A Secret Life In Casinos

Announcement 0:00

The New York State Office of Addiction Services and Supports, or OASAS, provides this podcast as a public service. Opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the agency or state. Welcome to Addiction the Next Step. I'm your host, Jerry Gretzinger. For many of us, an escape is a weekend getaway, a quiet afternoon off, maybe getting lost in a good book. But for our guest today, her idea of an escape was the hypnotic glare of a slot machine, the lights and sounds of a casino. When she went, she would vanish for hours, disappearing from friends, family, from life. She was caught in a dangerous cycle, a self-sustaining loop, working in the adult entertainment industry and as an exotic dancer, making quick cash that she'd immediately blow on gambling before rushing back to dance at another club so she'd have more money to pump into the machines. A destructive spiral that kept getting worse until she found a way out. She's asked that we refer to her only as Spike B. We traveled to Wantaugh, Long Island, to meet with her. She says gambling was introduced to her group in what's often viewed as harmless fun. And I remember being in church and they had little um fundraisers for the church where they had like a little peel back thing where there's three cherries or three clumps or three bells. And they would sell them to raise money for the church, and you could win money if you got like three bells or whatever. There was this nice little nice old lady, the old lady at church that had the candy that you would go and sit with her and she could give you candy. And uh she would always buy the little tickets, and so she would say, Oh, you want to peel some, you can peel some. And if I got one that was a winner, she would be so excited, and I'd be like, Oh, you won five dollars, and all of those things were exciting because you you know, people were excited for you, and you won won things and got prizes, and you know, at the time it felt nice, so it seemed like harmless fun. Where where did that lead you? Like, what what was the next step where things started getting a little bit more serious with the interesting gambling? Teen Poker Goes Online Um, probably in the teen years, uh, we started playing poker, you know, home games of poker with friends and stuff, and starts out innocently, you know, we'll play for marshmallows or whatever, and it was fine, and then it started being more money, and then it was, you know, we were gonna buy in again for more money, and then it was getting excessive, and then people were telling friends and bringing other people, so it was not just the close group of friends, and um that grew because we were not old enough to go to a casino yet, you know. Um, and so that grew and continued and got to be a bigger and bigger game until it was, you know, 12 to 15 people and two tables, and it got, you know, it it grew. Um, and that became slightly compulsive, and then um the online poker became a thing. And you didn't need to call friends and you didn't need to wait for people to come over. You could just go on the computer, put money on, and gamble. By the time she was 19, Spikes' online poker put her deep in debt. Her family stepped in and bailed her out, but despite the good intentions, that bailout was a setback. Because once we get bailed out, there's no consequences to what we've done. And so without consequences, we're gonna just go and do it again. But I was also at the time uh an exotic dancer, so I had plenty of cash coming in on a daily basis, and if I didn't have any cash, I'd go to work for a day and I'd get more. And you know, $800, $600, and Casino Convenience And Daily Play a day. So I was it was it wasn't a big deal to me. Money wasn't a value to me because I knew I could get more the next day. Spike would drive to Atlantic City or fly to Vegas, spend everything, and work extra shifts just to afford the trip back. When Casinos started opening closer to home, she no longer had to plan any travel. Just a 10-minute drive away, Spike started gambling daily. She also tried running her own business, managing several smoke and vape shops. But much of what she made there also went into those nearby slot machines. Eventually, she reached a breaking point when she was barely covering payroll. One Friday, she found herself $300 short to pay her staff. And I remember having an employee who was in his mid-20s and he had a two-year-old son, and his birthday was gonna be a Chuck E. Cheese that Saturday, and he needed to get paid on Friday to pay the Chuck E. Cheese bill for his son's birthday party turning two. And uh, so he said, you know, are we are we gonna get paid on time this week? Because I I really need to get paid on time this week. And I said, Yeah, no, you're gonna get paid on Friday. Payroll Money Lost In Minutes And I looked at the bank account and I was short by $300. And I could have tried to find a way to borrow $300, but as a compulsive gambler, you've already borrowed money from everywhere you can borrow money from. You've already stolen and taken money from everywhere you can take from because as you continue to gamble, you need to feed the disease. The disease wants more. And so there was nowhere to borrow that $300 from. And so I took out the $1,500 that I was going to use for payroll and said, I'll win the $300. I went to the casino that day, and I said, It's easy, I have $1,500. I can definitely win $300 with the $1,500, and I did the first six minutes, but I didn't want to stop. I wanted to keep going. So I said, Well, I'll just play a little bit more, just a little bit more. And then I kept going. And I lost everything, I was down to $30, almost everything, I was down to $30. And with that $30, I won back the $1,800. And I said, Yeah, I'm a master. I can do this. See? The universe wants me to have this money. Some higher power gambling god wants me to get back enough for payroll. And so I went to leave, and I had the $1,800 in my pocket, and I went to leave the casino and I got to the elevator, and the elevator door opens, and there was someone that I gambled with every day. And she said, Come sit with me. Let's play together for a little while. And nobody called it gambling. We called it playing because it was being a kid, it was playing, it was being irresponsible, it was having fun. And I went in and I said, I I really have to go. I just I won back enough for payroll. I'm gonna go put the money in the bank so my my employees get paid. She said, Oh, I'll put money in your machine, come sit with me. And she put a hundred in my machine, a hundred in her machine, our machines that we owned, because we had already paid for them a thousand times over. And we sat and I went through her hundred, and I went through, I'll just put in a hundred of mine. And the eighteen hundred dollars was gone in twenty minutes. Hello. Hey, um, do you think you can pick up Dave J for the meeting? Is he Gamblers Anonymous And “Just Today” a good one? That night, facing the weight of what she had done, Spike realized she had completely lost control. She went online, searched for support, and went to her first gamblers anonymous meeting on Long Island. But the grip of addiction didn't let go easily. I left the meeting with a little book that says Gambler's Anonymous and a little coin that said one day at a time, and I left the meeting, and I was like, There's a coin, it's lot machines at the casino, and this is stupid. And guess what? My spouse who kept pushing me and pushing me at that time to go to Gamblers Anonymous and to get help, he thinks I'm busy at this meeting, so I could go to the casino for at least two more hours. And I went right to the casino after that first meeting. And I got to the casino and tried to fight it. I tried to stop myself, and my hand went in my pocket and took the ATM card out and went to the machine, and I I literally didn't have control over my own body. I literally don't have control over what I'm doing. I need to get help. And so that night after I lost everything again and didn't have enough for payroll, I used my free play and the last hundred and forty dollars that was in the account. And then I went to another, I went on back on Gamblers Anonymous website and looked up a second meeting, and I went to a second meeting that night. And I they said, Why are you here? And I said, Because I I don't want to die. And I thought to myself, I'm dying. I'm literally dying. I'm gambling to death. I need help. And they said, You don't have to not gamble ever again. You just have to do it just for today. That's all you have to focus on is today. I celebrated eight years this week without gambling. That started with that day. That started with that day. Yeah. May 2nd, 2018. Congratulations. Thank you. You'll Recovery Brings Presence And Joy be surprised when you're not putting your energy into your addiction and into gambling and into the feeding that fever, and when you're not losing money, how fast you're able to pay people back, and how much energy you're able to put into your employment and your job and your life and your business. And I did. And um I'm debt other than a mortgage, I'm debt-free. And I have an amazing life now. I probably never thought you'd get to a debt-free moment like that, right? Not in the few years that I did it, no, but. Um today, what are the things that you're able to enjoy that kind of fulfill you that you weren't even giving your a chance to experience in those years gambling? I think one of the most painful things about compulsive gambling is that you're not present. I gambled to escape life. Unfortunately, when you're escaping life, you have no life. So there is no life. There's only gambling. So I missed everything. I mean, I was there, but I was not present. Um, you know, christenings, bar mitzvahs, parties, weddings, you know, even funerals where I needed to be present to be supportive for someone else, I was not there. My head was somewhere else. I stayed for as as long as was socially acceptable and then left and went to a casino. Christmas, Easter, Thanksgiving, holidays, Passover dinners, didn't matter. I was I was in and I was out as soon as I possibly could to get back to a casino. I missed life. And I think you know, you don't realize when you're gambling that you want to escape the pain because life is difficult, life can be painful, but you're escaping everything, you're escaping life. And I I tell this story sometimes. I said it was somewhere around a hundred days into program, into not gambling, into recovery, that I said, I want to, I want to get something for myself. Like I was making money that I wasn't losing, and I had some money in the bank, and I said, I want to spend seven dollars on this box of ice cream sandwiches. And they were fancy ice cream sandwiches, and they had MMs and the cookies, and you know, and I said, I want these. And I bought them and I put them in the freezer and forgot about them because I was too busy with work and meetings. And one day I opened the freezer and I took one out and I ate that ice cream sandwich, and every bite was like the most colorful explosion in my head of the most amazing thing I've ever had in my life. Today, Spike is a successful businesswoman, which she attributes to her eight years and counting of recovery. She says she's enjoying life like never before, and she can find an escape in the simplest of things, like an ice Help Resources And Closing cream sandwich. If you or someone you know is struggling with gambling, support is available. You can go to our website, oasas.ny.gov, or call our HOPELine 877-8-HopeNY. Help's available 24/7. Thanks for joining us. Until next time, I'm Jerry Gretzinger.

Jerry Gretzinger 0:22

For many of us, an escape is a weekend getaway, a quiet afternoon off, maybe getting lost in a good book. But for our guest today, her idea of an escape was the hypnotic glare of a slot machine, the lights and sounds of a casino. When she went, she would vanish for hours, disappearing from friends, family, from life. She was caught in a dangerous cycle, a self-sustaining loop, working in the adult entertainment industry and as an exotic dancer, making quick cash that she'd immediately blow on gambling before rushing back to dance at another club so she'd have more money to pump into the machines. A destructive spiral that kept getting worse until she found a way out.

Announcement 1:02

There's always a little bit of suspicion, probably for up.

Jerry Gretzinger 1:05

She's asked that we refer to her only as Spike B. We traveled to Wantaw, Long Island, to meet with her. She says gambling was introduced to her early in what's often viewed as harmless fun.

Early Gambling Felt Like Fun

Announcement 1:16

And I remember being in church, and they had little um fundraisers for the church where they had like a little peelback thing where there's three cherries or three plums or three bells. And they would sell them to raise money for the church, and you could win money if you got like three bells or whatever. And there was this nice little nice old lady, the old lady at church that had the candy that you would go and sit with her and she'd give you candy. And uh she would always buy the little tickets, and so she would say, Oh, you want to peel some, you could peel some. And if I got one that was a winner, she would be so excited, and I'd be like, Oh, she's like, You won five dollars, and all of those things were exciting because you, you know, people were excited for you, and you won won things and got prizes, and you know, at the time it felt nice, so it seemed like harmless, but where did that lead you?

Jerry Gretzinger 2:04

Like, what what was the next step where things started getting a little bit more serious with the interesting gambling?

Poker Turns Into Online Debt

Announcement 2:10

Um, probably in the teen years, uh, we started playing poker, you know, home games of poker with friends and stuff, and it starts out innocently, you know, we'll play for marshmallows or whatever, and it was fine, and then it started being more money, and then it was, you know, we were gonna buy in again for more money, and then it was getting excessive, and then people were telling friends and bringing other people, so it was not just the close group of friends, and um that grew because we were not old enough to go to a casino yet, you know. Um, and so that grew and continued and got to be a bigger and bigger game until it was, you know, 12 to 15 people and two tables, and it got, you know, it it grew. Um, and that became slightly compulsive, and then um the online poker became a thing. And you didn't need to call friends and you didn't need to wait for people to come over. You could just go on the computer, put money on, and gamble.

Jerry Gretzinger 3:08

By the time she was 19, Spikes' online poker put her deep in debt. Her family stepped in and bailed her out, but despite the good intentions, that bailout was a setback.

Easy Cash Fuels A Daily Habit

Announcement 3:19

Because once we get bailed out, there's no consequences to what we've done. And so without consequences, we're gonna just go and do it again. But I was also at the time uh an exotic dancer, so I had plenty of cash coming in on a daily basis, and if I didn't have any cash, I'd go to work for a day. And I'd get more. And, you know, $800, $600, and a day. So I was it was it wasn't a big deal to me. Money wasn't a value to me because I knew I could get more the next day.

Jerry Gretzinger 3:48

Spike would drive to Atlantic City or fly to Vegas, spend everything, and work extra shifts just to afford the trip back. When Costino started opening closer to home, she no longer had to plan any travel. Just a 10-minute drive away, Spike started gambling daily. She also tried running her own business, managing several smoke and vape shops. But much of what she made there also went into those nearby slot machines. Eventually, she reached a breaking point when she was barely covering payroll. One Friday, she found herself $300

The Payroll Money Disappears

Jerry Gretzinger 4:20

short to pay her staff.

Announcement 4:22

And I remember having an employee who was in his mid-20s and he had a two-year-old son, and his birthday was gonna be a Chuck E. Cheese that Saturday, and he needed to get paid on Friday to pay the Chuck E. Cheese bill for his son's birthday party turning two. And uh, so he said, you know, are we are we gonna get paid on time this week? Because I I really need to get paid on time this week. And I said, Yeah, no, you're gonna get paid on Friday. And I looked at the bank account and I was short by $300. And I could have tried to find a way to borrow $300, but as a compulsive gambler, you've already borrowed money from everywhere you can borrow money from. You've already stolen and taken money from everywhere you can take from because as you continue to gamble, you need to feed the disease. The disease wants more. And so there was nowhere to borrow that $300 from. And so I took out the $1,500 that I was going to use for payroll and said, I'll win the $300. I went to the casino that day, and I said, It's easy, I have $1,500. I can definitely win $300 with the $1,500, and I did the first six minutes, but I didn't want to stop. I wanted to keep going. So I said, Well, I'll just play a little bit more, just a little bit more. And then I kept going. And I lost everything, I was down to $30, almost everything, I was down to $30. And with that $30, I won back the $1,800. And I said, Yeah, I'm a master. I can do this. See? The universe wants me to have this money. Some higher power gambling god wants me to get back enough for payroll. And so I went to leave, and I had the $1,800 in my pocket, and I went to leave the casino and I got to the elevator, and the elevator door opens, and there was someone that I gambled with every day. And she said, Come sit with me. Let's play together for a little while. And nobody called it gambling. We called it playing because it was being a kid, it was playing, it was being irresponsible, it was having fun. And I went in and I said, I really have to go. I just I won back enough for payroll. I'm gonna go put the money in the bank so my my employees get paid. She said, Oh, I'll put money in your machine, come sit with me. And she put a hundred in my machine, a hundred in her machine, our machines that we owned, because we had already paid for them a thousand times over. And we sat and I went through her hundred, and I went through, I'll just put in a hundred of mine. And the eighteen hundred dollars was gone in twenty minutes. Hello. Hey, um, do you think you can pick up Dave J for the meeting?

Jerry Gretzinger 6:47

Is he a little bit of a That night, facing the weight of what she had done, Spike realized she had completely lost

First Meeting Then Straight Back

Jerry Gretzinger 6:53

control. She went online, searched for support, and went to her first gamblers anonymous meeting on Long Island. But the grip of addiction didn't let go easily.

Announcement 7:02

I left the meeting with a little book that says Gambler's Anonymous and a little coin that said one day at a time, and I left the meeting, and I was like, There's a coin, it's lot machines at the casino, and this is stupid. And guess what? My spouse, who kept pushing me and pushing me at that time to go to Gamblers Anonymous and to get help, he thinks I'm busy at this meeting, so I could go to the casino for at least two more hours. And I went right to the casino after that first meeting. And I got to the casino and tried to fight it. I tried to stop myself, and my hand went in my pocket and took the ATM card out and went to the machine, and I I literally didn't have control over my own body. I literally don't have control over what I'm doing. I need to get help. And so that night, after I lost everything again and didn't have enough for payroll, I used my free play and the last hundred and forty dollars that was in the

One Day At A Time Recovery

Announcement 7:53

account. And then I went to another, I went on back on Gamblers Anonymous website and looked up a second meeting, and I went to a second meeting that night. And I they said, Why are you here? And I said, Because I I don't want to die. And I thought to myself, I'm dying. I'm literally dying. I'm gambling to death. I need help. And they said, You don't have to not gamble ever again. You just have to do it just for today. That's all you have to focus on is today. I celebrated eight years this week without gambling.

Jerry Gretzinger 8:24

That started with that day.

Announcement 8:26

That started with that day. Yeah, May 2nd, 2018.

Jerry Gretzinger 8:29

Congratulations.

Announcement 8:31

Thank you. You'll be surprised when you're not putting your energy into your addiction and into gambling and into the feeding that fever, and when you're not losing money, how fast you're able to pay people back, and how much energy you're able to put into your employment and your job and your life and your business. And I did. And um I'm debt other than a mortgage, I'm debt-free. And I have an amazing life now.

Jerry Gretzinger 8:55

I probably never thought you'd get to a debt-free moment like that, right? Not in the years that I the few years that I did it, no, but um today, what are the things that you're able to enjoy that kind of fulfill you that you weren't even giving your a chance to experience in those years gambling?

Being Present Comes Back

Announcement 9:15

I think one of the most painful things about compulsive gambling is that you're not present. I gambled to escape life. Unfortunately, when you're escaping life, you have no life. So there is no life. There's only gambling. So I missed everything. I mean, I was there, but I was not present. Um, you know, christenings, bar mitzvahs, parties, weddings, you know, even funerals where I needed to be present to be supportive for someone else, I was not there. My head was somewhere else. I stayed for as as long as was socially acceptable and then left and went to a casino. Christmas, Easter, Thanksgiving, holidays, Passover dinners, didn't matter. I was I was in and I was out as soon as I possibly could to get back to a casino. I missed life. And I think you know, you don't realize when you're gambling that you want to escape the pain. Because life is difficult. Life can be painful, but you're escaping everything, you're escaping life. And I I tell this story sometimes. I said it was somewhere around a hundred days into program, into not gambling, into recovery, that I said, I want to, I want to get something for myself. Like I was making money that I wasn't losing, and I had some money in the bank, and I said, I want to spend seven dollars on this box of ice cream sandwiches. And they were fancy ice cream sandwiches, and they had MMs and the cookies, and you know, and I said, I want these. And I bought them and I put them in the freezer and forgot about them because I was too busy with work and meetings. And one day I opened the freezer and I took one out and I ate that ice cream sandwich, and every bite was like the most colorful explosion in my head of the most amazing thing I've ever had in my life.

Jerry Gretzinger 11:00

Today, Spike is a successful businesswoman, which she attributes to her eight years and counting of recovery. She says she's enjoying life like never before, and she can find an escape in the simplest of things, like an ice

Help For Problem Gambling

Jerry Gretzinger 11:14

cream sandwich. If you or someone you know is struggling with gambling, support is available. You can go to our website, oastestest.ny.gov, or call our hope line. 8778HopeNY helps available 24 7. Thanks for joining us. Until next time, I'm Jerry Gretzinger.