After having some early music industry success in an artist duo, Goshfather got stuck in his career and creative process. He was caught up in the party scene, avoiding the studio and almost decided to quit. But he decided to do something crazy instead:
Make and release 52 songs in 52 weeks.
He knew that committing to the creative process was the answer to all his problems and blocks. And in this episode we dive deep into the powerful, transformational and incredibly important lessons he learned along the way.
Follow Goshfather here:
https://www.instagram.com/goshfather
https://www.threads.net/@goshfather
And visit my site to join the mailing list, book a free coaching call or get in touch:
https://www.nikcherwink.com
After having some early music industry success in an artist duo, Goshfather got stuck in his career and creative process. He was caught up in the party scene, avoiding the studio and almost decided to quit. But he decided to do something crazy instead:
Make and release 52 songs in 52 weeks.
He knew that committing to the creative process was the answer to all his problems and blocks. And in this episode we dive deep into the powerful, transformational and incredibly important lessons he learned along the way.
Follow Goshfather here:
https://www.instagram.com/goshfather
https://www.threads.net/@goshfather
And visit my site to join the mailing list, book a free coaching call or get in touch:
https://www.nikcherwink.com
I'm here to tell you that if you say that you're an artist, be making art. Because otherwise you're gonna go insane. Here's the thing, bad artists are good artists. Because the bad artist, will bad shit for a long time and get bored of sucking ass. that's just how it is. Make, fucking garbage, dude? make garbage, all day because that's how you become your heroes. That's how you surpass your heroes.
Nik:What's up everybody. Welcome to the headliner mindset podcast. Today's guest is a true music production machine. He is fresh off of a challenge where he put out a song a week for an entire year, all 52 weeks of 2023. He's also been putting out a constant stream of content that is both super inspiring and incredibly hilarious. This is gosh, father.
Track 1:What an intro good lord. Thank you so much, man. I appreciate You nick for having me on here Uh, dude, i've been i've been following. I mean, dude, I I see all the clips from your stuff all the time incredibly insightful incredibly, uh Getting artists out of their shell and a lot of them a lot of us Are in our shells at all times, especially when it comes to public facing anything. So You're doing something really special with this man. So thank it really means a lot to be on here with you
Nik:man. You know, same thing, I've been watching you from a distance, seeing what you've been doing, and I was just like, yo, I gotta get you on, because you are doing something that is Incredibly, I think important, incredibly challenging, incredibly inspiring. And, I'm excited to, to dig into that with you, you know, and really, let's just go ahead and jump right into the deep end because you just put out a track a week for an entire fucking year. That's insane. That's incredible. So tell me about like, what inspired you to do this in the first place?
Track 1:Okay, let's, let's take, let's take it on back. I'm going to try to, I'm going to try to elucidate here as, as briefly as possible. for those of you that don't know me, I used to be in a, uh, duo called Goshfather and Jinko. We had a lot of success. We made a lot of trap music, a lot of bass music. We, uh, we're kind of, we kind of really, now that I think about it, we kind of came up in the hype machine era. So if you're Gen Z, I'm, I'm literally speaking a rare dialect of Cantonese because no one knows what, they probably don't know what a hype machine is, but basically hype machine was a blog that Basically, if you charted on there, you had a career, and if you didn't chart on there, you were like a invisible ghost traveling through time. So we had a couple of remixes that blew up over there, then we got, you know, we blew up, we were a duo, it was like a trap remix of Dido, Thank You. You know, Tears Gone Cold, I'm Wondering Why, we had a big, then we started touring, shit started getting crazy, we got signed to an agency. Uh, and then we broke up, you know, we had, we just had differences, we, uh, I kind of wanted to make one kind of sound, my partner, Jinko, wanted to make a different kind of sound. so that was around 2015 and then, you know, I lived in LA and I was just like going around. I had a really, you know, that was 2015. That was almost, that was like nine years ago. So, you know, I feel like I was a different human being back then. I was still a child, honestly. I kind of still am, but I really was a child back then. And, uh, you know, I was living in LA, going to parties, doing things. And I really kind of had that mindset back in the day of like, you know, I accomplished all these things, and played with all these people, and played EDC Mexico, and did all this stuff, and I guess now looking back in my head, I kind of was like, I still have clout, I still have clout, and that kind of like mindset kind of really held me back, and the point is that I was living in LA up until 2020 really, I got very lucky and I moved back to San Francisco where I'm born and raised, shout out San Francisco,
Nik:Yeah, Bay Area,
Track 1:Yeah. right before the pandemic. Holy crap. I got very lucky. and point is that like, dude, I had from 2018 to 2020, 2017, 2020, I put out like six songs. In five years. Why did I put out six songs or five, six songs, whatever, in five years? Was it because I was taking creative rest and going at my own pace and protecting my mental health? No, dude, I was a fu I was a bitch. I was incredibly insecure. I had an ego, the size of for what though, you know what I mean? I had, when people, when people say ego, they think it's because someone's arrogant. When I say ego, I mean, this thing that crushes you into complete inaction, this internal thing that says I did this, this entitlement that just crushes you into paralysis. That's what I was walking around with for years, but go, I was definitely going to all the parties. I was definitely saying, Yeah. bro, got shit coming, shit coming, bro. She's come, got stuff on the hard drive, not doing shit, fully scared, fully worried about judgment. And honestly, when the pandemic happened, I had a moment where I was like, okay, might as well, you know, I have all this time now in lockdown. Let's work on music. First thing that happens in March, 2020, 2020, I plug in my hard drive, eight years worth of music studio sessions that some of that I paid for, you know, paid to go with a singer to go do. I plugged one thing wrong and pressed one button, it reformatted the hard drive, and everything was gone.
Nik:ha ha ha ha ha.
Track 1:Eight years of me, the Ding Dong, going to parties in the Hollywood Hills, Yeah. bro, I got some shit man, I got some bangers bro. All that shit that I was telling people that I was working on, that I knew in my heart of hearts I was never actually gonna put out because I was so scared, all gone. So, You want to talk about divine intervention? Goodbye. And I literally was like, dude, I was ready to pay like thousands of dollars to get that data back. I went, I took it to a place, even in the pandemic, nothing impossible to get it back gone. Cause there was a shitty hard drive. I'm an idiot. Self sabotage. Okay. Whatever. Gone. So I basically was like, I was like, it was such a traumatic experience and I'm, I'm not the first and not the last music producer for this to happen but, Then at one point I started like during the pandemic starting actually Because like all the kind of dj homies and stuff where You know We were into like people were into like crypto and all these different kind of like alternative different kind of things I I was like really good at that stuff. So I started becoming friends with like Kind of producers and people that really, but before it was just a different kind of conversation. I was Mr. Get in the email and try to go, Hey, excuse me. Can you listen to my song? I started becoming friends with some pretty big producers that I am fortunate enough to still be friends with. We had our group chats, our group chats that survived the pandemic and, you know, around 2021 and the 20 to one 2022, I started like kind of. Producing music again. Oh guys, what do you think of this guys? What do you think of this? You know, I'm in the group chat with these producers. We're all kind of comfortable. Maybe it's time for me to start. What do you think of this? What do you think of this? What do you think of this being so tentative tentative? Oh, check this out. What do you, what do you guys have any thoughts on this? I was going to quit because I was just like kind of doing it as like kind of a ruse. I, I was still in my old mindset of maybe if this producer guy. Who I admire, says that it's good, that then maybe I can go and finish it. That kind of mindset. Which, which was just an extension of how I was thinking when I was in L. A. You know, same shit. If only someone
Nik:validation,
Track 1:Right. Completely.
Nik:Yeah.
Track 1:At one point, and I honestly was just doing it for shits, I was just like, I'm just gonna quit, this is like bullshit, this is like an empty pursuit, I suck at music, everything sucks, I suck, I suck, I suck. At one point, a producer who shall not be named, but he's a person that kind of saved my life, hit me in the side DMs, and was like, yo, gosh, you keep sending us works in progress. You keep trying to show us stuff. Let me just If I were to tell you that your song that you're showing us is the worst frickin song ever made, am I allowed to curse?
Nik:Yeah, fuck yeah.
Track 1:The worst gosh darn
Nik:Wait, I gotta, I gotta share a funny side note about that. I literally searched in my, in my editing platform how many times I said fuck on my last, on my last episode and it was 43 times. ha. Ha,
Track 1:break that record today ladies and gentlemen
Nik:ha. Let's fucking go.
Track 1:Yeah, so basically it's like listen if I if I if you he was telling me if you showed me a song And I said, this is the worst fucking piece of shit I've ever heard in my life. Quit making music. Or if I said, this record is going to change music forever. He said, it doesn't fucking matter because it doesn't matter what I think. It doesn't matter what all these other producer fuckers think. Everyone's busy in their own world, right? Everybody has their own biases, their own, who knows what they had were eight that day, upset stomach. What matters is what I talking to me, what you as an artist think, and what the fans think when you deliver the product to them in whatever state you deem. It necessary and completed to be delivered that blew my mind. That was in December, 2022 at towards the end of the, it was right before new year's and I was like, you know what, dude, I'm going to do something fucking crazy that I've never done before. Why? Because I lacked the technical ability. I was been a fucking producer for almost a decade. No, it's not because I like technical ability. It's because I was fucking scared of every little mouse running around the holes of my own mind, thinking that I'm getting judged, thinking that I'm going to be, Oh, it's not going to be good. Oh, the snare drum. This fucking bullshit that I inflicted upon myself for such a long time I said i'm not i'm gonna just i'm gonna be a fucking psychopath. I'm just gonna do a song a week And that and I did it and I said i'm gonna give this music shit one more try one more real college try and uh Here I am, dude. I didn't think I was gonna get past week five
Nik:dude,
Track 1:out 52 records had a collaboration with bingo players come out that we were trying to put out for years and it finally came out in april Of last year, bro. I fucking did it and you know it it It changed my mind on a lot of things. So that was my incredibly long, but short story. Hopefully it was short for the listeners aren't weren't getting too waterboarded from, from that story. but yeah, that's, that's kind of where I'm at right now. And I did it and I'm reaping the benefits of my own personal delusions
Nik:yeah, yeah. I love it, man. I really love it. And to be honest, it is such a common challenge. We do have this ego part of our brain that's not just like, yo, I think I'm the shit, but it's also there to protect ourselves. It's this part of our brain that just wants to ensure our survival to make sure that we don't get hurt, to make sure that we don't experience any pain. And this is such a common challenge. Trap that artists get stuck in any creatives really is, you know, what if I put this out and people don't like it? What if I don't get accepted? What if I get made fun of, right? It's a scary thing. And it's that whole, you know, paralysis by analysis. We can just get stuck into not doing anything. So I want to, I want to hear a little bit more about that because, you know, I see people that are still stuck in it all the time, right? That are second guessing themselves that are needing that external validation. why do you think you got caught up in that so much?
Track 1:because it is a, it, you know, I'm no, I'm no psychologist or human behavior, behavioral analyst. But I mean, I. It's a, it's a combination of extreme fear. It's like, it's like a, it's like a deadly, uh, chemical reaction of extreme fear, extreme like analysis paralysis, extreme rejection sensitivity, extreme anxiety. And I know anxiety is a word that gets used in many, many contexts, but in this case it's like, it's just like a creative anxiety, which is like kind of, Usually for a lot of human beings, even if you're not like creativity is not your main thing, creativity usually should be like a bastion for you to get away from the actual problems that sometimes we have in our lives, right? You know, it always think about like, you know, the CEO of a fortune 500 company that goes and plays harmonica on the weekends, you know, in a fucking dive bar that, you know what I mean? That's the one moment when the guy doesn't look like he's, you know, constipated and about to explode. Right. For me, having that creative anxiety, in addition to all those other things, it w it w it was just. You can't, you can't create and you can't do anything else. Right. And it, and
Nik:difference is that you're as an artist who has claimed that this is the thing that I want to do. That's going to be my career. I feel like that's what puts all the pressure on like the CEO can go play the harmonica because he doesn't give a fuck about playing the harmonica, right? It's not what he really cares about. So there's no, there's no pressure
Track 1:there. And you just nailed it, right? It all comes down to identity. It all comes down to identity. I am a, this, I am a, this, the minute you start saying, I am a, this, you are almost implying that, and this is, this is, this is where I think the jump off was for me that I am a, it's, I am a, this because. I am deemed this by an invisible tribunal of infinite peers that are constantly judging my every move, right? It's not just, I am an artist. I am an artist that is not as good as Skrillex and all of my other bros that are producers think I am bad until I am good, so I have to prove to them that I am good. That is bullshit, but that's what happens, and that is, and that is The minute you have the cognitive dissonance of, I'm dope, but then you go home and you don't work on your craft, then you go to a party and you get a little buzz on and you go, Yeah, dude, I got a couple fucking tracks coming up with Steve and Bob and Mike and No you don't. But there's power in going and saying, No you fucking don't. And then leading. The problem is when you look at yourself through the lens of somebody else, you are always going to be, you are always going to find yourself in a really cognitive dissonance position at all times, period.
Nik:can't hide from
Track 1:you can't hide from yourself. but You can be, get really good at doing. your, you know, Gettysburg address at parties in the Hollywood Hills saying, Yeah. brother, I got a couple of things cracking. Yeah. I got a couple of things going on. That is so. The danger is when you become so good at telling the fucking story and become so bad at opening up Ableton or picking up the paintbrush or sitting down at the fucking computer to write or getting in the studio and practicing your dance moves, the minute, because your brain, I believe, at least my brain, my brain is a little fucked up, but the truth is like, If your brain knows when you, in secret, are not following up with the thing that you claim to be your identity, the fundamentals of your identity, I am an, let's talk about in this case, right, electronic music producer, DJ, whatever. I'm a producer, but your brain knows that when you go home, you're scrolling on Instagram going this fucking guy I came up at the same time as him. Why is, he playing EDC this fucking girl? Why is she getting so many likes on her on her on her fucking name? Oh my god. She just knows somebody Oh, he's just friends with the owner if that's what you're spending 99 percent of the time doing which I understand the trap that we fall into because of social media Versus opening up fucking Ableton and just throwing shit at the wall Your brain remembers and your brain will it. that is the darkest spiral as far as I'm good I know we're like going off the subject, but that's a dark,
Nik:is, this is
Track 1:but that's a dark spiral. That is the darkest spiral if you're not stacking Undeniable tangible proof that what you're doing lines up with your identity It's gonna and I'm I mean all jokes aside I mean, This is like a serious thing. it. used to be something that I would be like, uh huh But this is a serious thing. This is where humongous You Mental health problems begin because who you are and what you do is two different things and when that misalignment happens How do we calm the shame? How do we calm the guilt? How do we calm that I should be doing better because these people will judge me but fuck those people what do they know? Anyway darkness darkness darkness, you know,
Nik:I get it, man. I get it. You know, as a coach, as a life coach, there's this whole thing. I'm helping people get their life together. I'm helping them be more disciplined, be more organized, achieve their goals, right? And this is something a lot of coaches fall into is thinking then that we have to be perfect, right? And, and I've gotten caught up in that. And, and I also have to be honest, a lot of times the stuff I'm helping people with, like I'm still working on it too. You know, uh, there's this idea of progress over perfection. And I think that that's such a, a really big foundational piece of, you know, just my process is like, okay, we're. Let's get a little bit better every day. Let's focus on making progress, but also know that we're never going to be perfect. We're never going to fucking always show up and just like always get the work done. You know, we're not machines. We're human. And part of being human is being, is being messy. but I noticed some of that cognitive dissonance as well, where I'm like, damn, like I, I want to be this fucking well oiled, You know, that I'm like, I wish all of my clients can step into their power as well. But there's this interesting, you know, dissonance too, of like, we're actually never really going to be that we're always going to be human and not perfect. You
Track 1:And, and with that said, the jump off, I think some people get it when they're young, some people realize this in some kind of crazy, you know, I always say the broken clock is, You know? right, right. Two times a day, but some people figure this out when they're young. They just go, listen, uh, I just need to do, I need to, I need to make, I'm looking around and I'm seeing, I'm not good. you know, some people get it when they're young and that's how you get legends. That's how you get the Porter Robinson's of the world. That's how you get the Skrillex's of the world because they just go, well, I kind of come from these humble backgrounds. I don't fucking know anybody. I'm just going to do shit. I got to, I got to close the gap. Some
Nik:like, it's like hard work over talent,
Track 1:Oh man, don't
Nik:kind of naturally talented and it seems like it all happens super easily. And then there's the ones that are like, no, I put in my, my 10, 000 hours, 20, 000 hours, and
Track 1:maybe a hundred thousand hours
Nik:workhorse.
Track 1:And that's what I'm saying. so you know, it comes back and you know, this is something that I talk about. Like I'm really, my big platform, believe it or not, is Instagram threads. It's bigger than my IG. It's bigger than my fucking SoundCloud. I really.
Nik:inspiring. Everybody go follow. I like, I like don't really go on threads, but I will go on threads just to follow you and see the inspirational stuff that you're posting every day, like everything that you put out. It's such good just tips and very practical and like everybody go follow him on
Track 1:Thank you so
Nik:he's spitting fire
Track 1:Right. So thank you. I appreciate that so much. And you know, the crazy thing about threads is like, it's like a reset algorithm. Like, so like, you know, Instagram account, my Instagram account is like 12 years old or something or whatever. I don't know if I can. So. It's kind of like fucked up. I, I'm still to this day, like trying to crawl out of this like hole by posting content, giving data and explaining to the algorithm that I'm a musician, I'm a musician. But on Instagram threads, when it came out you start from zero. So I started going music, music, music, music, music. Now all I get is independent artists following me. That's amazing. So I get to, I get this kind of crazy perspective where, cause I'm fascinated with hearing everybody's story because I hear their story and I go, I was just there. I was just there. I was just there mentally where you were. and one thing that I, that always comes up and it comes back to what we were saying is that when you're not creating stuff, when you're not, I'm an artist, I'm a singer, I'm a dancer, I'm an entrepreneur. I'm an, if you're not, if you're saying that and people go, Hey, that's Steve, the entrepreneur guy, but then Steve goes home and like, these fucking people are making more money than me. These fucking guys that don't know shit are making more progress than me. And not working on your thing?
Nik:Yeah.
Track 1:Well, that's going to open the floodgates to thinking that the world is a conspiracy built around fucking your life up. Because that, that's the only thing that can explain why this magical force is stopping you from sitting and doing the thing that you say you want to do.
Nik:Ooh.
Track 1:So, what, what's the antidote? And this is what I see on threads all the time. The people that are not, that are lost a little bit, are not doing.
Nik:Yeah.
Track 1:So what do I tell people on threads all the time? I say, go make fucking garbage. Go make 100 pieces of shit. X. Paintings. Digital arting. Songs. Go make shitty dance routines. Go, uh, Go make shitty business ideas. Go make anything. Because if you're not making something, the darkness creeps in. The whispers start. It's like a fucking horror movie. Oh Yeah. your friend fucked you over, who used to fuck with your business. He doesn't like any of your stuff anymore. He doesn't share any of your shitty, low effort posters of your stupid thing anymore. He must hate you. But, of course, because you don't have any proof that you are working towards something.
Nik:Well, this is, this is the problem is that everybody wants to make something great. It's not just to make something. It's no one's like, oh, I just want to like make a song. Everyone's like, I want to make a fucking great song. I want to make a song that the world is going to listen to and all the DJs are going to play. And it's going to get signed to my favorite label. That's what everybody really deep down wants. But. You can't make something great until you make something good
Track 1:and you can't make something good ha ha!
Nik:you make something bad. So you have to, like, be in that zone of make a lot of bad shit. You don't get to skip levels. You can't get to that level. You got to make a lot of bad stuff. Nobody starts. And I think that that's the cognitive dissonance is they're like, well, I'm an artist. I'm like, I want to be a fucking great artist, but can you be okay with being a bad artist? Cause you have to be bad. In order to be good, in order to be great. Like you don't get to fucking skip it. And that's the, that's the challenge. So I love that you bring that up. Like, yeah, go make a hundred pieces of garbage. Like it's part of the fucking
Track 1:It's the best. Because then, my dude, here's the thing. You or me or anybody that will ever listen to this. Cause this is the thing that I have, Like this is my message, dude. Like, this is the core of my message when I, cause I do also, I do like music coachings, that's like my kind of like side business, I help people with production and stuff, especially after the 52 songs I've gotten like clients that, you know, and people think that. I'm going to go in there and go, okay, so I use this EQ and this compressor. No, dude, do you know how much, I'm sure you know, that's why I'm preaching to the choir here, but dude, some of it, it's, it's a therapy session. It's not a fucking technical dude. You want to learn how to use a compressor, go on YouTube and you won't be in your lifetime, be able to watch all the videos about how a fucking compressor works. So I'm not here to tell you about compressors. I'm here to tell you that if you say that you're an artist, be making art. Because otherwise you're gonna go insane. Here's the thing, I had like a, I had like an epiphany just now when you were saying that. It's like, dude, bad artists are good artists. Because the bad artist, will get, do bad shit for a long time and get bored of sucking ass. you just, that's just how it is. I'm so fucking bad compared to Skrillex. Wait a second. I'm getting a little, wait a second. Hold on. What if on my next song I turn the drums up? Yo, my drums sound fucking good. Okay, okay, okay. Oh shit, actually my bass sounds really bad. Whoa, now my next song, my bass sounds better and my fucking drums are good. That is not gonna happen if you're sitting there going, Well, why does the algorithm make, fucking garbage, dude? make garbage, all day because that's how you become your heroes. That's how you surpass your heroes.
Nik:you won't make garbage forever. It's eventually going to
Track 1:It's impossible. It's gravity. It's like a law of physics, dude. The garbage can only be garbage for so long.
Nik:Yeah. So do you remember 52 to Zoo? Do you remember that campaign
Track 1:oh my God. No, but
Nik:Came around. So this is, check this out, bro. It's going to blow your mind. Zoo did the same thing before anybody knew who zoo was. And I use this as an example all the time, just this whole idea that like quantity is what creates quality. So zoo was a student at USC. He was like
Track 1:he's from San Francisco. Shouts out, shouts out to the boys.
Nik:Yeah. And then, and then he was, you know, down, down in LA and, uh, playing local parties. And then he did a campaign called 52 to Zoo. He put out a track a week on SoundCloud every single week for an entire year. Now, what happened was, you know, he, and I always say he probably made 50 songs before that. He probably made 50 songs after that, you know, he probably had made 200 songs, right? Then, then he
Track 1:probably thousands. Honestly,
Nik:yeah, right? He got discovered by an incredible manager, Jake Udell. They then wiped his whole existence clean and then relaunched him, like making it seem like he came out of nowhere. I think the second song he put out was faded. Faded was like a massive global hit still gets played today. And people are like, Holy shit. This guy came out of nowhere. And it's like, no motherfucker. This dude made. Hundreds of songs to get to the one song that actually really changed his career. He dedicated himself to the process. And that's what I love about what you're doing is like you are focusing on the process rather than the result. The result will come. The result will be, I'm going to get the shows. I'll get the manager. I'll have the big hit. I'll have, I'll get signed to my favorite label. That's all everyone's focusing on the result. I want this thing, but. You got to put 99 percent of your energy into the process. What's the process that's actually going to get you there? The process is sit down and work and hustle and grind and put in the hours. You know, I always use the example of like an NFL team that's trying to win the Superbowl at the beginning of the season. They know we want to win the fucking Superbowl. I know what the target is, but we're not thinking about the Superbowl every day. We're thinking about what is. The game that we're playing this weekend. That's
Track 1:Yeah, exactly.
Nik:then we're focused on in the game We're like, okay, what quarter of the game are we in? Like we got to win the first quarter and in order to win the first quarter. We just got to win this one play What's the one play i'm executing right now, right? And so the same thing's like yo, what's the one thing you need to do today? Let's sit down and work on your fucking
Track 1:So, so, so with that said, it's so, it's so perfect what you're saying. I completely agree. So, and I'm on threads where I've seen it all, by the way, I want to make it clear in the beginning of threads, I was like, Oh, because on me, me personally, when I talk to artists and stuff, like just in general, especially post the 52 songs, and even during dude, I was always like talking people's ears off about like how amazing of experience this is, like how important it is to just do stuff. So for me to have an outlet on Instagram threads, to be able to just like, Put that out and people get like some help out of it, like strangers and stuff. It's amazing. I was attacked like crazy. Everybody thought that I was like a fucking like a hustle culture, guru, fucking like Andrew Tate, fucking of like EDM. No, straight up, dude. People would say nasty things to me. And I was like, you know what, dude, that means that I'm doing something, right? I go, I was so excited when people were saying, fuck you, man. What's next? Let's buy your course. Great. Amazing. That made me so happy because I was like, dude. So, and one of the things is. That example that you just said about the NFL team, I get it. I personally understand exactly how we can equate that to creativity. Dude, people would attack me whenever I would compare shit to athletics. It's all about, this is about our emotional Yes, it is. Our creativity is emotional. So, to compare, combine it, compare it with what you just said about we gotta win the quarter, then we gotta win the season, then we gotta win the whole thing. How I translate that in terms of for creatives is you need to violently focus on falling in love with your process. You need to create a little cozy fucking in, but I don't care how cliche it sounds because I've lived it. And now I get it. You need to make your work environment clean or dirty. If you love dirty, I don't know, whatever the hell light the fucking candles, get the fucking mood lighting, right? Get the monitor looking the way, get everything you need to be. As you need to get serious with the environment and you need to get serious with the process. Whatever you got to do, lie, steal and cheat to be able to get ideas off the ground. You got to do everything you can to make the process like creating fucking toast in the toaster. You need to do it like that is the same thing as like figuring out how we're going to win this quarter, how we're going to get touchdowns. That to me is that equivalent for artists. Like you have to just put blinders on and go, I look like a fucking dork. I'm silly. Nobody does X thing that I'm trying to do to be creative this way. I'm still going to do it. Cause it means something to me. And as you do that going, this is who I am and accepting it because it's an organic thing that you did. It's, it's everything. And I think maybe it's sports. I'm not much of an athlete, if you can imagine, but for me, it's like, How many ways can we figure out to not second guess ourselves in the entire process starting from I'm dragging in one Fucking snare sample in or I'm choosing what I'm gonna wear when I announce my Las Vegas residency Okay, everything needs to be you and I just this is like a Skrillex just now one of the Grammys I literally have Skrillex Uh, Grammy acceptance speech as my, uh, phone background. You know, just so people can see, you know, success is something that success is something that you attract. He said also in like a red carpet thing, he was like, some guy asked him at the red carpet. It was like, you know, on my, the interviewer said, my, uh, my brother is like, Oh, up and coming producer. What would you have to say to up and coming producers that are like yourselves trying to make it happen from their bedrooms? He said something, he said something along the lines of you have to be so in You have to be into what you're creating. You have to be into what you're doing, because if you're not, dude, you can't put a gun to somebody's head and have them understand number one. And number two, love with their whole heart, what it is you're adding to the world creatively. And once you realize that is when people you create, that is when you open up yourself to be able to actually create something that people can love. Every artist that everybody admires sat down and said, fuck. this. Everyone's doing something. I can't fucking copy them anymore. I'm done. I'm too good at copying I'm gonna be a dumbass and i'm gonna try this kind of vocal and this kind of sound that isn't popular and then you win
Nik:yeah, man.
Track 1:Multiply that times time and you win. That's it.
Nik:We've both seen it with a lot of our mutual friends, you know, a lot of, a lot of the guys from icon that like went on to go really, really blow up and really like get out there. Every single one of them was doing something different, you know, and I credit a lot of that to just the philosophy of like the art of flow class that we taught there, which was
Track 1:Heard a lot about that. Yeah.
Nik:Like tap into like get out of your mind. Your mind is going to copy what other people are doing because that's the safe route. There's guaranteed success.
Track 1:Well, Well, there isn't.
Nik:get that's what we think
Track 1:That's the, yeah, exactly. Yeah.
Nik:That's the way the mind fucks with. He's like, Oh, well, that's what's working. So that's what I should do to be successful. So we start copying, you know, what's already out there. And the whole idea is like, no, you know, Go really tap into what feels good to you and trust that. And, and even if it guides you somewhere, that's really weird and really different. And it was like, okay, all of a sudden Keizo starting to fuck with hardstyle and hardstyle wasn't cool. He's putting hardstyle kick
Track 1:Put it on the map, put it on the
Nik:creates his own lane. Keaton picks up his fucking guitar and he's like, yo, Sullivan King, I'm going to start just playing guitar on my fucking tracks and like, boom, what do you know? Creates his own lane, jaws with fill the volume, fucking slander, bringing in like trance sounds into, into trap. You know, it was just like all, all these guys are just like, you know what, fuck it. We're going to make some shit that we think is dope and just trust that. And it's like, cool. You know, and again, also not to. Not to be chasing the success though, because it's also like, there's like a paradox there too. If you're like, Oh, I'm going to do this because this is what's going to make me successful. You can also still, it's like, as long as you're still chasing it rather than tuning into your own heart and soul. Also your own heart and soul might want to make the same shit that everybody's making because you fucking love it. And if you love it,
Track 1:For, for sure. For sure. I these days like really try to, I'm trying as Much as I can, I threa And me interacting with people on threads has helped a lot. But dude, trying to look at things not from the industry, like, Ind people jaded, like us, like, industry people kind of point of view. Look at look at the from the perspective of the fans, dude. Fans know the difference between, like, this fake, well manicured, like, fuckin dubstep guy, who, like, looks like, you know, oh my god, I, you know. Or a guy that, like, is fuckin passionate. Like, a great example of these guys levity. Have you, have you heard about that? Anyway, these guys just, dude, they make dope, they have, they have some pretty dope music. They're like, they're, uh, but dude, they're pure energy. You can't fake them. Their content, they're in love with it, Are they making, are they, are they changing Dubstep the way that Skrillex did when he came out? I don't know, but dude, these guys are getting a rabid fanbase because they are not fucking joking about how much they're loving it. So guess what? Okay, and I wanted to I want to actually cover a thing that you were saying here Another phenomenon that I realized that I went through and I'm seeing it now all over the place and recognizing what it was Is you also get to the point as an artist especially in the production world music production whatever when you get really good at copying something and your shit actually starts sounding really like good like good good because you put in the Hours and you're you know that you're Jesus a parent on serum and you can do all this stuff and you're like amazing You Then a new thing happens that a lot of people I'm noticing a huge amount of people are stuck at what you're from zero, you're in the bedroom, you don't even know how to drag in a drum loop. Then you become hella good. You become hella good at making like, you know, excision songs, but you're, you know, you know how to make use all the sounds, you know how to make it. But then what happens is you hit a ceiling, not of skill, but of entitlement. This is something that's very interesting that I'm noticing all the time. Kids that are getting, that are hella good, that know they're hella good, that know they have the sauce, immediately go I demand stuff. Why is it that I'm so fucking good, and they are? From a technical perspective or maybe even a musical and interesting idea perspective. Now you've hit a new plateau where it's no longer a skill ceiling. It's an entitlement ceiling, where if you think just because you're fucking good at music, that you think that you deserve stuff, you're done just because you did a thing and you think you deserve a reaction from somebody else. You're done for And this is the thing that I see all the time, because you have these kids that now start going. Oh, so, so, okay. How does it. manifest itself? Why we, we need more, uh, undiscovered artists on lineups. Bro, your social media content is you complaining about lineups. Your social media content is complaining that we have to make short form content to promote our music in a world where. 99 percent of, like, I always say this, You know, uh, to be a little morbid, people get into car accidents because they're watching TikToks. So if people's lives are less important than watching some fucking person doing a dance, that's where the attention is at. So it's like that, when people's content becomes sick, like, fucking logo and sick branding and duh duh duh, and then like some sick, like, show thing, and they're amazing, they have amazing, like, music, and then they're just complaining all day, you're screwed!
Nik:Yeah.
Track 1:going to go, Oh my God, this guy is such an amazing producer. And the way he fucking complains and cries all day on Twitter. Oh, I cannot wait to buy a ticket, but dude, this is what happens. And it, it requires it's it's so what, I always say on threads is like self awareness is your nuclear weapon in your arsenal. As an artist, self awareness is your secret weapon. If you can't realize that you've hit a plateau, whether it's ideologically or creatively. If you can't take a step back and go, Ooh, here are several worldviews or things that I believe about the industry or creativity that are fucking holding me back. You're in big trouble because if you're surrounded, if you, if you're in an echo chamber, everyone's like, dude, you're so fucking sick. You deserve to be at EDC dog. And you don't have a moment to like question that it's like, Hmm, maybe I'm a dick or maybe there's like something about me that I'm just not emphasizing. that's not getting me into those conversations that could get me there. You're going to be in big trouble, no matter how I hate this word. This is going to be a whole nother conversation, but I despise the word talent. I hate the word talented. I'm not just saying that. Right.
Nik:here's, here's, here's the thing. They're not actually good and they're not actually talented at being an artist, at least right now, because there's a bigger picture of what it actually takes to be an artist. Like, and I say that there's five things. And you could be really, really good at music. And I think that's who we're talking about. These guys that are
Track 1:like, geniuses. Geniuses.
Nik:fucking good at making music. And it's like, cool. There's also more stuff that you have to be good at, right? You have to have for, and first for me, the foundation is the mindset and the mindset is all, that's like the energy. Like, are you having fun? Do you have good energy? Do you have a good mindset? Do you have, you know, do you have a growth mindset? Are you, are you positive? Right? Like, do you believe in yourself? You have to be good at the mindset side. You have to be good at music, but you also have to be good at, At branding, you have to be good at marketing. You have to be good at networking. So just because you're good at that one thing, that's only 20 percent of it, right? Are you actually good at all the other stuff? Because somebody that's actually really good at marketing and networking and not as good as music, it will fucking bypass you, you know, very, very quickly if you are not good at those things
Track 1:That happens daily. On a daily
Nik:And, and and back to the, the mindset part of it is if you want to fight that and resist and resist that and be like, well, it shouldn't be that way. You know, I should just be able to be good at music and rah, rah, rah. You know, like that's the sort of victim mindset and the entitlement where it's like, all right, well, yeah. And that's where like, okay, this, that's the piece that you really got to work on then is the mindset part. Because until you get out of the fucking victim hood, you're never, you're never going to really get the results that, that you want to
Track 1:Correct. And people aren't told that, and I think that's, that's a big pity. I think people don't realize it, and they don't have somebody in their life, maybe until it's, like, too late, like, you know, maybe it gets to the point, well, too late meaning, they go and they have, like, a big opportunity, meeting with a manager, da da da and they squander it because of their entitlement. I mean, dude, we, these are the unspoken, you know? this is probably happening on a day by day basis, and, Like, there's certain people that I come in contact with, like, I mean, on Instagram threads, I keep coming back to it because I'm meeting all walks of life on there. I'm meeting people that are just busking and love it, and like, they sing on guitar at the train station. Some people that are, you know, up and coming dubstep producers. I have people that are up and coming, you know, people that are booking their first, like, Beyond Wonderland, uh, after years of grinding. I have people that all, and I'm fascinated with all their stories. Because, number one, I love their stories. Helping them. I love learning the stories, but also of course, and it's kind of a selfish way, it also validates a God of things that I'm starting to learn about. Right now as an artist, you know what I mean? So it's very, it's very, very true. yeah, sometimes if like you're a dick or I guess this thing, what, like you, you were talking about jaws, you're talking about like a lot of these different people that you mentioned, the one very interesting thing that a lot of these people, especially the icon gang, you know, you're talking about solving King case. Well, again, these are all my homies. I have songs. I have a, I have a song with Sullivan King. I have an old remix with cases. These are, we go back. I
Nik:was, I was, I was managing him at
Track 1:right, right, right. Dude, he's, they're brilliant. But here's the thing dude, all those people that you mentioned, and honestly everybody, fuck it, literally anybody that is out there really doing it big. It really is an incredible, they have the ability to turn on the professional, the networker, the, but also know not how to not get walked all over, have their own taste, and that meets in the middle with all of the music that meets in the middle with all the creative, creative, visionary stuff. And that's what I noticed, like, Jaws, Jaws, Jaws is a homie of mine. Dude, what's incredible about him, I'll never forget I did a studio session with him one time. And he had a, he, we were just fucking around, making music, whatever, we were, you know, roasting each other, whatever, had that kind of relationship. Then, like, somebody called, like, You know, whatever, not, without going into details, like, a very big DJ called. And, like, his demeanor kind of shifted to, like, this kind of professional person, because they had, like, a collab, uh, collab or something, I forget what the context was. But, like, you saw Why this guy is why he is because he's able to do this. And he's able to do this. He has his own ducks in order, whether he didn't have a management or like a team around him. The way that gravity works is people like that will find their people because they simply have the house in order. So what happens is it's like, you know, people that think I'm good at music. Love me, manage me, agent, gigs. You're big trouble,
Nik:Yeah, Yeah, you're good at music, but your attitude sucks and you're not professional. And yeah, like you said, you got to have your own, your own house in order. I mean, to be honest, man, that's, that's exactly why I've gotten into this path of what I'm doing when I really just got into straight up like life coaching and, uh, really focusing on the other stuff is. I've saw thousands of people come and go and it's like out of those thousands of people who are the ones that really have gone on to like establish a career for themselves and have it, uh, you know, it's like the majority of people really haven't, you know, and that was the question that I always just kept asking. What's the difference? Like, yeah, obviously it's, you know, You know, the great music and marketing and branding and all of that, but underneath it, like below the tip of the iceberg, it's the actual character and the mindset and the attitude and the energy, you know, and, and that's, that's, that's why it's like that conversation has to be had. Everybody's just looking at like, well, how do I get more followers? How do I, you know, How do I like build my social media? How I do this? And I'm like, yeah, that's, uh, that's a part of it. But this other piece underneath it, that is the, that's the parking break. That's like, you're trying to accelerate through your fucking life and your career and just wondering like, damn, why is this so hard? Why am I not accelerating the level of that? I want to, that's the invisible parking break. When you can get that shit dialed in and cleaned up and work on
Track 1:You, and you know what, and you know what creates acceleration? I believe now that, I mean, I'm understanding this. And I'm saying now because, you know, looking back at how I was after I broke up with the, with my old, uh, DJ production partner. Dude, it was just years of entitlement and fucking pain that I was inflicting upon myself, okay? Period. Dude, nobody was telling me to fucking doom scroll and not work on my songs and fucking go to parties and get fucked up and tell people that I'm working on shit. Nobody told me to do that. Okay. But what I realized was, dude, the entitlement and that thing that it's like it's, I need to, I want more followers. I want that. I, I, I, I, I'm so good. Why? Everyone sleeping on me. Oh, it must be that TikTok did this to me. Oh my. The promoters are fucked up. Oh, lineups are this and that. The secret is, dude, when you give. You get when you give you get when you give you get and this is the thing it took me a long time to understand this Uh, I I almost I hate to say it but it wasn't until pretty much like last year when like You know during the 52 when I I mean this was such a humbling experience for me to put out music Because I didn't have a chance to like breathe and it's good because I didn't have a chance to Second guess and worry about shit that didn't fucking matter shit that I held so dearly. Oh my god What is this? Here's the thing like I What ended up happening was people started approaching me and going, Hey dude, I really like what you're doing, can you show me how to do this? And then I started realizing, dude, like, this is like some purpose shit. Like if I can actually go and inspire somebody with my actions or with my words, and even like small conversations, I mean, there's people that have, that are now doing, I'm not trying to say that I'm genius for doing this, but it's like, there's people that I've had conversations with that. I was like, you know, I don't, I don't think creativity is a fucking numbers game. You shouldn't do this if you don't want to, but there's people that are now on this path, putting out a song a week because I did it and. Like, to me, it's like, I wanna fuckin nurture those people. I wanna take care of those people. Those are my people now. Those are fellow survivors of what they're about to do to themselves.
Nik:yeah,
Track 1:like, I feel like I'm only now, dude, for the, I've been saying, I say this all the time. This is like my fifth music career. I've had the up and the down and the up and the down and the up and the down. And now it's like, you know, people always think like, Oh, what if I went back to high school with the knowledge that I have now, or go to college with like the brains that I have now, I feel like that's what I'm doing with music. I'm starting from zero. Okay. I'm starting from nothing. I really felt that way. And the thing that I'm doing this time. I'm now seeing that a lot of artists that are coming up or not doing is focusing on your people. It's about them. It's not about you cool DJ. It's not about you cool producer talented. It's about the minute somebody fucking fucks with you. You, you show that gratitude to them. You make them feel like that they're enlisted in an army of yours and you feed them with whatever it may be. Support, you know, making them feel seen. I will never go back to the way that I was. I had my music signed to spinning records multiple times. Okay. For a lot of people out there, that is a fucking, they would do unspeakable, horrible acts to even get the demo listened to. And I. Mr. Fuckin I did it, ha ha ha. Guess what happens, dude? All this new influx of people came liking my music. I didn't give a fuck. Not that I didn't give a fuck. I just didn't have the tools to, like, cater to humans. Because I was like, I'm the shit, bitch. I did, I'm, I'm the phoenix rising from the ashes. Never again will I ever take regular humans, listeners, people for granted. And I'm gonna give to them as much as I can. That's, that's my pledge right now.
Nik:So good, bro. So good, man. It's, it's beautiful to hear that. Like it truly is. I feel like that's part of my vision and just mission as well is to Help people wake up to that truth, right? Because we also see so many artists that, and just people like anybody that's just chasing success. It's like, we see it all the time. Like you can get all the success and then still not be happy and still not be miserable. And this is like back to. Like this deeper conversation of just being human, right? If your whole life is around, what can I get? You are going to live a very miserable life. You are not going to find the joy and the fulfillment. You will get the cars and the houses and the partner and like all of those things, but we see it all the time. A lot of people are fucking unhappy, but what actually makes us happy, right? And usually it's about, it's around more. More around having good relationships, right? Bringing joy, feeling like you're in your purpose, like giving your gift. You know, there's something special about that. It's like when we go to shows like most of us probably fell in love with music because we were going to going to parties, going to shows because we were connecting with people. There was energy there, right? It really is about that energy. And I think you're hitting on the secret sauce, which is shifting from, you know, Operating from your ego and it being about what can I get into? What can I give? There's a different energy that comes with that. The whole process is way more fun. It feels so much better. You know, I, I, I really resonate, you know, like I'm, I resonate with the 52. Uh, because I've been putting out the podcast every week, every Monday since I started and we're getting close. Yeah, we're getting close to 50, like we're coming up to a year pretty soon. And I'm like, it's such this cool milestone. It wasn't really even meant to be in the first place, but it was just a natural consequence of, uh, once I started seeing that there was. You know, a community, uh, evolving around this, I got really, I got really dedicated to be like, yo, I'm like, I am going to show up every fucking week and make sure that I deliver. And the consequence of that has been building beautiful relationships. It has been connecting with so many people. And now there's like the personal satisfaction of like, yo, like I, if I can, I'm going to hit a year. Like, that's a really, that's a really
Track 1:It's beautiful, dude. It's
Nik:It's something about like the, about consistency and about giving, right? Just giving consistently. If you can just show up in that space and in that energy, like really cool shit's going to happen and you, and you might not know what it is, but like, just, just trust that whatever energy you put out is the energy you're going to get
Track 1:Trust, see, and that, so here we go, and that's another huge thing, what you just said, is about trust. This shit is all about trust. And what people don't realize is that it begins with trusting yourself. How the fuck are people gonna trust you, or anyone, as an artist, a manager, a fuckin promoter, you know, we're talking in the context of like, you know, dance music, whatever. How's a collaborator gonna trust you to come through if you can't? And what I'm realizing more and more, dude, I think that's what I was trying to say with the Jaws example in the case or whatever example is like, they just, they trust themselves and via them trusting themselves with their vision at the very minimum, they become trustworthy. And I mean, I don't have to say that all these artists that we mentioned, they don't, they're not playing, put, put your fucking hands up fucking, you know, small rooms. They're playing fucking arenas in order. And for, to play an arena, it's like. Tens of maybe hundreds of people sometimes are involved in the, they have to, we have to trust each other. And how can you achieve something like that? If you can't even begin to trust yourself and I'm not trying to see. So, you know what I mean? So it's exactly, and how, what is the mathematical equation for self trust? If you're a creative person to be able to keep a promise to yourself and go, I'm going to fucking put my head down and create stuff and focus on my vision. It just starts with that.
Nik:Yeah.
Track 1:That's it. Like that's a basic and people skip that, you know, so
Nik:Yeah, having integrity saying, you know, and I like to I like to get a little woo woo in that
Track 1:all right I'm with i'm
Nik:the self, the self trust, right? I've like, okay, I made a promise that I'm going to show up to the studio every day, or I'm going to deliver a track every week. If I've made the decision that I'm going to show up and do the work, I'd show up and I do the work. And every time I do that, I have more self trust because I'm keeping that promise with myself. I also like to think about it. I don't know if you ever read the book, the war of art,
Track 1:I have it. I have a copy of it. Shout out to my my friend. Uh, yeah Yeah, yeah, I have I have
Nik:It's, it's, it's cool that you haven't read it because you've actually been living it. You've been doing exactly what he talks about, which is Being a professional versus being an amateur and amateur only shows up when they feel inspired a professional shows up every day No matter what I said, I'm gonna show up even if I don't
Track 1:we're garbage men dude, we're garbage men crack it
Nik:the resistance Yeah, even if the resistance is there I still show up and I put in the work and I do the hours, right? So there's that sense of self trust and also I like to think that there is this Magical spiritual essence out there that, that, that we can call the muse, you know, in Greek mythology, we call it we call it the muse, the goddesses of inspiration that come down and give you those, those beautiful ideas. When you're in the studio, it literally, literally is where the word music comes from. It comes from the muse. And so if you aren't showing up consistently, I like to think about it like, You have a relationship. This is like your mistress, you know what I mean? This is like being in a relationship with the muse. If you don't show up consistently, like that's not going to be a very good
Track 1:She's not, she's gonna leave you. She's gonna, She's gonna stop showing up. She or he, she or he will stop showing up, dude. Listen, it, and
Nik:you show up every day, if you show up and I'm curious, like, did you experience this as you showed up more and more? Did the inspiration, was the inspiration like more
Track 1:oh my god, oh
Nik:The muse was, the muse was in the
Track 1:Oh my god, dude, I mean
Nik:You're gonna love this
Track 1:No, i'm down. I'm super. No. Well to answer your question and I also want to pose the same question to you after this, but I got it There what Let me I want to I want to explain how my process what my process turned into after like 10 weeks It got to the point where I was just like I just knew I would be working on something and literally the the mindset is like, you know It's sunday night or saturday night. I gotta put a song out on monday. It's gotta happen rain or shine I'm already here. I'm in too deep I got to the point where my brain got, my brain got on my team for once in my life. It's still not on my team on like a lot of other aspects of my life that I wish I could like fucking, you know, uh, whip it into shape. But like it got on my team where I was like, I would be trying, trying, trying. Oh, I'm shit. I'm crap. I'm an imposter. I suck. I suck. I suck. I suck. I suck. Boom. Something happens. I put the right combination of drums and melodies and baseline, whatever. And dude, I got up. I'm on a standing desk right now, but I would get up out of my seat when I had something and I would just like. And by the way, I produced all my music on gamer headphones. So as you can see, like I've, I live in San Francisco. It's a very thin walls, kind of residential area. I don't use studio monitors. So, so these are my, I produced all 52 records. Uh, well, minus, minus the bingo player ones. Cause we were kind of doing that from before, but, I produced it all on gamer call of duty headphones. and dude, I what was great is. No excuses, But the point is that I, you know, they're wireless. Like get up and pace around, pace around the room. And I would literally, my litmus test for if I'm, I'm good, I'm onto something is when I would, my body would physically react. So that's what I'm trying to say. At one point, my body, I was listening to my body, having that mind, body muse, creativity connection. And I would literally just wait until I got that feeling and then go, okay, you're in and that momentum from that excitement of me, like finding something. Would lead me to finish that song sometimes just in that session. So yes, the answer is you give yourself clues, but you cannot understand the creative clues unless you're in it. Like you can't be doom scrolling on social media thinking that the local promoters fucking don't book you because of your haircut and, and get inspired to go and make. Some beautiful music. It's not going to happen. You have to be in the trenches. We keep talking about like, this is the thing, also the language that we use about like grinding and in the trenches, bro, this is your escape. This is your ticket into like infinity. This is your ticket into like a legacy as an artist. If that's what you care about, this should be a sacred experience. It should be an exciting, fun. Shut the world off experience. The more resistance we have to it, the less results happen towards our dreams. Right. Or the less mind body create a connection is happening for you to be able to sustain it and maybe one day do make something that makes you into Calvin Harris or the next Skrillex or whoever your hero is.
Nik:and I think it's important to also normalize the resistance though as well where it's like the resistance is normal. The resistance shows up, right? Because it is, you know,
Track 1:it's still here for me. I'm in fog.
Nik:right. And so. Not running away from it, really, though. Where it's like, oh, like,=it doesn't feel good right now. And like, oh, I'm not inspired. Or like, oh, I really just want to go doom scroll or watch Netflix instead. Like, the resistance is natural. Like, like, this is what Steven Pressfield talks about in his book. Is like, anytime, anytime there is a big creative calling on your heart. It's like, it's something that is good for you. It's good for your soul. It needs to be brought to the world. It's natural that there's going to be resistance to it. And it's like the bigger the calling is, the bigger the resistance is. And our game is to kind of befriend the resistance. Usually though, what we're doing is we're just running away from it all the time. Can you still sit down and be with it? And then eventually it's like, there will be less resistance, but a lot of people don't make it past that initial stage of like, Oh, all this resistance is here. And you know, that's where we just end up like fucking off and all our vices, you know, all our
Track 1:yes, all of our shortcomings shortcomings come to the
Nik:just, Yeah.
Track 1:how so I want to ask you because I'd be like, You know we're philosophizing here a lot But like with that said like do you what do you feel? Because again, my other thing that I'm always thinking about is like dude I know I'm talking to musicians a lot, but I feel like these these principles apply to anybody dude I don't care if you're starting to make a fucking app on the cell phone or you're a ballerina or a lawyer It's the same shit, dude. So I'm gonna ask for you like What did you have? How about this? Did you have like a specific interview or like a specific moment in this kind of journey that you're doing with this amazing podcast that you're doing, these amazing conversations you're having where you were like, holy shit, this is, this is, we're we're cooking now. Was there a moment, was there a conversation? I'd love to hear what that was, for you.
Nik:You know what it was was really just getting the feedback from people, because when I started, I didn't really have a big plan for this. I was just like, I have this
Track 1:that's the fucking
Nik:have this little voice in the back of my head. That's like, I, I think I should do a podcast and, and I know myself where I'm like, I can sit on an idea for like years and not take action. So I was like, you know what? I was like, I'm going to just put, I'm going to go on Amazon and just like put the like microphone and like the whatever equipment I need. I'm going to just put it in the cart. It was like, it was, you know, it was like a, whatever, a couple hundred bucks or something. And then the next day I was like, I just have to buy it. I was like, I just got to click the fucking button. If I click the button, I'm going to do it. I didn't know really where it was going. Just started hitting up some friends. Uh, you know, you guys want to hop on my podcast. And. Really what it was was, you know, I think within a, you know, however many episodes it was seeing just like the DMS come through and people being really like, yo, like, this is really, really, really useful. Thank you so much for what you're doing for the community. I've been looking for something like this. And I was like, Oh shit, like this is actually really adding value. And so then it, then it really became about like, wow, how can I, how can I add value? How can I, you know, Contribute to the community. How can I help people? How can I really be in service? You know, and so it took a life of its own after after a while, but definitely, I think, you know, receiving, um, yeah, receiving the feedback and knowing that that was that that was working, which, you know, I was fortunate to get that. And I could see how Maybe as an artist though sometimes like you might not get that feedback for a while and so we also can't be attached to the feedback and just to still like to still keep going with it and just trusting, you know, I was also having fun with it. Like I've loved this shit. Like, you know what I mean? Like I, I love. It's been such a good excuse to just like hit up old friends. You know, we haven't talked in a long time getting to catch up with people. Like I get, I get pumped up, you know, as I get fucking energized by these. So I love doing it, you know? yeah, so
Track 1:Dude, that's amazing. Let me ask you this. Now, now it's now it's the Goshfather podcast. Now I'm interviewing you, dude.
Nik:Yeah. Yeah. Flip it.
Track 1:Can I, uh, what, what was, uh, I know you have it at the tip of your tongue. Give me a moment from an interview that really, like, blew your mind. Give me, give me, I wanna, I wanna, I wanna be able to have it on this interview, too. Like, what was one where you were like, Damn, that's, that's some shit that I didn't even consider. Something just profound or, something that somebody said that you didn't even, just blew your mind. Or affected you in some way.
Nik:Yeah. let me, let me uh, let me think on that for a second. Cause there's been, there's been so many, there's been so many good
Track 1:something that surprised you maybe. He's going through the, he's going through the clips.
Nik:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, actually. Okay. I'm gonna I'll throw I'll throw it. I'll throw a good one. I'll throw a good one out there. I'm not I'm not going to name the artist. I it's actually pretty pretty probably one of the biggest artists that I've had and we uh, This was, this was very early on in like the first couple episodes and we had the most incredible conversation and like literally like, you know, got really deep and really vulnerable. very, very, like very, very real and like even had like some tears come up, you know, and I think that was when I realized I'm like, Oh, like we're, we're going deep, you know, and this. Podcasts and these conversations have the potential, you know, depending on how willing the the, you know, the topic, but also how willing the guest is to be vulnerable or it's like this. This is a really beautiful human to human experience and moment. And then of course I also had like not checked the audio settings properly because I was just learning how to use the program and like the audio was all fucked up and like we couldn't we we I tried to edit it like we
Track 1:didn't work. Oh
Nik:there's a secret there's a secret unreleased episode where we're literally fucking going deep as
Track 1:Oh no.
Nik:and uh and it will never be it will
Track 1:Damn. Well, there's some kind of cosmic, cosmic cancer for that. so, so you, you just touched on something is, um, my thing is like, you know, to, to talk about vulnerability, talk about authenticity. that's something that honestly, like Instagram threads and this whole entire process to do songs. It's something that I realized. is another huge aspect of like my public persona that I was missing and it's something that I'm starting to kind of like come out and say and like I'm and talk about openly and like it's it's wild because I, what I'm realizing is that this whole pursuit that I'm doing, everything that I'm doing is trying to be creative. It's almost me really trying to prove to myself that I'm not a loser. And I, how, and the way that I explain that is I'm trying to do it in like a healthy way where, again, before I was trying to do it in an unhealthy way. People need to like me so I can then get the data to then realize that I'm worth Existing and, you know, having friends and receiving love and all those things. And what I realized through this kind of process is that I needed a tune up on my own self love. Right. And that's what this is really all about. Ultimately, it comes back to what we're saying about trust. And it's like this whole process of putting this music out was very fun, but it was also very scary for me because it was like the The voices of you're not worth it. You're a piece of shit. All the times you ever fucked up in your life, those were real. And those were valid. And everybody thinks that about you forever and nothing you can ever, I mean, dude, like two, those were the voices that I was up against when I was fucking dragging in splice samples, like, dude, it's fucking crazy, violent, what we inflict upon ourselves in our own, Story we tell ourselves and our inner dialogue about ourselves and the way we talk about ourselves in our minds. And especially if we're creative people, right? Because there's something about being creative that we're attempting to fill some kind of lack of love gap via doing something to then barter for our love from others. And that was something that I realized I had a huge issue with. And that's why. Through all this and having that conversation with myself and trying to defeat that and trying to really because you'll never defeat it But trying to get a hold get a grip of that like relationship with myself Starting to talk about that publicly and say hey, I've been down to the depths I've hit rock bottom of hating myself of partying of making an ass out of myself when I was drunk all those things came alongside with the desire for me to prove Basically, when the negativity takes over, you prove to the world that those negative things you feel about yourself are real. Right? That's where the self sabotage comes in. I'm a piece of shit. No one likes me. I'm not worth it. I'm an imposter. You go get drunk and you black out and you say something terrible. And you do something fucking annoying. You just become awful. That is how those things manifest itself. And it's like that, for me, talking about that on Instagram threads, And going, yo, I was a piece of shit. Uh, I fucking hated myself. I fucking hate, I think I was never going to make it, but if I can be able to do it, despite all of these barriers that I've set up for myself, then somebody else that's maybe younger, more capable, more excited, you guys can do it too. You
Nik:Yeah. I love, I love to hear that because there is a bit of a healing process available to you, right? We're just shining the light on healing. There is some darkness here. There is a lack of self love. There are some things that I've done and a lot of us bury that down rather than just say, Hey, let's shine a big spotlight on it and let's bring it to the surface. Because you know, what, what you resist persists when you start to actually look at it, right. And, and talk about it. You know, that's why therapy is so effective. I have, I have a quick coaching
Track 1:Sure. Please do. Please
Nik:it. Because you did say that I heard what you don't want to be you said, you know, I don't want to be a loser What is it that you do want to be?
Track 1:It's almost like I'm trying, I'm trying to heal an old version of me that I see in a lot of other people, I want to be able to be a person that can inspire people. I, I, I, now I feel like I've, I've kind of made peace with who I currently am. It's this extremely imperfect. it's this imperfect person that is, um, going to have to. Accept in a positive way. my past, what I am now and what I potentially could be. I just want to be able to inspire people. I want to be able to inspire people with my story. I want to be able to inspire people with my action. And if that's the only interaction that I have with somebody, especially like whether it's people I'm coaching, Instagram threads and stuff. I want them to not go, wow, this guy is fucking so cool. I want them to walk away, be going, going, I. Now have been given the license. I hope I know I'm rambling here But if that was a bit of a cop out feel free to feel free to drag me over the coals here Because I because I'm I am down to go into that but you know But that's kind of that's how I want to be remembered I want to be remembered as a guy said wow that fucking guy can do it I can fucking do it then I won mission accomplished dude.
Nik:Yeah, and I just want to remind you and reflect back that you already are Doing that and you already
Track 1:you. I
Nik:you're inspiring people with your threads with your content with your music I'm you know, you are the kind of person that when you walk in the room you you change the energy of the room and I know that you're inspiring a lot of people by hopping on this podcast today and sharing your story. That was so fucking fire I'm so So excited to share this with everybody, but, um, I appreciate you so much for, for hopping on man. And like, you really, truly, truly are an inspiration. There's a reason that I reached out to you specifically because I see you, I saw what you're doing. I was like, yes, this is exactly the kind of energy, the kind of mindset, the kind of person that I want to have on this podcast because people need to hear that story and they need to, you know, be able to, to really, uh, experience just this energy that you're bringing, man. So thank you so much for hopping on today. You're the
Track 1:I'm so grateful to have done this bro. Thank you so much And if there's one thing that I could say to people that are listening, it's like dude Go make garbage, go make, the minute You're done listening to this, go make meme, meme joke level fucking crap, because there's going to be somebody else that is more talented than you, knows more people in the industry than you, that is not doing shit out of fear. How do you go and compete with those people? You make garbage until it becomes a treasure. That's it. So I hope everybody listening to that can take that to heart and crack Ableton open and let's fucking go today. Let's go.
Nik:Let's fucking go.