this is what I learned by my experience , and if it can help you and keep you from getting arrested or getting severely injured , especially , then I should share it . And then the hexes are just people are really liking them , you know , because I think it's just some kind of outlet for all of the frustration that we're feeling and wanting to like strike back , but not having any way to do so other than through our words . I guess , and honestly I don't think it'll last long , I think TikTok is going to crack down . They have a whole new set , but illusion , illusion , not illusion .

Deborah 26:49

Where you're ?

Karen 27:08

like once upon a time there was an evil king and you just swing it that way because the message still needs to be heard . Absolutely yeah .

Deborah 27:18

We just have to get a little bit more clever about deliver the messages , so , but it's been really fun . I just I finally decided to surrender . Like I'm an entertainer , I enjoy it , it makes me happy , and maybe there is some ego in there , but maybe that's not what I should be focusing on . Maybe it's okay to just want to be , you know , up in front and entertaining people and spreading information , and there's no shame in that , and maybe it's the hormones , but I finally just feel like fuck it . You know , I'm confident , I have something to say . I'm just going to do it . So I'm proud of myself for that .

Karen 27:53

Yeah , I'm proud of you too . I mean , I'll actually be doing entertainment this year , which is weird .

Deborah 27:58

Yes , let's move into that topic that topic .

Karen 28:10

This is so exciting , tell people . Well , it's just uh , our local pub that we love , called the sparrow and serpent , is um putting on a conclave of the sanguine court and conclave .

Karen 28:16

First of all . Well , it's basically . I mean , the conclave is it's like a gathering and you know like they call that when you pick a new pope is a conclave and whatnot . Um big meeting

Saturn in Aries: Claiming Your Power

Karen 28:24

. Yeah , it's like a gathering and you know like they call that when you pick a new pope is a conclave and whatnot . Um big meeting . Yeah , it's a big meeting . I mean , like , basically , the premise is um , it will be members of the vampire community in our area bringing their grievances and whatnot to the , the sovereigns of the , of Of the region .

Deborah 28:44

Yes , so Karen .

Karen 28:47

And so Reepin asked my husband and I have been , because people locally know that we're constantly off to New Orleans to do vampire shit and sometimes to Portland for vampire shit , and so now we've been asked to stand in as the sovereigns for this conclave . So it should be interesting and in a pretty good time . If nothing else , it's in spooky season . And , oh my gosh , I get to break out my fangs , and it should be where the most glorious regalia ?

Deborah 29:21

I mean , it's going to be so fun .

Karen 29:24

But I can figure out , but yeah , so that will that will be . That will be fun . I think that it is . I require whimsy . It's like you know , it's like survival to me to have whimsy , and so it's definitely a source of that .

Deborah 29:43

Absolutely , and I mean you're the perfect people to have . I wouldn't say what did you ? What did you call it ?

Karen 29:53

We have been doing vampire shit .

Deborah 29:56

No , you said . You said we've been invited to . The way you said , it was very removed from like the fact that you are now the king , vampire king and queen .

Karen 30:07

It's hard , that's hard to say yours just one .

Deborah 30:10

Like you're trying to remove yourself from just claiming and owning the power of being the vampire queen , and I want to encourage you to call yourself the vampire queen because harry's saturn return k Karen listening , you have to claim your power and you have been elected by your peers .

Karen 30:32

No , I've been asked by the owner of the pub .

Deborah 30:36

We both know who that person is and who they know and all the people that know you and we both know . Now don't , don't act like this . Isn't true .

Karen 30:45

We both know that if there had been any kind of vote , you would have been elected the vampire queen maybe , but there is a guy who shows up dressed as vlad tepesh a lot , and so he's , he's got . He's not the fucking queen , I know . I think it's just because , like , we have our friend in New Orleans who I call the vampire empress of New Orleans . That's New Orleans , I know , I know . Anyway , I've sunk a fuck ton of money into vampire shit . That much I have done into vampire shit , that much I have done .

Deborah 31:23

It is my goal to get you to say yes , I am the vampire queen of where we live we'll see , karen .

Deborah 31:34

It's your challenge , it's moving in run with it better you know . So this is where I'll do my little offshoot on Saturn and Aries for the next two and a half years . Um , so my sister , lovely sister , who was born in 1967 , is now in her second Saturn return , um , and that means Saturn is back to where it was when she was born , which is the early degrees of Aries , the sign of Aries . Most of us , I hope , know that Aries is very fiery . It's very much a fire starter . It likes to go , go , go , get right after what it wants , grab what it wants . It doesn't matter if someone else is holding what it wants , it doesn't matter if someone else is holding what it wants , it just takes it anyway and it says it's mine . I claim it , it's mine . This energy is very important and you're making faces because when you have Saturn in a sign , that means that's an uncomfortable energy for you . So the fact is that you are uncomfortable claiming and owning what you want and desire . You know it's more than just what you need , it's what you desire with Aries , and so that is uncomfortable for people with Saturn there , because that's what Saturn is about . It's a cold energy . It's focused in the sense that it's not burning hot fire like Aries and it tends to bring energy down . So Saturn in Aries is not comfortable . In fact , saturn probably really hates Aries . So all that means is that Karen and anyone else born around that time is really being challenged in their second Saturn return to find the fire within them and to harness that fire to fucking be the queen of all they survey . And a big part of that is also saying there is no boss over me anymore . Not one other person or thing in your life should have any boss power over you . You are the boss , you are in charge , you are the CEO . But it's all about energy and about claiming . It's that fierce claiming of this is me , I am and I am the fucking vampire queen bitches . So that's the energy of what people right now that are Karen's age that's what I'm encouraging you to dive into is that fiery I am energy , and for everyone during the next two and a half years .

Deborah 34:06

The theme is courage to integrity . So there's a piece of your integrity that's hanging out there that you haven't claimed yet . None of us . All of us have a piece of our integrity , a very big piece , and it's floating around us , but we don't have our hand on it . Yet we haven't claimed it because Aries is about grabbing it and taking it . You know it's not waiting for it to come to you , it's not waiting for alignment , it's not waiting for any woo-woo , it's saying nope , that's mine , I'm claiming it and I'm taking it .

Deborah 34:44

And the secret password or energy signature , or you could think of as a key , you know , is courage meaning you are fucking afraid , whatever , that part of your integrity that's floating around your head right now that you can't quite grasp and think of it as not just integrity , but it's a piece of you . It's like a huge chunk of your identity and your authenticity and it's not yours yet because Aries is going to make you reach for it and go after it and it's not going to be worth it if it doesn't scare the fuck out of you . So the thing that that's your job to figure out , what is that thing , that part of me that is floating around out there this is for everyone , not just people in their Saturn return . But what does that part of me that I need to just grab and identify and say , oh , I want that , I desire that , oh , my God . But then you're like fuck , I can't have that . I'm scared of that . I'm scared of what I have to do to get that . But you said no homework .

Deborah 35:49

This isn't the same . It's not like reading a fucking book . This is the fun kind of energy homework . It's energy homework . So yeah , so we have two and a half years in this energy . So you know I'm working on it too . I mean part of me putting myself out there more visually , out there , more vulnerable . You know I'm choosing to do that on a world stage , but I'm also having a fucking rad midheaven transit with Pluto and Uranus . I've got some serious shit up going on my chart that's calling me to a world stage level , and so I'm just stepping up to that , even though I don't feel like in my mind I have any business doing

Vampire Queen and Halloween Plans

Deborah 36:33

that . I'm fucking doing it anyway .

Karen 36:35

You're being a little bit Alexis .

Deborah 36:38

Hey , if we all had just an inch of the confidence that Alexis has .

Karen 36:49

To me being a little bit , Alexis is almost an egregore at this point . You know , it's like I think about her when I need , when I'm like I may not have any right to be here , but here I am , kind of thing , I'm taking up space , not in a not in a toxic way , obviously , but just internally .

Deborah 37:08

Yeah , it's like taking up space that maybe you don't think belongs to you , but you know , you see that part of you in that space , that part of you that's missing , and so you want to walk toward that space . And then you just need to go oh , my fucking God , like you're about to bungee , I'm so fucking scared to do this . I don't want to do this . I'm scared , but I want . I want that part of myself back and you got to do it . You just got to fucking do it . So it's .

Karen 37:33

I think it's a weird thing in my personal chart between my scorpio rising , my leo midheaven , and then saturn in aries it's like that combination and well , and my moon in aries , it's like there's plenty of stuff there that's like how . But then there's also the constriction in Ares and then also the yeah , don't look at me part of Scorpio , you know , in the first half , but a Leo midheaven , karen , I know , and I never have figured out quite how to . I guess I embrace my Leo midheaven with self-deprecation but I still do put myself out there . I've been speaking at various groups in town and so it's not like I'm not out there , I just don't put myself out there in a hi it's me kind of way .

Deborah 38:32

You're not expected to be different from who you are Putting yourself out .

Karen 38:36

there should still be karen coded , you know but , but I guess I'm just like breaking it down from like I'm the vampire queen . You know what I mean ? That's really not my personality , um , my part of parts .

Deborah 38:49

Can you just be like I'm the fucking vampire queen ? Oh no , you don't get me wrong . I do in your mind .

Karen 38:55

I created a dossier with my backstory and I , you know I mean , so don't get me wrong I'm , I'm excited about it . Yeah , I love the creative challenge um the dress up . We get to play dress absolutely a hundred percent . What I what I'm not is someone who's gonna like walk into the pub . Every time I walk in there and go , I'm the vampire queen , you know .

Deborah 39:21

I mean this was to declare verbally out loud and make yourself obnoxious . It's just owning that like you could say it to us , to me and our listeners .

Karen 39:31

I'm the vampire queen . Yes , yes , is that ?

Deborah 39:33

better , that's way better . I'm the vampire queen . Yes , yes , is that better ? That's way better . I'm the fucking vampire queen bitch .

Karen 39:40

I really need a different title . I don't like queen , that's fine . I thought they should abandon the monarchy when Queen Elizabeth died . So I'm not , I'm just not . That's not my All right ?

Deborah 39:54

Well , that's , you get to figure that out for yourself . But I'm not . I'm just not . That's on my All right , well , that's you get to figure that out for yourself . But I'm excited . I can't wait to go . We are also both attending the Vampire Masquerade Ball in the big in Portland . Yes , I am making my dress . My fabric isn't here yet . I have like two weeks to make it , but it's a pretty simple pattern . I'm proud of myself for just wanting to sew .

Karen 40:18

I mean , I am too , because I'm buying a dress , because I'm like fuck that noise .

Deborah 40:22

Yeah , I just , I just want to sew . I feel I got my machine out , it's ready to go , I just need the fabric to show up . I know it's been shipped , so I'm just excited to sew again and make something beautiful and glorious and go to the ball , and go to the ball . We're going to the ball , it's fun .

Karen 40:41

So I'm very if anyone listen is listening to this anywhere near Portland , I really recommend this event . It's got some pageantry and it's got , you know , vendors , and so if anyone's in the Portland area , I highly recommend the um the PDX Vampire Masquerade . It's , it's a really good time . Um , it's a beautiful venue and um , they have catered like appetizers and all you know I mean theatrics . Yeah , that's what I mean about the pageantry . It's um , it's an . Last year's show was just chef's kiss , um , and so it's , it's a , it's a good night , it's a it's . I can't wait . I've never been .

Deborah 41:25

I begged . Karen , I'm like you don't mind if your sister tags along into your vampire space , do you ?

Karen 41:30

you can come as my handmaiden . Vampire queen .

Deborah 41:34

I love having fun things to look forward to and dress up playing dress up .

Karen 41:39

Well , I'll follow that up by going . So we have the masquerade in September and then the conclave in October , and then my husband and I go to New Orleans . So we'll be attending Anne Rice Lestat Van Club Masquerade and then we're attending the Celebration of Life for Anne Rice that's being put on by her son .

Deborah 42:01

Amazing trip to New Orleans . Like I am jealous . That sounds so incredible .

Karen 42:07

I have vampire shit to do , you do , I have vampire shit to do in September . I have vampire shit to do a couple times in October , in October yeah , and into November .

Deborah 42:19

So what a good time . I just love feeling like going to the ball is a thing in my life Absolutely .

Karen 42:27

Well , and that's one of the things I appreciate about Sparrow and Serpent , the local bar , is that they put on a lot of events and it's not like a gigantic venue , but it's like it gives you these dress up , get out of reality moments , you know . I mean it really helps .

Deborah 42:48

The amazing , glorious goddess who owns and operates Ferret Serpent is . She's a goddess . She works her ass off . She's so creative , she's so warm and loving , and I'm getting to know her a little bit better . I want to start spending more time there because I'm trying to get out of the house more and I just I mean , I don't want to say her name just because we haven't asked her , but yeah , she's , I'm just if you , if you know , you know , if you know where we are , you , you can't go wrong . You've just got to check out all the major events , from star trek nights to , uh , to bingo . Yeah , drag bingo like it is the best venue . It's the only place that I really ever want to go when I go out , um , and so it's so fun , it's so fun .

Karen 43:37

Yay , it is All right . What's on your list ?

Deborah 43:43

There is the daddy email .

Karen 43:45

Yeah , yeah . What's this about ? Is this going to make me cry ? No , you remember the daddy email .

Deborah 43:50

I sent it to you but you're not going to remember it was . It was coming from work . What you don't remember , daddy's little helper , oh , that I just thought it would share because it's funny as fuck , but it's also .

Karen 44:07

Yeah , I thought it was going to be something like heart warming or heartbreaking about dad , but no , no , this is actually like sticky baby diaper . Yeah , yeah , all right .

Deborah 44:20

Yeah , it's just , you know it's hard . It's a person that I work with and I do like this person , this man , very much . He is a . He is a nice guy . He's not a problematic person in any way , but he's just terrible with the choice of words sometimes . And , um , I'm called sweetie , sometimes young lady quite a bit , um , and like young lady's not terrible , but I'm not young and I'm like 10 years younger than him . So but but a couple of weeks ago , yeah , yeah , and this was the whole pull on your big girl pants Same person , right , but it's like hello , I'm a feral crone . Yo , yeah , and I got an apology for the whole big girl pants thing , but yet still here we are . So I just figured it's funny enough to share it's funny enough to share .

Deborah 45:23

There's going to be like all 10 people who listen to our podcast going in their individual homes . So I he was working on something to get to a client . I was helping him quite a bit and sending him some emails and just being helpful , you know , to help him , and the email I get in response to that is well , aren't you , daddy's little helper ?

Karen 45:43

today Gross .

Deborah 45:50

It's so gross , I tell you . My jaw hit the ground and I feel like I was in paralysis for like a good 10 seconds . And I'm looking over at Justine and I feel like I was in paralysis for like a good 10 seconds and I'm looking over at Justine and I'm like I want to tell them so bad , like what I just read . But I was almost like paralyzed by just shock that someone would literally send that email to a coworker .

Karen 46:11

Like , yeah , it sounds like the kind of stuff you would get from like a dominant to his submissive or something . It's just so yucky , it's like yucky with it .

Deborah 46:25

I hate it because this person is a dear friend of mine . Oh , but he's yucky Gosh . You know . There's a reason that there are only males that are employed there , and every female that has ever been a developer there is now a subcontractor no shit .

Karen 46:45

But someone's got it like take the temperature . I just don't know the situation .

Deborah 46:52

I mean fuck yeah , we already went through with this whole thing , with the whole big girl pants thing , and I just like I don't even know , like I'm not an employee anymore , so I don't feel like it's my job to go to HR or do anything . No , I'm not . I'm not trying to bust his balls or anything at all , but it's just like , come on , just so , if you're a man of a certain age , you will . You will definitely not be listening to this podcast , but knock it off .

Karen 47:20

Ok , two things . I actually got an email from work that was unintentionally similar , because I had said , hey , you need to handle this , and the response I got was yes , mama , and the response I got was yes , mama . My response was then I , like , I replied

Dream Journeys and Lucid Dreaming

Karen 47:43

very professionally and then , in parentheses , I put mama , lol , you know , and he was so apologetic . He was trying to say yes , ma'am , and he just had a typo or an autocorrect and he felt horrible . But if that dude calls you young lady again , I really feel like , with the choice of language he has used thus far , you would be able to say look , I stopped menstruating years ago . There's nothing young lady going on around here . And if he can say big girl panties and Danny's little helper , it's like god I know , I know I feel like I have a hairball .

Deborah 48:27

I know yeah , I know , oh my gosh . So yeah , that happened , daddy's email . We've done new independence , we've done wipe wars , we've done hormones , we've done new texting tiktok .

Karen 48:43

So let now we have ts12 , dream journal and buffy deck well , well , I'm pretty sure ts12 has to do with your lord and savior . Why don't you get that ?

Deborah 48:58

out of the way very , very , very , very , very , very exciting news on the taylor swift front . For all who are my fellow swifties out there , we do have ts12 . Of course , you already know that if you're a swifty . I'm not telling you anything new . I'm just here here to say , hey , I'm so excited . We got a countdown this week which puts every Swifty's heart into a Twitter . We got a two hour long podcast episode with Taylor and Travis on the New Heights podcast with Jason Kelsey as well . It is two hours of absolute bliss , of just listening to our queen talk about her life and her process and buying her masters and what that was like . And then the best part was that of course , she's sitting next to Travis , but behind them is a very big shelf like a bookshelf and it is completely packed with Easter eggs .

Deborah 50:01

So now my Swifty TikTok account is one theory after another , pulling apart every single book , every object , everything that is facing a wrong direction or is upside down , everything that is facing a wrong direction or is upside down . Every author of every book . There's a lot of art books , so every artist of every art book . It goes on and on and on , and I just go TikTok after TikTok and these incredibly highly intelligent Swifties are breaking things down in ways that I mean . Truly the intelligence in this community is mind blowing . But every single thing is a theory now , and it's wild . It's so hard to describe unless you're in it . But it's just made TikTok so fun again in the Swiftie land because there's just so much to work with Like there's an entire bookshelf .

Karen 50:58

Leave it to a Sagittarius to create , basically , a sort of escape room vibe . Oh yes , with a background like that , I mean it's a quest , mad respect . I'm not part of that madness , but mad respect , fuck . I mean , anyone who can offer some dopamine to the world is doing service . You know , it's like straight to the vein .

Deborah 51:23

dopamine , you know , and it's given us all , like I brought my TikTok account back my puppet , you know . If you're listening to this podcast , you are the only people that know that I am behind the puppet .

Karen 51:37

Which , okay , so , used to be called the tortured puppet it was the tortured puppet , yes , and now ?

Deborah 51:45

Now it's the life of a show puppet , because her new album is called the life of a show girl . And so now we're in a new era . We're not in tortured poets anymore or tortured puppets , now we're in the showgirl era . So , yes , the life of a show puppet . Um , I really don't want anyone to really ever know who the human is behind the puppet , because I just like the puppet being the puppet . She's her own thing and she has her own personality and and she I just have . I literally just have so much fun Like I'm bouncing off the walls with fun doing those .

Karen 52:19

Well , that's , that's where the I mean joy .

Deborah 52:23

Yeah , absolutely . I even went through and just looked through all of them myself , just watch them all again , just because they bring me that much joy , and so that's just . It's changed my whole like vibe . Like I was feeling really heavy with the , with the world and the country and ice and all that bullshit . But Taylor Swift came to the rescue and those of us in in the , in the club , are just , you haven't heard that in the club , in the club , no slang , like so easily , so fast , um , but then I hold on to it forever . So it will have its time and it will pass , but I will still be saying in the club , probably forever .

Karen 53:08

Now did you say fetch fetch . Fetch is , I think it's from oh fetch that the term fetch ? No , I'm I never said fetch , that's from clueless I was no , that was a while ago .

Deborah 53:26

It's more just the stuff nowadays like crash out and clurb and , um , I'm a , I'm a , I'm a , this kind of girly and you know . There's just all kinds of terminology , that and a lot of it . I think I pick up from Ash and Elena oh , that's fair . Morbid Ash , mainly from the Morbid Network , still listen , of course , to the Buffy the Vampire Slayer Rewatcher podcast by Ash and Elena from the Morbid Network . They are , they don't know it , but they're my besties , and so is mikey . They're all three my besties and , uh , I absolutely adore them . And uh , they are on season seven of buffy , so it's sadly coming to a close , but the next show they're gonna rewatch is true , blood , I'm gonna be spicy .

Karen 54:15

Hey , they're gonna do vampire shit .

Deborah 54:16

I guess they've been doing vampire shit I was just happy they had mentioned gilmore girls and I was like no , you know , I'm forever , but I like it when they do the dark and creepy stuff . You know , yeah , that's their vibe .

Karen 54:30

So yeah , it's funny that you pick up because , like I , pick up terms also . But like I found out that in I think it's in Wales they call a microwave a popty ping , I've been we call , we call our mind because it's the noise it makes like the ping . You know , when it forever ever call my microwave a popty ping . My husband and I've been calling our microwave a popty ping for years and if we're eating a microwave meal we call it a popty and so literally , like on my grocery lists and things , it would be like we need two popties and I I write it that way . It is completely part of our vernacular . Now I co-sign that .

Deborah 55:16

Yeah , I'm going to work on that , getting that into my brain .

Karen 55:22

When I'm working a new word in like that , I'll write it on a post-it note and stick it to the object . So until it , completely yeah .

Deborah 55:33

I love having your own language Me too .

Karen 55:59

That is goals . That is goals . Erica , my college roommate , bestie , she and I were acknowledging the other day via text that we can have entire conversations just by making references to either inside jokes or movie dialogue quotes , you know , and we can express complex ideas with just a tiny little moment . And I tell you when I was flying home oh no , you were with me when we were flying home from California and we saw that steamroller at the airport . It was like a full on fish called Wanda . So anyway , I think having your own individual language is a whimsical and and useful . Absolutely , I totally agree .

Deborah 56:29

Well , since I talked about Buffy , I can segue easily into Buffy deck , which just that I started practicing tarot again and got my Buffy the Vampire Slayer deck , which I'm finding a very good way to learn because the archetypes are so familiar , because I'm the characters of Buffy , and so I highly recommend , if you're trying to learn tarot , that you get a deck like this , where it's a pop culture type deck of a universe that you love and that you already have resonance with , so that when you are trying to understand the concepts you can put them through that lens of those archetypes that you already fully understand . And it's made it a lot easier . So I thought and I've been doing a couple of readings on TikTok just for fun and I thought I would just pull a card and we could look at it together and talk about that . So what is your ?

Karen 57:20

question Well , I just I want a card for the reformatting of our podcast .

Deborah 57:28

And what do you mean ? What's the question ?

Karen 57:33

I just want to know the energy surrounding the reformatting of our . What is the energy surrounding the reformat of the feral crone ? No longer book club , now podcast , which was already a podcast , but now it doesn't have homework . All right , here we go .

Deborah 57:51

All right , upside down , upside down , I'm pulling a lot of stakes , so it's reversed , the eight of stakes reversed . So that's the eight of wands reversed . Okay , so I'm going to look at this . So it looks like it's a full on brawl with Buffy and oh , it's all the slayers , it's all the young slayers .

Karen 58:15

But is it ? Is that the needless conflict Card ?

Deborah 58:21

stakes ? Probably , I guess , but it was reversed Okay . So you do what you want to do to understand the energy . But I just like to go off what I see on the card first , and then I like to see how close I come to the actual interpretation . So , on this card , it's all the potential . So you got to think about season seven , the last season of Buffy , and I'm watching that right now with the podcast , the rewatcher podcast , and it's basically all of the potentials going to battle Okay .

Karen 58:55

Well , like I looked at the eight of wands , reversed Delays , frustrations and feeling of being overwhelmed or stuck , which is exactly why we branded right , that's very true . Yeah , it is the energy around it Slow down , reassess plans and avoid rushing into decisions . It may also signify a lack of progress , missed opportunities or a need to reignite passion and excitement in a situation , and so that is literally why we reformatted .

Deborah 59:24

So thanks for telling me what I already knew , yeah , and on the Buffy card , like I said , it's all the potentials fighting . So I think upright it must be some kind of like going after something energy forward . I'm going to battle .

Karen 59:45

Yeah , it's swift action and progress .

Deborah 59:47

Okay , yeah , so that makes sense as to why I'm seeing this card the way it is . So you can see it's got all this , all the potential . They're going after , they're going into battle . It is so you can see it's got all this , all the potential . So they're going after , they're going into battle . Yeah , so for us , I think that makes sense . Reverse means that we were stagnated and we were kept start , stop , start , stop , because we just didn't quite find our battle plan , in a sense , the way we're going to move forward with momentum and continue to go instead of starting and stopping . So much . Yeah , okay , cool , yeah , I thought that was fun . Um , do you want me to pull one for the future ?

Karen 1:00:23

yeah , okay . What do I need to know about being the vampire queen ? Oh , there you go . Okay , all right , because that is a Buffy deck . I'm upside down again . I'm looking upside down . That's , yeah Okay , interesting .

Deborah 1:00:43

Moon reversed , yep , and we've got Faith on this card . I think it's because Faith is so moody and emotional and up and down like the moon , like she's . She's a moody bitch , it's probably . Well , it's interesting because you have an Aries moon .

Karen 1:01:07

I do , and actually I just like pulled up a little overview , and one of the little key things is overcoming fears .

Deborah 1:01:11

Fair , it is right there . Oh my gosh , that could not be more literal . And obviously you know . You know , faith is fearless . So , upside down , it makes sense that it would be the opposite of fearless which is in fear . Yeah , see what I did there . Yeah , yeah .

Karen 1:01:30

I did .

Deborah 1:01:30

I'm good at that . I could figure that out all by myself . So , anyway , yeah , isn't that interesting . This deck is really fun . It's just fun to have some kind of spiritual practice going for myself again . So , um , all right , that is , oh , everything but the , for me , one of the most fun things I was excited to talk about today . But before I do that you know I don't mean to hog the whole agenda Do you have stuff you wanted to bring up ?

Karen 1:02:02

I think the biggest thing that has happened in my world since the last time we recorded was the loss of my almost 18-year-old kitty , Dippy-Doo .

Deborah 1:02:13

Dippy-Doo . They progressed

Project Red Flag: Creating Horror Magic

Deborah 1:02:15

about a week and a half ago , two weeks ago yeah , he passed away on july 30th .

Karen 1:02:21

Yeah , and that was . I have not gone through pet loss in um 20 years . Yeah , so it was . It's well . It's been pretty heartbreaking . Um , I did not know how much my own nervous system was tied to him , because I had rolling panic attacks for days after he passed away , even though all of the worry and all of that was gone . It was like it took my nervous system five days or more just to start to regulate after he was gone .

Deborah 1:02:56

When you've had an aging cat , especially one that is living beyond what is a normal amount of years I mean 18 years , my goodness , I can imagine that for and I know because I'm your sister is that there's been a lot of anxiety around Dippy and if he's eating , if he's not eating , and all the things you need to do and the vet visits and the and the steroid shots and so for that to just suddenly end . Your nervous system doesn't quite understand that . That just ended and so it's going to take time and of course you know grieving is super important .

Karen 1:03:31

So Well , and it was interesting because you and I've talked a little bit about being a little emotionally blunted . You know that feeling and that loss punched through any emotional stagnation or anything . I think I feel like I was a nine-year-old girl crying for my kitty and I feel almost like , well , and I have to say , I gave myself permission to grieve and be sad and in so doing I mean I made noises I have not . It was very visceral , I have not I . It was very visceral . It was almost like the grief for him , scooped out , old , sludgy , unprocessed grief out of my inside my inner grief bucket or whatever , and I just let it all go .

Karen 1:04:34

I mean just , oh , good for you , yeah , and so it's . It's almost like having it wrenched out of you . You know , wailing , it's like the wailing , yeah , or keening , yeah , um , yes , but I do feel like it's sort of scraped out my inner grief bucket and I was able to just release some things that were maybe partially processed and whatnot . And the day that we took him in , on our way out , I was so dramatic , I was zipping up his empty carrier and I , you know , through tears , said to the vet well , if we ever decide to risk loving another animal , we'll be back . It's like that Scorpio rising moon , I know so , um , and and my husband was saying , well , maybe after the new year we could think about getting another kitty or whatever . And , um , we didn't even . We made it a week , one week , and now we have two kittens . They're so cute , they are absolutely ridiculous , absolutely ridiculous .

Deborah 1:05:45

They're so fucking cute , oh my goodness . So tell us all about your new babies .

Karen 1:05:52

Well , we have one who looks like he may be a um , a black smoke tabby , and he's gray and black and a little bit stripy . Oh , beautiful , really beautiful , oh , and he's so , and he's so , so funny . We named him monroe von blah blah blah , because the blah blah blah can be , uh , replaced with whatever he's up to that day . So he has been monroe von blanket sucker , monroe von broom rider , monroe von um trips mom in the hall . And then yesterday was monroe von water weasel because , for whatever reason he he prefers to , he likes to play in his water . Yes , so he likes to dip his paws in it and lick it off of his paws , but then he likes to step in it and then and he has knocked over his water bowl so many times . And so yesterday I had put a new water bowl in there that I thought was going to work , but it was larger , and the first thing he did was just dump the whole thing . We have a water kitty . We have a water kitty .

Deborah 1:07:02

He's a water . That's why he's the Monroe Von Water weasel . So some cats just love water and I've never had one until Hecate . But our routine in the morning is I get up , I turn on my tea kettle and then Hecate jumps on the counter and I put on the sink and then she plays in the stream of the sink Like she loves it . She puts her paw in and she just plays with it and she and and my daughter-in-law and son also have a water kitty like that . They do the exact same thing . So when Monroe is big enough you might have a kitty that likes to play in the sink .

Karen 1:07:36

I'm concerned because I've ordered a , like a water fountain for them . Yeah , and they're kind of small for right now , but I'm afraid that's just going to become like water world and I'm going to have to like put a one of those portable swimming pools in my house just to keep it from ruining the floors .

Deborah 1:07:58

Yeah , your whole house is transformed right now into a journey god well , because they have the invention of little zip up playpen tents .

Karen 1:08:08

Yes , rats , I've never they didn't have that kind of thing when my mom and I had kittens in the past , and so our whole living room is full of them , which is it's helpful because we can ensure that if we leave the house there , they've already broken an antique bowl and so we can make sure they're safe and they have their food and their water and a litter box and whatnot , but they're not running loose , getting into danger , and you don't have to put them in the garage , you can just leave them . Oh no , yeah , we want to keep them comfy and safe . Because our other kitty her name is Princess Amoria , first of her name , first of her name , we call her Mori and she's Monroe was fostered , she was trapped , and so her , her whole vibe , is a lot more fearful and she's super sweet and has the most amazing , like calming , blissful energy If you get her to feel comfortable enough to sit with you . But she's struggling a little bit .

Deborah 1:09:13

Fortunately they have bonded yeah , from the same litter , but we have a lot of work to do with her to help her feel comfortable yes , um , but they're , and we got to come in with both of them and they are just the sweetest little things and the videos and the photos karen keeps a steady stream of those coming through chat to me and her daughter , britta , all day and it is the best , it is the best .

Karen 1:09:42

They're so funny . They're not Dippy . I had 17 and a half years with Dippy . He was my , he was just my sole companion , you know . I mean we were together all the time , but they're , they're funny and they're sweet . And they are also because I , when you have an aging cat that needs medication and isn't wanting to eat and all that , it takes a lot of work . You know , I was constantly trying to everything I could think of and so they having the kittens helps fill that , yes , need to they're . They're so rambunctious . I'm constantly cleaning up after them and making sure that they're . You know water isn't dumped out and you know things like that . So it's kind of patched in . Because I crumbled when , when Dippy passed , not only was I sad , but it was like all of my normal routines . I wasn't cleaning the house , I wasn't like everything just kind of fell apart . And them here has got given me some structure again .

Deborah 1:10:43

I will say that , you know , your house looks a little bit more like mine now , in the sense that there's animals running around , goofing around all day and and obviously I have three dogs and three cats , so we've got that going on all the time . There's just all this activity for for little furry friends running around and it and it's like they just generate serotonin and dopamine everywhere they go .

Karen 1:11:09

And so it's been like if we were noticing my husband and I . He has a bunch of stuff to do . We're like , how are we going to fit this in ? I'm like , well , we could watch less TV . He goes , we're not even watching TV anymore , we sit on the sofa and just watch the kittens , and so it's like we don't even have that to give up anymore . You know , it's because they're so freaking entertaining . So fun .

Deborah 1:11:29

Oh my gosh , I just , I'm just so happy that you guys didn't wait , apologize . Your heart and you knew that . You know . I mean , you talked to me about getting a message from Dippy that you should keep your heart open . Yeah , I did . What my heart wants to do is love . What is wrong with that ? There's nothing wrong with that , yep .

Karen 1:11:47

He . Yeah , there were some weird synchronicities around that and I'm really grateful too . And then we took the kittens in literally after my dramatic exit . A week and a half later , I'm back at the vet with kittens same vet , cause I adore her . Um and uh , she told me she said I expected we'd see you back really reasonably soon . And um , and she said when her beloved heart cat passed away , she was the very next day . She's like I just can't live in a house without cats . Yeah , I just can't . It's not for me .

Deborah 1:12:25

Yep , I feel the same way . Um , especially , especially cats . I , I , I doubt that I could survive without a dog . Um , it's been a while since I ever tested that theory , but I know for a fact that I can't survive without a dog . It's been a while since I ever tested that theory , but I know for a fact that I can't survive without a cat .

Karen 1:12:38

Well , and it was such a weird juxtaposition too , because we took the new babies in and we got them tested for feline leukemia and it was , you know , negative . So they're both good and healthy . And oh , and Monroe had ear mites . So that day he was Monroe Von Eerschmutz because we had the vet cleaned a lot of mess . Oh , my husband was about to vomit . It was bad , but he's all cleaned up now . And then the same visit , we picked up my dippy's ashes .

Karen 1:13:11

How , and we got home and there was a card from the vet and it had ink prints of his paws and his ink print of his nose and our thing every morning when I would wake up , he would come walk up to me and we would touch no , I would say are we family ? And he would touch his nose to mine and I'd say we're family , and that was like our daily routine . And so when I saw that nose print , I just about went to my knees , I absolutely took me down . Is that a crash out ? Yes , okay , I crashed out . Yes , but my husband and I are going to get tattoos , something to do with his nose and then it'll just say forever family .

Deborah 1:13:55

Well , I'm so happy that you guys have your new babies . Thank you , they're so fun .

Karen 1:14:00

But I call them Every morning , I walk out .

Deborah 1:14:04

Hello my babies .

Karen 1:14:06

Once they get a little bigger , we'll let them sleep with us . Good segue , okay .

Deborah 1:14:11

My final topic , and I'm not telling you not to have more topics , but it is my final topic . Get it okay . Wow , I , my dreams are so bonkers and they have been , but they're starting to change . I think it has to do with the hormones for one it could .

Deborah 1:14:32

I know they affect dreams , yeah , and so my dreams are not staying stagnant anymore , they're starting to change and become new things , and so I'm not just we're having the same repetitive nightmare where I get lost in the city and my legs don't work and I can't find the airport and I can't get home , like that was the , and usually the city is , um , is , is falling apart , you know , and it's somewhere in , not in this country . It's always like on the , on the European continent , you know , or somewhere far away , sometimes it's in Asia , and so I've I finally stopped having that dream , thank fucking God , about when , around the time I started hormones , so around that also , because I'm wondering if those dreams had anything to do with being an employee .

Karen 1:15:17

Well , I don't know .

Deborah 1:15:18

It could have be unrelated to the hormones , but all I know is that they have changed , and so because of that , I started being very , very rigorous about journaling them in my Chachi PT project called Deb's Dream Journal . My Chachi PT project called Deb's Dream Journal . And then what's so great if you haven't used Chachi PT for dream analysis ? It's so great because it will pull from every source you know on the internet about dream analysis and symbology and then it will just have a conversation with you about what you dreamed . So my dreams are changing and and and there's way too much to go into and it would probably get boring , but just to highlight kind of what I'm experiencing especially , the most exciting part is that I'm lucid , dreaming more now .

Deborah 1:16:05

So before I'd only ever had that one lucid dream and I think I've talked about it where I realized I was dreaming , and so I started flying and I felt the sensation of flying and it was awesome , and so then I said , well , if I am , if I can do anything I want , I want to see my mom , and mom showed up , and then I woke up .

Deborah 1:16:24

So that was my dream for years . And so then last week and it's usually in the in the morning I've already woken up , like , and gone to the bathroom , and then I get back in bed because I like to sleep in . And so I lucid dreamed and I was at the point where I was able to say , I don't like this story , I don't like what's happening , so I'm just going to fly my ass away Nice . So I started being able to do that , and I remember this sensation of like getting a running start . And the thing that I really remember very clearly is the feeling in my mind of I can fly , of , yes , you can , you can jump , you can like jump full body into the air and you will catch wind and you will fly . And that feeling of just knowing I can fly and that I will , my body will lift up and move forward is the coolest . I can't even describe it .

Karen 1:17:22

Well , I mean that's an incredible self-confidence . I mean it's like knowing , it's almost like having the rose road rise up to meet you , kind of feeling like to be that confident . That's that . That's an interesting shift . What ?

Deborah 1:17:38

is I'm suddenly now taking having more action and I'm and I'm , I mean it's a lot , karen . I mean I could go on and you'll probably , you'd probably be fascinated by some of the stuff that that is happening . But I basically did a . Will you tell me and break down like the themes and where I've been for the last two months and what , what has happened , you know , since I started journaling ? And so a dream analysis , themes , and so I was thinking I could just read a little bit of that and you can kind of see the kinds of stuff that it can do . Ok , so this is dream progression , phase one . This was starting in early July .

Deborah 1:18:24

Disorientation and survival , so a lot of lost late city on fire . I also had a dream where there was a city on fire but I saw a black car pull up and I got into the car and the car was doing all kinds of crazy things . It was like it was demolition derby out there . It was like chaos , but I was completely safe in the car , like I didn't bump around , I didn't hit anything and it was almost as if like a pregnant body is . You know where the baby moves around . Even though the body gets tossed around the baby is still safe in the fluid . So it felt kind of like that . And so then I had used to . I was used to having body glitches or where my legs wouldn't work or technology wouldn't work , so I couldn't like contact or connect to my family or figure out where I was . And so it says reading your psyche rehearses danger navigation while starting to build internal vehicles . So that car represented the first time that I manifested something in my dream that would safely remove me from a dangerous situation . Okay , okay .

Deborah 1:19:38

And then phase two I started in late July . It says testing structures . So I was in a and this . These are just things that come throughout a lot of the dreams old apartments , old houses with pests and decay . There are lots of group dynamics . It's chaos but survivable . And I started noticing that the house is me and that the house keeps changing . So I had a dream where the house kept changing shape , inside , you know , and there were rooms that weren't there , but but the whole thing , the whole house was very old and decrepit . And so there is this recurring theme of a house and it being falling apart . But it , but it , it . Now it is starting to transform . So that was change , right yeah .

Deborah 1:20:26

And then I had a dream where I was not me , but I was another woman and I had had a bunch of kids and I had a wife and I .

Deborah 1:20:40

And then at one point one of the little boys tried to put a pill in my mouth but I wouldn't take it . And it said something about how I'm being invited to do things in my dreams but I'm putting up boundaries and I'm saying no , that isn't mine . So , for example , another dream I had is where I felt like I was in some kind of again like an apocalypse . But then I went into a temple and there was this huge religious ceremony going on . Everybody was in these big dresses that could spin kind of like the soupies that spin and then they all got into this big pool and I got invited to be a part of it . But every single time I'm invited I always say no , that's not mine , like I'm going to hold back and watch . And then another I'm starting to find that there's another person typically that shows up in my dream as a guide , and that can sometimes be a man or a woman or a child , but there's usually someone that shows up like that .

Karen 1:21:37

Quick question on that have you ever had a dream where you know you were communicating with an individuated entity , that it was like a visitor in your dream ?

Deborah 1:21:48

Well , I did have that dream for Justin's cousin that I told you about . I was very certain it wasn't for me . The dream wasn't for me . I woke up on a bus . I was disoriented . I didn't know how I got there . I was told I was naked but had like a man's coat on and like a rug wrapped around my waist . I asked where I was . They told me I was in Astoria , which is in Oregon , that I've only been there once , on my honeymoon , and I actually had a miscarriage . It's when I found out I was pregnant up there , but then I ended up miscarrying that child .

Deborah 1:22:18

So that's my connection to dystopia is some kind of like loss . And then I was wandering around in a building and trying to , and then at one point I was like , wait a minute , I'm in , I'm dreaming . And I tried to fly , but I couldn't fly that time and I thought , oh , I am , I'm not dreaming . And it was one of those where I thought I was awake , like I really thought I was lost in Astoria . And then I picked up a phone and so , anyway , long story short , I had just done a really intense astrology reading for my cousin , and so it ended up being what I felt was a message for her from her father , who had just passed away , that he needed help crossing over and being reintegrated with his higher self and a bunch of stuff , and it was cool and she did a whole psychopomp thing and it worked and he showed up and it was neat , you know . So that actually felt really useful , like my dream was actually helpful in some way to someone else , and that's new for me .

Karen 1:23:19

But if you have guides showing up in your dreams . A question I'm asking is because I've I have never lucid dreamed , but I have had dream visitors where I am not . It is not just in my subconscious , I'm actually communicating with an external entity that has become part of I'm not sure . Yeah , I was wondering if the guides had that sort of like I am not part of what your subconscious is trying to tell you . I am actually another entity here .

Deborah 1:23:50

I haven't felt that yet .

Deborah 1:23:52

But , every time the guide has been someone in the story , okay , okay , with the observer at the ceremony where they're in the pool . That was someone like me and it really felt very much like we are white people watching a ceremony , a religious ceremony that is not ours . We respectfully held back and watched and witnessed . You know , it felt like that . But then I left that building and then all the I was on a roof and the roof was transforming under my feet . It was like spinning . And so there's lots of this like moving , transforming structures in my dreams , a lot . And so it's saying that my self-structure is in flux and I'm stress , testing foundations without collapsing , and so I'm also getting to the point where I can say , oh , I have to really shake myself because the dreams get so heavy that they are real to me . I'm living it . It's a real story that I finally have to go . No , this is not real . Deborah , you can wake up . You don't like this story . You can wake up , and I've started to be able to do that .

Karen 1:24:59

But then sometimes I'm now to do it while you're awake , yeah .

Deborah 1:25:02

And so then I mean they just , they just go bonkers , bonkers . And so then phase three , early August , started to be themes of time , identity and control . So I finally , in one lucid dream because I've read over andcape , karen , I can't describe it . When you're lucid dreaming it's like you're there but everything is harder . And so that whole feeling of yes , I can fly , and just sheer will of getting yourself off the ground . But this time I had to try to actually speak my own words , like conscious words , to someone . But while I'm dreaming , so it's not easy at all . But while I'm dreaming , so it's , it's not easy at all . And so I'm struggling and I'm like it's almost like I was underwater and I was like what time is it ? And ? And then she looks at me and she says 930 . And so I was like , well , that's not true . Then she just told me the time , and it's funny because that's the time I had my alarm set for . So I woke up . It's time to wake up , but it wasn't . It was like 630 . Oh , because I wanted to dream some more and I went right back into another dream . So the early morning stuff is the coolest .

Deborah 1:26:32

So then I've also had dreams where , um , like I dreamt that I was with justine , we were married , but then all of a sudden , they were talking to me and their face turned into a woman's face and they were talking to me with someone else's face and I was like your face is changing . And they're like what , what are you talking about ? And I was like your face is someone else's face and so that shifting identity thing is happening . Um , and it said , oh , the other thing is now I'm on skates or a skateboard . My legs used to not work and now you're faster , I'm on skates , that's cool , and I'm just like flying around through things and you know , on my skates , and so that's forward movement . That's different . Yeah , I wonder how good it feels to finally do something different , because I was caught in this purgatory for so long of the same dream . Now things are actually happening .

Deborah 1:27:19

And then for phase four , which is more recently , so I had a dream where I actually dipped into an alternate dimension is what it felt like , because it wasn't the same laws of physics and I could tell that I did not belong there , because when I looked around , everything was running like it was a paint , like a painting that was wet , so everything was just running and I , I , there was a guide there . Now , that's the only time it felt like maybe , and then something else , kind of a guide , because I told the guide . I said this isn't where I belong , like this isn't my dimension , like physics are different here in the sense that I don't need to be here , and so I just switched out and went somewhere else . So that was weird and that was conscious , that was lucid conscious .

Karen 1:28:14

That was lucid . But there's , there's a theme here too of not belonging . Oh yeah , in these two , these the dreams where you , you've received an invitation , you , you're holding yourself separate , yes , invited by the people like , so I , I mean , I get the , you know the cultural appropriation aspect of it and whatnot . But if someone invites you , I know , you know the cultural appropriation aspect of it and whatnot . But if someone invites you , you know . So that's something to really consider .

Deborah 1:28:35

That's something that ChachiBT has picked up on it . It's constantly reinforcing the theme that I keep myself out , I hang out and I hold myself out like an observer instead of participating . Yeah , that is . That comes back over and over and over again and then , so now also how I've moved through the world's changed . Now I have car , I did finally , finally , this past week I got home from the European or wherever the foreign country oh great , I got home , but guess . Or wherever the foreign country oh great , I got home , but guess where I was living . Now I went home to our childhood neighborhood , but I was not living in our house that you're going to trip . I was living across the street in Charlie Anderson's house . I took possession of my childhood bullies home .

Karen 1:29:32

That's a reclaiming of power .

Deborah 1:29:35

And you know , recently I had this childhood bully who used to tell me I was dead every day . He was , horribly , he's a horrible , horrible , disgusting human being still to this day . Karen found him on Facebook and so I decided I I was contemplating ruining his life and I was like , wow , what I do it ? What I catfish ? And I mean , decided I I was contemplating ruining his life and I was like , well , how would I do it , Would I catfish ? And I mean I decided I don't want to put energy into him , but it was on my mind and so somehow in my dream , I took possession of his house . That's hysterical , Wow . And also it was . It also said something about being able now , from that side of the street , to be able to look at myself as a child and a vulnerable , scared child , as opposed to being in the house in the body of that scared child . So that's different .

Karen 1:30:21

Well , and you know , I was reading something the other day and I didn't read the article , I just saw the the headline go by , so you know , bad on me . The um , uh headline go by , so you know , bad on me . But the gist of it was something that I've been very interested in in a long time , for for a long time was the idea that choices we make now can actually impact the past , um and so like . Because we've talked about child self-healing and things like that . There's a movie , dark city , that gets into this theme , which I absolutely love . The movie if you felt like you didn't belong or you you felt like you were picked on , that you can like . So you're reclaiming power over someone who had a psychological impact on you as a child and it will be very interesting to see if you continue to do that , if that helps you feel less like a perpetual victim now . Does that make sense ? Yeah , that's interesting .

Deborah 1:31:21

And powerful . The craziest dream I had was just this week and I woke up . It took me an hour to like get myself out of it because I felt so real . But but this was not a great dream , but it was more of the older themes of being trapped , but it was more of a full story . So I was in another country , I was being held captive , there were mean girls around and it felt like there was some kind of patriarch that had me , um kid , had me under control or trapped , and then I was being told , and everybody was being told , that I had gone insane and that they were going to have to keep me there just for my own safety and that I wasn't ever going to be able to go home . But it felt like it was within my own family as well . So it felt like like you know , grandpa , great grandpa , but not not our real grandparents , but like like in Europe , you know , like like generational stuff , and so I was being held there and I was being just the biggest brat , like I was trying to get out , I was screaming , I was , I was doing anything I could to get away and it was just constant . It went on for days Like I'm in a room , they won't let me out , they're telling me I'm crazy . Then there were these mean girls that kept picking on me and you know , and I again I was apart and I was separated , and then at one point I had a chance to escape . So I got out and I ran and I ran around terrain that I always run around in my dreams . I can remember what it looks like in my mind . I can't really describe it , but it's very familiar and it's where I go when I'm running . And so I'm running away and they're after me and I know they're going to catch me . And so I got to find a place to hide . So I find this really high place and I jump on top . It felt almost like a semi container , but it's just parked there . So I jump way on top and I'm sitting up there laying flat , trying to hide . But they catch me .

Deborah 1:33:16

But at the same time as I was , before they caught me , I was running around and then my dream epilogued itself and it's I heard it say she got away , she narrated her . She got away and she moved , she got back to the states and she changed her name and she lived her life . And she lived her life in freedom , right , but then I was back in the dream and then I was being chased again and then they I hid and they caught me and they took me back . And when they took me back , suddenly , suddenly the time shifted . I was no longer me , I was my son , so I was now in the same place . So then I was thinking she didn't get away because here I am , her son . So she obviously didn't get away .

Deborah 1:34:04

And I was married , I had a wife and she was young and she was pregnant and vulnerable , and so I was doing every again apocalypse , like crumbling building , everything's falling apart , and we are living in like dormitory style , you know , like everybody's , like just , you know , trying to survive .

Deborah 1:34:24

And I'm trying to keep her protected , cause I remember her being really small and very pregnant . And then we managed to get out of that place and then I was alone and I got into another place and then there were rats everywhere , rats chasing us , chasing us , chasing us , and the rats chased me down into a room and I managed to barricade the room and get it sealed up so no rats could get in , and I looked around and it was an empty room , and then I saw a window open and I knew that was my way out . And then I woke up , and so the fact that I'm starting to be able to escape , and then the window is a symbol , like a different perspective and being able to say like , and then I had to think this is stressful , I don't like this , but this is my life . And then I went wait a minute , no , this isn't your life , this isn't you . And then I woke up Wow , it's like I look forward to going to bed because I'm like what's going to happen tonight ?

Karen 1:35:22

Oh , I , I've definitely had phases of my life that are like that . In fact , I bought . I bought a couple of different herbs that are supposed to help with dreaming . I haven't haven't brewed them into a tea and tried it yet , but I should , before the next time we record , just see what happens , because why not experiment on your own body and I think a huge part of it , Karen , that you're probably and a lot of people probably don't have the luxury is to sleep in .

Karen 1:35:46

Yeah , but I like last night I , I , I had some dream that I was at like some magical theme park that was run by . Yeah , there , it's not that I'm not having dreams and stuff , I'm just interested in them , in remembering them a little better and also in getting a little weirder with them . But I like , yeah , in my dream last night I was fighting a battle to preserve , like basically , homegrown magic versus corporate magic or something . It was like very , there was a wild animal in it and you know all kinds of stuff . I just data dump . First thing in the morning I hit oh that's see , that's what I need to start doing . It is .

Deborah 1:36:22

Yeah , consciousness , I literally just like okay . So , wow , no , lisa dreaming . But I dreamed that I was in another dimension where it seemed like everyone was painted . I definitely feel like it didn't belong and I just go , yeah , feeding it and keep feeding it . And now that I've been doing it for almost two months , I'm getting like real solid trends and real solid theme .

Karen 1:36:42

Now you're tracking themes . Yes , in my opinion , I mean , even though ChatGPT has access to every like dream symbol repository or whatever , I think the most powerful dream symbols there are your own . Yeah , the only way to establish what they are is to consistently journal your dreams and also note what's going on in your life . When I was going through my second divorce and stuff , I was constant tidal waves , tidal wave after tidal wave after tidal wave dream and I and then or leaky ceilings , no matter what I could do , no matter how many bowls or whatever I couldn't catch , and so there was very much like out of control , far too large emotions or unmanageable emotions , and so I could correlate what I was dreaming to what was going on in my life at the time , and when you do that , you can really start to hone in on what your personal and because my real life and yeah , exactly yeah it can pick up on OK .

Deborah 1:37:47

So the last thing I want to bring up , just talking about what's going on in your life and I think part of this is why my dreams are changing and becoming more empowered and less victimized is because of my new screenplay that I'm writing with my partner , justine , and it's called Red Flag and it is a horror series . It's either going to be hopefully we would love it for it to be a series like a television series , but we also have a movie script because we want to have all the options , and so we've completed the movie script . We actually entered the pilot episode into a contest and we're in the quarterfinals of that contest , so that's exciting that people are really liking it . So the premise is that it is a basically a coven of witches who kill predatory men with divine magic , like the divine right to murder in order to restore the balance of power in the collective , and so it is a blast .

Deborah 1:38:44

We've already cast some roles , we're raising money , we did our first Kickstarter that funded , and we are I'm just having the best time . That's awesome , playing like I'm going to make a movie . Well , I mean , I think I'm faking it till . I'm making it , karen .

Karen 1:39:00

Yes , well that's the whole thing . Like right , this is the feral chrome podcast . We have who knows how much time left . People I know in my age group are dying left and right . We've lost quite a few gen xers all of the sudden . You know , um , and so , like you were talking about earlier with saturn in areas , you gotta fucking seize the shit and do the shit that matters to you . It does not matter what anyone else thinks if you , because you can't ask for permission . Well , and it's like . You know , there's a quote by Kurt Vonnegut that I'm going to paraphrase paraphrase very badly about going into the arts not to make money , not as a career , but for just the absolute expression of your humanity , expression of who you are . You know , I mean just whatever art means to you .

Deborah 1:39:51

You know , I mean you're , I think , writing out the story of red flag , where I'm pulling a lot on our shared history , karen , and in ways , um and dramatizing that and um , and it's being able to write certain scenes and saying things , to write the words of saying things to certain abusers that I never got to say in real life , but getting to have a character say it and writing that script and I I feel myself transforming and changing into a more powerful badass , like every single day right now , and my life is filled with creativity , my TikToks , but then I'm also now learning slide dobro , awesome , we're going to vampire balls like New worlds of things . Yes , love life right now . I'm so happy Reality's letting us down .

Karen 1:40:45

Oh fuck . Yes , being a crone is like . I mean , other than some of the body stuff , it's the best phase of life thus far , especially internally , you know , Absolutely I think we have probably talked everyone to death , but it's been fun .

Deborah 1:41:01

This has been fun . If you've joined us today , we really thank you , and thank you for your patience with us as we figure out the right way for us to do this . I think we I'm feeling very good about this because this was no pressure . I literally just came up with a stupid list and you know we had a lot of fun , so I hope you did too .

Karen 1:41:20

Any last words , karen Well yeah , I just wanted to give some contact information . You can still get in touch with us via Instagram . We've kept the Instagram from the old days , cosmic Disruption Sisters . We also have a Gmail account , berylcrones at gmailcom , just in case you want to be part of the conversation . Again , we want to have guests be here talking , whether you uh , yeah , now , so we can .

Deborah 1:41:55

You can zoom in and be a guest anyone . Uh , we'd love to have people , other people to talk to and get your insights and hear how your crone journey is going . Yeah , when , even if you're not a crone , if you're anyone who has interest , if you're not a crone , if you're anyone who has interest , if you're an aspiring crone , yeah , yeah , I mean , it's fun to just get on here

Episode Closing

Deborah 1:42:14

and yak at each other . So for sure , great . Well , thank you no homework . No homework , all right , until next time . Bye , bye .