We enjoyed talking to Jennifer Gardella so much because she survived a difficult situation and is now sharing her story to help others.
Jennifer is a Social Media Consultant and Author. She helps small businesses with their marketing and social media presence, and has a new service, Your Social Media Hour. She is the owner of The Gardella Group.
She was also the victim of domestic abuse and she didn't even know it!
She taught us that some women might not even know they are in an abusive situation. They might not be physically abused, but they are on an emotional roller coaster as their abuser showers them with affection and then mistreats them. This pattern can escalate and the victim needs to get out, but it may be hard for her to do that.
Jennifer has written a book called "Listen for the Whispers of Abuse," in the hopes that victims and their loved ones can learn about how to deal with abuse that may not be obvious at first.
Her book is available on Amazon:
Link to book: https://www.amazon.com/Domestic-Violence-Awareness-Listen-Whispers/dp/B0CJHB717B/ref=sr_1_1?crid=3LPSF5EQCJ0DQ&keywords=Whispers+jennifer+gardella&qid=1696002387&sprefix=whispers+jennifer+gardella%2Caps%2C71&sr=8-1
Her contact info is:
Learn more about BW NICE and our mission to help end domestic violence HERE
Check us out on Social Media:
Facebook
LinkedIn
Instagram
Twitter
Sign up to be a member HERE
We enjoyed talking to Jennifer Gardella so much because she survived a difficult situation and is now sharing her story to help others.
Jennifer is a Social Media Consultant and Author. She helps small businesses with their marketing and social media presence, and has a new service, Your Social Media Hour. She is the owner of The Gardella Group.
She was also the victim of domestic abuse and she didn't even know it!
She taught us that some women might not even know they are in an abusive situation. They might not be physically abused, but they are on an emotional roller coaster as their abuser showers them with affection and then mistreats them. This pattern can escalate and the victim needs to get out, but it may be hard for her to do that.
Jennifer has written a book called "Listen for the Whispers of Abuse," in the hopes that victims and their loved ones can learn about how to deal with abuse that may not be obvious at first.
Her book is available on Amazon:
Link to book: https://www.amazon.com/Domestic-Violence-Awareness-Listen-Whispers/dp/B0CJHB717B/ref=sr_1_1?crid=3LPSF5EQCJ0DQ&keywords=Whispers+jennifer+gardella&qid=1696002387&sprefix=whispers+jennifer+gardella%2Caps%2C71&sr=8-1
Her contact info is:
Learn more about BW NICE and our mission to help end domestic violence HERE
Check us out on Social Media:
Facebook
LinkedIn
Instagram
Twitter
Sign up to be a member HERE
Hi, everyone, and welcome back to the BW nice voice podcast. We're so happy to have you back. And I am here along with my co host, Lynne Thompson and our incredibly interesting and brave guests today so Lynne, why don't you let everyone know who she is? I'd love to. Today we have Dr. Jennifer Gardella. She's a social media and blogging expert. She also speaks on domestic violence, and its impact. She also has a book because she realizes she needs to spread the word. The book is called Domestic Violence Awareness listened for the whispers of abuse. So your story is a little different. And we would really like to get that out there. Welcome, Jennifer. Well, thank you very much. It's so nice to be here. Lennon, Debbie. Thanks for having me on. Absolutely. Where do we even start, you have such an incredible story. But I'm thinking that maybe we start at your backstory and your aha moment, when you realize that you were actually a victim. Yeah, so it's, that's the one of there's a lot of very fascinating parts of what I went through surviving domestic violence and then escaping. So first of all, I didn't actually want to leave my two daughters who at the time were 20 and 21. We were on our way to a safe location because the house had become too much. So we were getting out to take a break. And on that trip out, they said to me, we don't want to go back there. We know he's being he's abusive. Mom, you're being abused. It was there a big cry for not cry for help cry for we are all deserving of better, pretty impactful moment. My heart was screaming, I was madly in love with him, I didn't want to leave. I was trauma bonded to him, which we can talk about. And I talked about it extensively in my book as well. But I was trauma bonded to him, he had convinced me it was all my fault. All the screaming, all the rage was all my fault. It wasn't his fault. And so, but I had two daughters, their father has actually passed away. So I knew in that moment that it was my job to protect them. Fast forward. So we had then set I set up a new home for us, we had moved in, post separation abuse had started. And I needed to file for a restraining order. And I called the good folks over at a woman's place at the suggestion of a friend, hysterically crying out of fear. And I said, and they said to me, we're going to get you that legal support that you need. We'll get it for you. Because, you know, that sort of woman's place does. But would you like to talk to somebody, and I said, I don't need to talk to someone at a domestic violence Center. This is exactly what I said. I wasn't hit, oh, my God. And the woman said to me on the phone, you know, ma'am, I'm just gonna point it out. And I can't remember the exact wording that she said to me, but it was you're calling a domestic violence center for a restraining order. You're hysterically crying out of fear. You don't think you were hit. But maybe there were other forms of abuse and domestic violence in the relationship. I went through eight weeks of crisis counseling, and at the end of that I resisted trauma therapy, I said there was no trauma. Again, this is not even denial, it was I was not educated enough. I didn't know that manipulation, isolation, control, coercion could ever be considered domestic violence and abuse. And as I started to walk the path with a woman's place through all the healing that they so graciously gave to me, I realized that in fact, it all was domestic violence from the minute that I met him, he had a premeditated plan to rope me on and trauma bond me and turn on my life. And that's what I had lived through. And that is domestic violence. So Jennifer, do you mind if you're, if you're okay with it? Can you just share with us specific examples of what you mean by being isolated? And you know, some of the things that he did that are considered abuse? Yeah, so the great question because I really want your listeners to know what it is that abuse looks like, right, you know, in a relationship, whether or not might not be physical abuse that creates a trip to the emergency room. So first of all, there's and there's a lot of different I'll just go with the big ones. There's isolation, and we even saw this in the show made on Netflix, last two summers ago, where you know, she was isolated, he would take her cell phone, cell phones were not allowed in our house. If I was on my cell phone communicating with anybody it was, oh, put that down. You're always on that thing. You need to pay attention to me. And then there's just control. I was told what car to take when I could work when I could see my children when I could do anything. So it's the isolation control. But then mixed with everything is your fault. And moments of love bombing, and this is where they really get you, right? The whole relationship starts off with massive love bombing. And you think that they're the greatest thing that's ever happened to your in your life. And they're listening, and they're so considerate, and they're doing romantic things. And as the abuse strips in, they will be back in with love bombing. So you're like, Wow, this doesn't feel well. But look, now he's taking me to New York City, which is my favorite place on the planet. So he loves me, I don't know what that was, you know, at first, it's like, well, I don't know what that was. Maybe he's just in a bad mood. And then suddenly, he starts to pick on you. And picking on you looks like fat shaming, you don't have enough which I was I was 100 I was so honest about my story. I was five to maybe I was five, three, I don't remember how tall I am, you know, 125 pounds, so I'm not a heavy person. And I he expected me to be 115 He had served me food. You You know, this isn't attractive to me, You know what I want. I wasn't allowed to have my hair cut the way I wanted. So my hair had to be long and blonde. But then again, every time that there was an incident, there was a massive love bomb attached to it. Sadly, what happens over the course of the relationship, he ropes the victim in more and more love bombing becomes smaller and smaller. And she's actually just living in a hellhole, which is where I was at the end. So all of a sudden, holidays, birthdays are ruined. And every victim that I've talked to, I haven't talked to all of them. But every victim that I've talked to, has PTSD over holidays and birthdays, because they just work holidays and birthdays and so they isolate you, they love bomb you they try you know, it's all of it. And here's the one big thing that I really want your listeners to understand. Love shouldn't hurt. You can fight with your spouse about you know, someone's spent too much money on the credit card bill and you didn't need that dress or whatever it is. And that's okay, couples have problems. But if someone is hurting you, and that's another thing that he constantly did, he took any vulnerability that I had. And it was like he jammed an icepick into the middle of it, constantly reminding me of the things in my life that I wasn't proud of what I was working on. So that's that's all emotional and psychological abuse. And it's all considered domestic violence. And when you're in it, so you know, you're a strong, successful woman. And when you're in it, and someone is controlling you like that, you go along with it, because you think that he loves you so much. And this is what you need to do. Like what is your thought process? While he's telling you, you can't do this. And you can't do that. And you can't do that with your hair and all those things. I have to make him happy. He had convinced me during the process that it was my job to make him happy. One of the first things I heard in my healing journey with a woman's place was it's not your job to make anybody happy. It's not your job to fix their problems. And he would say things to me like it's your job to heal my heart. And I really thought it was I thought it was my job to be his ideal woman. And so you're stuck in this, I say it in the book, you know, you're stuck on this hamster wheel, like running and running and running on this little hamster wheel trying to please him realize you're sitting in a cage. You're not going anywhere. And there was also a piece of me to be very honest that you know, I had divorced once. I didn't want this relationship to go down the tubes. That would have been embarrassing to me like what's wrong with her kind of like I had moved to Bucks County for him. I had set up my life here my children had moved my ex husband for before he passed away he had moved to like we were in it. And I also believe that because of some very specific characteristics of his, that he was better than me. He had convinced me of that he was quite wealthy. I was not. So there was a I've taken care of my life. You're coming into it. He provided my life and my health insurance, therefore I owed him and the truth is in a regular relationship, especially in a marriage, if you provide health insurance to your spouse, that's just like part of the deal. That's just what you do, right? There's no other way you can explain it when I'm like, that's just part Oh, I get health insurance and it's cheaper than you got whenever you work it out. There's no balance sheet on the relationship of who does what for one another. Now, Is he older than you I'm feeling like he was just a couple years wasn't significant. Have you acted like he was a lot older? Like, I know everything? Yeah, he was definitely. And I know everything. I'm the big guy on campus, I've had the successful career, you come along with me. And so when I met him, I had just graduated with my PhD, I was just starting my business, I'm sure he set the world on fire. And he, you know, he would make comments, I have all the money I need, and I'm good. And so, you know, it's time for you to build your thing, and I'll be the stay at home, you know, whatever. And it didn't work out that way. He had absolutely no intention of supporting my career. So that was the love bombing. Exactly. So I met the guy, right. And so when I started to build my business, then under, you know, that relationship, everything became a problem. And, you know, you guys weren't BW nice, right? So we're like, you know, a lot of people who have built businesses, it's no easy task. And so, when you're working, when I was working to wait, why are you working so much? I don't want a significant other that works this much. Why are you on the phone? Again? Why are you working with a client? What? Why don't and then on the other side of it, why don't you have more money? Oh, Mike, well, you know, let me work. And then I'm not going to have a high, my business isn't going to be doing as well. And I thought, again, that if I just withstood the storms, they would eventually get farther and farther apart. And eventually he would come down. I had no idea what I was in for. I think that we don't when we're in, like Debbie said, when you're inside of something, right? You don't pop out and look at the big picture. You just deal with each thing. And you keep saying Well, surely, you know, you don't realize it's a love bomb. You just like surely he'll be nice again, right? Like, this is just something I have to get through rent. That's a great message to get out to people to women to define what you deserve, define, you know what's happening, and maybe pop out and look at how long has this been happening? What's the pattern? Because we don't do that we're taught like to be starry eyed. And you know, we fall for him, and then everything's great. Right? And we want to keep believing that that's what I'm hearing. You just want to keep believing that. Yeah, he I say in the book, he was my prince charming, and my James Bond. And legitimately, in many ways, he really was kind together when he was on. But what slowly began to happen every trip, every everything was under his control. And he, unbeknownst to me, he had a goal to ruin everything, and then blame me, that's a big part of it. It's called, you know, it's part of gaslighting in a way, let me blame you. So you think you're responsible, and you actually have no idea why and so you start to doubt your insanity, he would start to rage. And I would start to apologize, having no idea what I was apologizing for. And then he would scream, you're wasting my time. And I was like, I haven't said anything in an hour. You've been raging for an hour. Oh, my God, this sounds so familiar. I have a good friend who went through something very similar. And I believe she wasn't like yourself ever hit. But a lot of the patterns were there. And it's, it's really scary that we as women, sometimes don't even I mean, you had a PhD. But we, we think romantic relationships are different. Maybe we give ourselves you know, we give ourselves too freely, and don't see the signs. So was it your daughter's was that really what did it for you when they tell us a little bit about how that happened? Yeah. So we had realized that the house had become a little too unstable. For us. It was becoming it was a pot of boiling water normally, and it was slowly but surely becoming a pressure cooker. And so we were on our way, we had packed up some things not a lot. We were just going to go away for a little bit of time, and stay somewhere else. And on our journey. They're literally in the car. 20 minutes into this car ride. My daughter's turned to me. And they said to me, Mom, you're being abused, we're being abused. We're scared to death, when he starts to scream at someone, I sit in the basement and ready to call 911 I'm so scared. We don't ever want to go back there. So that was a defining moment for us because I had a choice to make my heart was screaming, right. You're, you're just you want to say no, he just needs to calm down. And more than likely, it was a feeling that I had for my middle daughter because she was sick and tired of me justifying his behavior. I had to own all that I had to own. Well, yeah, all of it. Right. And so I promised them in that moment that we wouldn't go back. And this is the scary part that victims don't realize is that and society as a whole don't realize is that in that moment, I had no idea What was available to me to help me escape this abuse? My children were telling me were scared to death. And the thought of going to a shelter was foreign to me. I was that that wasn't even on the table, right? Because I wasn't being hit. And that's part of my mission organizations, like a woman's place is there for you, because of the to help you out of these situations, and to provide guidance and support and therapy and support groups and all of that. But in that moment, I had no idea. So what we did was we went and stayed in our safe location for about a month as I set up a place to live here. And then there were other barriers. Had I been on his mortgage, given my income, I wouldn't have qualified to rent an apartment on my own. What would I have done, and I was lucky that I did have a pot of savings that I could also prove and show against my rent. So I didn't have a full year in savings. But I had enough months behind me. And that is literally how we squeaked out. I want to know, Jennifer, what did he say? How did he know you're gone? Did you tell him you were leaving? Or did you just disappear? Now we did tell them again, it was the house was boiling, right? And things were not safe. And we were talking about maybe it's a good idea to for the girls tonight to leave. And he actually didn't disagree with that. I wouldn't say he agreed it was a good idea. He actually, you know, I've been calling places and apartments for you. So if you want to get out and wreck this whole thing get out now. And I thought, yeah, it was pretty bad. But anyway, so he did just back out of the driveway one day with all of our stuff. When I did tell him what my daughter's had said. I have to be honest with you. I was shocked. He said to me on the phone. That's okay. I don't like them very much anyway. So as a complete, but that's what abusers do. So rather than say, wow, people that live with me have noticed, there's a problem, right? Not even like we're blaming him or anything. But this is one thing that I learned in, I guess through my healing journey, they then turn the tables and blame the victims. That is classic abuser language, I'm gonna blame you. I stubbed my toe. And it's your fault. I dropped the bananas coming into the house. And it's your fault, not realizing no one cares. If you drop the bananas, there doesn't have to be a blame right there doesn't, you don't have to have a target. They always have to have a target. So I kind of knew once I told him and that we were thinking about getting a I was, you know, need needing to set up a new place. He immediately kicked into what's going to happen to us. Are you leaving me? Are you you know, it became all about him? I don't want this. I don't. And I was like you're not getting this? Like, this isn't? They didn't come and say they don't like the food that we cook. Hey, could you bison soda, right like this? Was there sitting in the basement scared out of lead? Yeah, they're afraid. And it didn't. He didn't care about that. So I mean, I know we don't diagnose people, but he sounds a lot like a narcissist. So the book is, I'm just gonna back up, because that is such a good thing that we can talk about. So the book came about because last year during Domestic Violence Awareness Month, I did a post a day on social media, about what I had learned through my journey. And I'm now preparing to try to do that again. It was exhausting. It was a lot of information, managing the comments, and the phone calls and the text messages and the private messages was a full time job, because everybody that I was in contact with was like, you know, whatever. But one of my first posts that's going to start on Sunday, the start of domestic violence month is we need to very carefully use the word narcissist. In fact, I make a call to stop using it, because it actually gets victims in a lot of trouble. I did use that word with him when he did something clear narcissist behavior. And he then had a reason to pummel me. Oh, Dr. Jennifer, I didn't know you were able to diagnose people now. So rather than the situation that I was angry about or what he had done to elicit that response from me, it became all about your diagnosing and you shouldn't and so that so that's why I just say abuser. And you can go on the internet and make lists and I've done it in the blog post for next week. Got 25 things, and I can take off all of them with my abuser, no empathy, center of attention grandiose, you know all of it. But the other reason why we need to move away from that word when we're talking about specific individuals is because it can get a victim into a lot of trouble in court. Judges do not like you to walk into court and diagnose somebody. That's not cool, right? Now, again, you may know and think but here's the then the twist to that. We actually don't have a lot of cases of diagnose narcissists, because they don't go for that and they don't, and therapists now are actually stopping counseling abusers in couples therapy, because the abuser eventually will wreck the therapy practice, because they're going to get called on their stuff. And they don't like that. So I I really walked down the path of narc abuse, narcissist abuse, you'll see me use those words, that to label someone for a victim is kind of a dangerous situation. Good idea. I'm so glad you got that out there. Yeah. No, I was gonna say so. You leave, he knows you leave. But you say the abuse continues. And I just want to say this also, because I'm laughing with a smile on my face. When I left, I was a dilapidated woman. And when I went through this, I was scared out of my mind. I mean, I'm talking sitting on the floor of my home, crying in pain. And post separation abuse, there's actually a whole wheel of it in the world of domestic violence, we deal with a lot of wheels of healing, or I'm sorry, wheels. In general, there's a power of control wheel, there's all these post separation abuse wheel. So there's wheels in the post separation abuse wheel looks like a whole lot of things. And he did all of them knocking on my don't come to my home, he would knock on my door at 7am in the morning and scare the heck out of us. He would find my friends on the street and start harassing them. He called my clients he called my business contacts. He called I mean, what he did was insane. Then you walk down the path of financial ruin and legal abuse, right where you're either in court, they've stopped, you have no access to money. And all of these things were happening. He was stalking my children sitting in empty parking lots at their job just staring at them set up for their afternoon shift to the restaurant that they were working in. You know, the police were called hundreds of text messages, phone calls and emails for harassment that no one should have to endure that to this day. And as I share next week, and those posts, I'm still enduring, like he's still trying to get to me and I went no contact over three years ago, and no contact is critical for victims to realize you took control. And he couldn't handle that, because he had control for so long. He just couldn't not have it. And he's, it's just scary, have vindictive, best way to say you said it the best when he wanted to control me, they need to control something. And the situation to him got out of control. I walked out and I was staying out. And what about a restraining order? How does that come into play? So I'm unsure how I'm going to navigate these kinds of conversations. And I'm glad I'm in the safe space of BW nice to have this. So restraining orders are very judged dependent. So while I may have walked into court, with 30 to 40 incidents of what you and I and the normal person would consider creepy, because they didn't cross the line by five feet. The judge actually was like, Look, she said this to me what this is, this is all because of your divorce. And I sat there and I said, What? I've gone through a divorce before none of this happened. So if this is how we do divorce out here like this, we got to change this right. That's a little strange. Some other divorces that I know of and restraining order processes and other counties in Pennsylvania, they have gotten restraining orders. I told you not to email me anymore. And you emailed me five times that is harassment and the judge goes Damn straight it is. In New Jersey, I have friends that have gotten restraining orders for things like too many emails approaching on the street. Here I was I had all of it and was not able to and it wasn't because he had a great lawyer. It's because the judge shut it all down. And I was like, Okay, you just need training. I mean, it sounds like some of them just don't get it. It's funny and that's a great question and the simple answer is yes. So when you have it judge who, let's say has been a real estate attorney, and they've been non elected to the bench in family court, that is going to be a problem. They don't really understand what can even happen in divorce, let alone in a divorce with an abuser, and how to protect a victim. So that's the first thing and judges. I have talked with family court judges, unbeknownst to me, they were family court judges, and I was talking about these things. And I'll never forget it. One judge said to me, Well, I just don't understand why do they go back? Why don't these women leave. And unlike Sister, you don't understand the number of barriers to leaving. And I'm now in the direct services training with a woman's place, which is where I'm being certified. It's 45 hours and a practicum. I feel like I'm getting another PhD. But the barriers to leaving, she's now going to leave him and the children are going to go spend time with Him alone. That may not be okay. One problem we haven't solved is what happens to pets. The domestic violence centers in their shelter situations, don't take pets. So now you're leaving a pet with an abuser. And if there's fine, there are financial barriers to leaving, there's all of these things and people don't get it. So sometimes if a woman knows, I'm going to be the whipping post, I'd rather not have the kids go there alone. I'll take the brunt of it. And it's easier to stay with them. Does that make sense? So that's what that's what the judges believe. And that's where they operate from. Yeah, on different on different subject I've been. I've seen how different judges have very different rules of determining things. And it's frustrating. It's very, very frustrating, because it shouldn't be subjective, right? Not at all. If I tell you to leave, if I tell you to leave me alone, if I send you an email, I mean, are you going to try to be my friend anymore? Probably not. That would be weird. If three years has passed, I probably don't want to hear from you. But you know what, like self respect, respect yourself, for gosh sakes. So talk about what your goal is now even though it's fairly obvious with your book, and how you plan on spreading the message and helping other women. Yeah, I thank you for asking that. So I will step back and say when I first started to inch into advocacy, my goal was to educate and heal the abusers. Because if we solve the problem, if they stop abusing, if they heal, whatever is causing them to act like this, the whole world will be a better place like rising tide lifts all boats, that would be fantastic. I then quickly realized through my education journey with that with the healing that I was doing that that was impossible. They don't want to heal. They think that they are amazing. So I said, Uh huh, I'm going to have to educate not only the victims, but I'm going to have to educate everybody else. The loved ones, the friends, the colleagues, right, maybe she's coming into work every day with red eyes and crying because she's being abused, or her sister's being abused. And we need to provide that support. And I thought you guys know the world of marketing a little bit, there's no better way to do this kind of education than to say, Hey, I've wrote, I've written a book. So that's what I plan to do, I plan to get this into the hands of as many people as possible, and start speaking and talking to awesome people like you who are doing this work as well. And say, let's get ourselves educated about this. Because this is a hot topic that just doesn't impact a couple of people. It's one in three women, one in four men 50% of the LGBTQ community is living in a relationship of with with some level of domestic violence. So that my goal is to do that. And I say in the book, he's just not a jerk, right? Because we've all been out to dinner with the with a couple of couples and you're like, good, God, I can't stand, you know, to have him. Go on keep going on about his life and how great he is. Well, maybe he's just not a jerk. Maybe he's an abuser. And really checking with your friend. You know, we're raised to say, oh, it's none of my business. I'm not going to get involved. And maybe if we get involved and we recognize the signs, we'll be able to save some victims that way and help them get out and then provide support. I say she needs so much love and support when she gets out because her life goes into utter chaos. I don't want to go down a whole other rabbit hole. But that's an interesting comment because I actually went through I didn't do the 40 hour training. I don't remember how many hours I did. It was like the mini version at safe and 100 In. And after going and listening and learning, I felt that my friend was in an abusive relationship. But when I talk to her, if she's not ready to see that, then it was not viewed so positively guide her. Do you know what I'm saying? She was not happy with me for even suggesting such a thing. I talked about that at one of our meetings, I think it's really important. We always have a representative from safe at our meetings. And she said, she gave her presentation. And she said, one of the things that people don't understand is you can't just jump right to you have to leave. Because people don't, you're not ready for that. They don't see it as something they need to do. And so she killed the messenger Deb. Yeah, exactly. I do, I do address this in myself, but we can't do is go to her and say, Oh, my gosh, she's a domestic violence abuser, believe him for sure. Because she will go back to him and report that Debbie said, just usually. And then she will isolate the relation you from her, and she needs you in that every day, still sitting there with her on the phone. That and that's what we can't allow. We can't allow that further isolation, the relationship will be trashed, and she will not be allowed to see you anymore. You get put on the enemy list. Exactly. That's scary, right. So yeah, the more we know, the more we can help people. And that's really good. And I don't even want to talk about this, because it would take forever. But it does occur to me that we need to raise women differently. Because we raise women to sort of, you know, fantasize and romanticize and give our selves over to this, you know, fairy tale. And that's got to stop. Yeah, and we need to stop this idea that you need to stay and work on things rather than leave. Right? Sometimes the strongest thing that you can do is leave as quickly as possible. Yeah, I don't want I have three daughters all in their 20s. And, you know, I have raised them be independent, and someone needs to come into your life and fit and not control. Right. That's what we need to teach, especially women like Lynn, you're dead on Correct. No one should squash your dreams? Absolutely. Well, listen, you have been thank you so much for being so vulnerable, and sharing your story, and then turning taking your story and putting it out there to help others. It is amazing. So can you let the listeners know where they can learn more about you? We didn't even talk about your professional career, but just to learn more about all of the things that you you do and have. Yeah, so thank you for giving me that opportunity. So the books available on Amazon. Excellent. That's very exciting. And then in my real life, I am a social media and blogging consultant I've built rebuilt my business over the last few years. So I help small business owners connect with their ideal clients. And you can find out about that on the Gardella group.com. And then more information about me on Jennifer gardella.com. I have to be honest with everybody since this book launched just last week, my entire digital presence has gone up in the air. So when you're like Wow, she looks like a hot mess. I'm like it's coming under control. Debbie knows a little bit about that. I do. And by the time this airs, you will be all under control. Exactly. Exactly. I just know you've done good today. And I know you've helped people just just being on this podcast. So thank you. Well, thank you guys for the work you do. You know, we're hoping to spread the word BW nice. I mean, every single chapter supports a domestic violence Center, which is exactly what we need in the world today. Diane was dead on right when she started this organization. So thank you again. It's been great. Thank you. Thank you Till next time, everyone. Bye next time.