Ever wondered if the secret to acing your next job interview could be nestled within the tactics of FBI negotiators? That's precisely what Joe Haslam and I, Adam Richardson, explore in our latest episode. We kick off a dynamic discussion on how to employ active listening, empathy, rapport, influence, and behavioral change – tactics straight out of the FBI playbook – when you're in the hot seat, facing potential employers. Through vivid anecdotes and advice grounded in experience, we pull back the curtain on the strategic dance of truthfully presenting your best self, avoiding the pitfalls of resume inflation, and staying composed even when the stakes feel sky-high.
Do your palms sweat at the thought of choosing the perfect interview attire or nailing the perfect handshake? Fear not. Our conversation shifts to the nuances of making a stellar first impression, discussing everything from the ideal time to schedule an interview to the subtleties of non-verbal communication. I share personal missteps and successes, like the time my pinstripe suit sent the wrong message, to help you tailor your appearance and demeanor with precision. We wrap up with a rundown of a foolproof pre-interview checklist and the art of respectful and empathetic engagement with your interviewer, ensuring you walk into that room equipped for success.
Finally, we hone in on the meticulous preparation techniques that can set you apart from the rest. Joe and I dissect the importance of anticipating questions, the impact of a well-placed resume in an interviewer's hands, and the noble art of honest self-assessment when discussing your skills and limitations. By exuding authenticity and respect throughout the process, we discuss how you can prompt a behavioral change in your interviewer, turning the tables in your favor. If you've ever wondered how to leave a lasting, positive impression that could very well lead to your next job offer, this is the episode you won't want to miss. Join us for insights that could unlock doors in your career you never even knew existed.
Ever wondered if the secret to acing your next job interview could be nestled within the tactics of FBI negotiators? That's precisely what Joe Haslam and I, Adam Richardson, explore in our latest episode. We kick off a dynamic discussion on how to employ active listening, empathy, rapport, influence, and behavioral change – tactics straight out of the FBI playbook – when you're in the hot seat, facing potential employers. Through vivid anecdotes and advice grounded in experience, we pull back the curtain on the strategic dance of truthfully presenting your best self, avoiding the pitfalls of resume inflation, and staying composed even when the stakes feel sky-high.
Do your palms sweat at the thought of choosing the perfect interview attire or nailing the perfect handshake? Fear not. Our conversation shifts to the nuances of making a stellar first impression, discussing everything from the ideal time to schedule an interview to the subtleties of non-verbal communication. I share personal missteps and successes, like the time my pinstripe suit sent the wrong message, to help you tailor your appearance and demeanor with precision. We wrap up with a rundown of a foolproof pre-interview checklist and the art of respectful and empathetic engagement with your interviewer, ensuring you walk into that room equipped for success.
Finally, we hone in on the meticulous preparation techniques that can set you apart from the rest. Joe and I dissect the importance of anticipating questions, the impact of a well-placed resume in an interviewer's hands, and the noble art of honest self-assessment when discussing your skills and limitations. By exuding authenticity and respect throughout the process, we discuss how you can prompt a behavioral change in your interviewer, turning the tables in your favor. If you've ever wondered how to leave a lasting, positive impression that could very well lead to your next job offer, this is the episode you won't want to miss. Join us for insights that could unlock doors in your career you never even knew existed.
Today on the Idios Guide, we are talking about the art of negotiating with your future employer, how to ace an interview using those awesome FBI negotiator tactics. And have you ever been, today, old when you finally learned about something mind-blowing? Yeah, I have. We have a life hack that will change your life for the better. I'm your host, adam Richardson, aka the Profit Hacker, and I'm joined by the man in charge, mr Joe Haslam. Welcome to the Idios Guide. Hey everyone, our community has grown fast, but we're not stopping there. Help us expand even further by hitting that subscribe button and joining the family. Together, we can reach new heights of idiocy, anyway, so today I want to kind of chat a little bit more about this.
Speaker 1:Negotiating tactics Thanks. We talked about the different tactics and I want to rehash them, just to make sure I'm not going to go over them other than just list them. Last time we really unpacked those tactics, which was good, but it also burned up an hour of time. But I think it was really good because it was also the time where we were talking about negotiating with the kids, kids, children, potato, tomato, whatever. So, anyway, negotiator tactics they are number one active listening. Number two, empathy. Number three, rapport. Number four influence. And number five, behavioral change. So how does negotiator tactics apply when you're sitting in an interview sweating and nervous and worried about this job that you may have over applied for and you're in over your head? You know it the first second you walk in the door. But how do you maintain that Cool? How do you maintain that posture that just says you know what? I got this? What do you think, joe?
Speaker 2:You know, when you think about an interview, the first thing to realize is that you were brought in for an interview, so obviously you've got something okay.
Speaker 1:Something they noticed.
Speaker 2:yeah, yeah, there's some reason they brought you in, because when I hire people, I get, you know, probably maybe 50 resumes at a time and I don't interview 50 people, I break that down so I get rid of. You know probably 40 resumes, just off the top.
Speaker 1:So essentially your interview process. Obviously this makes more sense, but your interview starts before the in person. Oh, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Well and we kind of talked about this the other day when you are looking at doing a job interview, it's two sides of an advertising coin, and so the business. When they put this ad out there that they're looking for a position, they are advertising their marketing to get this person in, to get this job filled, and so they're going to make it sound great. You know, here's all the perks, here's all the better. You don't see all the negatives of that job. You know where you're going to have to be working till midnight a couple times a year. You don't see those things, because that's what they're advertising for. They're advertising the positives of the job, and so they're really advertising for this. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, you're also advertising yourself, you are selling yourself, you're marketing yourself to this company and you're saying this is the best of me, and so you're going to put out there and say this is everything that I have to offer. You're not going to tell them all the negatives about yourself, you're going to put the positives out there, and so you're both marketing to get something accomplished. And so when you look at it from that perspective, it's just advertising skill. You know, are you advertising yourself the best? Now there's false advertising, which I really hate, in resumes, and so people will false advertise themselves, and actually a lot of colleges tells the college kids to false advertise on their resumes.
Speaker 1:Well, I think there's a fine line between embellishment and false advertising.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:And you know, if you were like the, you made it to like a team lead at a McDonald's and you know, on staff, collectively there might be 40 employees on that at that McDonald's location. You never work with any of them, maybe maybe three of them because you have the night shift and whatever Like but. But you can say, like you have, you know, this influence that you've. You've impacted the lives of 40 individuals. You know successfully pursuing their careers, when the reality is is that you are excellent at making fries.
Speaker 2:Well, and and I mean yes to some degree that you know. I mean you're just making fries. But when you're in that leadership position, even if it's a shift lead position at McDonald's, you've still got to manage your staff. Oh yeah, you still got to manage the customer interaction. There's still a lot of managerial skill that goes on there.
Speaker 1:And so that's. You use every customer. You're like I have engaged with more than blah, blah, blah, like you know 10,000 people a week. You know like ooh, but that's that's exactly you, a public speaker.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:No, I would have guessed that first not fry cook.
Speaker 2:But well, I mean, if you're a shift lead, you're not necessarily a fry cook, but yeah, and that's the thing is, you want to market yourself, you're advertising yourself, you, you are showing the best of you. Yeah, what you don't want to do. And I actually had this happen to me. So I had someone come in for an accounting clerk position and he had on his resume that he was an accounts receivable clerk at a dollar store. And so I'm like, okay, that's pretty interesting. You know, he must have worked in the corporate office or something. I didn't think there was a corporate office nearby where I was hiding hiring this person from. I'm like, okay, maybe, I just didn't know. And so I brought him in for an interview. I was kind of skeptical but, you know.
Speaker 2:Okay, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. And so when he came in, you know I was asking some probing questions about you know where he worked, what kind of work it was, and he finally admitted. He said I was a cashier at a dollar store. Dollar store. And you know, during the probing questions it was pretty obvious that he was not an accounts receivable clerk on that, he was just a cashier. But he said, when he went to his college I don't know if it was a guidance counselor or a professor and that was helping him to prepare the resume they said put accounts receivable clerk on your resume. It looks better. And quote unquote technically you were receiving cash from these accounts.
Speaker 1:I mean you could also do accounts payable if you're giving change. Yeah, I mean you could. You know like, oh, you have best of both, both of those on this one, and so that's AR AP, that's false advertising, that's not embellishment.
Speaker 2:And there are a lot of things I mean one thing that really gets me there are a lot of things that colleges tell you to put on a resume that, or to do in an interview or to do following an interview that I can't stand and a lot of employers can't stand. They're just bogus things that these colleges, employment centers, whatever tell you to do to make themselves look good. So the college will tell you, oh, embellish yourself because it'll get you more jobs. No, it won't. It just makes you sound like. It makes the college person sound like they know better and they've got all this. And no, we hate that. As employers, as as business owners, we hate when those kinds of things happen. One of my biggest pet peeves I'm just going to say this right now because I know this is a little off topic, but one of my biggest pet peeves with interviews is the note card or letter or whatever after the interview. Don't ever do that.
Speaker 1:I think there's a time and place for it. I don't know if it's a universal thing, because there are jobs that you definitely like, like if I went and got a construction job, not going to send a thank you card or flowers, it doesn't matter, I don't care.
Speaker 2:Well, it's not after getting the job case of beer.
Speaker 1:Then you know, like that's probably I'll get the job. Yeah, you know, all right, thanks on the side of the case, you know.
Speaker 2:But but, and that's really different. I mean, in that situation, yes, that would probably get you the job, but I can guarantee you sending a note card after the interview saying thank you for the interview, it was great. Whatever, that will not get you the job. Right. I mean colleges, employment companies. They say that it will, it never will. I can tell you from other people I've talked to we hate those postcards, those letters, because all it does is shows us that all you're doing is listening to someone else. It is not you. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And so it's not who you are when you're sending that in.
Speaker 1:So, ultimately, college professors are setting you up for failure, or at least a long road to employment, that's exactly it, yeah, and so what impresses us in an interview is you being you.
Speaker 2:So one question that I always ask in interviews and this is you know this is coming back to some of these topics on negotiating tactics, because, remember, you're both negotiating, so you are both FBI negotiators in this job interview. Right, the person doing the hiring and the person being.
Speaker 1:If you apply these five principles to both sides of this, if you are the employer or if you are the future employee or pursuing that employment, then you know these both apply and that's why we said they're communication principles. They're not necessarily this. We're just showing an application of that same effective communication skill.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, one of my favorite questions to ask and I ask this in every interview what's the most recent book you've read and what did you learn from it? I don't care. Some people get really hung up on this and they try to think, oh, what's the most recent managerial book I've read? It's got to be something really good, otherwise they're not going to hire me. No, if the most recent book you've read is Harry Potter, great. Yeah. If the most recent book you've read is Sports Illustrated Magazine, great. You know, I want to hear from you, because that points out who you are.
Speaker 1:So I'm going to go to this real quick before I go to the steps, because so I looked this up. It was an interesting fact at the bottom of this little info graph and it was a survey done by the interviewed 270 CFOs, and for some reason it was in Canada again. The last one was in Canada too, so I don't know it seems to be Account.
Speaker 1:Temps was the survey. So CFOs, they were interviewed and basically it's the timings impact on job interviews. The first one is, like they asked these CFOs which of the following times of day do you believe is the most productive for conducting hiring interviews? The highest percentage is between 9 am and 11 am. Why? I think it's probably just because that's kind of the hour of most production in an average day anyway. After lunch you're usually a little groggy. First thing in the morning you're usually a little groggy. So there's like this, these peak hours, I would probably say, and you can actually see this. The next one, the next lowest percentage, is 11 to 1. Because again you're trying to avoid that lunch 26% is 1 to 3, but you're still talking about 9 am to 3 pm is the chunk of time between there. Everything else is like 6% 1%. So before 9 am is 1%.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you never bring anyone in before 9.
Speaker 1:3 pm to 5 pm 6% After 5, 0.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, you never conduct an interview after 5.
Speaker 1:The other thing that they asked. So nearly basically nearly 2 out of 5 conduct interviews between 9 and 11 am. So the other thing that they were asked is how long does it typically take you to form an opinion of a candidate during an initial interview?
Speaker 2:Alright, before you say it, I'm going to tell you my timetable.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:So for me. I don't know how they did the answers, but it's anywhere from 2 to 5 minutes in the interview that I have an opinion made of this person.
Speaker 1:That's 11%, is less than 5 minutes.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:So but 60% of CFOs form positive or negative opinions of candidates in 15 minutes or less.
Speaker 2:Okay, I can see that.
Speaker 1:So you know, like when you're talking about the things that you're choosing, you've asked that question about what book you're reading and they say, well, I just finished the most recent Sports Illustrated magazine. Does that count, you know? And you're like great, that forms an opinion for me, so thanks. Well, great interview. You know like it.
Speaker 2:but I don't want to make people think that, you know, having the Sports Illustrated magazine is the most recent book Be a negative thing, because it's not about what book it is, it's about what did you learn from it. And so if they said, uh, I didn't really learn anything from it, I learned that models are hot.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean then it's like okay, you know you should be learning throughout your life. And so, again, I don't care if it's Harry Potter, but if you can say, yeah, I learned, you know, you know that I need to be more outgoing, more courageous, more this or that, great, I don't care if it's a kid's book, you learned something from it. You took something away from it. So that means if I give you some tedious task, you're probably going to take something away from that.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So I want to jump into these hacks because I think you know we're going to. We're going to cover some of those engaging questions at the same time. This is leaning toward the individual who's looking to ace the job, interview, get the job. So, yes, the interviewer might take from this, or the employer might take something from this, but it's more insight from individuals who you and I both been interviewers for candidates that we needed to hire, and so we've sat across the table and I'm giving you the tips and tricks to, to, to, to woo me into employing you.
Speaker 1:So the first one is calm your nerves in advance. Okay, so I called this one parking lot breathing exercises. Okay, why? Because that's what you're going to do. You need to come in there with just this cool head on your shoulders and, honestly, it's going to lend well to active listening, which is the first one. Active listening is kind of that foundational piece of this. If you're wired up and you know you, you go in there and you're you're answering the questions before they're completely asked, or you're you're talking way too much or you don't even give them a chance to be able to ask you questions. You're just kind of like a space invader instantly. Whatever it is. All of those things lend to your nerves. Calm yourself. Go in there after having a breathing exercise so that you know you are, your aura is centered, you, whatever you want to call it, I don't, I don't care, just don't go in there like a racehorse. Go in there like you're a turtle, like getting ready to take a nap, maybe not quite that relaxed, but you know.
Speaker 2:Don't have five cups of coffee before your interview. True, yeah.
Speaker 1:That's, and if you do pee before you go, you need to be in the middle of it.
Speaker 2:Now employers or interviewers are going to know this is a nerve wracking experience and so they know you're a little bit nervous and so don't worry, if you are a little nervous, just calm yourself down to that point where it is just a little nervous. Yeah. Because if you're so nervous that you can't hear the questions, that you can't respond, and a lot of times when you're nervous, you will answer too quickly. Mm, hmm.
Speaker 2:And your brain hasn't actually processed the question and so you just give the most surface level answer that your brain has, and that's not one of the interviewer wants. Take a moment to pause, think about it. If you need a clarifying question, ask a clarifying question I think that's one of the later things on here, yep and then clarify the point and then give the answer.
Speaker 1:To be honest, it is in this, in this first one it's you know, being calm lens to that, so that you know, before you answer the question, take a breath. Yeah, you know, even if it takes you two seconds, three seconds before you actually answer it, it means now to that employer that you are considering that question. If you need clarity, you may ask. Like, if I'm understanding you correctly, you're wanting to know about this. Yeah, you know, and that is lending to active listening. That's what that is. Is you're validating the fact that you are paying attention to what that employer wants to know?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and you know there's a lot of. I know people get scared if they don't say something that they're going to be judged as they don't know the answer. Yeah, the reality is most interviewers have good skills in reading body language and so and we all give off that thinking body language I love the TV show psych, and whenever he has these revelations that he's seeing these clues, they make fun of it and later seasons he tilts his head and looks up and so and they a lot of times make fun of him doing that. Look, but we all have those subtle cues. When we start thinking about something, a lot of us will tilt our head and kind of scrunch our eyes as we think it's completely unconscious, as we're doing this Benefit of body language, and so an interview will recognize that. And so when you ask, when they ask you a question, and you pause to think you are automatically going to act that way, they're going to see it, and so they know this isn't just a random pause, that you're actually thinking about the answer.
Speaker 1:But also lends to the perception of honesty. Yeah, If you're too quick to answer, you know, and I want to say this is body language is one of those things. They've debunked the science behind the fact that, depending on which way your eyes look or glance is depending on whether or not you're telling the truth. It's absolute crap. They can't. There's not even quantifiable data that shows that. But what does reveal that is your haste in an answer. If you are too quick to respond oftentimes and you fill it with space, it's, you know, it's, it's, it's, it's not. Not fill it with space, fill that space with words, and then you oftentimes are viewed as a little dishonesty or are embellishing in that and that doesn't doesn't lend well.
Speaker 2:And and be honest with the interviewer when you're nervous- Yep. And say sorry, I'm talking really fast. I'm really nervous about this, and usually that will cause the interviewer to say, okay, let's just take a minute, we'll talk about something else to kind of help you calm down, because they really want the best out of you. They didn't call you in, they got a hundred resumes. You are the 10% that made it through to the interview. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Okay, you've got to realize that, and so if you made it through to that final 10% of actually getting interviewed, it means the interviewer actually wants to hear what you're saying. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And so it's that level of confidence, knowing that, okay, I am here for a reason. You may be nervous, but just be honest about that. They want to hear that real good opinion and so a lot of times if I notice someone's being nervous, say, okay, let's talk about something else. I noticed you're nervous, you're kind of talking fast, um, you know, let's calm it down a little bit and then we go back into the questions and then I get a much more honest answer.
Speaker 1:So we're going to camp a little less on the other ones of these. But the next one is you know, plan what to wear well ahead of time, and I know that sounds weird. I actually called this one creepy stalker. The reason why is not so you're like hiding behind one of the fake ficuses in there and being like what are they wearing? Pay attention to what they're wearing. Like, go to the workplace, go to the office space and see what's coming in and out of the building. You know, see that attire. If you show up in a three piece suit or whatever the classiest attire, even business, professional, and these people are computer programmers wearing t-shirts and they've got, you know, lego on the front of their shirt. You know, like, that you're totally going to, you're going to make that employer feel uncomfortable. So you don't want to come in too big of a high roller because they're you know that might impact their perception of you in the sense of, oh gosh, what are they going to ask for a salary at this point? You know right, you know so you need to. It's almost like reading that and this is this lends to that empathy. You are paying attention to their feels. That way, when you go in, you're creating, you're, you're maintaining that safe environment that they're inviting you into, so that you don't come in a power player right out of the gate.
Speaker 1:I I'll say this I went to a job interview that I thought, um, this was years ago. I thought I was going into it. As you know, like I had a study, I read a book called the platinum rule. That was all about, like, different personality traits. And when I read that platinum rule, it, uh it, it revealed to me that, you know, my mental leadership capacity and this is me bragging about myself is CEO grade. So it means, like I'm a director, I can do those sorts of things and confidently handle it, not not sweat through it all.
Speaker 1:And so when I was dealing, when I had that interview process, the interviewers they were wearing polo shirts and I was wearing a pinstripe suit. Okay, I came in. It was a trading company, like a stock exchange. So I was like, okay, this is business, this is what we do. So I came in wearing my money suit and they were wearing polo shirts and I'm like, oh crap. And then I say my, my personality as being director, level intelligence. I.
Speaker 1:The interview was over in 10 minutes, and only because of the fact I knew the answer before I left the building. The answer was going to be no. Why? Because I was a threat. I now became somebody who could take their job, and they don't want that. So you got to read the room, you got to know. You know, like even in the sense that I would probably choose to lie If I read that in the platinum rule at this point and be like there is information you need to know and there's information you don't need to know. So I'll let you know. Here's the here's how far I made it into the book. You know, like I just roughly skimmed it, so I don't really necessarily know my own skills. But then at the same time, I wore a suit in front of two managers who were polo shirts.
Speaker 2:The rule of thumb that I like to recommend is you dress one step above everyone else, and so if you go into a company where so like my attire is jeans, nice shoes always, and, you know, an untucked button up shirt, you know, I don't wear t-shirts to the office, I don't accept on, maybe on weekends, but I don't ever expect. I don't want people coming into the office working in an accounting field in t-shirts. You know I expect them to come in in a button up shirt. That's, that's the expected dress code. Okay, so jeans button up shirt doesn't have to be tucked in. So if you're looking at, okay, that's the normal dress code, then I want to go one step above that. So maybe put on a sports coat. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Because that's one step above.
Speaker 1:They call that the cowboy tux.
Speaker 2:Yes, exactly. Or maybe you tuck in the shirt and have some khakis, but no tie. Right. And so that's the one step above, and don't look at the website to determine what people actually wear those are stock photos. They dress up really nice for that, or they're stock photos. There's a lot of reasons, but so if they're wearing polos, then you're going to do one step above.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and then you're going to wear a collar, no tie, not even a jacket. I would probably do jeans and a button up shirt, right, you know?
Speaker 2:If it's somewhere really, really nice where they're wearing khakis or slacks, buttoned up shirts, tucked in but no tie, put on a tie. You always want to dress one step above because you're showing that you are showing them respect without overpowering the situation, and that's one of these FBI tactics is that you don't want to over-push yourself. This is showing your empathy for the interviewer.
Speaker 1:Like I said, even though they're conducting the interview, they've made the decision, out of all of the applicants, for you to come into that space. That is their safe space. No matter what we look at it, it's not yes, it's their job. Yes, it's a place of work or a place of business, but yet it is the place that they spend a big chunk of every single day, so they have their safety there. So if you're being invited into that, part of that empathy is being attentive to those little details that make it so that they don't feel uncomfortable when you show up.
Speaker 1:The next one is have a job interview checklist. I know it sounds funny, but it later and I actually put this one, I called this one check your shoes. You know part of it is having what to wear, those sorts of things. But it's also running through interview questions, kind of rehearsing some of those things, making sure that if you have a resume that's needed, you printed out copies of that resume, making sure that you don't have too much BS on there, that they're going to read right through it. Those are all really helpful tools. If you look prepared, act prepared, are prepared, that lends to your success in an interview. You can be. I would say honestly, you could overprepare and it'd be okay, as long as you're not like I've highlighted all of the great things about me and that's too much preparedness.
Speaker 2:And I would say I would disagree with you a little bit on that. But I would say you know, overprepare, because then it's going to kind of sound fake. So bring an extra resume with you. Definitely agree with that. You always want to bring an extra, a couple of extra copies of resumes. Yeah.
Speaker 1:The clerk. There you're like, here you want one, and you get a resume, and you get a resume.
Speaker 2:Because a lot of times you know we've got like when I do it I have a preprinted form of the questions I'm going to ask. Really, I've either gotten the electronic copy of the resume or I've printed one out. But a lot of times they just have the electronic version and so by you bringing them one, they can now write notes on it, and that really stands out, because then they can refer to those notes later on, and so that makes a big difference. That's why handing them a resume at the interview is great, because they may not have done that in advance.
Speaker 1:And those things are going to. You know, having a resume, for example, or having information that they might be going off of an application, remember what you put on there so that when they ask you because they're going to ask you something about what you said, then you know you need to be ready with any kind of answer in that. And that lends to the next one, basically. So, being prepared. Let me say this about check your shoes having that job interview checklist is connected to that rapport building, what we talked about. The next one is be prepared to answer common questions and also unexpected questions. You know, like what book did you most recently read and what did you get from it? Kind of a thing. You know that's a really creative question and it gets somebody, kind of catches them off guard, and if you're not prepared for that could really send you tailspinning. You know, if you're because you're already, nerves are up there, you've done all your breathing exercises, you've crossed T's and dotted eyes, but this is something that you could probably rehearse. If you've got a friend, you're like hey, dude, can you just ask me random questions about me working for this company over here, because I need to know that I can, you know, sit there and keep my cool and answer some some pretty tough questions if they have them. That's just being prepared and, honestly, the more you do, that I'll do. I'll say it in this.
Speaker 1:When I am on a sales conversation before I even have a conversation with somebody in that sales format, I am rehearsing a script in my head. I'm not reading it. I've done it where I've read verbatim. But I've rehearsed this over and over and over to the point where if somebody asks or has an objection, I know what to say, down to the science of it, so that I can turn that back around. You know, and that that's something that you know works. The same way, when you're talking Now, don't objection, handle your future potential employer, but not quite. But being prepared for those questions means that when they come, you just take a breath and actively listen, acknowledge that question and answer with a cool, calm voice.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and one thing that goes along with the false advertising and a lot of the things that we're talking about with these negotiation tactics are if they catch you in a lie immediately, you've lost the ability to have any trust. Yep, okay, and so I will. I deal a lot with Excel, and so this is one thing where most people think that they're really really good at Excel, when they're maybe at a scale of four out of 10.
Speaker 2:Yeah and that's from a lot of interviews of a lot of people who have used Excel and think they're great at it.
Speaker 1:I'm really good at it, I can open it yeah. So I have I didn't say I know how to do anything else. Yeah, I can open it. I could put a what I could like, type in it and expand the box or decrease. That's as much as of Excel. I know I got they'll put MS Excel.
Speaker 2:Proficiency on their resume, and so I always ask them Okay, so I've got three.
Speaker 1:Proficiency is a scale like you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I've got three formulas that I always ask people and I know when what's what level you are in Excel based on those three Formulas. Trap questions. It is it is, and so if you and I know when you are lying about it, and this applies to any industry. So this is Excel and accounting specific, but any industry you go into, the interviewer is gonna know if you are making stuff up.
Speaker 2:Yes and so when they ask you, it's okay to say I don't know, and I actually have more respect For the people who say I don't know Right off the bat, then the ones who try to wiggle their way out of not knowing it.
Speaker 1:Especially since, like I would guess that those three things are not so overly complicated that you can't learn that in your first week of working with you. So they are so the first one.
Speaker 2:Just about everyone knows. If they don't know that one, then they're not proficient, and so I know that they're just using it as like a basic spreadsheet, and so I know, okay, they're, they're out.
Speaker 1:I got this off the template and it sounded nice.
Speaker 2:The second one is Some more people may know it Because they've probably used it. It's a little bit more complicated. The third one is like programming level Excel and so if they know that one, I know what they've done in Excel. I know that they've really done good work. Now all three of these are taught in a basic office Like college course. I don't know if it's in high school, but if you go through any of these courses where they're teaching you these business systems so access or Excel or anything these all three of these are discussed there yeah but the last two are used as often and so you don't remember them.
Speaker 2:And so and again this applies to any industry they're gonna ask you these things specifically. Don't try to make it up. Just be honest, because they will catch you in the light and they will have more respect for you when you say I don't know, because that shows that you're gonna be honest on the job and that stands out way more because they can teach you those skills. Yeah, but looking for finding someone that's honest about their inability, that Above and beyond stands out, absolutely yeah. Anything else?
Speaker 1:be being transparent is a you know and, and being honest is is a good sign of vulnerability.
Speaker 1:You know, if you are trusting or showing somebody that you trust the situation and scenario enough for you to be that Vulnerable in front of somebody, you know it, it they might be looking for somebody that's perfect at that and that that that just means that you didn't have the job when you walked in the door, right exactly but.
Speaker 1:But if you are that kind of an individual, it also shows that you, you're, you're more apt to be willing to learn that quickly, and a lot of people don't mind fast learners like, if you come in and you pick this up quickly, I would rather talk to you than the guy who Confidently can run circles around all three of those and maybe even myself, because then I've got somebody gunning for my position. I don't want that. I will move them out quickly. You know, sorry, but even your employer. Unless they are the owner of the company, typically they they're going to have some level of preservation in their questioning, and even as the owner of the company even though it's not one of those situations where, I think, in the medical industry they call them gunners.
Speaker 2:Or a medical school, they call them gunners Even as the owner of the company, when someone comes in and they, you know, overconfidently say oh yeah, I know this one and explain everything to you. It's that idea that that's how they're going to be interacting with people. Yeah, it's that arrogance that you don't want, you know, because that's that's not going to be good in most industries. Now there's some industries where arrogance is perfect. That's exactly what you want.
Speaker 1:Yep but most of them it's not, so the the next one, so those two were kind of wrapped around report. And the next one is consider the initial handshake, the bone crusher. Okay, that is influence, like, like your initial interaction with somebody when you walk in and you introduce yourself and you Reach out to shake a hand and yes, like I don't care if covid exists, the covid exists. You still reach to make some sort of an exchange, whether that I remember I made a joke. I saw it come across my feed recently in social social media, but it was like I will accept bowing as as a more courteous interaction going forward and, honestly, culturally you probably get away with that. You're like I only bow at this point, so please bow with me.
Speaker 2:And I mean to some degree. I mean there's a lot less of, uh, in-person interaction with interviews. A lot of it's over zoom right. Uh, so the initial salutation is really important. Um, but me, as a Uh employer, I will never shake hands. I I'm a germaphobe. I do not like the idea of shaking hands. I'm also autistic, so physical contact is not my favorite thing in the world. Uh, and so it's just one of those things where read the room. Yeah and read the body language of the interviewer.
Speaker 1:Okay, so. So, for the most part, let's say this generally speaking, a handshake is a courteous introduction, universally and in the effort, read the room, of course. If somebody is, you know, resistant to it, respect that resistance. Don't, don't come on it. Don't leave me hanging in, you know, because because again now you're gonna have, you're gonna have that Safety infringement. You're not empathetic, you're not, you know, like all of those things apply. You didn't read that correctly. But For the most part, initiate a handshake until you've been advised otherwise.
Speaker 2:Some kind of salutation. Yeah, always do some kind of salutation, even if it's not a handshake, do like a wave.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know, do something so that you are acknowledging a head nod, a courteous Hi, it's very nice to meet you without making contact, certainly very, very socially acceptable, especially now. If you do reach in for a handshake, it's not a bone crusher, it is. It's not a fish in their hand. So you don't just hand them over this floppy thing, you know and it's just but, but you also do not try to crack every bone in their hand. That that way you, it's firm, it's it's direct. But it's also part of that is is when you are making making that contact and connecting with somebody, you're not staring at their hand, you are making eye contact with them.
Speaker 1:It's actually more important about the eye contact and acknowledgement of that person. Then it is the handshake itself. The physical handshake Lends to that a little bit, but it's the eye contact and acknowledgement. Nice to meet you, joe. It's very nice. Making direct eye contact, not hard-staring, not looking in another direction and looking down and I know that you know individuals socially, especially if autistic, is that eye contact is probably one of the most difficult parts of that exchange and you got to understand as an employer, pay attention to that as well, you know, because that person might be a rock star when it comes to your business but? But they might not have the best social cues at the very front and I would say most.
Speaker 2:Again, going back to the body language, most time it's pretty easy to tell someone who is being Disrespectful with eye contact versus socially awkward with eye contact correct it's. It's pretty easy to tell in most cases. Sorry, I've got allergies today so I'm itching my nose a lot. Sorry for those watching on YouTube. But yeah, so those situations where again all this comes back to, as you're looking at those negotiating tactics from the FBI, this all applies when you're walking in. You're showing that empathy, you're show you're actively listening not only to their words but to their body language.
Speaker 1:Yep you are participating in this interview process well, like we talked about last episode, everything lends to everything, down to the last one, and that's that's. That's really where this this ends is, you know. The last one is behavioral change. That's the FBI one. So all of those other things lend to that behavioral change.
Speaker 1:What's the behavioral change you're trying to do with an employer? You want them to hire you. So they may have skepticism about it, you know, about you being hired into the company, they have lots of questions. They may not even want to hire you. So you know, you don't know a lot of variables about that situation.
Speaker 1:The only thing you can do is run these negotiator tactics and be able to control that Behavioral change, which is answer the interview questions with poise. You have poise is your demeanor, your respect of the individual, your your Acknowledgement when you first have a greeting, your presence, when you walk in the room, what you're wearing, what you check your shoes. You know all of these things, they all, all of those things lend to this poise that you have when you are in an interview with somebody and that all adds up to you are. Their goal is to change their behavior for your betterment. That's, that is all, that is. So you know, those are. Those are probably some of the quickest like job hacks that you can apply that are directly correlating with the FBI negotiator or tactics.
Speaker 1:Now Are there more hacks? Yeah, of course Sure. I went on to Linked in and looked up, looked up some information. Somebody was like, yeah, like, make sure this by the by the second point, I had already read four words that were well over ten dollar words. I had no idea what they were. I was like are you kidding me? This isn't advice, this is mud.
Speaker 2:Like this isn't gonna do anybody any good because you're you're so high brow that you're not helping anybody and and this is the problem that's the exact thing that I was talking about at the very beginning with these college professors, with these college counselors, the hiring agencies. They want to sound important, so they will give you this really crappy advice because it sounds good. What you've got to realize? The person on the other side of the desk from you is just another human being. They're doing their job.
Speaker 1:Even if you have an MBA, even if you have a great degree and you're going into a specified field of something that you're doing, the, the human brain interacts at a particular age level and, honestly, in in in marketing principles it is fifth grade.
Speaker 1:I do not go above that when I'm trying to communicate. If I use anything above that grade level, I'm gonna lose the interest of people, not because they aren't tracking what words I'm saying, but because they just their brain doesn't process that information in that fast. Now, if they buckled in and they you have my attention and you know like, whatever it is and they engaged, sure we can have a Brain flexing conversation to see who says bigger words, but at the end of the day, like nobody wins and and honestly in an interview, that's the last thing you want to do. Right, you want to come at it and go like, look, I want to keep things simple now. I don't want you to consider this person a fifth grader, but I want you to think about it and go how can I make sure that what I say you?
Speaker 2:know it's it's.
Speaker 1:The example would be when you explain something sometimes and I'm like, well, let's, let's say what's it kind of like Okay, and I use kind of like, oh, it's kind of like this and it completely isn't. But you know, but at the same time, the idea of that is to try to simplify, simplify the word salad so that it's less complex and and easier to chew on which I am not very good at.
Speaker 2:But yeah, and that's the thing I would. Just, it's a human on the other side of you. You know there. They're not. They're looking for, you know, the person with the most ten dollar words. They're not gauging your intelligence, they're gauging your qualifications for a job yep and just keep that in mind.
Speaker 2:It's it. Job interviews, while important and I know for a lot of people who don't have jobs and they're trying to get a job for their livelihood, this is a very high intensity thing for you, but just realize there are. You were called in for a reason. The other person is just doing their job and Talk to a comfortable level be honest.
Speaker 1:Talk to a person, don't talk to the company.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that's how you're, that's how you're gonna do it. I mean, that's exactly what the FBI is doing as they're going through all these things is that they are Building that relationship with the other person so that they can get them to change what they're doing or to get information out of them, whatever the case may be.
Speaker 2:Mm-hmm and that's all you're doing is you just want to build rapport with the other person and You're not gonna do that with all these gimmicky Hybrow things that all these fancy companies and college professors are gonna tell you. We really find that crappy. Yep, hate that. Now I can't speak for every interview. I'm sure there's maybe 1% of the interviewers out there that love that highbrow stuff. I would never want to work for someone like that.
Speaker 1:But again, you creepy stock you know, like, read the room. If you, if you can, if you have an opportunity to do a little bit Of homework beforehand, you're gonna know in advance that that's the scene. You know, if it's a, if it's a video that you're gonna do this interview on or you're on a zoom call with them, then make sure you don't have, you know, all of your hygiene stuff in the background while you're. While you're interviewed, like make sure you do it in a living room or something like that. Make sure it's, it's, it's appropriate where pants? I mean, they won't know, but where pants anyway.
Speaker 2:But yeah, I mean, that's the thing. So I don't want to necessarily keep harping on that, but again, those are some of the really good tactics from someone who has hired quite a few people, who has been a hirer for many years and has worked with a lot of people coming in for those positions.
Speaker 1:So, if you're, if you're, if you're practicing this stuff, running through exercises, maybe ironing your shirt, or you know all these different things, and you know preparing yourself to go to this interview, and you were like you know what? I have a playlist that I just love listening to Because it just kind of gets me going, it amps me up. I'm ready to take on the world Because of this. Maybe you listen to the motivational channels on on YouTube. I'll link it in the above us on this. But you know, but, but, but.
Speaker 1:Sadly, all you have is your phone speaker. You don't have a speaker tied to it, so it's just kind of there and you can hear it, but you're like man, this would be epic if I could rock out with this. That'd be awesome, well, and, and you just don't have anything to do with it. So you're, you're sad, I get it, you know, potentially down down in the dumps because of this. Well, don't worry, because just a simple solution will rock your world.
Speaker 1:What is that? If you need to amplify your phone, put your phone in a glass jug and it will turn into a speaker, it'll turn into a megaphone. Basically, it amplifies. I've actually done this with a Dixie cup, a little like the big or whatever the Solo cup, like a red Solo cup. Put that in there and just it turns that system around and it starts amplifying. My wife got me a couple years ago for before. I was like why did you splurge on this when speakers are really cheap? But she got me an outside one that was just no electronics and it's a metal tin with like what's the little phone thing from like the old record players I can't remember what they called that like the phonograph, like the big flute looking thing that comes out.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, so it had like a little. It was a miniature version, but it had this little slot in the metal where you put your phone with the speaker down and it would come out that like legit powerful. I was like this is insane, that just a piece of metal shaped into a record player, whatever that's called I can't remember what it's called, but anyway, like the concept is the same, put it in a cup, put it in a jug. You're looking at amplification because that sound has to go somewhere and it's projecting bigger because that sound is getting a larger space for it to bounce off of before it heads out. So yeah, that's the science behind it. But really, just put it in a cup. Put it in a cup and you'll be able to rock out to your favorite playlist while you're ironing that shirt and practicing your interview questions.
Speaker 1:Don't spend the money on the speakers, yeah just drink the water and then put your phone. Just kidding, drink the water first, then the phone, not the other way around. It's terrible.
Speaker 2:Use a cup that has not had water in it yet. Yes, don't even risk it.
Speaker 1:Do you remember the Motorola Razors, the little-.
Speaker 2:Oh, yes, yeah, the little phones.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I went through like three of those because when I bought them I was like it's the coolest phone ever. I love how flat it is, it's tiny and anytime like I'd put it next to a glass of water and it was like I'm wet, I'm broken and I'm like what happened? Like nothing. I'm just next to this and it's gonna I swear it's gonna hurt me. So I don't know why, but every single time and it had in the back I swear Motorola did this on purpose it had a little dot indicator that was like if this shows that it's a different color, then it has water damage. And I'm like why would you do that? Like you're planning on this. I'm gonna go through these phones because of your marketing strategy, you greedy, anyway, that's totally rabbit trail. But so I don't know. Do you have anything else you wanna add before we wrap up for the day?
Speaker 2:No, just, you know, just be calm in those interviews. Yeah, it will really stand out Yep.
Speaker 1:Put your phone in a cup if you don't have speakers.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't think I'll be doing that one.
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Speaker 2:Check your shoes. Also, you have one overnight holiday scheduled. Keep avoiding that activity. Also be nice to your users. And, of course, only weekends that you can keep out of this resort.