SPEAKER_03 0:31

We're going to be talking about rate opportunities available, and it's certainly to help make possible. And I'm talking about non-medical transportation and you may be wondering what that is while we talk to you about it. So it's the sort of thing that provides rides to people who need them to and from things that aid in recovery. We're talking about getting the things like job interviews or just to their job or support groups or being able to access medication assisted treatment. And these rides can be provided through lots of different things, right? Ride sharing apps, apps bus passes, sometimes programs have their own fleet of vehicles and drivers to help make these things happen. And what a difference it can make, because it's one of those things that can often be a barrier to treatment or a barrier to someone's recovery just getting around something that so many people take for granted. But certainly we're trying not to take for granted and make that a viable uh you know avenue for people to get the rides they need. And joining us to talk more about uh programs like these and the importance of them are Bill Doyle, he's the operations manager at St. Lawrence Health. We've also got Matt McAllister and he is a participant. He benefits from one of these programs. He uses the rides to recovery program every day, gets them back and forth to KTAC, a credentialed alcoholism and substance abuse counselor at the youth treatment program in St. Lawrence County. And gentlemen, thanks so much uh for joining us on the podcast today. So uh I'm I'm happy to have you on here because uh as I said, a lot of people take transportation for granted and uh don't realize what a barrier it can be in so many different ways. So um, you know, I just want to mention first, uh, I said that uh OATIS is happy to do what it can to help make this happen. We have uh opioid settlement funds that have been made available uh to OATIS to distribute to providers and uh there is about six million dollars, a little bit more, of those opioid settlement funds that were made available statewide for non-medical transportation, and it is great to see that money get put to use for something like this. Bill, talk to me about the program, uh how it's designed and you know how long it's been around. Talk give me the basics on it.

SPEAKER_02 2:40

Sure, sure. Thank you. Um, so the program we we've we've called we call it Rides to Recovery here in St. Lawrence County. Um for individuals who are in recovery from a substance use disorder and are in need of direct trips to anything non-medical. And when I say non-medical, they we have in the past used it for medical trips when um MAS is not available, if somebody doesn't qualify, if it's uh a last minute thing and we just need to get somebody a certain level of care that they're in need of. Uh, we we we tap into the program then. Um but we started in September of last year, September 2022, and the program we slowly rolled it out, and it's it's been a huge success, right? I mean, it's there's on average uh 29 people per month, like individuals that are using the program to get to and from any of these social determinants. Um, and just to kind of you know put it in in real numbers, from September to August, so just shy of a month, or just shy of a year, I'm sorry, 11 months, there was 3,100 one-way trips. 3,100 trips helping somebody get to a grocery store or work or uh to see their children, right? Or to maybe receive um you know their their medication assisted treatment on the weekend when there was no other option available.

SPEAKER_03 4:04

And this is just through your this is through your program. This is not a statewide total.

SPEAKER_02 4:11

This is little old St. Lawrence County with 107,000 people in it, right? So if that gives you any, you know, and we're a huge county landwise, we're 2,900 square miles, but we have you know about 107,000 people. So there's roughly 30 people per square mile, right? So very spaced out.

SPEAKER_03 4:28

And Bill, so uh that's you mentioned something else important there, too. You know, with different areas of New York, we've certainly got uh different concentrations of population of people. So, you know, a lot of times in an area such as yours, it can be even more difficult for people to get where they need to go because the distance could be greater.

SPEAKER_02 4:45

Very much so. I mean, from there's five population hubs in St. Lawrence County, none of which are over like 12,000 people. Um, and the closest two would be 10 miles apart. But if you want to go from Messina to Governor, you're looking at an hour and a half ride. For somebody who has a car and can drive direct, right? But if you don't have reliable transportation and you're relying on public transit, that could be a four-hour trip. You have to go all the way around the county on a public transit bus.

unknown 5:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 5:12

So very yeah, no, I mean you you I hear what you're saying, and hopefully people are understanding. You know, if somebody doesn't have their own transportation, I mean, it can be really prohibitive getting to work, getting the treatment that they're looking for, just to be able to continue in their recovery, which is why programs like this exist.

SPEAKER_02 5:31

Yeah, I mean, recovery is difficult, right? Especially early recovery. Somebody's changing their entire lifestyle, right? The way that they function on a daily basis, and they're they're really working hard to do that. And when you throw one more variable in there, like not having reliable transportation, I mean, the the problems just stack on top of each other, right? And and especially early on, you know, as as we know, it's tough for somebody to sustain any type of recovery, especially within that first 12 months. Yeah, and you put a small roadblock in front of them and frustration sets in, and then you know, boom, somebody may have a reoccurrence, right? Or or a return to use. And it can be really frustrating.

SPEAKER_03 6:07

Yeah, you know, Bill, and it's like what I was saying before, you know, the barriers to to treatment and recovery that we're trying to eliminate. And again, we we want to make sure people realize transportation can be a major barrier. And as I say that, I want to bring uh Matt into the conversation again. And Matt, you know, I you know, you are a participant, you've benefited from this opportunity to get transportation. Uh, talk to me about uh what the situation was like for you before. You know, let's hear your story a little bit and then the difference that this made.

SPEAKER_01 6:36

I can um I appreciate it, Jerry, and I appreciate it. Bill, um, Bill and I have uh gotten to know each other um a little better through this process because he's been a real integral part of uh bringing all of this opportunity uh to myself and other people. So thank you. And um, you know, I I can piggyback off of what he was saying um from experience. Uh I I got this job uh last year um about 20 months ago um and I was taking public transportation. Um I was spending four hours um on a bus. Uh but actually so every day it was four different drivers um and two different buses that I would take um every day. So I'd get picked up at like 5 a.m. and my and my um my work schedule is seven to three, so I'd get picked up at five and I'd usually get home about five thirty or six. Um and that was you know three to four different uh volunteer drivers and two or three different um you know bus schedules every day. Um so um it was really difficult, you know. Um I uh just switched uh careers. Um I'm I'm not driving legally due to my checkered uh past and I'm and I'm working on that, you know, as we speak. Um but um I actually work as a as a counselor, um, substance abuse counselor for adolescents, and it's 45 miles from my house. Uh, you know, I heard Bill talking about distance between um things and hubs, hub places, and so I'm out in the middle of nowhere really, like eight miles from anything. Um so uh now with rides to recovery, instead of having four drivers and three buses in a day, I have one driver um who picks me up at my house, um, who drives me directly to work, drops me off at the doorstep here here 45 minutes away from home, um, picks me up at three o'clock and I'm home before four. Um, you know, I have three teenagers that live with me. I'm a single parent without a legal driving privilege. Um, you know, and I have all the things that go along with that. And um, you know, uh Bill and I laughed uh when you know the the grant went through and uh and the money came through because like I had a whole graph of my own um like on on the stuff that he looks at. Like I had a whole graph of my own before Rides to Recovery came along. So I'm grateful for it, you know, and and the bit about early recovery and you guys were hitting the nail on the head is like enough stuff is swirling. Um everything is swirling. Uh besides not being able to drive, you know, I might not even be able to afford to eat. I might not be able to um even get thoughts straight in my head. I, you know, like um I'm I'm seven years in recovery now, things are different. Um, but rides to recovery has been really instrumental in allowing me to pursue um opportunity, you know, in in early recovery. And and you know, I'm so grateful for it.

SPEAKER_03 9:47

So so Matt, you said uh you have three uh three kids, correct?

SPEAKER_01 9:53

Yeah, I got uh 15, 14, and 13. I look like this all the time. I've got a face for radio.

SPEAKER_03 10:00

So 15, 14, and 13. So that sounds like you've got a very busy house. And you know, uh we talked about transportation helping you get to your job. Um, but you know, the fact that you're saving, you know, an hour or more in transportation time now, I'm I'm assuming that gives you more critical time in the morning to be there for those kids and more time in the evening to be there for those kids.

SPEAKER_01 10:24

Well, uh my my two youngest uh kids, Angus and Hawk, um, they're eighth and seventh graders at Canton Central School this year. Um they've been homeschooled um recently uh due to COVID and due to some other things. And um, yeah, you know, that point of more time with my kids, more time with my household, more time to be a parent and a and a brother and a son, and like all those things that I am besides in early recovery, you know, and my my kids have benefited from me being around more, especially in the morning and and in the afternoon, around, you know, those those critical times of getting up and getting home, you know, from school. So um, yeah. Uh the other thing is, is um, and this is kind of a cool part of the story, is uh the guy that drives me, and it's you know, it's uh I think it's about a hundred miles each way for him, um, you know, a couple times a day, but he's an older fella. And I think this is true, this is true of a lot of the drivers, is like it's also a bloodline for them, um, you know, being able to be part of, being able to be part of like a system that works and has purpose. And it turns out that this guy that volunteered to drive me every day really in a lot of ways was friendly with my my father who's deceased. And so I've formed a a connection with my driver, you know, that's been really cool and special to me. So it's been a good thing for me and my family all the way around.

SPEAKER_03 11:47

Was it was that when you first discovered that connection to his his dad when he came to pick you up the first time, or not before that?

SPEAKER_01 11:54

He he heard my last name, you know, he had my last name on his trip tick or whatever, and he goes, Uh you you don't know Jim, do you? And I'm like, Yeah, that's my dad. Wow. You know, so it's been real cool like that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 12:08

Wow. So all right, so I mean, so many benefits that came out of this opportunity. And you know, we we we say the initial one is help you get to work, but as as you can see, there there's so many other pieces of it that just help fall into place because of this uh this this ride opportunity. Bill, I wan I want to ask you again now about the program, and you know, we we hear about the driver uh who you know is benefiting from it as well. Or uh if how how do you go about getting these people to drive? I mean, what that I'm assuming that's got to be, you know, uh a difficult thing, probably getting enough people for the demand, because it sounds like enough people want these rides. How are you with with staffing these these vehicles, these rides to provide to people, and and what could people do if they hear this and say, hey, you know what? I'd like to do that.

SPEAKER_02 12:51

Well, that's a great question, Jay. Um, I'm just really fortunate that I don't have to recruit the drivers, right? That's not part of what I do because it's not an easy task, right? I mean, you're with the price of gas and and and you know the wear and tear and the winters that we have here, and it can be really difficult. Um, so what you you you touched on earlier in in the podcast about how these funds and these programs can be used for various forms of transportation, right? So we've taken rides to recovery and we've, you know, bus tickets and uh, you know, trailways or Greyhound bus tickets, uh, public transit bus tickets, tax the fare. But our main source of transportation is through an organization called Volunteer Transportation Center. And they're located in Jefferson, St. Lawrence, Lewis County, Oswego County, they're throughout the state. Um, and they're a non-for-profit organization that does all sorts of transportation and they recruit volunteer drivers. And now when I say volunteer, they're getting paid for their mileage reimbursements, right? So they're not a paid employee, so it's not taxable. It's the IRS 65.5 cents a mile rate or whatever the going rate is, that's what they get reimbursed, and that's supposed to cover their mileage, their wear and tear, their oil changes, everything else, right? Um so that's where the majority of the trips come from, um, is from Volunteer Transportation Center. Um, so not every county is fortunate enough to have that, um, but we are in St. Lawrence County, really fortunate. So the recruiting comes mostly from word of mouth, right? It's average age of the driver are are are in their like mid to late 60s. Most of them are retired. Um, and this is just something to help fill the time, right? It's something for them to do. Yep. And give them purpose, right? Keep them busy, give them purpose, and and like Matt said, create that connection.

SPEAKER_03 14:35

Um, you know, uh, so I'm gonna I'm gonna ask one more question to Matt. So, Matt, you know, we talked about the benefits of this. Could you uh imagine or envision uh how much more difficult things would be if if this wasn't available to you? I know you said before you were writing over two hours, but you know, not just the extra time getting from point A to point B, like what the other uh effects would be, like how sustainable it would be to be having those four hours every day out of your day and and the extra, you know, uh stress, uh concern that that would cause you.

SPEAKER_01 15:07

So check this out, Jerry. I um and I I thought about this when you guys started talking, is like before I found out about public transit at all. We're in rural upstate New York. Uh really there's there's more Amish buggies than there are public transit vehicles, okay? Um, I was trying to figure out if I could take this job at all. Um I'm 32 miles away from my house to here. I don't drive right now. Um I was what I did at first was I was pooling polling all of my uh recovery-based friends, my family, uh other people that I know that drive, and I was trying to figure out a way to do it myself, you know, and I was gonna have to say no. Like, you know, I just I I've been working on this certification for a couple of years, I met the right person, I got this job offer, I was super stoked. And then I started trying to put the nuts and bolts together like by myself, you know, and I have a very solid recovery circle. I have a very supportive family, I have lots of friends, I you know, I I'm resourceful. Um, it would have been I would have had to say no, you know, if it wasn't for rights, you know, I would have had to say no to the job, and you know, who knows? Um the repercussions, you know, like a rock in in a lake, you know, the ripple effect of that is gonna be tremendous.

SPEAKER_03 16:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:29

Um so I mean, you know, it's it's sort of like I, you know, I'm not saying it saved my life, but you know, it it allowed me to have the opportunity to pursue what I was trying to do, you know, um in a in a productive and positive, healthy, manageable way.

SPEAKER_03 16:45

Yeah, and no pun intended, but to really continue that road to recovery.

SPEAKER_01 16:49

Yeah, totally.

SPEAKER_03 16:50

Um, Matt, I I appreciate you sharing your story with us. Bill, as we get ready to wrap up here, I just want to put out there if people uh want to learn more, either uh how to, you know, volunteer potentially or just want to access these these rides, what do they do? What's the website? What's the phone number? What can you tell them?

SPEAKER_02 17:09

So they're gonna call um the Valley Recovery Center, which is in Augustburg, New York. And uh the phone number is 315-541-3057. Um, they can speak with anybody that answers the phone there, um, and they can get them set up. Um there's usually uh five-day, if if you're a first-time rider, what what happens is the mobility uh manager will try and figure out a transportation schedule. And it might not be like what Matt has that direct trip to and from. Matt was kind of like the poster child for this. Um he was the one that he was like our our first our first rider, right? So um because of his his six you know, his circumstances and situation he was in. But call the valley and you know, any one of the staff there is super helpful. And they'll put together a transportation plan, you know, within a week for somebody to help them get, you know, whether it's once a week to see their kids or you know, five days a week to work or whatever, right? Laundromat once a week, right? Those simple things that we take for granted, right? That somebody maybe can't take for granted.

SPEAKER_03 18:05

All right. So that phone number, I just wanted to give it one more time in case somebody heard it, couldn't get it down right fast enough.

SPEAKER_02 18:10

Yep, 315-541-3057.

SPEAKER_03 18:14

All right, terrific. And I know uh I know there are similar programs like this around the state of New York. Hopefully they'll continue to be more and more because obviously, from the numbers you're telling us, the demand is great, and uh it's great that you guys are there to answer that demand. Bill Doyle and Matt McAllister, thank you both for joining us on the podcast today. I really appreciate it.

SPEAKER_02 18:32

Thanks for having us.

SPEAKER_03 18:33

All right, guys. And I'm Jerry Gretzinger for Addiction, the next step from the New York State Office of Addiction Services and Support. Thanks for checking out the office of the podcast.