Isabel Byon: 0:00

The New York State Office of Addiction Services and Supports, or OASAS, provides this podcast as a public service. Thoughts and opinions expressed do not necessarily represent or reflect those of the agency or state. This is Addiction: The Next Step.

Jerry Gretzinger: 0:23

Hey, there, everybody. This is Jerry Gretzinger, your host for Addiction: The Next Step, the podcast that's brought to you by OASAS, the Office of Addiction Services and Supports for the great state of New York.

Jerry Gretzinger: 0:35

So today, today's episode, you know we really love to be able to talk about so many different topics and certainly different things that can impact those that we serve. You know, folks who are seeking the services of OASAS, and one of those things that is so important is housing. People need to have affordable and reliable housing, especially those who are in treatment and then getting into recovery, so that they can be on their own feet and kind of put their lives together in that way. And housing is so important and often can be a barrier to someone's success. But we do have people who are helping to bring those barriers down and one of those groups is Concern Housing and in the New York City area their associate executive director is James Mutton, and James joins us now. Thanks so much for sitting down with us today.

Jim Mutton: 1:21

Good to be here.

Jerry Gretzinger: 1:21

So, James, first let me ask you this Jim, James, you have a preference.

Jim Mutton: 1:25

Jim is great.

Jerry Gretzinger: 1:26

Jim. All right, Jim, that works. So let me get into this first. You know we talk about housing and how important that is. If you don't mind, let's start with the background for Concern Housing, kind of where this started, when what prompted it to be what it is.

Jim Mutton: 1:41

So Concern Housing has actually been around for 52 years. We started as a very grassroots agency out in Suffolk County there was an old state psychiatric center out there in Central Islip that had closed down and a bunch of former patients and family members basically got together and asked themselves what do we need? And the big issue was obviously housing and we formed a nonprofit agency. Back then it was very small scale you know we were renting one and two family homes, suburban homes and it's gone on to be a pretty huge non-profit agency that still to this day focuses on providing supportive housing, permanent supportive housing to folks, as well as affordable housing opportunities to individuals and families. So we are now all over Brooklyn and the Bronx in New York City and also NASA and Suffolk, and I would say we serve over over 1800 folks in a variety of settings, you know, from those small one and two family homes to much larger buildings with hundreds of units.

Jerry Gretzinger: 3:08

Yeah, yeah, I know I was looking at your website and seeing some of that information and it's concernhousing. org, right. If anybody wants to do the same thing. I did take a look and what a great story. 52 years ago started renting a couple of apartments to help people out and it has really grown so significantly. I know, um, one of the things I looked at was on Coney Island. Uh, and it's, it's a whole structure and it's got multiple units and it's just just one of so many

Jim Mutton: 3:39

Yeah, Coney Island was a for special project to us back in 2019. It was our first single site project with two different state agencies. So we work with OASAS and the Office of Mental Health basically to create permanent housing. We have 135 apartments there and 82 of which are serving formerly homeless veterans recovering from mental health and substance use challenges. So folks have their own studio apartment in a building with a kitchen and a bathroom. We've got staff seven days a week, 24 hours a day, there to provide support. So it's really filled a niche for many homeless veterans who were unnecessarily in the shelter system or on the streets. And alongside those we've got 53 one, two and three bedroom apartments. So there are a variety of household sizes, families and kids living in that building and it's transformed Coney Island.

Jim Mutton: 4:50

I mean when we were initially there, there was not a lot of development going on. There was a lot of vacant lots, empty lands. People were skeptical about a supportive housing program in their neighborhood and we've really changed the viewpoint. When we had our grand opening back in 2019, we had a city councilman at the time came over and he admitted he was a skeptic. He wasn't sure he was supportive of a project like this, and once he saw what we were doing, the beautiful place to live that we're able to provide and the voices of the folks living there, he came out and said you know, this is the model of supportive housing for New York State. I want every project to look like this and to operate like this, so it was a magical moment.

Jerry Gretzinger: 5:43

And you know what what you're saying. There is just such a tremendous part of this whole story because a lot of what we want to be able to do is to be able to show people the good things that are happening, the good things we want to continue to do and and by doing that, address the skeptics who are like well, you know, we see a lot of NIMBYism, right? Well, not in my backyard, it's not going to work here, it has to be somewhere else. But you're right, as soon as people see, because you know we could talk to them, but sometimes they need to see it with their own eyes and experience it to really understand it. So it's terrific that by doing that, you know, you were able to show people what you had in mind and that they were converted to going. Yeah, you know what I can get behind this. That's great.

Jim Mutton: 6:23

That's it, and you know we invite anyone to come to our sites and see the space, meet the tenants, really to hear firsthand from the people living in these buildings. We recently opened a bagel shop in a commercial space in the same building, so we're now running a bagel business as well as providing housing, and you know a number of veterans are working there in the shop. It's open seven days a week Cyclone Bagels. So if you're in Coney Island, stop by on 21st and Surf and grab a bagel and let us know what you think.

Jerry Gretzinger: 6:59

And aptly named Cyclone Bagels for Coney Island, that's perfect.

Jerry Gretzinger: 7:03

So what I want to do do too is now I want to get into sort of how the connection with OASAS came about, because, you know, I've always been working towards the housing end of things. But then my understanding is that staff were encountering some situations where substance use disorder was involved and it made them realize, you know, we need to expand what we're providing here to address this as well. Let me have you take that part of the story.

Jim Mutton: 7:28

Yes, so for years we've been working with folks with mental health diagnoses, trying to get people into recovery, back to work, you know, really reconnecting to the communities, and we found that we were also serving folks with substance use challenges. You know that there were comorbid issues going on and we really couldn't do our job just focusing on mental health. We had to recognize that, you know, recovery was holistic, that people were at different stages of change in their addiction and we needed to gear up and provide those supports. We saw a lot of challenges with the opioid epidemic, which really came fully into flow with the COVID shutdown and the pandemic you know we were finding that there were a lot of folks who were using substances and you know, in our case it's in their own homes. For the most part they're in their apartments, they're with the door shut, they may be alone and sadly we were losing people to that epidemic. And I have to say, you know, when we provide 24-hour staffing in a building usually it's that direct care counselor, case manager that has the unfortunate discovery of finding somebody deceased and the trauma that comes with that. Right when we're talking about working with folks developing therapeutic relationships, for some cases in years, to find somebody dead in their apartment of an overdose there's nothing worse and we're taking that vicarious trauma home with us as a result.

Jim Mutton: 9:26

So we realized, you know, we had to get into a process of harm reduction. We had to focus on overdose prevention. We had to have tenants talking to tenants about that process. We could not do it alone as just staff to tenants. We had to involve the folks who have lived experience there.

Jim Mutton: 9:50

So we've really done a lot of work as an agency focusing on what's needed, and that obviously includes Narcan. It includes fentanyl test strips, people thinking about what they're doing before they do it not using a lone. But we've also spent a lot of time working on a curriculum which is tenant based. So we were involved in some studies right now which is focused on tenants, peers talking to other peers about substance use and how they can be involved in, perhaps, overdose prevention. So you know everything from having a buddy system, a safety network, not using a lone, really checking up on people all the time, you know, and that's made a difference. I have to say. You know, we've gone from losing, you know, multiple people in a year to virtually no one now and we're building a system that is there for people that you know, shows that there's caring, that there's connection, at any time of the day, any day of the week.

Jerry Gretzinger: 11:04

And you know I can tell you the things that you're saying here is really it's music to the ears of a lot of people in our building here at OASAS, because you talk about harm reduction. You talk about, you know, peer-to-peer connections, people with lived experience being involved. All of it's so important. And certainly you touched on harm reduction, something that we are so promoting right now because of the difference it can make. So let's kind of put through a scenario. If people want to know well, how does the process work? How does somebody first make contact with Concern? How do they make that I don't know that first communication to say I could really benefit from the services you provide, and then take it a step further. If it is someone with substance use disorder, how does that process continue to evolve so that they're receiving all these things that we've just been talking about?

Jim Mutton: 11:57

Yeah, so we may get a referral from a shelter or a street outreach team working with a homeless person with substance use challenges. We will connect those folks with our team on site, you know, and we'll take a referral, typically through the city's Human Resources Administration. They have a single point of access now for referrals. But we're also meeting people in the community. You know we'll meet neighbors, we'll meet community members at community board meetings and they'll say you know, I've got somebody sleeping on my doorstep. You know what can you do? Or I know a veteran who has been, you know, just on the beach on the boardwalk for a period of time. So we'll get out there and we'll engage folks ourselves. We'll do our own outreach if necessary, connect people to the right resources. The minute that we can get someone to set a foot in the door and possibly be on the journey to permanent supportive housing.

Jim Mutton: 13:06

We've made that breakthrough and you know it starts at intake, it starts with that outreach and that relationship building. But the point that we're giving people a key and a lease to their own apartment, to me that is the most humbling part of our work. You know. I like to say it's the day I see grown men cry when I give them the keys to their apartment. And you know we have a team that is there for them 24 hours a day, seven days a week, so that that discussion is happening when they're ready, whenever they want to have that conversation. And you know it could be something as simple as a safety plan. You know I'm worried about relapse. What do I do if I get those urges to use? Who do I call, who do I talk to? Or if I am using, how I can do that safely and avoid a tragedy? You know, reduce harm yeah.

Jim Mutton: 14:09

Yeah, and going back to what we talked about with peers in the building, you know it's typically getting people connected to other tenants who've had that lived experience, who can help orientate people to the community, that can show them the ropes, that can, you know, be available to people at all hours of the day. You know that job is 90% listening right. It's giving somebody a warm and empathetic ear to allow them to feel heard, perhaps for the first time in many years. That's the breakthrough, I think.

Jerry Gretzinger: 14:50

And you know you talk about seeing a grown person cry when you hand over the keys. I think you know we all obviously know how important housing is and we hear so much more of it now and you know OASAS is doing as much as it can to kind of provide, you know, recovery housing and housing for people to be able to kind of get back on their feet. But I think, like you said, when somebody has that roof over their head and they have a place to call home, you give them the keys but it gives them hope and I think that's something that just makes them realize okay, I can do this, I've got the tools and the support system that you obviously are building around them to make them successful.

Jim Mutton: 15:27

That's right and you know, I think that the housing sector has done a lot of work to bridge those gaps with the treatment community. Right, these are novel programs. I mean, the Surf Hats Place Veterans Program was the first of its kind in New York City to be a ground-up project. You know where it's a typical apartment building, right, where we've got supportive housing, affordable housing, families and kids, working folks all living under one roof. It's like well, how can we bring the treatment supports to that community? So we spent a lot of time, you know, reaching out to those clinics, those Article 31 clinics, those harm reduction programs in the community, to say, hey, you know, we've got an opportunity here to partner with you and bring your services to us as well as, obviously, provide housing to anyone that you feel may be in need.

Jerry Gretzinger: 16:28

Well, Jim, I mean, I think what you're doing is tremendous, and I just want to say you talked about the lawmaker who was at that ribbon cutting and said this is the model. I'm totally behind this now and I hope others will hear this, will hear about how this works and that it will be a model for other programs People can follow. Provide this throughout the state of New York, because certainly housing is a need everywhere and you know people with substance use disorder or any other needs, whether they be mental health or substance use. Housing is so critical. So we completely applaud what you're doing, what you've been doing, and thank you so much for sitting down with us today to give us some background on it. And now I hope that you'll also let people know where can they find it? We talked about the web address. Is that the perfect place to start?

Jim Mutton: 17:12

Absolutely. A great place to go concernhousing. org and you can see all of our programs there, learn all about our services. You can apply for housing there. You can apply for employment. It's a one-stop shop. So concernhousing. org is our website and feel free to to connect with me there. You know all of our contact information is available at that site.

Jerry Gretzinger: 17:41

Great. Jim. Thanks so much for sitting down with us today.

Jim Mutton: 17:44

My pleasure, Jerry,

Jerry Gretzinger: 17:45

And, listen, if you're looking for other services or supports that you think could be helpful to you, that OASAS could help connect you with you know how to find us. It's our website, oasas. ny. gov, o-a-s-a-s, dot N-Y, dot G-O-V. And, of course, don't forget our Hope Line, 877-8-HOPE-N-Y. There's people there to talk with you, regardless of the need, about addiction, whether its substance use or problem gambling 24/7. Give them a call, get online. We're here to help. And we're here Every Step of The Way at OASAS the Office of Addiction Services and Supports. I'm your host Jerry Gretzinger. Thanks for joining us and until next time, be well.