CORYNNE BURROWS (Midas Touch Mgmt) - Turning Your Daydream Into A Day Job

Corynne Burrows is the founder and CEO of Midas Touch Management who represents a powerhouse roster of artists including the grammy nominated duo SIDEPIECE, Nitti and Henry Fong.

In this episode we talk about the personality traits and characteristics that successful artists have, how to identify your target market, the importance of getting feedback on your music, the challenges that touring artists face and more.

Follow Corynne here:
https://www.midastouchmgmt.com
https://www.instagram.com/midastouchmgmt

Follow Nik here:
https://www.instagram.com/nikcherwink

And visit my site to join the mailing list, book a free coaching call or get in touch:
https://www.nikcherwink.com

Transcript

Track 1: 0:00

there is really just a part of this where like. You have to do it by any means necessary, and that is what's gonna separate a lot of people.'cause the ones that are dipping their toes in, like it's really hard to get your footing if you've only got one toe in the water.

Nik: 0:27

What's up everybody? Welcome to the Headliner Mindset podcast. Today's guest is an artist manager who works with some of the biggest names in dance music, including the Grammy nominated duo, sidepiece Nitty, and my man Henry Fong, her company, Midas Touch Management, is on a mission to help artists turn their daydream into a day job. And by the looks of it, they're doing pretty damn well. This is Corinne Burrows.

Track 1: 0:54

Hello everyone. Hi Nick. Thanks for having me.

Nik: 0:57

Yeah. Thank you so much for being here. Uh, I'm really excited. You know, I had the pleasure of meeting Henry Fung through this podcast, right. Pretty early on. Right, right when I started. I had never met him before and he's since become like such a great friend. He's an amazing person, and, uh, I know he's one of the artists that is on your roster, so I'm very excited to, to meet the woman behind the magic today.

Track 1: 1:21

Well, I appreciate it. Henry has nothing but the nicest things to say about you, and I'm glad we could follow up.

Nik: 1:27

Yeah. Yeah, he's a good dude. Um, everyone definitely go check out that episode, a very, very fun one. Uh, but yeah, as far as this episode, we have, uh, we have a real life artist manager here with us. And so, first off, tell me who else is on the roster over at Midas Touch.

Track 1: 1:45

yeah, so I have side piece Knitty Fe, my Knitty Henry uh, miles O'Neill, freak on. fomo. On one pickup lines, I've got'em all on the board. Yeah, there's nine of'em. So there's a lot

Nik: 2:03

you have a a, a stacked roster over there.

Track 1: 2:08

specifically curated, but yeah, everybody that we work with is very talented, uh, smart, humble, just good people.

Nik: 2:17

Yeah. Yeah, I, uh, I had the pleasure of meeting, the Sidepiece guys as well. They played Austin City Limits here, like the, uh, a couple months back and, and I got to, uh, go hang out with them and meet them. They were really, uh, really amazing dudes. Also, just, I feel like you surround yourself with like really cool, solid people over

Track 1: 2:35

that is, that's the goal. We're very much like family oriented. I co-manage a lot of projects with a lot of different companies as well. And, you know, we all work really well together and just try to keep that sort of like family vibe.

Nik: 2:48

Yeah, I love it. I love it. what I also love is your mission statement, part of your mission is giving artists a real shot at turning their daydream into their day job. And I feel like that's such a great topic for conversation for us to dive into.'cause that's the question I think everybody's asking. How do I make this my full-time career? How do I take this from just being this cool, fun thing that I do in my bedroom to actually getting out there and having this become my career and making money and getting to, you know, play the shows and, and do all of that. So that's what I'd really love to dive into with you today.

Track 1: 3:26

Yeah, I mean that's probably one of my favorite topics to discuss, so that's good.

Nik: 3:30

before we get into that, tell me more about this mission.

Track 1: 3:33

that's what I did. That's what I try to encourage my artists to do, and that's definitely the opportunity I try to provide the team around me. Um, I think we all came into this industry as fans first. You know, I started as just like somebody who's going to shows and then wanted to be involved. So started promoting and, you know, kind of went through that whole chain of command to. The point that I'm at now. and it definitely requires a lot of perseverance and connections and just willingness to do what needs to be done by any means necessary for a very long period of time. But once you're doing all of that and you have the right pieces in place, when that opportunity presents itself and you can take advantage of it, then you know you really do like turn a corner.

Nik: 4:19

what has kept you going? Because I know being an artist manager isn't easy either. Like, being an artist isn't easy, you know, but being a manager is not easy either. As you said, it takes a lot of perseverance, like what has really kept you going and, and kept you in the game.

Track 1: 4:35

I mean, I love music. I love being surrounded by creatives. I love the ability to, you know, go to work, which is like going to watch a show, you know what I mean? Flying around the country and, you know, meeting new people and watching the way that the. Fans respond to the artists that you sit in an office and work on every day and then you go see a new song, be played live or you have kind of like these epic fest festival moments or whatever the case may be. Like those sorts of things I think you can't find, or it's very difficult to find in most other jobs. And so like, I think if all else fails, I know I can always go back to a regular nine to five. Uh, but until then, I'm just gonna give it everything I've got.

Nik: 5:20

Yeah. I love that you said that because that was the same thing that really encouraged me to get into the music business as well.'cause I started at like a financial advising job, like right outta college. I was like,

Track 1: 5:32

Yeah, I worked at a bank too.

Nik: 5:33

yeah, like this is what you do after school. You go get a fucking bank job. You go get a normal job. And then that was the same thought I had where I was like, I was like. This industry is not going anywhere. Like financial advising firms are still gonna be here when I'm 30. They're still gonna be here when I'm 40, so let's just shoot our damn shot while we're, while we're kind of young and go for it. And it's like, you can always go get that banking job later. was there ever a moment that you were second guessing and doubting like, yo, I don't know if I wanna do this shit anymore.

Track 1: 6:04

Oh, for sure. I mean, it wasn't a matter of whether I wanted to do it, it was just am I going to be able to do it? like I said, I was working at the bank for many years and just kind of balancing, working a full-time job at the bank and then having my promotions company, which then started turning more into a management company and, uh, I just decided I was gonna cash in my 401k and sell everything I had and move to California. And really. Give it my best effort. And I had what I thought was a lot of savings, but turned out to be essentially no savings when moving to California. And uh, yeah, I blew through that in a couple of months and hadn't found a secure job. And I remember calling my mom and being like, I. I might have to come home. Like I just, I need to know that if I need to come home, that I can, she said, of course. And that was on the way to, uh, the meeting that I had with Paul Campbell, who was my boss for a very long time over at New Management, to be his personal assistant is how it started. And I went to that meeting and I called her after and I was like, I think this meeting just changed my life. And, you know,

Nik: 7:13

Yeah,

Track 1: 7:13

years later, still haven't moved home.

Nik: 7:16

I think that's such a necessary part of the process is you gotta, you gotta go all in, you gotta put all your fucking chips in, right? Like that is, I think, the headliner mindset. It can't be like, oh, I'm gonna, I'm gonna kind of try this out and see it, see if it works. It's gotta be like, yo, I'm gonna, yeah, I'm gonna cash in my 401k. I'm going to go all in. And I think when you do, it's like, it's like the universe sees you, you know, the universe is like, okay, this motherfucker's serious. So. Throw, let's throw'em a bone, let's set that meeting up for them. Like that's where the, the synchronicities and the miracles just kind of start to happen, but they don't happen when you're like dipping your toe in.

Track 1: 7:52

Exactly. Yeah.

Nik: 7:53

Yeah. Yeah. I love that. so okay, let's talk about what do you really do as a manager? What's your day to day?'cause I think a lot of people think they want a manager. They think they, they need a manager. But what does a manager actually do?

Track 1: 8:08

So, I mean, my position now where I'm at is a bit different than when I was just solely managing'cause I. I'm the CEO of a management company. So that comes with a whole lot of roles and responsibilities that I wasn't even aware of when I decided to start my own management company. But on a management aspect as a whole, like what I'm doing is I'm overseeing everything that's happening around the artists on the business side of things. I'm making sure that they have a proper team around them to go execute the various things that they need. relationship building is definitely a big part of it. Brand strategy, touring strategy. we do a little bit of a and ing, but I have been blessed in the fact that most of, I would say actually all of my artists have a really good understanding of what their sound is. And so, um, it's just more so, you know, do we think that this is a hit and it's worth continuing on, or is this something that we potentially look at a collaborate, uh, collaborator or is this something that maybe we just revisit later? but we're really like. My management company is basically a one-stop shop. that's the way that I've kind of tried to build it so the artists can just focus on their art and everything else they can come to us for, or we can go outsource if we need to.

Nik: 9:25

Hmm. Yeah. What a dream to be able to just only be able to focus on making art and not have to be doing everything else by yourself. Right. Uh, I think that's, I think that's the dream for a lot of artists. And so, I do wanna get into, you know, like the actual. Strategies that you use to help artists get to that next level, to turn that, that daydream into the day job. Uh, but be, but before we get there, I think both you and I know it's, it's, it's about more than just the music and the marketing and the branding. You know, I personally, as a coach, and I still just consider myself a, a life coach. I'm really helping people with their, their mindset and their life. There is. Underneath all of it, like who you are as a person, right? If that's not really there, then it doesn't matter if your music is good. It doesn't matter if your brand is good, like you gotta be the right kind of person in the first place. So I'm curious about what are some of the qualities and the characteristics that you see that are common in the most successful artists that you know?

Track 1: 10:33

You know, it kind of differs because I think that a lot of artists, a lot of different artists bring a lot of different things to the table. There's some artists that are just so uniquely themselves are impossible to ignore, right? And then there's other artists that have this mystique about them where you just need to know more. And maybe that information's not readily available, but at the end of the day, there has to be some sort of magnetism of you. Feel attracted to the person in a sense of like, you're invested in them in some sort of way and you wanna find out, you know, what's next for them.

Nik: 11:11

Yeah. What is it that you think makes them attractive? Like, is it confidence? You know, is is that, I feel like that's gotta be maybe like an ingredient in the recipe. You know, like, what's that? What's that thing that makes somebody, there's like that it factor,

Track 1: 11:26

for sure.

Nik: 11:26

have and you just kind of know like, this person is a star. What is that? What's the, what are the ingredients that are part of that?

Track 1: 11:33

I mean there's a lot, I would say confidence is definitely one of them, but not so much confidence to the point of ego, but just like a genuine, like I'm confident I know who I am as a person. I feel proud of my art. a drive like there is really just a part of this where like. You have to do it by any means necessary, and that is what's gonna separate a lot of people.'cause the ones that are dipping their toes in, like you're just, it's really hard to get your footing if you've only got one toe in the water. Uh,

Nik: 12:06

Yeah, well said.

Track 1: 12:07

um, definitely people who are, you know, willing to go, create connections for themselves, like not so reliant on other people. Um, I think that there's a lot of artists who think if they lock themselves in the bedroom and just create the best art in the entire world, that that will eventually get them to where they wanna be. And the reality of the scenarios nowadays, like. Your network is equally as important as the art and so is the way that you market it, and it's kind of that three headed beast that's gonna, you know, help you rise above the noise.

Nik: 12:40

So I have a bit of a framework that I actually developed as I was once I started this podcast and I started talking to guys like Henry Fong and, and guests and industry people, and I, I just. Recognize a little bit of a, of a pattern and what I call like the really five pillars to artistic success and, and the first one that I put down is the mindset piece of like, Yeah. you gotta be confident, you gotta be driven. I like that you said like, this is something you have to do, right? Not something you want to do. It's like when you have that deeper level of drive, like, I have to do this and I have no fucking choice,

Track 1: 13:16

Yeah. It's your Soul Drive.

Nik: 13:18

This is why I am here. This is why I was born. I have no choice but to create and do this thing. Right. So there's that. That's what I put in that first kind of stage is the mindset. and then there's the music. Obviously you have to have great music. You have to have a great brand, which is the third, have good marketing, which is number four, and then be, and then also have really good networking, which is number five. Is there anything else that you would add to that,

Track 1: 13:42

I would say the connection to the fans, like, I think that people like oftentimes are so focused on. I'm gonna create the art that I wanna create, and I'm gonna put it into the world. And whoever likes it, likes it, and whoever doesn't, doesn't matter. And the reality of the scenario is there's gonna be fans for anything, but are you going out of your way to curate a relationship with them? Are you giving back to the fans as much as they're giving you? Because the fans are the one that pays everybody's bills at the end of the day. They're the ones streaming your music. They're the one buying tickets to the shows. They're the one. You know, buying your merch or subscribing to your Patreon or doing any of these other things. And I think a lot of times the fans get slighted in the fact of like the artist is so focused on what it is that they wanna do, but you look at people like Taylor Swift who are now the most powerful people in the entire music industry. And that's because her fans ride for her because she gives back to her fans. And like without that like. cult following is, I guess a good way to put it. you know, there there's a, a distinct separation between artists who are good and artists that could be great. I.

Nik: 14:53

Hmm. Yeah, yeah. Well said. So what is it that helps an artist really create that deeper level of connection and fan loyalty and cult following?

Track 1: 15:05

I mean, it's definitely like effort, but just even, I think a lot of fans will wait around after shows for pictures, right? Fans will DM you, they will comment at you, some send fan letters. I don't think that that's as relevant as it used to be. but you know, that is the dms nowadays, right? So just having like, you're gonna sit on your phone and scroll through social media for however many hours anybody's willing to admit that they do that these days. Like, go in your dms and respond to the fans, or respond to comments, or go live and have a conversation with your fans. Be willing to hang out after shows and take pictures with anybody that's willing to hang out after the show to take a picture with you. What takes you five minutes could literally change somebody's life.

Nik: 15:51

Do you remember getting like your first tweet liked by one of your favorite artists?

Track 1: 15:56

A hundred percent I do. Yeah.

Nik: 15:58

God, they liked my tweet. Like, how good did that feel? Right. We

Track 1: 16:02

Is the best feeling in the entire world. And I think that so many, you know, artists nowadays, were those fans, right? And that's something that I try to impress on my artists is what would you have wanted your favorite artists to do for you?

Nik: 16:16

Hmm.

Track 1: 16:16

Do that for your fans, whatever that is.

Nik: 16:19

Yeah, yeah. That's really cool. What else is it about artists on the personality and mindset side that really makes them successful?

Track 1: 16:33

I mean, yeah, going back to the confidence piece, it's just the way that they carry themselves, the way that they speak, the way that you dress, the way that you're presenting yourself to the world. Um, and if, I mean, that comes in a lot of different facets, right? I think that the art that you create is obviously very important. Um, but it's just, it's really hard to tell what individual things will make an artist stand out because it's so, I feel like it's so different for everybody. There's just sometimes where like. You meet somebody and you have no idea what it is about that person, but you're just that magnetic pull of like, there's something about them that's that it factor that's so hard to define. but it could be the way that they translate in videos or pictures or through their art specifically or the way that they're walking down the street or drinking their coffee. there's just some sort of magnetism.

Nik: 17:29

You know, I just interviewed, uh, Ben Hogan a couple weeks ago. Uh, booking agent from UTA. Another great episode. I think one of the best that we've had so far. Everybody go check that one out. A lot of good behind the scenes information about. what it takes to get an agent and all of that. But he called it the, uh, he said the same exact thing. He said, when I get on a Zoom with somebody within like 30 minutes, I just know, uh, he called it the, the, I had to Google, I had to Google that to figure out what that was. Yeah, yeah. Uh, but it's like, it's like that, that, that kind of, that X factor. But I think that that is, it's not something that can be. Manufactured or manipulated right now. So it's like anyone that's listening that's like, oh, I need to go figure out my XFactor. Like, you can't go create it. You have to just, it really boils down to authenticity.

Track 1: 18:16

A hundred

Nik: 18:16

I am doing me so well and nobody else can do me. And I, like you said, like you know who you are and you know what you're about. And when you, when you own that, there is some confidence that comes with that. There is this like authenticity where just like, yo, this. This motherfucker is just in his lane or her lane. And like, if it's cool, you know, but it's tricky'cause it's like I don't want anyone to go out there to go try to find that.'cause you can't, you just can't create that, you know, you have to just be authentic.

Track 1: 18:46

Yeah, I think it's just self-reflection at the end of the day, right? Like when you're sitting alone in your room, who are you and how do you wanna present yourself to the world? Go be that person in your everyday life and make an effort to make connections as yourself. I think people will just genuinely gravitate towards somebody who they know doesn't have ulterior motives, isn't putting on a a different face, somebody that's trustworthy and just like down for the cause,

Nik: 19:14

Yeah, yeah. Totally. let's get into the, the, no pun intended. Let's get into the nitty gritty,

Track 1: 19:21

the nitty gritty. I knew it was coming.

Nik: 19:24

let's talk about what it actually takes to turn this passion and this hobby into a, a full-time career. Right. And I know that's a very broad, very long conversation, but I guess like where, where do we start? You know, for an artist that is. Young and up and coming. Maybe they don't have a manager yet, or, or maybe they do, but they're still working towards turning this into the, the full-time thing. Turning this from the daydream into the day job. where do we start? What's step number one?

Track 1: 19:59

think step number one is the same for any business. It's what's the product? What are you selling, you know what I mean? And whether that's if you're not a producer. Yet, which I think everybody, you know, at some point you have to figure out the production element to be an artist in current days. if that's just your sets, like what is it about your sets that sets you apart or what it is it, what is it about your content that sets you apart or. Your productions or you know, any of those things is what's the product? What are you selling? Because once you know that, then you can go have conversations around it. But until you've identified at least what's the singular piece that separates you from everybody else, I think you're gonna have a hard time.

Nik: 20:41

Yeah. How do you differentiate yourself in the marketplace?

Track 1: 20:45

Yeah, and I think a lot of that comes down to the authentic au authenticity portion of that.

Nik: 20:52

Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Okay. So having a great product, understanding what it is that you're bringing to the table, how you're doing it differently in, in, in a unique way. the music, the content, for you as a manager and your artist, you said like they've pretty much got that part down. It sounds like, like you said, you, you don't really help so much with like the a and r side of it. Like is that more so on the artist to really figure out, or do you as a manager also really help them figure out kind of that differentiating factor?

Track 1: 21:26

It depends. like there's some artists, like I work with a lot of artists who are very versatile in their productions and then they can make a lot of different types of music. and so I think that over the years I. We've been able to figure out, you know, if there's one specific direction that's resonating with fans more than others, or if there's one specific direction that's resonating with the artist more than others. I think that those are the two pillars that you wanna kind of look at is you're either going to go create something that. Every single day you're down to wake up and go create. Or if you're down for whatever, then just go create things that are working and that fans are, you know, kind of expecting and wanting from you. so once you've identified one of those two things and it's, it becomes easy, but getting to that point of what is fulfilling for yourself or what the fans want from you, that's a, a really difficult journey and oftentimes takes a a long time to figure out.

Nik: 22:26

Yeah. Yeah. It takes a lot of experimentation as well, like like you gotta put stuff out if you want to see what's resonating. I think that this is something I've been seeing a lot of people, I. Struggle with.'cause I think there's a lot of, I don't know, perfectionism, wanting to do it the right way, wanting to like get everything dialed in, imperfect. And I don't know. I think the only way you're gonna know what works is just to put shit out and see what works.

Track 1: 22:51

we started doing this practice with all the artists that I think has been really helpful. And that's, it can be done with a management team, it can be done with a, a circle of friends, but it's just compiling all of the music that you have. Then doing a listening session. we created this spreadsheet and everybody just kind of, you know, rank, I don't wanna say ranks, but kind of says like, these are the songs that really stand out. These are the ones I don't think are quite there yet. These are the ones that, you know, we could do without, and. A lot of different opinions coming into one place, you're able to see, okay, a lot of people resonated with this, or only a certain amount of people resonated with this. so you're able to kind of look at it objectively on a larger scope of like, what is it that, you know, more people are expecting out of me or feel, they feel feels like. The product I should be creating. and that's been like, it's been very eye-opening.

Nik: 23:51

Hmm. Yeah. And that's, that is like consisting of your management team

Track 1: 23:56

Yeah. So,

Nik: 23:57

the feedback. Yeah.

Track 1: 23:59

And we have a lot of different people in the management team. We have people who are doing social media and marketing, pr, uh, administrative stuff. so it all varies and we're all fans of different kinds of music, and so it's just like when you hear, you know, a Henry Fung song, what, what of These Stand Out as a Great Henry Fung song? And it's not that the song may not be great, the song may be great for a different artist or it may be another collaborator, but uh, being able to look at it under that lens has been incredibly helpful and I think has kind of set the artists up for the year that a lot of them are about to have.

Nik: 24:35

Hmm. Love that. So having kind of an inner circle that can give some real feedback. Right.

Track 1: 24:43

I can be friends, family, girlfriends, whomever.

Nik: 24:46

I was, yeah, I was gonna say having some diversity in that feedback too. Maybe don't send it to your five house music

Track 1: 24:53

Exactly. Yeah.

Nik: 24:55

but like, have, have some different flavors in there too.

Track 1: 24:58

Yeah, that, that part is very important because otherwise you're gonna have a, you know, a bias survey, so to speak.

Nik: 25:06

Yeah. Love that. Yeah, we, we used to always call that like the girlfriend test,

Track 1: 25:11

Mm-Hmm.

Nik: 25:12

it was like we'd have like a girlfriend that didn't really, wasn't really in the scene, you know, but if she would like be into the song, we're like, oh, that's a good sign. You know, that like, even kind of non EDM friends, friends are gonna like this. So

25:26

Hey, what's up you guys? This is Nick, and if you are looking to find that inner circle of people to get feedback from on your music, I've got the perfect opportunity for you. You've probably heard me dropping hints about this, but we are officially launching the Headliner Mindset Coaching Group in two weeks on Monday. February 26th, let's go baby. I know that the artist's path can be lonely, especially as a music producer spending countless hours in your bedroom hitting creative blocks, losing motivation, and trying to figure out how this crazy ass music business works. But the cool thing is you don't have to do this alone. I've put together an eight week program where I will personally be coaching a small group of 10 artists to help you get your life, your mindset, your productivity, and your music dialed in. Each week we'll have video lessons, exercises, challenges, and not one, but two coaching calls every single week. Where you can ask questions and get support. We're also gonna have monthly guest speakers. Some of my artists and industry friends are gonna come through. And the best part is once you go through these eight weeks, you will get access to the coaching calls and also our private discord forever. Because this really is a community here that I'm building. Once you are in, you're in, you're part of the family, and not only will I be there to support you, but this entire community will be as well. I've already ran 10 people through the program and we had a blast. Seriously, there were countless breakthroughs. Everybody leveled up, and I am just honestly so excited to launch this next round. So if you're interested, shoot me a message on Instagram. We're already about halfway full, and I expect these last few spots to fill up pretty quick. So hit me up. And as I always say, let's fucking go.

Nik: 27:13

cool. Okay. So getting that product really dialed in. Okay. So once you, once you have the product, then what, where do we go from there?

Track 1: 27:21

Well, then you gotta identify who you're selling it to and how you're packaging it. and so those are two separate lines that kind of, I think. Who you're selling it to is more important than how you package it, because who you're selling it to will determine how you package it, so to speak. So figuring out who are the people you know, what is my lane? Who are other artists in this specific lane? What. You know, where are their fan bases from? Like, there's a huge dubstep community in the Midwest. In the Midwest, and you know, that house scene in Miami is completely different than it is in a lot of other places. so just being aware of, you know, who your competitors are, so to speak. I like to think of them more as collaborators, and that's just room for opportunity. how have they become successful? Who's resonating with what they're creating? And that'll kind of tell you at least who you're gonna go sell the product to, and you just figure out how to package it in a way that feels good to you

Nik: 28:25

Yeah.

Track 1: 28:25

and that they will receive well.

Nik: 28:28

can you give me an example of. Identifying really, we're talking about like identifying your target market,

Track 1: 28:35

Yeah, exactly.

Nik: 28:36

business terms. So can we go a little bit deeper into that? Like,'cause I, I, I think this is, this is something that a lot of artists really don't think about. I think it's, it's a good thing to touch on is like, I think a lot of artists are like, oh, I made a track. I'm gonna just go throw it out there and hopefully people listen to it and like it, all Right. But, but what you're talking about is really identifying like, who are the people that are actually really gonna be into this, right? Like, who are, who are your people? Who are your, your potential fans, your, your target market? How do we identify them? How do we find those people in the first place?

Track 1: 29:12

So we have another practice where we do, um, like artist associations where it's like, would you be willing to go tour with this person? Would you be willing to create music with this person? and so that kind of gives you a general outline of the direction that you're going, right? Is looking at your peers and figuring out who aligns. Like, even if it's not a direct. Correlation, could you do something cool together? Because then you're gonna have kind of those outlier markets, the more gray area that you could potentially bring in. Um, so once you figure out, you know, there's, there's genres and artists out there in every capacity. So just figuring out, you know, where your home base is. we pulled together a list of 200 different artists and dove into their social media and their branding and their Spotify, and listened to their mixes and you know, is this somebody that will go play my song?

Nik: 30:14

Mm-Hmm.

Track 1: 30:15

Send them the song is this, or go in their comment section and start talking to their fans. the social media game is so interesting now, like you can really access anybody very quickly if you are going to the right places. So I would just start with who are my peers that. This would potentially align with and go try to create relationships, go to their shows. You're gonna meet a ton of fans that could potentially transition into your fans at one of their shows. the comment section goes down in the dms, like you can definitely find ways to figure it out.

Nik: 30:50

So yeah, finding, where your people are, who your people are, looking at the fan bases of other artists that are similar to your sound. Obviously if those people like these artists, they're probably gonna like you. Uh, and then you said, Packaging the product. So what does packaging mean?

Track 1: 31:09

I mean, that's where you're gonna get into the whole branding side of everything, your logo, your look, the colors that you're associating with you, what your cover arts look like, the content that you're creating. used to be music videos, but not so much any more. Uh, more so like short form style of content, but. You know, you can't just throw a song out into the world and assume that, you know, it's just gonna go crazy. There is something that it's required. I. To get on the DSPs, you need certain things on social media. There's a whole level of marketing and promotion that like you're seeing some of the smallest artists turn into the biggest artists overnight simply because of the way that they were able to package their music. I. It promoted the same, you know, eight words of a song for five months straight, every single post, and then all of a sudden that song goes number one and does 40 million streams in a day. It's really interesting time, but packaging is of the utmost importance I think right now.

Nik: 32:12

how do you, in your own words, how do you define what a brand is? Because I feel like it's this sort of like enig, it's like it is the visual representation, but it's a little bit more than that. Like how do you define a brand? If you were trying, if you were explaining it to somebody that didn't really know what a brand was, how do you define it?

Track 1: 32:29

So I would define it as the overall look and feel of. The project. and I think that that also goes into the way that you're communicating with fans is a part of it. Uh, the music that you're creating is definitely a part of it. and then there's obviously the, the more visual element. As far as like colors and fonts and, you know, what's your logo look like and those sorts of things. But branding is, is very enigmatic in that sense of like, it's very difficult to nail down. And I think once you found that sweet spot of all of these things align, and that was something that, uh, Paul Campbell taught me pretty early on, is that there's just certain things that need to align with the brand and that's, does the music that you're making communicate. the way that you're communicating with the fans, the sets that you're playing, the way that you look, and the more visual representation elements. if all of those things are aligned, then you have the basis for a really good brand.

Nik: 33:35

Yeah. Yeah. They need to be cohesive, right? Yeah, for sure. I love, I love branding. for those of you that have been listening, you've heard me talk about branding a lot. work with the cult creatives on the side, which is a really cool branding and marketing agency. So if y'all wanna learn about some branding, hit me up. We got you covered over there. Um, but it is, it is. Shout out to Cole. Have you, have you worked with Cole

Track 1: 33:59

yeah, we work with, yeah, we work with Chris on a couple different projects. Yeah, that's a dude.

Nik: 34:05

Oh, yeah. All right. We're, we're all family here. Chris, Chris was the first DJ I ever managed,

Track 1: 34:09

Oh, really? No

Nik: 34:11

he, he got, he introduced me to Icon Collective, where I spent seven years of, of my career. So that, that guy's, my fucking brother right there. Uh, we have an episode as well. Everyone go listen to if you wanna learn more about branding and have a, have a deep dive into that, go listen to the episode with, uh, with Chris White from the Cult. Creatives. Uh, this is awesome. We got a, we got a client right here on, on the call right now. Let's go. Great stuff. okay, so we got, we got music dialed in. We got a nice, sexy little package that we're putting this thing in. Now we've, it's all cohesive. We're building a really good brand. do we do next? How do we, how do we now start really making progress and building buzz and demand and getting the word out about what we're doing?

Track 1: 34:54

I think once you have those things in place, That's the time that you really wanna start putting a team around you. because you can't do everything. And a lot of those things will come by working with other people, like the cult creative conversation for branding for instance. that's, you know, if you're an artist and you're able to. Go create the music and know exactly what content you wanna create and also all the visual, visual elements, then great. But think that those people are few and far between. But if you can at least have the definition of the vision that you're going for, then finding those people to put in place to go help you execute that. and those are gonna also be the people that are advocating for you. Daily, you know, they're having conversations about you, they're excited about what's going on, and they're communicating with their networks and through other people is how you expand your network.

Nik: 35:49

So who are some of the first team members that we want to find as we're building this team?

Track 1: 35:56

It depends on the direction that you're going. it, I would say that if you have a heavy content focus, the first person I would try to find is like a videographer and a video editor, because those are gonna be the people that are, you know, helping you knock out the daily stuff. Your time is not gonna be. Best spent editing videos. but if you're not a content creator, so to speak, and you are creating a bunch of music, then somebody on an a and r side, to kind of help you bounce those ideas off of that, have different relationships with various labels, if you're just absolutely crushing your sets, then I would be finding somebody who's very involved. With promoters and talent buyers and potential agents. we were able to put, uh, together a world tour for Nitty with no agent, uh, based off of, you know, our internal connections. And that was kind of what led to the agency conversation and everything. But that was just. A result of, you know, a team of people with a network and us all being really excited about the project and having conversations. So don't think that you can't release music'cause you're not assigned to a label or you can't go on tour'cause you don't have an agent, or you can't have a successful career because you don't have a manager. It's just being able to pull whatever resources that you have together and build that network until you get to the point that you feel comfortable and then just go all in.

Nik: 37:24

Hmm. I love that. So that networking piece is coming up now, and I think that that is so huge, as they say, your network is your net worth. I mean, I. Moved to LA with like a thousand dollars and a skateboard and I knew one person, you know, and had my own office at Capitol Records by the end of the year purely off of getting out there and fucking shaking hands and building my network. So what are some tips that you have for networking?

Track 1: 37:53

I mean, you just have to get out there. It, it's, you can network online, but there's just a difference of being in people's faces and having a conversation and then having like a connection with you that can't be done through the phone. Like you can have internet friends and people that will advocate for you, but like. You go have lunch with somebody and it's a really good conversation and you download them on everything that you're going, that you have going on, they're gonna go have that conversation with other people. And it's like, I just, I cannot express how important it's to go be involved in the scene. If you are in a place where there's not a very big local scene, like save some money and invest to going to a music festival, like be doing everything that you can to go meet other people that are. Like-minded individuals that are gonna be down for your mission and advocate for you. And if you continue to do that, it just, it expands so rapidly because every single touchpoint that you have also has a network, and it's gonna spread in all those individual touchpoint.

Nik: 39:00

Yeah. I like that you bring that up because. On the one hand, yeah, it's great to live in LA and be able to go to all the clubs, and that's obviously a, a hotspot or, you know, New York or Miami or maybe some of those bigger cities. But if you don't, if you are listening from, but fuck nowhere Kansas right now, like you said, save up your money. Go to Miami Music Week. There's a week where every industry person is out there every year. If you want to go to Europe, go to Amsterdam dance event, go to a DE, go meet every record label. Go to uh, EDC

Track 1: 39:34

Vegas.

Nik: 39:34

whatever Vegas week they have out there. You know, there's, there's, it's like the entire industry are in those three cities once a year. So you could just go to those and still do pretty damn well, you know, you can set up some of those connections online, but to really lock'em in and like you said, go get coffee or go get lunch or go have a beer with somebody. Like, that's where those, those relationships become friendships and like, we all want to help our friends. Right? Like, I'll, I'll, I'll bend over backwards to support my friends. And that's, I think where, where we ultimately want to get to. Right?

Track 1: 40:07

Yeah, definitely. It's hard to ignore somebody that's just been in your face. You know, a lot of times it's like an opportunity comes up and you just immediately go think of whatever's the freshest thought. And so if you are far away and you know, you can just constantly like be commenting or just be supportive. Show your support, I think is a big thing.'cause people that feel support from you are more inclined to give support in return.

Nik: 40:35

Hmm. Yeah. Yeah. It's about what you can give, right? If you're only out there just asking for favors and trying to take,

Track 1: 40:41

Don't do that.

Nik: 40:42

just, yeah. Yeah. You're not gonna get very far in the industry or in life. Yeah. Well, now I was just talking about this with, I think one of my clients, because I also do think that there is a lot of value in. Having a, on just the online presence, right? Where, you know, let's say we meet and we have lunch and maybe nothing happens in that moment. Maybe it's, it's, it's more of a just planting the seed, but then I. You know, maybe I was in your dms and we had a conversation, even just through the algorithm, my stories are now gonna pop up and my content is now gonna pop up more. So it's like, we might not be doing business in that moment, but you just keep seeing my name pop up, even like unconsciously, and then you're kind of, you know, kind of a top of mind for, for, for people that way. And I'm just seeing this so much with the podcast too, where people are just like, oh dude, I'm, I'm seeing the clips, I'm seeing your stuff. So, um, don't want to discredit like also be online too and, and just be showing up and, and building your brand and putting your stuff out too.'cause people are watching, you know, you can go look at your stories. You're like, oh, this motherfucker's watching all my stories. He doesn't say nothing, but he is watching it.

Track 1: 41:53

right. I mean, but even jumping in the dms or, you know, making the comments or whatever, even that sort of exchange, I think goes a lot further than just mindlessly scrolling through people's stories. Uh, and it just goes back to that touch point of like, I. I look at everybody that you meet as a puzzle piece, and you may not know where it fits in the moment, but if you hold onto it, you'll find the right place for it. And so just being a puzzle piece for other people is also very important, right? And it's like, yo, I'm just, I'm here. I'm available when it makes sense. Let's find a way to work together.

Nik: 42:27

Yeah, and this is where I think it comes back to you have a roster of like really good people, right? Like good people. They're humble. I can't say enough great things about Henry. He's just a solid fucking dude, right? And so. Just, I, I, I hate that I even have to say this, but just being a good person

Track 1: 42:49

it goes a

Nik: 42:49

can get you, can get you really far. It goes a long way. And, uh, be a person that is of service and just is cool and isn't just there, you know, is, is contributing and I dunno, being genuine, being humble, you know, like all that stuff. It goes really far,

Track 1: 43:06

There's plenty of ego in this industry.

Nik: 43:09

Right.

Track 1: 43:10

of it. You'd be remiss to not find it somewhere. Uh, but that, I think it makes people stand out. You know, I. It was like, oh wow, that person was just a really genuine, nice person. You know, they didn't have any ulterior motives. I didn't feel used. and that is, that is one of the biggest things that we look for.'cause I've, I've worked with a lot of artists over the years, you know, and, I think that the ones that I always find myself gravitating towards are just the ones that like, feel like friends and family, because those are the ones that you're just, you're down to ride till the wheels fall off.

Nik: 43:45

Yeah. Yeah. And you know, you know what it is, it is seeing somebody as the person that they actually are, not as the job that they do. Right. Where. You know, when I see one of my artist friends, I'm like, I'm not gonna call you your artist's name. I'm gonna call you. I'm talking to John. You know, I'm not talking to the fucking brand right now. we oftentimes don't though, you know, when you're like at a show, you're backstage, it's like all, all the talk is industry shit. What are you working on? What project's going on? It's like, okay, cool. That's just, that's just my, my job role, talking to your job role. But when Nick actually gets to talk to Corinne. We get to have a real human to human connection. It's wild. But at least from my experience coming up in the industry, it was almost like that was so rare when I would be with somebody and I'd meet them and you know, we used to go to control all the time. You know, that was the Friday night party at Avalon. Yeah. That was like every Friday night we're out there and everyone's talking about all this, all the, all this, you know, their career stuff that they're doing, and it was like. I would just be like, Hey, how are you doing? You know, like, like how, like, what's going on with you? And, and, and just also showing like a genuine curiosity. Not necessarily about what you do, but like who, who you are, you know? And it's, it's just a, it's just a different level of, I dunno, like emotional intelligence and, and um, just depth that it, it almost like cap captures people off guard

Track 1: 45:15

well, especially in la because everybody, the first question is what do you do?

Nik: 45:21

Yeah.

Track 1: 45:22

There's a lot of other questions to ask,

Nik: 45:25

I wanna know who you are,

Track 1: 45:26

or how are you

Nik: 45:27

do, or how, or how you are. Yeah. Like, whoa, what a concept. Yeah, it's wild. I, I live in, I live in Texas now. I'm here, I'm out of the, I'm out of the industry. I'm outta la and it's like, we're in the fucking south where it's like, Hey, how you doing?

Track 1: 45:40

yeah, exactly. How are you?

Nik: 45:42

each other? There's like this southern hospitality people wave, they talk to each other in line and stuff and it's like, just treat each other like humans a little bit more than products. You know? It go goes a long

Track 1: 45:54

definitely.

Nik: 45:56

Yeah. So I'm really curious about what are some of the challenges that you see. Artists go through artists that are at that level of touring. Don't have to drop names, but people on the roster.'cause as a manager, you're, you're, I know you're also a bit of a therapist too. That's the role that a lot of managers get to play is, you know, helping with like the, just the, the human side of it that, that we're talking about as well. It's not just about running a business, but. As an artist, like you are the business, as a life coach and someone that works specifically with artists, I'm always very curious to know like, what on the, on the life and human side do you see people get challenged by on, on their journey with success?

Track 1: 46:45

I mean, there's obviously like the personal element to it, right? Like friends, family, we're getting older. Like that whole family dynamic is just always going to impact any individual. Um, and I say family loosely, whether that's your closest friends or you know, your parents or siblings, or. Whoever the case may be. there's just other people that have an impact on your life and that you also want to make sure that you're showing up in their life and retaining those relationships. So that's always like kind of the push and pull of needing to be on the road so many days a year. And when you're not in the road, you're in the studio. And when you're not in the road or in the studio, you're creating content. it's like, okay, well where does, where does a girlfriend or a wife or you know, a child or you know, friends or family or any of those things fit into the equation? And that's definitely. it's hard on the artists for sure because they're being pulled in so many different directions and they are the product at the end of the day. how do you be Yeah, so many things, to so many people all at once. Um, and then the touring obviously is just draining.

Nik: 47:56

yeah, have you found a solution for that? Is there a way to balance it all? How do you see people doing well with that?

Track 1: 48:04

I mean, it comes down to scheduling. I think a lot in life can be solved by scheduling. you know what I mean? Like if you're able to just, I. Specifically dedicate a day towards music and content and you know, a day for family and relationships and mental health is a huge thing. And then, you know, like. Two or three days a week, you're gonna be on the road. but making sure that you have time to mentally reset is the single most important thing that any artist can do. And then keeping yourself busy otherwise, and making sure, kind of like you're checking all of the boxes of the various things that you need to do as an artist, but as a human being as well.

Nik: 48:43

yeah. I think that's, that scheduling piece is important. And then it's also like. Being a hundred percent in on whatever it is that you're doing. You know, a trap, A trap that I see people fall into a lot is maybe they're working on music or they should be working on music, but then they're feeling guilty about not being with their partner. So. They're not actually really fully a hundred percent in on the music and like the task at hand. And then let's say, then it's the next day and it's like, okay, now it's the time to spend with my partner. But then they're thinking about the studio and being like, oh, I should be, I should be in the studio working on music. So it's like they're not actually a hundred percent present. Like when you're with your partner, be with your partner, be with your kids, be with your family. You gotta learn how to completely. Be a hundred percent present. Give it the time and energy that it deserves. But also same thing in the studio. It's like, yo, block out the fucking world. Get your shit done. Be super focused. Don't be doom scrolling. You know, don't be getting distracted. And easier said than done. Like I'm like nowhere close to being efficient at that. You know what I mean? But

Track 1: 49:49

It is definitely a, it's a learning process I think for everybody, but I, you do bring up the best point of just being totally present in the moment. And I think if subconsciously, you know, and also it has been communicated. To whoever the circle is around you, that this time is specifically dedicated towards whatever, but there is also time that's specifically dedicated towards all of these other needs, and so then there's a sense of security across the board of I don't have to feel guilty because I'm not spending time with my partner because I will be spending time with my partner, not distracted by anything else at this point in time. Um, and I think that there's just a lot of, like, you'll find that there's a lot of pushback from, you know, girlfriends want more time or whatever the case may be. But you also have to, yo, this is the time that we have and like, I'm gonna go a hundred percent all in on spending this time with you, but just also respect when I'm in the studio that I have to go a hundred percent in that as well.

Nik: 50:54

yeah. Having a partner that understands that is really important. Also, being able to really, I love that you mentioned just the communication though. Just like communicating what the, what the expectations are and what your needs are. Like I need to be a hundred percent unplugged and focused and, uh, please understand that and, and, you know, knowing that this is what you're getting into, and then having those strong boundaries to stay committed to that, and then also having integrity. To show up and then be a hundred percent with your partner or, or your family when you say you're going to also, you can't be like canceling, you know, they're not gonna trust you if you're then bailing and canceling plans and shit. Like, you gotta have that integrity too. So, yeah. And so then you said, yeah, fam, family challenges, relationship challenges, man, you know, managing that time. Uh, and then also just the challenges of touring.

Track 1: 51:45

touring's expensive and it's tiring. And you know, you get these like. Really strong dopamine hits for. A small window of time and everything else is just, uh, it's a lot of work around it and it takes a specific type of person to be able to tour regularly. It's definitely not cut out for everyone. I've been touring for a long time and I have seen the people that just absolutely thrive in that space, and I've seen the people wear just. It eats them up and they're not really about it. so I think figuring out if you're that type of artist who is down to be touring all the time or if you're not, is gonna help set you up for the future that you want versus the future that you get.'cause you can be a lot more selective with things and, you know, ask for higher fees and everything else. If you're not down to go tour three days a week, four weeks outta the month, 12 months out of the year. Um, but it's exhausting and it's lonely. And that's also why having a team is so important is like you are away from your friends and family and you know, it's difficult when you are by yourself. which I would encourage everybody as soon as it's financially possible for you to have a. A touring partner in whatever capacity that is, a tour manager, a videographer, or just somebody that you know in those markets where you can go and link up with them and get some face time. Because when you just show up and you're straight off the plane, into the hotel, into the bed to work on music or turn the TV on and then go to the show and come back it, it's really difficult mentally.

Nik: 53:26

I like that you said to figure out if this is right for you and if you're that type of person. I. Because I really love this quote. I think it was from Stephen Covey's, uh, seven Habits of Highly Effective People, and he said, you don't want to climb the ladder of success and then realize that that ladder was leaning against the wrong wall. Right. And that's something to really think about. Like, do I want to climb this ladder? Do I want that lifestyle? Is that really what I want? And, and I've, I've talked to a good, you know, handful of. Artists and, uh, even industry people as well that are just like, yeah, I realize that that isn't really the life that I want. You know?

Track 1: 54:10

And they find out years later.

Nik: 54:13

yeah. Yeah. So, uh, and that might also be the only way to know is to go out there and do it, you know, and actually experience it. but it's something to think about too, like what are, what are you, you know, under really being honest and understanding. About what that lifestyle entails. You know, uh, I've seen Laid back, Luke has some really good videos on his YouTube channel where he really like peels the curtain back and he's like, Hey, like, this is what it really looks like to be on the road. And like this is like the financial breakdown and this is like what it actually really, you know, really comes with. So, think that's a good, yeah. Good dis, good thing to think about and a good discussion to open up for. Sure. my final question for you is, uh, what are you excited about right now? What's, what are you lit up by and what are you looking forward to?

Track 1: 55:01

oh. We have so much amazing music about to roll out. that's my favorite thing about, you know, the variety of artists that we work with, is that there's just so much different style of music, um, that's coming out. We're doing a lot of really cool festivals. Miami Music Week, I'm very excited about. That's always one of my favorite weeks of the year. We're doing some curated parties specifically for some of the artists, and we always get a big team house and everybody flies in and just kind of spend the week together. So that's always a really good bonding time. It's definitely

Nik: 55:35

company retreat.

Track 1: 55:36

yeah, exactly. It's a very productive and just like. Especially with everybody being so widespread, like I have team members all over the country and in Canada. So for everybody to get together for a week and just go do what everybody loves to do and see the fruit of our labors is, is always awesome. And then some tours in the fall and you know, business as usual.

Nik: 55:59

Yeah, and for those of you that are just listening on. Spotify or Apple or whatever you're listening to. I wish you could see the way that Corinn just lit up and like, just smiled so big and got so excited as, as she was talking about what's coming up and all this music. And I can tell that you are really genuinely passionate about what you do and, and the people that you work with and that, uh, that's just really, really cool to see.'cause that's what it's all about. Like why, why are we doing this if we don't love it? You

Track 1: 56:29

Yeah, exactly.

Nik: 56:31

Yeah. Well, thank you so much for taking the time outta your busy schedule to hang out with us and to, you know, share your, your insights and your wisdom. It's really great to meet you. Not in person, but digitally. We'll, we'll, uh, we'll get lunch one of these days when I, when I make my way out to la, but, uh, you rock. Thank you so much for being here.

Track 1: 56:51

Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it. We'll see you soon.