Isabel Byon: 0:00

The New York State Office of Addiction Services and Supports, or OASAS, provides this podcast as a public service. Opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the agency or state. This is Addiction: The Next Step.

Jerry Gretzinger: 0:16

Hello, once again, I'm Jerry Gretzinger, your host for Addiction: The Next Step, brought to you by the New York State Offices of Addiction Services and Supports, and you know so.

Jerry Gretzinger: 0:26

We talk about the four pillars, right, that OASAS has, and it's prevention, treatment, harm reduction and recovery. And prevention, you know, is the first thing there, because it's the first thing we can really do when we talk about giving people the tools to be able to address addiction before there is an addiction, right. So today we're talking about really a cutting-edge program that is happening here in New York State. We've got a school district that's participating and it really is a new way of doing things and we love that sort of thing. Talk us through it and explain what it's all about is Jennifer Quinn. She's the prevention coordinator at Hope for Youth and SIPEP, which is the Complete Youth Prevention Education Program liaison, and she joins us from the Wyandanch School District. Jennifer, thanks so much for joining us.

Jennifer Quinn: 1:09

Thank you so much for having me.

Jerry Gretzinger: 1:11

So I do. I want to get into this. We talk about prevention and how important that is, and this is a whole new way of thinking about prevention, and this really looks to get to young people very, very early on, and sometimes we don't even talk about substances or addiction because it's teaching them how to make good decisions. Am I right?

Jennifer Quinn: 1:33

Correct, yep.

Jerry Gretzinger: 1:34

All right, so tell us more about you know. Tell us first, kind of what the impetus for this was, what made us think that this is what we needed to do, so that they get to a point later in life and can say, hey, you know what, I've got the skills to make the right call here.

Jennifer Quinn: 1:48

Perfect, yeah. So when we first spoke about primary prevention and we look back on it, it typically was only for middle school and mainly high school looking at that substance use. So when we started to kind of look further we said why can't we start at an early age, as early as pre-K? So we go into the schools pre-K to senior year and our first couple of years pre-K to elementary is really social, emotional learning and teaching them how to set goals, how to make friends, how to deal with conflict, so that when they get into that middle school and high school then we start to include that substance use prevention aspect so we can look at that and we can protect them from those risk factors as well.

Jerry Gretzinger: 2:30

So I mean again. So you know, we think a lot of times when we talk as an agency about, you know, prevention of substance use and addiction. Certainly I think a lot of people would assume well, how do you do that? Do you need to have some mention of these substances and how they can be misused? So talk about the social-emotional learning aspect of it, what you do in the classroom to give kids these skills that you know you'll then be able to build on in those later years.

Jennifer Quinn: 2:59

Yeah, absolutely so. My job actually is to coach the teachers. So we go into the school and there are six different programs part of the FIPAP program, right, and for four of them I'm the coach. So we go in, we teach the teachers how to do the actual curriculum. It's turnkey, right, and we teach them so it's for longevity. So when, if one day, I leave or you know the, they want to continue it without me, they're able to do that and teach each other.

Jennifer Quinn: 3:29

So the reason we're doing it in the classroom and having the teachers do it is so that when we're talking about social emotional learning, we're talking about building those friendships.

Jennifer Quinn: 3:40

You know how to just do classroom management and make healthy decisions for the kids. They can use real life situations to say they're talking about, you know, doing something that happened in math and there was a discussion or an argument about what the correct answer was. They can bring that social emotional learning piece, that something they took from a second step right or something they took for an incredible years's lesson, and actually talk about that math lesson and what the conflict was there and how can we resolve it. So we want to start at that young age. We want to start with that social-emotional learning piece, because we know that a lot of the risk factors that sometimes go into substance use start at that early age right Of not knowing how to set goals, not knowing how to do that conflict resolution, not knowing how to talk to somebody or what is a healthy decision. What does that look like, right? So that's why we're starting with that social emotional piece.

Jerry Gretzinger: 4:37

All right, so I'm going to put you on the spot. Give me a scenario, right. So let's say, I know you said you're sort of the trainer for the teachers. You tell them how to go about this, but what type of a situation might a teacher encounter where she can then take what she's learned from you and say, oh okay, this is a social, emotional learning moment that I can make out of this, right, so tell us what the scenario would be and how the teacher kind of works that into something to be learned.

Jennifer Quinn: 5:05

Perfect. So a scenario that we commonly see in, maybe, say, middle school, elementary school, are two friends fighting, right, they're upset because one friend went to the mall with her friend and didn't invite the third friend. Right, so these friends are fighting. So we might see that happen in the school as well. They continue that fight from outside to the school to inside the school and the teacher might get involved and they might have them sit down and break it down and say, okay, so what were the decisions being made here? You know what can. How can we talk about this together?

Jennifer Quinn: 5:45

Because a lot of times when kids are in middle school or elementary school, the first thing that they're going to do is go find a teacher. Right, not a bad decision, right, still a good decision. But can we get these kids to start resolving these problems on their own Right? So the teacher might sit them down and say, ok, here's a worksheet, or let's do this in person and have a classroom discussion. Right, they might not bring that specific. These three kids are fighting, but, know, use a reading from one of the curriculums that are a very similar idea and talk about how could this person say this differently? How can this person you know, have a different behavior. What do you think was going through this person's mind? How did that person feel when they were left out? So it's a lot of questions that are eliciting emotional responses, having them critically think about the situation and build empathy for the kids.

Jerry Gretzinger: 6:43

So, as I'm listening to you explain it, it sounds like we're trying to teach children at this very early age that when there is a conflict and I think even many adults react this way. Right, there's a conflict and you think about how I feel, what motivated me to feel the way I do. It sounds like it's trying to give them an opportunity to think about the other person's point of view and be able to see it holistically that way and not just the emotions that it's made me feel.

Jennifer Quinn: 7:10

Exactly right, Perfect.

Jerry Gretzinger: 7:12

All right, all right, good. So now we're kind of laying down that groundwork, that baseline, early on, you said later on, middle school, elementary school even. We get to the point where we start introducing specific topics. How does that suddenly get kind of, you know, put into the mix?

Jennifer Quinn: 7:29

Yeah. So we start with a puppet program in our pre-K which is really focusing on that classroom management and friendship building. From there we go into elementary, which is second step, and that really focuses on goal setting. There we get into middle school where we're doing positive action and that's all about how we're making decisions, how we're setting goals. Then from there we're really getting more into high school and doing the drug substance use right. So we're building on all of these things.

Jennifer Quinn: 8:01

We're taking what we learned in pre-K and carrying it with us throughout the whole time until we get into that high school and middle school where we're talking about substance use. So when we get into substance use, we really take this harm reduction lens right. We're not here telling children that they're bad for doing things. We're here saying this is how it's going to affect your body. This is the choices that you can make, right? How does it affect your brain? How does it affect your body, right? What do you think it's going to feel like? What do you think? Why do you think somebody's using? So they are using these critically thinking skills that they learned from earlier on to apply it now to substance use.

Jerry Gretzinger: 8:38

Got it. So they've learned how to think again more holistically about a situation, and now we can apply it elsewhere

Jennifer Quinn: 8:44

Exactly.

Jerry Gretzinger: 8:45

And so, and if I'm not mistaken, Wyandanch was the first OASAS- funded school to work this program into the curriculum, right?

Jennifer Quinn: 8:53

Yep, the very first.

Jerry Gretzinger: 8:54

How many years has it been?

Jennifer Quinn: 9:02

So we are going on. We had one planning year to sign the contract and kind of figure out what programs we wanted to include, and now we're going into our second implementation year.

Jerry Gretzinger: 9:08

Okay

Jennifer Quinn: 9:08

So it's been about three.

Jerry Gretzinger: 9:09

Three. Okay, so I know we've got a couple of other school districts who've come on board since, which is great to see it growing. But so where do you think we're at right now? I know you said third year, but as far as like the impact that it's having, so those first kids you know they've got a couple of years in how do you see it working?

Jennifer Quinn: 9:28

So my favorite part about this program is when I get to go and observe the classes.

Jennifer Quinn: 9:35

So we'll be in the pre-K classes and we're hearing the kids from the beginning of the year right, they're new, they're finding their way. And at the end of the year they're able to incorporate the actual puppet that we use as a classmate. At the end of the year they actually teach the lessons to the puppet. And then, if we move up into the elementary school, we're hearing the kids use words like empathy. We're hearing them solve problems on their own or even teach other kids like when they're in their own problem, walk them through these steps of oh well, how do you think that person felt and how do you think you know why do you think they did that behavior? Because they felt that way, right. And then when we get into that high school and middle school, we're doing a little bit more substance use. We're doing a little bit more goal setting. We're seeing really a change in behavior. These curriculums are what is the word I'm looking for. They have so many great long-term Sorry.

Jerry Gretzinger: 10:36

It's all right Happens to me all the time.

Jennifer Quinn: 10:38

They have so many great long-term outcomes right. So, especially for our positive action, when you walk into a positive action school, you can tell it's a positive action school by the posters that they have. They have these papers that they fill out If they do something good or if they had a negative behavior, and then they're supposed to fill out. Okay, what is my behavior going to look after this, and why did maybe? Why did I do this Right? So we're seeing a lot of changes in the actual kids, specifically in their vocabulary and how they're behaving, which is a great thing to see. And what's great is that also, now they learned second step in elementary and they're going on to the middle school. We're seeing the growth from that and we're seeing that they're already prepared to do these SEL programs when they get to the middle school.

Jerry Gretzinger: 11:24

You know, you just kind of touched a little bit on what I wanted to ask next, so I first kind of got into that topic about. You know, how are you seeing those kids who are first exposed to it early on? You know learning the very, very basics about better decision-making. How do you see them grow? But so this is also when this started. We also went right into elementary, middle and high school and you were working with students who didn't have that baseline. I guess that we're setting up with the really young students now. What are you seeing as far as the change in the older age groups? Seeing that they didn't have this, you know, so many years ago back in, you know, first grade, whatever it may have been. What's the change like in them? Are they a little more resistant because they didn't have that beginning line like everyone else who's younger now?

Jennifer Quinn: 12:11

From what I've seen in the high school and really the middle school is, there's always going to be a little resistance in the beginning right, it's a new program or it's something that they're not always used to.

Jennifer Quinn: 12:20

But because the way that the program is set up is it's so collaborative with the teacher and the child and that's why it's important to have the teacher teach it. And also it's there for it's really community-based almost the kids are encouraged to ask questions and when we're able to do that in the classroom they're not as scared anymore. Usually, when we're seeing substance use and we're going into the classroom when we're working with teens, they're sometimes almost like they don't want to ask the questions because they're worried that there's going to be a stigma of oh, somebody's going to think that I'm smoking or somebody's going to think that I'm doing these things or I'm going to get made fun of for asking maybe a question that somebody already knows. But from what we've seen, really specifically in the high school, is these questions aren't as stigmatized anymore and it's helping the kids almost speak freely.

Jerry Gretzinger: 13:22

So there's all kinds of benefits that are coming out of this for all the different age groups.

Jennifer Quinn: 13:26

Exactly.

Jerry Gretzinger: 13:27

You know, and I think this is terrific because I know one of the reasons that you know obviously this started is because we want to be able to, you know, exercise prevention for substance use, you know, and help kids be able to think about addiction before it's too late, to the point where they may be dealing with one. But it sounds like there's a lot more benefits that can come out of this for them.

Jennifer Quinn: 13:48

Absolutely. It's not just about substance use anymore. Prevention really was when we first started in our OASAS time of prevention, where we go into all different schools and do these programs, it really was that focus of substance use. Substance use, how do we prevent this? How do we teach these kids? But now we're seeing that we need to start with the, you know, ground level, that baseline of how do we just talk about making healthy decisions and what do those look like, and then from that obviously we can grow on. How do we make good friendships? What do healthy friendships look like? How do I, you know, even set a goal? What is a realistic goal for me? Look like Right? So there are so many other benefits besides just that substance use prevention.

Jerry Gretzinger: 14:31

Well, I'll tell you what. As a father who's had five kids go through the school systems, I totally would have applauded a program that said, hey, we're going to teach your kids how to make better decisions, make better friendships and all that kind of stuff and more power to you.

Jerry Gretzinger: 14:47

And that's what I say to you and the other districts who are already involved, and I want to encourage others who are interested, you know, find out more information. Again, this is an OASAS-funded program and we're real excited to hear about what you're saying to us today, Jennifer, about what it is, how it's working, the impact you're seeing it make. So keep up the great work and we're just real thrilled about it.

Jennifer Quinn: 15:08

Thank you so much.

Jerry Gretzinger: 15:09

All right. So again, that's Jennifer Quinn from the Wyandanch School District. She is the Prevention Coordinator at HOPE for Youth and SIPEP Community Youth Prevention Education Programs. This was a great topic and if you want more information about this or anything else another OASAS program you can go to our website, oasas. ny. gov, and if you have questions about addiction, obviously our HOPE line 877-8-HOPE-NY. Thanks for checking out this episode of the podcast Addiction. The Next Step. I'm your host, Jerry Gretzinger, and until we see you again, be well.