In the Heart of Being

Inner Voice, by whom will you be led?

November 01, 2023 Nathalie Nevali
In the Heart of Being
Inner Voice, by whom will you be led?
Show Notes Transcript

This little voice inside that always guides us in our lives. Letting us know, which road to follow. Which path to take. Do you listen to this voice or do you validate the voices of others as more true then your own? From the moment we become aware of the world around us, others tell us what to do and how to behave, for they know. At least this is what they tell us.

Imagine who we can become if we all start listening to our own inner voice. Where would we go as society? What would we be as humans?  We would, overcome our belittleness. We would grow beyond something we don't understand yet. However, deep down inside we all know.

Do you hear the calling of your inner voice?

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Nathalie
So, welcome. Today, me and Disha are going to talk about listening to our self. Disha is one of the listeners, and after every episode, she always has a lot of questions. So, I thought perhaps I should invite her. Then she can ask the questions instantly. And so I did. So, Disha, welcome.

Disha
Thank you for having me.

Nathalie
You're welcome. Today. We're going to talk about our own inner voice. When in our lives something happens, we always ask guidance of someone else. And we forget that we are very wise inside ourselves. Everything that we need to know, we can find in, inside our own heart.

But most of the times, we listen more to other people than we do to ourselves. And when we do, a lot of things can go very wrong. So I had like this thing happening to me, I went for a certain healing and don't have to go into details, . And after that, I felt awful.

It sometimes happens. But the lesson of this all was that I didn't listen to myself because when I was going up there, I thought, no. But I already made the appointment. So I went and I thought, yeah, but they're very wise people and they still are. But sometimes you think that you need it and actually, you don't.

We believe that we can grow, but I found out that actually I fell and I fell hard and deep and I had to crawl up again. 

Disha
I have a question. How do we make a distinction between your inner voice, which is your true voice, and your fear voice, which is the voice of your ego? 

Nathalie
The inner voice is always like someone giving you a gift. It comes out of So you're just walking down the street and suddenly things come up. And in a way it also needs quietness. The ego likes to blab. It's the one that makes you jump from one thing to another. And you know, when it comes from the true self, there's always joy in it.

There's always excitement in it. But when it comes from the ego, there's always, how do you say that that smallness in a way. So it has always, we call it in Dutch, haken en ogen, so it means it has always, it clings on to something, you know? It is, how can I explain that? 

Disha: 
Would it be like, if you do this, then this would happen?

Nathalie|
Yeah, it's a conversation . And with the true self, the higher self, it's just a giving. It just pops up and it has not a process. So normally I tell people the difference is when something comes to mind, the one that is from the true self is instantly there and the one that is from the ego or the mind builds.

You get one block and another block and another block, but the insights from your higher self, they show you the picture instantly. It's like a, like a lightning. It just hits you. And the more you notice it, the more surprised you are, and you think, where did that come from? So your higher self is like, hello, hello, this was me.

This was me. And your ego is like, it's like, yeah, well, you should not listen to that. Because you know, where does this come from? So you got this, this weighing, this conversation between them. Well, actually, it's the ego talking to the higher self, but the higher self never responds. Never. 

Disha
What is the role of conditioning in childhood in developing our sense of inner voice? 

Nathalie:
Until the age of three, children have a very strong inner voice. I think you know of your own, huh? And they know, they really know what they want or not, or what is good for them or not.

They cannot explain it because they're not, they don't have the language yet as we do, but they are very wise and knowledgeable. And then afterwards they go to school, and they come into the world, and you will see, the more they are, in a way, their consciousness, becomes smaller and smaller and smaller.

And they need to be a certain way, and with that, most of the times, they lose the connection to the higher self. Until we get older and we feel that something is off, that in a way we are doing things the way we do, but we feel this is not who I am, this, this is not right. And then it's like you open the door to the higher self.

It has always been there. At times when you take a step back, for example. Then it's just like a flow coming in. 

Disha
The picture that I'm getting in my mind is that the inner self, the inner knowing is always there from the moment we are born. And it's a knowing which is, which does not need to be developed, so to speak. It's just there. But what we do end up doing with conditioning is add layers on top until. There is a moment in time in our lives when we become aware of the layers that we have put on because we are not able to access that inner knowing as easily. 

Nathalie
And then you find out that it is not working for you anymore. And you just open the door and it was never gone. It was always there. It was always there. But yeah, you know if we talk about the conditioning in this world, it is in everything we encounter, in everything we see, consciously. And then we even haven't talked about the unconscious conditioning that goes on every day from the moment you wake up until you go to sleep.

And even then they try to influence you, but that's a whole other topic. In a way, the only way to find yourself out of the conditioning is to question actually almost everything you do, because then there is a break and there is a moment of consciousness. 

But I've been always doing it like this. He said, yeah, but have you ever questioned why? Why are you the things doing the way you are? Say, no I never thought about it. Yeah, well, everyone does it like that. It's true, but should you do it also? Or maybe you should do it differently. But have you ever thought about it? Say, no I never thought about that.

And you know what the interesting thing is? Is when you sometimes say that to people, they get very upset. Because conditioning gives them a sense of belonging. So, in the beginning it's not for everyone. But it's good to see that these behavioral patterns we think we are. did not exist when you came into this world.

Nothing of this was true. So this higher self, this true self of you is the one that entered the body. And after that the world happened. And you start thinking you are a certain person in a certain world, behaving a certain way, believing certain things. But none of this is true. Only if you believe it.

And sometimes then we believe that others know it better than we do. And the more you develop the more harsh the encounters become. Yeah, I didn't know that either. Thank you. I say, because when you develop, first thing you should do is listen to your inner voice and not to the outer world. It's not that you become arrogant, or that you think, I know it better, it's not like that. It's just the connection with yourself becomes stronger. So the insights are more clear. And when they are more clear in a way they are more right.

Because your true selves know your developed self in this life. And the person you go to, some are very gifted. But still they also have their own conditioning. Even if they are very gifted. And they can help you on the way, and sometimes the help is very different than , we think it should be.

So you go to someone because you want to be raised up in the sky, and you found yourself digging in the dirt. So, in the end it can be difficult and painful, but I always believe it puts you back on track. And sometimes in our lives, it's good to, to go to certain people, to learn from them, to listen to them, to develop, and then there comes a time that you take a step back and start listening to yourselves. 

And then, when we do that, then we don't have to search for it anymore, it just comes on our path. But we are conditioned that we need to work on ourselves. We need to change the things. But everything has its moment in life. And when we allow it to be, it will change without us even knowing it. And then after a while we look over our shoulder, most of the times the left one, and we're like, what? . I don't have that anymore. It just left. And that's when you allow yourself to be your true self. It can be very different than, the way other people live their lives. But when you do, you also show them that they can follow the same path. 

Disha
In effect what you're saying is that it takes courage to be yourself. And to follow your path and in the beginning, the path may not be easy. 

Nathalie
The episode before, of one of the episodes before, was the level of ease. And in the level of ease, we talked about the bumpy roads. And I give the example that you see the wave coming and you're like, blub blub blub blub, and you get lost in the water.

Then after a while, you see the wave coming and you take your boat and you're going to row. You know and then, the waves become less, but they're still in our lives, I don't believe if , our consciousness raises to such a high extent that it can change, but for most people it will move, and we, most of them have chosen this life to have this movement, to have these experiences.

We always talk about good and bad, but in a way, it's not good and bad. It's an experience, which we should allow ourselves to feel, and we always leap forward. So, after this experience I had, I lost myself for quite some time and I really missed this, this part of me in a way, I guess, I, could not, I missed the door of the higher self all the time, you know, I tried to open it, could not find it, tried another door, it was, it was not, and then one morning I, I went to my bicycle and there was this grasshopper , and grasshoppers They jump blindly, you know, they just jump.

They're very courageous, actually. And then I saw it, but it was, not jumping yet. It just stayed on my bicycle and then I took it off. And then a couple of days later, I came to my practice and I put down my bicycle, and then there was another one, . and I looked at it and, I put it on my hand and I wanted to, move it to the leaves of a bush, but it jumped because I didn't want to go there.

I wanted to go somewhere else, and it just jumped very far. And then I went to the door , and I did not see it. , I crossed the path of the, the grasshopper again, and then it jumped far away. And then I knew things are about to change. Also the, the animals that show up in our lives show us that something is about to happen. Most people know, like, the butterflies, for example. 

And you can say, like, it's also the higher self tapping in, giving us science in the world. They only, it's not the only thing that they, you have the inner voice that's a way of communicating, but most people , don't listen to it, but they also give us signs on our path.

Disha
This I can attest to. There was a moment in time when I started seeing 11 11. And it just caught my attention one day. And then everywhere I looked and I started paying attention. And the more I paid attention, the more it started to appear. And I didn't understand why I was seeing this.

I just thought it looked beautiful to see that, but I didn't understand the meaning. I can, attest that things start to happen around you.

Nathalie
So first they give you the signs, and then you feel like a shift in energy. But you cannot grasp it yet, you know there's something about to happen, but you cannot get hold of it in a way.

And then it comes. And it can be anything, like I told you, it can be something that we label as very good, or it can be something that we label as very bad. And then we are very surprised. And, the thing is sometimes you feel like you're stuck for months or for years, and we have the feeling that we never get out of it, but then like the signs come, but most of the time we do not pay attention, and then all of a sudden everything turns around, you go, what happened?

I didn't see that coming. We believe that in a way like a grasshopper, we jump, but it's not the way it goes. It's like this little seed in the earth and it waits, you know, we put it in, in the earth here in Holland in October or something, we wait and we're very patient, because we know it takes time and then it becomes like March and you think like, where is it?

Why is it not coming up? It's never going to come anymore. I don't understand. And we wait, and in a way we pray because we want to see the new leaves and stuff like that. And then, when you stop paying attention, and you're looking like, what happened? It's over, it's up. And it has two or three leaves or something, and then we believe that it is in an instant.

But things have their process, and we are so impatient nowadays that we don't allow it to process. And this morning when I closed the door, I saw, this really small snail., I did once, I did an ayahuasca and I was sitting on the porch and I saw this snail crossing at the end of the porch and I thought, Oh my God, it will take a long time to reach the other side.

And then the snail looked up at me and we had a connection and I thought, Oh, it's such a beautiful creature. And then I had my trip and I was just looking at the trees and stuff like that. And then I looked down again and it was all the way at the other end. And this Dutch sentence came to me And I will do it in both in Dutch and in English, he said, in the, in the vertraging zit de beweging, which means in slowing down is the movement.

So we always rush. And when we rush, our inner voice and our higher self cannot reach us. . So sometimes people come to me and they say, I'm not like you. I say, well, perhaps you're not. But you are so busy that there is no time, no way to reach you. They are like throwing at you and you just run, . If it hits you, then it is a miracle.

By connecting to our inner voice, we, sometimes need those times that there is no movement. At least we believe there is no movement. But a lot of things like underneath the soil is happening inside us, in our field of consciousness is opening up 

Disha
what are the everyday practices that people can do to give them that time in the day, in their busy lives with, it's almost like being on a hamster wheel, you jump from one thing to the next, to the next, and without taking a moment for yourself. Are there ways that people can take a moment for themselves, even if it's a few minutes, but they feel very, but they just feel whole? 

Nathalie
A
ctually, we can do it everywhere we are, but we let ourselves be distracted. Every time people sit down, they engage in something, even if they don't have to. But they do. They engage in their phone, or they are looking at the other people, or whatever, , but they're not with themselves. So the thing is for most people, it is very unpleasant to be with the self. That's also why a lot of people do it like that, because then they feel uncomfortable. They feel so naked in a way. And it's not that other people see it like that. it's the feeling you can have inside that you feel naked because there is no fleeing into. It's just you, , do you even like yourself? , can you have this conversations with yourself or do you always need the outside world for your existence?

All those questions rise and that's why most people don't even engage in it. And the foremost it is when they come in nature, then nature pulls them down in a way and makes them higher. It's like, the field is cleansed. And then they get their insights.

The first thing would be , can I be with myself? And even if the answer is no, it's a very beautiful start, because the moment you ask, you were with yourself. So can I be with myself? And sometimes it's easier, and other days you cannot. And it is just to allow yourself that, and to be kind. 

Disha
It's wonderful. And it's true. It's the hardest thing to do. It's easy to, distract yourselves on the phone or magazines or whatever. And but to pay attention, to be with yourself is really hard because at least I found that , the inner voice knows when I am present, and then it asks difficult questions as well, and even though I know the answer, I would need to do something different than what I'm doing now in my day to day life. And when the resistance comes that, do I want to do that? Because it also means changing a lot of other things. 

Nathalie
And , this is also the conditioning, ? That you're used to do it a certain way. And, when you stand still, in a way, you, you become aware of it, and then you see the attachments you have.

Most people always say, yeah, but I really want to change it, and then I think, do you? Because there will be a time that you do not know who you are. And this is part of the process, because the conditioning made you someone. Which you are not. Your parents, society, your friends, the media, everything. The books you read, they also push you in a certain way. They can elevate you, but they push you in a certain way, and, in the beginning, you will not know who you are.

Disha
So you're saying it's to find, to learn to become comfortable with not knowing. 

Nathalie
Yeah. And then the heart opens. And you will be surprised which way you will be led. we're so used to conditioning and to have control, which doesn't even exist at all. We have this idea that we have control in our lives, but there's, no control at all. From one moment to the next, everything can fall apart. Not to scare you, but it does. And sometimes it needs to happen because otherwise you will not move.

Disha
Perhaps you can talk about, reacting to things versus responding to things around us. 

Nathalie
This is survival. Reacting is survival and that has to do with where you were brought up and the way you were brought up. If you have a secure environment, it is most of the times less, but some people come with fear in this world and that has another background.

For reacting, moving to responding, you need to be aware that you react instead, that you have a response and something that happens. Because when you become conscious of that you can respond on something, there is a pause before you do anything. But when you are reactive, it just happens. And afterwards you can think, what happened?

Why did I do it like this? Then a little bit of consciousness comes. And I always say like, you can think of how would I want to respond in a way on situations like this. And when you do, it becomes a possibility. Before you only have the reactivity inside you, but when you start thinking about it, I said, okay, Did I like the outcome of what happened because the way I reacted you say, no, actually not. Why not? And you start trying to understand. And you think about, how would I want it to be in my life?

How would I want to respond? And it's not that you, with everything you do, you have to think about it, but When you stand still and realize what happened and how it would serve you better in responding differently, somewhere in your collective consciousness, your own, because you have a collective consciousness with others, but also with ourselves, yeah, interesting with ourselves, with our guides and stuff like that, it's stored.

And then when something happens, you get the, the possibility to take it out of storage and to use it. Because even that, at that moment, you reacted a certain way, when you thought about it afterwards, and you thought about, I want to respond differently, you already put it in the field.

So, they say, time,  the spirits say, who say? I say, you also say to me that, when we think of it, it is a reality. And even that it happened differently, but you also give it body in the person you are now, so it becomes also in reality.

Disha
The fact that , the thought form is created because we express. The intention that we want to respond differently. So, because that thought form is created, we give it body. 

Nathalie
We give it body. And when, you get , more into in tune of your reactiveness, they say, when you see it more often, when you're more aware of it, and you think about it a little bit more, then it becomes, more dominant in a way. And then the shift comes. Then you will notice that you start responding, or not. You get a choice.

Disha
So that's when we embody it? What is the role of our inner voice in that process?

Nathalie
The inner voice, is like a poke. , something happened and you were like, for example, and the other one is like, Ooh, this is heavy. And then afterwards, you're, well, I ride my bicycle, you're on the bicycle or in the car, I don't know where, at home, and then the inner voice says what happened? And you think, what happened? I was kind of harsh. Why did I respond like that? So it's the one that actually pokes you. Says, maybe you should think about this. , And then you do. 

Disha
Interesting. 

Nathalie
And also, creates the circumstances in a way. Because our inner self always wants to evolve, always wants to grow. And if on doing the same things, we never grow. we just walking around in circles, day after day, year after year, life after life, you know. So then the inner voice is connected to the higher self. The higher self said, okay, it's time for some movement. It's time for some change. And then, a lot of things can happen .

This is our true guidance. I always talk about the spirits the guides and the counselors, , and they, in a way, feed our, our higher self, but our higher self is also, something on its own, which has brought on knowledge from all our lives, and All our doings in good and in bad, you know, because we always believe that we grow from being a good person.

But sometimes we also grow from being a bad person. Yeah, not that, not that I'm saying that you should become bad. But just, just to see it, yeah. Because I truly believe in the good. Well, it's not the good. I truly believe in the light, actually. I believe in the light of, or the light, it's a book someone wrote, The Light of the Human Heart.

And that I truly believe in. But the light in the human heart can evolve from good situations and bad situations. For example, Shri Aurobindo, he was an Indian guru and, in his younger years, he went to prison because he was doing things that we would say they are not right. A certain kind of aggression. But when he was in prison, actually his enlightenment came. And he became one of the people in this world that understood, they call it the supramental. It's like the really, the higher, higher, consciousness.

And his task became to, to put it into the world, to give it a voice. So, if we judge someone we meet, at what they are doing in their lives right now, we pin them down, because we don't know, perhaps, this person can become the most, inspiring people you will ever meet in your life. We do not know.

Sometimes, we come into a situation, or forced into a situation, that allows ourselves to grow above it. It's the same with Nelson Mandela. He said, when I would have not been in prison, I would not have been the person I am today. In one of his speeches, this is what he said. So, and, and, you know, they had like, big lives, I call it.

Wwe also have big lives. And even if, we just do our normal routine, everywhere we go with everything we do, we touch upon ourselves and the others around us. And actually, it's, a huge responsibility. It is,

Disha
Like what Gandhi said, be the change you want to see in the world around you? I kind of get an understanding of that now, a little bit. Because, when that inner shift happens, It starts to reflect the, our outer reality to the people that we meet in our environment. And it reflects because we act differently, so, and it brings about a different set of circumstances then. So, yeah, I find that fascinating. 

I was thinking in my time, in my life, like, how do I know if I can trust my inner voice that what it asks me to do is in my highest good? 

Nathalie
With the feeling you have. That's when you know. If you have true fear, It's not right. Even if it is for you, then it's not the moment. But if you feel excitement, it's not scary, but you feel like, ooooh, like that kind of feeling inside of you. It's like this wobbly movement in you. Then you know, or when you start smiling, or when your heart opens up. Or when you feel you expand.

Because this, one thing can come in and then you think, yes! And, you know, and then the mind says, well, I don't know if you should do that, because this and this and this and this, and I said, you always go back to your first response. So, what was the first response, I said, and my first response was, ah, yes, I'm going to do this.

Oh, my God, this is very scary, but I'm going to do this. So it is the first response, sometimes when you don't know, I always say, ask the heart. Because the heart knows. also, if you meet a person in your life and you're standing next to this person and, and you think, should I engage with this person or not, then you can feel it.

'cause your whole body responds and your inner voice can also show it in the way you feel, not only by words, because emotions are also words, but in another frequency, in a way. And we always, we have this sentence, like, in Dutch we say that, that you feel it in your belly, you know, yeah?

And another one, it says, like, I just instantly knew, I don't know why, but I do. I just know and the more you, allow yourself to trust yourself, the stronger it becomes.

Disha
Interesting. 

Nathalie
We've been brought up trusting others. They know. You come to your parents, they tell you what to do, because they know. But they know something, but then they don't know everything. But, they know. And then you go to school. They know. History is a very interesting thing because most things they do not know at all, but they believe they know, they know, just a little bit. And so everywhere you go people tell you, I know how it works.

Disha
Very interesting because our, our society. Is set up to take away our agency from a very young age and not, not in a way that, okay, I'm taking your agency away, but more like, we know better than you. 

Nathalie
But that has to do with, suppression. 

Disha
Oh, okay. 

Nathalie:
That's a whole different topic. 

Disha
That's a whole different thing. 

Nathalie
Yeah, that has to do with that. It has to be with, imagine who we can become if we all start listening to our inner voice. Where would we go as society? What would we be as humans? 

Disha
Wow. 

Nathalie
We would, overcome our belittleness. We would grow beyond something we don't understand yet, because we cannot see it in the world. But deep down inside we all know. And we listen to others and allow them to tell us that they know better than we and we also give them our power, you know, we, we also do that, consciously because yeah, well, they know, they have learned from it, they still don't know any of that, you know, they know a piece of it and that's changing also all the time.

And before , I did this, what I do now, I, was a researcher for ten years or something, and I started with statistics. In the beginning I thought, oh, this is very easy, I understand it, it's, very clear, but then after years, I, started to go deeper and deeper, and I thought, I dont understand anything? What do I know. And I always thought it was very funny because when I was at the top of it, I thought, I understand it all. But when you go deeper, in a way you become more humble. And you say, show me the way it works. And sometimes it's shown to you and you don't understand because you're not there yet. And you wait. And then slowly, you understand it more and more.

Allowing yourself. To listen to your inner voice is also the way of courage, because that means that you have to stand up to the things around you that want you to believe a certain way, want you to behave a certain way. Even friends and family are used to who you are. Even you are used to who you are. You're also standing up against yourself. It's so worthy, because it's so much richness comes when we allow ourselves to listen to our inner voice, to our higher selves. In a way we start traveling without moving at all. And all this knowledge that is inside you, this deep knowing, this unconditional love we actually search for in our lives, and all the connections we make, we carry inside ourselves. 

The journey is a bumpy one, for you to know if you are going on this quest. And then Jose always, I'll tell you, so yeah, but what, what did it give you? I say, well, so what did it give me? Peace, inner peace. And it's not that I'm always there, sometimes I get lost because I don't listen to myself. And , or I, , the spirit say, yeah, or we tell you, but you do it anyway. I say, this is true. And I can be very stubborn. But they will never say to me like, we told you so, so it's always like, okay, you wanted to, you wanted to experience it. So, they allow me to experience, even if have to dive very deep. But they're always there to, and the higher self also, to, in a way, to pick me up. Then things come to me, a book, or I need to go to a very good friend, or just to, be with myself, or, whatever, you know, they just show me.

It's not that they leave me at the bottom of the pit forever, , and , I believe it with everyone is the same, but our, our gaze is out, as outside us, in the outside world, and not, we're not facing ourselves. So the other day, the episode about the mirror is the one that you start facing yourself and seeing who you are in the good and in the bad in, in what you did in, in this whole life and say, I see you, I acknowledge you.

And I love you for who you are. And from that, things will change. Because when, in a way, you accept yourself, you embrace yourself. With everything there is. And with that our shadows can come to the surface and leave us. 

Disha
What's the role of trust in this process? 

Nathalie
Trust is one of the most important things like hope. Hope is the beginning, and from that trust will develop. When there is no trust in life, You're like this ball, like this ping pong ball. Like we used to play as kids. Like, toot toot toot toot toot toot toot toot, till it goes to all the lamps and the lights and woo woo woo woo woo.

You're like that. When there is no trust. But how would you develop trust? It, to surrender. To look at yourself and say, Okay, this is who I am, right now. With all the conditioning, with all the beliefs, with everything there is, everything I did and everything I, will be doing in the future, but within all of that, there's a core, they say. And the core is the one that has the experience. Not Disha and not Nathalie. The core is the one that has the experience.