The MoneyPot Live: In Conversation with Mark Brant, Chief Payments Officer, NatWest

Join us for an insightful conversation with Mark Brant, Chief Payments Officer at NatWest, as we explore the rapidly evolving payments landscape from Money20/20 Europe in Amsterdam. In this episode, Mark shares his expert perspective on the transformation reshaping how money moves around the world.

Key Discussion Points:

• The complexity of modern payments and why old methods aren't being retired
• Regional innovation: Asia's super apps, Latin America's stablecoins, Europe's fragmented rails
• Digital assets and tokenization in commercial and trade finance
• Open banking, smart data, and AI as the next frontier
• Customer-centric innovation focused on solving real problems
• Balancing rapid tech advancement with regulatory requirements

Mark emphasizes that while technology evolves rapidly, successful adoption requires collaboration across banks, central banks, and payment networks. He provides a realistic view of the five-year horizon, noting that distribution and customer habituation of new payment methods takes time, even as the underlying technology advances at pace.

NatWest: https://www.natwest.com/

Follow Mark: https://www.linkedin.com/in/markbrant/

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:06

Hello everyone. Welcome to MoneyPath, the Money 2020 podcast where we get under the skin of the people, ideas, and innovations reshaping the future of money. I'm Virginia Pereira Alvarez, content manager for the US at Money2020. And today we are coming to you live from the heart of Money 2020 Europe in Amsterdam, where the industry is meeting, debating, deal making, and deciding what comes next. Today with me is Mark Brandt, Chief Payments Officer at NATWES, to explore how banks should respond to the next phase of payments, transformation from the role of digital access to the innovation beyond the headlines. Welcome to MoneyPot, Mark.

SPEAKER_01 0:55

Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_00 0:56

So we want to start with this topic. This is a fascinating topic, payments and all the changes that are happening in the industry. So I'm going to start with, you know, knowing a little bit of background of what the industry is seeing today. So payments is one of those areas where everyone agrees change is accelerating, but not always on the what kind of change matter must. From where you see that NatWest, what are the biggest shifts actually reshaping payments today?

SPEAKER_01 1:27

I said payments is a giant Venn diagram. There are so many different forms of payments that have evolved over the years. So whilst we're busy creating new forms of payment, we're also not sunsetting old forms of payment. So not just at NatWest in the UK, but all over the globe, you've still got cash and you still have checks and many other ways of paying as well. So but there's there's new change that's something that's putting being put on top of that. Uh most the the topic that's being most talked about today would be digital assets and tokenization and how that can be applied to payments.

SPEAKER_00 2:00

Right. So do you see more payments, rails, and new structures replacing the current way, the way that we are moving money to make it a lot of people.

SPEAKER_01 2:14

I think because of the way that because of the way that payments are embedded around the world, it's very difficult to sunset an existing form of payment. So what we'll continue to see is increased complication, you know, and we're and the need for increased interoperability as well. Because the you know payments is a network business. Payments need to flow both within banks, between banks and one country, and between banks across the globe. So that interoperability is really required to make a new method of payment take off. But so there will be there'll be more complexity before there is less complexity. Yeah, and I think it's fair to say that um certainly during my lifetime, it will be hard to see the end of checks around the world and the end of cash around the world. But there will certainly be the introduction of new payment methods, as I said earlier, probably based upon the principles of tokenization, digital assets.

SPEAKER_00 3:04

Interesting. Um exactly what you just said that it's going to be more complicated before it gets easier, right, for everybody. But let's talk about customers, right? So a lot of payments conversations focus on consumers, but businesses are also dealing with company complexity, cost, fraud, reconciliation, challenges. Want to incorporate an SME customer needs mask from the next generation of payments.

SPEAKER_01 3:30

I'm glad you brought it back to the customer. That's really important for me. Anything we're trying to improve in payments needs to be rooted in a customer problem. Um, and in different parts of the world, payments work better than other parts of the world. The UK is a very mature payments market. Um, so certainly if you went out on the street and asked customers, you know, a normal retail customer, what would they like to see improved, they'd probably say not much. You know, I'm able to pay for my coffee when I when I want to pay for my coffee, and it's quite quick and simple. From a um you know a business perspective, I'm sure you'll hear customers say that they'd like things to be cheaper and like things to be quicker. Um and so as we look at new ways of um new ways of implementing payment payment methods, you know you have to bear that in mind. You know, people always want things cheaper, want things quicker, want things to be more transparent, want payments to be um initially be able to initiate them in different places, not just go to your banking app. You want them to be embedded in the uh the applications you're using on a day-to-day basis. So I think they're the kind of things which commercial customers would be looking for.

SPEAKER_00 4:33

Absolutely. I mean, I agree with you having everything access 24-7 or also cheaper transactions. I I think that's the minimum, right? For customers. So, but let's continue with customers because I think I think that there's a big topic. So digital assets get a huge amount of attention. But if we look beyond the headlines, what other areas of payments innovation do you think deserve more focus?

SPEAKER_01 4:59

Where do we need more focus? Uh, I think there's a lot of different payment topics open at the moment around around the world. One of them is open banking. Yeah, and it's not just about open payments, but open data and smart data, and how you apply that to improve customer experiences. And then clearly the other the other topic, as I've said earlier, is around digital assets and tokenization and how do you apply that not just to payments, but to the commerce journeys that or the finance journeys that are associated with that payment. I think they're the they're the two hot topics which are which are open at the moment. Um, and clearly there'll be you know underlying topics around infrastructure, um, you know, both at a national level and a global level, um, because uh from a customer perspective, they just want payments to happen safely and securely on time when they initiate them. Um but behind the scenes there is a a lot of infrastructure, and so there are always constant initiatives to make sure that that infrastructure, both at a bank level and at a national level, is is safe, secure, uh, and modern, uh, and easy to uh easy to iterate on.

SPEAKER_00 6:04

Excellent. You I mean, I I think it's important to talk about here about regulations, right? Like that's that's something that um is is is is everywhere in the conversation. So payments are increasingly shaping the regulatory pressure as much as customers' demand. How do you see regulation acting as both as a constraint and catalyst for innovation?

SPEAKER_01 6:30

I think innovation in payments is is really important. And I think we've seen kind of you know arguably 50 years of innovation in payments, um, and that and that should continue. Um it's impossible for you to innovate within the existing regulatory regulatory guidelines. So you always have to be kind of pushing at the regulatory boundaries. But you have to do that in a respectful way and recognize that at some point you you'll be shaping regulation. Um so I think at the moment we're at an interesting point. Again, if you take digital assets and tokenization, this is stuff which regulation hasn't been written for. So we're we're playing catch-up because it's moving at such a pace. Similar thing goes for AI as well. Uh so when technology moves at a rapid pace, you have to um be thoughtful about how do you get the regulation to catch up with it. Um, because ultimately you know, payments need to be safe and secure. Um, every country will have slightly different approaches to regulation. Um, that's inevitable. Um, so you'll see some countries moving faster than others, uh, and you'll see some countries learning from others. Um so over time, I think we'll see you know the appropriate level of harmonization and the appropriate level of focus on on the customer and the different types of customer the regulation needs to protect.

SPEAKER_00 7:44

Now that you mentioned the countries and the regions, let's talk about UK and Europe. Both have a strong payments ecosystem, but fragmentation across rails, across wallets, across many, many regulatory systems too, right? What needs to happen for payments innovation to scale more effectively here in the region?

SPEAKER_01 8:04

I think the UK is a very diverse set of countries, uh, and both all have got their own kind of legacy payment rails and approaches to payment rails. Some are heavily entrenched in the in the card schemes. Others are more from an account-to-account perspective, including in the Netherlands where we're where we're sat today. Um I think the uh over time, you know, the um you know customers that do travel cross-border or pay cross-border have found ways of doing that, you know, heavily by the card schemes. I think we're now entering a period where we're actually looking at how do we make account-to-account rails interoperable cross-border. So there's more harmonization of that across Europe, and there are various initiatives there. And of course, you layer on top of that you know the approach to digital assets, tokenization, uh, and the the need for that to be interoperable. Um, so there are various initiatives there that are are looking at how to create um create schemes or rails that are um that operate seamlessly across Europe, not just in one country. But at the heart of it, you the Europe does have lots of different legacy payment systems, uh which are uh you know predominantly domestic uh and heavily habituated by their customers.

SPEAKER_00 9:17

It is a very complex ecosystem here in Europe too. Um if we're talking about um the future, what do you see happening in five years from now? Like, do you see do you feel payments will be more um unified? One single rails for payments, or how do you see this the ecosystem evolving in five years?

SPEAKER_01 9:43

I think the speed at which things are evolving at the moment, uh, five years is a very short time frame. Um, so you we it's very difficult to predict. Um what I do know is that payments is a network business uh and it requires lots of institutions to work together. Um and so whilst there is innovation that's happening at pace, the distribution of that innovation and the habituation of the innovation by the end customer, be it a commercial customer or be it a retail customer, it requires the cooperation, the collaboration between banks, both your commercial banks and central banks. That takes time. Um, and so I think the technology will move here very, very quickly. Um, but the um the actual ability to distribute and habituate that technology will take longer. Um, as I said, in many countries, customers are very happy with the types of payments they have. Um, but those the successful uh players with those that that apply the new technology to solve customer pain points, you know, to solve customer pain points in particular types of journeys. I don't think anyone at the moment is asking for a quicker way to pay for a cup of coffee. Um, but there may be opportunities, particularly in in with commercial banks, you know, in the back office to look at things about how to improve trade finance journeys, for example, um, where tokenization and digital asset technology can be applied to that, to both the process and to the associated payment.

SPEAKER_00 11:12

That's that's fascinating. And and so along the things that will change in the next five years, and looking at the ecosystem, what is the area that you think that will evolve faster?

SPEAKER_01 11:28

I think the one I'm kind of most interested in, aside from the uh tokenization digital assets area, is around open open finance, open data, smart data. Um, I think that's a particularly interesting area. Um, and there is increased focus on that both in the UK, in Europe, and in the in the US as well. Again, it will evolve at different speeds, but I think it's it you combine that with AI when people's data and businesses' data is is more easily available, uh, when you can plug that into AI, I think you've got a very, very interesting set of potential changes to uh the financial services world.

SPEAKER_00 12:07

Absolutely. So you mentioned the regions, you mentioned US, you mentioned UK and Europe, and also what about Asia and Latin America?

SPEAKER_01 12:17

Yeah, Asia is particularly interesting. It's um it's got a lot of account to account payment solutions that have emerged over the years with Alipay um and in India UPI. They've all come at it from slightly different perspectives and slightly different starting places. Um the card schemes weren't heavily embedded in those regions, so account to account payments are taken over um and have gains rapid adapt adoption, you're rapidly displacing cash. Um they've also seen payments uh merged into super apps that aren't just payment apps. They've got lots of other journeys within them, so you can buy your groceries, book your book your taxi, etc. Um, so I think Asia is in a is in a particularly interesting place um and arguably far more exciting than uh than Europe is. I think Latin America, you know, there are certain corridors there. There's you know a fair amount of disruption and upheaval, you know, where a degree of financial certainty is useful, and therefore things such as stablecoin and settlement in stablecoin becomes quite interesting if you are operating in some of those Latan corridors.

SPEAKER_00 13:25

Yeah. Absolutely. Well, specifically about NetWest, what is the project that have you more excited about? What is new? What is coming? Give us that hint today.

SPEAKER_01 13:38

We're a broad bank with a broad set of um of customers, you know, both retail, small business with the largest mid-market bank in the UK as well, and and high-end um commercial customers too. So as a result, when you've got such a broad base of customers, you you have to be looking at innovation across the piste. Um, you know, we partner closely with the card schemes to make sure that our card propositions are strong. We make a lot of investment into our mobile apps to make sure those experiences are there so our customers can you know can set the controls and benefit from the various features of their um different types of payment. Um and then we're actively looking at um new initiatives. We've been a long-term supporter of open banking, open finance and open data. There's a lot of stuff going on in those areas. Um, we've been, I think, one of the banks that has led from that perspective. And we're actively involved in the national payment vision for the UK as well. Um, as I said, payments is a network business. You can't just do it on your own. Uh, so we work in collaboration with uh a number of banks with a number of initiatives, um, both in the open banking world and in the digital asset world as well. So um there's a lot of stuff going on. There's never a dull day. Uh, and as I said, not only do we have to think about new and emerging forms of payment or evolving forms of payment, we uh have a responsibility to make sure that we remain inclusive and we support the sustainability of things such as cash and the the sympathetic approach to um to checks, which is still an important part of many people's lives.

SPEAKER_00 15:08

Yeah, absolutely. I love the fact that you start your answers by just putting the customer at the center, which every company should have that.

SPEAKER_01 15:16

Indeed.

SPEAKER_00 15:17

Yes. Um, Mark, we're getting to the end. Anything else that you want to put out, like for everybody to understand about NatWest?

SPEAKER_01 15:25

No, I think NatWest is a well-known, well-known brand. I said we're a we're a large organization. We've got lots of a diverse set, a very large, diverse set of customers. Yeah, that makes for an incredibly interesting place to work. Um, and we've got um diverse set of employees as well. Uh and as the different forms of payment emerge, you know, we continue to develop that talent. So there's plenty of the NatWest team at Money2020 today. I know they'll be out there amongst the standards trying to understand what the new technology is, who should we be partnering with, what things we'll be thinking about for the future to make sure the way that we approach our our our journey with customers is um is both um uh inclusive, respectful, but also innovative.

SPEAKER_00 16:07

Mark, thank you so much for being with us today at MoneyPod at money2020amsterdam. Um and for the audience, thank you also for joining us at Moneypod Money2020 in Amsterdam as well. And if you want to find out more about our podcast, please uh check our website money2020.com.