The Spring Forward Podcast

Ethics in Grant Writing

• Spring Richardson-Perry • Episode 38

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Join host Spring Richardson Perry and Althea Lewis as they discuss the ethics of grant writing and the controversial practice of contingency-based compensation. 

Here are some key takeaways

• Grant writers should never be paid on a contingency basis or only if a grant is awarded
• Ethical concerns center around integrity, trust, and being good stewards of funder money
• Pay-on-success models incentivize chasing large grants rather than focusing on organizational mission
• Federal grants may allow for indirect costs that can cover grant writing services
• Capacity building grants sometimes permit grant writing expenses but verify with the funder first
• Strong grant proposals require clear directions, alignment with funder priorities, and specific measurable outcomes
• Sustainability plans should leverage partnerships beyond just securing additional funding
• AI should only be used as a thought partner, not to write complete grant proposals
• Grants often go unfunded due to limited money available, not poor proposal quality
• Always request reviewer comments to strengthen future applications

To learn more about ethical grant writing practices or join Althea Lewis's Grant Writing Academy starting May 12th, contact her at contact@lewisgrantwriting.com or find her on Instagram at lewis4grants.


Speaker 1:

Hey, nonprofit friends, welcome to the Spring Forward podcast, where we talk about all things nonprofit, from board discord to grant writing and strategic planning tips. If you're an executive director, nonprofit board member or just someone heavily involved in the nonprofit sector, then this is the podcast for you. Let's spring forward into excellence, and this is the podcast for you. Let's spring forward into excellence. Welcome, welcome everyone to another episode of the Spring Forward podcast. I'm your host, Spring Richardson Perry, and I'm super excited today to be talking to you guys about the ethics of grant writing.

Speaker 1:

Recently there's been some things happening in the grant writing world, in the nonprofit world, and I really want to lift some things up and bring it to light. And to help me talk about that today I have Ms Athea Lewis. She is the president of Lewis Grant Writing Services, excuse me and she has a master's degree in business administration and is currently pursuing a doctoral degree in educational leadership let's go, girl and she has a certificate, or is pursuing her certificate, in nonprofit management as well. She has over 20 years experience in grant writing and has successfully secured over $50 million in grant funding for nonprofits, faith-based organizations, school districts and universities. She currently teaches various grant writing and nonprofit seminars through the Small Business Center for over a dozen local community colleges, and she serves as a peer reviewer for several federal agencies.

Speaker 1:

So clearly this is the one you want on your team, guys, All right. So I'm super excited to bring her on today. She's been at, she's presented at, several conferences nationwide, such as the National Council of University Research Administrators, Grant Professionals Association and the Hampton University Ministers Conference. So, without further ado, let us welcome Ms Althea Lewis. Hi, Althea.

Speaker 2:

Hi Spring, how are you doing? I am well.

Speaker 1:

Thank you so much for being here. How are you?

Speaker 2:

today I'm doing well. Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited.

Speaker 1:

I am super excited to talk about this because when I first reached out to you, you know, something kind of weird happened and I was like is this like happening, you know, is this something that's happening everywhere? How often is this happening? And then it happened again and I was like you know what? We need to talk about this because, you know, this is something that I think is happening more and more in the grant writing world and we're not really talking about it. And what I'm saying, guys, here is that in the grant writing world, as grant writing professionals, there's a fee for that right. There's a fee for service, just for about anything that you want someone else to do for you, right? And so every grant writer has their way of working, what their set price is, what they do for that price and all those different things. But lately I've been encountering people who ask me well, can we pay you when we get awarded the grant? And the professional association of grant writers, the grant professionals association, they will warn you against that right.

Speaker 1:

And so there are a lot of different associations, nonprofit associations, grant writing associations that will say, well, hey, number one, it's not really ethical to do it that way, but number two, like you're doing the work, and so, whether the organization gets awarded the grant or not, you still need to be compensated for the work that you've done. And so we're going to be really, really talking about this today and lifting this up, because this seems to be more and more of a common practice, and it really shouldn't be. And so that's kind of where I want to start, althea. It's like you know what are the ethical concerns around that, where you're only being paid if the grant is awarded, and you know how does that affect the transparency and the use of those funds that the grant is actually for?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, that's an excellent question, Spring, and really the ethical concerns are centered around integrity and trust. Grant funders really expect us to be, you know, good stewards of the money that they are, you know, entrusted to us or any nonprofits or any organization. They expect you to spend the money according to what you said in the budget. You know, and more than likely, they're not going to allow you to put the fee of a grant writer in your budget, okay, and so they want to see impact. They want to see their money being used for the community, um, or things to help get your project implemented.

Speaker 2:

So when it comes to that, it's really important that nonprofits stay focused on their mission. You know they're. You know that's why they're there, right there. That's their purpose. And there's also that concern of the grant writer prioritizing getting this large commission or getting all of this money versus focusing on the mission of their client and helping them to make a larger impact in the community, and we want to see those dollars used for the community. Of course, we know that as a grant writer or any grant professional, you have to make money in order to stay in business, but that's not the way to do it.

Speaker 1:

Absolutely, and I love how you kept centering around the mission. Every nonprofit organization exists because of a specific mission, because they recognized that there was a gap in the community somewhere.

Speaker 1:

And so they set out to fill this gap and that became the mission of the organization. And so when you start talking about, you know, getting grants and funding and all these different things, and you start talking about paying grant writers on the back end, well then that starts to bring up concerns about how they're going to write this grant to actually get the money, because then it starts to be like, well, are they, you know? Is this truly what the organization is doing, or what are the motives that this person had for even writing this in the first place? So that becomes an issue. But also, I kind of want to circle back to something else you said too, when you said that grants don't typically allow for you to put that cost in there to compensate the grant writer. And so there are ways to compensate your grant writer and especially if you're going for federal funding, right, because in those indirect costs, that's what cover those administrative costs when you're looking at federal funding.

Speaker 1:

And sometimes with state and local funding, they allow for those indirect costs too. But when you're looking at private foundations, that's a whole different ballgame, that's a whole other story, and the funds typically are more flexible in my experience when it comes to the private sector and the private foundations that give out the grant money. But you have to outline how you're going to use that money, and so you know. It kind of just brings me to, you know, equity in this space, right? Yeah, If we're talking about the pay on success model, you know how is that affecting it?

Speaker 2:

you know, well, you know that's a great question too, because you know, in grant writing, you know we are, you know you're expected to have these high success rates, right. You know nowhere else in any other industry. You know we are, you know you're expected to have these high success rates, right. You know, nowhere else in any other industry, you know, for example, federal grants can take you 100 plus hours to write.

Speaker 1:

Oh my gosh don't even get me started on federal grants.

Speaker 2:

Exactly. And people expect you to have these high returns on their you know success rates and hey, who doesn't want to be successful in writing grants and federal grants? But that's a lot of work to not, of course, be paid for your work. So sometimes people say, hey, wait till the grant is funded. Well, what if the grant is not funded? Ok, what if that happens? Because that rejection happens in this industry. So you have put all of this sweat equity, all this work in to that grant proposal and you haven't, you're not going to get paid. So that's an issue, right. And so you know.

Speaker 2:

I've heard someone say that when you go to the doctor and they prescribe you a medicine, you don't tell well, if this doesn't work or I don't get better, you can't do my insurance, ok, so you've got to have that same mindset. You can't do that with grant writing, right. So you have to be able to understand that it takes a lot of work. Takes a lot of work, but when it comes to that equity piece that you were talking about, it can be a problem, because if a grant writer is only working on this contingency basis, they're going to be looking for these large grants so that they can get a higher commission, and to me, that means you are not focusing on first of all.

Speaker 2:

That's not ethical, but you're not focusing on the right things. You're focusing on the money versus focusing on first of all. That's not ethical, but you're not focusing on the right things. You're focusing on the money versus focusing on, like I said, helping your client to obtain. You know um the course of funding, but you want to help them to get their mission out there right. To focus on the mission. You need to be mission driven um, and so it can't be all about the money. You know, grant writing goes beyond that. It's also about building relationships with some of these funders.

Speaker 1:

Yes, and that's one of the biggest things that I tell my clients is yes, we're going to be going after the money because we need to fund your mission, and that's why I got started in this industry in the first place, because I want to see these organizations have a greater impact and I want to be able to help them to have a greater impact. It's not about the money, because having a greater impact goes beyond the money.

Speaker 1:

There are other ways to have impact, and that's and that's what I'm always looking at ways to have impact, and that's what I'm always looking at. What else can we do so that you guys have a greater impact in the community? So it goes far beyond just writing grants. Don't get me wrong, that is a significant portion of what I do, but it goes beyond that. Because, in order for a nonprofit organization to be successful, or a school or you know, the faith based organizations because these are, these are the ones who are typically out there getting these grants, looking for these grants, in order for them to have the impact that they need to have, they also need to have a sound structure, internal structure. And so those are some of the things that I help them with as well, so that they can continue to have a larger impact in the community. And when the community sees that your organization is always there to serve, then they in turn want to support you, and that turns into individual contribution dollars, that turns into corporate partnerships you know what I mean. That turns into partnerships with other maybe nonprofits or other organizations in the area where you have sort of complimentary services, right. And so it's about more than just the money and to expect someone to do all this work.

Speaker 1:

And, mind you, this is why you went and got this person to do the work, because you couldn't do it yourself. Not because you don't know how, but because, simply, you either don't have the time, maybe you don't have the know-how or can really put the words together in an impactful way to you know, state what it is that you're doing in your community, right, but there was a reason why you went to go seek someone to do this for you, and the simple fact that you felt that it was valuable to have an external person come in to help you. Or to hire a full-time grant writer as a W-2 employee what have you? Whatever way you're doing it, they deserve to be compensated fairly and whatever that compensation is, if they're a contract employee, then understand the way that they work, how their fees are structured, and if that's within your budget or what you're okay with, go for it. If it's not, then you need to find someone that is. But clearly I'm on a tangent and this is near and dear to my heart.

Speaker 2:

No, this is really tough because you said you said something so important about the infrastructure you know, and a lot of times people don't have that in place and they just see, oh, there's money available and they're not even ready to go out the grant. So that's also an issue, too, as well.

Speaker 1:

But I want to talk about this because you know in the beginning, when you mentioned not being able to write in the grant writer's fee into most of your grants, you know, like we said, some federal grants allow for you to put in the indirect costs that you can use to reimburse, compensate or however you're going to do your budget for that particular grant. But what are some other ways that organizations can fund this? What are some ways that they can find the money to pay the grant writer?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so a lot of times, some nonprofits may have some general operating funds from other ways, from other sources. They may have some unrestricted funds. They may have some donations, other sources, um, they may have some unrestricted funds. They may have some donations. That may be another way to get you know a lot of non-profits. That's so important that you're looking for multiple streams of income coming in versus just relying solely on grants, which is another issue here. You always want to have multiple streams of revenue coming in for your nonprofit, but you have to sustain.

Speaker 2:

As we look at the current landscape right now with grants, there is some uncertainty about the future even of some of the federal grants, and so a lot of people are shifting away from the federal grants. I'm not saying that they're going to be gone forever. No, they're going to be there. They may not be as many as they were in the past, but we have to think about how other ways you can fund these kind of things, and so your foundation money is going to be restricted about, you know, restrictive about how you can spend those funds as well, too. You're not going to be able to, more than likely, place a grant writer into the budget now. There are maybe very few capacity building grants out here that might allow something like that, but that's when I would be extremely careful about those grants.

Speaker 2:

You want to get it in writing from the funder that this is an allowable cost, but you want to do everything that you're supposed to do with the funding. And it's all about trust. Nonprofit funders are funders of nonprofits all these foundations, federal grants, whoever. They're looking to know. They're looking to see if they can trust you and if they cannot trust you with their funds, if you go and pay a grant writer and you didn't get permission to do that or it wasn't something that was allowable, then they're going to question well, what else would you do with our money? Yes, you know. Yes.

Speaker 1:

That's just. That's just like, if you are, if you're in a. I'm going to give y'all an example. Okay, yeah, I was like, so it's a funny story, because I was in labor with my baby girl. It was about two years ago exactly and the school called and I was like what is going on? Like they know, I'm in labor, what is happening? So they were telling a story about my daughter. She had brought a lot of money to school that day and they thought it was very odd, because they were like, well, yeah, because there was a book fair going on. And they were like, well, yeah, it was a book fair, but we know, ms Perry, you don't really operate like this. So we just thought it was kind of odd.

Speaker 1:

So we, you know, we took, we took the money, we put it in an envelope, we're going to send it back home with her. Well, she got into my husband's rainy day fund jar and had a field day, right. And so we were like girl, what are you doing? What are you thinking? You know better than this. You don't just go in there and just take money. I'm thinking, oh my gosh, I have a criminal on my hands. This is like, let me get my bail money together for this child as we get older.

Speaker 1:

Okay, first of all, extreme, not the case at all. This happens. She can do this, it is okay, she's fine now. But right then, and there, in that short time period when things will go missing, we're like, oh, did you take it? You know, and this is how funders see things right, and you break that trust and maybe unknowingly you're breaking that trust. Is what she did? She knew she did something wrong, but she didn't realize how big of a deal it was Right. And so you know, you have to be very careful with how you do this because, um, because funders want to help you with your mission. If, what? If what you do aligns with what they fund, then, uh, if, if it's, if it's enough money available to fund all the people who are asking, who are in alignment with them, then they're more than likely going to do it.

Speaker 1:

But what you outline in that proposal has to be what you're spending the money on, and I think that's where a lot of organizations lose sight of things they do, and especially the ones that are smaller nonprofits with smaller budgets, who don't have a larger staff, or they maybe have a program coordinator. They may have an accounting person, program coordinator. They may have an accounting person, whether it's a bookkeeper or a CFO or someone in the finance industry, that is dedicated to watching the funds. This may surprise you all, but not all nonprofit organizations even have a finance person on staff Exactly, and so sometimes the executive director is doing the best that they know how to do in terms of carrying out the mission, using the money appropriately, and sometimes things just kind of fall through the cracks.

Speaker 1:

And then, when the funders ask for their report and ask for, you know, a printout of how you use the funds, and they're going through it with their fine tooth comb, they're like wait a minute, that's not what you said in this proposal. So now they're going to say some some put you on a list and you can't ever. So now they're going to say some some put you on a list and you can't ever, you know, apply again. Some say, ok, you have to wait two years, three years, maybe five years before you can reapply. And so you just, you just have to be very careful. But but also, I want to talk about this too, because you mentioned capacity building grants, right, and I actually saw a lot of those last year.

Speaker 2:

But, with the new administration they put, building grants are exactly what the name says it builds your capacity to be able to carry out your mission Right. So sometimes a lot of these small nonprofits especially them, even some larger ones can get them, of course, but these small nonprofits may not have the ability to, like you said, write a grant. Maybe they don't have their board fully developed, maybe their board needs some training, maybe you might need to purchase some type of equipment or technology, so in order to get your project off the ground right. And so these grants are specifically to help to strengthen your capacity or you, and to make that, of course, that large impact in the community. But there's, you know, specifically designated to help to strengthen your capacity to carry out your project. But, like I said, you're going to find some that are going to more focus on, of course, like your board development.

Speaker 2:

Like I said, I've seen one or two here that might allow a grant writer. But, like I said, you want to be extremely careful to make sure that, even with these capacity building grants, that you are using them in the capacity that should be used, and so you still want to be, you know, extra careful. But, like I said, it is definitely for organizations that don't have the infrastructure in place that they need in order to get started, and a lot of funders understand that that not everyone starts out at the same level, at the same playing field, right, some nonprofits need that extra support they need for their maybe their board doesn't have the knowledge that they need in order to help run the nonprofit. You know, investing in some kind of training like that, maybe they can help pay for staff development. Maybe your staff you have a new executive director that doesn't have the knowledge.

Speaker 2:

Like you said, they may be doing all that they can just to keep things afloat, but maybe they don't have the skills of how to know how to write a grant, maybe that can help to build the capacity of your staff, of your organization, your board. So those are ways that you can use those grants.

Speaker 1:

Absolutely, and I love you know how you really define this, because it is really just that simple y'all. Capacity building grants are to build your capacity to be able to carry out your mission. So whatever that looks like right, your board has to be trained. They have to understand what their role is in governance of the organization and I find a lot of times board members are comprised of good people that want to do good work but they don't understand what it means to actually be on the board of a nonprofit organization, understand what it means to actually be on the board of a nonprofit organization, and that looks very different.

Speaker 1:

If you were on the board of a directors for a for-profit organization, you know. One of the most obvious ways is that sometimes for-profit boards are compensated, whereas in nonprofit boards they're often not. They can be it's not illegal, it has to be disclosed but oftentimes they're not compensated as a board member of a nonprofit organization. But there are stark differences in for-profit boards and nonprofit boards and a capacity building grant Sometimes I've seen these as well that can build capacity for your board so that they can be the steering committee of the organization in the appropriate way. So there's grants out there that can help with those things. But again, if you're thinking of hiring a grant writer, you have to make sure that you understand how that grant writer works. You have to understand what their fees are, what that structure looks like. And then you have to I mean you have to either you agree to it or you don't. And if you don't, then you know move on and find someone who fits into your budget.

Speaker 1:

But you cannot expect that someone is going to work on a contingency basis or for free or for free at all, because because there's a lot of work that goes into writing these grants, and this is kind of what I want to segue into here.

Speaker 1:

Althea, is, you've been on review boards and having to, you know, review grants, whether they get awarded or not, and I've been in that capacity as well. And so I want to kind of shift and talk about what makes a strong grant proposal, because, for our listeners, I think this will be super helpful for them, for the ones who are trying to do it all, wearing all the hats that need to figure out okay, I can't afford a grant writer right now, so I need to figure out how I'm going to do this and write these grants in an impactful way. So how can they do that? What makes a strong grant proposal?

Speaker 2:

Excellent question. I would say first of all, you want to follow the directions. That is the golden rule in grant writing Follow the direction.

Speaker 1:

No, that sounds like the craziest thing to say, but I'm telling you, when you've been on a review board, a grant review board, I look at the directions and you look at board. You will look at the directions and you'll look at the proposal and you'll look at the directions again and you'll be like well, I know, I said, maybe I'm reading this wrong because that's not what they did. And so, yes, follow directions. This is the most basic thing, right?

Speaker 2:

Yes, because that is a sure way of your grant more than likely getting rejected. More than likely OK. So I would say, after you have read the directions and follow the directions, making sure that there is alignment with what the funder is looking to fund. If you're a project in alignment with their funding priorities and if it's not, this is not the funding opportunity for you and if it's not, this is not the funding opportunity for you. Stop, take the time and find another grant that fits your project perfectly. I always believe that there's something out there that can fund your mission. There's some kind of funding out there that can help you get your mission and vision off the ground. You just have to be diligent and take the time to find that funding. I and then I would say if you know that there is alignment and this is a perfect fit, like they're funding priorities aligned directly with what you want to do, then I would say to make sure that you have a strong need statement. You know needs, your project description, all of that right, because you can't have a grant proposal without some type of problem or something you're trying to solve. So it's going to be very important that you know what the problem is in your community and then how your project or program is going to be the solution to that specific problem. And then making sure that you know what success looks like, like what success metrics will you put in place, because you can't just say, oh, we're gonna serve 20 people, but then what else are you going to be doing, right? So what? Oh, we're gonna serve people. You need to be specific. We're gonna serve this many people. We're gonna do these things by 2025, end of 2025, we we're going to do these things. You know, by 2025, end of 2025, we're going to be able to do these things.

Speaker 2:

So you need to make sure your metrics are measurable, your goals and objectives are clear about what action sustainability sustainability, because you have to think about how are you going to sustain this program or project beyond the grant funds. There's going to be a time that you're going to spend all the money and if you don't have a plan in place that says, once we spent this money or we've done this, we're going to continue this project by doing X, y, z. You know, do you have other funding that you're going to work? You know, do you have other funding in place that you're going to use to keep this going? Do you have some partnerships that you have in place? You want to.

Speaker 1:

Also, when you talk about sustainability, you also want to go beyond just securing additional funding, but you also want to leverage your partnerships and collaborations with other agencies as well yes, this is perfect, guys, because I see this a lot where, um in in the narrative, we're not describing what those measurable outcomes will be, what specific outcomes will happen because of this money.

Speaker 1:

So, for instance, I'm going to give you an example, right, um, I sit on on on two boards here in my local area. One is a children's non-profit, one is about domestic violence and sexual assault, and the one one for domestic violence. We are working on building a transitional housing, a women's shelter, here in this area. So, as we talk about, as we go out, and we talk about what it is that we're trying to do, what outcome are we looking to accomplish with this transitional housing? Well, it's several things, and I'm going to give you specific examples, and this is these are the things that you need to keep in mind as you're writing your proposals. You need specifics, right? So'm going to give you let me find it, because I don't want to tell you the wrong things, but Texas is seventh in the nation when it comes to femicide, which is death by an intimate partner.

Speaker 1:

And so that's in the top 10. That's ridiculous, right, in this area alone we have two counties. We have San Patricio and Aransas County, right, and so we're considered rural areas. The closest shelter is about 45 minutes away going to Corpus. The closest shelter is about 45 minutes away going to Corpus or about an hour away in Victoria. And so our goal is to be able to have women to be able to stay in their community where they're supported, where their children are already in school, already enrolled, where they want to maintain a sense of normalcy for their children's lives and for their own lives. Right, they want to get away from their abuser, but they don't want to be removed from the community. Now, sometimes being removed is necessary, but not always. But what outcomes are we specifically looking for? So we are going to help women to be self-sufficient, because what we understand is that when women are in these abusive relationships, control has led the relationship mainly on the abuser's part, so they're not really good with money. So we have financial literacy, legal advocacy so that they can get some assistance with legally detaching themselves from this person. Also the life skills program, where they get some parenting classes. This is a partnership with the children's organization that comes in to help with that.

Speaker 1:

And so these are specific examples, guys, of specific outcomes that we're looking to achieve, and these are the things that you have to outline in your narrative that supports what you need this funding for, because legal fees ain't cheap. They are not. Lawyers do not come cheap. So that's one thing. Right. When we talk about financial literacy, right, that's something that we can a workshop that we can hold, but we have to pay the facilitator. Right. When we talk about an independent life skills program, we have to pay for the licensing for that actual program itself.

Speaker 1:

So these are all things that I'm giving you specific outcomes, what they will achieve because of these programs, why there is a cost, why they're able to get access to these things. So these are the things that make a strong grant proposal. Those are the specifics and how you sort of outline those things and talk about those things in your grant proposal, and a lot of times you have to be able to do it within a certain amount of words, so I can help you with those things. But let me tell you something yeah, don't go to AI and say put in a question, it gives you an answer, and then you copy and paste that thank you, I appreciate you saying that on record, please.

Speaker 2:

Technology has its place, but, yes, don't depend on AI to write your review. You want your project better than AI or anyone else, and if you can't put it in your own words, then, yeah, that can be a problem. But you need to be able to communicate what the impact is going to be and what you're going to do and what you're seeking to accomplish. But don't just put a sentence in and expect AI to give you a wonderful answer, because one of the things it won't be able to do is give you specifics and the detail, like you just mentioned.

Speaker 1:

Right, because it doesn't know those details. I know those details AI doesn't know. It can give me suggestions if I'm feeling stuck and then I can go take those suggestions. Just like the sentence starters when we were like in first, second grade and your teacher had those little things around the classroom to help you start your sentences when you need to write your sentences right.

Speaker 1:

And so that's what AI is. It is just a thought partner to give you some ideas so that you can elaborate on these things, but it don't don't use it to do the work for you. Yes, because we can detect that, yeah.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and I won't be surprised that there will be software eventually out here that when funders might be able to do that and they may be already something out there they can detect that. But I mean, ai is, is very. There's some common words I would tell people to trick. Take out, take a look at some of the common words that ai uses and that might give some people a clue about. Maybe you want to avoid these words, um, but come up with the idea and you can always use it to. You know, maybe if you got some grammar situation or something, you need to just tighten up or something like that, but not to write your whole proposal.

Speaker 1:

Absolutely, I agree. Yeah, well, this was. This was super, super fun for me because, as y'all know, grant writing is my jam, but also just but also just supporting nonprofits and helping them to have a greater impact in their community. Those are things I really love to do, so I really appreciate you, Althea. Thank you so much.

Speaker 2:

Thank you so much, frank, for having me. This has been so wonderful. It's good to have this conversation because this is such an important topic and people need to understand the ethics about grant writing and what you can and cannot do. And paying a grant writer after the fact is something that no grant writer should be doing. Whether you seasoned or established or or just starting out, make sure you don't get paid after the fact in terms of excuse me, once, once the grant is funded, that you wait to get funded to get paid.

Speaker 1:

Because if it's not funded, then what happens?

Speaker 1:

What happens to all this work and there's a number of reasons why grants don't get funded. It isn't necessarily your proposal wasn't good enough. Perhaps they didn't have enough funding to give to everybody, and that's typically what happens. But if you, if you continue to reach out to that organization, you start to form relationships with, with, with their board members, their staff members, the review board then, and they start to learn more and more about your program and what it is that you're doing, you will eventually get funded. It takes some, some time, some effort, some consistency, but it's not always because your proposal wasn't good enough that you didn't get funded. Yeah, you know, most times it's simply because there was not enough to go around for everybody.

Speaker 2:

That's exactly right and, like you said, you served on a lot of these review panels and that is something that's beyond your control.

Speaker 2:

You know, in terms of you know, if the funder receives so many grants and if yours didn't rise to the level of excellence, you might have had a great proposal. Might have been wonderful, but there was just so many applications and, like you said, there's only so much money that can go around. And you know I always tell people this is that even if your grant is not funded, you should always get the reviewer comments back. And you should always get them back even if you are funded, because that is a way for you to be able to strengthen your proposal. Just because you were funded doesn't mean everything was perfect either. There could still be some weaknesses that you need to identify in your application. So always get the reviewer comments if the funder will make them available absolutely.

Speaker 1:

Some organizations offer that, some don't, um, and if they don't, then you just got to keep it moving. But always ask, and if they get, if they're willing to give you feedback, then, um, you know, take that feedback and use it with the next one that you're going to write, but I truly appreciate you being here. Althea, anyone, if anyone, wants to get in touch with you, um, how do they?

Speaker 2:

do that. Yeah, so they can reach me at my email is contact at lewis l-e-w-i-s. As in sam grant writing, all one word dot com. So contact at lewis grant writing dot com. You can follow me on linkedin althea a-l-t. As in tom h-e-a, lewis um. Also on instagram is lewis the number four grants with an S as well, so excited to reach out. If they can reach out to me, I'll be more than happy to answer any questions.

Speaker 1:

Absolutely, and I'll be sure to link this in the notes online for you guys, and also any upcoming events or any things you have going on, althea that you want to talk about yeah, and since we and since we were talking about, you know, building capacity.

Speaker 2:

One of the things that I'm doing right now, given this current grant you know landscape for grants and things like that I am offering my grant writing academy. This is the second cohort. It starts on May 12th and it has an option for people to learn how to write grants. It is a one-on-one coaching academy, so it's not like you're in a class with 10 other people, but it's one-on-one where I am providing that one-on-one coaching and feedback, giving you reviews on your grant as you're writing it, and it also comes with video lectures as well and handbooks and resources to help you write a grant. So there is the one-on-one coaching uh cool, uh. Part to it, and then there's also a self-paced part. Some people say, hey, I know how to do that, just need a good refresher. Then that is something you might want to invest in. So that opens up on may 12th and I'm excited to to get this next cohort off the ground. So, and I'm excited to get this next cohort off the ground.

Speaker 1:

So definitely looking forward to doing it, and that sounds really good, like having that one-on-one support when you're writing something and to have somebody to be able to review it and say, hey, this is good. Or come back to you and say, hey, you might want to change this up before you turn it in. That's always good to have a second set of eyes, and so, whether you're a seasoned grant writer or you're just coming into the game, it's always good to get that little refresher, because the grant writing landscape changes so much so often, so you just never know what's going on in the grant writing world.

Speaker 1:

So that's awesome, and again guys, all of this is going to be linked in the notes and so you can look in there and click on the links and reach out to Althea. I'll have all of her social media handles on there for you guys and once again, thanks Althea for being here. I appreciate you guys for listening and tuning in this week and until next time, guys, on the Spring Forward podcast. Bye-bye.