Isabel Byon: 0:00

The New York State Office of Addiction Services and Supports, or OASAS, provides this podcast as a public service.

Isabel Byon: 0:07

Thoughts and opinions expressed do not necessarily represent or reflect those of the agency or state. This is Addiction: The Next Step.

Jerry Gretzinger: 0:22

Hello there everybody. Jerry Gretzinger here, your host of Addiction: The Next Step, you know it's brought to you by the New York State Office of Addiction Services and Supports, and, yeah, so we have two guests joining us today in our studio and special guests, special guests. We've heard from one of them before. The other one is a new guest that's joining us and we're talking about something that's pretty exciting. It's a partnership that OASAS has with Stanford University and the REACH Lab there and the great work that's happening between these two organizations. So let me tell you who we've got here. Our returning guest is Pat Zuber-Wilson, who's here with us today. She leads up our prevention efforts here at the agency for the last many, many years, does a lot of good work with that, and her partner over at Stanford, working on the initiatives we'll be talking about, is Dr Bonnie Halpern-Felsher, and you are the professor of pediatrics at the university and also the director of the REACH Lab. Welcome.

Bonnie Halpern-Felsher: 1:16

Thank you so much. Thank you for having us Now.

Jerry Gretzinger: 1:17

Pat, you've been here before, so you're going to wait a moment. We're going to start with Dr Bonnie. I can call you Dr Bonnie, right?

Bonnie Halpern-Felsher: 1:22

Please.

Jerry Gretzinger: 1:23

All right.

Jerry Gretzinger: 1:23

So we talked about the REACH Lab, right? So before we get into what the REACH Lab is doing with OASAS, tell us what is the REACH Lab?

Bonnie Halpern-Felsher: 1:33

Absolutely so, the REACH Lab. It's a lab. I just didn't want to be the helper in a fulsher lab. That was boring. And REACH stands for Research and Education to Empower Adolescents and Young Adults to Choose Health, and that's what we're all about. We do research on adolescent substance use and other potentially risky behaviors and then we translate the research that we and others do into policy and then into prevention and intervention programs.

Jerry Gretzinger: 1:55

All right. So that sounds like some pretty lofty goals here, right, because anything, I think when you're working with young people it can be lofty because you have to figure out what's the best route to try to assist them as they go through those years. But so when we talk about the partnership with OASAS, right, you know we obviously are very concerned with substance use and the prevention of that in the young ages is key. What's the sort of work that's been happening within the REACH lab that is, you know, critical and useful to an agency like ours?

Bonnie Halpern-Felsher: 2:23

Absolutely Well, one of the things I mean a lot of labs are doing research on why teens are using what our teens are using in terms of substances. What we really do is the very practical side of this. So not only what are they using, why, how come, what are the different products, but how do we reach teens, how do we help adolescents make healthier decisions? My research started I'm a developmental psychologist my research started in adolescent decision making. So how do they make decisions around drug use and how do we help prevent it? And then, with the translation to the prevention programs, it's very practical.

Bonnie Halpern-Felsher: 2:57

And then we talk a lot about harm reduction. So saying to teens just say no, n-o, really doesn't work. We know that from years and years of experience. So we really work on how do we help them say K-N-O-W, how do we help them understand, change their attitudes, ideally prevent all use. But then, if they are using, how do we help them cut back, quit or, if they still continue to use, at least keep them safe and alive is really what we work on. And then the novelty is we do have these school-based and community-based programs that we bring to communities.

Jerry Gretzinger: 3:31

Yeah, I think that's so great too that you know, obviously. You know the first thing we want to be able to do is to help prevent substance use, but certainly to kind of, you know, complete that circle, that if people have already started, what can we do to help them? Maybe cut back or stop?

Bonnie Halpern-Felsher: 3:50

Absolutely. And if their friends are using, how do we help a peer, help their friend? Or, in the case of, say, fentanyl, carry Narcan, or make sure that they know how to test their product and be safe around it. So it's really is building up community capacity, whether it's with young people, their parents, their teachers, their community supports to keep them safe.

Jerry Gretzinger: 4:04

Now I mean again, as I said before, pretty lofty goals here, and this is not something that you started last week and said, hey, we came up with a couple of good ideas. How long have you been working on this?

Bonnie Halpern-Felsher: 4:14

Well, I've been doing research on adolescent substance use, starting with tobacco gosh, probably in 2000, maybe even before that, and then our curriculums. We actually started building curriculums in 2009. And, yes, it took many years to bring our first curriculum to the communities and now we build community. Excuse me, we build curriculums all the time, but it does take a lot of time. And we build our curriculums with our community. And when I say community, I mean young people, I don't mean just my Stanford community across the country, but we work with young people. We work with parents and educators and healthcare providers to make sure that what we build is accurate, relevant and would have the reach of the REACH Lab to be able to really bring it. And if you build something that a teacher doesn't want to use or a young person doesn't like, they're not going to use it. So it takes longer, but we feel like we're doing the steps to make it right.

Jerry Gretzinger: 5:08

All right, so I'm going to back up a little bit here. You talked about the curriculums that are developed and how teachers can put them into place. So really, that's what a lot of that research goes towards, right how can we take what we've learned and then give it to people in a useful format so teachers can use it in a classroom, can communicate with students and start making inroads with them that way? That's kind of where this all heads towards.

Bonnie Halpern-Felsher: 5:30

Absolutely. Very important.

Jerry Gretzinger: 5:32

And so now I'm going to let Pat talk a little bit. So, Pat, when these curriculums are developed right and you work with Bonnie on these things and the rest of the team, those curriculums I'm assuming they come to an agency like ours to help push them out, to kind of get them in use. Yes?

Pat Zuber-Wilson: 5:49

Absolutely.

Pat Zuber-Wilson: 5:50

We've been working with the folks at the REACH Lab, Dr Bonney, for since 2024, I think we started with some.

Pat Zuber-Wilson: 5:59

They were gracious enough to work with us in terms of doing some webinars with our provider field, working with our school districts.

Pat Zuber-Wilson: 6:07

We've developed a partnership with State Ed, also a partnership with the New York State PTA, so we are getting the information out.

Pat Zuber-Wilson: 6:19

The wonderful thing that we truly appreciate about the REACH Lab and their curriculum are they're free to use and so that has really been a benefit to our not only our provider system, but also school districts have sent individuals to come to the trainings that the REACH Lab has done in New York State.

Pat Zuber-Wilson: 6:40

They've done in-person training, They've done virtual training for us and, a matter of fact, last night Dr Bonnie did a webinar for parents through and in partnership with the New York State PTA. So we're really getting the word out and getting information out that is factual and comes through an approach that reaches young people where they are, and I think that's the thing that we've heard already for those providers, those school districts that are already using the curriculum, that it's something that a teacher or one of our prevention providers can really make adjustments so the curriculum looks like the kids that are in the classroom, that it looks like the communities where they are from. So if you do it in New York City, if you do the curriculum in New York City, you don't want the farms and the fields, you want the community that looks like New York City. So it's been a great partnership and a great opportunity for not only our agency but the people that we serve.

Jerry Gretzinger: 7:44

That's terrific. Now we're talking talking about curriculums too, and you know, as Pat was just saying, they're kind of tailored for where they're going to be put to use, and I'm assuming too, there's not just one curriculum that says, oh, now we'll make it for the city, now we'll make it for the country. Is it broken up by age group and region? And how do you determine the different curriculums you're using?

Bonnie Halpern-Felsher: 8:04

Absolutely. It's a great question and honestly the need is so big we'd be nonstop with it. So first, the big picture of the curriculums. We have one called Smart Talk and that is specifically on cannabis prevention, and that one, as well as our you and Me Together Vape Free, which is our vaping prevention curriculum. Both of those are two lessons for elementary, so yes, there's an elementary version. And then we have a middle and high school version and those are five or six lessons. So the big difference there would be that we're not necessarily making every possible region that would be very difficult but we really try to have it broad enough that it works, but also some specific images and we tell educators that they are welcome to. We use canvas slides, they're welcome to then download and alter the pictures, or we will work with them and like we're working with New York State or, excuse me, New York City, to make sure that that curriculum is most relevant to New York City. So it is. The science certainly doesn't change, the decision making doesn't change, but, like Pat was saying, the images might change, the length of the curriculum changes, the classroom lengths might be a little shorter, a little bit longer. So that's a lot of what we're doing. Sometimes the activities will change, so we're working on that. So that's our smart talk and our you and me.

Bonnie Halpern-Felsher: 9:18

We also have Safety First. Safety First is our comprehensive drug education curriculum. That is actually 13 lessons, but we certainly don't expect every school to use all 13. That covers brain development and brains on drugs. It covers heart and lungs and the rest of the body. It covers stress and coping. We know young people are using because they're so stressed. So some of the things we talk about is deep breathing and how to deal with it. And then we talk about how to not use or reduce your risk if you are using of every drug category that's out there hallucinogens, alcohol, cannabis, tobacco, fentanyl you name it.

Bonnie Halpern-Felsher: 9:58

So that's important. And then we have our cessation program. So our Healthy Futures it's an alternative to suspension program really important to us to and we were actually talking about this at the state meeting the other day, the conference not only meeting young people where they're at, but recognizing that if you are using and I suspend you, you're just going to go home and continue using and I'm not getting at the root of the problem, the root of the problem being the root of the problem being stress, being family dynamics, being whatever might be going on. So really working with the young person, meeting them where they're at and helping them quit, helping them deal with the underlying problems, and that's what our Healthy Futures curriculum does. And then we have specific for LGBTQ, talking about the environment that's particularly important for rural communities, and so on, talking about the environment that's particularly important for rural communities, and so on. So we really try hard to listen to our partners, our communities and tailor our curriculums as best we can.

Jerry Gretzinger: 10:51

Yeah, and I think what you were just describing kind of is so important, because you don't always want to try to take everybody and fit them into one mold.

Jerry Gretzinger: 10:59

It's like sometimes that square peg is not going to fit in that round hole, right, but it seems like you've been able to take the time and the research to figure out who are the different groups out there that can benefit from this and then tailor these curriculums to those groups. And so, along those lines too, you know, I think about some of the folks who may be, you know the ones who are delivering this information and we talked about, you know, teachers and schools and such. You talked about doing the trainings, the webinars and such, because I have to think too, you know, for teachers. You go to them and say, all right, so whatever you've been doing, there may be a better way, we may have a new way of doing this could be more impactful, and some of them may look at that like, oh gosh, I've already got so much, I've got going on already. How am I going to pull this off? I'm assuming the trainings help them figure out. Here's exactly how you can pull it off and not make it such a heavy lift for them.

Bonnie Halpern-Felsher: 11:47

Yeah, that's exactly right and that's one of the other things that's such a wonderful partnership is we can work together with the teachers. But that's absolutely right, and some of the teachers we're training are not necessarily classroom educators. They might be after school program specialists or counselors or Saturday school people a number of different groups. But we do, we really try to make it plug and play. We try to make it easy. We tell them you know, if you really want to make it as evidence-based as possible, you would use the whole curriculum, but it's also designed to be able to be using the way that you want it that best fits your students and your group.

Bonnie Halpern-Felsher: 12:21

So that is important and we really try to empower the educators to know how to use the curriculums. And we even have down to the script. So we always tell teachers if you know a lot about cannabis, for example, or fentanyl or whatever it is, and you just want to use the images on the slide, you're welcome, but we have the script for you, because a lot of educators don't know a lot about these products. And then the other thing that we are working on as a partnership is not just training the adults how to use the curriculums, but training them to understand what are the drugs that young people are using. That was the talk I gave to the PTA last night, but educators as well. What is cannabis? Why are we concerned about it? What are the health effects? So if they get asked the questions from the students, they know how to answer it. So empowering them at every different level is important.

Jerry Gretzinger: 13:10

Well, Pat, let me ask you now too, because, as a contact who would be hearing from a lot of the folks with the PTA or the schools in New York, I mean, what's the sort of feedback that you're getting as to, you know the folks who put some of this into place.

Pat Zuber-Wilson: 13:21

Oh, it's been absolutely amazing. One of the first school districts that actually implemented the cannabis toolkit was New York City Department of Education, and when I speak to the leadership in their prevention world, they cannot say enough about how not only have the teachers and their prevention counselors in the schools really have embraced the curriculum, but the students really enjoy the curriculum because it is available and it's reachable for them. It's something that they can understand, they can relate to. I think that has a lot to do with the fact that the REACH Lab has a youth advisory group and that youth advisory group has really led some of that discussion on what does the curriculum look like, and there are things, t hat being, I won't call us old, but we are older adults.

Jerry Gretzinger: 14:23

We're not on the youth committee.

Pat Zuber-Wilson: 14:25

But there are things you know I use Facebook, right, I use Instagram, but they have other areas where other social media platforms that they use, and really to be able to talk about how these platforms will do things like really target advertising towards them, target information towards them, be in the same place where the kids are talk about the environment.

Pat Zuber-Wilson: 14:52

Kids are concerned about the environment. So when you get to that section of the curriculum where they talk about, what does cannabis products do to the environment? What do the vaping devices do to the environment because they aren't biodegradable? How do the droplets go throughout your ventilation system in your home and affect your pets and maybe younger siblings? Those are things that connect with young people and I think that has been what I've heard from our providers, what I've heard from school districts that are using the curriculum, what I've heard from school districts that are using the curriculum that the curriculum not only connects with the teachers and the faculty in a school and our prevention professionals, but it really reaches the kids.

Jerry Gretzinger: 15:39

Well, you know, as you were explaining that, I was like well, that's a terrific idea and it makes so much sense, right, Having a youth committee that's involved helping to develop this curriculum. So it's not all of us old people.

Jerry Gretzinger: 15:50

I'll speak for myself, trying to say here here's how to do it and here's what's going to connect with kids. You've got kids themselves involved. So I think there's so many different aspects of this that are making it successful. And before we get to letting people know what they can do if they want to learn how to participate in this, I want to ask you, dr Bonnie, a quick question, because if I was a parent, I am a parent, but if I was out there listening and I heard all this about like oh, we have ideas on how you can talk to kids and make a difference, I'd be wondering what could I do right now, like what's the one tip, what's one thing you could say to a parent or to an educator about how you can make a difference? Is there one hard and fast thing that you find in every single curriculum that is always like well, we need to include this.

Bonnie Halpern-Felsher: 16:31

One of the things that I think excuse me is go on our website, StanfordReachLab. com, because you'll find everything there. We have information for parents, for other adults, for youth. That's the first thing, but I would say it sounds so simple, but talk, Talk to your students, Talk to your kids. What I always say is say I just listened to this podcast, this is what I learned. Hey, Johnny Sally, you want to go learn together, so make it something that you do together. It's not a lecture, it's not let's sit down right now and let me lecture you. That doesn't work. Learn together.

Bonnie Halpern-Felsher: 17:09

Find out. You know they are younger. What's the platform? What's better?

Jerry Gretzinger: 17:11

Saying they're younger instead of we're older?

Bonnie Halpern-Felsher: 17:12

There you go, yes, yes, they're younger than we are, okay, so you know, and don't say, hey, does your friend use, because they're not going to out their friends. But is this something that you have seen? Are you concerned about it? I'm concerned. Can you help me learn as an adult? Let the, let the student, the kids, teach you and go on the websites together and have that conversation and have the conversation about you know, young people care about their brains, they care about their bodies, but they care about being manipulated. So if you can say, you know, what I've learned is these commercials, these ads, are not targeting me as a parent. They're really targeting you. What do you think about that? Get young people mad. And that's the best way to get them involved, to not use and to help start clubs or start campaigns and things like that. So empowering the young people, empowering the parents and empowering them to work together would be really important.

Jerry Gretzinger: 18:04

Great, great and I just love that simple as talk, talk and listen, right.

Bonnie Halpern-Felsher: 18:08

Talk and listen.

Jerry Gretzinger: 18:09

That's where it all begins, and we've said that for years, right, Pat?

Pat Zuber-Wilson: 18:12

And those conversations, as Dr Bonnie said, don't have one big conversation. You know, you're driving along and you see things, or you hear things, or picking up the kids from soccer practice or cheer practice, you say, hey, what's happening here, and that really starts the conversation, and so I can't agree more having two adults now.

Jerry Gretzinger: 18:40

I'm just approaching that quickly myself.

Bonnie Halpern-Felsher: 18:43

I used to have a colleague who was also a developmental psychologist and she said, yeah, I scheduled a meeting with my kids to talk to them about. And I said, whoa, whoa whoa, whoa. You're scheduling a meeting. My own kids they're now 25 and 29, but they would say that I was the master at just coming up organically with information, and that's what you really have to do, so capitalize on that. The car rides, the sports.

Jerry Gretzinger: 19:05

Take those opportunities.

Bonnie Halpern-Felsher: 19:06

Take those opportunities.

Bonnie Halpern-Felsher: 19:07

And again, not lecture but have a conversation.

Jerry Gretzinger: 19:11

So, bonnie I know you sort of mentioned the website already and Pat, for both of you. If people are hearing this and say, all right, I need to learn more about how they put this in use where I am. What's the first step?

Pat Zuber-Wilson: 19:21

I think the first step is actually also going to our website, oasas. ny. gov. We have a full set of resources around cannabis. We have a cannabis toolkit for parents and mentors that was developed. So that's a starting point. In addition, you know connecting with the REACH Lab and, as I said, their materials are free and it's really wonderful. When I first learned about the REACH Lab and the work that Dr Bonnie's team does, I went online and I just played with the curriculum and got information and I said I never thought about that. Okay, this is great information to share and give and put out there in the community. So we have the information on our website. You can visit the REACH Lab website and then we'll get that information. We're here to be there to support parents, families and, most importantly, our students.

Jerry Gretzinger: 20:19

That's what we're about.

Bonnie Halpern-Felsher: 20:20

And one more thing, if I could add we don't just have the curriculums, we also have infographics and flyers. So if you're a parent or a teacher or a health educator, a clinician, and you want to have posters, like around us here, that you want to print, in addition to OASAS having them, we have some as well, and so people can take those and print them.

Jerry Gretzinger: 20:40

And that's all right online. It's all online it's freely available.

Bonnie Halpern-Felsher: 20:43

So we have stickers that you can contact us for and things like that. So we just want to be able to help people. That's what we care about is helping.

Jerry Gretzinger: 20:51

Well, I'm sure this is definitely going to help some people. I'm glad we got to share the information. Thank you both for taking the time to sit down with us today.

Pat Zuber-Wilson: 20:57

Thank you.

Jerry Gretzinger: 20:58

And I'm sure this is still just the beginning. We'll continue to hear more good work from OASAS and the REACH Lab.

Jerry Gretzinger: 21:04

Hey, I'm Jerry Gretzinger for Addiction: The Next Step, just want to remind you we sort of put it out there a little bit but our website oasas. ny. gov, that's O-A-S-A-S, dot, n-y, dot, g-o-v, and if you are looking to talk to somebody about substance use or other addiction concerns, 877-8-HOPE-NY. That's our hope line. Until we see you next time. Be well.