The Final Episode!

After 2.5 years and 106 episodes of the Headliner Podcast, we are officially complete!

Thank you SO MUCH to all of the guests that took time out of their lives to share their energy, inspiration and wisdom with us. And thank you to all of YOU for listening, sharing and supporting over the years.

My heart is FILLED with gratitude as I wrap up this Hero's Journey and move on to the next chapter and adventure. Wishing you all the best as you continue to create, express, share and grow :)

-Nik

Transcript

Nik: 0:00

I'll plant my flag on this statement to end the fucking Headliner Mindset podcast journey. That being an artist is about being unique, being yourself, finding yourself, having the courage to be real and raw. And do you, because nobody can do you better than you.

Speaker 6: 0:28

What's up everybody? Welcome to the final episode of the Headliner Mindset Podcast. That's right after two and a half years and over a hundred episodes of interviewing the dopest artists and music industry professionals in the electronic music scene. I am finally closing out this chapter and it certainly. Has been a journey. It's been a blast. I just can't say enough amazing things, uh, about everything that we've done together. And I say we, because all of you that have been listening and tuning in have, just been such a big part of this process. It wouldn't exist without you. So. Thank you all so much for tuning in over the years and in this final episode, I sit down with my good friend, Caitlin. She has been on a few times before under her previous artist's name, Freddie Lane. But we actually turned the tables so that she could interview me and I could have a chance just to. Fill you guys in on where my life has been, where my mind and my heart has been, and what's next. And just give all of you a proper thank you and a proper farewell. So without further ado, please enjoy the final episode of the Liner Mindset Podcast.

Katelyn: 1:46

Our farewell.

Nik: 1:47

our, our farewell. Oh, man. It's been a journey. It's been a journey, Caitlin.

Katelyn: 1:53

It really has, and I'm honestly very honored that you chose me to close out this very significant chapter of your life. Very excited to chat with you.

Nik: 2:04

A hundred percent. I mean, you also had this idea, which was a brilliant idea because this is the fourth episode that we've done together. First with you as an artist. Then you interviewing me for my six month episode, my, my Milestone, and then we interviewed you again when you closed out your project, and then you had the brilliant idea that it only makes sense that, that you interview me for this final, final Yeah. Closing out of my project as well, which is, uh, oh my God. It's just so surreal to even say that, but um, yeah, here we are.

Katelyn: 2:37

Yeah. It, it's, it's funny to look back and see how many times, like I maybe wasn't fully part of the story, but kind of witnessing your journey and like really almost like living kind of like a parallel journey. It's really cool and it's been an honor to watch.

Nik: 2:56

Hmm. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, so much of our journeys have been parallel from, I mean, before I even started the podcast, just in life of, you know, our relationships and businesses and projects and moving, and it's like, we've just always been within like six months of each other of some sort of big, you know, either like a breakup or a move or a project starting or closing. So, uh, yeah, I couldn't, couldn't have anybody else doing this episode with me. Um, but I'm, I'm excited. You know, I, I, I have, you know, first off, I really just want to say a huge thank you to everyone that has been following, you know, over the last two and a half years that I've been doing the Headliner Mindset podcast, we've built this cool community around it, and I'm so grateful for everybody that has been a part of it. For every guest first off that's been on, that has taken their time to share their thoughts and their wisdom, there's been so much knowledge. I mean, the episodes are still gonna be up, so we got like. A hundred plus hours of what somebody called free game, go out there and, and listen to everything. Um, so many just great guests, great conversations. But yeah, just really, you know, first want to thank just everyone that has, you know, been a part of it, all the fans that have supported, that have shared it with your friends that have, reshared content and everything. Uh, it's just been a really special thing. And, uh, you know, as I am, officially closing it out, I, I've thought we gotta give a little bit of context, tell a little bit of the story, and yeah, just give a, a proper farewell and a thank you to everybody.

Katelyn: 4:24

Yeah. And I think before we jump in, I just wanna say thank you as someone who has been a guest and a listener, um, to you for. Just your dedication to creating conversation around some really vulnerable topics over the last couple of years. I think that it's really, really important and I know that you've impacted my life so much and probably so many others with the conversations you've had. So thank you. And I think, uh, we can probably jump in. So take me back to the beginning, um, what originally called you to start Liner Mindset.

Nik: 5:00

Yeah. You know, I had been coaching for probably five years at that point, working with artists specifically, life coaching, mostly what I, what I consider it. But, I just really had an intuitive feeling. One day it came outta nowhere. It was just like the thought, you know, sometimes you just get a download. It was just like a shower thought, like, Hey, you should start a podcast, and how many times do we have those thoughts, right? Like they come all the time. And I've had so many ideas that have come to me, and then I haven't taken action on them as we all have. And I kind of knew. I'm like, as soon as I got that thought, I was like, if I don't take action on this immediately, it's probably not gonna happen. Rick Rubin has a really cool perspective on it. If you guys haven't read the Creative Act, it's a must read for every single artist. You should have already read it like two or three times by now. But he basically says like, if you get an idea and you don't execute that idea, that idea is going to go find its way to somebody else. You know, almost like they're floating around the universe and they'll land on somebody and it's like, all right, you got, you got a, you got a week to jump on this, otherwise I'm going somewhere else. And so for me, I was like, okay. Literally, probably the next day after I had the idea, I'm like, I gotta just put the. Equipment, like the, I need to get a mic, and you know, what else? Whatever else. I bought a mic stand and, and some lights, you know, I'm like, I'm gonna just put that shit in my Amazon cart. You know, it was like three,$400 of stuff. I was like, I'm gonna just put it in the cart. I was like, I, I gotta just do it. And then I think I maybe sat on it for a day and I was like, all right. I just, I just gotta click it. I gotta buy it. Once I buy it, I'm committed. I'm financially invested in it. So it was this. Very quick, sort of just obeying the nudge, the voice, the, the in, at the time what I would call my, you know, my intuition. And I didn't really have much of a vision for it. I wasn't like, oh, this is going to be a big marketing tool for my business, or anything like that. I was just like, oh, I know a lot of artists and like, it'd be cool to have some conversations with them. That was it. Shout out Sippy, uh, who eventually did become my client, but she was my very first, uh, very first guest. And it just kind of started from there. But I really didn't have a plan or a vision. It was just surrendering to the calling.

Katelyn: 7:11

And how did it feel to say yes before you even had a plan or a vision for this?

Nik: 7:18

It felt good. I think because, um, it's just back to that sort of, that surrendering and that obeying of, of. Actually taking action. You know, it's like there's a lot of people that dream of doing things, and there's very few people that actually take action. There's a lot of people that want to be artists, and then there's very less, you know, much fewer that say, okay, I'm gonna, I'm gonna actually get a laptop and buy Ableton and put my music out and actually go for it. You know, there's a lot of us, a lot of people that wanna start businesses and dream of it. So it felt good just to really shorten the gap of any sort of thinking. There was no like, debating, I just didn't even think like, let's just dive in and do it. So it was, it was. It was really cool. More so to see what started to happen. Once I did put out a couple episodes and it was like, oh shit. Like a lot of people started watching. A lot of people were like, Hey, this is great stuff. This kind of didn't really exist in the landscape. Like, you know, there are a handful of, EDM industry podcasters. Um, but even back then there were maybe like two other people doing it. So it was sort of this whole, like this void in the, marketplace or in the sort of content space that once I started seeing the value that was being added, it was like, oh, this is really cool. And I think what the, the biggest part of it is, you know, my kind of philosophy around art has always been like, we're just the vessel where it's like, Hey, this, this wasn't me. This wasn't my idea. This idea came from somewhere else. This idea came from the universe and I'm just surrendering. I'm obeying. I'm just letting this creative energy come through me. I'm putting in the work to, to do it, but it's like it wasn't even my idea. Which I think so many great artists, so many great songs are just like, Hey, this, I don't know where this came from. This came from somewhere else. It just came through me. So yeah, definitely it felt really cool, you know, not, not only to create it, but then to see the impact that like, oh shit, people are actually listening to this. People are actually like, saying that this is adding a lot of value to their lives. And to me that was really, really fulfilling.

Katelyn: 9:25

Yeah, and I think that, um, this is probably something we'll touch on more, but there's this idea around creating for the right reasons and creating without any expectation of it's going to be a big boom for my business. Or, just creating out of like, this isn't a strategy, this is something that I just feel really called to and feel called to share. And I think that's a big part of why it was so special and why it did really resonate with a lot of people.'cause you were doing it for the right reasons.

Nik: 9:55

Yeah, that's a great point. That's a great point. And, and I, I think there's so much truth to that. You know, if the goal is I want to be really rich and successful, and, you know, here's the thing is that will work. You know, I can like Alex Hermo the content strategy and like, especially now that there is such a business around the coaching industry, there is such a clear formulaic business around the EDM industry as well. It's like, follow the steps X, y, Z. But believe, and I think from my experience, it's kind of like. When you're playing that game, it really is a push and a grind. It's a push versus when you're following the intuitive nudge, when you're surrendering to, you know, what I would call the, the call to adventure of, of the hero's journey, it's not about you. Right. The hero is not out there to get the glory for themself. The hero is out there to like do some sort of service. They're, they're there to like, to save the world, to save the princess, to save the village. You know, it's like, it's not about them. They're willing to put their lives on the line, so there's, there's no ego in it, right? And I think for me, that, that really, I had no expectation of like, oh, this is gonna be some big, successful thing. For me, it was like, I'm just kind of doing what I'm told. And then because of that, and I think similarly to a lot of artists, it's like, I wasn't trying to make a hit. I was just doing what was fun, you know? And, and it's kinda like when you try to make a hit, you usually don't make a hit,

Katelyn: 11:22

you never make

Nik: 11:23

Yeah,

Katelyn: 11:23

when you're trying to make a hit unless you have a lot of really good people in the room. I have

Nik: 11:28

yeah, yeah, yeah. So, yeah, that's, that's, it's, it's a great point. Like it definitely was. There was no, um, you know, it, it's funny, it almost sounds like egotistical to say this, but like there really wasn't any ego involved in it. Like, it was just that act of like, yeah, I'm just kind of Yeah. Surrendering to the calling.

Katelyn: 11:47

How do you think that that affected the way that you showed up? I mean, you obviously put in so much work and discipline to grow this to what you did, and I think, at least from my experience, there's a clear difference when you are doing something from ego or expectation versus doing something for the fun of it.

Nik: 12:06

Yeah. Yeah. And, and I can notice the difference of. When I was doing it from an egoless place or from a place of service, I should say.'cause I remember there was like, there was a one episode where like, I don't know, something happened with like the, the tech or the editing. And it was like the night before.'cause I would usually put these out on midnight, on Sunday to, to be available Monday morning. And I had done like, I don't know, 40 in a row. I hadn't missed a week. And then something happened where it was like the night before and it was all fucked up. And I was like, I have to go like re-edit this whole thing by hand, which is, you know, like two or three hours or something of work. Yeah. But I was like, I'm not gonna fucking miss this deadline because there's people out there that are depending on me. I'm like, I'm getting this out there for them. You know? And so like I was sacrificing myself in that way and it really was coming from a place of service. Um, but I also, you know, at the same time. The podcast that become, you know, successful. It did basically, it doubled my business, over my first year, what, you know, a year ago, it's like, my business literally doubled because I was getting a lot of exposure. People are, you know, getting used to kind of, you know, hearing me, having these conversations coming to me, wanting to get coaching and wanting to work with me. So then at some point it also did become like, oh, this is a marketing tool. This can help my business. And so there definitely were times where it was like, all right, I'm gonna. Use this as a marketing tool because I wanna get clients. And, and again, that is, it's not necessarily one or the other, right? It's like, I talk a lot about like, just duality. Like there is that balance of, of it being art and being business. Like it is a business. This is how I survive and I pay my rent is I run a coaching business. You know? So, I think similarly to a lot of artists where you start off, it's like, I'm just making me making music for fun. Like, this is just totally fun. I don't care about it being successful or famous or, or it's, it's not paying the bills yet. So there's this, almost this place of innocence that it comes from. Uh, it's more about the art, it's more about the exploration. And then at some point it does become the business. And then at some point you go full-time, you start touring, you're like, oh, like I'm, I'm a full-time artist now. And like. I have to keep getting booked to pay the bills. Right? And so it's almost impossible to not have that part of you come to life, right? And this is the place that I see a lot of artists struggle with, where it's like, oh shit, okay. I, I kind of have to keep putting out music now, or like, I have to keep putting out episodes because this is the sales funnel and this is how I'm, surviving. So it's a really interesting dance to balance. It's like we do all still have an ego, like we all do also still have our financial needs or, or just even our, our earthly goals, you know, our sort of worldly desires and goals and there's nothing wrong with that. It's just an interesting, you know, kind of dance and balance. And I certainly have noticed myself. Maybe be more on the side of service, even with coaching where I'm just like, I'm, I'm purely kind of in my zone. This is like really coming from a place of service. And then I've also had, the other side of it where I'm like, yo, I'm, I'm trying to hit like a financial month right now, and I want to go like, get some fucking clients. And I'm, and I'm playing the content game and strategy and there's nothing wrong with either of it, but it's kind of these two different sides of the spectrum that have a different feeling around them.

Katelyn: 15:26

Yeah, and I think you kind of have to get comfortable with both in a sense.

Nik: 15:30

definitely, definitely In order, in order to, be a successful entrepreneur or, you know, somebody that is like running a business, um, as an artist, which you are like, yeah, you gotta make art and you gotta run a business. Right? Um, I know so many coaches, it's like we're usually coaching because we care about people and we love coaching and we gotta pay our bills and we gotta run a business. So it's, it's kind of the same and it's just, yeah, it's just an interesting dance and balance to find.

Katelyn: 15:56

for sure. So on the outside it was growing, but how were you feeling internally as things are growing and shifting and evolving?

Nik: 16:05

Over time, you know, it, it's, uh, I mean, I've, technically I've been coaching for eight years, six years, six and a half years now. I'd been my full time career in business, in the past two and a half years, you know, really since. Running, you know, and that, that alone has just been a journey. You know, there's peaks and valleys of like, I love this shit. And like, I'm like, totally born for this and I love it. And then there's other times where you're just like, oh my God, I hate fucking, I, I hate, I hate, yeah. I'm like burnt out and I hate, you know, working by myself. Just the self-employed journey is, at least my experience of it has definitely been a rollercoaster. But specifically in terms of the podcast, you know, the last two and a half years, there was this certainly, you know, season of just all like explosive growth, a lot of passion, a lot of alignment. The other sort of intuitive calling that came through at one point was starting my group coaching program, which pretty much everybody were from Headliner Mindset listeners, of, of some kind. And built a, 60 person community. And that was so cool. And that again, it was the same thing where it was just the one day, it was just like the whisper, the nudge, hey. You should start this, start a program. And that was so cool. Totally. Again, egoless, just like, I'm just following the thing. I'm gonna put the work in to build it. Shout out to everybody from the Headliner Mindset community because y'all, I mean, we did weekly calls for like two years, meeting every single week and, you know, went really deep, not only to building artist brands and all of that, but like, I mean, we, we had such open, deep, loving, vulnerable conversation and connection and, and that turned into something really beautiful and special. So, I'd say in the last probably six months though, it just lost some of the. Not necessarily just that, that community, but just me. I started changing, I started evolving, I started growing. I'm not in the same place I was two years ago, three years ago, five years ago. And so I think as I've been growing, as I've been, just growing as a person, I just started feeling a bit of misalignment of like, I don't have the same fire about this anymore. I don't, I don't feel super lit up. And that's when it kind of became a little bit of the like, feeling of monotony, you know, like I don't feel that, super strong spark and, and excitement anymore. And, and I think that, again, that's so normal and natural. Like you've been making the same music for two years, like you're probably gonna bored of just making the same song for two years. I, I was kind of putting out the same episode, you know, for, for a while. Just like, all right, this just, I just not really pumped about this anymore. So it, it started to have this feeling very, very slowly. You know, it was a very, very slow process. It's not like it was black and white, you know, like light switch that went off of it. I just hate this. Now. That's not the case at all. But like, something started shifting really inside of me where I'm just like, okay. What, what is exciting right now? What is exciting at, at this stage in life versus even just a couple years ago?

Katelyn: 19:06

Well, can you answer that question for us? Like

Nik: 19:09

Hmm.

Katelyn: 19:09

is feeling exciting to you and what feels aligned to you?

Nik: 19:14

yeah. Uh, you know, it's, it's really interesting because a few big things happened this year. I started really going deep into my spirituality, my spiritual path, my faith. I started going to church. Like I've always, not always, but like, I've kind of, you know, started believing in God and my like, kind of early twenties from a very new age universe. What I, you know, y'all love my, the WOOWOO stuff. I love to talk about the universe, and I've had no problem calling that God also. Um, but the last two years, I, I started going to church. I started reading the Bible. I started like really. Discovering that, I guess, path of faith. And so honestly, like that was the, had been the most exciting thing, I think.'cause it's new. It's like I've done the EDM industry for 15 years. I've been a part of the EDM industry, so it's like let's go back to 2010 when that shit was new and fun and exciting. Oh my God, it was awesome. 15 years later. You know, I don't have the same excitement about it, but I don't know, discovering this new path of faith. I'm like, honestly it sounds incredibly nerdy, but there'd be nights where it's like Friday night I'm like, I wanna sit down and like read this, book, you know, this like spiritual book and drink my tea at night. You know? And so there was some big shifts that started happening. One of them was, I got baptized, uh, in May and talk about the intuitive nudge. I wasn't really planning on that. Like, I was kind of dabbling in, you know, I'm going to church and kind of just curious, you know, also still a little cautious, like, what's this whole church thing about? But then, you know, I, I just really was. Having my own, my own practice, my own like alone time. I'd go just like, walk in the woods and listen to some worship music and just kind of have, you know, create space and stillness to have some of the sort of intuitive downloads, you know? And, and I've always had, I, and I say always,'cause my connection to my intuition, what I always called my intuition has been very strong. You know, now I call that my, that's my connection to God. I'm like, that's God talking to me. You know, what, what is that voice? What is that voice in the back of my head that's like, yo, start a podcast. Yo start a group, yo, like, quit your financial advising job right outta college and fucking move to LA with a thousand dollars. Like, just like trust that voice. And I've always surrendered to it. I've always obeyed it and it's taken me on this fucking incredible journey. And so, you know, I'm walking in the woods one day and God tells me, he's like, yo, like get baptized. They were doing it like the next week and he was like, this is your time. Jump in. I was just like. Alright, whatever you say, bro. Like, I'll, okay. Kind of not knowing what that actually was gonna mean for me, but it felt like the sort of line in the sand where it was like, hey, like this is the center of your life now. And that's really just started to become more and more true. So that was something that was really big. I just started really, really centering. Like, what if I put God first in my life and what that really means to me is like, what if I put listening to that voice first? Not what do I want? What does Nick want? What does Nick's ego want? But what does that voice want? You all can call it whatever you want. I just hope you develop a relationship with it.'cause it's like there's this constant. Voice, this stream of consciousness, this North Star thing that's there, and it's so fucking cool when you can start listening to it. And so what I realized was that sort of line in the sand was like, yo, I'm gonna put listening to that voice first. That's that's gonna come first. then what also happened was I turned 40 in August and there was something about crossing that line, another sort of crossing the threshold where I, I just, I'm looking at what do I want the next, 10 years of my life to look like. And, um, you know, I had a, a, a, a client here in town a little while back playing in front of like 10,000 people in, in Austin and went to the show of course, which should have been the sort of highlight of my career. Like, yo, I'm, I'm life coaching. People that are playing in front of 10,000 people, like this is my fucking dream that I had, you know, five years ago where, yeah, you know, this is what I want to be doing and I'm doing it. But like, being there, I was just like, man, it's not really lighting me up, you know, I was just like, do I want to be going to raves in my forties? It's kind of what I was looking at. You know, I've, I've got a girlfriend now that, live with, we want to, you know, we wanna get married, we wanna start a family. So I'm really looking at like, what's the next, my next 10 years. And, um, I didn't really know what the answer to that was, but what I did know and what was just, the only sign I was getting was that this isn't it, and this was the hard and scary thing, is I didn't know what it was like the universe, God, that voice would not tell me. I'm like, okay, well what the fuck do you want me to do? Like, tell me I will obey, I will surrender. I've done it so many times. I've done so many leaps of faith. And so I was kind of like. It was starting to feel like, yo, this just, this just, isn't it? This is feeling like it's out of alignment. It's not, it's not a fuck yes anymore. And I believe in that sort of philosophy, if it's not a fuck yes, it's a no. And so I was kind of just sitting with that and circling that and it was a very uncomfortable feeling of just like, it feeling just more out of alignment. And I'm like, well. But like, what's, what's the thing? Give me the, gimme me the next step. And, um, it wasn't until I decided, I was like, you know what, the, the Headliner Mindset Coaching group, it was like, we've been doing these calls for two years. I wasn't really taking on new cohorts. And I realize it's just time to, time to close it out, just energetically feels like, you know, this, every chapter has an end to it. I'm like, all right, I'm gonna, I'm gonna close out the group. And then as soon as I sent the email, I was like, Ooh, wait a minute. I'm like, I think I gotta just, I'm gonna just close out my business entirely. Like I'm not gonna advertise to take on new clients. Like, it just, you know, it was, it wasn't it, the only thing that was clear was that it was time to just shut it down. And that's kind of terrifying because that's my fucking job. Like, that's my career. That's like, that is literally, like, I don't have any, any other job. This is not a, this is not a part-time hustle. Like this has been my, my whole full-time thing. But the, the, the calling at that time was clear. And it was just saying, shut it down. And I was like, oh shit. And I'm like, alright. Like I will just trust that I'll surrender to that. And so I kind of took this leap of faith just to be like, all right, I'm gonna just completely just shut it down and be done. I have no idea what's next. I don't know what's coming, but I believe in you. I have a relationship with you. I can hear you. Like, you're being very fucking clear right now. And I know that my only job is to trust, to have faith and to surrender. And so I did and I still have a couple clients I'm working with, that are still kinda like on the roster, but it's like I, I've been like in the process of closing out my LLC obviously in the process of closing out the podcast. Um, but within two weeks of making that decision, which is the crazy thing. I had this incredible opportunity pop up. My thought at that time was like, looking at the next 10 years, what do I want to do? I'm like, I, I, I think I'm gonna to go just get like a regular job. I've always worked in the music industry. It's so wild to think that, like, I'm, I'm like, I wanna just, you know, I live here in Austin. Tech sales is really huge. I was like, I'm gonna just get a tech sales job and just like, make a bunch of money and I don't know, be a part of a corporation. I guess. Like, like that was my kind of general thought and idea. So I actually did start interviewing for some jobs here in Austin, but then an old friend that I had reconnected with, he was like, dude, like, you know, my brother runs a big company out here in Colorado, like a big tech company. And I was like, oh yeah, like, I kind of forgot about that. And he's like, you should talk to him. Like they might be looking for somebody. And literally within three conversations, they're like, yeah, bro. You're a perfect fit. We've got the perfect opportunity for you. You're exactly what we need right now. We're gonna give you an offer that's literally twice as much as anything that you were looking for. Over here in Austin, we're gonna pay your relocation fee. Like, the alignment and, how easy all of it happened. And, and also my girlfriend has always wanted to move to Colorado. She's been dreaming of it. She's lived here for 10 years in Austin. And so it was just like boom, boom, boom. Alignment, alignment, alignment. And it was this huge lesson once again of just like, yo, like trust me, trust. Feeling trust, that intuitive nudge, even if it's scary, even if it's like something big like letting go. I feel like in that moment it was like I was getting tested. Are you going to trust me? Are you gonna trust me that I got you, that you're supported, that I got something so much fucking bigger for you than what you are trying to do on your own. And so that was it. It was an incredibly, incredibly powerful experience and super exciting. We just got back from Colorado this weekend, apartment hunting, just f like found the perfect place. Like all of it's just been all unfolding very organically so far and, and having a lot of really big, I don't know, life lessons in the process.

Katelyn: 27:52

Well first, congrats second. There's a lot to unpack there.

Nik: 27:56

Oh my God. Well, well, okay, one more, thing before we jump in. I, I do wanna also share, I know like a part of it was, you know, when we did our last episode with you. With Freddie Lane closing out your project. I mean, that was, I don't know, less than six months ago or somewhere around.

Katelyn: 28:12

I think like seven, eight months ago,

Nik: 28:14

Okay. So it's like somewhere in that same timeframe I think I saw you be like, Hey, like I don't really love my project anymore. I'm gonna just close it. And we had a whole, you know, episode about that you guys can go and listen to the, the last Freddie Lane episode. But, but Caitlin also, she was just like, yeah, this doesn't really feel aligned anymore. and, And I just, what I love about you is how quickly you trust yourself and you're just like, yeah, okay, this isn't it. I'm done. I'm gonna move to fucking, I think I'm gonna move to, uh, France. Lemme go try that out for a little bit. Like, okay, cool. You're at France. Uh, not really loving France. I'm gonna fucking go over

Katelyn: 28:44

I'm like. sitting here listening to you and I'm cracking up because it's like I feel like I'm watching myself.

Nik: 28:51

Yeah. But it's just like, like seeing you just be like, oh, I don't have to stay in this thing that I'm, I'm not in alignment with anymore. I trust myself that there's something else out there. I'm gonna have the courage to take the leap of faith and go see. I also, like, I might move to Colorado and get out there and be like, you know what? I fucking hate it. I

Katelyn: 29:07

might hate

Nik: 29:07

I don't like this job. You know, like we,

Katelyn: 29:09

in Paris. I

Nik: 29:10

we might hate it. And, and we'll never know until we go out there and we try. Uh, and if we do, that's why, that's why I told my girlfriend, I'm like, babe, I know this is a big decision to pick up your whole life, but like, if we hate it, like we'll just go somewhere else. It's all good. It's not the end of the world. We're not stuck anywhere, you know? So I wanna give you some credit for being a part of my story.'cause I realized, I'm like, damn. I think having that conversation clicked something in the back of my mind where I'm like, oh shit. Like, I think it's time for you to, to close up shop and, and go onto the next adventure as well.

Katelyn: 29:40

These conversations are important, and I think that this is something I've really been thinking about a lot is what success really looks like when you go after something, whether it's a podcast, whether it's a music project, and to me, Freddie Lane was so successful because it served its purpose. It was never meant to be like me headlining EDC, like it was meant to be this chapter of my life that like really, really not only closed out like a dream that I probably would've always regret chasing had I not tried, but also closed out this chapter of like, I don't know, like needing to be seen and needing to perform for other people. In a sense, you know, I think it brought me like way closer to myself, and it did. It did. Take like a lot of trust in myself to be like, oh, I just left the career that I spent 10 plus years building to chase this dream that didn't work out, but that's okay'cause I'm gonna trust myself again. And I think something that I like really while listening to you and your journey, um, so much of what you were saying about your faith really just like felt. So it resonated so much with me because that is how I've felt about learning to trust myself and learning to trust my intuitive voice. It is, it's not always about like having the path laid out for you. And something that I recently saw or read somewhere on a, on a reel was that like, if you have the path laid out for you, you're probably on somebody else's path. Because your path should be like the path that, like you have no idea where the fuck you're going because it's that unique to you and it's never been done before. And I think there's something so important about recognizing that. Like we can't fully step into the new until we're ready to let go of, of what we're walking away from, you know? And so there was this just, I had this knowing of like, yeah, music was something that I wanted to pursue my entire life and it served its purpose and was so successful in the ways it needed to be successful. But as soon as I knew that it wasn't it, I knew I had to, had to shift and pivot. And I think the most successful people in the world are the people that are not afraid to pivot no matter how much time or money or effort they've put into something. Knowing when it's time to pivot and not continuing to beat a dead horse and not continuing to like. Feel claustrophobic inside of a, of a like cage. You know, like I felt like, oh, I'm ready to expand outside of this, and you really just have to open the door.

Nik: 32:34

Yeah, it's like there. There is this. To throw it all the way back to the art of flow,

Katelyn: 32:42

where it all began,

Nik: 32:43

where it all began when I was a teacher at Icon Collective Music Production School many years ago, and we had this class called The Art of Flow and.

Katelyn: 32:52

which I was a student

Nik: 32:53

Which you were a student of? Yeah. That I got, I got invited to teach. And so teaching that class completely changed my life. But the literally, the very first lesson is about the Dao. The dao de ching was this like ancient Chinese philosophy. And the dao basically means the way, as in there is this like natural flow of life that like, it just naturally wants to move in a certain direction. And it's the same thing for us, like when we can tap into our flow where it's just like things are easy and doors open and all of it just like works and it flows. It's when we get out of our own way. Right? Um, but we are also stubborn humans that are like, no, I want to do things my way. I want it to look like this. And so I am going to grind. And, and don't get me wrong, there's a time to like work hard and hustle and build a hundred percent,

Katelyn: 33:45

Oh, for sure. That's a part of

Nik: 33:46

At, yeah, it's a part of it, right? It is that, that duality of it. But especially like, I, I really like this concept that like, if you're being called to be an artist, a lot of people are like, well, that means that I'm going to be the biggest artist in the world. I'm gonna tour the world. I'm gonna headline EDC, and it's like, I'm gonna do this for the rest of my life. Like, that's the vision. It's like, well. What if it's just, this is a chapter in your journey, right? And to follow, like where is the flow? Where is the inspiration, being unattached? Like the, the concept of non-attachment is another big concept. Kind of like a, like a Buddhist philosophy of just like non-attachment, right? A lot of times we get so attached that it needs to look this way, it needs to work out, it needs to be like this. And that causes a lot of tension and frustration as opposed to like, well, let me follow the flow. Like what is the kind of music that comes out of me most effortlessly? You know, what are the opportunities that are open? And when I'm unattached to things, needing to look a certain way, that also might mean that like, yo, this is a chapter of my story that actually does have an end. And at some point maybe there's a different lane of inspiration that wants to pull me in a different direction. And I do see a lot of a, a lot of artists that do this, that, that, that they do eventually pivot where it's like, oh, cool. I'm onto the next thing now. And, and

Katelyn: 35:02

And you never would've found the

Nik: 35:04

you never would've found it. Yeah, yeah. If you didn't trust that in the first place. But there's also a lot of artists and, and it's, this is a delicate conversation'cause I don't wanna like, influence anybody to throw in the towel. Right. Just because things are hard. You might be, you, yeah. You might be three inches from gold right now. Like, you might be like a fucking moment away from your breakthrough. Right. But at the same time, like, I have seen a lot of artists that are like grinding and stressed out and bashing their fucking head against the wall and they've been doing it for 10 years and it's not working. And it's like, yo, it, it might be that this is not where your alignment is. It might be this is not where your flow is. Another layer of it is it's like, I mean, I've had such a weird wild history of like. You know, working in the music industry at record labels, being a manager, being a teacher, being a coach, it's like a weird hodgepodge of fucking skill sets. But I also know and trust, like I'm making a total pivot into like selling fucking computers to the government now. Like, I'm like in like in a completely different world, but I also know that who I've become in that process has actually made me literally the perfect person for this job. Every skillset, everything that I, that I've developed. And so, back to this element of just like trusting is like all of it has set you up perfectly. Like you building your whole project, having the experience of Freddie Lane, that's also set you up perfectly for whatever the thing is that's gonna be next, you know?

Katelyn: 36:22

Well, and I think that, at least for me personally, when I really stop and, and have that stillness and listen to myself, a lot of that picture of like what I thought Freddie Lane was going to look like when it was like a success was like what other people defined as success and not necessarily what I defined as success. And I think that like we spend so much time listening to other people and what society says success means. And I think so much about real success is figuring out like what that means for you.

Nik: 36:59

Mm-hmm. Totally

Katelyn: 37:01

And, and so for me, my journey, like so much of it wasn't even about. The festivals I played or the audience or whatever. For me it was always a vehicle to connect and always a vehicle to like make a difference in people's lives. And I realized that I was very quickly, hitting a ceiling with that in music and that there was so much more opportunity for me to help people outside of

Nik: 37:31

Hmm. Yeah. Yeah. And there's, I, I love this quote from Tony Robbins that says, success without fulfillment is the ultimate failure. It's one thing to be successful, right? Like, I can set a goal, big target, I can be successful, but what if I'm not fulfilled? If I'm not happy? Like, what's the fucking point? That's a huge failure. There's, we see a lot of, you know, success, right? That is like a lot of people that have success that are not actually fulfilled. And I had a good conversation last night with my girlfriend where we were just like, what, what do we want the vision to be of this next chapter? And it's funny because a lot of my journey in everything I've done so far, it has been this intuitive calling. And I, in the back of my mind, like I kind of had this like. This vision and this calling of like, I'm gonna be the number one life coach for artists. Like, I wanna work with a-list artists. I always say like, I'm gonna coach TTO someday, you know, I'm gonna coach the biggest artist in the world. And it's like, it's this very cool vision. And it's like, maybe there, you know, maybe it was, I don't know, spiritually called or whatever. But also I was like, is that just coming from my ego that like, I want to say I'm, I'm coaching fucking Justin Bieber, or TTO or Jelly Roll, you know, like whoever it's like, if I'm real about it, it's probably coming from my ego. Is that actually my calling? Right. Because I, I actually don't really feel pumped and excited about like, trying to do that, you

Katelyn: 38:52

well when you were talking about like just obviously a lot of your audience here are artists, um. When you were talking about like, oh, I'm not saying go quit. I think that something that we should touch on is understanding like, what is burnout versus what is like your actual intuitive calling that this is not aligned. Because something that like I had to really sit with when I was deciding to walk away was like, okay, is this really hard? Or if, if, I woke up tomorrow and all my dreams came true and I was headlining every single festival in the world and like I was the next John Summit, would I be happy? Would I be fulfilled? And when I sat with that, I realized, no, like that is not gonna change how I feel right now. And that was my like real green flag to like, you might not know what's next. But walk away because like you said, if it's not a fuck yes, it's a no. And I think that that really gives you the picture of, like, it, I, I think when you're really first starting out, you don't understand like what the day-to-day looks like of somebody that is, Touring. Like, you know, like what's the day-to-day look like of John Summit? and Is that like really the life that you want? And as I started getting to know myself better and started evolving and growing, I realized that, um, I didn't wanna be in those rooms and I didn't wanna be on those stages. And that's not what success really looked like to me.

Nik: 40:22

Yeah, I, I totally feel that because when I imagine you saw me kind of wrestle with like, oh, I'm gonna move back to la you know,'cause I've, I've been in Austin the last four years and there was this part of me where I'm like, well, if, if I'm gonna work with the biggest artists in the world, the way I'm gonna have access to them it's gonna be through their managers. It's gonna be through connections. Like, I'm probably not gonna be able to sit here in my little podcast studio in Austin and like, make those connections. And, and so there was this pull of like, yo, like. If you're going to do that, you really gotta move back to la. Like, you gotta put yourself in the room. You gotta get in the right places. Not to say it would be impossible to do it without it, but most likely, like, I really gotta be there. And when I think about like, do I wanna move back to la be in the fucking mix. I did that for 13 years. Like, am I at a stage in my life that I want to do that? Is that where I'm being called? And, you know, sitting down with my girlfriend last night on the, flight back home, we're like, what's our vision for the next chapter? I'm like, I want have my nine to five and I want to buy a Jeep. I want to get a mountain bike and I want go snowboarding on the weekends. I'm like, I want to be outdoors. I wanna go camping. You know, I'm like, that's, that's what I want to do. What would fulfill me? What would make me feel really good? I'm like, I don't care about, I dunno, chasing this kind of big Hollywood dream anymore. It's just not, that does not light me up. You know, like building a fucking campfire with some homies, on a little, you know, four by four Jeep Weekend. I'm like. To me sounds so fun and so exciting, and so,

Katelyn: 41:50

I think there's also like seasons.

Nik: 41:51

Mm-hmm.

Katelyn: 41:52

And I think that we need to like be okay with the fact that there's seasons in our life and some are gonna be like chasing our dreams relentlessly. And some are gonna be like just sitting there and being present and like really enjoying our lives, enjoying what we've built. And it sounds like you're kind of like ready to build the foundation for the next chapter of your life. And that's where I think a lot of this is coming from. I also think too, and forgive me if I'm wrong, we will see like a couple years down the road where you end up. But I sometimes think that if you have like a creative career, but you're feeling the call to like something else creative, you're almost just like giving all your creative energy to that career and you're not being able to like give it to that thing that's like kind of in the background, like growing. I almost feel like this new chapter of your faith and trusting in yourself and all these things that you've been really spiritually connecting with, I think that you going into a career field where like you don't have to give any creative like energy is going to allow that to flourish so much more on the sidelines and allow you to figure out like what really is next for you. And maybe that will be like exploring that down the line and maybe it won't. But I do think that like you are just so meant to inspire others and impact others. And I think that like this next chapter is really gonna allow you to like put down a solid foundation. And I think there's more impact from you to come, but that's just my personal opinion.

Nik: 43:36

I know it's, it's, it's definitely there. You know, we've talked about this before. It's like I was a coach and I was coaching way before I ever put the label of coach on myself. Right. Um, it's funny. It's who I

Katelyn: 43:51

me up and you're like, okay, what's going on? Okay, let's talk through this.

Nik: 43:54

yeah, yeah. No, a hundred percent. And it's, it, it's, it's gonna be nice to have it not be the profession. Um, you know, I think there's also a space for me, like kind of not working with artists also in a weird way. I'm like, I am like a shadow artist too. You, you see me in the corner playing my guitar sometimes. Bella Renee brought me out to play guitar, you know, with her. And it's almost like kind of having a, you know, taking a little step, almost like out of the industry I think will allow for me to, you know, maybe it is making my own music. But yeah, there, there certainly is. Um, I. I don't know what it is yet. I don't know. I'm gonna wait for God to show me what it is. Where am I being called? How does he want to use me? How does he want me to use my gifts? And right now, like, I also can't deny that, like, you know, in terms of me kind of finding my faith and that becoming such a big part of my life, it's also hard for me not to talk about it. You know, in the, in the last episode I just had my, my homie rave Jesus on, uh, we, we, we just put on. And so I got to, you know, come out, kind of come out of the closet and talk about my, my faith for the first time and

Katelyn: 45:00

closet.

Nik: 45:01

isn't that good? but It really felt like that, you know, it really like, it, it definitely did. But it's, it's something that's such a big part of my life that I think if I'm coaching somebody, it almost feels. Unfair not to like, share like, Hey, this thing has been working for me really well, you know, and I'm like, I can kind of guide you in all these other directions, but I'm feeling more called like, come to church with me. Like, come try this on. Because this has been transforming my, my heart and my soul and my life and, and in so many ways. So it's an interesting thing that I've been. Exploring also of like, is this just a little part of my life that I want to kind of keep just to myself, or is there something here for me to be more open about that? Like, I already have been, you know, I have people kind of coming to me and asking questions and stuff and that's been really fun. I was also sharing with you before we started in a such a funny synchronistic way about how the new apartment that we're probably going to move into has a podcast studio. So I've, you know, I've had that in the back of my mind, like maybe there's a new podcast, maybe there's a next podcast. Maybe it's a spiritual podcast where I, you know, interviewed people from different religions and spiritualities. Like, to me, that's the shit that's kind of more interesting and exciting than, than talking about, the music business. Or maybe it's some men's work. I've also been like a men's coach at certain times, so there might be other things that I, I get excited to talk about. Maybe there's a podcast, maybe there's another coaching program at some point. Um, but who knows, like right now, this season is definitely just really closing loops is really where I'm at. Like, let's just, let's shut things down.

Katelyn: 46:33

The year of the snake is coming to an end.

Nik: 46:37

shed shed this layer, uh, and just create some space just for some groundedness. Like, let me get on a nice little routine. Let me try this little nine to five thing out. You know, let me see what it's like to not be like 24 7, you know, hustling on my own business and whatever. And, and we'll see, you know, it could come to me in two weeks. I could get the download, I could get a fucking lightning bolt of clarity, or it could be two years, I don't know. But, um, yeah, just being open, trusting that process and, and, and I, I, I love you speaking life into that. Like, I think there will be another, I, I can't see myself just only, you know, doing my, nine to five and not also having some sort of Yeah. Creative project. Right. And creativity comes in all forms, whether it's a business,

Katelyn: 47:18

yeah, I think it'll, it'll bring it out of you, you know, like your next step is this and that step is gonna bring you to the next step and the next step. And

Nik: 47:27

totally. And, and just having some space and some clarity. Sometimes, you know, I think also for artists, you know, sometimes you gotta, you gotta take a step back and be like, Hey, like this, maybe I'm, I'm not loving it. It's not really working. It's not popping. Like, dude, take a step back, take a month off. Right? Like, you don't have to grind and hustle. Like, especially for anyone out there where it's like, if you haven't already really popped off and you, you're like, if you're not a full-time artist, you're not like. Making your money off of touring. You don't have this pressure to be like, I have to post every day and stay relevant. Like, sorry to be so bold, but you're not relevant yet. I know you're trying to become, but if you're also kind of spinning your wheels and it's not working, take some time off. Take a step back, get really in tune with yourself. Listen to your own voice. Like turn within or at least just like kind of turn things off and see what comes to you, because there might be like a million dollar idea. There could be just this, this huge idea that's trying to make its way through to you. It could be an idea for a new direction in your music, it could be an idea for the direction of your brand, but if you're so busy grinding and hustling and I gotta make content every day, and it's like, you're never gonna hear that. And so that I, I think it's good for all of us to maybe sometimes take a season to take a step back. And if you're not yet like full-time touring, you actually have that option. It's a lot harder when you're like, yo, I got, I like, I got a manager and I got a team and I got an agent and we got shows. It's like, yo, you, you gotta keep putting out music. You gotta kind of stay relevant in a way, which is a good also reason to like, yo, be smart with your money that you are making, like save up a nest egg so that you have the opportunity to take a step back if you want to. But, a lot of people aren't in that position yet, so.

Katelyn: 49:09

for sure. Well, I think that I was kind of in the in between almost like where. I wouldn't say I was irrelevant, but I also wasn't like touring the world. I was kind of in this middle state of like, I had a team behind me. I had a record label, I had promises and things that I had to show up for. And I was recognizing that like when I picked up my phone and I wanted to create a video, I didn't wanna create it about music. I didn't want to

Nik: 49:39

yeah,

Katelyn: 49:40

be pumping up my next song. Like, to me it didn't feel natural. And I think that that was the first sign of like, I wanna create, but it's not this. And I think that's important to like listen to that because yes, you have to grind. But I think that there's such a difference when you tap into something that like you're so passionate about that it doesn't feel like a grind. Like when they say, like, the goal is to like, what is the quote like of, um, like figure out something. It doesn't feel like your job. I can't like think of the actual quote right now, but the goal is to like really get so aligned with yourself and like understand yourself on such a deep level that it's easy. Like create something that is easy for you to like show up and create every single day because you're that passionate about it. You know, like you love it that much. And also just like remember that it's okay to change your mind. Like it is okay to grow and evolve and like move in different directions and like, maybe the season of your life was music or a podcast or whatever it is. But people change and people evolve and like we go through all these stages of our lives to prepare us for the next. And, it's not a failure to walk away from something. A lot of the times it's a huge success because it just brings you to the next thing.

Nik: 51:00

Well, it, it's funny because we were both in a similar situation where. Yeah, it's not like things weren't working for either of us, right? Like you were looking at like, hey, like you got a, a team, you got a publishing deal. Like you were, playing every single insomniac festival. Like you were in it releasing on great labels. But there's a great Stephen Covey quote that says something along the lines of like, you don't wanna climb the ladder of success and then realize that the ladder was leaning against the wrong wall. Right? And so like, just looking at like, hey. This is about to pop off. Like, do I want to be at the top of this ladder? And having the honesty and the, the self-awareness to recognize, like, no, similar for me, I'm like, my business was doing great. Like I was on my way to like multiple six figures. You know, like I'm surrounded by people that know how to make businesses pop. If I wanted to make a couple little adjustments, like I could be, you know, really crushing it. And it, it, I was doing really well, but I was like, do I wanna do this for the next 10 years? Right? Like, if I'm building something, I should be building with that sort of future. And I was like, yeah, I don't think I want to climb this ladder all the way, so

Katelyn: 52:08

You have to try it on

Nik: 52:08

of. Yeah, and it's like, it might feel like, you know what, let me actually like climb off. Let me take a few steps back. I'm gonna like climb off this ladder. But at least now I'm back on the ground and I can decide, well, what building do I want climb? Do I even want to even be climbing buildings? You know, maybe I just wanna walk along the street for a while and just, you know, it's like we don't always have to be, you know, always, climbing the ladder of success even.

Katelyn: 52:31

for sure. Well, every time that I've pivoted has kind of been that moment of like me recognizing like, okay, if I, I have like a crossroads right now. I can either go full force at this and it is going to blow the fuck up, or I can walk away and I can decide this isn't for me. And when I was with my company and I decided, okay, this isn't for me. Like I was sitting at my desk. I was making like really, really great money. You know, like another couple years I probably would've been like making half a mill close to a million dollars a year. And I sat there and I was like, in 10 years, if I'm still sitting behind this desk doing this same thing, am I gonna be happy? And I was like, no. And I knew that I was like so close to like my success becoming the success that I always wanted and realized it wasn't actually what I still wanted. And then at the same thing happened with Freddy, like I decided to go down that route. And I got to this place where I'm like, okay, I have this amazing record deal, I have this amazing team, I have my management, I have all these things. I was getting really close to signing with an agency. And I got to this point, I was like, okay, once I sign with this agency, once I'm touring, I can't turn back. You know? Well, I can obviously can, but, but it was kind of that like, am I gonna double down?

Nik: 53:59

yeah,

Katelyn: 54:00

I realized, no, like this isn't what I want either. And, and I think there's, there's something powerful about being able to walk away and recognize that something isn't meant for you And, letting that be enough

Nik: 54:15

yeah. And where I'm at is it's like less about asking what do I want and more asking, what does God want? What does the universe want For me, it's like, I'm just the vessel, yeah, there's a lot of things that I want, But to really be kind of tapped into that voice and really be listening to that, tapped into the flow, tapped into the universe, whatever. It's like, where do you want me to go? Right? And to actually have the discipline, the patience, the stillness, to try to hear that voice, to start creating space in your life to hear that voice. And then what's really scary though, is like once you hear it, have the courage to trust it. Where it's like, damn, like that's not really what I want. But to trust, like, Hey, there's something really fucking cool over here. Right? Like, where do you want me to go?'cause a lot of times, yeah, we really are focused on like, well, yeah, what do I want? This is my idea, my vision, my, my,

Katelyn: 55:13

the universe, it's like, the idea is that the universe knows your highest, Self, you know, and knows like what, like you have a dream, but like the universe's version of it is like, so above and beyond what you could even think of. And so for me, that was kind of like getting to this place of like, okay, I don't know what's next, but I'm just gonna surrender to it and I'm just gonna like, allow enough space that we can co-create, you know? And so it's, it's listening to yourself, but also. Like trusting those intuitive hits and trusting that like maybe something even greater than you could ever imagine is going to unfold

Nik: 55:51

Yeah. What if your vision of being a full-time touring artist and headlining EDC, what if that's actually 1% of what's possible? You know, what, what you think is like a hundred percent top of the ladder, I made it. What if it's like, no, brother, like that's actually so much smaller.

Katelyn: 56:05

yeah, I started feeling that. I felt like this is like, while this might feel like a big, big, big, big top like ceiling goal for this container, I felt like I'm gonna explode out of this container. You know? Like it just felt like there's something more for me and I needed to, to follow that. And I think that's kind of where you're at too.

Nik: 56:29

Totally. You know, and, and, uh, just to keep dropping quotes on you guys, I think it's like a Jim Rohn quote where it's, the purpose of our goals is not necessarily, you know, the achievement of them or the destination, but who we become in the process. Who are you becoming in the process during the journey? It's like, this calling is on your heart to pursue this thing to, you know, chase this thing, build this thing or whatever. And it's like, yeah, it's not actually about the result, but it's about you and who you become in the process. It's about building the character. It's about, in my case at least, like kind of building, you know, the obedience and the surrender of, of following that. Am I going to be, a, a person that, practices faith that has courage. Um, you know, there's gonna be so many lessons that we learn along the way of like our hero's journey. But you gotta answer the calling in, in the first place, you know? And so, yeah,

Katelyn: 57:27

and it's just funny how life works because. Yes, I grew so much as a person during my pursuit of music, but since I decided to walk away from music, that is when like the magic started happening. Like my trust in the unknown is what I think has made me into the version of myself I've always wanted to be, and it's less about like what I've accomplished and more about who I've become. Like I think that that for me has become the real measure of success, is like not equating my worth or my value or my success to like what I do and actually equating it to who I am. And that has just made me a much more fulfilled person because no matter. What I try in my career, like if I try something and I fail, it doesn't matter because at the end of the day, like the person I've become is what I'm really, really like. That's the real flex is who I've become and the person that I am. And nobody can take that away from me. And I think that that is like, what I've really recognized is that like I'm not defined by my career or that's, that doesn't have to be my identity. You know? Like when people ask me like, Hey, like what do you do for work? Or like, hi, what's your name? Like, who are you? You know, like that's kind of the first question people normally ask, like, what do you do? And I've stopped saying like, oh, this is how I make money. Do you know what I mean? Because how I make money has like nothing to do with who I am as a human. And I think having that separation and being like, oh, like who I am is more of what I'd like to share with you, and what I'm excited about in life is what I wanna share with you. Our jobs, how we make money, it's, that's not always what really defines us, you know?

Nik: 59:19

Yeah. And I think what's so cool for all the artists that are listening, if you're listening to this podcast, like you are probably a courageous person because you have chosen to answer the calling of your hero's journey of being an artist, right? And that's the cool thing about like, okay, who do you become in the process, right? Being courageous, being hardworking, being disciplined, being creative, ideally, being really fucking authentic as an artist. Fuck what everybody else is doing. Like, it's about being yourself, trusting yourself, expressing yourself, have, you know, being, being real, being raw, like just being you. And so like the, container or the modality, the vehicle of. Building an artist project will help you develop that skillset, will help you develop those qualities and those characteristics. So then you just become like, I'm a courageous, expressive, authentic, hardworking, disciplined person. Guess what? You can take that anywhere. Now you can take that anywhere. If the artist's journey isn't the ultimate destination, simply a chapter and an opportunity for you to become that person, and then you can bring that into the next thing. And you're, you're, you kind of are invincible in that way, you know? Like, no, nobody can ever take that away from you. So yeah. Who are you becoming in the process? But the thing is, a lot of artists are also, it's like, well, I am, I'm not really becoming much if I'm just like copying the format, recreating the formula, pursuing my own egotistical goals of success and vanity. It's like, well, who are you becoming in that journey? To me, that's not, that's not what it's about. You know what I mean? Like, go be a real fucking artist. Pursue your own path. Carve out your own lane. And who you become in that process is going to be undeniably different than if you're just chasing the trends and following the, the, the formula in the format. That's not the hero's journey. That's taking the fucking simple road that's already been paved out. It's already been laid out. You might as well go be a fucking lawyer or a doctor, right? Because it's just like you're just following the formula. Right? And I'll, I'll, I'll plant my flag on this statement to end the fucking Headliner Mindset podcast journey. That being an artist is about being unique, being yourself, finding yourself, having the courage to be real and raw. And do you, because nobody can do you better than you. That's what it's about, right? Whether that's being a dj, or any other form of creativity. When you pursue that. You are going to become an, an undeniable type of person that when you walk into the room, people fucking feel you because this person is walking a path that is so rare that most people don't have the courage to really, really walk in, you know? So like, find out what that is for you. Um, that's what it's all about.

Katelyn: 1:02:10

Yeah. I think just one more thing to kinda add to that is if you can trust in yourself and continue on when it looks like you're just treading water, I think that's one of the most powerful tools you can bring into anything that you'll do for the rest of your life. Because we've all been there, we've all been in this place of like music or whatever it is that we're pursuing as creators where we don't know if it's gonna work. And there's a long time between it starting. And you showing up for it every single day and it actually working. And to continue to have the discipline and to believe in yourself when nobody else does and when it looks like it's not working to me, was the biggest thing I took away from Freddy and from music and from that entire journey. Because now as long as I believe in myself, I don't fucking care what anyone else thinks. You know? Like people are always gonna have their judgements. I'm constantly pivoting and going in new directions, and there are a lot of people that have sat in my corner and have been like, you change your mind too much, you pivot too much, like blah, blah, blah. And they saw that as like flaky or unstable. And instead I've just doubled down on that and doubled down on myself and trusted in myself because that distance between where you are and where you wanna be, the only person that can stop you is yourself and your doubts and your fears. And if you keep going and you keep trekking forward, like. I just think that's the greatest skill you can have is trust and believe in yourself when, when it doesn't look like it's working.

Nik: 1:03:44

Yeah. Amen. Amen. You can have a lot of those moments, that's for sure.

Katelyn: 1:03:48

Yeah.

Nik: 1:03:48

Yeah.

Katelyn: 1:03:49

That is life in a nutshell.

Nik: 1:03:51

Hell yeah. Well, I wanna just wrap this up by once again, really just thanking all of you, like especially for anyone that ever sent a dm.'cause talk about like just. You know, doubting it, but continuing to trust yourself. Like there were so many times where I'm just like, man, this is a lot of work. This is hard. And then I don't know if I wanna do this anymore. Or just, you know, whatever. Maybe self-doubt ideas might creep in. And then it's like, there's always someone that would just send a dm, be like, yo, dude, like love the podcast. Thank you so much for what you're doing. Keep going brother. And it's just like. Those little words of encouragement, that little acknowledgement, we all need that. So thank you to everybody that has ever sent anything my way, any sort of really, it's, it's, it's love, it's words of affirmation. It's a love language. Right? Thank you for all the, all the words of affirmation. You know, please continue to do that with each other, right? We're community like support the homies, encourage each other to, keep going. Have these deep talks with each other too. There's so much just kind of surface layer, you know?

Katelyn: 1:04:53

Yeah. You don't need us

Nik: 1:04:54

image stuff. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Exactly. Have these conversations with each other. Um, I just, I just, honestly, all of this came from a place of love. I genuinely love each and every one of you. Every single person out there that's been listening, I genuinely do. I genuinely wish you all the best on your journeys. And, um, you know, I, I hope that this has been helpful. Please go back and listen to all the other episodes. I'm gonna pay the$5 a month on Buzz Sprout, on my, on my distributor to keep them up so y'all can keep enjoying them. But just, yeah, from the bottom of my heart, I'm, I'm so grateful. And Caitlin, thank you so much for, you know, being such a big part of not only the podcast, but just my life and my journey. And I'm sure they will continue to be parallel for many more years to come and, uh, yeah, we'll see what's next. Who knows?

Katelyn: 1:05:45

Well, thank you again from not only a guest, your friend, a listener. You definitely have been somebody in my life that has reminded me who the fuck I am when I forgot. And I feel like there are probably so many people listening that little things that you've said or conversations you have have brought them back to themselves. Ugh, it's making me emotional. Um, I just think you've done something really, really beautiful here and I'm really, really grateful that you were born and that you created this space. And I am really excited to see where life takes you next and, to see all the continued impact you, you have.

Nik: 1:06:28

Mm. Well, thank you so much. Love you all, and. What do I, what do I say now? Yeah.

Katelyn: 1:06:38

I dunno. Bye bye. Like,

Nik: 1:06:40

bye, I guess. Bye. See you later. Love you guys. Yeah. Okay. Farewell.