The MoneyPot Live: In Conversation with CROs Phoebe Wallis (Griffin) & Meryem Habibi (Bitpace)

Join us for The MoneyPot Live from Money20/20 Europe, where three Chief Revenue Officers discuss the evolving role of revenue leadership in fintech.

Money20/20 host Stephen Slattery speaks with Phoebe Wallis (Griffin Bank) and Meryem Habibi (Bitpace) about what it means to be a CRO today.

Key Topics:

The Modern CRO Role

• Why CROs are "growth architects" coordinating across all business functions
• How the role extends beyond sales to customer success and strategic alignment

Navigating Challenges

• Balancing revenue growth with profitability
• Adapting to evolving regulations in crypto and embedded banking
• The critical need for strategic flexibility

Building Teams

• Essential traits: curiosity, resilience, and problem-solving ability
• Why understanding customer pain points trumps product expertise

AI in Sales

• How AI empowers teams without replacing human connection
• Practical tools for prospecting, coaching, and risk management

Advice for Leaders

• Why CROs must be involved in strategy, not just execution
• The importance of trust between founders and revenue leaders

Essential listening for founders, revenue leaders, and anyone interested in fintech sales transformation.

Griffin Bank: https://griffin.com/

Follow Phoebe: https://www.linkedin.com/in/phoebe-wallis-6758a0a4/

Bitpace: https://www.bitpace.com/

Follow Meryem: https://www.linkedin.com/in/meryem-habibi/

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Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:05

Welcome to the Money Pot, the Money 2020 podcast, where we get under the skin of people, ideas, and innovations reshaping the future of money. I'm Stephen Slatry, the Chief Revenue Officer at Money2020, and today we're coming to you live from the heart of Money 2020 Europe in Amsterdam. And this week we've been seeing the industry come together to generate ideas, innovations, and find best practices of how we continue to grow our companies. Today it's a great pleasure to welcome Phoebe Wallace, the CRO of Griffin Bank, and Merriam Habibi, the CRO of BitSpace. And of most of most pride, I guess, is that this is the first ever Money Pot podcast where it's been dominated by three CROs. So this is a privileged position, guys. So we here we are. So in the spirit of what that means, it'd be great to hear from both of you around what the CRO role is in your eyes, in your capacity, in your companies. Mariam, do you want to get you wanna go?

SPEAKER_00 1:07

Sure, I can start. Um okay, so let's say it this way. For me, CRO is really um growth architect, really, in in a sense where it we need to align multiple uh roles and coordinate with the different uh I would say teams because the revenue comes at the end of the value chain. And everything behind or from the beginning of the value chain, may this be HR hiring the right profile, compliance approving the clients, financial operations making sure that the transactions are happening. If this is not aligned, the revenue does is not is not happening. And the chief revenue officer is yes responsible for their directives, sales, marketing, partnerships, market expansions, but they are as well responsible for the good functioning with every single entity in the in the company to make it work and go smoothly to make a perfect customer to deliver a perfect customer experience.

SPEAKER_02 2:16

I I I love the I love the phrase uh growth architect. And actually, when you when you think about a chief revenue officer, it's easy to assume that it's all about sales, but actually the nature of selling and servicing clients and winning business is is evolving. Growth architect is a is a is a fantastic description.

SPEAKER_00 2:36

Exactly, because I I think if it's just about sales, we have other functions, customer sales officer, sometimes customer commercial officer as well. But I think that the chief revenue officer scope is a bit wider. Sales, yes, drive the revenue, but everything else around it needs to work properly for the sales to deliver the revenue. So we are not working just on the on targets and achieving the revenue or the top line. We make sure that the bottom line is aligned as well and the profit fitability comes as a result to the actions that we are doing.

SPEAKER_02 3:11

Right. And and Phoebe, from your perspective uh to a Griffin Bank, the the CRO role, what does that mean to you and to your organization?

SPEAKER_03 3:21

Yeah, I think um when you think about any any tech company, in my mind, the spine is your people and product function. And then you have people, you have a great product, and you've got someone that's actually got a complete out-return on the investment. Um not just invest investment, but people's lives have been funneled into building something that they're proud of. Uh so it comes with a lot of responsibility, which is fun. Um, but it's a very, very wide role. And I think it's a bit of a bit of a misconception to kind of just focus it on sales. Sales is the first step. There's obviously demand generation, which also sits under me, but like that, that is the very first step for us to be a sustainable long-term business that genuinely adds value to our customers and to the wider economy as a bank, which is, you know, quite terrifying. Uh, we need to make sure that we delight our customers and they continue to get value and those products work. And so you have to invest a huge amount in post-sales and ensuring that we have a customer success function, a support function. It's heavily loaded into our products and our product development. And then obviously there's the revenue operation side of it. And I spend a huge amount of time with our head of FPA. That's a big, big part of my job. Because yes, we've got customers, you've got customers on board, but you actually need to push that into something that is repeatable, sustainable, and is years of growth, not just the sign someone and it's really exciting.

SPEAKER_02 4:47

It it exactly interesting. We we just ran a round table of CROs. So there were around 15 CROs from across the ecosystem here at Money 2020, and the theme of uh revenue growth versus profitability and how those two things coexist. And actually the response from the room was more they they they coexist, but they they have to coexist and it will ebb and flow where one is more of a priority at any given time. But the common thread is also the pressure that comes with uh with with either either dimension of that uh of that particular piece. So as the as we as we manage the the I guess the pressure in these types of roles, how does that impact your your priorities? And it'd be interesting to hear from you um, given the scope of your roles and the the rapid evolution of the industry, of your customers, of the technology, how is that shaping your priorities for the second half of this year? And as you think about 2027, are you feeling there's new priorities coming coming to the forefront?

SPEAKER_03 5:52

I think um I I also spend a lot of my time fundraising. So I spend a lot of time thinking about the next year, two years, five years, and what what the priorities are. But um I obviously have a forecast that I need to hit for the end of this year, and that guides my priorities and it guides the decisions I make. But I think what I I started the year with a very clear target of X million and ARR. And my entire year of my prioritization is around how I get there. Is it people? Is it product? Is it changing the way we deliver? And I think the greatest asset you can have as a revenue function is flexibility. I'm a strong opinions, loosely held kind of person. Yeah. And I think that you need to be willing to admit that sometimes you're wrong and you've made the wrong call and be prepared to recover from it quickly. Um, so my priority is to be going to the end of this year. We've had a good first half of the year. We've got lofty ambitions as we move into next year. And I want to make sure that as we move into 2027, in a really exciting time for finance and fintech, because some of the businesses I've met here this week are very, very nascent, but technology is moving so fast that if we think about a gentic payments or something of the like, whilst they've got the tech now and ambition, by January 27th, that will be in market and we need to be ready and prepared to serve them. And so I think a lot of the second half of my year is going to be looking at the new technology that's incoming, how Griffin fits into that, how we can make sure that there is the brand awareness and that we're open and ready while still servicing the rest of our customer base and not being caught out by the world moving quickly.

SPEAKER_02 7:42

Yeah, that the the uh I I I love the the thing of the the right personality type and not being so hell-bent on you have to be right all the time because actually there is it's imp it would be impossible to accommodate everyone and everything and and and make progress if you were fighting everything along the way. It would be impossible, right?

SPEAKER_00 8:02

I think in this in this industry, right? I mean I learned that earlier, but in more stable industries already, you you learn that the cost of not making a decision can be even higher than making the wrong decision. But in the fintech industry right now, and I'm talking again about the crypto industry, that like whatever is the right decision today may be the wrong decision tomorrow. Yeah. And trust me, we've seen that we were just with Phoebe, we've just before getting to this podcast, we were talking about all these changes that are happening. This is in Mika regulations. Every day we get news. Once it covers all the crypto, then all of a sudden it doesn't cover stable coins, and and then you need to keep changing your game plan according to how the regulator is evolving. Because the regulator is also discovering things in this. In I'm talking here about the crypto industry. Every single regulator has a different view. And while more or less we we see like in trade fire, it's quite getting into a standardized model. Crypto, I mean, the regulator in Ghana has different concerns than the regulator in Europe, and that have completely different uh priorities or I will say challenges than the regulator in Brazil. And when you are a global operator and you need to operate in these markets, whatever is your strategy in Europe, it cannot work for Brazil or for Ghana or Nigeria. So you need to adapt your game plan as you go through the process. And I think that this is where I I again I talk about the growth architect and also the the number one problem solver person in the company. Because yes, we are not the ones talking to the regulators, we have teams, we have other people that are frontline, but you you need to give them the feedback from your client from a chief revenue like officer perspective, how every change is impacting the revenue, and we need to play around and review our strategy accordingly.

SPEAKER_02 10:04

Yeah, uh yeah, the the yeah, that the nim the nimbleness to do so. And actually, from the from the round table earlier, the the relationships with the regulators, both uh and the education, that they understand your business and your objectives, and the the patience to build trust and to build momentum with them, as we heard from from the the team at Thunes there, it was uh I think a common thread across across all parts of the ecosystem. Interestingly, uh uh in Money 2020 in Asia in April and and here this week, we've had over a hundred regulators in the show, and that's on years of uh requested demand from the audience to build that bridge so it can activate your your your growth. Um we talked about the the flex of the flexibility being a tremendous trait in your leadership roles. Uh, as you as you look at hiring and finding the right talent in the marketplace, what are some of the key attributes you look for in talent to build your teams in an ever more complex um world of uh of pressure of revenue generation? What are you what are you looking for in the in the people out there that that may want to come and work for you?

SPEAKER_00 11:17

Well, I think for for us at least, I'm again talking from a crypto uh business perspective, a lot of people think that we are looking for someone that has experience in crypto. But what we should understand is that experience in crypto for most of the people doesn't exceed like the the the best ones have been in the industry for the last 10 years, maybe. So um I don't think that yes, it's always good to have someone that, and even if they don't have an experience in crypto, they are curious and seriously interested in the crypto, understanding what is around it, what is a blockchain, what is a network, what what is a wallet, what is a custodial wallet, what is a cold wallet, what is a hot wallet, like normal basic things that can come out of a genuine interest in the industry. And then for me, the most important criteria is their ability to manage a no. Because they will be hearing a no in any single function, at least in the revenue team. Either if you go to a bank to look for a bank account, they will hear a no. If they go to a client, no, I'm not interested in crypto. So there will always be a no.

SPEAKER_02 12:25

Yeah, but the the res the resilience to manage through that and still believe in the believe in your mission and proposition is how do how do they handle the no?

SPEAKER_00 12:35

Yeah, and my in my interview process, most of my questions or in case study is scenarios on handling the objection. Yeah, I think that's what makes at least members in the revenue team successful, in in my opinion. I mean, that's how I say.

SPEAKER_02 12:51

And it's interesting because actually when you're hiring the scenario approach, particularly where you you I think it's really important you do use the thing that people hear the most in the market and see how they respond to it, it gives you the real-time check, which is good. And and and Phoebe, from your side, we had a uh an interesting chat on your on your on your stand when we when we were when we were meeting for the first time.

SPEAKER_03 13:13

But this would be great to hear your views on that and say I'm not completely uninspired, but it's curiosity. Uh, when we're hiring a griffin and we're hiring in sales, um selling selling bank a bank and infrastructure probably isn't the most exciting thing to sell, but to certain profiles, um it is a really, really interesting and fun job. And my team come from a variety of backgrounds, but the most important thing is that they are curious because what we're effectively doing is we're working with businesses that need some sort of accounts, payments, banking relationships, cards. They may already have it, they may not have it at all. And so you've got to try and lift something that's quite dry and can be very expensive and can be very clunky. And you're either replacing what they've got with something better, or you're trying to say to them, like, hey, we know you're a global mobility firm, but give all of your drivers bank accounts and run a card program. It's not an easy sell, but if you are curious and you get excited and you're really interested in their business and what you're doing, it becomes a lot easier. And selling embedded banking, embedded finance, platform banking is never going to be script selling. Um, my team, unfortunately, do need to be experts in regulation. They need to be able to defend why we have certain governance processes in place, why customers need to do what they need to do. But then also, outside of sales, I have a customer success team that have to field weird and wonderful requests because we've got a customer set up to do X and now they want to do Y. And you've got to try and threat it all together. So you they have to want to learn, they have to want to be curious, and they've got to be vaguely interested in banking, unfortunately.

SPEAKER_00 14:57

It's not the most sexy thing to sell.

SPEAKER_02 15:00

It depends, it depends who you're talking to, Baron.

SPEAKER_00 15:02

That's the uh Well, I'm gonna tell you. I mean, uh if you get a salesperson to sell a Rosalie Royce and you ask them to sell a bank account, uh, I mean, the arguments are lacking from one side.

SPEAKER_02 15:13

But it's I I think I think that the and and it's the interesting adage around selling is like, are you selling the thing or are you selling the outcome that it creates and the advantage that it that it delivers to people and seeing the the kind of the output? But that's where curiosity is important to get to be able to get to unlock that.

SPEAKER_00 15:32

You know, I always advise to my team, don't go with the approach of selling. You are not selling, you are solving a problem.

SPEAKER_01 15:38

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:39

Okay, and a lot of people think that sales is making the like making all the chat, making all the pitch. It's not what I recommend to all, like this is part of my onboarding to my sales team. Guys, I don't expect you to go and just deliver a full demo that you would be an expert in the review in the demo. I want you to hear the client, to listen properly to what they have, understand their pain point, understand what keeps them awake at night. And you reorganize your demo and your pitch according to exactly the pain points that they are they they have. Because otherwise, I can sell to you a building, but at the end of the day, say I don't like to be to live in a building, I have my own villa. Makes no sense.

SPEAKER_02 16:26

Isn't it uh maybe to to to be provocative a little bit here around like AI, because that's a you know, the what you've both described there is is uh is like the day-to-day lives of salespeople. You have to understand, unlock opportunity, build relationship, establish trust, put pitch your products, pitch your value propositions, and on and on and on. But as we're seeing, the the high frequency of AI-driven tools that can shorten all of those components of the sales process is the is the is the is the challenge to how how do uh revenue generators use those tools to be spend more time with clients, or is it how do we re replace old-fashioned sales skills with new technology, or is it, and you're both wincing for those that can't see, which is music to my ears, but interesting to get your your take?

SPEAKER_03 17:19

Um I think AI is really, really powerful. I explained this in the round table earlier. Griffin is a bank, whereas a lot of we're under a lot of scrutiny, and how we use and deploy AI towards our customers is something that we have to be exceptionally careful about. Um, I don't think I run uh a kind of traditional old school boilerum type sales team. Um, to come back to Miram's earlier point, one thing I parrot to my team a lot of the time is we sell painkillers, not vitamins, uh, because I'm very cheesy. And I think when you're when you're thinking about AI and the sales process, um my ICP are not going to respond to agentic SDRs. It's it's not gonna happen. They're not going to respond to outbound emails that are a little bit sloppy. Um, but where we can make huge gains and where I am seeing efficiency is using tools like Clay to take the FCA register, the API integration, give me my list of everyone who's got CAS permissions, EMIPIs, then go and benchmark it against who's just raised the series B. There's my outbound list done. Uh, we use Fathom Call recordings with their integration into HubSpot. I have, I can see exactly what my team have done, what they've potentially promised, underpromise. I get a good view of, you know, if someone's out and we're at contracting stages and I get told, well, X agreed this, at least I have a full record of it. And it makes it makes my life a lot easier. You but part of being a chief revenue officer is you own revenue risk and you also own a huge amount of conduct and people risk. And so AI tools are really, really helpful in that. And they empower my team, they help me defend my team.

SPEAKER_02 19:10

Um and and to help you train your team as well to get to that best practice to whether the personnel risk are using it for that.

SPEAKER_03 19:16

And that is also the beauty of Fathom. It coaches them, it tells them when they're monologuing, it tells them when they're not listening, um, but it also helps them build like a very solid approach to how they should sell, how they should document, um, and how responsible they are for the journey. Um in life, we've looked at tools like plain uh for kind of initial customer support queries and triaging. There's a huge amount AI can do. And I am being sold lots and lots of Revox AI tools. Um, but there's some really like there's very, very useful tools that we're using at the moment, which means that the way that we're selling isn't effectively managing our risk and um is empowering my team to move a little bit quicker, but it isn't replacing them. And I'm not saying only humans can make sales because I would love to never use my phone to ring someone again to buy something and like agentic payments come at me, although I don't think my bank balance would be very happy. Um, but I think there is a balance of giving people really powerful tools, which means they can do more, they can be more present. Um, but I don't think I would have uh a full agentic sales team anytime.

SPEAKER_00 20:31

No, I I I thought I I'm the same. I think that AI will help sales, let's say, support them, do their job better. Correct, yes, improving it. Like in the past, uh again, sales a lot of people think that sales is talent. It's not, it's a lot of hard work, it's a lot of preparation. And you know, when a lot of people say no, it's just a lack, no, luck is when opportunity needs preparation. And before if you want to close a deal, you need to prepare it properly. Yes. Before that, it used to take a lot of time. You need to go to do your own research on the company to get like a hundred pages in Google to understand what the companies are. Today, AI can give you a whole, let's say, uh summary about what the company does, what are their licenses, where if they are licensed or not, if they are if the solution is needs yours, needs our solutions or not. So you are already prepared. So when you talk to your client, you don't ask them like stupid questions that you can find in the internet, but you ask them actually the right questions because you already know what you need to know, what is publicly available.

SPEAKER_02 21:41

Correct. It's it it it it blows my mind in my in my first ever sales role in the late 90s when I worked for Reuters. There was no internet, there was no outbound email, you had a phone, a fax machine, and and a real time data terminal, which was like ahead of its ahead of its time. So there, but still found a way. But the the the tools today, I agree, in the right in the right hands with the right guidance could help create not just uh a more successful sales um outcome but also better customer experience which I think for both of you is uh is critical um in in in in as we as we wrap up I I just wanted to pose each of you a question um ready to get your advice as as CROs here either and maybe you can choose kind of which way you want to go either to a founder or a CEO who's thinking should I bring in a CRO role to my business what advice would you give them or if there are people in in the in the in the in the show this week who are thinking I think I could do this sales thing here what advice would you give them so a a a nugget of advice for for our listeners out there okay so fr from my perspective I think that founders or CEOs if they want to bring a CRO into their business I think they need to be ready to listen to that.

SPEAKER_00 23:05

Because it's very important a lot of people think that they are bringing a CRO to be part of an executive team where they will be executing the strategy. The CRO is here to help build the strategy because if they are not part of the building they will not be able to deliver it. And sometimes the CRO has insights that from the market from the clients that maybe the CEO or the founder do not have. Again they I'm I'm sure they have a lot of knowledge from other aspects but the direct insights that come from the market comes from like even for me as a CRO I'm I don't know as much as my sales team because again yes I talk to clients but I'm not talking to them as frequently as my sales team do and not as frequently as my CSM or account management team does. So it's important to hear so CROs need to listen hear from the market communicate to the founder of the CR this and the CEO and I think the founder needs to listen carefully to what they are saying and involve the CROs as being part of the strategy definition and not execution. I think that's in my opinion.

SPEAKER_03 24:21

Perfect good good solid solid advice and Phoebe a final final word from from you um I think if I was I'm talking to a founder or a CEO your view of your product and the thing that you've built is your baby and trusting someone to take that and release it out into the world is very very scary but you have to be willing to step back and let someone do that because building something versus commercializing it is it's two hugely hugely different processes. And as much as you want to keep the culture and the ethos and the very heart of the product you've developed as a founder and CEO, the way that that translates to market might be different. And it's good to let someone else go through that process.

SPEAKER_02 25:10

Trust your trust input to to to do the right thing to drive growth. No and I I don't think that Sierros and uh founders would agree all the time but this is what makes makes it a healthy relationship because if you get someone that will agree with whatever you say, you don't need him actually correct correct and I think that's that's part of teamwork right being part of a constructive team you have to be able to debate but I think the seat at the table part of the strategy and trust to evolve the the the the vision and and nurture and look after the the product or service that's been built absolutely good. Well Mariam Phoebe thank you so much for for for joining us and spending the time both at the round table and and them on the money pot today um wishing you a very successful end to the show and transit home. Thank you very much. Thank you thanks for having us and for everybody else thank you so much for listening you can find more information at moneyt2020.com or through our social media sites we'd love to hear from you thank you