Headliner Mindset

DAVID ALEXANDER - The Story, Legacy and Mission of ICON Collective

Nik Cherwink

David Alexander is the founder of ICON Collective, the world's #1 music production school and artist development program that helped launch the careers of NGHTMRE, Slander, Kayzo, Jauz, Sullivan King and countless more.

In this episode we go DEEP into talking about the purpose of being an artist, how ICON was created and what their mission is, the challenges we see many artists struggle with and much much more.

Follow ICON Collective here:
https://www.instagram.com/iconcollective
https://www.tiktok.com/@iconcollective

And visit my site to join the mailing list, book a free coaching call or get in touch:
https://www.nikcherwink.com

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why, why do you wanna create, that question really needs to be answered before you even delve into a creative career. I think the reason you create is to bring the transcendent. what's indescribable the vision of that to humanity? It's, it's a gift, you know, and when you give a gift, you don't expect anything in return. So to create art with an expectation of what, how it's gonna serve you. you're already losing because you've tainted what it is. You've, you've, you've created the wrong purpose, you know?

Nik:

What's up everybody? Welcome to the Headliner Mindset podcast. Today's guest is the founder of Icon Collective Music Production School. He is an insanely talented musician, a producer, an artist, a visionary, an entrepreneur, and someone who has been one of my greatest mentors in life and business. This is David Alexander.

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Thank you, Nick. How are you doing? It's so good to catch up with you. you.

Nik:

Dude. Yes, I am doing very well. I'm so excited to connect with you. You know, as I just mentioned, you really have been one of my greatest mentors in life. Like, I would not be, not only where I am, but who I am without having been a part of ICON for, you know, seven years. Like it's so drastically shaped. The way that I see the world and the way that I show up in the world. And you played such a massive role in that. So I'm really excited to introduce you to my audience and for us to just nerd out and go down the rabbit hole a little bit.'cause our conversations are always so juicy. So we get to get to share one of those with the, with the world today.

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I appreciate that, Nick. Yeah, our journeys have definitely been intertwined. They continue to be intertwined. And I think there's magic in that because what you look for is what you find, you know,

Nik:

Hmm.

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so I know that I've been looking for people that are, have an understanding of what it means to be an artist. people that are passionate about reaching into the transcendent and sharing something of value. I've been passion, passionate about nurturing those type of careers for many years. And you are too. So it's inevitable that we would be intertwined in this way. So it's equally a privilege. I'm happy to see what you're doing with your podcast. You're sharing knowledge. Uh, knowledge is powerful, but knowledge shared is incrementally powerful, even more powerful. So thank you for doing that.

Nik:

Yeah, man. Yeah. You know, speaking of knowledge, I do wanna share one of, I think the biggest things that. You shared with me at one point when I had just started working at Icon, it was pretty early on and I was stepping into a position where I was becoming the industry advisor. Was was the title I gave myself. I think that's a pretty cool title. But you know, there was a lot of me going out into the public and representing the company. I was going out and sort of being the face of Icon and I remember you telling me,'cause I came from. The traditional music business where I was working at record labels, I was working at Capital Records, I was working as a manager, and the vibe is a little bit different. It was a little bit more cutthroat, a little bit more like focusing on what can you get right? And I remember you sitting me down and you said, Nick, if you're gonna represent Icon and be the face of it in this way, then in every interaction I want you to lead. With what can I do for you? Don't go into this interaction thinking, what can I get from you? But I want you to think about and, genuinely ask how can I help you? How can I serve? And that was like a massive paradigm shift coming from where I had come from in the, in the music business where it was just all about what can I get from you? And, and it flipped things up on its head and, you know. I think since then I've been living that way, and it's been so incredibly rewarding to see what happens when you start to live that way. You know, you're just planting all of these seeds of service everywhere you go. How can I help you? How can I support you? Maybe you get something back, maybe you don't. But when you just become that kind of person, amazing things really unfold from that. So I, I share that story

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Awesome.

Nik:

and I just wanted to bring it up here because, uh, it was so profound for me. So thank you for that gift.

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You are welcome. I'm glad that's, uh. It turned out to be very productive for you, and it's still true today. Um, how can I be of service? a lot of times when you enter into relationships that may be business relationships, uh, both parties are there with an agenda. As you said, this is what I want from you. This is what you want from me. Let's negotiate. But to sit down and say right off the top, what are your friction points? What are your problems? Where are you stuck? Where do you feel like you can't find a solution? What are the challenges that you face? And then backing that up with how can I support you is ultimately powerful because the focus goes away from needs to You can bring a value to the table and once you do that, then it places the other position, person in the position to want to express what they can bring of value. I guarantee you nine times outta 10, what they come to the table with in terms of what they can bring of value is ultimately more, uh, rewarding than what you could ever thought that they could do to you that they could do for you. So opening the doorway to allowing them to have that first chance to do that is, is, uh, is is an ethic that's worked really well.

Nik:

A hundred percent. A hundred percent. So I'd love to start off. Hearing a little bit,'cause I know the story, but I'd love to share and have you share a little bit about the story of how Icon was created in the first place. From what I remember, you guys, you, I feel like you guys kind of saw, you guys almost had like a crystal ball. You kind of saw where things were going and so, so take me back to that when, when, you know, you decided like, Hey, let's, let's start this thing because there, there definitely was a void in the marketplace at that time that I think you caught onto.

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Yeah, I think we have to go back to where the first genesis began. I think it, we have to go back to 1992. When I was studying, keyboards, synthesizers, and pianos as a, as a, as a performance career, and I had the opportunity to do a study with Thomas Stoby, um, who's a UK artist, back from the eighties. he's still very active in music and education. I think he's leading, uh, a new media program at John John Hopkins University. So he's still very relevant, but. I did a six week tenure with him, just like a, a study, a mentorship, and he put me in front of a computer that had a visual representation of a violin recording as a wave file. And back in 1992, this wasn't standard. This is very cutting edge technology. And he took that wave file to the violin and he cut the wave file and placed the recording in different positions. And that just blew my mind because. It made me realize that computers would be the way of the future, and so as we progressed all the way to 2005, when we started the school, the education that was out there was based on educating technicians. Here's a board. Here's how you plug in a microphone. Here's how you set the levels. Here's how you make sure you don't distort on tape. This is how you control volume in a recording with a compressor. It's all these technical skills to make sure that what you're capturing is of a certain standard. But no one was educating artists on how to self-produce, how to self record, or even the mindset of being an artist. And I saw that big disconnect happening, um, in the late nineties. So I actually went to a very well-known music school and ideated the concept of a, a program for artists. They called it the recording artist. They started it, but then they called me like nine months later saying that they were struggling. I came back in and revamped the program, set up the labs, and about a year and a half in, I suggested that every student should have a laptop. They thought that was a higher point of entry, and it made me realize that they really didn't understand the principle. And at that point, I gave my two weeks resignation, and that's when Icon Collector was birthed. So it really was the genesis, the idea. Was that artists could be empowered to produce art market and distribute it independently of any record label independently of anyone having to, give them money to do it, to be, owing them a part of their career in the future. It was really a very rebel, independent approach. Um, and that, that in a, in a short way, that was the genesis of icon.

Nik:

And. You definitely could have taken that as a L. You could have taken it as a loss of you were trying to start this program with a different school. They didn't really understand it. They decided they didn't really want to do it. They didn't want to have people, you know, shift to lap laptops. You definitely could have said, oh, that sucks, and, and quit at that point, and you didn't. You went and said, Hey, I'm gonna, I'm gonna just do this myself, then Right. So what was driving you in that?'cause that's kind of a, a pretty big, pivotal moment and decision. What made you want to actually really step out on your own and do things on your own?

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Um, I think it's the same thing that drives any creative person in any endeavor. There's the internal belief that they have something of value to share, and that that what they're sharing is, I. Wharton just that inner belief that it had the potential to be very successful. And I was touring with artists at the time, traveling. A lot of the musical directors had studios, uh, in their homes. They were producing records, uh, while they weren't on tour. So I knew that it was, the proof of concept was there and that the computers would be changing everything, uh, very soon. So. It was a big leap of faith. we started the school with no money, just a belief. And it grew very organically, you know, and I think the success of the graduates is what really helped Catapult.

Nik:

how many students did you have in the first class?

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Our first class was 15 students, and the second class was five So it was, it was easy to get the first group, not as easy to get the second, but yeah, it, it took a while before we were somewhat, uh, stable and I do remember nine months and I took a screenshot of my bank account that had a dollar and 90 cents

Nik:

Yeah.

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know where the next dollar was coming from, but in that moment, I took that screenshot just to remind myself in the future that. You know, this is, this is a worthwhile mission, and that just doesn't define the possibility of what's gonna happen in the future. And, uh, I still, I still have that screenshot.

Nik:

That's so cool.'cause I, I know that there were some moments where it got real close, where it was like, oh, I don't know if we're gonna really still be able to do this thing. Right. Especially running a business that it requires space, it requires a facility. There's a lot of money that goes into the equipment and all of that. Right. It's not, I have a, I have a online business. My business barely cost me anything to run. So it's, it's not super heavy like that. And I know you guys had a few moments where. You had a dollar in the bank account, like what kept you going in that like,'cause that's another moment where you could have just, you could have walked away, but you kept going. So what was, what was keeping you in the game?

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I mean, at that point, when you have no other resources, you have to look at partnerships. That's really the only way you can survive. You can't do things alone. So, uh, whenever things get tough, you have to look around and say, who else is out there that can share this belief that might be willing to support? And how can this be mutually beneficial if we both pursue this belief? We were inside of a four city block complex called LA Center Studios third in Bixell downtown. They shoot some of the major movies. It's a really big complex, and they believed in us. They said, uh, we would love to have a music component here in the community. And, you know, we had a lease with them, uh, that was maybe four or five year lease. We were a year in and struggling. And I just went to them and said, Hey, there's another office that just opened up. They're building a recording studio. you know, give us an opportunity to partner with them. And I, you know, I guarantee that even though right now we don't have the rent for the next three months, that, uh, if you give us an opportunity, we can cover all those expenses and continue to be viable in the future. And even though it goes against anything a business person would do, and it goes against the contract and what you've signed on the dotted line, there's a bit of providence that steps in. When you, you know, have a, a, a belief and you feel like you have a mission. And in that instance, Providence stepped in. Not only did that facility agree to, um, give us some breathing room, but the other company allowed us to move in with them and they had a much better facility that we couldn't afford to build. It was so ironic that they moved into the same location that we were wanting to build, and they built recording studios and offices, and then they were hardly doing anything with it. So when we came in and said, you know, let's partner together to use the space, they agreed. So these are things that cannot be part of your strategic plan when you create a step by step idea of how are you gonna go from A to B. But this is part of getting to the end of the journey and not seeing three steps ahead, but committing to at least one step and allowing the next step to, to become clear. And that takes courage, that takes faith, and that is what a creative, successful lifestyle is about. It's about belief, it's about courage, and it's about faith. So, um, those are the guiding principles that have Allowed us to be success, successful and allowed the graduates that have come to our school to be successful as well.

Nik:

Totally, totally. Because you're being fueled by a really strong mission and there's energy behind that. It's, it's coming from the heart, like you said, it's courage, it's faith, it's passion, and. The mind doesn't necessarily have everything figured out. We wanna know the what. Right. And I think that's why we hold back. A lot of people hold back from really going for their dreams and their goals because the mind Can't necessarily come up with the game plan as it's like, I don't know how I'm gonna do this. And so we don't even try. But when you have that courage to step in and say, I don't really know how, but I'm still going to just put myself into it. Right. like that saying like if your why is strong enough, then, the how will present itself.

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Yeah.

Nik:

But, you have to have that courage to really put yourself out there. And, uh, you know, I think you guys also got a, you got creative too. Like, okay, well this door isn't open, so let's try a different door, or let's come in through the window, or let's come in through the ceiling. Like, what do we need to do? But let's, if, if that energy is there, the passion and the belief is there, you're gonna, you're gonna continue to, to move forward. And, and, and for sure. whatever that bigger universal force is that's out there will, will get, get your back sometimes and, and create miracles for you.

Track 1:

Yeah, absolutely. you just touched on something really important, which is that your mind doesn't know how. Not only does your mind always, it doesn't always know how, but your mind tells you that it's impossible. And that inner dialogue, I'd say, is probably 80% of why creatives fail because they allow that inner dialogue to take over and they associate it as being them. And that's not true. We all have that dialogue in our head. Even if you're, you know, if you're a chef or if you're a mechanic, or if you're a housewife, or if you're just a kid trying to make it through high school. We all have that voice that tells us that what we're doing is not good enough, that no one's gonna appreciate it, that it's a waste of time, that there's nothing but the abyss ahead, that, um, there's no way that this plan is gonna succeed and Just someone hearing that everyone has that voice and that you can actually state that that voice is not you. It's just part of your human condition, but it's not part of your spiritual knowledge. You can listen to that voice and say, okay, I acknowledge you. I know you live with me. You live with everyone, but you are not me. I've heard you. Thank you. Now I'm gonna tell my own story. And taking that power, uh, away from that voice while acknowledging it, uh, is a, is a skillset that I think is transcendent. That's what faith is about. That's what religion is about. You know, speaking to our prog problems, the way God wants us to speak to our problems, and not giving into the way we think about our problems, you know? and if there is such thing as truth, which I think there is, then the principles that apply to the knowledge of truth, apply. No matter what endeavor you're, you're, you're dealing with, whether it be family, your life, your career, and finding out what that truth is, is really powerful, especially when, when you're pursuing a creative artistic lifestyle. Because. What you're doing is you're tapping into the transcendent, finding something of value, recognizing it, and having the courage to share it with the world. there's that artist mindset that is so that, that is so important.

Nik:

I love that you mentioned it being part of the human condition, right? Because I love. The saying that we are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are spiritual beings having a human experience. And part of the human experience, and part of the human condition is that we have this little thing inside of our head that. It's just trying to keep us alive. It's trying to protect us. So that's why it's saying no, don't, don't go do anything big and crazy. Don't put yourself out there. You, you know, you might get rejected, you might get embarrassed. You might lose all your money. You might lose everything. No, stay here where it's safe, and that's always gonna be there, right? No matter it's always gonna be there. But like you said, it is a skillset to learn how to recognize that voice. Let me recognize it. Let me acknowledge it. Okay? What do you have to say? I'll listen to you. But do I need to actually, do what you say, right? Because I think that the, the truth, the

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or. believe or believe what you say.

Nik:

Yeah. Yeah. Right. And the truth, I, I believe, my belief is that, you know, we do have the, an authentic self, right? The authentic self is that you are this, you are a spiritual being. You are, and, and as a spiritual being, you have infinite potential and you are destined for greatness. And, and you are just a completely unstoppable, badass motherfucker, And like, that's the truth, right? So don't let that little, that little sabotaging voice get in the way and also understand it's like. It's just there to protect you. It's trying to help you

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it has a purpose and a lot of times, uh, you know, when you see crocodiles in the water, it's the same voice that tells you, don't go for a dip right now, you know,

Nik:

for sure.

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But, um, that requires a choice, right? You have to make a choice and. There's a lot of existential questions that I've been dealing with lately because I just, I think it's in, in everyone's nature to ask these questions, and one of them is purpose, and I think one of the reasons we're here is to make choices. You know, we have some very big choices to make about, I. You know, how we deal with problems, how we behave in, in tragedy, how we treat other people, uh, choices in what we choose to believe. What worldview are we gonna take? How do we espouse our lives through these choices? And I think free will is the greatest gift that we've been given. And if we can manage the power of exercising choice, uh, that someone aligned with some basic principles of truth, then. What a powerful skillset to, uh, to navigate your way through life, you know?

Nik:

Yeah, yeah. And it's hard, you know? I think this is what I've been thinking a lot about is, uh, the power of conditioning because for a lot of us, we were born into a certain family and a certain part of the world and, and, and we're surrounded by certain things and there's, there's, there's this constant conditioning of who are you surrounding yourself with and what are you listening to? What kind of content are you consuming? it's like if we want to have. This strong, powerful mindset where you believe in your potential and you make these powerful choices. it's not like a switch that gets flipped, like, oh, I just believe this now and I'm just locked in. Now. It's like, no, there, it's conditioning. It's like you gotta keep going to the gym. You can't just go to the gym one time and be like, okay, I'm, I'm cool. I, I, I'm consciously aware of these beliefs and now I'm gonna consciously change these beliefs. I'm just gonna be this way. It's such a process of repetition of we have to keep, we have to keep practicing.'cause it's like there's this, at least for me, that, you know, I think for most people there's like a natural gravitational pull back into kind of chaos, you know, it's like, oh no, let's, let's keep, we gotta keep working on ourselves. We gotta keep developing the mindset. It's not one and done, it's a continuous process of practice and conditioning.

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Exactly. And in order to, what is it, you know, that you're practicing, what is it you're conditioning for? This is true for artists too. There's always a higher ethic that you're shooting for. It's almost, it's almost like a standard of what's ultimately good, but almost unattainable. Because what if you do attain it? Then what's next? It's a syndrome that athletes get when they win their gold medals. They, everything about their life is getting that gold medal, and once they get it, all of a sudden. what's the next day about? What, what becomes their purpose then, you know, so that conditioning of maybe achieving an ethos of the good, you know, it goes back to, you know, like you said, the conditioning, the way you're brought up, the story that's been implanted in you by how people treat you and your experiences. That creates a story, whether you understand it or not. A story that you begin to believe about yourself and that story is being told by that voice again.

Nik:

Mm-Hmm.

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So to be able to really look at yourself the way God sees you is very powerful because he doesn't see you, uh, as controlled by your circumstances. He sees you in a very different light. so to believe that and, and to not listen to that inner dialogue and, and, and, you know, tell your own story, and tell the story the way that God sees you is very very powerful. You know,

Nik:

Yeah. Well, I love that we are fully in the deep end right now

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where else is there to go?

Nik:

there's No, that's why I brought you on. I was like, yeah, we're going, we're, me and David know how to go deep. So I hope everyone's keeping up with this because this is also something that I see a lot in my coaching and, you know, I mean, I've personally coached over a hundred something artists myself, and then I mean, thousands more that I was, you know, teaching and mentoring at at Icon, and. There is a lot of truth to be said, and it's probably, it's not just artists. I think it's almost anybody that's trying to achieve anything in, in, in a lot of ways, but especially for artists. A lot of the story underneath, if we really pull the layers back, and, and again, this is for everybody, but artists have their own flavor to it, but there's a story of, I'm not enough. I'm not enough in some way. And so if I go on to become really successful as an artist, I will get love, I'll get attention, I'll get praise, I'll get validation. Right? And this is the dangerous slippery slope because we, we all have an ego, we all have wounds. We you know, a lot of us have, have this not enoughness stuff, you know, it can be somebody out there just chasing money or chasing materials or whatever. I think it's something really important to look at as an artist is like having brutal honesty about why am I on this

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Mm-Hmm.

Nik:

Because there's a fine line and a slippery slope when the ego starts to get too involved and it becomes about, I am, I need the praise, I need the worthiness, I need the validation. Once I achieve, this goal, then I'll be enough. And we've seen it time and time again though. How many artists. they've achieved all the goals in the world, they're killing it, and they're still not happy. They're still miserable. Right. And so that's where I really try to guide artists to really shifting into looking at like, you know, how much is that true and where is the sense of validation in this process for you And, and what else could it be about, you know.

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I mean,

Nik:

you know, authenticity, like, I don't know, it's self-discovery. There's other things that the artist's journey can be about, but that ego's a tricky little motherfucker.

Track 1:

absolutely. And that. That whole conversation of why, why do you wanna create, that question really needs to be answered before you even delve into a creative career. It's one of the questions that we ask at Icon as part of our admissions process, because if someone says, I wanna play main stage and I want to have 80,000 people fist bumping, and that's, that's my goal. it is a goal, but it's not really the purpose of art. You know, uh, I think the reason you create is to bring the transcendent. what's indescribable the vision of that to humanity? It's, it's a gift, you know, and when you give a gift, you don't expect anything in return. So to create art with an expectation of what, how it's gonna serve you. you're already losing because you've tainted what it is. You've, you've, you've created the wrong purpose, you know? and there's a lot of people that have argued excellently on either side about this point, but, um, I truly believe you need to, you need to start with your why. Why am I doing this? You know? yeah, there's a lot to unpack there, but we'll leave it there.

Nik:

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Well, and I also, I like to kind of play both sides and

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Because you have to have goals, right?

Nik:

'cause yeah. It's like you still, like, you're always gonna have an ego. You're always gonna want. Cool shit. And you're always gonna want valid. Like it's always gonna be there, you know? So it's, I think it's, it's not like, let's get rid of it, you know? I like to. I learned so much about duality from, you know, teaching, teaching at, at icon, right? The masculine energy and the feminine energy. And I kind of bring that, that feminine energy is like, well, that's just, that's the flow. That's the, I'm gonna open myself up and just be the vessel and channel the creativity of the universe and be completely unattached to it and just follow wherever it wants to go. And I love that.

Track 1:

Yeah.

Nik:

Yeah, and there's masculine energy, which is like, I got a fucking clear goal and I'm building a plan, and there's, there's structure to it and it's like it's, it's the energy of pushing and grinding. It's like when you can master both of those energies and learn how to dance between them and learn how to utilize them in the right time and place, you know, it's the synergy of both of those that we really, I think, get to step into our greatest power.

Track 1:

Yeah. You know, for artists, there's, I feel like there's three pillars that need to be well supported in education. That would be, first of all, musicality, you have to be proficient in your art form. Um, then there's the mindset, which we've been talking about a little bit, and then there's technical prowess. You have to know how to describe your ideas in a very, you know, using technical tools to bring those to life for other people.

Nik:

Mm-Hmm.

Track 1:

art is a transmission of an idea through multiple mediums, which every iteration of that medium loses a little bit of the potency of what you're trying to describe. So you have to be so purposeful and intentful so that when you put your art out there, if people receive, if you put 150% intention behind it, you know, hopefully when people. Receive 60% of your message. It, it hasn't been diluted by the format in which it's been presented, whether that be a culinary dish or looking at a painting or hearing a melody. So I think those three things are very needed. Um, musicality the mindset and the technical prowess.

Nik:

Yeah.

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And, and of course all those are banded together by community because you, you can't do anything alone.

Nik:

I was just gonna bring that up as well, because those are the, I see the three foundational pillars of what icon really is and offers, right? The, the musicality, the mindset, the technology, and then yeah, that's definitely the. The fourth pillar, or as you said, the thing that ties them all together, that, that community part of it.'cause you know, I was gonna ask, what do you think it is that has made so many people from iCONN so successful? And I'll, I'll just throw in the community part of it like that. I think that's so massive. When you are surrounded by other people that have the same mission and they're ambitious and they're really getting after, in the same way, it's, it's only inevitable that that. Energy is gonna rub off on you and it's gonna be multiplied. Um, but what else? What else do you think it is? Obviously, you know that that community part of it is massive, but

Track 1:

it's really important, I actually call it collective knowledge because imagine you've got 300 people from all over the country, all over the world that have made a commitment to their art, and they're, passionate about it for the right reasons. So they show up and they see each other in the hallway. You know, one person spent the last eight hours researching this micro topic and so did the other person. But when they get together and they talk about it in 10 minutes, they've shared with each other what took them collectively 16 hours of research. You multiply that times 300 people times 365 days, times what the length of their relationship. That's exponentially powerful. You know, it's the same thing that you see in YouTube communities where, let's pick a topic dancing where there's a community of people that are, you know, passionate about dancing, and they're posting videos, they're learning from each other, and the whole culture is collectively getting better and progressing because they're educating each other. So that collective knowledge that you receive by surrounding yourself, by like-minded people is, is really, really powerful. And that's. That's just one aspect, right? That's knowledge that doesn't talk about support, that doesn't talk about belief, that doesn't talk about synergy and goals and plans and, and the ability to be of service to each other in the future in one way or another. So that's really powerful. Yeah.

Nik:

and there's a little bit of a paradox with the community aspect, which I think is worth mentioning because also being surrounded by so many people, it can be sometimes easy to, I. Lose yourself. Right? How do you stay true to your voice and your belief and your sound when you're also, when you're in community and there's all these other ideas and it's, you're, yes, you're learning so much, but also at the same time, and I've seen it before, you can get sucked into like, oh, well this is kind of what every, this is what everyone's making and this is what's cool, and, and then you can kind of get sucked into that, right? So I think it's important that, again, that duality of having that balance of, you know, uh. Being totally plugged in, and then also being completely on your own island too, and being like, all right, I know how to really listen to myself and get the best out of both worlds. I think that's a tricky balance to find.

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It is a tricky balance and I think people struggle with it even more as they, uh, begin to attain success. Uh, because their previous success has to surpass, uh, I mean the forward-looking success has to surpass the previous success. And then that comes the pressure. And the pressure is for other people to accept it and other people to like it. And that really clouds what you're doing as an artist. Um, that way when you, you know, in that regard, if you go back to thinking about it as a gift that you're giving, that you are, uh, that you're giving to the transcendent, that you're presenting to God because. Who gave you these talents and who gave you this desire, it came from source. So when you take a talent and you give it back, it becomes a gift. And if you can focus on that and you can stay true to your own metric of why you're creating it, of does this create an aesthetic that pleases me, not pleases someone else? That's the first benchmark to knowing that you're doing the right thing for the right reasons. And again, that's a choice. There are times where you have to compromise, or the label gives you feedback, oh, you gotta chop this down by two minutes. Or, you know, the build is not heavy enough, or We don't like the lyric that's happening here. I mean, at every point you have to measure all those choices against your inner knowledge of what, of the reason why you're creating. That takes courage because not everyone's gonna agree with it, but it's not there for people to agree. It's not there for you to decide who's gonna be attracted to it. Your job is to do it and to put it out and then let it have its own life.

Nik:

yeah. That's why I always say there's a difference between being a producer and an artist. A producer is the math and science, and it's intellectual. There's a, there's a formula to music, there's a math and a science, and, and a great producer can say, oh, okay, I this style of music at this PPM with this kind of vibe and energy. Cool. I can make that. And they can, they can chop it up and they can make it. And there's amazing producers out there. And being an artist is a, that's, that's the heart and soul, right? That's the self-expression, that's the being the vessel and channeling the energy and, and. Creating something that is really like, you know, pure and unique and from a deeper part of you and, and again, when you can bring those together, right? It can be an amazing producer. I got, I got the intellectual math and science, you know, that technical side, the musicality side of it, but also being able to tap into what what wants to come through me, what wants to come through, and from my heart and soul. You know, I think that's a great question to ask is like how do you tap into that? As an artist and even just as a, as a, as a person, how do you tap into that deeper part of yourself to actually really hear what's in there and feel what's in there?

Track 1:

a. Again, it takes faith and courage and belief. And where do ideas come from? Nick? One minute you don't have an idea. The next minute you have an idea. Where did that come from? You know that that came from the transcendent, you know? Um, creative people have to create, if they don't create, they stagnate, they're compelled to, they have to express what they see as beautiful. They have to bring beauty to the world, you know, even if that beauty is masked in distortion and, you know, aggressive sounds, you know, nine Inch Nails. Trent Resner is one of my favorite artists because he found beauty in what other people would consider it to be. Damaged audio. Uh, but he, but, but he's, but he saw the beauty and the damage, you know,

Nik:

Yeah. you should hear all the death metal I listen to every day, man.

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right.

Nik:

Yeah.

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But at some point, at some point, you have to make a choice, and you have to, you have to trust your ethic of what you find valuable. and it takes courage to. point your finger at something and say, this has value and I believe it has value, and it has value to me. And then to present that, you know,

Nik:

do you think that that is found by just creating more. Just going deeper into your creative process or, or is it also like outside of the studio and just in life and being human?

Track 1:

It's a reflection of your life. You know, you're influenced by everything, by every circumstance, every interaction, every movie, every book, every song, every conversation. It all has a fingerprint on how you experience this. And, um, only 12 notes. They've all been played before. Uh,

Nik:

Good point.

Track 1:

but I think electronic music, for me is, is very interesting because there's sound design behind it as well. I. There's something magical about thousands of kids in a bedroom experimenting with a tool. And out of that comes something beautiful and of value. And pop culture looks down and says, that's interesting. And they sprinkle it on top of pop culture and it propels the culture forward. there's a passion, there's a need that people have to create that are passionate about music. You know, they, they're compelled to, they have no choice. They, it's part of their nature. I.

Nik:

Yeah, I like that you bring that up because if a Creative person has that need, and I resonate with that. I get that it's like they can't not create, I do see a lot of people that struggle with creating. I do see a lot, a lot of people that struggle with sitting their ass down and, and getting the work done. And it makes me question, okay, well then why are you doing it? Right? Like, is it coming from. I want this to become successful. I want this to be accepted. I want to launch my career, and I want to be a, you know, a big famous dj. And, you know, again, after my thousands of conversations and interactions with people, there's a good amount of that out there, right? But I like that you point out, you know, how, you know, for, for people that are in it for a different reason, it's like you can't not do it right.

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you, you have a lot of knowledge because you've, you've mentored a lot of artists, so for the people that are listening right now, what would you say are some of the top two reasons that people struggle? What, what do you find most that they're not aware of, that you, that you bring to their awareness?

Nik:

I think it comes back to this first, this idea of, of purpose. I think, uh, a lot of people are Very focused on the result rather than the process, right? And it's like the process is sitting down and making music and having fun and enjoying it and expressing yourself and experimenting and playing. That's when you create really cool shit So if that's, if that, if you're struggling with that part of it, then something's off, right? And most likely it's because you're attached to the result.

Track 1:

that is so well said.

Nik:

I need to make this music because I have to become a successful artist, and I have to get signed to this label, and I have to build my audience. And then it's all this need and this have to, and this should starts to build a lot of pressure and a lot of blocks. Right. And it's

Track 1:

That's all, That's all, judgment.

Nik:

all judgment.

Track 1:

Yeah. You begin, you begin to judge every decision and say, is this what's gonna get me there? when when you're in a creative state, there is no judgment. You're just, you're just creating for the joy of it, you know?

Nik:

Exactly that joy, that play that fun and, and that expression. Like maybe it's, maybe it's not fun. Maybe it's heavy, maybe it's sad, maybe it's dark, maybe it's ugly, you know? Okay. But, But, like, it's like that inward journey into yourself rather than the outward journey of trying to get yourself somewhere. It's like. Being so in tune with where you're at right now, right? Rather than being stuck in this future place that you're trying to get yourself to. The minute you start going there, you're lost. You know? That's where, that's where a lot of the, the blocks happen,

Track 1:

Yeah, there is no destination. You know, uh, that's, that's something I see a lot of artists struggle with. this idea that I will be an artist if and when a, B and C happens, or I will be an artist when I sell these many, or I will be an artist when I play this stage. Or no, you are an artist way before any of that happens. And if you don't recognize that, if you don't recognize it, how do you expect other people to recognize it?

Nik:

Yeah, and that success gets tied up in all of that as well. It's like, I will be successful when I headline my first show. I will be successful when I get to this place. And again, success is not a destination. Success is a process. Successes I produced for two hours today. that's a success. Success is I sent my song out to three record labels today. That's success

Track 1:

Yeah. And re and receiving three nos on that day is also success. Because Because success is perseverance,

Nik:

Yeah, you're in, you're in the game and, and this is one of the biggest traps I think, that I see people fall into as well, is they are very attached to these bigger goals. I'll be successful when I'm a full-time artist. I'll be successful when I'm touring. I'll be successful when I have a manager. And so, okay, if that's when you'll be successful, then what does that mean about right now? Does that mean? That means you're unsuccessful. That means you're a failure. And so you're walking around every day feeling unsuccessful, feeling like a failure, and you're trying to be creative from that place.

Track 1:

It is not gonna happen. You're not gonna convi if you, like I said, if you can't convince yourself, no one else is gonna buy it either,

Nik:

Yeah. And, and so a lot of my work that I do is getting people to be in the energetic state that is best going to serve them, right? I want you to be in the energetic state of excitement. I want you to be in the energetic state of inspiration. I want you to be in your spirit, right? I want you to be in the energetic state of celebration and gratitude, and that's all stuff that you have control over.'cause that's all has to do with what you're focusing on. Remember that that little voice inside the head is gonna look at all the things that you don't have yet and how you're too old and you should have started when you were younger and everybody else is better than you. And you're never gonna make this happen if you are not skilled enough. That that little gremlin mind starts to pull you off course. Well, that's what you're gonna focus on and that's what you're gonna feel. Basically. You're gonna feel like shit and you're not gonna be able to create that much stuff. So a lot of like, my whole process really is like, yo, let's focus on the wins. Let's focus on these things. Let's celebrate the shit outta every single little step of the way, and let's feel good and let's get excited. Because not only are you gonna make have better results, but life is just a little bit better. You're gonna enjoy life more, you know?

Track 1:

Yeah. Let's talk about intuition a little bit because that's also an important part of the, the creative path that we're pursuing, right? There's many times, uh, in your career where you're gonna have an intuition to do something that seems so minimal and so insignificant that that voice will tell you that's not gonna do nothing for you. Like, don't listen to that. But actually those intuitions, to do those things that seem. insignificant that they're not gonna get you anywhere, may be your destiny. That may be exactly the thing you need to be doing, you know, and out of that comes, uh, the ability for the transcendent to step through because you've, you've listened to that voice and it, it allows those doors to open. It's really hard to quantify that, but, um, I'll give you an example of that. In, in my life when I was, uh, producing electronic music, I'd finished a three song ep and I just wanted to hear it played in a club. As I'm driving down the 10 freeway, I said, how does this get played in the club? Well, I guess, you know, I'm dating myself. We're going back to the nineties when there were like vinyl stores on Coga, right? So, well, I guess a DJ walks into a store and they pick up a track and they played it in the club. So I said, great. Tomorrow I'm gonna look up a record store and walk in and say, here's some new electronic music. If anyone comes in asking for new electronic music, just give it away for free. I'll come back a week later and get feedback on on it. What's that gonna do for anyone's career? Absolutely nothing really. Right? But because I had that intuition, I just committed to doing it. Uh, asked for the manager, he seemed okay with it. And then three days later, I get a phone call. Uh, you know, they, they asked me for the artist's name, is this such and such? And I said, yes. Who is this? Oh, this is floating. I'm promoter from Romania. We're producing MTV Spring Break, Romania on the beaches of the Black Sea. We want you to come perform. I'm like, I've never released a record before. What are you talking about? And as it turns out, these promoters were given the opportunity to do the first MTV Spring break and Romania.

Nik:

Wow.

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so they had an inspiration of wanting to bring American talent and their inspiration was, Let's fly to Hollywood. Go to a vinyl store and ask and ask a manager what is, what is the new electronic music right now? So they walked in and they said, we're looking for new electronic music. I had just left an hour ago. He handed to my cd. Three weeks later, I was in the beaches of the Black Sea playing for MTV Spring Break. So.

Nik:

so good. What an incredible story.

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intuition, uh, listening to that little voice. You know, the thing that tells you to do something that may seem really insignificant if you try to explain it to someone else, but don't ignore it. That's, that's God's showing you your path, you know?

Nik:

Yep. It's that, that little calling, that little, and this is the, this is the skillset, I think, is to be able to learn how to differentiate, you know, between the, what I call, you know, the, the sabotaging voice. The gremlin voice, but what your actual intuition and, you know, it comes from a different place. It comes more from your, from your gut.

Track 1:

It's so, it's obedience Nick, is what I, as I'm thinking about it, you know,

Nik:

Mm-Hmm. You learn. I mean, I've, I've, I've been very blessed to learn how to recognize my intuition and like where it comes from and what it feels like and what it sounds like. I feel like I've, since a young age, I've been able to tap into that, but a lot of that has also been from the moments where I haven't trusted it. You have that feeling, you have that, that gut feeling to do something or maybe don't do something and then you don't listen to it and then you get burned and you know like, oh. And then you know, you look back and you're like, shit, I should have, I should have trusted myself, really. Right. And so then you just start following those little universe, nudges, those little whispers and they take you to some cool places.

Track 1:

It's obedience. You know, uh, you could say, uh, I have this intuition to do something that may seem insignificant. But I'm not gonna do it because I don't believe it's gonna gimme results. But the flip side is that is I'm gonna do it because I want to be obedient to God. I want to be obedient to the transcendent. I want to be obedient to source just to honor it, you know? Not because I'm expecting anything in return, just because I wanna honor it. And when, when you take that mindset of obedience and you act on those intuitions and those nudges that you're receiving. That is your path. That is your path. No, no one can walk your path. That's the other thing about being an artist. You're not a lawyer following a set of, of, uh, of processes that are gonna get you from education to a job, to a career that multiple people have followed in the, in the, in the past. Um, there's a path that's set aside only for you that you have to chop down and you have to walk through. and, uh, yeah, it's, it's interesting. Intuition and obedience.

Nik:

Yeah. No, and that's so important to remember that. There is not a template. Even choosing to be an artist. You can get into this sort of machine of being an artist or being a dj, and it's like, well, this is what it's supposed to look like. I'm supposed to get, you know, build my social media and then get releases on these labels and I'm supposed to go play at these clubs and then I'm supposed to play at these festivals. And there actually is already a template laid out that you think you're supposed to go on, and that might not be your path. That's okay. And for every artist that is doing that, there's 20 other artists that maybe you've never heard of that are doing really cool shit, that are playing a show on the Black Sea in Romania right now. you know, that are, that are doing other things. And I think that's an important part to remember is that it doesn't have to look like what everybody else is doing, even, even as an artist. And that. We live in an infinitely abundant universe in reality, where you can create your own lane. And so really trusting that and listening to that. And I mean my, my Path is a great example of that where, you know, I was working at major labels and I was working at, you know, I was working at Capital Records. I had a office in the Famous Capitol Records building, and I remember looking across the street and seeing. Avalon and seeing, you know, with the control parties and just, there's like this feeling of this in intuition. I was like, I wanna be over, I wanna be doing that. You know, and just following that little breadcrumb and then,

Track 1:

That's where I met you. I met, I met, I met you backstage at Avalon. You know?

Nik:

Yep. Yep. And then, You know? from there I went and I was working with, um, I was working with the manager of the Black Eyed Peas and Pasquale from Insomniac. Next thing I know, and within a couple months I had somehow finagled my way into working with the biggest promoter in the entire country. You know, I remember having dinner talking about a hundred million dollar offer that he was getting for his company. I was just like, how did I get here? Right? But. Even in that, um, that was when I had also connected with you guys and I was like, you know what? It, that feels right. This thing over at iCONN feels right and you know, even though there's this really, I'm doing this really cool stuff. I'm getting flown to Vegas and put in up, put up in the hotel for EDC and all this cool shit. I was like, my, my intuition is telling me to go in this other direction and I wanna go see what's going on over, over here and trusting that. And then obviously, like I said at the beginning of the call, you know. Icon changed my life icon, completely changed my life. And then even in that process, it was like, wait, there's this coaching thing coming up now and like what's, what's this thing that's presenting itself? I didn't come up with that intellectually. I didn't plan that in my mind, that was just the universe continuing to push me in these different directions and having the courage to say, Hey, I'm gonna go see what's over here. Let's go see what that's about. And it's fucking worked out pretty well, man.

Track 1:

Yeah, it's uh, it takes a lot of courage to pursue. Pursue a life of intuition and creativity, but it's, it can be. So it is very, very rewarding. I wouldn't change it for anything.

Nik:

Yeah, it's done done pretty well for you as well. You've done some cool stuff following your intuition.

Track 1:

Yeah. Um,

Nik:

Yeah,

Track 1:

I'm wondering what my next intuition's gonna be.

Nik:

I, I was just gonna ask Yeah. Is there any current poll or calling, any new visions and ideas that are coming through for you?

Track 1:

Uh, at this stage of my life, uh, I do want to continue to be of service. I mean, I'm, I'm living somewhere where it's kind of remote and I do feel like I can be of, of service where I am right now. Uh, so it's really interesting to pursue that. I think art. It's gonna continue to involve, especially when it comes with AI and it comes to all these new tools that are coming to the table. it's gonna change the way we do education. It's gonna, it is gonna change the way people create music. Um, I think a lot more people are gonna have access to the same tools, but at the end it's gonna come down to the choices, right? And then how do we, how do we select the right choices? Same thing with like chat, GPT. it's there to provide you whatever you ask.

Nik:

Yeah.

Track 1:

If you know the right questions to ask, you're gonna get the desired results. But if you're, if you're not asking the right questions for the right reasons, you're, you're not gonna get the right results. So, regardless of what tools you're faced with, it comes back to this fundamental principle of choice, right? How are you gonna exercise your choice, um, and teaching people how to do that. In a way that's authentic, that ignores the trappings of making choices for the wrong reasons and, and, and sharing what some of those principles are. I think that's never gonna go away.

Nik:

Yeah, Yeah, it's wild. It's wild to think about where where things are going. Right? And, and it's like at the end of the day, as much as technology evolves and all of these, you know, platforms emerge and music industry changes. At the core of all of it is our humanness. Our desire to feel something and our desire to connect and to be connected. And I think regardless of what happens with technology and ai, it's like, and I think, I honestly think even as that grows more, I think that we're actually gonna have a deeper craving.'cause we're probably gonna get less of it. Of like, I actually just really want raw, authentic connection. I want humanness as the world becomes a little bit less and less human perhaps,

Track 1:

It's our relationship.

Nik:

Yeah.

Track 1:

It's our relationship, you know. And relationship love requires choice. You can't have love without a choice, you know?

Nik:

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I love you from the bottom of my heart. You are one of the most amazing humans I've had the privilege of crossing paths with on this fun rollercoaster of life, and

Track 1:

Thank you. Yeah. You really honor me with those words, but I just, um, I. Just a culmination of, you know, the support that I've had by multiple, multiple people. So all I can say is thank you. You know, you're still, you still have a fingerprint on what we're doing at Icon and you still, you still have a fingerprint on what the future is gonna be doing there at the schools. So.

Nik:

We are, we are still on the same mission, you know, just, just running side by side in, in our own lanes and, uh, yeah, couldn't be more happy to, to share that mission with you. So thank you so much for taking the time to come on today and share your, your wisdom. Uh. We used to call you at, at uh, icon. Everyone used to call you Yoda.'cause you were like, you were like the wise the wise Yoda of of icon. I dunno if they call you that anymore, but

Track 1:

still a little, there's still a little Yoda in Studio

Nik:

Oh yeah. Okay. Good, good. I love it man. Well thank you so much for taking the time to come on today brother.

Track 1:

Nick, continued success and, um, a little shout out to everyone at Icon that lends their talent and their skills to Gotti these artists. Um. I love you guys. Thank you for your support through all these years, and here's to, uh, 2024 and beyond.

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