#6 Jeff Sebo: Why We’re Wrong About Who Matters

In this episode, we speak with Dr. Jeff Sebo, a philosopher and bioethicist at New York University, about what it would mean to take seriously the possibility that non-human animals (including insects) and future AI systems might matter morally.

(00:00) Our introduction
(05:56) Interview begins
(07:21) The moral circle vs. the legal and political circles
(13:18) Why has the moral circle expanded over time?
(20:53) How should we trade off human and non-human welfare in practice?
(33:40) How should we treat non-human animals in research?
(37:25) How should we treat current AI systems, given that we’re not certain that they’re not sentient?
(46:22) Philosophical underpinnings: What grounds moral status?
(52:09) Philosophical underpinnings: What is sentience?
(56:20) Philosophical underpinnings: Interspecies welfare comparisons
(1:00:22) Philosophical underpinnings: Moral uncertainty and humility
(1:10:35) What causes should you prioritize if you care about non-human animal welfare?
(1:19:09) Is the total welfare in the world net negative; and if so, should this affect which causes we prioritize?

Relevant readings:

• Bob Fischer and Hayley Clatterbuck, “The Risks and Rewards of Prioritizing Animals of Uncertain Sentience”
• Ben Goldfrab, “Animals need infrastructure, too”
• Kyle Fish, “Net global welfare may be negative and declining”

Bio(un)ethical is a bioethics podcast written by Leah Pierson and Sophie Gibert, with editing and production by Audiolift.co. Our music is written by Nina Khoury and performed by Social Skills. We are supported by a grant from Amplify Creative Grants.