Au5 is a true music production wizard, starting at just 9 years old and since releasing hundreds of songs. He has carved out his own unique lane and sound in the bass music scene, collaborating with major artists like Slander and releasing regularly on top labels like Ofelia Records and Monstercat.
In this episode we get deep and philosophical, discussing topics like worthiness, creative energy and flow. We also explore his production process, how he's been able to make so much music and relationship between an artist, their brand and their audience/community.
Follow Au5 here:
https://www.instagram.com/au5_official
https://www.tiktok.com/@au5_official
https://twitter.com/au5music
And visit my site to join the mailing list, book a free coaching call or get in touch:
https://www.nikcherwink.com
Au5 is a true music production wizard, starting at just 9 years old and since releasing hundreds of songs. He has carved out his own unique lane and sound in the bass music scene, collaborating with major artists like Slander and releasing regularly on top labels like Ofelia Records and Monstercat.
In this episode we get deep and philosophical, discussing topics like worthiness, creative energy and flow. We also explore his production process, how he's been able to make so much music and relationship between an artist, their brand and their audience/community.
Follow Au5 here:
https://www.instagram.com/au5_official
https://www.tiktok.com/@au5_official
https://twitter.com/au5music
And visit my site to join the mailing list, book a free coaching call or get in touch:
https://www.nikcherwink.com
didn't even know about like affirmations or mantras or anything like that back then. But like, I remember there were times like in middle school where I was like, just like staring at myself in the mirror saying like, I fucking got this. I'm gonna fucking do this. Like,'cause I was like angry and frustrated by someone like putting me down. I was like, felt like that kind of self-empowering thing, like having that belief in yourself really can make a huge difference in like what sort of opportunities you allow into your life and kind of just how you, how you tackle life.
Nik:up everybody? Welcome to the Headliner Mindset podcast. Today's guest is a true production wizard and an artist who has been creating his own unique lane in the EDM world. His songs have gotten tens of millions of plays on Spotify, and he's regularly releasing on labels like Monster Cat and Seven Lions, Ophelia Records. This is a U five,
Track 1:All right. Thanks for the intro. Nick
Nik:my man. Thank you for joining us today. I'm so excited to have you on the podcast. I was just sharing with you that I had our mutual friend, uh, Wyatt on the, uh, Dawn Nation episode, someone that with to do some production courses with, and he was like, you gotta get Austin on. You gotta talk to this guy. So I'm excited that we can make it happen.
Track 1:Yeah, absolutely. Me too. Thanks, Wyatt.
Nik:Yeah, Wyatt's the man. Shout out Wyatt. Uh, if y'all haven't checked out that episode, really, really great one. Uh, you know, I saw you post something on Instagram the other day, it was very, very much aligned with course that I used to teach at Icon Collective Music Production School called The Art of Flow, is pretty much all about how to tap into authentic creativity, how to just be the vessel for inspiration. And you posted something and I was like, this guy gets it. I don't remember what it was exactly, but whatever it was, I was like, this is exactly what we used to teach over at Icon and, and, and what they still teach at Icon, which is all about, you know, authentic expression as an artist. So as soon as I saw you post that, I was like, all right, yo, come, come get on the podcast. We, we gotta have a chat. So, um,
Track 1:That is really cool.
Nik:dive into the deep end with you today.
Track 1:All right. Just to be transparent, I didn't even know that you were a teacher at Icon and I did not know that that was even a class let alone that you teaching that I'm not, that I, I'm honestly not that familiar with, um, other stuff that you've, that you've done. So that's actually really cool to hear. This is the first time I actually like, that
Nik:Totally, man. Well, yeah, you know, this is our first
Track 1:it's quite appropriate.
Nik:is, um, which is always fun for me. You know, I've, I've had a, I've had a lot of other podcasts guests on that are like, you know, industry friends or artists that I've known for 10 years. And so it's been us catching up. then and then I get someone that like We don't even know each other, each other at all. So we get to learn a little bit about each other through this time. yeah, just to give you a little background on myself, you know, I kind of came in from the business side of things. I started my career at Capital Records, outta college and worked in the PR department there, in love with dance music. Became a, became a manager, um, was managing artists for a while. And then I met the owners of Icon Collective. And, you know, as much as I loved music, I also had a passion for personal development. So I was always really into, you know, Tony Robbins and reading all the self-help books. And so when I, met the owners of Icon, they invited me to teach, uh, a music business course there. So I was always very much the business guy,
Track 1:Mm-Hmm.
Nik:At the same time, I was always teaching a lot of the mindset stuff. I was always teaching a little bit more of like how to be, you know, emotionally grounded and how to have, you know, a positive mindset and all that kind of stuff. And, has a course yeah, called The Art of Flow, which is where things really shifted. For me. I kind of went from being the business guy to more being like the woowoo spiritual guy.
Track 1:Yeah. Yeah.
Nik:yeah, that's, that, that then eventually led into me, um, you know, like becoming a really, like a life coach for artists. They started asking for it. So that's my bio in, in 30 seconds or less.
Track 1:Yeah, that's, that's really cool. I just wanna say, I feel like that is a, like those two avenues balance each other because I feel like like doing business, being in an industry which is like this artificial system it's noisy and it's so easy to kind of like lose your nature in that kind of environment. And I think particularly western culture normalizes that like, be productive, like do like focus on extrinsic things, shit done. like, be overly aware of like who you are as an asset to the world or to others. And I think, yeah, for, especially for like artist types who require that type of, that sort of, emotional sensitivity to, to like subtle, more subtle energy. it's so easy to get ungrounded because you're sensitized in such a, of potentially violent, energetically speaking environment.
Nik:Yeah. Yeah.
Track 1:I'm curious what gravitated you towards, going from the industry to, to like more, uh, like self-help stuff.
Nik:Yeah, man, I, for me, it was all intuition. was all just a gut feeling of me just ha, it was just a feeling. It was just like in my core, literally in my gut. Uh, it was pulling me in that direction. And it was also the feeling of misalignment that I would have, like even me going to Icon, actually, after Capital, after I worked at Capital, I was managing, went from Looking across the street from Capitol Records at like the big nightclub Avalon and being like, oh, I like, want to get into that industry. And then six months later I was working like side by side with Pasquale helping launch the discovery project. I went from like zero to a hundred and was in the sort of upper echelon of the EDM space. And when I got there and I was there, it was like something just didn't feel I was like, okay, I'm, I'm, I got what I asked for,
Track 1:mm-Hmm.
Nik:it's still not it. And there's something else that's pulling me, there's something else that's calling me. And so it was like, when I met the owners of Icon, it was like, it's all, it was all just frequency and resonance. It was like, oh, this feels better. And so I, over there, but then even when I was there, was like I was still kind of being the industry guy, the music business guy. And then it was more like, you know what this other, I don't know, woowoo, self-help, spiritual shit is just pulling me and calling me. And so it was this constant journey of tapping into that feeling and just being like, what? What feels right? You know? And then, and then the big thing is having the courage to leave behind what is normal and comfortable
Track 1:Mm-Hmm.
Nik:take that risk. And there was a lot of those, like at milestone moments, you know, every couple years. It's like shedding skin, leaving behind the norm.
Track 1:Oh, oh, yeah. Yeah. I can very much relate to that. That's that I think that is, it's a good sign. I don't think that that's something that ever really ends. You know, I feel like if it's, if you're not if you're not shedding something, then you're also not growing.
Nik:Yeah. do you, what do you feel like you have shed over the years and on your journey as a, as an artist and as a human?
Track 1:Wow. All right. Going right, going real deep, real quick. and broad too. I've, man, I mean, I'm trying to think of like what the overarching themes have been. Ah, I guess I'll start with more recently, like this past year has been probably one of the most transformative years of my life, just because I am, I just feel like so many things are happening and I'm understanding myself better than ever before. I think, like, for instance, this past year, a huge theme has been, like listening to myself, like trusting my intuition
Nik:Yeah.
Track 1:being open and forward about.
Nik:I.
Track 1:Basically just being open and communicative about what is true for me. that's been something that has been actually really hard for me to get in touch with, particularly in the presence or in the environment of others. grew up an only child and that is I having solitude and being alone and from everyone else is where I've always felt like could actually hear my, myself and my inner voice.
Nik:yeah. to be able to have that solitude and silence and tune out the other voices, otherwise, yeah, it's so noisy and you can't hear yourself.
Track 1:absolutely. And I think most of my life I've kind of gone about being someone who is like, kind of ashamed of like. Disagreement or, or like saying no, or, my mind to the point where if I were in the presence of other people's energy, especially if they're like intense vibes, I would confuse my own feelings for theirs or rather vice versa. I would confuse like what they were feeling my own, and I wouldn't actually know what is true for me. So I just felt like I was kind of being mutable and adaptable. Uh, and then I, at the end, I, I would feel sometimes I would feel really drained and I'd be like, I'm, I guess I'm just like an introvert. what I'm realizing this past year, particularly like doing a lot of like, self-awareness and self-help basically, is that I only feel drained when I am putting, when I'm using the energy to put up a facade or when I'm doing something that doesn't actually truly align with me. And that's when I realized like I. That is actually the thing that I'm avoiding is actually the thing that indicates to me what is true for me. And so by starting to flex that muscle of, basically speaking my mind and kind of pushing the envelope of what I'm comfortable with, uh, communicating, I become empowered and I also am, I feel like I'm respected more and I, I feel more energized and inspired being around people. I think it really comes down to like, at least for me, and this is probably the case for a lot of people, like if you believe something that I, I realized fairly recently is, having the belief that you deserve something is what actually allows you to attract that thing. think for A lot of my life, I had this belief that I didn't, I didn't deserve a certain level of success or I didn't deserve something that I wanted. unconsciously, I think there was, there were things that I couldn't allow myself to like, believe that I, that I deserved for whatever reason, probably just past conditioning and, and unresolved traumas that I would never allowed to be processed and be present with. I think judgment also to not judge and just like accept and be aware of like whatever it is that you're feeling, you were kind of allowing it to be without charging it with either a good or a bad bias, which then I think creates even more of a distortion down the line. just accepting like what is true for me has, uh, allowed me to realize like I can have. Like, my intentions are if my intentions are good, I believe that I deserve what it is that I want, and I can speak my mind about that. my intentions aren't spiteful or to hurt anybody. someone is in disagreement, then that's not a bad thing, know? And that's a hard thing to unlearn.
Nik:Man, man, I, I resonate with that so much.'cause that's been a big theme of my past, I'd say three years,
Track 1:Mm-Hmm.
Nik:learning how to be really vulnerable, be very open, be be very honest and in tune with my truth. And then having the courage to speak that truth, even if it's in disagreement with others.
Track 1:Mm-Hmm.
Nik:this funny thing where we think that in holding back our truth, it's like we don't, at the end of the day, it's like we're scared of conflict. You know? to ruffle the feathers because then it's gonna be uncomfortable in some way. Right. But as you were pointing out, in doing that, we're draining ourselves of so much energy.
Track 1:Mm-Hmm.
Nik:experiencing the energy of, maybe being in disagreement with somebody is far Less, uh, disruptive than holding on to that inner conflict of not being in our truth or speaking our truth. So I I love that you've been stepping Right. And even, like you said, it's like you even actually get a bit more respect from that as well, where it's like, even if I disagree with you, I, I still respect you more for living in your truth, being in your truth, being honest about it, and, you know, it's a, there's a lot of confidence that comes with that as well,
Track 1:Yeah. I, I believe that, I think anyone who's like actually like uncomfortable or who's like angry or upset about Someone being respectfully in disagreement, kind of highlighting a conflict them that they need to process.
Nik:this is such an important lesson, I think, for all the producers and artists that are listening. It's like Especially when it comes to the business and the business and, you know, there's so many personalities, there's so many energies, there's so many agreements and disagreements and contracts and shows and like all this shit that comes with being on this journey as an artist in the up and down rollercoaster of the music industry. And it's like, you know, learning how to, I don't know, I, I don't wanna say We, we just get so emotional over things and, and I see so many artists that are like, you know, they'll bring a contract to me and they're like, oh, like, I, I'm scared to like, redline this contract because like, I don't wanna piss the label off, like, disagreeing with these terms. And like, no, this is the business. This is how it works. Like, just say what you fucking want. And it's, and it's black and white, you know, take the emotion out of it. And it's like a muscle that you have to learn how to flex. But I remember myself, even as a manager early on, like, I was so worried about ruffling feathers. And it's like, this is the, this is the business. This is the music business. You have to like, who you are, know what you want, speak your truth and recognize that like, that's just the game.
Track 1:mm-Hmm.
Nik:can't like hide from it, you know.
Track 1:Yeah. Yeah. That's, that's how the system is built. Um, and it's been a tough thing for me to harmonize with and I think it still is on a lot of levels. I mean, having a manager and booking agent and all that stuff to like negotiate and speak for you is, um, think that is definitely. very helpful for me. I'm not saying I don't need that now. I definitely do because they take, they, I have a lot of work delegated that I don't wanna have to deal with, and that they're just, that's their job. They're better at doing that. Uh, but I would say like for people that are like doing their own, like managing themselves, artists managing themselves or, just, just in general. Like even if you're working with a manager, I know, I know a lot of people that have had managers that are not actually in their best interest. And it's the same sort of thing. It's like, wait, who's working for who here? Like This is supposed to be a mutual relationship. Technically the artist is the boss of the manager. in so many of the dynamics, it's the other way around where the manager is like, they, they know best, but it's really self-interested. It is, In the end it's business. And thus like, how can we make the most money? It's supposed to be a mutually beneficial thing for both of us, but I mean, a lot of times that means an artist is denying what they really want to do for themselves. What they're calling is in the face of a manager that, has a lot more conviction over how things are done. And I think there's kind of this narcissistic, uh, narcissist relationship that goes on in a lot of these
Nik:totally.
Track 1:that can be very toxic.
Nik:You know, that's a part of, I think what attracted me to this other side of what I do in terms of being more on the, I don't know, self-help, personal development, life coaching side, is I realized like, yes, there is There is the business, there's obviously, there's the creative process, there's making the music, and then there's the business side of marketing, the music, building yourself and your brand and your audience. But there's this other piece of it, which is how to be a human and navigate all of it, which just also isn't really being taught, which is like how to have the emotional intelligence, right? just about getting a manager and building your audience, but also how do you Have enough emotional intelligence to navigate relationships properly, And how to stay inspired, how to stay confident, how to not doubt yourself, how to have, uh, healthy habits and a lifestyle so that when you start making money and touring and you know, partying and all this shit, it doesn't destroy you. Like
Track 1:Mm-Hmm?
Nik:other side of it that people don't really look at and think about. So, uh, to answer your question from earlier, I think having done so much work in the personal development space and just having a passion for it, that's kind of what brought me more onto, onto that side of it. that we're almost 20 minutes into our conversation and I
Track 1:Oh
Nik:even got to my first question that I, that I actually had for you. Uh, I only had one question. This was gonna be my starting point because I really wanted to talk to you about production. I went on your Spotify. Uh, just to listen to some of your new music and then kind of browse through your catalog. And I had to scroll for like two full minutes to get to the bottom of it. I was like, you have like hundred songs out, you know, and you've had a long
Track 1:It's
Nik:you've been doing it for a while. But something that I've been seeing a lot of people struggle with, I think it's becoming even more important now, is Actually really producing a quantity of music releasing a quantity of music. I think that, uh, you know, I just had a great conversation with, uh, James Rhodes, the Vice President of Fixed Records the other day. We had a deep convo about, Spotify and just the algorithm. And it's like Spotify wants to see you uploading regularly. Like that's how it's going to, algorithmically, you know, uh, keep directing traffic to you. And, not to say it's just about the algorithm, but there's so much stuff coming out all the time. You, we kind of need to stay on people's radars and, uh, just, I know a lot of the people that I work with, a lot of the clients that I've worked with in the past, can be a lot of resistance and just a lot of, uh, challenge in the studio to like just sit down and make music. And then also the challenge of like putting it out and being seen and, you know, possibly not getting any views, all of that. But you seem to have. Fucking dialed it in. just looking at the quantity of music that you've put out. So I'm curious if you could just share a little bit about what has helped you put out so much music.
Track 1:Yeah. Wow. There's so much. There's so many Key points that I would love to touch on that you just mentioned, but, okay. Yeah, to, to answer the, the question, first of all, I, I wanna, I want to say, don't know, call this a humble brag I have 192 songs released on Spotify, there's still some unofficial songs that are like on SoundCloud and YouTube. But,
Nik:So sick.
Track 1:I've been releasing music since 2010, and that was like my, that was my, basically when I was a senior in high school is when I started doing that. feel like to answer the question is kind of like, there's two parts to it. On one end, I feel kind of like I started out. sort of an, an exception to the, the, the usual artist and music producer of, of modern times. what I mean by that is, I've been making musical on the computer since like for more than half my life. I'm 31 now. I started making music on the computer when I was nine and I really got into electronic music, around and 14. And so there was of this time when, like throughout I mean, really like middle school and high school where I was making music for my, like, literally for myself. And what I mean by that is not showing anyone, I was not even familiar with any music scene or connected to, like, there was no one in my life other than a couple very close friends who also was, was into electronic music. My parents didn't even, weren't even into it. So I was really just motivated to make music because I was hearing so much shit in my head that sounded really cool that I needed to hear more vividly. when I first heard dance music, I, I don't know, I just, I knew that I needed more of that in my life. It was just one of those
Nik:Yeah. And so, it's so different than I think what I see from a lot of people, which is like, I made my first track and now how do I put it out and become a DJ like I've been producing for, for six months? Like, let's
Track 1:Mm-Hmm. Yeah, I think it's a totally different head space. but that's the thing, like each person kind of has their own, like, their own things that motivate them. And it's hard to say, like there's no, I don't think there's a one size fits all, like, answer of like, here's the step-by-step process of what you need to do in order to be prolific and also release a bunch of music. I think it's case by case and ultimately I think everyone starts to con as every, as everyone does it enough, these things of like personal need and also like social expression start to, kind of become more well-rounded and, uh, everyone will eventually start to converge, into like finding that the, the desire to create and the desire to express start of, kind of starts to become One and the same.
Nik:Yeah. And, was there at some point also the desire to turn this into a career that is like a third element that gets mixed into it. Like when did that come into it? Because it must've come in at some point, right? Like obviously when did that start to emerge also, and, and that affect your creative process at all?
Track 1:it started to come in, I'd say probably senior year of high school. When I first released my, my first album. That was because I had to figure out like, what am I gonna do for my career?
Nik:Yeah.
Track 1:And what kind of school am I gonna go to? Am I gonna go to school? I love science. And that's been a, that was a huge thing throughout my life as well. I found that like music and science have always been huge pillars in my life. and I never really found, I never really like, thought that there was a viable convergence between the two until I started making like, synthesizer music and I was like, this is the combination of both. but yeah, it wasn't really until senior year of high school I thought that I was going to go to a school for like some, some type of engineering career is what I thought that I was gonna do. Electrical engineering, maybe some computer science thing. but I kind of like last year, like last minute, uh, which was like the last year, um, to like. See what music like going school for music would be because, uh, science sciences and engineering that is more stable. That's kind of what I grew up thinking was the viable thing. And that making mu music as a career was a pipe dream to actually be like, really successful first of, like I said, I didn't really know of any music scene. I didn't have any friends that also had any that, that, that did what I did and had any success with it. So, I wasn't really like, it was kind of like a blind, blind faith thing that like, maybe this would work. I burned my music to CDs and I handed it out last year of high school and, uh, shared it with my friends and that was really the first time I actually got like, kind of like a broad general sense of feedback from people. And it seemed like a lot of people I was surprised, but a lot of people were like really into it. I was like, man, he is gonna listen to this fucking weird ass music,
Nik:Hmm. And,
Track 1:cause I never heard any of it.
Nik:and that kind of points to this interesting almost dichotomy of like, you know, on the one hand really almost being isolated in your own creative process and like music for yourself and that allowed you to go really deep with it. then there also does come a moment where it's almost like we need to put it out to see, to kind of get that glimmer of hope, of people kind of, they actually fuck with this and so there's this little spark that's gonna inspire me to potentially pursue this path further.
Track 1:Yeah. I, I, I think that's something that is, it's beautiful when it, when it first happens, it's really inspiring and validating. I also wanna say, I think it is, it's dangerous too, because that's a taste of extrinsic success.
Nik:Yeah.
Track 1:a taste of like, oh, someone else or something else is giving me value. It's, it's me for myself. And I think it's really easy to, especially because it feels really good, you know, it's like it's a hit of dopamine. like, that's something that a lot of people wanna chase. I think that's kind of like, I think it's a guiding light in a lot of ways, but I don't think it's the ultimate goal. I don't think that you should be making music for other people. I think, well, I have a more recent theory on that, but I think ultimately in order to have a fulfilled and balanced life, you want to be making music from a, a place of. Where it's really coming from you, a heart-centered place? Uh, I think it is good to take, like I've, I've been motivated by something that has motivated me is, I, I've always like found that being challenged. Like if someone was like, yeah, you, you're not gonna be able to do this. And that was something that was said to me before, like, you're not gonna be able to, it's like winning the lottery. It's like a total chance based thing, like making a successful music career, uh, or making a successful career out of just like being a solo artist. There was a part of me that was like, I wanted to challenge that. Like I. I like, all right, you bet. Let's, let's fucking go. Let's see how far I can go. Like, I'm gonna find what I'm good at, and that ibel what I can, what I really believe about myself that I'm good at. yeah, see how far that can that can go. And I mean, I didn't even know, I didn't even know about like affirmations or mantras or anything like that back, back then. But like, I remember there were times like in middle school where I was like, just like staring at myself in the mirror saying like, I fucking got this. I'm gonna fucking do this. Like,'cause I was like angry and frustrated by someone like putting me down. I was like, felt like that kind of self-empowering thing, like having that belief in yourself really makes, can make a huge difference in like what sort of opportunities you allow into your life and kind of just how you, how you tackle life.
Nik:Yeah,
Track 1:Like, gotta believe in
Nik:I, from what I've seen, you know, I've had the privilege of seeing a lot of people go from to a hundred. You know, kids that came into Icon, artists that I used to manage that were like, you know, they're sleeping on their fucking friend's couch one minute, and then they're touring the world a couple years later.
Track 1:Mm-Hmm.
Nik:I've always been very curious about what is the common thread between them and that belief is like, that's, I think, step number one, you have to believe, right? If believe it, it's how is it possibly gonna happen, know?
Track 1:absolutely. I, I think that everyone, I think that everyone has intrinsic value and it is hard for a lot of people to realize that value in themselves without some kind of external validation and without that it could feel like you're lost or like you can't find your own belief in yourself. But
Nik:And I think it's both I really, I really believe in this idea that we are, I. Spiritual beings having a human experience, not human a spiritual experience. Like we're both, you know, what's this is, what is this thing that is making your heart beat, that you life since before you even came out of your mother's womb? There has been some sort of universal force that is just giving us life it's fucking amazing, and it's like that's at the core essence of what we are like. We are these spiritual beings.
Track 1:Mm-Hmm?
Nik:also having the human experience. And with the human comes ego and comes materialism and comes the need for validation. And so I don't think it's, it's, it's, a lot of us get totally swung in the direction of being the human experience, which is, you know, we're chasing the money, we're chasing the validation. We want the fame, we want the success, we want the survival. Right? And, and, if the pendulum has swung the other way too, and it's like, you're only, I'm just a magical being and I, you know, like you're just living in the clouds. It's like, that's also not real either because we are here and we are having this, this, you know, little magical human journey while it lasts. And I, I truly think it's the integration of both. It's like, I don't know if we can ever get rid of That need for validation, you know,
Track 1:Right, right.
Nik:like being at least aware of it and using it to your advantage rather, you know, rather than getting lost in it, which I think so many people are.
Track 1:Yeah, man. Yeah, I, I resonate with a lot of what you just said. I want to, uh, yeah, I, I wanna remark on a few things. I think that being a human is something to honor, like being an individual is a gift in itself. Having an ego is a beautiful thing able to realize that you are both, like all, I think all we're trying to really find, being, like having this human experience is connection, because I believe that. This essence that is at the core of us, that is beyond our personalities, that is beyond the ego, that is beyond the things that we do. You know, there is this intrinsic value that I'm, that I'm, that I was talking about, and there is this essence that is within us that I think is inseparable from everyone else. And what we're trying to do in so many different ways, metaphorically and, and literally is to, is to become unified as like, basically I kind of see it like, uh, we are all fragments of God. And that God is really just the, the, the essence of the universe, the unified mind, this mind is fragmented into all of these different individual, unique avatars that are being animated as that are being animated, uh, by that source, by that, that essence. but, uh, are each unique individuals. And I think, yeah, it's important to honor your individuality but, I mean, to go back to what you're saying, yeah. If you're, if you are just identifying with like, oh, I'm, I'm. Like, kill the ego. I mean, I think a lot of that sort of, that sort of mentality, we're all one man, like kill the ego, like we're just spiritual beings. that is a, it's true, but that is not the entirety. And I think a lot of times when that is said, it is an overcorrection for the materialistic, egocentric, toxicity that is prevalent in society.
Nik:it's
Track 1:I think it's, it's both.
Nik:Yeah, exactly. not either or. It's both. And it's both. It's like want to be so deeply spiritual and connected to God, and connected to source, and connected to the universe and just feel so plugged in and tapped in, I wanna be rich as fuck, and I want to have a and I wanna have a sick car, and I want to have all the, all the fun little human shit that I get to have
Track 1:Mm-Hmm.
Nik:here. Like, you know what I mean? It's, it's both,
Track 1:I totally do. Yeah,
Nik:Right. and it's, it's such a paradox because I think there, there also is very much this programming that it kinda has to be one or the other, you know? it's like, it's really about that, you know? It's the yin and the yang, the integration, uh, of, of all of it.
Track 1:Yeah. It's interesting. Yeah. You say like, like to be, to be rich as fuck and to like, have, have all of these things that like make us feel alive and that are exciting. I think being, mean, I think that that can be a beautiful thing and I think it is when you are able to achieve that in a way that like also reinvigorates your sense of your spirit. Um, because I think that is something that it can do.
Nik:yeah. It's like what's the purpose? what's, what's the why? If at the why coming from, I wanna be rich as fuck, because then I'll be enough. right? many people are chasing. Or I wanna be a successful artist, I wanna have a bunch of fans. I want to have all of this praise and acknowledgement and recognition, because then I'll be worthy, then
Track 1:Right.
Nik:then, you know? And so it's all coming from unworthiness as opposed to when we see like, wait a minute, I'm already perfect, whole and complete.
Track 1:Yeah.
Nik:a divine spiritual being that doesn't need anything. But while I'm here, let's have some fucking fun. Or while I'm here, if I get rich as fuck, I can go help other people. I can go serve, I can go create things. go start a record label. I can go throw a party, I can, I can do whatever. You
Track 1:Can, you can bring people up with you
Nik:Yeah, it's coming from a I think that's the, that's the secret. You know, that's the I talk to so many artists all the fucking time, and it's like, one of the big things I do to dig into a bit is like, why are you doing this? Where is it coming from? You know, like, like, Like, of course we, we have an ego, we all have a, so there's always gonna be a part of wanting that, you know, validation and, you know, all, all of that. But like, I think this is why I was excited to kind of bring you on is because you seem like you've really been doing it for a different reason. Like the, the result and the consequence is you do get to have a, a fan base and a following, and you get to play shows and all of that. But the essence of where it's coming from, you know, for you seems like it's been coming from a different place.
Track 1:It's, man. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Switching gears a little bit there. I did want to address a couple, I wanted to say one last thing to the, the previous Thing that we talked about. and that is when it comes to like money and achievement and material things, I think, it's important to recognize that it's important to recognize and ask yourself, are you attaching a story to money or success means? are you attaching a story to money and success? and what does that act, what does that actually mean for you? I think money is kind of like this goal for a lot of people, but for me, I'm starting to realize money is a byproduct of providing value in some way. And if you are our, I I I find that like how much money you earn of times is reflective of how much much value you believe that you have to offer. How,
Nik:A thousand percent. It's like, you can't, it's funny, man. I actually, uh, I, I am a, a coaching group that I joined and we start in a few weeks and it's like a men's group mastermind thing, and they asked a question like, what's your, like what's, what's one word of what you're calling in for this 2024? And I, at first I wanted to say abundance, but actually, I was like, no, I it's impact. That's my word impact, because I know that the more impact I make, as in the more service I provide, the more value I add, the abundance comes from there.
Track 1:Yeah. Exact. Yeah.
Nik:gonna be focused on the abundance. I'm gonna be focused on the impact. How can I serve, how can I show up, and how much value can I bring to the world and this community?
Track 1:I think that's wise. Yeah, I absolutely agree with that because abundance, I think the word abundance. Like, I, like, like I said, I feel like different people have different stories attached to what that means. Abundance that there's like also a lack of abundance. And how are you relating to either of those things currently in your life? it's very different than like, yeah. Impact, which it's, it's, it's doesn't have necessarily that that bias of that charge or that, that it's less, like it is less easy to judge, uh, or to put a judgment on that. I think it's probably a more foundational thing to work from.
Nik:Yeah. Yeah. All right. All let's I'm gonna pull us out of the deep end. We're gonna come back. I wanna, I want to hear about, how you sit your ass down and produce.'cause again, this is something I see struggle with. what is your, process producing? Like, do you have hours that you set for yourself where you're like, I'm gonna sit down and I'm on a schedule. You know, like, I know some people are, it's very much like a career, like a nine to five, I sit down every day. Or do you just kind of in when you feel inspired? Like what's your actual approach to it?
Track 1:it has changed a lot. It's ebb and flowed over the years and recently, and I, I'd say probably for the past, while, it has been totally just on a whim,
Nik:Hmm.
Track 1:a lot of times I'll just this, this sounds so, like unconventional Like I don't treat this like a job almost at all. And, uh, for the better and for the worse. I think there are a lot of places where. Like my life. I, I could, I could have a lot more structure in my life right now, but I also find that where I am at, it's, I can afford to not have that structure. For instance, I've been, I just moved into an, into this new house. It's I just bought a house for the first time and uh, it's a new build. Thank you. Yeah, me and my partner bought it and I'm in, uh, Arvada, but Denver, Colorado basically. Yeah. this is something that has been like, we've, like my partner and I went on, went in on this brand new house and it's awesome it's been something we've been anticipating for a long time. It was supposed to be done being built next year and uh, it got done being built early, coinciding right? With the peak of my tour. So These past two months been just like a crazy upheaval of like my life. Uh, I'm, I've just been so busy. I'm still kind of just like integrating all of this stuff and decompressing from tour right now and settling into this new place. and so I, there really is like, I am not structured at all. I've been usually going to sleep at like 8:00 AM and waking up at probably like one or two. So this is during the hours that I've, that I've usually, that I'm usually asleep in the past week. So talking about structure now, that's like kind of out the window right now.
Nik:Well, and I imagine when you're touring as well, it's like there's, there's not, that's such a hard to navigate around and have consistency. You're flying out every weekend or even more than
Track 1:yeah.
Nik:Yeah,
Track 1:It's, you kinda have to just like go like learn to like, let go and go with the flow. And for me it's been, I guess there's a parallel with, with making music too. Like leave the opportunity for there to like, create the space for the opportunity to arise. but like, I'm not gonna force it. And I find that almost every time I sit down with the goal of like, I'm gonna write a banger, it sucks. And it's not even a fun process. Uh, it's like I, I'm not actually in the flow.
Nik:I heard, I heard Chris Lake one time. Say that, producing is like a shark. If you have to force it, it's probably shit
Track 1:Yeah, no, I agree.
Nik:yeah, yeah. But no, what you is actually literally what we would say in the Art of Flow class. Which is to create the space, which is to say, Hey, I'm gonna show up. And, and maybe that is where there is a little bit of the, what I would call like the masculine structure of like, okay, I'm gonna show up from o'clock to six o'clock, today is my time to sit down and produce. But when I, I, and now I've created this container, but when I show up, I'm showing up without any expectation and I'm gonna that more wild, chaotic, sporadic feminine flow come and let whatever happens, happen without any
Track 1:Yeah.
Nik:you know, real structure or focus or attachment. You know?'cause that's the biggest thing is like, yeah, you're like, oh, I want to come in and make a banger. And it's like, well, good luck,
Track 1:Yeah. Man. Okay. So yeah, I think that's you, you put it in a really good way. Um, and I think you kind of just described what I was Trying to crystallize in my mind that that happens. So yeah, I find myself like, when I'm not like having to do the things I do find myself, like creating space. I mean, I find that I naturally gravitate towards like, solitude anyway, and in, in, in a way that is kind of my way to create space for myself. It's like, ah, I need to get away from people and socializing, and I need to like, just like be alone with my thoughts and just like allow the mind to expand however broad the space I'm making is because it feels really good. So I kind of think that that's kind of been like a, a natural thing that I've entrained myself to do, I also realized that there are a lot of people who, who are like. Uncomfortable with being, like, having that space, having that silence with themselves. Like I love just, I, I could sit down and just observe my thoughts for a long time and go deep, even if it's like dark and fucking morbid. Like I've always been comfortable with that. but I realized that a lot of people don't like that and are afraid of kind of like their inner world and what is inside and, and I, I also, I also find times where I, I want to be distracted by things. I don't want to like always go in on some uncomfortable shit that I'm dealing with, but it's something that I've found that I'm, I'm, I've be, I've created space for enough to where I don't really think it's a big deal to find that when I, when I feel it calling for me. So I would encourage people to yeah, make the space to like, just tune in, tap in to, to and whatever you're feeling. and then, yeah, like without, I guess without judgment or without an end goal. Kind of just like working with what you're feeling in the moment. And that could literally be whatever. feel like children intuitively do this and are a great, I think children are great, like examples of just intuitive creators. the thing is that they, they don't necessarily always have like the honed in tools and skills, nor do they have the cultural conditioning and like. Of like, you need to fit into a box. They don't judge themselves like adults do.
Nik:I, that's always say there's no such thing as writer's block. Like the, the flow the inspiration, the creativity is always there. It's like the electrical current that's in the walls. Like it's always there. You just have to plug into it. But the thing you from plugging into it is the little egoic, judgmental mind that when creating, you automatically start to judge it. Like, is this good? Is this bad? Am I doing this right? Is this Is a label gonna like this? Are my fans gonna like this? And children don't have that part of their brain developed yet. So if you give them a piece of paper and crans, they're never not gonna draw. They're always just fucking drawing.'cause they love drawing and that's it. simple as that. They're not gonna draw and look at it and be like, eh, this is ugly. I'm gonna stop. Like, no child will ever do that.
Track 1:Abs. Yeah. Yeah. You said it greatly. yeah. I don't believe writer's block is a, is it's not like a real thing. It's a self-imposed thing of just being out of alignment with the present moment, being, having an expectation that you are, what you're currently doing is not, is not aligning with, and thus it creates even this greater divide,
Nik:Yeah. do you um,'cause I think when people make a certain genre, they, you know, you start to develop a brand and a sound as a an artist. Then there is a little bit of an expectation perhaps of like, what maybe you should be making. just make shit that's like totally outside of your brand and like, not at all, like what you normally, like, do you ever just sit down and make like a hip hop beat or something that's just like totally different, you know?
Track 1:Yeah. Oh yeah. Man, I have so many songs. Well, so many works in progress. They're always gonna be in progress. I like so many sketches of stuff that are, that's, that's so, I guess not on brand, but that even feels weird for me to say because I feel like my, like the a u five brand isn't, I don't really think it's something that I, ah, man, this is a weird thing. I think it's kind of a collaborative effort between what, like what the au what the, what the majority of my audience thinks I am and sees of me and determines me as, and also what I am myself. like I am known for making technical melodic dubstep, but that's really because, well, for one, it's fucking fun to make. And also a lot of people, like most people recognize me for, for doing that.
Nik:Yeah. a a U five is the package that you're putting your creativity in that is. Being sold to the marketplace. You know, we do. It is a, it is a business, right? And it's like, of it to be about and honest about. Right? So I think there is, there is that sense of like, yeah, it's, it's giving it to your audience, giving your audience kind of what they, what they want and expect, right? Like there, there at some point, I think there has to be a little bit of that perhaps. don't know.
Track 1:Yeah.
Nik:on that?
Track 1:very fluid thing for me. It's a very fluid concept. I, and I think it's probably just a matter of like, well, finding a balance of energies in me, like I, I love I like the idea of subverting people's expectations. I've also had lot of judgment when I started exploring things outside of just like dubstep. And what I, what I come to realize is that the audience itself is also a, it's an externalized reflection of what's happening in inside. And what I mean by that is you can cater to an audience that you think exists and you're probably going to find, it's probably going to manifest as such. gonna, I feel like I need to make, like I, I see in the music scene, like there's a lot of bass music fans, so I feel like I can make bass music. I should probably make bass music to be successful because I see what other people are making and this their successes that they get. I see that there are already a lot of fans that like this kind of music and I think, Yeah, that is a totally valid place to That's a totally valid place to start. I don't think there's anything wrong with creating from like what already exists, uh, seeing an audience that's already there. I mean, what better, what better way is there to, to get the attention of other people than making something that you know already, people already like, you know, I that is a way,
Nik:everybody else is doing it too.
Track 1:yeah.
Nik:So now fucking 10,000 people making pretty much the same shit and like nobody's getting anywhere.
Track 1:it's just like a child drawing without judgment. Like if you can find that part of yourself and, and follow that. I think you can do anything, and there is an audience that exists for it. The thing is that that audience just may not have the critical mass or the coherency or of the people in one place for you to, for you to realize that, oh, there actually is an audience for that. I think there's an audience for literally anything. I don't think the human psyche is really able to comprehend like the magnitude of people that exist in the world. Like,
Nik:And it's growing more and more every minute, all the time. You know, you you said a word, uh, a minute ago that actually really unlocked concept that I haven't thought about. You said about being like fluid and dynamic, which as I think about an audience, it's like audience is fluid and dynamic too. people come and go. It's not like there's this group of people is always going to be there and is always going to like the same stuff. It's like, it's always changing and it's and like that fan base is going to, it's, it's such a simple concept, but I haven't really thought about that. You know, it's like the, audience is fluid and dynamic as well, so knowing that you actually have a lot more freedom than you yourself to go out there and, and push the boundaries and try new shit and follow where your inspiration is going rather than following where you think the audience is going.
Track 1:Yeah. I completely agree. And what a beautiful opportunity to do that. Like what, what, what a great thing to realize that, and an opportunity to do that. I think the two things that really trip people up though and make them afraid of that is judgment of the current audience that they are aware of. like, ah, I mean, I've I've experienced that multiple times. like for instance, I, I released a song called Follow You Back in 2014. This was after releasing a bunch of like bass music, which is, which was like a really pretty like melodic housey song. I had so many people message me being like, what the hell is this? This isn't, this isn't your sound. Go back to like, like, what are you doing? Which is such a weird and kind of funny thing for someone else to say like, this isn't you. That's totally just a projection of what they, of, of them and their perception of you and what they want.
Nik:and also just a quick perspective shift on that is it's like you can actually take that as a compliment.'cause also what they're saying is, I really like that other stuff you were doing.
Track 1:Yeah. That's true.
Nik:Thank you. Thank you for liking the old version of me. Uh, the new version of me. And if you don't like it, that's okay. You like the
Track 1:Yeah. Yeah.
Nik:You know,
Track 1:Yeah, And a lot of people are also afraid that like, oh, I'm like, I'm, this is now my sound. people have this idea that artists are like, okay, if they change their sound, that is their new brand and that is who they are and that's who they're defining of instead of like, oh, this is, this is just a broadening of their spectrum
Nik:Yeah. This is, this a chapter in my book,
Track 1:Yeah.
Nik:will end and a new one will begin.
Track 1:Yeah. Every, yeah, everyone is changing a dynamic. It's like people can't treat other people like they're machines, but there is this almost like, there's this expectation that people are, it's like, oh, they're this, there's this fixed machine that will just keep getting better at doing the one thing it's not like that everyone's changing and people's tastes need to change and people need to like kind of like loosen up and relax a bit more, uh, in order to have that receptivity to really I don't know. And enjoy all of the vibrance, of the vibrancy and colors of, of life and what life has to, to bring. So to go back to what you were saying though, like judgment, uh uh, yeah, I wanna just say, uh, people are afraid of judgment people are also afraid of like having a lack of, like, if you're on a roll for something that works and then you change your sound and then you realize, oh, I just, like, I don't have the same engagement. I lost a bunch of fans. hyper fixating on this, on externalized value.
Nik:Mm-Hmm.
Track 1:that I think is scary for a lot of people because it makes people wonder like, am I doing something wrong now? Am I going to be able to su to sustain this life that I, that I This life trajectory that I was on. and it says like, and I'm not getting it all the, uh, the same amount of streams or getting booked, uh, as many shows and I'm not making as much money. I think these, these two fundamental fears, really just come down to, I mean, I think all fears ultimately go back to the fear of death
Nik:Mm-Hmm.
Track 1:or directly. And the fear of like being judged and not having, and not making enough money, are very Yeah, exactly. with with money, it's like once you have your basic needs covered, there really isn't a, really it like making more money than having your basic needs covered. It's been scientifically shown that like it doesn't actually improve, life, uh, like Like contentment and happiness in life, is interesting'cause it doesn't feel like that would be the case. But I think happiness and excitement are different things. And then secondly, being judged is a kind of like a, a archaic, uh, survival mechanism. But like, if, if we're judged, we are then rejected from the tribe and without the tribe and community then we are on our own and we will probably die because we can't fend for ourselves. has been so ingrained into our physiology, because mean, it isn't really, it hasn't really been until like the past, I mean, 50 or so years, uh, to where like we, we can live on our own and be independent and not have the, not actually be by, you know. Being abandoned or something killing us.
Nik:and, and you know what this really boils down to as an artist yes, as humans, we do have this need for and community. And yes, in the past it used to really be about survival. but even still then, like we have the need for and connection.
Track 1:Mm-Hmm.
Nik:when you choose to take this path as an artist, what you are really choosing is to be a leader. which is that I am gonna be creating my own community. And so with that, you have to let go of this feeling and this need of like, oh, I need to fit into the community. I need to be a part of what's happening and really have the courage to go out there and say, I'm, I'm building this thing myself. There's the greater of the music industry and the maybe the bass community or the dance music community, but like, you as an artist are building your own community, right? So,
Track 1:Yeah, absolutely man.
Nik:are the, you're the epicenter of it. Like you're the leader of it. And, comes with some responsibility. That requires courage, that requires a lot of hard work. so just like take that on and know that that's what this path is all about.
Track 1:man. That's ab, that's, yeah. I really appreciate you saying that. I believe that as well.
Nik:Yeah.
Track 1:there is this, I mean, being a leader is, it does require a lot of courage. being a leader is, sounds like a, a great empowering thing and it absolutely is. But when you're actually faced with that opportunity and you start to realize that you have influence, but you are also other people have So influence over you. the potential, like the possibility of being judged, for instance. a lot of focus on oneself. It's a lot of it it feels like there is the, there are these other hidden things that start coming up about like your intrinsic value. It's like, am I, like, for me at least, I think this is one of the reasons why I'm actually not more successful or, you know, more known or like playing, doing whatever. There's a lot of people that have, have over the years been like, dude, why, why don't you have like a followers are like, way more plays. And I'm like, well, that's honestly something that I couldn't answer for the longest time. But I, I think a, a big part of that, and this might not be the ultimate answer, but, I think a big part of that has been, I didn't actually believe that I deserved that.
Nik:Hmm.
Track 1:And think that part of me was afraid of too much success or being too much a leader or too much on the spot. I didn't feel like there was something in me that I, I didn't trust enough in myself. Uh, or I didn't have enough like, value of myself to value in myself and of myself to feel like I would be worthy of being on top and killing it that much and being that much of a leader. but I'm starting to, it's been a humbling journey past year, like. Just all of these different things that I've been doing, working on myself and trying to like, it's been fucking humbling and scary and really empowering at the same time. to just be open and sharing stuff and like also like seeing a therapist and working on like really like deep things. that I never even was aware of before.
Nik:Yeah.
Track 1:I'm starting to realize, wow, I think I can be this, this, this, this icon or this this leader, but not in like an egoic sense in a way to like, as someone to bring light to others and to, you know, unify us. know? I think that's kind of what my calling is, is to catalyze other people in being able to inspire themselves and also to see like if I can become a. An icon of light or object of, intrigue or inspiration that other people can start to recognize that same thing in themselves.
Nik:yeah. Yeah, man. Well, I love that you said your calling.'cause I think that for every true artist out there, and I'm gonna say every true artist,'cause I think that there's a lot of producers, there's a lot of DJs, there's a lot of people that are playing the game and making the music and just wanna play shows and have fun and make some money. And that's cool. But there's a you know, which is, which is like the hero's journey, which is something else that in in the Art of Flow, which is when this is your calling, you are being called by. You're living in your dharma. Like this is your purpose. is what you're, what you've been put here on earth to do And I think that every single human has a calling. Every one of us is here for a reason. It's no fucking accident. You were one in trillion sperm that made it to the egg. Like it's not a fucking accident that here. Every single person has a dharma and has a calling. And for those truly is to be an artist, then it is your responsibility to answer that calling. And, you know, there's all the external stuff to do, but there's also all the internal stuff to do. And I love to hear that you're doing the internal work, uh, that you're a therapist, that you're doing the deep dive and, and really doing the self-reflection. You know, one of my first coaches told me that, uh, you know, sometimes it's like we're trying to drive through life with the parking brake on, we're trying to accelerate, but it's like, why, why is it so hard? maybe I'm not reaching that level of impact and success that I, I know I'm destined to. And doing work is really figuring out where are those, where are those parking breaks? What is
Track 1:Yeah.
Nik:limiting belief or this thing of unworthiness that, you know, we have to sniff out and dig up and work through, you know, and, and that's the, that's the work that I'm really interested in and. know, I want to thank you for this conversation because getting me to have a lot more clarity on where I feel really called to go with my coaching, which is not just building brands and helping with social media, you know, which I think I've pulled a little bit into, but like, this is the shit that I'm all about, is like really helping people get truly aligned with their divine greatness and their calling and their purpose and their real true authentic expression as an artist. And so, you know, this has been, yeah, just really, uh, really helpful to be a reminder for me to, to be in tune with what my purpose is and what my calling is, you know, so you so much for, this whole hour, man. You're fucking rad.
Track 1:Yeah. as are you, man. Thank you.
Nik:Yeah.