Carlos Alcala is the EVP & Head of A&R at Thrive Music, one of the hottest record labels in the dance music industry right now. They've been putting out huge record from Tiesto, Acraze, Wuki, Moore Kimset and more.
In this episode we talk about what A&R people actually do, how hit songs come together, how to get signed, connecting with the culture and the importance of using social media and promoting your music (and the resistance many artists have to it).
Follow Carlos and Thrive here:
https://www.instagram.com/alcala.mp3
https://www.instagram.com/thrivemusic
https://www.thrivemusic.com
And visit my site to join the mailing list, book a free coaching call or get in touch:
https://www.nikcherwink.com
Carlos Alcala is the EVP & Head of A&R at Thrive Music, one of the hottest record labels in the dance music industry right now. They've been putting out huge record from Tiesto, Acraze, Wuki, Moore Kimset and more.
In this episode we talk about what A&R people actually do, how hit songs come together, how to get signed, connecting with the culture and the importance of using social media and promoting your music (and the resistance many artists have to it).
Follow Carlos and Thrive here:
https://www.instagram.com/alcala.mp3
https://www.instagram.com/thrivemusic
https://www.thrivemusic.com
And visit my site to join the mailing list, book a free coaching call or get in touch:
https://www.nikcherwink.com
we want to see like 20 to 30 posts pre-release of the song. you need to talk about it. it's unfortunate'cause like there's a lot of artists that, like, I've seen them post recently, like, I don't like promoting my music. It's cheesy. And I'm just like, at the end of the day, like, your fans are not gonna be excited about your music if you're not,
Nik (Detached audio):What's up everybody? Welcome to the Headliner Mindset podcast. Today's guest is the executive Vice president and head of a and r at one of Dance music's hottest record labels, thrive music. They've been consistently releasing massive tracks from artists like Ieso Craze and Wooki. This is Carlos Alcala.
Track 1:What's up? Thanks for having me.
Nik (Detached audio):My man. Good to see you, brother.
Track 1:good to see you bro.
Nik (Detached audio):I was trying to think,'cause so many of these conversations are like me having catchups with people I haven't talked to in 10 years, and I'm trying to remember how we connected in the first place. Were you, were you a, an artist before you were doing the label thing? Like where did, where did we know each other? Because
Track 1:yeah, yeah. I was, I was an artist. You were managing. I, I was doing a lot of co-production stuff, low key as well. And um, I was working with an artist, uh, APEC that you were managing.
Nik (Detached audio):Ah, Josh,
Track 1:Josh, It was Josh,
Nik (Detached audio):Long. Oh damn. Okay.
Track 1:we were, yeah, so that
Nik (Detached audio):house
Track 1:yeah. Yeah, I mean that, that was his thing, right? I mean, he had a lot of like the progressive big room stuff that he was working on. Um, but yeah, you're imagining him at the time there was a song. crime.
Nik (Detached audio):project?
Track 1:not night crime. Night Crime, Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, that, that sound of like, I was just kind of like on my way out of the duo. so I wasn't super cra I think I was probably the one that blocked it from coming out, to be honest. But I just, I was, I was at a point where I was kind of ready for the next chapter. but Josh, I loved him and he was super talented. yeah, yeah, for
Nik (Detached audio):out Josh.
Track 1:Yeah. Shout out I.
Nik (Detached audio):you're well. Uh, and so how did you transition into Thrive?
Track 1:Wow. Geez. 2014 was when I met Ricardo, who was the owner of the label. he was thinking about relaunching the label, thinking about managing artists. He wasn't really sure what he was gonna do. Um, he met myself and my old DJ partner and, unfortunately we didn't, like it didn't work out'cause I was kind of like I said, on my way out He offered me a position at this label that had not been relaunched yet, and it was like, would you ever consider working at a record label? And I was like, nah, dude. I'm trying to be an artist.
Nik (Detached audio):you wanna, you wanna know a kind of a funny secret. I actually got pitched for that job as well
Track 1:Yeah, I remember that.
Nik (Detached audio):I was working with the manager of the Black Eyed Peas and there was like a conversation of, uh, them launching the label and, and me potentially working over there. I, it's so long ago.
Track 1:so that circle, that circle is how I met Ricardo. So I was doing a lot of co-production, um, with this guy, DJ poet as well. Um, poet Peter Torres introduced me to Ricardo. around that time, um, I was doing a lot of sessions setting, a lot of kind of like being an a r consultant I guess, but without knowing that that was like a job. I was just doing it for fun. I had a really, like wide range of, you know, songwriters and producers that I worked with. And, um, when I met Ricardo, he was kind of like, you know that you, that's, you can get paid for that. That's like a job. So I was just like, well, why don't I do both for a little bit? So I did night crime and I did the thrive stuff, and then eventually I kind of just transitioned over.
Nik (Detached audio):All right. Well, enough of us catching up. Everybody that's listening is like, what, who the fuck are these people that these guys are talking about? Right. But a, a great segue into a and r You're talking about having connections with producers and songwriters. I don't think a lot of people really understand what an a and r person does. Can you tell me about what that role is
Track 1:Yeah, I mean, I guess in short, I would call it a professional dot connector. Right, because you, you know, a lot of people, you, you can do a lot, for people's careers with knowing these people. and, and at the end of the day, I mean, the, your biggest strength is your network, right? And who, you know, but really thinking like big picture wise, number one, there's like a few things, right, with a and r. There's like breaking down a record, knowing how to make a hit record, knowing how to make a record for a specific type of format too. There could be a club record, there could be a dance radio record, there could be whatever it is, you know. But understanding that and then understanding what it takes to make that, and that, that's the part that I think for me was like, the best thing coming from like being an artist before and being a DJ is understanding what works in the club, right? Understanding how to structure a record. But yeah, A and r could be many things. I mean, there's Scout. They go to the clubs and they can identify an artist before, you know, they become huge. and then there's the a and r that's like the guy who was in the trenches making the records. And I like to try to find myself some, I, I think I'm somewhere in between that. I don't know where exactly, but
Nik (Detached audio):Yeah. Yeah. So on the one hand actually finding the new talent, finding, finding a new artist that's like, Hey, this person's gonna blow up. Let's get them on the label. Let's, let's, you know, put out their music. And then there's the actual. Creation of the music. And I think that this is the part that some artists don't actually really understand.'cause especially as a bedroom producer coming up in the game, you're kind of like, it's me and my laptop and I'm in my studio and I do everything myself. Maybe I'm getting like splice vocals or some shit, you know? but there's a whole other game. That people are playing at a bigger level, which you're talking about, which is really putting a producer maybe in the studio with maybe another producer or a songwriter, or a singer, or a whole team of people,
Track 1:For sure.
Nik (Detached audio):Can you gimme, an example of you connecting some dots for a song that turned out to, do really well?
Track 1:Sure. I mean, there's a, there's a record, um, that we put out, by Mark Kismet called Parallel Heartbreak. That demo was originally Tate McCray on that song. Um, and we sent, we sent to an instrumental, I believe from Mark Chisman around that. It was really strong that we needed a vocal on. They were in the same key. So I thought, man, maybe let's send this to Omar and see if, if they can create something out of this. And that song just turned into a monster. We ended up getting a couple other writers in the room. They kind of changed the verse a little bit. but that was a, that was a process that was very new to Omar at the time. They were, I believe 16 when they made that record. So that was one that we had to really kind of get them on board with working with other creatives.'cause I think in dance music it's kind of like people kind of frowned upon that sometimes. They don't understand that that's like the real record business is putting a lot of, you know, a lot of people are involved in some of the biggest records. Um, but yeah,
Nik (Detached audio):people don't realize is like a lot of these big songs, you're like, yo, there were five people that helped make this song come to life. Maybe there's one artist's name at the end of it, but there could be a, a handful of people that made that happen. That's how, you know, a lot of the best stuff happens with collaboration,
Track 1:For sure. For sure. And yeah, and Omar ended up completely flipping the record into some, what, what it is now. And I mean, they're just so creatively, you know, they they're so good.
Nik (Detached audio):they had, they had a production, like a, just a, something like a, a beat, like a just a straight
Track 1:wasn't the same key. It wasn't the same key.
Nik (Detached audio):and then the other person had, uh, like a vocal demo for a actual top
Track 1:yeah. With Tate McCray, that was kind of, they were trying to, you know, they're pitching it for a bigger artist and I thought, man, they're in the same key. Maybe we can put the vocal from that record on this one. And then Omar took it and just made a completely different song from that. and then Tate couldn't cut the record'cause, you know, she had some restrictions with her label. So we ended up putting some other people in the re in the room on the record, and then it turned into what it is now, and it's like, wow. That. It's crazy how that transformed from what it was into what it is now,
Nik (Detached audio):cool, it's so cool to even think about of just like this idea and this idea are kind of like seeds of ideas and then they get grouped together and, and then a, a new idea is birthed from that and then maybe it changes directions even then. And a lot of people don't really see the actual evolution of how great songs come to be. So that's, that's so cool. Do you, uh, do you still produce yourself at all? Just side
Track 1:I do.
Nik (Detached audio):quest real quick. You
Track 1:Yeah. Yeah, I still do. I mean, I, I like to keep up with like, what's happening too in the production world too. So I, I still DJ locally. It's for fun. Um, I still have a lot of promoter homies, so I'll play some local warehouses here and there. but yeah, I still like to mess around with like new plugins and shit, so yeah, definitely. For sure.
Nik (Detached audio):that's great. Yeah, you gotta, you gotta keep your, uh, your finger on the pulse
Track 1:That, that's it. That's exactly it. I mean, that's actually why I still dj.'cause I, I wanna still feel that energy that you feel when you dj, you know, when you're out, when you're digging for new records. I'm also in the process finding new artists that I wanna work with, you know, so.
Nik (Detached audio):totally. totally. And man, it, it seems like Thrive is doing amazingly well. Like I just keep seeing so much stuff coming out. I keep seeing, you know, artists talking about wanting to get signed to thrive. So what's going on over there? Like, what is contributing to the success? I just feel like you guys are coming up is like really a really hot label right now.
Track 1:Yeah, I mean the team's grown pretty significantly, um, in the last four years, I would say. Like coming out of covid, I mean obviously do it to it happening in 2021 was pretty massive for the, for the label. just before that, I mean, we had L-P-G-O-B Nostalgics more Kismet, like I mentioned, biscuits and a lot of these artists we were working with just before the lockdown. And they all stood like really busy throughout Covid and we found ourselves like coming out of it, you know, lineups were getting announced left and right. And I was like, man, we, we have a lot of artists on these festivals. I was like, what's going on? We're onto something here. So it just started growing. I mean, I, I don't know exactly what it is, what's to what, you know what's to it, but it, it starts working. So.
Nik (Detached audio):And what, what does the rest of the team look like? Obviously you've got your a and r department, they're the ones that are really, you know, looking for the new talent, putting these songs together. Uh, but you said the team's grown also. So what are, what are some of the other, I guess, departments of the label and what does the bigger ecosystem look like?
Track 1:Um, so I mean it's myself. Um, I have two other ars. myself, Anthony Bacca, and then we also, we just hired Jason Bentley, who's our, uh, president of Sync Licensing and he's doing soundtracks as well, which is really exciting. we have Ron Walker, who's our head of streaming and commercial. so he's pitching all the music to the playlist, but you know, as well.
Nik (Detached audio):I did
Track 1:Yeah, you guys go way back.
Nik (Detached audio):OG OG
Track 1:Yeah. Yeah. So then we also, we just hired Andrew Conde, who's our, our new GM here, um, Madison Wyatt as well, who's our, our project manager, and also does marketing. Um, Michael Lio, who just joined the team as well, who's, who was previously at Republic before. He was the head of marketing there. and then we have Esme as well, who's our, our rockstar. She's our, our content queen as we call her. So she does like social media and works with all the teams directly. So,
Nik (Detached audio):Cool. you've got content people make, making content, you've got people doing sync licensing, just general management. you know, yeah, as they say, teamwork makes the dream work. You guys have built a really, a really solid team over there. Uh, I feel like My impression of Thrive also is that you guys are really investing in like proper artist development, maybe a little bit more than other labels dev, what is your approach to artist development? What does that look like over there? And I guess, what does that even mean? I think for, for some people that might not understand what that actually means too.
Track 1:you know, that, that's a, that's a great question.'cause for us, that's actually changed quite a bit since we brought on this new team. previously when we were, you know, looking for an artist, it was, it was very much a and r it. First we signed it, then we handed off and we not handed off, but we're working with the marketing team on what we need to do. It was a different type of setup where now. There's like three phases before we sign an artist. Phase one is A and r obviously we've gotta feel good about it and feel that culturally, you know, they're doing something great. and phase two is that we have the marketing and our, our streaming team kind of dive in and, and see if this is something that we can be an asset for and we can come in and provide services for. And then after that, then we'll go and, and, and, um, we'll meet the team, meet the artist, and, and see if it's some, like I said, something that we can really, you know. Provide services for,
Nik (Detached audio):and and what determines that?
Track 1:um, there's a lot of variables. I mean, I, I think number one, the music obviously has to be great like that. That's, it starts with that. number two, branding is really important. and then also like, I think for us, a really big part is like what's happening with the artist culturally, right? Like, are, are, are they doing anything that's connecting with the fans? How are their socials. You know, and then also like are there DJs playing the records? Like how is this connecting, you know, in the clubs, you know?'cause at the end of the day, that's like your best backbone. You don't want to just go inside an artist and say, all right, we're gonna go and shoot for the stars and just get a bunch of playlist thing. At the end of the day, you're only gonna get playlist thing if the editors also feel that it's something that's connecting culturally. So it all kind of goes hand in hand
Nik (Detached audio):So actual like DJ support, you wanna see that people are playing these tracks out in clubs. You wanna see that they're, they've got a fan base, they're engaging with their fan base on social media, and that they have a brand. what do you look for when it comes to branding? How do you know if somebody has a good brand or not?
Track 1:it's crazy'cause it, it could be many things, right? Like, it could be like their, their, them, their image, you know, but also like, what do they stand for? You know, like what is it that this artist is bringing to the table that I. You know, is, is drawing fans to it. You know, is this something that we really want to come get behind as a, you know, as a label? But it could be many different things. I mean, there's some artists that don't really have, I mean, there's an artist that we worked with called Mo Pitt that was like, it was a very kind of like anonymous type of thing to just to start because we really wanted everything to be about the music from the jump. And there was kind of like a little bit of pushback that we got from people. For being another another anonymous artist.'cause there's so many. But it did work in this case because the artist was someone that, like, previously people knew who they were, who he was. and I don't know, it just ended up working out. And the branding was all about like music first person second, you know, which is, I think these days really difficult to kind of do that. You know, everybody wants to get to know the person. And now that we did kind of draw the attention. They took the mask off and they're like, okay, this is me. You know? And now they're connecting with fans. I mean, that, that's at the end of the day is how, how you connect with the fans and how your music connects with them is how you're gonna, you know, have that high retention.
Nik (Detached audio):Totally. For artists that are interested in getting signed to, to really, to any label, what are some of the best practices that they, that they should take? You know, how does one actually go about getting signed? You know, I think that's a lot of people's goal. I wanna get out, I wanna get my music out on Thrive, or one of my, you know, favorite labels. How do they actually make that happen?
Track 1:Yeah, that's a good question, man.'cause like, I, I, I've been asked that a bunch. I, I recently had somebody reach out to me and I hope that I didn't like discourage them, but like, they're like, yo, like I, I wanna be a producer. I wanna be a dj. Like what sound that's in right now do you think that I should be making? And I was like. You shouldn't be making me. How do you tell him that? Um, but I was just like, you're already having the wrong approach at the end of the day. Like, you should be putting out into the world what you feel artistically you, you, you know what you want. It's what you like, you know, and then you can make that accessible in whatever way you think works. But it needs to be you. Right? And I think if an artist wants to get signed to a label, this might come out wrong, but I think. You shouldn't be like chasing that. I think you should be putting out your art and they will come to you. You know, you put in your 10,000 hours People think like, it's funny'cause they talk about do it to it and they're like, damn. Like he went, he's an overnight sensa sensation. I'm like, no. A crazy was working for like a long time before that happened. Like people don't know
Nik (Detached audio):He pre, he produced 200 songs before he made that one that actually, you know, changed his career. Right. People don't see that shit.
Track 1:But like, he also like, wasn't out like chasing a bunch of labels. I mean, he was having fun. He was producing with a bunch of peers, making some fucking bangers, you know? Um, and then we came to him, you know, and I, I, there's a lot of artists that reach out and they send music and stuff, but the best ones that we've had the most success with are artists that, like, like I said, they've put in those 10,000 hours, they have the team that already kind of, they understand what they're gonna do. As a business as well, you know, because you have amazing music, but it's gotta all be together. So
Nik (Detached audio):it's kind of like dating. It's kind of like. You know, if you're like, how do I get girls? What, how do I need to change myself to make girls like me? Like, oh, I need to like go to the gym, or I need to dress a certain way, or I need to like, learn these certain things to say and how to be
Track 1:for sure,
Nik (Detached audio):then you're always gonna be chasing that as opposed to just be like, I. You just go be the best version of yourself and you will attract the right people into your life, you know? And so it's so cool, man, like coming from somebody that runs a label. It's so cool to hear you saying that because it's so, so much about just what I believe of what it really takes to be a true artist. I do believe there's a difference between being an artist and being a producer. There's a math and a science to how. Music works, especially electronic music. You know, it's, you could plug it into a fucking AI formula and have it, you know, study algorithms and look at what's working and certain beats and whatever. But like to be an artist, being an artist is like about you doing you,
Track 1:A hundred percent.
Nik (Detached audio):do you as good as you can do it. So fucking own that. And it's like, make the music first and then. See where it goes. I think a lot of people are fucking up because they're like, oh, I wanna get signed to that label, so I'm
Track 1:I'm gonna go And make something. Exactly. A hundred percent. Yeah.
Nik (Detached audio):okay, cool. That's why 90% of people aren't getting fucking anywhere in this industry is because everyone's just like copying each other and, and making what they think they should be making, rather than like, what do you actually really fuck with? Like, what's your true self-expression as an artist?
Track 1:Yeah. Yeah. I mean, something we've done recently is like we, and we will, we'll bring it back. I'm sure. And I think every label has to have that open. But like we turned off like the demo at Thrive,
Nik (Detached audio):Oh shit.
Track 1:did.'cause I'm like, you know what? I think we need to like go and find things that like, that we think works right. And that we're gonna only be the best ARS if we're out looking for it. You know? And that I think for any artist, like. They should be thinking of that. Like, how am I gonna attract them in a way that is authentic to me? Not what's authentic to them, like to their, to what they're putting out, I guess, you know?
Nik (Detached audio):it puts a lot of ownership back on the artist.'cause I think it's the same way for managers. I hear managers say this all the time, it's like. Don't chase managers or pitch yourself. It's like they'll find you when you're actually doing something that is cool and attractive, you know? So it's like take the focus off of trying to get somebody else to help you succeed. Everyone thinks like, oh, if I get signed to this label, then they're gonna blow me up. And it's like, no dude, you gotta blow yourself up first. And you blow yourself up by like. Knowing who the fuck you are. Making the shit that like is really authentic to you. Building a fan base, you know, really genuinely and creatively. And then it's like if you're doing something cool, like you said, you're gonna, you're gonna find them.
Track 1:But this is the thing too. I mean, I'm, I don't need to like say any names, but like we, we've released music from, from artists. You know, in the last couple years where they have records that fit a mold on what's working on specific playlists or charts or specific, you know, rooms. and then we'll put them out. They'll get some DJ support and ultimately you want records to grow, right? You'll have a song that like, you know, ends up in new Music Friday dance, or it ends up in housework and, but you want them to continue growing. You don't want to like, you don't want that to be your last point where you're getting that win, right? You want to keep growing. I. Um, but one thing we found that when you're doing that, you need to come back with hard data. Like, Hey, this is what's happening on the back end, right? You've got the data that's like, oh, the, the source of streams, right? If it's all coming from editorial, why would an editor continue to play this? That if nothing is happening outside of that, if editorial is your number one source of streams, that means there's no one else listening to it. that's only gonna happen if you have a solid fan base. If you have a solid like group of people that are like listening to your music, searching for your music, you know? And that, that's I think, your biggest backbone. You know? It shouldn't, it shouldn't be like, you know, I'm just gonna make music that sounds like everyone else, because I'm gonna get DJs to play my record. You probably will get some to play it, but that's like very, very short-lived songs are like forgotten, like that, you
Nik (Detached audio):Yeah. can you give me an example of, of a song that's done really well and maybe. Talk about like what were some of the ingredients, like what had it actually really get that momentum to get to that next level?
Track 1:I guess I can just do it too, right? Because that was pretty, like massive. when that first came out, believe it or not, like hardly had any playlist support. Which is insane. We had to really go in there and get in the trenches and get people to get behind this record. This was getting played before it came out. DJ Snake was playing it, Tiesto, you name it. Everyone was playing it, but streaming and dance radio for that matter, they nobody understood what it was. They saw that as like, oh, it's another remix. And we're like, it's not a remix. Like it's a sample. Like it's not the same. there were a lot of moments that happened, you know, once it started going viral on TikTok, we poured more gas on that. We got a bunch of influencers to fucking make their own TikTok, you know, stuff to it. And then we took it to the DSPs and said, look, you have to playlist it here. Like it's undeniable. There's no reason why you should not get behind this record.
Nik (Detached audio):how did DJ Snake and Tiesto end up playing it out? Like how did they get their hands on it? Did the artist send it over? Did the label send
Track 1:yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Nik (Detached audio):Tiesto to play your fucking song is what people want to know.
Track 1:So that one, I mean, he, they did reach out to, to Charlie, to Acra, some of the earlier ones. did a really good job at hand selecting who had that song early on. As we got closer, you know, we had our own promotion that, you know, we got it to certain taste makers. And then once they, once it was all online, I mean, everybody was buying it, but we did do some hand selecting on who should get that record before. But Charlie actually, I mean, he did a great job at, at initially getting it in the right hands. And I, I believe Snake asked him for the song. He is like, yo, what is this? He played it, uh, acre opened for Chami It was 2020 into 2021. He was opening for Chami in Orlando, and that video like went viral. So every DJ after that was like asking him for it. We didn't put the record out until August. So you could imagine in that time everybody was like what the hell is this song?
Nik (Detached audio):it's like you're creating buzz within the DJ scene and culture first, right? Like the DJs. The DJs are rinsing it out in the clubs and in the festivals and stuff, even before it's out, right? So that's a moment, and then the song comes out, and then there's a TikTok moment also. So how did this start to go viral on TikTok?
Track 1:organically it was growing. It wasn't to the extent that it ended up being, when it started to kind of pick up, we did hire some companies that helped us, you know, and we also had our internal influencer list as well, of people that were getting to create videos and then. There was a moment that happened at EDC when it was in October. Um, Zed made like a Squid Games intro to his DJ set with Do It to it. After that happened, it just like exploded.
Nik (Detached audio):Yeah.
Track 1:like, we're like, damn.
Nik (Detached audio):That's the tip, the tipping
Track 1:For sure.
Nik (Detached audio):influencer marketing, and, and I think I've talked about this maybe once before. This is a form of marketing, I don't think a lot of people really know, but it's getting influencers. Someone that has a big following, someone that has a hundred thousand followers or a million followers on TikTok. And then, you know, basically rather than putting, you know, a couple hundred dollars into a Facebook ad, you give that person a couple hundred dollars to, to put their song in one of their videos. It's basic idea if I,
Track 1:yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But I honestly, like I wouldn't, I wouldn't advise on people just like paying influencers to like post it. I think. Uh, there was a study that we talked about, that, that Michael did with his previous team. they were looking at the videos that were created, that helped the record go viral. The, the best videos and the ones that really sparked it going viral were people that were non-paid. It was organic or they were the smaller influencers. typically when you're paying influencers to pay or to make something, they're doing it for a bag. It's not authentic. It's very like. They're getting paid to make content to it. It's not organic. Yeah, yeah. We, we did that when we felt there was like a, a, you know, there was a reaction to the record and we're like, okay, look, there's a fire. We gotta pour fuel on it, you know? Um, but I would be very careful with like, spending on, on influencer marketing.
Nik (Detached audio):then at that point it was just, it was off to the races then. Was
Track 1:Yeah. I mean, there was
Nik (Detached audio):helped any other moments or, you know, big things that helped further propel the, the, the
Track 1:Yeah, I mean we had like a bunch of unreleased remix for remixes for a long time that were just kind of sitting around. Uh, there was a yucky remix that was like one of the last that came out. There was a TTA remix that we got specifically for the main stages. and then we got a a Drummond bass version from a sub focus that did really well. Subs did a remix as well for us. we were really strategic with picking like who was gonna be, you know, remixing that record. Um, and then eventually Charlie gave the stems out and we had a, a pack of like 16 remixes that came out. But that was mostly us just like having fun with it. We Just, said fuck it.
Nik (Detached audio):yeah, You already, won at that point. Let's
Track 1:yeah, for sure.
Nik (Detached audio):Uh, but that's a great point though as well is like the remixes, and I think a lot of artists probably aren't thinking about this as well, just as far as, you know, having a real proper strategy to how do you put a track out, right? Like, yeah, getting that DJ support, maybe getting a viral moment if you can. That's rad. I think a lot of people are kind of just maybe focusing only on like the, the TikTok and the social media stuff, and then sometimes forgetting like, Hey. That early DJ support is important, but also the kind of post-release DJ remixes to keep the song moving forward and also to enter different markets. It's like getting sub focused to do it. Cool. Now you're like, you've got a, the drum and bass community is getting introduced to your song, right? You're, you know, the house music community, the bass music community, like every other genre, and market of music can then be getting, you know. Uh, introduced to your
Track 1:Yeah. and that, that one was for
Nik (Detached audio):aren't thinking about
Track 1:yeah. And that sub focus remix was for like specialty radio that we needed for B. B, C. we were trying to get more spins in that territory and we're like, some focus is from the UK German base. Like some folks, you know, that's a pretty legendary act to remix the record. but yeah, man.
Nik (Detached audio):what are you excited about now? What's, what's thrive cooking up right now? You guys got some stuff coming up? I don't know. whatever whatever you can talk about. Like what are you juiced about right
Track 1:sure. Yeah. I mean, I think w W's an interesting one. We had a. We had a few big records from him last year, um, that were all, I mean they were all kind of flips of, of classics. there was the, to be Real Record with Lee Foss and there was, uh, edge of 17, which came out actually a couple years ago, but it kind of carried over into the new year, that record did really well. Um, so this year is kind of like. I mean, he's just such a amazing producer and he has like this theme of like, like Beats I can't release on his TikTok. That does really well. So originally we were supposed to put out an album called The Beats I Can Release'cause we cleared a bunch of these to come out. unfortunately,
Nik (Detached audio):something that attracted you guys to him in the first place? Was he was just like, he was really relentless on TikTok
Track 1:think that was the original pitch. Yeah.
Nik (Detached audio):caught your eye in the first place?
Track 1:Yeah. But I mean, I, I wouldn't say that that's why we did it. I mean, that was the original pitch that they were giving us, like, for this album. So we were like, man, this could be cool and we can clear records. We're not to put that out there and say, send us records that need to be cleared'cause we're trying to go away from that. but yeah, that was exciting for us'cause I was like, this guy's an amazing producer and like we can clear'em. So, uh, we put these out and like, unfortunately, and, and something that I'm not like too stoked with, like. On the DSP side.'cause like they, there's a lot of resistance with some of these remakes and I'm like, sampling and remakes, like this is part of the dance culture. This has been a thing forever. but I mean there was quite a wave of remakes that came out after doing it too. It, so I couldn't stand to an extent. But it did kind of hurt us w with the wiki stuff.'cause they, it can grow to an extent. And then after that they're kind of like, that's another remake, you know, like dance radio. Like a lot of them were like, no, it's another one. So. we have a, a string of like, original records from him that I'm like really pumped about. yeah. Some really exciting stuff. And then a craze is also working on an album right now, which is gonna be sick, so.
Nik (Detached audio):I want to backtrack. How do you clear a record? I'm just curious. Like what, like what's the, what's the, I guess, the governing body that you need to talk to? Is it, I guess, the publisher, you gotta hit up and
Track 1:Yeah. It's, it's all of them. So if there's a, if it's a cover. That's a new recording, right? Like if somebody's covering Drake, whatever song it is, like they're gonna, they're basically remaking a, a song, right? And they're re-recording new parts. Yeah. Yeah. So at that point, you're not clearing a sample. You need to kill the publishing with all the writers. They need to allow it. And some cases, if it's an exact cover, you can get a compulsory license where it's, they're getting paid everything directly. You're not claiming any of the publishing.
Nik (Detached audio):and that way you don't have to get all the clearance. You just get
Track 1:Well, you get that license and it, once you register it, they get paid directly for all the mechanicals and stuff like that. So they
Nik (Detached audio):Do they still have to approve it?
Track 1:Um, that, that's, that, that would be like a BA question, but yes, uh, they still need to approve it in some territories. There's certain countries that they can pull it down still.
Nik (Detached audio):Yeah. People don't realize how complicated this
Track 1:yeah. Yeah. It depends, like if there's like downloads too, like there's a whole, it's a whole thing, but. But in regards to like clearing a record, I mean, if, if you've got a sample, you've gotta clear that with whoever controls the master side. Um, yeah. And then you gotta clear the pub too. So it, what we see happening a lot now is people just kind of remaking the parts, getting a replay is what it's called. Done. and then they just clear the pub. typically there's a lot of publishers that'll send like ARS folders, like, Hey, you songs to flip, you guys should go and flip these songs. But we're personally trying to like do less of that. So.
Nik (Detached audio):I love that personally. I love it when somebody takes a song and just does it in a totally different style. You know, like that was a big theme for like trailer, like movie trailers for a long time. It would be like a really spooky version of like a Beyonce song, you know, like a familiar tune. You know, it's the same lyrics, but it's like really creepy or you know, it's one thing to remix like a house song and then do like another house remix of that song. It's pretty close already, pretty similar. But when someone just completely does a whole reinvention that's like either really slowed down or sped up, like I love that. I love that
Track 1:for sure. Yeah, I mean that's, Yoki did that with, with Do It to record. They did like a version that was like a hundred BPM and I'm like, what is this? But it fucking worked.
Nik (Detached audio):even the same. Yeah. Yeah. It's so dope. Uh, well that's like that, uh, that Roses song that was, that there was that ro roses, uh, like remix. Right? The
Track 1:The Iman back
Nik (Detached audio):soup. Imam Beck. Yeah, exactly. Like I heard the original of it and I'm like, oh shit. It's like a way slower hip hop rap song. But the vocal I, I was used to hearing was really high pitch
Track 1:Yeah. Yeah.
Nik (Detached audio):different. Yeah. Love that man. So saw that you guys were doing some stuff with Capital Records. Are you guys uh, merged with them or what's the relationship with capital?
Track 1:we're like really close with them. I mean, before the Acra we, so we have a JV that, that's, to answer your question, we have a JV for the ACRA Pro project specifically.
Nik (Detached audio):Which is a
Track 1:a joint. venture. Yeah. So that's us, our team, and their team collectively. Working on this project. before that, our distributor is Virgin Music Group. They all used to be under the same umbrella, when Virgin was Caroline, they separated, I believe like a year and a half, two years ago. they're two different companies now, but. we're, we were still really close with a lot of the team that was at Capital and yeah. And then Acre wanted to do a deal with both teams, so we were like, okay, we're gonna have to figure that out.
Nik (Detached audio):Yeah. All right. Love
Track 1:Yeah.
Nik (Detached audio):It's collaboration. Cool, cool, cool. Let's talk about marketing. Let's talk about your guys' process. When you've signed a song, maybe you've done some stuff on the backend as the a and r. You know, maybe you got the right songwriters in the room, the right singers in the room. You've actually created the track. The track is ready to come out. You know, what are all the things that you do to, release the song and make sure that the song, that the song does well?
Track 1:Yeah, I mean, this is gonna sound crazy. Um, and this is also part of like the new process with this new team. but what I see them asking for now is we want the song to be posted about collectively. It could be story posts, it could be, you know, a hard post on the Instagram. But we want to see like 20 to 30 posts pre-release of the song. Um, you, you need to talk about it. it's unfortunate'cause like there's a lot of artists that, like, I've seen them post recently, like, I don't like promoting my music. It's cheesy. And I'm just like, at the end of the day, like, your art, your fans are not gonna be excited about your music if you're not, you know, um, you can find ways to post it that. It, it is tasteful. It's not cheesy. It's not, Hey, listen to my song. Like there's ways to do it organically where it's organic to you and, and it works.
Nik (Detached audio):I love, that you say that, you know, because this is the Headliner Mindset podcast, and I'm all about the importance of having the right mindset, of having an effective mindset, a mindset that is going to help you be successful. So much of the shit that people deal with, like it's not actual practical stuff, it's actually mindset stuff. It's that attitude and that belief that like, oh, I don't want to do this because it's cheesy. Rather than being in the mindset of how can this be fun, how can this be exciting? I'm actually excited about this song and I genuinely want as many people to hear it as possible, so I'm gonna post 20 or 30 times. Right? And so there's a big mindset shift there that needs to happen. So I'm really glad that you that you bring that
Track 1:Yeah. Yeah. And that, that's just, it's also like, it's sad'cause like a lot of these artists that are like saying that it's cheesy to promote my music are, you know, I, I, I'm an artist. I only work in the studio and I make the music. I'm not a fucking TikTok star. I'm not this, it's really not that. It's you talking about how pumped you are about art that you made, that you're putting out there. There's gonna come a time at some point where said artists that's saying that it's cheesy is gonna be 40, 50 years old. And it's gonna regret not like talking about that piece of art that they're so attached to that they love, you know, And, they're, and they're gonna wonder why it never broke. Why? It's also'cause you didn't talk about it. You didn't tell anyone.
Nik (Detached audio):on. Honestly, if we really peel the layers back, what that boils down to is having a fear of being judged. It's like giving a fuck about what people think about you. Basically, I don't wanna come off as being cheesy Is saying the same thing as. I'm scared of what people are gonna think of me. And, and that's some shit you gotta get over. Like, to really be in your power as an artist, as a person, as anybody, you gotta walk through life being like, yo, I know who the fuck I am. I know what I'm all about. I know what I want. And I don't give a shit about what anybody thinks about me. not in a cocky way, not in a, in an asshole way, but like, if I have a goal, I'm gonna go after it and I'm going to, you know, I'm gonna, I'm gonna own that. And the. Biggest things that can get in our way is like caring about what other people think about us. You know, like that can, that can
Track 1:you're hitting the nail on the on the head dude. You're hitting the nail on the head and, and without saying names like there's an artist that I'm really close to you here and like. He was feeling that way and exactly what you said, and it is the worry about what are people gonna think about me when I do that? It also comes from like, it, it's, they're self-conscious about way too many things that people don't really care about. People forget, like really quick.
Nik (Detached audio):head, dude, nobody gives a fuck. Like, think about it, bro. Everybody's scrolling through their phone, look, spending like two seconds on a post. They're gonna see 500 posts that day. You think they're going to take us, take a moment to stop and be like, damn, this guy's fucking cheesy. You know? It's
Track 1:Yeah. and, like dude, there, there are a lot of things that even when you think that in the moment, their next post might be them playing to a massive crowd and you're like, damn, that was fucking sick. We already forgot that thing you talked about. They did. That was cheesy.
Nik (Detached audio):yeah.
Track 1:know what I'm saying? I mean, there's, I mean, even like John Summit for example, like dude, he, he's the ultimate example of like, I don't give a fuck. I'm just gonna do whatever. I'm gonna promote my music. Do it whichever way I fucking want to. And it works, you know? And there's sometimes where he does shit that's cringed too, like dude, but like, people forget, like the, you know, they vibe with him. He is a fucking normal human.
Nik (Detached audio):failure is a part of success, right? We've gotta be in the. Energy and mindset of I'm gonna do a hundred fucking things and maybe 30 of them aren't gonna work, maybe 50 of them aren't gonna work. Maybe 70 of them aren't gonna work, but 30 of them will, and that's gonna be the shit that moves the needle. But a lot of people, if I'm scared about what people think about me, then I might do five things and get a little bit of negative feedback and then be like, oh, I don't wanna do this. This is cheesy, this is stupid. You know, and, and so we gotta, you know, you just gotta get out there. You gotta put yourself out there and ultimately like, let go of being perfect. It's like we we, we wanna be perfect. we, wanna do everything right. We always want to be received positively all the time. So we're gonna be very careful about what we say. Very careful about what we put out. It's like, dude, fuck that. Like
Track 1:Yeah, well that's the other part too.'cause they're like talking about this content, like, oh, well that's not gonna reach a lot of people. Well, let me tell you, like you posting less of whatever content is a lot less reach than you're gonna get posting it this amount of times, you know?
Nik (Detached audio):Totally. It's the game man. You know, I think, you know, if we want to talk about social media specifically, you know, Gary v. Gary Vanerchuk is the fucking goat of social media. Go, you know, follow his stuff. And I remember him posting a video and I'm sure he talks about it all the time, but he's like, you know, you gotta just. Go post 20 things and maybe two of them will work and pop off. Right. But most people are so focused on like, I need to make the one or two things. I'm gonna, I'm gonna put all that time and energy into making one or two things hoping that they, that they pop off. But then you're only posting two things and then most likely neither of them are gonna work. You gotta go post the quantity, you know? And just know that like, it's not all gonna land and that's part of the game.
Track 1:for sure.
Nik (Detached audio):same thing with records, right? You guys are gonna put out like 20 records. Not all of them are gonna be a fucking massive hit. Like, you know that that's, that's, that's part of the game. But like the, the one or two that do that, that's going to keep the lights turned on.
Track 1:For sure, for sure. Um, but I guess, yeah, getting into the marketing question, I, I, it is. On pre-release, you need to talk about the record, you know, post-release, like you still gotta post about your song. Like you, social media is such a strong tool, you know, you don't need to go and make funny TikTok videos. Like there's a way to put you and also don't just post a teaser asset. The animation, like dude, do some like authentic, like stuff that, you know, whatever's true to you.
Nik (Detached audio):Okay, so, so obviously, so, so posting, you said what you said 20 times, 20 to 30
Track 1:Yeah, I mean, that, that's what we're advising. I mean, I'm not gonna give away all the beans, but it's somewhere like, you know, in that range, like you should, you should just talk about your record before it comes out, you know? And then after like, dude, keep fucking posting about it. People are gonna like, forget about it quick. Like you want to keep them engaged.
Nik (Detached audio):what do you think about I. DJ promo in the sense of just like shooting your shot and sliding into people's dms and like sending your music to them. You know, like I personally, I sort of preach the philosophy to just shoot your shot. You have nothing to lose. Hit people up. DMTS though. See if he'll play your song. DMD snake like that. It's like worst case they don't get back to you. But best case is it changes your fucking life.
Track 1:You'd be surprised how many artists, even with that feel like, I think it's cheesy to send my music and it's like, bro. Like what?
Nik (Detached audio):Yeah.
Track 1:but they should absolutely send it to other DJs, like get, you know, get it into as many people's hands as possible. the other, I mean, there's also, there's companies you can work with that'll, that'll service it. I don't know if that's like the best, like spend of money, but that does help, you know, 1,001 track. they have a service as well that they. You know, they get it in a bunch of DJ's hands, you know, and that ultimately that moving up those charts is what's gonna get people like buying your record on Beatport two, because, so-and-so's playing it, you know?
Nik (Detached audio):for sure. I didn't know that 1,001 Trackless had a service. That's super cool. That's a very like reputable brand in the industry. I know your Army has been doing that for a long time. They're like a pretty solid one. do you know any other services or
Track 1:Yeah. I mean, relish is good too. Relish is relish. PR is good. Infectious is really good. There's a bunch of'em. I mean, the other thing is like, as a dj, you should be on those pools, man. If you're a resident DJ, where you're from, you should be getting these records. You know, you're a tastemaker,
Nik (Detached audio):you're a DJ also, which I think is so rad that you're out there fucking doing, doing the damn thing. still having your finger on the pulse of the scene. And, um, I. It's funny, man.'cause I'm out, I'm out in Austin now, and it's like, I'm, you know, there's a cool scene out here, but it's not, it's not la it's not
Track 1:Yo, you guys got seismic out there?
Nik (Detached audio):We got, we got seismic at the Concourse project, the sickest fuck con. We got a lot of house and techno going down. Really not a lot of bass. There's not really a bass music scene here per se, but, um, we're holding it down with the house in techno scene. how would you describe. The scene and the culture right now actually being out there as a dj, like, what are you what are you feeling? What are you experiencing?
Track 1:Dude. It's such a great time right now in dance music, and I say that like passionately, man. I, the, it's so like wide in terms of like what's working in the clubs. Like in LA there's like a really big thing for like hard techno and the really fast stuff, which is like. Per se, not my favorite thing, but like I'll play it if it's working, you know, if it's something that I like, you know. But, um, there's so many different, like, I, I played a warehouse show recently and I was playing, the first half of the set was kind of like that drum code main stage. I. Style, techno vibe. And I slowly, slowly started transitioning into this hyper techno, hyper trans world, and it just fucking went crazy. And I was like, I don't know if this is gonna work. I eventually ended up playing like the original sandstorm and it fucking went off,
Nik (Detached audio):Oh yeah, dude.
Track 1:but it went off and it's like, damn. It's just, it's great. Like I think people are more than ever like open to hearing like whatever. Works. You know, it's just, it matters how you do it as a dj. but there's so many different things that are like popping off. Like there's this, like, like I said, this hyper trance thing that like is popping off in the UK and it's starting to come over here. It's like this really uptempo, it's not even trance, like what we would consider trance today. It's like, it sounds like very like early two thousands trance, you know, like a TB type stuff. but yeah, we've got like those guys like DJ Heartstring that are finally coming out here. Marlene Hofs stat's, like killing it Maji. yeah, I don't know. Culturally, like I said, it's a really cool time because there's a lot of nude acts that are bubbling up that are not necessarily from here, but like, you know, they're popping off in the, in Europe and boiler rooms. Really kind of like leading the charge in terms of like putting a lot of these people on.
Nik (Detached audio):Yeah. Yeah. Like real true. DJ culture, you know, and, and this opens up a perspective for me because I think. A lot of artists that I know and that I talk to and that I coach, I mean, everybody's kind of dream and vision is like, yo, I wanna, I wanna be touring the world. You know, I wanna do this shit full time. I want to be able to get out there and play my songs to my own fan base and, and all of that. And I think there's something really important here about. Really being a DJ and knowing how to DJ and knowing the possibility of what's out there, right? And like really being plugged into the culture and plugged into the scene, right? Like knowing how to read a crowd and work a room. It's so different than just like, Hey, I'm gonna go. Play, you know, my set of the songs that I like and my songs that I wanted to want to introduce to, to, to the crowd. You know, it's very different than like, really, like I think having your roots planted in like the scene and the culture, if that
Track 1:for sure, for sure. And culture like for everyone. That should be like the number one thing. Like if you can't go and just like spend a whole weekend and just go to different types of vibes at a show, as a producer, you're probably like in a struggle. Like you need to go and really experiment, like every single sound in the genre, you know. Um, And especially now because there's so, like I said, so many different sounds that are like coming in, like you need to like be open to it, you know?
Nik (Detached audio):a lot of producers are. Just locked in their rooms. And to a certain extent, you kind of need to be right. You need to, you need to be putting in those hours to really. Be making the music, but also like the more you're plugged into the scene or any scene or just getting to experience the, you know, even just seeing other people DJing, like that's gonna help you bring inspiration and ideas back into the studio. So there's, there's like an interesting balance there to find, I think. But for anyone that is like fully locked themselves in their room and is only producing or maybe lives in a city where there aren't a lot of shows, like, yeah, do yourself a favor and go
Track 1:Yeah,
Nik (Detached audio):and, you know, go to. go to New York or Miami or LA or fucking tomorrow, land like go plug in, whatever it
Track 1:that's the easiest way to break writer's block is to get out and, and go to a show. It doesn't need to be dance music. Go to a fucking rock show, go into the crowd. You know, like, I mean, even for me, like at this point, I mean, I've been doing this for like 15 years, like, dude, a, d, c, you're gonna probably find me like in the crowd, like I'm still going. Like I'm out there. I'll pop backstage and say hi to some people, but I'm like, I want to be in the crowd.
Nik (Detached audio):Yeah. So, Yeah, it's, uh, it's funny, I, I've talked about this before, but like, what was it probably last summer, uh, one of my favorite bands came to town and you know, at first I was just kinda like, you know, like, I'm gonna go like, watch the show. It was like a, a metal band. And I'm like, okay. I was probably like two thirds of the way back, just like watching the show. And then I was like, I wanna get a little bit. Closer, the energy is a little more like heavy, a little bit closer. So I get a little bit closer, dude. Fucking by the, by the third song, bro. I had my shirt off. I was in the fucking pit. I was pushing people around, like fully unhinged dude, fully unhinged. And, but what I realized was like, I need that shit.'cause that is some shit that makes me feel alive. It makes me remember. Why I love music in the first place. It's just like letting loose and really being at the epicenter of it, like being in the middle of the crowd, getting fucking sweaty. And so, yeah. Since then, I mean, I've had multiple shows. I, you know, every couple months I'm like, I'm just gonna, I gotta go get in a
Track 1:Yeah. Hell yeah. No, that, that's it, dude. I mean, I'm, I'm, there's this show they just announced, uh, no Values Fest in Pomona. It's like misfits, the attics exploited. I'm just like, dude. I'm going to that. I haven't been to a punk show like that in like ages, like, but that type of stuff, like, and then coming back into the studio, not that it connects to dance music, but it just gives you this appreciation for live music. And you know what it is? I don't know. Like I said, I think you should just like get out there as much as possible and it'll help you in the
Nik (Detached audio):Yeah. Yeah, man. I don't know if you experienced this at all, but definitely when I, you know, I started off as a fan. I was going to raves every weekend. I was going to clubs. I was like, man, I love this music so much. I want this to be my life. I wanna make a career out of this. And I did. And then I, you know, got into managing, I was managing artists, and then I was backstage all the time. Then my whole thing became about networking, meeting people, you know, getting in with all the cool kids and you know. Playing that whole game. And eventually I really started to resent it. I was like, I fucking don't want to go out till two in the morning. And I'm just like, talk to all these same people, blah, blah, blah. And it took me like, I had a moment, I had a stage where I was like. Kind of resenting the whole scene in general. And then I realized, I'm like, oh, like I need to get back into what got me into this shit in the first place, which is being on the dance floor, like turning my phone off and just shaking my damn ass and getting a little sweaty and getting a little weird, you know? I was like, I gotta, I still gotta do that every now and then, just to like keep my soul alive, you
Track 1:Yeah, I, I, I do that often. I go and shake my ass all the time.
Nik (Detached audio):Fuck
Track 1:No, but, but like for real though. Like, I was, I went to ARC Festival last year and the, on the last night I forgot my, uh, my phone in the room and we were down in the lobby and I was like, you know what? Fuck my phone. I got everybody I need with you right here. Let's just go to the fucking festival. And we were good. Dude. That was the best time.
Nik (Detached audio):Yeah, just living in the moment, enjoying it, having fun, like not worrying about, yeah. Anything else dude? Like that's, we need that, man. We need that. Like, again, back to just like the culture. I think like culturally, like why do we love this shit? Why do 110,000 people. to EDC every year. You know, it's because there's something about just letting loose and letting loose, and also just being connected to that many people that close to you. There's something on like a spiritual level that we all, we all need, you know? And so I think it's important for artists to remember that as well. Like, remember the role that you're playing, that you're contributing to this bigger, like cultural movement ultimately, and that, and that should fucking excite you. That should really, really light you up. I hope it does.
Track 1:for sure. Same.
Nik (Detached audio):Dope man. I just gotta say it is super cool to reconnect with you. It's been a long time. And, um, it, this, I dunno, this, this makes me excited to get back to la. Like, I want to go out there, I wanna go hit up. I wanna go see you dj.
Track 1:Oh my
Nik (Detached audio):shake my ass, hit some underground shows. I need to get my ass out there.
Track 1:Yeah, Yeah. You need to come out. We're gonna stay out till fucking 10:00 AM the next day. End up at someone's fucking random house and we're just gonna vibe.
Nik (Detached audio):Let's do it brother. I'm down man. Count me in. I'll see you. I'll see you this summer. I'm coming out. Let's do it. But thanks for taking the time to hop on, man, sharing your, your words of wisdom. I know this has been super helpful for everybody out there that is, uh, you know, striving towards this goal and this dream of, being a full-time artist getting their music out there. So really appreciate you taking the time,
Track 1:Hi. Yeah, man. No, thank you for having me.