Shannon and Mary chat with critically acclaimed author and experienced actress & advocate Colette Hiller about ways to make word learning innovative and fun. Colette is releasing a new book titled Colossal Words for Kids, which combines educational poetry with vibrant illustrations to teach new words and related content knowledge. The book is delightful and so is Colette. Listen to this episode to gain creative ideas about how to help get students excited about word learning and how to help make the vocabulary stick in the students' minds.
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Shannon and Mary chat with critically acclaimed author and experienced actress & advocate Colette Hiller about ways to make word learning innovative and fun. Colette is releasing a new book titled Colossal Words for Kids, which combines educational poetry with vibrant illustrations to teach new words and related content knowledge. The book is delightful and so is Colette. Listen to this episode to gain creative ideas about how to help get students excited about word learning and how to help make the vocabulary stick in the students' minds.
RECOMMENDED RESOURCES AND ONES MENTIONED DURING THE EPISODE
6.16 Delightful Word Learning with Colette Hiller
Shannon Betts: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Reading Teachers Lounge. Come join the conversation with other curious teachers as they discover teaching strategies and resources to reach all of their learners. I'm Shannon.
Mary Saghafi: And I'm Mary, and together we bring an honest and experienced point of view to the topics we cover to shed light on best practices.
Whether you're a new teacher seeking guidance, a seasoned pro looking for fresh ideas, or a curious parent, our community offers something for everyone. So grab your favorite cup of coffee or tea and cozy up in the virtual lounge with us and eavesdrop on our professional conversations.
Shannon Betts: Listen, learn, and immediately add to your bag of teaching tricks.
Find what works for your students with us in the Reading Teachers Lounge.
Mary Saghafi: Hello and welcome to the Reading Teachers Lounge. I am so happy to [00:01:00] start this season six. Episode 16 with a guest author. This is Colette Hiller, and she is the author of a new book that I highly recommend. It's called Colossal Words for Kids, and previously she also authored the book The Bee on Your Thumb.
And we are delighted to have you here today to talk about rhyme and oral vocabulary, and, you know, To share so much on information with our listeners today. So welcome Collette.
Colette Hiller: Thank you very much, Mary. I'm tuning in from London and I'm looking forward to this session.
Mary Saghafi: Us too. Well, I have to share personally this this book came across on our desk and we were just so happy.
And I, I got the copy of it and I, Opened it up and actually before I even opened it up. I had left it on the table and my daughter found it and she was just enthralled. She's a third grader. She absolutely fell in love with this book. She happens to be a child who loves rhyme and [00:02:00] poetry and she could read, you know, the Shel Silverstein books of hours on and came across and she was like, Mom, I love this book.
And I happen to mention that the author was going to be on the podcast. And so she actually has a couple questions for you. Okay, to share. I will do my best. So the book that we're talking about is Colossal Words for Kids, and there are 75 tremendous words that are neatly defined so that they stick in your mind, and that's the caption on the book and these books have a small rhyme and I Some of these larger vocabulary words and they have these beautiful illustrations with it.
So with that being said, I'm going to let my daughter start our conversation with a very good.
daughter Saghafi: I have a few questions for you.
Colette Hiller: Yeah.
daughter Saghafi: First of all, which poem is your favorite?
Colette Hiller: That really is such a [00:03:00] good question, but it's also a bit like asking a parent which child is their favorite because you don't always, you might like something in one way best and another one in another way best.
But I think, I think one of my favorites might be the word volatile.
Mary Saghafi: I agree. I love this one too. I'm going to go with the next question and we'll dive a little bit deeper but I think that it's like, start off this way.
daughter Saghafi: My second question is, where did you get the list of words for each of the poems?
Colette Hiller: That is really an excellent question and here's how I did it. The words that most children in grade school or in England, it's called primary school, the words that they get in vocabulary lists are sometimes mixed up in a way with spelling words. And as a result, those words can be a bit dull. So they might give a child, a third [00:04:00] grader, a word like words like genuine.
or dangerous or descriptive. And to my mind, those are not words that would make anyone's pace race. But if we gave a child like you more specific words on the same themes, everything changes. So disingenuous is infinitely more interesting than genuine. Precarious is much more intriguing than dangerous.
And while the word descriptive is unlikely to inspire anyone, nondescript is a different story. I mean, just imagine a word that so, that describes something that's so dull that no description fits. Now that is interesting. The way I chose the words then was to look for words where I knew children could understand the concept, the idea that the word was saying, [00:05:00] but they might not know the word.
So that was the first thing. And to find them, I looked in older teenagers, 16 year olds and 17 year olds vocabulary lists. But, Then I had an additional problem, which is I had to have a word for which I could actually write a rhyme. And they're very tricky to write because you have to keep them short.
They should be amusing. You have to hear the word in context, which means that you hear how it would be used. And the meaning has to be so clear that after you hear a rhyme twice, you're ready to use the word because I wanted this to be a ready to use collection.
Mary Saghafi: Fantastic. I totally agree. And I think it hits the mark too.
It's my daughter is using these in context all the time and she loves to share them. But more importantly, she loves to teach them to her younger sister as well. I think she loves to [00:06:00] be the one who has the most. the large word and then to explain the word. She's a bit of a wordsmith as it is. And so you know, I think that she's really enjoying it.
So I have to commend you. I think that it hit the mark, which is fantastic.
Colette Hiller: And the, the, you know, it's doing something. that a dictionary cannot itself do. So, for example, when you look something up in the dictionary, the definition is unlikely to be the least bit entertaining, but it's also often convoluted, and then you have to interpret it and make it make sense for you.
So if you look up a word like retaliate, the dictionary might say to do one action in response to another. And it's hard to see how that would inspire any child. So my definition makes the [00:07:00] notion very, very clear. So here is retaliate.
If somebody calls you an old kangaroo, you might retaliate and call them one too. If somebody tries to give you a thwack, you might retaliate and give them one back. But really, there's no need to respond in this way. No need to retaliate. Just walk away. So they will hear the word, and they will hear it in context.
And then underneath it, there is Some of the words have little quotes from well known writers. And in this case, the quote is from Booker T. Washington who says, Sometimes it takes more courage to walk away than to retaliate. And so you might put that notion to a child to say, What do we think that means?[00:08:00]
And then not only have you got the word, but you've got a thoughtful discussion about ethics and using thinking skills. And I think any child would be pleased to think about that question.
Mary Saghafi: I completely agree. I'm going to share the last this last one.
daughter Saghafi: I really enjoyed your book. I just wanted to tell you that my favorite poem or word poem is bravado. Bravado.
Colette Hiller: Well, I'm going to read it. I
daughter Saghafi: like how it says, I am not at all afraid to bite a ten foot avocado. I love it.
Colette Hiller: Yeah, that's, that's and, and, Shall I read, I'll read that rhyme since we've just done it.
Mary Saghafi: I have to admit when she reads it, she loves to use a very strong and powerful voice too, and I, it's, it's lovely.
Colette Hiller: That is so nice, I'll have to [00:09:00] get her to read some for me. Bravado. Although his knees were trembling, he spoke with great bravado. I'm not at all afraid to fight a ten foot avocado. I've done this kind of thing before, boasted young Ricardo.
Inside he was terrified and feeling desperado. In no way could he ever slay a ten foot avocado. For he was just a flea, you see, who boasted with bravado.
Just darling.
Mary Saghafi: I have to admit, your creativity is fantastic.
Colette Hiller: It's wonderful. That brings up another very key point, and I think it's this.
The reason to teach vocabulary from an early age is really not to create irritating boffins who [00:10:00] can sail through exams. The aim is to spark a lasting joy of language, and when we teach children ambitious words, we show them that they're not intruders, and that the words are theirs for the taking. And back to bravado, perhaps the most important reason to teach big words is this.
Knowing the right words for something sharpens imagination, and enables us to think with perception. and precision. But if you didn't know the word bravado, you couldn't recognize that quality and therefore couldn't place it. To quote the writer, Samuel Beckett, words are the clothes that thoughts wear, and I want children to think in this perceptive way.
Shannon Betts: I love that. I mean, we talk a lot of times on the podcast about [00:11:00] phonics and how sometimes English seems illogical and things like that, you know, because we're kind of a mishmash of a bunch of different languages. But the beautiful thing about English, I think, is that we have so many. Precise words. We really need a certain thing.
And so like last night I was at dinner with a group of friends and we were talking about a book club book that one of the girls was reading, which was the unbearable lightness of being, which I had read in college, but it had been a while. We were talking about the main character and how misogynistic he is and how annoying he is.
And we were all trying to come up with the right descriptor for him. And all of a sudden it goes. You know what he is? He's pedantic. And everybody started clapping and they were like, that's exactly the 25 cent vocabulary word we were looking for. And I felt so proud of myself that I had come up with pedantic and the moment, because that was the exact word we were all wanting to use to define.
And none of the other ones, they were close, but they weren't right there.
Colette Hiller: Well, that is. That is [00:12:00] exactly the same feeling that is experienced by adults of triumph, of finding the right word. It's like finding the right piece of a jigsaw. It's just a lovely feeling. Children experience that same thing. And often, with the best of meaning, adults will go way out of their way to avoid the actual word, which is a great shame.
For example, if you were asking your 10 year old child to please pour a jar of something into another jar, you could and should use the word decant. And you might say, Oh, Abby, would you mind decanting the the jam and pouring it into a smaller jar? And she might say, What's decant? And you very casually say, Oh, it's just pouring it from one jar to the other.
Not a big deal. Not a heavy duty thing. And then afterwards she might say, I've done. Oh, did you decant it? Look, that's it. You've used it en passant and it's gone in. [00:13:00] But the point that you said about arriving at a word and feeling terrific about it, that is precisely what we are aiming for here. And This is a very important thing.
What the teacher or parent is sharing is not the word, not really. It's the delight in words, and that is what they're taking away. So, You are not force feeding spinach. No, you are serving up soufflé, éclair, another éclair. You don't need to be, you must do this and we are learning this. In fact, I wouldn't use the word learning at all.
If you're waiting for the right time to teach a rhyme, what you might say is,
Is this a fine time? Is this a fine time for us? Is this a fine time? [00:14:00] To do a rhyme. And they'll say, or you might say, is this a fine time? And they'll say, for what? And you'll say, to do a rhyme. But you wouldn't say, do you want to learn the word for such and such?
Mary Saghafi: Delightful. Absolutely spot on delightful.
Sometimes I use the description when I'm talking with parents about teaching around the back door. Because children love to soak up information and they soak up the most information from very, excited and enthusiastic adults. So if you're passionate about your subject, which all teachers, you know, really are and you clearly are about words and being delightful with rhymes, it is enthusiastic.
And so I can imagine that as our listeners are, are listening to this conversation, they're already imagining themselves at a book club and coming up with that perfect word or imagining, you know, how silly it is. The one thing that I would like to kind of [00:15:00] reiterate too is that the illustrations are so helpful in your book as well.
And so how, can you tell us a little bit about how these illustrations boost the comprehension of the definitions that you have in your book?
Colette Hiller: Yes, I wanted. there to be a visual aid to the word. So the illustration isn't just decorative, it's showing you what the word is. It's echoing it. So the word effervescent is inside a glass of busy water.
And for acrimonious, two characters are arguing across the verse. And for meander, Amanda is meandering off the page. And so wherever possible, you're getting a very clear visual stimulus. And in addition, sorry so the visual stimulus that you can, that will prompt memory. I was going to say one other thing, which was that in addition, many of the rhymes.[00:16:00]
You're not going to remember the entire rhyme and you're not expected to but they will have a couplet that you do remember. So I can do this with both of you. Now, the first thing when teaching a word is to teach them to say it without knowing what it means and here's how I do it. So let's do a call and response with both of you.
F. F. F. F. So you both do it together. I go F, you go F. F oh F effer,
all speakers: effer, effer,
Colette Hiller: effer,
all speakers: effer,
Colette Hiller: effer, effervescent.
all speakers: Effervescent. Cent cent
Colette Hiller: effervescent. Eff effervescent scent. Now I'm going to read the rhyme and you know how to say the word, and I'm gonna bring you to say the word, the word is
Shannon Betts: effervescent.
Colette Hiller: Ve.
And with a bit more, a bit more oomph now. Effervescent. Excellent. [00:17:00] Effervescent. It may sound complicated, but the fact is, it is not. Say effervescent. Slowly, you can hear the bubbles. When some things Effervescent. It's not difficult to tell. Some drinks are effervescent. And some people are as well. When somebody is bubbly and sparkly and pleasant and they fizz like Coca Cola, you could say they're effervescent.
And then there's a couplet in there which you might do with the children which is like You repeat after me.
all speakers: Pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop,
Colette Hiller: pop. Fizzy and sorry. Effervescent. Pop, pop, pop, pop. Fizzy and pleasant. Pop, pop, pop, pop,
all speakers: pop. Eff, [00:18:00] scent, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop and pleasant. Pop, pop, pop, pop, pop. Pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop is fizzy and pleasant.
Colette Hiller: Pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop. So you got that little couplet and then you casually bring it in.
Did you want to drink water or would you rather have an effervescent drink? What's effervescent? Effervescent, pop, pop, pop, pop, and they were
Shannon Betts: pleasant, yes.
Mary Saghafi: This is wonderful, really helpful information too. I think that especially, I've been doing a little bit more work in preschools, and this is, you know, Just so spot on to the type of work that preschool teachers typically do, and I think it gets lost a bit when we move into primary elementary school.
Colette Hiller: It's really funny, we stop teaching words at a certain point. With babies and small [00:19:00] children, we teach them words all the time. I mean, they're learning language and they're imbibing it in many ways. When they come to sort of second grade, the words that we teach are really, really meat and potatoes words.
They really are. So they're not getting words. They're getting words like Oh,
just nothing to get them excited. Words that they need to know. So the point is that A child of 10 doesn't need to know a word like capacious, although they have a capacious mind, they don't need to know, but they like knowing. So why are we depriving them.
Mary Saghafi: Yes, they can get through life but if we want to accentuate the level that they're reading or the The level of understanding with exactness that we talk about with English words.
Yes. And, and how the, the degree of a word can change. Yeah. The, the by the meaning you know, shades of Meaning is [00:20:00] something that Shannon and I have recently talked about on our Patreon Mm-Hmm. account as well. And so the, the Shades of Meaning is something I think. Teachers often maybe don't closely teach us.
Colette Hiller: Which is crazy because it's like if you were an art student and you had one shade of blue, you'd be limited. Yes. And a shade of blue isn't just how diluted it is. There are hues of blues and they're all different.
Mary Saghafi: I, I think it just, it, it, it talks to the level of We're so bound to the curriculum that is placed in front of us.
And so I think that the ability for some teachers to be able to plan and think outside of the box or think into meaning of words so deeply, or even have the You know, topics like this modeled more frequently within a classroom. I think it kind of depends on the interest level of the teacher as well.
And so that you know, if it's something that's innate in a teacher, and they happen to be a [00:21:00] person who loves words and wants to really dive in and, and share this information with older students, you may have one or two teachers that you can recall who may have used more grand vocabulary words throughout your time.
But it's not always. It's not always the case.
Colette Hiller: Right. It's not, it's not usually, but up until now, when we see how people do get new words, the teacher uses a big word, and if they say, what does that mean, which they may not, I don't think I ever asked a teacher what something meant. It just, it was getting through to what they were saying.
But they haven't had, they've had lists. If you think of a vocabulary list, It's very, I was an actress for many years. It takes a long time to learn lines. It takes a long time to learn a poem if you're reciting and it takes a good week for me to learn an eight line poem so that I'm comfortable with it.
So so how would they learn 15 words on a vocabulary list when they're given just [00:22:00] the words and they're awfully dull and they're all sort of similar to each other. That's not a good way, but there haven't been really. different things. There was the dictionary or lists. This is the first time that I know of, and I do think it's a bit of a game changer to define by rhyme.
And I think that it makes it a different experience for the person teaching and for the people being taught. And it is just not like medicine.
Shannon Betts: Hello listeners, it's Shannon here, and I want to take a quick moment to tell you about one way I'm committing to my health this year. I've started making green chef meals again, and my family and I are loving them.
The food is delicious and easy to prepare. There's tons of sauces and spices and other ways to add flavor to the meals. There are also tons of gluten free options for me each week. I use the app a lot. It makes it easy to make changes to the menu choices and pause a week if needed. The great news is they've given me free boxes to give away.
So if you're [00:23:00] interested in trying Green Chef, head to the show notes for this episode to get the link. Or you can visit www. readingteacherslounge. com backslash quick links and click on the button for Green Chef. Happy cooking! Watch our stories on Instagram to see some of the meals I'm making.
Mary Saghafi: Yes, I, I think that that point is, is very true and it's when, when you can include play and you know, multi senses because this is creating a really rich visual.
It's creating this like amazing sound play that is happening. It changes the game. So I'm wondering what teaching tips can you share with our listeners? I will share some.
Colette Hiller: So.
Mary Saghafi: I'm, I'm so excited. I'm delighted too, because I have to admit in this. I have to spark a little joy because my daughter had said, do you think if I took this book to school that my teacher would allow us to act it out?
And she happens to be of a little bit of a dramatic flair too.
Colette Hiller: Oh, that's so nice. [00:24:00] You really can. And I, I I'm going to just describe something before I just go on to the pointers, which is, it's a great idea to act it out. And I've done lots of We've been trialing these in English schools and doing lots of acting out.
For example the word acrimonious. And I just use my hands to show two people, they're nice, there they are having a happy conversation. And here they are having an acrimonious one. So, when a conversation is not the least harmonious, but full of angry bitterness, we say it's acrimonious. So, small mimes is a great way to, a great way to do it.
And I feel sure that your daughter and her class, Grade 3, could choose some of the simpler words in the book and recite them to much younger children. First graders even, [00:25:00] and to make those words come alive. So even the word that we just did, effervescent, well you wouldn't think a six year old could do it.
But why not? If they can understand the concept of a bubbly drink. They can get their mouth around effervescent and they will enjoy it. So the whole thing is about giving them a love of words and in order to do that You need to give them words that are distinct and feel like a treat I'm going to give you i'm just going to read one rhyme now, and then i'm going to give you some tips I'm going to read The one that I said was my favorite to your daughter so that it's there.
And the picture in this book, it's for Volatile, has Henry VIII looking at a wheel and he's spinning it to see is he in a happy hip hopping mood or a head chopping mood. Happy happy mood, head chopping mood. Depends on which way he wicks up. So here's the rhyme. Volatile. [00:26:00] And I'm going to bring you in, Mary.
When somebody is volatile, their mood just switches like a dial. At first, they're nice. Then suddenly, they're as mean as mean can be. Henry VIII was volatile. He'd seem friendly for a while. Then his mood would change instead and he'd go chop off someone's head.
Shannon Betts: It's lovely. And I love too that that's building background knowledge.
I mean, I'm sure Henry VIII is very well known to every child in England, but in America, not so much. And so I'm sure if I had read that to like my second grade class or something, they would have been like, Oh, goodness. Did he really chop off people's heads? And then I
Colette Hiller: could, yes, you know, and even his
Shannon Betts: wives, you know, and then that could, you know, spark so much you know, further study and, you know, like a bunch of extra books that are read as follow up, you know, just as a study [00:27:00] place, right.
Colette Hiller: Absolutely. And sort of one more response to Mary's daughter about acting. I just thought about the word testy, which is a very short one. And so we did this with the children acting it out. And what they were acting out was somebody feeling hard done to foisting up their foisting up their arms.
And Looking very hard, hard done by where everybody else said for testy pointing to she was in the middle of a circle. It doesn't take much to irritate Betsy, she's annoyed easily, Betsy is testy. And they really enjoyed that they took turns being in the middle being the testy person. So, acting it out is spot on and it's exactly it's exactly what you want to be.
We also did
Inconspicuous, which is, we did it with somebody wearing a red wig. [00:28:00] If you apply to be a spy, be sure you don't stand out. Don't call attention to yourself. Don't wave your arms about. Do not wear a purple wig or anything ridiculous. A spy must try to blend right in. They must look inconspicuous. And you can imagine that thing that I said in the beginning.
You say the word before you do the rhyme. In, incon, inconspic, inconspicuous, inconspicuous. And you might spend five minutes getting that word right. happy on the tongue, so that when it's time to bring in, you bring them in.
So, these are some so the, sorry, I just say, the words in the book, they're 75, and they they're big, and the important thing is that they're useful words, and they range from capacious to voracious, [00:29:00] and as your daughter's excellent question, they're usually taught in high schools. Now younger children can easily enjoy them.
There's some words like penultimate, which are marvelously specific. Really, who would want to say second to last once you've learned that word? It's just nice to use. Other words are just rhythmic to say aloud, like discombobulated. And those are often the words that children are taught when they're taught big words.
They're sort of busy sounding words, but not necessarily useful. But I wanted to put that one in. And there are. Other words, like unbiased, which have a natural resonance with children because what child doesn't understand the principle of fairness. And I will read unbiased. Unbiased. A teacher can't have favorites.
[00:30:00] They must be just and fair. They shouldn't be especially nice to people with red hair. They can't be friendlier to some, or treat one child the highest. They mustn't favor anyone. They have to be unbiased. Now, knowing that word is also empowering, because let's say a teacher wasn't unbiased. Knowing that word would empower a child, because they could put their finger on At least in their head, what was wrong.
Now, some of the pointers for parents are this. First of all, start from the principle that helping your child develop a rich vocabulary is easy. It's, it's like teaching them to teach. It's like Teaching them to like cake. It's not hard. They are natural and they're ready to go. This is all about delight.
You're not force feeding them spinach. Your job is [00:31:00] to share your delight and pleasure and to serve up lovely word treats. So, first, choose the right time. If a child is distracted or happy with a friend, you're not going to say, is now a good time to learn and find rhyme? No, it's not a good time. You know it isn't.
So, you have to choose a right time, just like any of us, when they're receptive. But if you force it, you defeat the fun. So, no point in that. Number two. Don't do any heavy lifting, leave the dull banal words like descriptive, leave them right behind. Let somebody else do those humdrum words. Your job is to choose a terrific word that your child will like using and will have an opportunity to use.
teach them to say the word itself before doing the rhyme. And that, take time, four or five minutes to do that so that you're doing a word [00:32:00] like um, like contrite. It's, it's not familiar on the tongue. Contrite, contrite, contrite, contrite. And keep on saying it with sounds and even sing it magnanimous.
It takes a while to get your head, tongue around that. Magnanimous. So the word is fun and has to be responded and saying it. Next, this is important, read the rhyme aloud. Allowed, allowed, allowed. It's written to be read aloud. And bring them in to say the key word as it comes up in the rhyme. But by then they'll have learned to say it beforehand.
So that when it comes up they'll be ready to say it.
Some of the words have quotes, which might be from a book where you see the word in context or from a writer. Take time to look at those and have a little chat about them because it's your shared discussion that's really [00:33:00] important. And finally, Use the word all week. Slip it into discussion wherever possible.
Everyone in the family. And points are accrued. So, you're looking effervescent today, Mum.
Mary Saghafi: I hope so. I hope I get that. This teddy
Colette Hiller: bear doesn't look at all effervescent.
Mary Saghafi: Yes, exactly. It looks like you could use a wash. So it's not as effervescent as it usually looks. Maybe it will become effervescent as it's in the wash.
Colette Hiller: So so that is all true. And I think if those kind of basic rules are followed.
It is inevitable that your child will develop a delight in words, which lead, leads me to the word inevitable. Inevitably, inevitably, and I'll bring you in. Take a [00:34:00] big jump in the deep blue sea and you'll get wet.
all speakers: Inevitably. If you happen to eat
Colette Hiller: more than you should.
all speakers: Inevitably. It won't feel good. If you get struck by a falling tree,
Colette Hiller: you'll get swashed.
Inevitably. By now you'll see, inevitably, is when something is bound to be. By now you'll see, inevitably, is when something is bound to be.
Shannon Betts: Beautiful. That's really lovely. What I like about these is that Even I was forgetting a syllable sometimes when I was singing inevitably, and our students do that a lot, like when I hear students read multi syllable words, they'll leave off like a middle syllable, but the rhyme won't flow correctly if they do that.
And so this is helping with that precision of oral speech and working on fluency as well.
Colette Hiller: Right, and the [00:35:00] rhymes are written so that they, there's one or two glitches, but mostly they should. pretty much fall off the tongue. And and then it's up to you, the parent, the teacher, to keep bringing that word in.
And one thing that was very nice in the primary school where I trialed these over a month, that, The teacher said they were using the words all the time in written work, but that what was really interesting was that she could hear them in the playground. So, retaliate was coming up in the playground.
That's so cute. Yeah, yeah. So, you know, that really was so, so gratifying to hear really. And, you know, and sometimes you're also. It's philosophical, too, because the word contrite is interesting. I wish children are often asked to say sorry, and there's a difference to say [00:36:00] sorry when you mean it, and sorry when you don't quite, and I think we've all been in those places, but by having the word contrite, and I'll read the rhyme in a moment, it also makes children think about what is that to be sorry.
So here is contrite. If you've done something wrong that you know wasn't right, but you're ever so sorry, then you are
Shannon Betts: contrite.
Colette Hiller: If you're really contrite, there really can't be any kind of but attached to your apology. I'm sorry but isn't contrite. It's just an excuse to insist you are right.
Mary Saghafi: I've used that one a time or two actually recently between my two daughters.
I love that. The other one that I will share with you that's been a topic at our dinner table is idiosyncrasy. So we're being very specific about which family [00:37:00] member's idiosyncrasy we're talking about. Speaking of, and mine happens to be that I lose my phone all the time. I set it down and never remember where it is.
So they have insisted that on my gravestone it will say, where's my phone? And so,
Colette Hiller: That's so nice. That really is so nice.
Mary Saghafi: It was so easy for them to say, well, we know what mom's video sync is, and so, love this. It's beautiful.
Colette Hiller: And, you know, I'm sure that your daughter will start using these words in what she's saying and what she's writing.
And so I think it was very interesting to hear you both felt, you know, a terrific thing when you can find the right word for something, and I think we all do. And I think that that includes children, and this is giving them an opportunity.
Shannon Betts: I think I agree with you that I think that we need to revolutionize the way we introduce words to students and the way we teach vocabulary.
However, until that revolution [00:38:00] happens, I really do like, you know, we're kind of in this middle place, but we could use your book as a hook, you know, where like you choose one word, like the testy one, for example, it would take, you know, five, 10 minutes to introduce that poem as like your little hook You know, into the lesson.
And then you could teach shades of meaning from that word, you know, is it annoyed? Is it angry? Are they testy? Like where would testy fit in this degree of intensity? That's a list of words. And then some other ones like unbiased and some of the other words you referenced had a ton of prefixes and suffixes in them.
And so there would be a great jumping off point for any morphology lesson.
Colette Hiller: Right, right. And I think it's important that there's no right order. You choose a book, a word that at that time and the way they're feeling will appeal to them. Because the alphabet starts with A, you don't have to, and then the book runs from A to Z, you don't have to, you can just [00:39:00] jump in.
And, you know, I, I just looking at disingenuous, I actually think that might be one of my favorites because it's, We meet so many people who are disingenuous. Therefore, knowing the word is really like you think, Oh, I know what you are. You're a disingenuous. And it just, it makes you feel less furious. Just knowing the word.
But I'll read this rhyme because I like it. Do you want to come in with it? Or should I read it without? A thing that's disingenuous is something that's misleading. It isn't really genuine. It's meant to be deceiving. Something disingenuous seems honest on the surface then leads you up the garden path, which is its very purpose.
The wolf said to Red Riding Hood, You look so sweet, my dear. But he was disingenuous. That wolf was insincere. For when he said that [00:40:00] she looked sweet, the thing he didn't mention was she looked sweet enough to eat. And that was his intention. That's beautiful.
Shannon Betts: You have other words in there too, like insincere, that are, you know, two vocabulary words.
Of course, and so, well, I didn't You're learning more than one word at a time.
Colette Hiller: Well, well spotted. I mean, synonyms throughout and they will pick them up and even this, yes, so you, you absolutely pick them up without being heavy handed about it, right? So, a thing that's disingenuous is misleading. You look at the word misleading, I don't think anyone's going to raise their hand and say, what does that mean?
And it just comes, it's not genuine, it's deceiving and it, They sort of say what they are by the way they're there. So, without making them feel, Oh my gosh, there's 20 words in this rhyme that I don't know. Not at all. So I think
I [00:41:00] think that's a very natural way to absorb. I think that's how we naturally do absorb words. When the context is clear.
Mary Saghafi: Well, and not to mention that you add this dash of silliness to it. That is such a great way to, you know, just, I I hook the reader and be playful. And when play is involved, play is hard work and hard learning for children.
And so it doesn't really matter if they're 10 or if they're five, the silliness will hook anyone. And that's, that's the beautiful part.
Colette Hiller: sense of fun that will hook you both to listen to it. If it's dull, if it's a predictable, just smarmy rhyme, it's like, well, fine, but I'm, you know, not very interested, but if something's interesting enough to sit up and listen to, then that's what we're aspiring to for both parent and child.
Mary Saghafi: Yes. Yeah, exactly, because it's going to spark something and spark a conversation either that the child initiates or the adult [00:42:00] initiates and then that connection is formed and meaningful connections happen right with words and with emotions and things like that and it ties it.
Colette Hiller: The last thing, the thing that the parent or teacher is to give the child Is that your word is your wand, you know, you can do things with it.
And too often, they ask children to be descriptive and I have twins and my one of my son at a young age of eight or so didn't like the idea of having to be descriptive. He was very, very smart and I told him the word brevity. that you can be concise. And he said then, I want to write with brevity and elegance.
And that's how he's, he's, you know he went to Cambridge. You know what I mean? That was how he decided that was how he wanted to write. So I think we often tell children, we want you to be descriptive and they feel that they've got to shove in [00:43:00] 10, 000 adjectives and it's artificial and they're trying to be poetic.
But of course, good writings about accuracy and truth in some way, even if it's fiction. And we want them to get their own style and to look at words, not as ornamentation, but somehow something other than that, I think.
Mary Saghafi: I really like this. I I have to commend you also because you have a second book, too, that came before this one, the Bee on the Thumb, and you have this little blurb in this book, and it's a collectso Bee on the Thumb really speaks to more phonics rules, and it's a collection of rhymes.
to help children learn to read and spell, and the ditties are for children just mastering their letter sounds, and magic spells for more able readers. Beautiful! I love that. Using wordplay, rhythm, a dash of silliness, these rhymes boost literacy and thinking skills, but [00:44:00] most of all, they aim to delight children, to spark information, and instill a love of the English language.
Which is true for both books, so I would say you hit the nail on the head with both of them, and I think also the brevity of it, the conciseness of the words, it's something that you can pick up and read just a few words at a time leave it on your coffee table for your children to enjoy and pick up every now and then that was a lovely experience for my family I will share.
I also think, so. This is just a little side advice, but every year I always get the same gift and I tend to give that to all of the children who have birthday parties
all speakers: because
Mary Saghafi: it unloads my mental load for that. But I had shared that I was going to share your book because I think that this is something that could belong in all homes just as nursery rhymes do.
As children grow and age because wordplay is so fun for, [00:45:00] for children and adults. And so I just, I have to commend you. I'm so happy about this. That's so nice to hear,
Colette Hiller: Mary. That really is such a lovely, lovely thing. And I think the image that you just, Painted of the whole family liking it is, is one that really warms me.
One of the preview reviews that hasn't been reviewed yet, but some of the previews said that she was reading it in the kitchen aloud to her younger child. And then soon the whole family gravitated and started leaning on the doorway and listening and adding things. And that is like, sort of like what you said.
And yeah, that was just so nice to hear.
Mary Saghafi: And
Colette Hiller: yeah, really nice.
Mary Saghafi: Well, I genuinely mean it. And it, I mean, my daughter happens to love books, but also she really just picked up and loved your book so much. So I, I love sharing that with authors, because what a joy that your work is so meaningful.
Colette Hiller: Yeah, really.
I mean, that's what it's all about. And you rarely get to hear it. So I much appreciate that.
Shannon Betts: So Colette, I have a question. Normally we start our [00:46:00] episodes asking people about their history and their experience, but we're going to kind of end it here. Cause I'm very curious, like, you know, have you always been a natural wordsmith?
Have you always had this love of words? Like how did all of this come out of your imagination and your experience?
Colette Hiller: Well, for many years I was an actress and my parents are English, but I, I, I came to England as a young teenager and I, I came with the Broadway show, Annie as an adult and and joined the Royal Shakespeare company and spent many years.
shredding the boards. And but all the time I was working also as a journalist and and then spent 10 years at the BBC producing education programs and all sorts of different ones and, um, within imaginative learning. So my thrust was really how do we make children, how do we enhance their imagination and to find new ways of making learning effective.
And [00:47:00] then I spent 10 years there and then I spent Another 10 years doing big public space projects. In fact, I did a big one in Chicago not long ago called Talking Statues and it was a very big project where we commissioned leading writers in Chicago people like Shonda Rhimes. and all sorts of people Dave Chappelle, not Dave Chappelle, Dave
there's a whole list of that famous people and I've just left in my mind but they wrote monologues for famous statues across Chicago and you swipe your phone on a plaque near the statue and you get a call from Shonda Rhimes as Miss Picasso or whoever the thing was and you hear Then, what they're doing there, how they came to be, you get to learn something about the statue, but from this.
this this new approach. I also produced a project that's gone across the world. The Pianas in the Street was my project first in London and then it's moved to many cities across the world. So [00:48:00] I've done many big public space projects and in the last few years I've been focusing just on children's books.
So I have The Bee on Your Thumb and this one and a couple of new ones that are coming up after this. So, the other ones, the new ones after this are, are not word books they're, they're other kinds of books, but for young children.
Mary Saghafi: Lovely.
Colette Hiller: So, yeah.
Mary Saghafi: What an amazing life you've led. Oh, listen, I'm sure all of our lives, when we
Colette Hiller: say what
Shannon Betts: we've done, it all sounds richer than it is.
No, it's, I think we have one of those pianos on the street on the Beltline. We do.
Mary Saghafi: There's a number of them around the Atlanta area where Shannon and I live, and so, that's That's right.
Colette Hiller: It was, you know. One of the things that America does better than England is that people are sort of jollier.
And so when we put the pianos in the streets in London, the aim really was to [00:49:00] create a more convivial atmosphere and it worked, you know, it really did. And then we did the same. We installed a thousand ping pong tables in public spaces and again, easy ways to get involved. And there's something a little bit similar about all those projects.
And. These kinds of literacy projects in as much as the reach is wide and you're reaching in a new way and in a playful way and an inviting way. So in a You wouldn't think that there was a connection between pianos in the street and colossal words, but in an odd way, there is.
Mary Saghafi: I think that's great. I just, I think it's so wonderful.
Shannon Betts: I also love that you did the word effervescent on our episode because you know Atlanta is the birthplace of Coca Cola. Oh,
Mary Saghafi: perfect. That's true. That is a good point. And,
Colette Hiller: and, but you don't want your children to drink too much of it. No, this is true.
Mary Saghafi: Don't worry, they have many fizzy opportunities here around, as long as it has the Coke brand in it, [00:50:00] at least
Colette Hiller: in Atlanta.
Yeah, yeah, Pepsi's kind of banned
Mary Saghafi: here.
Colette Hiller: But also, by the way, on FFS, the opposite is often true. funnier so that if you, if you and your child see someone who's very ploddy, you might say, they weren't at all effervescent, were they?
Mary Saghafi: I love that. Yeah, that's, that's such a good way you know, to kind of chat about it.
I, the ideas that you've kind of put forth, I think, can really spark some ideas and our listeners for sure. And I think this is going to be a great episode. It's very I don't know. Uplifting as well. This is
Shannon Betts: Colette. Colette, you're like, as delightful as you're writing in your projects. Oh, very much.
It just, it comes off the Zoom. It really does. .
Colette Hiller: Oh, that's so nice. I'm really awful. Underneath ,
Shannon Betts: there's that British self-deprecation.
Mary Saghafi: Oh, well it was lovely to chat with you. Thank you so much. Maybe we can have you on again and with your next.
Colette Hiller: Yes. I would absolutely love that and I would love to hear back from your daughter and I was, to hear [00:51:00] what she likes and, and perhaps to, um, have a little exchange with her.
Mary Saghafi: Oh, that's wonderful. Thank you for that. That's really sweet. Thank you.
Colette Hiller: Good. So, I, I wonder if there's something I should.