Pioneers Podcast by Lyreco
The podcast from Lyreco that explores the Future of Work, from Lyreco's innovation team.
Each episode we talk to a pioneer of the future of work, exploring the themes and trends that will shape the workplaces of tomorrow.
Pioneers Podcast by Lyreco
Designing a Future Where Workwear Works for Everyone
Workwear should be a tool that helps you do your job safely and comfortably, yet for women across numerous industries, ill-fitting protective equipment remains a daily frustration. In this special episode recorded at the Future of Work event in Brussels, we explore the often-overlooked world of gender-specific workwear with two experts at the forefront of this issue.
Lena Bay-Høyland, Product Director at Fristads, reveals that while women's workwear has existed for decades, awareness and accessibility remain the biggest hurdles. "It's there, but somehow, miraculously, we don't notice," she explains. Meanwhile, Martyna, Lyreco's UK Innovation Ambassador and previous winner of our Pioneers program for her work on this very issue, describes the real-world challenges women face when forced to wear men's workwear in professional settings.
The conversation unveils fascinating insights into corporate purchasing behaviors that perpetuate these problems, with many companies opting for the simplicity of ordering a single product line rather than accommodating different body types. We also explore surprising specialized options that many don't realize exist – from maternity PPE to flame-retardant religious accommodations.
Most exciting is Fristads' innovative solution launching in 2026: gender-inclusive workwear offering both men's and women's fits under a single product code. This approach not only simplifies purchasing decisions but addresses sustainability challenges caused by inefficient production of women's sizes while creating more inclusive workplaces for everyone.
Whether you're responsible for workwear purchasing decisions, interested in workplace equality, or simply curious about how something as seemingly straightforward as protective clothing intersects with important issues of gender, sustainability and inclusion, this episode offers valuable perspectives on creating workplaces where everyone can perform at their best.
Welcome to the Pioneers podcast by Lyreco. I'm Marc Curtis. Each edition, we're talking to pioneers in their own fields. We're talking to business leaders, entrepreneurs, thought leaders, keynote speakers basically anybody who's got something interesting to say about the workplace and is pioneering the way we think about the future of work. Today's podcast is a little bit different in format, so, although I'm recording this introduction a couple of days later, the podcast was actually recorded during the Future of Work event in Brussels on the 5th of June. If you've listened to any of the previous podcasts that we've recorded, you'll know that the Future of Work event is something that we've been planning for quite a long time. We've had some incredible speakers. The event itself was fantastic. I really enjoyed it. I met some fantastic people.
Marc:The talks were amazing as well, but in the middle of all of that, we managed to find time to arrange a conversation between Lina Bay-Hoyland, who has previously been on the podcast. She is product director for FreedStats. We spoke at some length before on the podcast about was the special work or the specific work that they do around gender-specific workwear or workwear for women, so I thought it'd be really, really interesting to have Lina catch up with Martina. Now Martina is our innovation ambassador in the UK, so that means she works with me and my team to help support innovation activities across the whole of Lyreco and specifically in her own country. But, even more interestingly, martina, a couple years ago, was one of the winners of Lyreco Pioneers, our internal incubation and entrepreneurial program, and her project specifically was all around how to increase awareness and also support the topic of work where, for women, they're both experts in their field. So there really wasn't any point in me getting in between that conversation other than to other than to get them started on on the on the podcast and ask them an initial question.
Marc:So really, really interesting chat. I've already listened to it myself and there's so much in there. Really interesting chat. I've already listened to it myself and and there's so much in there there's so many interesting uh topics around workwear for women, the lack of understanding the work that fridstats are doing to create truly um, usable products for both men and women that fit and that's the key point about workwear for women is is producing producing garments that women can wear in a variety of different work scenarios and not feel that they're having to make do with products that are really only designed for men. So I hope you enjoy the next 40 minutes or so of Lina and Martina talking about Workwear for Women.
Marc:So I'm delighted to be joined again by Lina from Fridstats. Those of you who've already listened to podcast will have heard the conversation that I had with Lina about sustainability and workwear. But there's another topic that is really interesting, both to Lyreco, to Fridstats and also to one of our previous Lyreco Pioneers winners, to one of our previous Lyreco Pioneers winners, martina. Martina successfully won Lyreco Pioneers a couple of years ago with her project to spread more information and increase availability of gender-specific workwear, and that's workwear for women, something that it turns out is actually not particularly either well understood or well distributed amongst the various companies who buy workwear, uniforms, protective equipment and so forth. So this is going to be a conversation between Lina and Martina. I'll leave them to introduce themselves and I suppose my first question to Martina is since Lyreco Pioneers, has anything changed? Have you seen any material improvements in what we're doing with WorkWear for Women?
Martyna:Thank you, marc. So my name is Martina and I'm working for Lyreco in WISE at the moment and our project started two years ago when we, with Debra from Lyrica Sweden, started to recognize the problem with female walkwear. So I've got a background and I'm still working in a warehouse, so I feel the pain. I felt the pain from the very start. So this is how the whole idea really started. We've noticed, well, there is a PPE for women especially, but we sell it as a company, but in the same time there's not enough awareness. So our project in general started from the awareness. We wanted to not only have people aware about the pains, the problems a female may have in different industries during their working hours, but also do we really have it on the market?
Marc:And that's a really good point to introduce Lena back into the conversation as well, because, as I think we've already discussed, fridstads has a very progressive attitude to how we provision gender-specific workwear, so I'm going to leave Lina and Martina to talk more about women's workwear, or workwear for women, over to you guys.
Lena:And thank you, mark, thank you, martina, for inviting me to this podcast. My name is Lina Hoyland and I'm a product director of Freestess. And back to the question if the assortment of women workwear exists on the market. Yes, to a very high extent, and it actually has been there for many, many, many decades, so it's not very new. And just as you say, martina, awareness is the key. And if I come back to the story of Freestess, I have not been in the company back then, but I think it was at the beginning of 2000 where we launched the Pink Workwear Collection, where we launched the skirt with the hanging pockets for tools, to you know, to stand out, to show that, yes, we are there, because this is what we wanted to do back then to bring it to attention.
Martyna:But wasn't that the part of this very popular bias? Just pink it and shrink it?
Lena:I think it was about more like a statement. It was not really usable in a way. I mean, workwear is a tool for you to show your corporate identity. In a way, you would like it to look corporate, to look good, to look professional. So working, you know, coming to work. In a way, you would like it to look corporate, to look good, to look professional, so working, you know. Coming to work in a skirt, in a pink short skirt with the, with the tool pocket, was not really, was not really the hit, but it definitely brought, brought it to attention, it definitely was something people remembered. So since then we were remembered as the brand who actually has the women workwear collection.
Martyna:And and there it all started- so you're in this industry, in walkwear industry, for a very long time now, and so can you tell us what changes have you seen over the years in a female walkwear, especially um?
Lena:it grew, uh and and the demand is there, but not yet as high still as in men workwear. I would say, when you look into the market in general to our competitors that everyone has some kind of workwear for women in their assortment, some bigger, some to a smaller extent, but it is there, so it's much bigger. The variety is definitely bigger these days than it was, for instance, for 10 years ago. As I see it in the mud.
Martyna:So what is the problem then, if the amount is there but you still don't see the cell as you would like to see?
Lena:Yeah, it's a question I'm asking myself all the time because it is actually a problem for us. It's a question I'm asking myself all the time because it is actually a problem for us. I think that one of the problem is that maybe, when the workwear is purchased, it's easier to just go for one article number. You know, it's a T-shirt, women can just take it in size S and XS and we don't need it for. You know, for one T-shirt for women, one T-shirt for men. I think that sometimes maybe it's just a choice.
Lena:Secondly, I also do believe that some women prefer to wear men's workwear because they maybe think that the women's workwear is too tight, too curved. You know, maybe it's. You know, I need more, I need more space to move. You know, I don't want it to be too tight, I don't want to stand out, whatever. So it could be some which is a myth, because when we design women workwear, we definitely don't make it too tight and definitely not too curved, because of course, we make it for a female body to make sure that she, her working day, is as comfortable and as practical as the one for men. But it can be a perception which stops them from buying the women's sizes and just going for men's sizes. So that could be the explanation, I guess.
Martyna:Is the explanation also of the reason for not seeing the sale that sometimes, probably for most companies who hire um a large number of employees, they actually have um either men only, or the bigger part of the uh, the workforce is a man and they decide actually not to go for female because it's either additional costs, additional SKUs and so on. So they decide, oh, for this small percentage of the people working here, we'll just. So there's a person behind the purchase who actually say no, we'll stay where we are.
Lena:Yeah, exactly, and that's what we probably experience now. That's why we are not selling as much women workwear. You have to be really pushy at your working place to get there, to get out there and say, no, I want to wear workwear for female. I'm not going to settle in this case, I'm not going to wear the men workwear. Different companies are different and also, actually, I can see, geographically it also differs from country to country.
Lena:Now we are the Swedish brand, so in Sweden there are a lot of women in different working places. So it's even craftsmen, carpenters, for instance. You can find women. You see a lot of women as driver, truck drivers, etc. So it's becoming more and more gender neutral. I would say the marketplace, and then you'd say the bigger, bigger companies, um, I brought for, for instance, an example, scania this this morning when I was talking about sustainability. They do invest into, into women work well, to extent that they even, um, ask us to produce, uh, special underwear for flame retardant products. They are down to different accessories like Like, if you're, for instance, for religion reasons, need to hedge up in a multi non-protective material. That's what we are doing for them. So you know, it's there, it does exist, it's not a myth.
Martyna:So people just have to really ask for those products. But also, it's still, I think, and you probably agree with me, there's still a problem with the awareness that, for example, when we were doing the project and I was talking to different fields, different customers, different people around asking, oh, what project are you doing? And I mentioned WorkWell for Women and maternity PPE especially it's still a very controversial topic I would say they will say, oh really, I didn't know there was maternity PPE, I didn't know there was a religious requirement or anything, and you can actually accommodate it within your PPE and you can give everybody a chance to actually join the industry they want. So I think there is a big, big work to do around that awareness, don't you think?
Lena:true, true. And then we do have maternity trousers actually now in our range and it's different kinds, but one of the maternity trousers we have is actually for the flame retardant multinorm protection. Yes, and every time I present the assortment as such, telling a lot about what kind of workwear we have in Multinorm, that we do have all the accessories for women, down to underwear. We do have hijab, we have all these kind of accessories. We also have the maternity trouser. The first question most of the users ask me are you even allowed to work when you're pregnant? Yes, you are allowed to work when you're pregnant. Yes, you are allowed to work if and you're pregnant you need to be properly protected. So that's why we have it. So it is so new that people sometimes they even wonder whether it's not just a joke. You know it's. Do you really mean it? So yes, we do.
Martyna:That's great to hear and I saw loads of very good brands who actually introducing the, the maternity walkway. One of your products is maternity as well. And it's amazing to see and actually women will ask for it, and that's my experience that women who are in that different stages of life, you know, when they are pregnant they still want to be at work, they still want to be useful. They don't want to be all of a sudden moved to the don't know boring office job or just go to uh, be forced to use their maternity alien because the company can't protect them, um, appropriately. So again, there is a question, uh to the, to the companies like yours do you have it? Yes, and the question is for most, for the answer for most of this is yes, yes, we do have it, for years, probably.
Martyna:But going to your presentation today and sustainability, because probably most of the people think okay, well, me as an employer, I want to provide that kind of products to the females or the person who is pregnant at the moment, but this is almost like a one-off purchase. It's very rarely what this happens. We'll say Especially that female, usually the smaller percentage in a company. So that will bring the topic of how sustainable it is. Can we actually do something about it and can we reuse them?
Lena:When it comes to maternity trousers just about this topic yes, one of the services we offer our customers is actually to bring it so they can reuse it, because you're also pregnant for a short period of time and then you have to go on maternity leave so you cannot worn it out in a way. So this type of workwear which is very short-term use and then you still can reuse and we do have a sustainability service, a reuse service in general, not only for maternity clothes but also for normal workwear that you can return it to us and we will refurbish it and then you can buy it again with uh, with uh, yeah, reused, but still a good as new is that you can use it longer time. I think the sustainability issue is not so much when it comes to women work, where it's not so much in in, in small items like maternity trouser, but in general, because when awareness is not there and we know that we need to have it in our assortment, because, one, it's a competition parameter. Two, because we really and truly believe for the last two decades that it why one day will actually come through. We keep on developing workwear for women and every time we do that, we offer it and it's the same style as for men.
Lena:The problem is that when the purchaser decides to only go for men's style and some maybe will buy some for women the sales are quite low. So I don't remember the numbers off the top of my head, but I would have a trouser which sells 10,000 pieces in the male version and perhaps maybe 500 pieces in the woman version. So when you start replenishing the woman trouser, just to keep up to make sure that you have availability, you sometimes end up in discussion with suppliers about the minimum order quantities, about one size you need. If you're missing one size, then you need to order maybe 250 or 500 pieces again. So you're kind of like accumulating the snowball You're overproducing to deliver this availability to them.
Lena:And that actually, when we were making the calculation of our scope, three raised the question how can we solve that? So we got this idea and we are going to launch it next year as a pilot. Next year, freestess is going to come on the market with a product which is workwear. It's not workwear for men and it's not workwear for women, it's just workwear. Call it gender neutral. It's a t-shirt which will come in different sizes, so when the customer is coming on our webpage or wherever he's buying t-shirt, he would be able to buy it in men's sizes and in women's sizes under the same article number.
Martyna:I love it. This is a very innovative approach.
Lena:Exactly so. We are hoping that this innovative approach will be accepted by our customers and they will also see the benefit of it, because I see actually a solution to two problems. Number one is that the purchaser will still buy it because he will have to buy it for all the men, so it doesn't matter. It exists in women's sizes, so it will be there delivered. You know, they have to just deliberately. They can, of course, deliberately choose not to buy it. That's their choice, but it will be available and, no matter what, a woman can choose the size in the female fit which fits her best.
Lena:Secondly, I believe that we will also solve our oil production issue. So we will stop overproducing and this way bring down the CO2 emission of our purchasing. Because every time we order, we're men style. If I produce, if I sell 10,000 pieces, I can produce several times, and then I can do the same order, add maybe a box of women sizes if I need it. I don't need to buy the MOQ anymore, so I can streamline it in a way and make it yeah, make it more better for us, for our supply chain.
Martyna:So you mean you won't have to buy so many of the Wokko in general, you won't have to store so much of the items actually, and they still will be easily accessible. The same lead time for them, the same, all the same process, but it will be available in bigger range of sizes exactly and when this lands, we would be able to solve it for all our assortment.
Lena:So when we come to a company and when present free stuff, we would say this is our workwear range and we always have it for men and women, and it doesn't matter. You buy this pair of trousers and you just find the right size and the size range. So this way they will see it, it will be available and it will be easier for us also to produce it and to replenish it.
Martyna:And it will be the same problem solver for the end user, problem solver for the, for the end user, for the either is that individual customer or is that the big company. They will only buy the same products really every single time. They will the. We are sure about the waiting time. They will know that we'll get it on time in the size which they want, so they won't have to go to the male size or the male version or whatever we call it. So maybe do you think by this solution you can see actually, because then you can track how much of the female products has been bought on that specific size, like in the female size, uh, in, and then we can actually see that change that people, if they have that very simple and easy access to those products, they're actually going to order the correct one.
Lena:I hope they will. I won't be able to see if a woman deliberately chose any way to go for a men's size. I won't be able to see that. But I will be, of course, able to see the statistics specifically to this on a certain item. To see the statistics specifically to this on a certain item, just exactly how many pieces of different sizes we are buying, we are selling and the customers are buying. So, yeah, it would be possible, but it's the tricky part would be to make them understand that it's not a unisex product, because unisex did not really land very well. It's like sitting between the two chairs. We are kind of trying out this jacket is unisex did not really land very well. It's like sitting between the two chairs. We are kind of trying out this jacket is unisex. So if you're a woman, you have to choose one size smaller.
Martyna:Yes, because we know that unisex is based on male body anyway.
Lena:Exactly. And what does it leave us with A jacket which is normally longer in the sleeves, bigger in the shoulder and very tight in the hip, so I almost cannot close it. So, no matter how that you put it, you know unisex is not a good solution and it has not landed very well in the market, so we need to go away from that. To explain freesta's t-shirt now I'm talking about particular, about this new product we're going to launch next year is not unisex. It's more like a gender inclusive-inclusive, gender-neutral you call it what it is.
Martyna:It's just a t-shirt which comes in the sizes for men and for women in one article number and this also will assure that the same employee, like different employees, will have the same uniform every single time and there won't be any differences if it comes to the color uniform every single time and there won't be any differences if it comes to the color.
Martyna:You know, sometimes we'll go to different. Um, we can't access that because, uh, there was no female available at the moment and so we'll go to a different one which is still female, but maybe not the same color, maybe not the same durability or any other feature. So this female is still looking different than anybody else, which we don't want because, again, that's a little bit of stigma behind. Oh, let's put pink jackets on on female, and I even heard about pink shame, shaming, like if male employee will be late or something, do something wrong, they, they make them wear the pink high-vis jacket as a punishment, which is ridiculous, but it is happening or happened before. I think the awareness is more out there and it doesn't happen so often, but we don't want. In conclusion, we don't want those employees stand out in general.
Lena:No, no, I agree, and that is very important, because uniform is key. As I said, the companies would like to show their corporate identity via the workwear. They look professional and they would like everyone to look the same, of course, definitely, so we hope very, very much that this will land and we hope the customers will understand this new system.
Martyna:But mainly, what we hope very much also is that it will bring the awareness to women that it's there yes, definitely it will, and I and I and I was thinking about, uh, this all, uh, before our conversation, because during the years we can see, um, everything's changed and we're going into that innovative thinking, as you do as a Fristas, and with launching that very inclusive product, it again shifts our perspective on female PB or in the PB in general. We're talking not only about the right fit, but also sustainability and durability. And you've got loads of experience as Fristas. There's a hundred years of Fristas, so there's loads of experience as a hundred years of business, so there's loads of experience in this company. So I think that there was a big opportunity in here to actually understand that.
Martyna:Well, we are now past that phase when the PP for women it was like a fashion show almost. We tried to the companies who produce. They try to almost attract them with the different styles. They're more, uh, they are professional but a little bit more relaxed. But because thinking that all female will go with this stylish design, which is not the case, because I heard you before saying that less is more and it really resonates with me.
Lena:Yeah, but but it is less is more, is it? That's how we need to think in the future, how we build our assortments, and therefore we already now need to think twice before we put something into our stock. We do. We did have an idea actually to create, like um, an independent women assortment. You know, a different one, consisted of different product types, which you normally would do, but but different from our assortment. So the women's styles do not look alike with the men's styles. And when we started testing this idea on different customers, it just failed because they didn't want it, because they wanted to look the same, because we come back to corporate identity, come back to your logo placement, so you know recognition, how do you recognize the brand and why I work where, etc. So no, it didn't really work. It has to look the same.
Martyna:It's amazing, but in the same time I'm thinking. I'm trying to put myself in the position of the woman who is working already in very unusual for woman environment, or maybe she unusual in a way of thinking of, obviously, but, um, but she's already standing out because she is female in that field, so putting something absolutely different than everybody else on her. It will be even emphasis on that that, oh, you are different than everybody else. So she just wants to be like everybody else, part of a group, a part of the team, and and she doesn't want to stand out even more than she is because she is already on the focus of attention yeah, exactly because she's long.
Lena:But. But we also had cases when we, when we were making the study with about the women workwear and this collection, that we said that sometimes women that are forced to use men workwear at work they go for, like a baggie, a really big sizes, etc. And then when they come to a party, company party at the end of the year, people don't recognize them because they they they come in there was a girl, no one saw her before, like who are you? And that's how bad it can get you know. So no doubt we would like to solve this, no doubt we want to bring it to the attention that it does exist one more time. This time it's not going to be a pink skirt with the tool pocket. This time it's going to be a product which is a workwear and every person person indifferent of gender, can find a best-fitting product within the range.
Martyna:So that's the talk. I think you're a pioneer in this again and I think it will stand out from the simplicity of that, from the simplicity of idea, and it will work for everyone. So, yeah, why not? Why not try that approach? You tried the very controversial one. We're coming back to basic. Maybe that's the solution, and we can see the same a little bit in the fashion in general. It's changing all the time, but we still see overconsumption. So I think your idea, very simple but innovative, may stop this overconsumption in the worldwear industry in general.
Lena:We hope very much. We hope very much because competition parameter of having workwear for men, for female and male, is there. We need to deliver on that. We just need to work smarter and not harder.
Martyna:Do you have any? So you mentioned before in your previous podcast with Mark that all your products actually are checked and tested on end users, Correct? Do you have any specific end users trying this product already?
Lena:Yes, they are definitely, because it will be launched in spring, summer, 26. There will be more products than just one, but yes, we are testing them. We're testing them on female and male. Right now we are also testing the theory bringing them to the desktop, opening up our webpage. How are you buying your workwear? How are you looking for it? What are you looking for? What filters are you using?
Martyna:All the customers do. Yes, we do.
Lena:It's very necessary because this idea will not be just the t-shirt or just the jacket which we always will test, because workwear has to be tested before it comes to the market. It's the most important tool you have during your working day, right? This theory, or this idea of the gender-inclusive workwear, you know, demands a little bit different testing parallel to the product testing, and it's the purchase behavior, it's how they are reacting on that. You know, different testing parallel to the product testing, and it's the pro, it's the purchase behavior, it's how they are, how they are reacting on that. You know, and and we get different feedbacks and we get different ideas how we can bring it up. But one thing which is common for everyone I have not met a single one who didn't say, wow, this is really cool. It's so simple in a way, but still, this, this, you're on to something very interesting. So I don't meet people who would not support the idea, you know. But but you never know is all the projects which are pilot projects.
Martyna:You might find your barriers and obstacles along the way, which is fine as long as we can find a solution yeah, and that's why you have to work with the end users, because in the end of the day, you might have idea, but it has to work for them yes, we had a lot of good ideas which didn't work along the way.
Lena:I will trust me. I come from development department.
Martyna:That's how our life is, but in the end you always end up in the best product, true, best product for them. And if you have to compromise, you will, because in the end is the day, idea is the best play. And if you can, if you can produce it and sell it, that's even better, that's true, that's true no, but it's very interesting, I think.
Martyna:I think that coming back to simple, normal ppe, when it's still durable, it's still right fit, because that's the main thing we are focusing. It should fit the all the bodies uh, not just male or um, male build of women. And you're right, we won't see actually the difference if women who prefer, like you say, you prefer, for example, the male version of a jumper, uh, um, on the sweatshirt. We won't see the difference in those numbers, but we will, will be, we will make sure that women who actually struggle to find those trousers, struggle to find those fitted t-shirts, actually will have very simple access to it and I think that's the main, main solution and the main goal for that. So, coming back to the challenges uh, you, you testing you on the background of a walkwear. You saw this developing over years and what's the main challenges female work have. So, is that accessibility, is that fit, what is it?
Lena:accessibility, I would say, because there is a lot of women work around the market. I mean, I don't know any of our competitors who don't offer it today, but it's, it's there, but somehow, miraculously, we don't notice. It's a mystery we have not yet solved. It's not there, I mean it's not yet available for them in the same extent, so in the same.
Martyna:There's a availability on the market of ranges, loads of colors and designs, true, but the end users still not getting what they should.
Lena:They're not getting what they should. Yes, and that's like. One of the things which I also think is important in a workwear is the comfort, and I simply don't understand that the woman can feel comfortable in this bulky, huge workwear. You know that's sometimes being served at the working places. Bulk, a huge workwear. You know they're sometimes being served at the working places and still it exists and still they are. They are going for it and and not not choosing the, the workwear for women.
Lena:Another thing is I believe that also stops sometime. The, the, the purchases of buying is not that you don't find women equivalent in all the workwear, because it's still because, because we would produce. You know the moqs are so small. We're also trying all the brands also trying to, you know, not to have everything in both female and male. So it's also this balance that, oh, if I want to go for something safer, just go for male. I know I find it always and I don't need to think does it have the female equivalent? It doesn't, or whatever. So sometimes also, maybe this is what stops them from thinking about it. But if it's available, there is no more issue.
Martyna:I think it may be also a little bit of breakthrough for females in general, because you know, I would say aloud that I'm not comfortable, I need some different uniform. You would say that loud that I'm not comfortable, I need some different uniform. You would say that because you live. But maybe women who are in the industry which is male dominated, they already feel like I'm standing out anyway, but I want to do my job, so it's better for me not to say anything. I should be happy that I got this job. In general, do you think that near problem?
Lena:yeah, and I think it's not only the problem for female, it's also the problem for male, because sometimes you also see that men is not wearing the proper workwear, which which doesn't fit them more. So so it's, it's a, it's a general problem. I think that people don't speak out.
Martyna:Maybe your idea then will solve the problem, not only for for female but also for male part, because you know, we call like we've got um eyewear, uh, or we have gloves we, we don't see that much of. I don't. I didn't see at least loads of female gloves or female, uh, eyewear versions. It's just most of the time it's called smaller. They have smaller versions, and I think that may be a trick in that, because we've got, you know, there are smaller men, there are people who have smaller hands, and so there are shorter men as well. So if they will decide to choose from your new products, actually I'll get that smaller size because that will fit me better.
Martyna:That may be a fix for both genders actually.
Lena:You're saying exactly the same, because I was interviewing two of our distributors in Sweden and you were saying exactly the same what they told me. They said if you introduce it like this and I have one article number and I have the trouser in various sizes, both for female and for male, and the female sizes are always a little bit smaller, the smallest sizes, so maybe I can be more it will be easier for me also to dress smaller men, because they also refer to a lot of people from different ethnical backgrounds which are not the same in building exactly as we are in Europe. So he said that would also solve me another problem. So I can also turn it the other way around, that there will be some smaller men who would like to wear maybe a female T-shirt in size M and it will fit him better than the male T-shirt in size XS. So it's a good balance.
Martyna:But if you call it not unisex but gender neutral, we need to find a better word than unisex but gender neutral or something.
Martyna:Yeah, we need to find a better word than unisex, yes, you have to find something catchy, yeah, but something for everyone. Really, that will take that a little bit of sometimes not pressure, maybe shame from men to ask for those female designs, you know, because it can be. We understand that and we are absolutely open and maybe women have a little bit, a little bit more empathy in us and we won't judge. But men to men in the male dominated environment it may be a little bit, um, difficult to ask for I can actually have the female version.
Lena:You know, it can be challenging for them now he can just buy this article number and it doesn't really matter, it's just the size.
Martyna:I think you revolutionize that field at the moment because probably loads of employees will be actually interested in that and if we have a simple but smaller choice, a little bit simplified for everyone but still loads of ranges to pick from, I think that will work and it will address loads of problems. But also and I want to go in here the gender neutral phrase, and this is the thing we see at the moment. We we don't want to be gender specific anymore and I think it's good because we are becoming inclusive and everybody can actually identify themselves, whatever they do she's saying I don't want to be a part of where.
Martyna:So I wanted to go into the gender neutral field because I think by introducing products like this, I think you can address that problem as well. No problem, but it's a new field really. But it may be problematic for people who identify themselves as a non-binary or whatever gender they feel. I think that also take that pressure from them to ask for something very specific. I know it's always based on design. So we are saying that unisex is based on a male body and we have male and female. We used to have male and female products, which is great, but we again addressing only two groups. Uh, we try maternity, but then different ethnics, which is, I think, still not very popular, but it is existing. But with your products it can be a totally different field.
Lena:Exactly, and that's also part of the idea to make it gender inclusive. So it doesn't really matter what gender you are or non-binary, it doesn't really matter, you just go for a size.
Martyna:And you still feel comfortable and nice and can absolutely thrive in your workplace.
Lena:And you feel protected. Ppe is about protection and one of the parameters of that protection is actually comfort. If you're comfortable in your work, you're attentive to what you're doing. If you work in the hazard places where you can be exposed for an accident, you're more attentive. Nothing is disturbing you during the day. So if I should choose, I should choose actually to add comfort as the certification parameter, so you can certify your walkway to that.
Martyna:Yes, and I think that your walkway should protect you, not add additional harm or any hazard to you. Especially when you've got too long trousers, too heavy boots and so on, that may be a potential hazard again. So, yes, it should be comfortable and protect you as a first place. That's why the less is more.
Lena:Yeah, less is more.
Martyna:Well, thank you very much, Lena, and I think it was super, super important and exciting to meet you today and your voice is super exciting and your voice is super important in that field and I'm absolutely happy that you're trying something different. You're trying a totally different approach Because during our projects at Lyreco, we've noticed there's still loads to do if it comes to awareness. We see products, we see loads of products in general on the market. We offer products to our employees and our customers, but in the end, we still can't see that they reach out to end users. So I think your approach is absolutely innovative and I'm looking forward to see it next year. It was amazing to have that conversation with you and thank you very much for your expertise and input.
Lena:And thank you very much for listening to me and I promise to keep you posted about the progress of my pilot project and to tell you what the result is, and I hope, hope very much, that we will see a new Fristas women range very soon.
Martyna:Brilliant. Thank you very much, you're welcome.
Marc:So I really hope you enjoyed that. Really grateful to both Martina and Lina to take time out from the day. There was a lot going on on the on the future of work event in Brussels. We were all spectacularly busy. We saw so much. There were so many great speakers, so it was really good that Lina took time to chat to Martina and also it was really I'm really grateful to Martina to for traveling over from the UK to do this as well. Definitely going to have some more discussions about that. There's some really great topics that I'm really grateful to Martina for travelling over from the UK to do this as well. Definitely going to have some more discussions about that. There's some really great topics that we've got planned for the podcast in the coming months, so stay tuned for that. But for now, thank you so much for taking time to listen to the Pioneers podcast by Lyrica you.
